Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
rec to provide same.
Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. Over
time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
sniff again, it's gone.
ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it with
the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks and
needed to replace all the pipes.
Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
everything I can.
Thanx,
Vic
--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't
On Feb 27, 9:18=A0am, "Dave in Houston" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:c8ed5481-20c7-448d-bab9-d3f577345fd4@v31g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Agriculturists themselves can be disgusting, their animals are usually
> not too bad. I drive by a very large chicken farm every so often.. and
> I tell you, when it is a little muggy and warm, and a slowbreeze comes
> across that highway..... I'm surprised that the drainage ditches
> aren't full of cars with passed-out passengers at wheel. Damn, that
> stuff hurts the throat/eyes.... Pigs can be borderline, but the
> regular fellas, like cows... no problem.. THAT is 'country' and it
> makes me want to chew on a straw and do some whittling.
>
> =A0 =A0 Best leave those sheep alone! =A0:o)))
>
> Dave in Houston
Why? Is that ba-a-a-a-ad?
Are you pulling the wool over my eyes?
*singing*
"there will never be another ewe"
And remember, when you lie down with sheep, you'll wake up with
fleece.
If you're going to 'do' a sheep, do it at the edge of a cliff, that
way they'll push back a little better.... or so I'm told.
Shear nonsense!!
I won't lambaste you with anymore bad sheep puns.
somebody please stop me....
Why do shepherds wear robes? A: The sounds of zippers make sheep
nervous.
On Mar 3, 6:02=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote innews:81180b9b-6676-440c-=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 2, 6:48=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote
> >> innews:iqroq41qng1sfh5reqh7vb2
> > [email protected]:
>
> >> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. =A0The plumber the=
n
> >> > did the (code required) leak test. =A010 psi for 15 minutes. =A0He a=
nd
> >> > his partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old
> >> > cast iron pipes. =A0They did not have to replace anything, just refi=
t
> >> > some of the connections. =A0 The net cost was $1600. =A0Neither my w=
ife
> >> > nor Ismelled anything.
> >> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
> >> > them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>
> >> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is
> >> genetically determined. =A0Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
>
> > Han,
> > Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? =A0Just curious.
>
> > J
>
> I was NOT the one posting about cast iron pipes, that was Douglas
> Johnson, so asking me about cast iron gas pipes can't get you an answer. =
=A0
> I live now in North Jersey. =A0Before lived just outside Queens on Long
> Island. =A0In both houses I think we have (had) black iron gas pipes. =A0
> Sorry to disppoint.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry for the misdirected question. Funny though - I lived in
Tennessee and Texas almost all my life before moving out here to Las
Vegas
The first 6 years of my life: Born in Parsons Hospital . . . moved to
Mineola. Went back during 9-1-1 on work assignment with Sheriff's
Dept. for the first time in over 40 years. Had to go back a couple
months later for Christmas ~ still have family up there. My dad was
a
volunteer fireman in Mineola and took a tour of the old Station house
on Jericho Turnpike. A LOT of changes after that much time. However,
the original house was still there.
J
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so much
pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
fittings..
>Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>rec to provide same.
>
>
>Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
>ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. Over
>time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
>Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
>Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
>sniff again, it's gone.
>
>ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it with
>the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
>appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks and
>needed to replace all the pipes.
>
>Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
>I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>everything I can.
>
>Thanx,
>
>Vic
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Feb 26, 11:00=A0am, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found t=
he
> > rec to provide same.
>
> > Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few we=
eks
> > ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
> > Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> > Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered=
,
> > indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn o=
ff
> > the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
> > vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of =
a
> > cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> > Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell =
it,
> > sniff again, it's gone.
>
> > ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't =A0find i=
t
> > with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
> > all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he foun=
d 5
> > leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> > Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> > holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks=
.
>
> > I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> > considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a mino=
r
> > repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> > we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> > everything I can.
>
> > Thanx,
>
> > Vic
>
> > --
> > There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those wh=
o
> > don't
>
> I'm not a plumber or a gas contractor.
>
> That being said, =A030 PSI sounds like an incredible amount of pressure
> whether or not it's to test for leaks.
>
> Isn't standard/usual pressure into the house one quarter to on half a psi=
?
>
> You're right about the economy. =A0Who knows, it might even be affecting =
gas
> contractors/plumbers who may or may not be unscrupulous in their efforts =
to
> pad/create jobs where there might not be one. =A0 I'm just saying....
