shining a flashlight through the thinnest bowls

On 2015-01-01 17:30:59 +0000, Electric Comet said:

> I watched an interesting video (don't have the link) on a japanese turner
> that shined a flashlight through the bowl sides. In some places the end
> grain was gone. He had techniques and tools that I've never seen and
> he sat down with the lathe, also on the floor. The tool met the bowl
> surface at least 6 inches from tool rest and at least 3 inches below.
> The tools look handcrafted, possibly made by the turner.
>
> The are used as the base for those amazing lacquer bowls.
>
> They strive for lightness and then add lacquer base coats and then
> lacquer final coats. And polish with a fine dry compound with bare
> hands. The turner only does turning. The base coat and final coats
> are applied by experts in that and the polishing is also done by
> separate experts. The polishers have to keep their hands soft and
> smooth.
>
> These are very high end lacquer bowls. The bowls are desgined to be
> easily held one-handed for eating/drinking. Perfect for a noodle
> dish.

Japanese traditional wood turners use hook tools, which for bowl work
is below center. However the bevel is still rubbing. If you check
traditonal European turners like Robin Wood, you will see very similar
tool positions.

Using a light to get consistent "thickness" in thin bowls is fairly
standard (not that I can do it, but still)

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:31:02 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 12:14:25 -0600
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> Look at this link for one of the systems.
>
>That only tells you where the tool is inside the work. I don't see
>anything that measures thickness. The laser dot is visible on the
>outside of the bowl and matches the location of the tool on the
>inside. But nothing determines thickness and it's still possible
>to go right thru the side unless you check the thickness manually
>and take the usual care.
>
>So there's no visible light to tell you how thick the sides are.
>
In a part of the video I watched he set the light about 1/4" to the
left of the tool point. When the light missed hitting the outside of
the turning that meant that the tool tip was within 1/4" of the
outside surface of the wall so the wall thickness was about 1/4"
thick.
--

Jerry O.

On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 09:30:59 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I watched an interesting video (don't have the link) on a japanese turner
>that shined a flashlight through the bowl sides. In some places the end
>grain was gone. He had techniques and tools that I've never seen and
>he sat down with the lathe, also on the floor. The tool met the bowl
>surface at least 6 inches from tool rest and at least 3 inches below.
>The tools look handcrafted, possibly made by the turner.
>
>The are used as the base for those amazing lacquer bowls.
>
>They strive for lightness and then add lacquer base coats and then
>lacquer final coats. And polish with a fine dry compound with bare
>hands. The turner only does turning. The base coat and final coats
>are applied by experts in that and the polishing is also done by
>separate experts. The polishers have to keep their hands soft and
>smooth.
>
>These are very high end lacquer bowls. The bowls are desgined to be
>easily held one-handed for eating/drinking. Perfect for a noodle
>dish.
>
>

I also have seen -a long while back- videos of a turner using a light
inside a bowl to gauge thickness. I also had a chat with a turner in
Erwin TN that used a bright light in turning these huge bowls which
were very, very thin. I picked one up and was astonished at how lite
it was.

Mostly today I see a laser on the outside being used on hollow forms.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2015 16:04:06 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 14:22:18 -0600
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> I also have seen -a long while back- videos of a turner using a light
>> inside a bowl to gauge thickness. I also had a chat with a turner in
>> Erwin TN that used a bright light in turning these huge bowls which
>> were very, very thin. I picked one up and was astonished at how lite
>> it was.
>
>I am always appreciative of the amazing properties of wood.
>
>>
>> Mostly today I see a laser on the outside being used on hollow forms.
>
>How does that work? The turner looks inside? Or is it a measuring
>device?
>


Look at this link for one of the systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXexCJrISfA

On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 16:14:45 -0800
Ralph E Lindberg <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Japanese traditional wood turners use hook tools, which for bowl work

I will have to look at it some more. The metal was dark, black I think.


> is below center. However the bevel is still rubbing. If you check
> traditonal European turners like Robin Wood, you will see very
> similar tool positions.

Interesting, seems impossible to have a catch with this approach.

>
> Using a light to get consistent "thickness" in thin bowls is fairly
> standard (not that I can do it, but still)

Maybe standard but this was thin. In some places there were missing
grains of wood and the light shone through completely.


I've never seen light used to measure the thickness. Maybe some day
I'll try it. I think the tools and the techniques were the most
interesting part. Sitting on the floor was also interesting.
I've seen that before where a turner also used his hands and feet
while turning. An african I think.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 14:22:18 -0600
[email protected] wrote:

>
> I also have seen -a long while back- videos of a turner using a light
> inside a bowl to gauge thickness. I also had a chat with a turner in
> Erwin TN that used a bright light in turning these huge bowls which
> were very, very thin. I picked one up and was astonished at how lite
> it was.

I am always appreciative of the amazing properties of wood.

>
> Mostly today I see a laser on the outside being used on hollow forms.

How does that work? The turner looks inside? Or is it a measuring
device?

On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 17:23:00 -0500
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:

> When carving turtle decks on model airplanes years and years ago, I

Darn now I have to look up what a turtle deck is.