>
> I would get a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th....) opinion.
>
> jc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
30 pounds actually ain't much Joe. Read my lenghty epistle here
somewhere. I would DEFINITELY get more quotes. After I moved to Las
Vegas, my mother had the same
problem. The plumbers raked this 80 year old woman over the coals to
the tune of $4500! It took me about 3 phone calls back home to
Houston and they "gladly" revised the
bill down to $1800. There was something to the effect in my
conversation about no permit, gouging, District Attorney, etc. didn't
even have to mention the NRA or anything! LOL!
Jimmy Mac
On Feb 26, 7:58=A0pm, "PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Innews:b9bc1b06-dd64-4199-b1f5-cacdfcb038b9@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com,
> Robatoy <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Charlie Groh <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron"
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> >>>> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
> >>>> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running
> >>>> so much pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
> >>>> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes
> >>>> and/or fittings..
>
> >>> Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be
> >>> repaired. 30psig is nothing.
>
> >>> Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
> >>> Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
>
> >> ...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you asked
> >> SoCalGas you may get another opinion. In most of the remodels I've
> >> been involved with the plumber will run gas lines, splice, etc.,
> >> subject to inspection via local code.
>
> >> That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains are
> >> too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out and
> >> flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the condition
> >> we're talking about...
>
> >> cg
>
> > But mercaptan smells quite different from sewer gas. At least around
> > here. And then.. there was my ex's cooking.....
>
> Robatoy, sure you're not catching a whiff of the valley?? :o)
>
> P D Q
Nope, I'm in the North End. Maybe once or twice a year, when the wind
is directly from the South do I get a hint of Detroit.
The local Chemical Valley 'scent' from 30 years ago has mostly
disappeared.
I had a similar "do I really smell gas?" problem. It came and went over
a period of three or four days, but couldn't determine source, just a
whiff now and then. As house is only a couple of years old, just
couldn't figure it was pipes, but you never know...
Then one evening, I noticed kitchen window was open. When wind was
light and barely blew in, I caught a slight whiff of gas (propane).
Outside with spray bottle ready to do the bubble test on everything
outside, and upon arriving at propane bottles, (about 6 feet from the
window), discovered that the tank selector valve (that's above the
regulator connected to the two tanks) was leaking slightly. A quick
trip to local propane supply and a new regulator/selector valve later,
all is well.
This particular valve selects which of two tanks is being used, and has
a window that shows a green bar (piston) when the pressure is high
enough. When the tank gets empty, the bar turns red as the piston
drops. Unfortunately, this crappy design tends to leak (or at least the
ones available locally do). This is the third one I've had fail in the
9 years I've lived on the island. At my old house, one failed in less
than a week, the second made it about a year, then was fine for the
remaining 6 years we lived there. At this house, the first one made it
about two years, and we're about 3 or 4 months into the second one.
There's gotta be a better design out there, but haven't had the
opportunity to find a better quality source for similar function.
If you're on bottled gas, it may be something similar for you. If
you're on a municipal gas supply (natural gas), it would be worth
checking at the gas meter... When I lived in California, I had a meter
that would periodically vent a little bit, causing a smell. The local
company tried to pass it off as normal, but after an earthquake, I
called it in as leaking and they came out and replaced it.
--Rick
Vic Baron wrote:
> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found
> the rec to provide same.
>
>
> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
> weeks ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then
> gone. Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn
> off the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the
> ground vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the
> back of a cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the
> house.
>
> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
> it, sniff again, it's gone.
>
> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
> with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
> all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found
> 5 leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
>
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c8ed5481-20c7-448d-bab9-d3f577345fd4@v31g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Agriculturists themselves can be disgusting, their animals are usually
not too bad. I drive by a very large chicken farm every so often.. and
I tell you, when it is a little muggy and warm, and a slowbreeze comes
across that highway..... I'm surprised that the drainage ditches
aren't full of cars with passed-out passengers at wheel. Damn, that
stuff hurts the throat/eyes.... Pigs can be borderline, but the
regular fellas, like cows... no problem.. THAT is 'country' and it
makes me want to chew on a straw and do some whittling.
Best leave those sheep alone! :o)))
Dave in Houston
On Feb 26, 12:57=A0pm, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
> rec to provide same.
>
> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few week=
s
> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. O=
ver
> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it=
,
> sniff again, it's gone.
>
> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't =A0find it =
with
> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all th=
e
> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks =
and
> needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> don't
I'd get another opinion. Besides, $ 2300 seems like an assload for a
simple job like that.
You sure would have been smelling lots of mercaptan if he over-
pressured with 30 psig and had 5 leaks.
On Feb 26, 3:18=A0pm, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:524e081f-2ed9-4652-b245-f08187fffa67@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found =
the
> >> rec to provide same.
>
> >> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
> >> weeks
> >> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone=
.
> >> Over
> >> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> >> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggere=
d,
> >> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn =
off
> >> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the groun=
d
> >> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of=
a
> >> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> >> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
> >> it,
> >> sniff again, it's gone.
>
> >> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't =A0find =
it
> >> with
> >> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all
> >> the
> >> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 lea=
ks
> >> and
> >> needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> >> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> >> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leak=
s.
>
> >> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also=
,
> >> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a min=
or
> >> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house bu=
t
> >> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> >> everything I can.
>
> >> Thanx,
>
> >> Vic
>
> >> --
> >> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those w=
ho
> >> don't
>
> > Hi Vic,
> > I am a plumber with 30+ years of experience. =A0You've got a minor
> > dilemma on your hands . . . do we or don't we replace. =A0If the answer
> > is no and you've got a definite leak, (the rest is self-explanatory.)
> > To begin with, let's forget about local codes. =A0The pipe you have
> > should be black steel pipe (or galvanized in some states - I know
> > Texas used to be.) =A0Anyhow, the pipe will withstand pressures
> > exceeding 150 PSI so pressure up as long as you want. =A0Be sure that
> > any gas valves going to all appliances are closed or capped off
> > because most appliances have their own regulators on them and you
> > don't want to bust the diaphragm in one of them. =A0When I did my own
> > house years ago, I put it up to 100 PSI. =A0I left if on for two days.
> > Why not? =A0The system will hold it and that little extra peace of mind
> > didn't hurt at all. =A0You can't hurt the pipes. =A0If nothing else, yo=
u
> > can hear a whistling at any leak and the soap test would be easier to
> > detect. =A0You can look it up on an ASME site somewhere, but I believe
> > that Sch. 40 blck steel pipe has a burst test rating of around 250
> > psi. so don't get nervous about shrapnel flying through your house.
> > The majority of leaks in a gas system are usually found in the screwed
> > joints. =A0This is where the old pipe dope from "yesteryear" begins to
> > dry out and crack. =A0I would be willing to bet that's your problem.
> > Replacing all the piping is a task in itself. =A0If you have concealed
> > piping in the attic, crawl space, or in the walls, it ain't easy.
> > I've done a bunch of them over the years. =A0If you can locate the
> > leaking fittings, you can remove that section of pipe, replace the
> > fitting, and re-thread the pipe and add a nipple and a union. =A0Unions
> > are not allowed inside concealed walls or any other place that could
> > enclose or trap the gas. =A0In either case, I'd look for another quote
> > to replace the piping. =A0The long and short of it all: =A0Pressuring t=
he
> > system higher won't hurt it. =A0Do whatever it takes to keep you and
> > your family safe.
>
> > On another note, I noticed that someone mentioned testing water lines
> > as well. =A0If they're copper or PVC, they'll withstand at least 150 #
> > of pressure as well. =A0Keep in mind that that kind of pressure would
> > probably ruin your faucets, ballcock valves in your toilets not to
> > mention the solenoid valve in your washer/dishwasher, but also the
> > pressure relief =A0valve on your water heater. =A0The normal testing
> > pressure for local codes is usually 1-1/2 times the normal operating
> > pressure. =A0Here in Las Vegas, the incoming pressure at the house entr=
y
> > ranges from 40-55 lbs. =A0In Tennessee where I first got my Master's
> > License, the street pressure entering the house in Knoxville was in
> > excess of 180#. =A0Every house has a pressure reducing valve and in som=
e
> > cases, an expansion tank. =A0(sorry - got carried away.)
>
> > One thing to remember is that natural gas smell like rotten eggs - a
> > very distinctive odor. =A0Sewer gas is what you smell outside the back
> > of a smelly restaurant that doesn't maintain their grease trap!
> > LOL!