> used to use light to make sure I lost all the weight I could and be
> uniformly thin. The thing with model airplanes is you don't want
> stress risers, so you want uniformity, or a gradual taper to thin,
> not thick then then. So using light for bowl turning seems normal to
> me, as you are carving it out to get it light.

It made sense when I saw it. The turner didn't like anyone one
watching him while doing the final turning, it's a distraction and
focus is required while turning. Making thin objects is exacting work.
One mistake and you've ruined the piece.

On 1/1/2015 12:30 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> I watched an interesting video (don't have the link) on a japanese turner
> that shined a flashlight through the bowl sides. In some places the end
> grain was gone. He had techniques and tools that I've never seen and
> he sat down with the lathe, also on the floor. The tool met the bowl
> surface at least 6 inches from tool rest and at least 3 inches below.
> The tools look handcrafted, possibly made by the turner.
>
> The are used as the base for those amazing lacquer bowls.
>
> They strive for lightness and then add lacquer base coats and then
> lacquer final coats. And polish with a fine dry compound with bare
> hands. The turner only does turning. The base coat and final coats
> are applied by experts in that and the polishing is also done by
> separate experts. The polishers have to keep their hands soft and
> smooth.
>
> These are very high end lacquer bowls. The bowls are desgined to be
> easily held one-handed for eating/drinking. Perfect for a noodle
> dish.
>
>
>
Watch this guy turn a small tree trunk.

http://postdailydose.com/210/this-takes-tree-trunk-and-turns-into-something-really-awesome

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 12:14:25 -0600
[email protected] wrote:

>
> Look at this link for one of the systems.

That only tells you where the tool is inside the work. I don't see
anything that measures thickness. The laser dot is visible on the
outside of the bowl and matches the location of the tool on the
inside. But nothing determines thickness and it's still possible
to go right thru the side unless you check the thickness manually
and take the usual care.

So there's no visible light to tell you how thick the sides are.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:52:49 -0600
Jerry Osage wrote:

> In a part of the video I watched he set the light about 1/4" to the
> left of the tool point. When the light missed hitting the outside of
> the turning that meant that the tool tip was within 1/4" of the
> outside surface of the wall so the wall thickness was about 1/4"
> thick.

Not very exact. I could do that well just by feel. And there's
no visible light shining thru so it's nothing at all like the
technique used by the turner I saw.

I wouldn't want a large attachment on my gouge. It adds complexity
and that could mean problems when there's a catch.

On 1/2/2015 8:14 PM, Meanie wrote:
> On 1/1/2015 12:30 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> I watched an interesting video (don't have the link) on a japanese turner
>> that shined a flashlight through the bowl sides. In some places the end
>> grain was gone. He had techniques and tools that I've never seen and
>> he sat down with the lathe, also on the floor. The tool met the bowl
>> surface at least 6 inches from tool rest and at least 3 inches below.
>> The tools look handcrafted, possibly made by the turner.
>>
>> The are used as the base for those amazing lacquer bowls.
>>
>> They strive for lightness and then add lacquer base coats and then
>> lacquer final coats. And polish with a fine dry compound with bare
>> hands. The turner only does turning. The base coat and final coats
>> are applied by experts in that and the polishing is also done by
>> separate experts. The polishers have to keep their hands soft and
>> smooth.
>>
>> These are very high end lacquer bowls. The bowls are desgined to be
>> easily held one-handed for eating/drinking. Perfect for a noodle
>> dish.
>>
>>
>>
> Watch this guy turn a small tree trunk.
>
> http://postdailydose.com/210/this-takes-tree-trunk-and-turns-into-something-really-awesome
>
That was interesting. Not bad at all - and it can be a 6 or 8" as well
for small lamps. Custom holders...

I spotted the one with the cowboy hat turning - my late Uncle did that
in North Carolina. I think I have 3 or maybe 4 of the hats - semi
formal to cowboy. He enjoyed helping people take care of large trees
after a storm - hauling the large wood off for turning and small for
fireplaces. There was a small group of three that all did the work
together. Each retired and fraternal brothers. Rich life with close
friends.

Martin

On 1/2/2015 12:42 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 16:14:45 -0800
> Ralph E Lindberg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Japanese traditional wood turners use hook tools, which for bowl work
>
> I will have to look at it some more. The metal was dark, black I think.
>
>
>> is below center. However the bevel is still rubbing. If you check
>> traditonal European turners like Robin Wood, you will see very
>> similar tool positions.
>
> Interesting, seems impossible to have a catch with this approach.
>
>>
>> Using a light to get consistent "thickness" in thin bowls is fairly
>> standard (not that I can do it, but still)
>
> Maybe standard but this was thin. In some places there were missing
> grains of wood and the light shone through completely.
>
>
> I've never seen light used to measure the thickness. Maybe some day
> I'll try it. I think the tools and the techniques were the most
> interesting part. Sitting on the floor was also interesting.
> I've seen that before where a turner also used his hands and feet
> while turning. An african I think.
>
>
>
When carving turtle decks on model airplanes years and years ago, I used
to use light to make sure I lost all the weight I could and be uniformly
thin. The thing with model airplanes is you don't want stress risers, so
you want uniformity, or a gradual taper to thin, not thick then then. So
using light for bowl turning seems normal to me, as you are carving it
out to get it light.

--
Jeff