>
> > Hope this helps. =A0Now I gotta get ready for tonight and tomorrow. =A0=
My
> > band is performing for opening day at NASCAR tomorrow.
>
> > Jimmy Mac
> >www.brazosriverband.com
>
> JM - first - cool website - I'm a big country fan - always have it stream=
ing
> on my computer when I'm at work.
>
> Appreciate your insight. I worked around mercaptans for years, used to us=
e
> them to odorize toxic chemicals used in rocket fuels. Always nice to work
> with something that is lethal at 10ppm but you can't smell it until 20ppm=
.
>
> This odor is "on the fence" - this leak, if it is a bonafide leak - is so
> small that after the first sniff of recognition all I'm left with is the
> dank smell of musty clothes etc. Possible I have a little of both.
>
> Have the name of a local plumber who comes recommended by a friend.
> Hopefully I can get him to check it out.
>
> Thanx
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the Kudos on the website. We're playing this weekend and
tomorrow at NASCAR. All the band members are totally stoked!
As far as the gas is concerned, the biggest problem with natural gas
is allowing it to get trapped (i.e.: a wall cavity, attic, etc.)
The second biggest problem is ignition! Natural gas has a very
distinct odor and since you've worked with mercaptans in the past,
you know how delightful the fragrant aroma that it emits. There has
been a lot of talk about sewer gas and when encapsulated it
too can be a powerful explosive as well. With the venting systems
designed in modern plumbing, it's likely it won't explode. It can
make
a billy goat puke though. I used to laugh when people would tell me
that they thought the trap under the sink was to catch knives and
wedding rings. It's used to trap sewer gases from entering the
building. (Toilets have one built in.) They can and do evaporate
when not used and
Jack Novak was right on target that especially in the cold weather the
sewer gas is more noticeable because the air is heavier when it's
cold.
Gas (like water) will travel the least amount of resistance. Unlike
water, the gas can rise against gravity. These things are hard to
find at times. If
it were me, I'd cap off all the appliance outlets, pump it up to 60-70
psi and check it out. If you're sure its mercaptans, do it. If not
and it's cool in your neck
of the woods, you may have sewer gas descending from outside the house
from the vent pipes. It will really have to be cold for this to
happen (below 40=B0 or so.)
Either way, there was a lot of good info from this.
Jimmy Mac (leaving and heading for the Casino to play tonight.)
www.brazosriverband.com
On Feb 26, 4:45=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> mac davis wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> w=
rote:
>
> > I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> > Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
> 50psi is not all that high for waterlines in the house.
>
Not at all. Mine, on a good day sits around 65 psi.
On Feb 26, 9:57=A0am, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
> rec to provide same.
>
> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few week=
s
> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. O=
ver
> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it=
,
> sniff again, it's gone.
>
> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't =A0find it =
with
> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all th=
e
> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks =
and
> needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> don't
Hi Vic,
I am a plumber with 30+ years of experience. You've got a minor
dilemma on your hands . . . do we or don't we replace. If the answer
is no and you've got a definite leak, (the rest is self-explanatory.)
To begin with, let's forget about local codes. The pipe you have
should be black steel pipe (or galvanized in some states - I know
Texas used to be.) Anyhow, the pipe will withstand pressures
exceeding 150 PSI so pressure up as long as you want. Be sure that
any gas valves going to all appliances are closed or capped off
because most appliances have their own regulators on them and you
don't want to bust the diaphragm in one of them. When I did my own
house years ago, I put it up to 100 PSI. I left if on for two days.
Why not? The system will hold it and that little extra peace of mind
didn't hurt at all. You can't hurt the pipes. If nothing else, you
can hear a whistling at any leak and the soap test would be easier to
detect. You can look it up on an ASME site somewhere, but I believe
that Sch. 40 blck steel pipe has a burst test rating of around 250
psi. so don't get nervous about shrapnel flying through your house.
The majority of leaks in a gas system are usually found in the screwed
joints. This is where the old pipe dope from "yesteryear" begins to
dry out and crack. I would be willing to bet that's your problem.
Replacing all the piping is a task in itself. If you have concealed
piping in the attic, crawl space, or in the walls, it ain't easy.
I've done a bunch of them over the years. If you can locate the
leaking fittings, you can remove that section of pipe, replace the
fitting, and re-thread the pipe and add a nipple and a union. Unions
are not allowed inside concealed walls or any other place that could
enclose or trap the gas. In either case, I'd look for another quote
to replace the piping. The long and short of it all: Pressuring the
system higher won't hurt it. Do whatever it takes to keep you and
your family safe.
On another note, I noticed that someone mentioned testing water lines
as well. If they're copper or PVC, they'll withstand at least 150 #
of pressure as well. Keep in mind that that kind of pressure would
probably ruin your faucets, ballcock valves in your toilets not to
mention the solenoid valve in your washer/dishwasher, but also the
pressure relief valve on your water heater. The normal testing
pressure for local codes is usually 1-1/2 times the normal operating
pressure. Here in Las Vegas, the incoming pressure at the house entry
ranges from 40-55 lbs. In Tennessee where I first got my Master's
License, the street pressure entering the house in Knoxville was in
excess of 180#. Every house has a pressure reducing valve and in some
cases, an expansion tank. (sorry - got carried away.)
One thing to remember is that natural gas smell like rotten eggs - a
very distinctive odor. Sewer gas is what you smell outside the back
of a smelly restaurant that doesn't maintain their grease trap!
LOL!
Hope this helps. Now I gotta get ready for tonight and tomorrow. My
band is performing for opening day at NASCAR tomorrow.
Jimmy Mac
www.brazosriverband.com
"Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:524e081f-2ed9-4652-b245-f08187fffa67@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
The normal testing
pressure for local codes is usually 1-1/2 times the normal operating
pressure. Here in Las Vegas, the incoming pressure at the house entry
ranges from 40-55 lbs. In Tennessee where I first got my Master's
License, the street pressure entering the house in Knoxville was in
excess of 180#. Every house has a pressure reducing valve and in some
cases, an expansion tank. (sorry - got carried away.)
========
Wow. Those are staggering numbers. 400+ feet of head. Seems to me you should
be able to run a turbine and power your house (or neighborhood) with that.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:29:26 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Charlie Groh <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
>> >> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>>
>> >> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so much
>> >> pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
>> >> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
>> >> fittings..
>>
>> >Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
>> >30psig is nothing.
>>
>> >Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
>> >Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
>>
>> ...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you asked
>> SoCalGas you may get another opinion. In most of the remodels I've
>> been involved with the plumber will run gas lines, splice, etc.,
>> subject to inspection via local code.
>>
>> That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains are
>> too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out and
>> flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the condition
>> we're talking about...
>>
>> cg
>
>But mercaptan smells quite different from sewer gas. At least around
>here. And then.. there was my ex's cooking.....
...correctamundo, true...
cg
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
> rec to provide same.
>
>
> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
> Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
> sniff again, it's gone.
>
> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
> with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
> all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5
> leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> don't
I'm not a plumber or a gas contractor.
That being said, 30 PSI sounds like an incredible amount of pressure
whether or not it's to test for leaks.
Isn't standard/usual pressure into the house one quarter to on half a psi?
You're right about the economy. Who knows, it might even be affecting gas
contractors/plumbers who may or may not be unscrupulous in their efforts to
pad/create jobs where there might not be one. I'm just saying....
I would get a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th....) opinion.
jc
On Mar 2, 6:48=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote innews:iqroq41qng1sfh5reqh7vb2=
[email protected]:
>
> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. =A0The plumber then
> > did the (code required) leak test. =A010 psi for 15 minutes. =A0He and =
his
> > partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old cast
> > iron pipes. =A0They did not have to replace anything, just refit some o=
f
> > the connections. =A0 The net cost was $1600. =A0Neither my wife nor I
> > smelled anything.
>
> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
> > them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>
> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is genetically
> determined. =A0Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid
Han,
Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? Just curious.
J
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:24:36 -0800 (PST), Jimmy Mac
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 3:18 pm, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:524e081f-2ed9-4652-b245-f08187fffa67@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>> >> rec to provide same.
>>
>> >> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
>> >> weeks
>> >> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
>> >> Over
>> >> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>> >> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>> >> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>> >> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>> >> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>> >> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>>
>> >> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
>> >> it,
>> >> sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>> >> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>> >> with
>> >> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all
>> >> the
>> >> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks
>> >> and
>> >> needed to replace all the pipes.
>>
>> >> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>> >> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>>
>> >> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> >> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> >> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> >> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> >> everything I can.
>>
>> >> Thanx,
>>
>> >> Vic
>>
>> >> --
>> >> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
>> >> don't
>>
>> > Hi Vic,
>> > I am a plumber with 30+ years of experience. You've got a minor
>> > dilemma on your hands . . . do we or don't we replace. If the answer
>> > is no and you've got a definite leak, (the rest is self-explanatory.)
>> > To begin with, let's forget about local codes. The pipe you have
>> > should be black steel pipe (or galvanized in some states - I know
>> > Texas used to be.) Anyhow, the pipe will withstand pressures
>> > exceeding 150 PSI so pressure up as long as you want. Be sure that
>> > any gas valves going to all appliances are closed or capped off
>> > because most appliances have their own regulators on them and you
>> > don't want to bust the diaphragm in one of them. When I did my own
>> > house years ago, I put it up to 100 PSI. I left if on for two days.
>> > Why not? The system will hold it and that little extra peace of mind
>> > didn't hurt at all. You can't hurt the pipes. If nothing else, you
>> > can hear a whistling at any leak and the soap test would be easier to
>> > detect. You can look it up on an ASME site somewhere, but I believe
>> > that Sch. 40 blck steel pipe has a burst test rating of around 250
>> > psi. so don't get nervous about shrapnel flying through your house.
>> > The majority of leaks in a gas system are usually found in the screwed
>> > joints. This is where the old pipe dope from "yesteryear" begins to
>> > dry out and crack. I would be willing to bet that's your problem.
>> > Replacing all the piping is a task in itself. If you have concealed
>> > piping in the attic, crawl space, or in the walls, it ain't easy.
>> > I've done a bunch of them over the years. If you can locate the
>> > leaking fittings, you can remove that section of pipe, replace the
>> > fitting, and re-thread the pipe and add a nipple and a union. Unions
>> > are not allowed inside concealed walls or any other place that could
>> > enclose or trap the gas. In either case, I'd look for another quote
>> > to replace the piping. The long and short of it all: Pressuring the
>> > system higher won't hurt it. Do whatever it takes to keep you and
>> > your family safe.
>>
>> > On another note, I noticed that someone mentioned testing water lines
>> > as well. If they're copper or PVC, they'll withstand at least 150 #
>> > of pressure as well. Keep in mind that that kind of pressure would
>> > probably ruin your faucets, ballcock valves in your toilets not to
>> > mention the solenoid valve in your washer/dishwasher, but also the
>> > pressure relief valve on your water heater. The normal testing
>> > pressure for local codes is usually 1-1/2 times the normal operating
>> > pressure. Here in Las Vegas, the incoming pressure at the house entry
>> > ranges from 40-55 lbs. In Tennessee where I first got my Master's
>> > License, the street pressure entering the house in Knoxville was in
>> > excess of 180#. Every house has a pressure reducing valve and in some
>> > cases, an expansion tank. (sorry - got carried away.)
>>
>> > One thing to remember is that natural gas smell like rotten eggs - a
>> > very distinctive odor. Sewer gas is what you smell outside the back
>> > of a smelly restaurant that doesn't maintain their grease trap!
>> > LOL!
>>
>> > Hope this helps. Now I gotta get ready for tonight and tomorrow. My
>> > band is performing for opening day at NASCAR tomorrow.
>>
>> > Jimmy Mac
>> >www.brazosriverband.com
>>
>> JM - first - cool website - I'm a big country fan - always have it streaming
>> on my computer when I'm at work.
>>
>> Appreciate your insight. I worked around mercaptans for years, used to use
>> them to odorize toxic chemicals used in rocket fuels. Always nice to work
>> with something that is lethal at 10ppm but you can't smell it until 20ppm.
>>
>> This odor is "on the fence" - this leak, if it is a bonafide leak - is so
>> small that after the first sniff of recognition all I'm left with is the
>> dank smell of musty clothes etc. Possible I have a little of both.
>>
>> Have the name of a local plumber who comes recommended by a friend.
>> Hopefully I can get him to check it out.
>>
>> Thanx
>>
>>
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Thanks for the Kudos on the website. We're playing this weekend and
>tomorrow at NASCAR. All the band members are totally stoked!
>
>As far as the gas is concerned, the biggest problem with natural gas
>is allowing it to get trapped (i.e.: a wall cavity, attic, etc.)
>The second biggest problem is ignition! Natural gas has a very
>distinct odor and since you've worked with mercaptans in the past,
>you know how delightful the fragrant aroma that it emits. There has
>been a lot of talk about sewer gas and when encapsulated it
>too can be a powerful explosive as well. With the venting systems
>designed in modern plumbing, it's likely it won't explode. It can
>make
>a billy goat puke though. I used to laugh when people would tell me
>that they thought the trap under the sink was to catch knives and
>wedding rings. It's used to trap sewer gases from entering the
>building. (Toilets have one built in.) They can and do evaporate
>when not used and
>Jack Novak was right on target that especially in the cold weather the
>sewer gas is more noticeable because the air is heavier when it's
>cold.
>Gas (like water) will travel the least amount of resistance. Unlike
>water, the gas can rise against gravity. These things are hard to
>find at times. If
>it were me, I'd cap off all the appliance outlets, pump it up to 60-70
>psi and check it out. If you're sure its mercaptans, do it. If not
>and it's cool in your neck
>of the woods, you may have sewer gas descending from outside the house
>from the vent pipes. It will really have to be cold for this to
>happen (below 40° or so.)
>Either way, there was a lot of good info from this.
>
>Jimmy Mac (leaving and heading for the Casino to play tonight.)
>www.brazosriverband.com
>
...dude, you're a bundle of good info! Wish I could see you guys
play...you got any Mp3 action?
cg
"Vic Baron" wrote
> JIC anyone thinks I'm playing Russian roulette here, the absolute worse
> smell was an instant whiff and then nothing. Not even as much as you get
> when you turn on a stove and the pilot takes a second or two longer before
> ignition. I guarantee that if I *smelled* gas, I'd call gasco asap.
Know the feeling. I called the gas company out last year for a similar
incident. They brought "the sniffer" and could find nothing, even though the
next door neighbor's wife and I could both stand in that one particular spot
and get a big whiff of "gas". During the week I'm staying at a friends
house in Austin, TX while I build in the vicinity. This older, remodeled
house has a small, but detectable gas leak, I guarantee it ... but I seem to
be the only one who can smell it.
As Mom was wont to say, maybe it's coming up our collars? :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2fff1575-726d-4a7a-8195-b0e7a9e72597@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 11:00 am, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found
> > the
> > rec to provide same.
>
> > Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
> > weeks
> > ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
> > Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> > Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> > indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn
> > off
> > the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
> > vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
> > cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> > Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
> > it,
> > sniff again, it's gone.
>
> > ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
> > with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
> > all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found
> > 5
> > leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> > Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> > holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> > I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> > considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> > repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> > we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> > everything I can.
>
> > Thanx,
>
> > Vic
>
> > --
> > There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> > don't
>
> I'm not a plumber or a gas contractor.
>
> That being said, 30 PSI sounds like an incredible amount of pressure
> whether or not it's to test for leaks.
>
> Isn't standard/usual pressure into the house one quarter to on half a psi?
>
> You're right about the economy. Who knows, it might even be affecting gas
> contractors/plumbers who may or may not be unscrupulous in their efforts
> to
> pad/create jobs where there might not be one. I'm just saying....
>
> I would get a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th....) opinion.
>
> jc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
30 pounds actually ain't much Joe. Read my lenghty epistle here
somewhere. I would DEFINITELY get more quotes. After I moved to Las
Vegas, my mother had the same
problem. The plumbers raked this 80 year old woman over the coals to
the tune of $4500! It took me about 3 phone calls back home to
Houston and they "gladly" revised the
bill down to $1800. There was something to the effect in my
conversation about no permit, gouging, District Attorney, etc. didn't
even have to mention the NRA or anything! LOL!
Jimmy Mac
Enjoyed reading that. thanks for the edumacation!
jc
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Vic
> Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>>rec to provide same.
>>
>>
>>Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
>>ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
>>Over
>>time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>>Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>>indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>>the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>>vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>>cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> Leak in the drain, or a dry trap?
>>
>>Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
>>sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>>ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>>with
>>the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
>>appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks
>>and
>>needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Sounds fishy to me -- if soapy water didn't disclose any leaks under
> normal
> gas pressure, it's unlikely to be leaking enough for you to smell it...
>
> Sounds to me more like you have a dry trap somewhere. Pour a bucket of
> water
> down every drain in the house, and see if that takes care of the problem.
I have to give this a try. I live alone in a small house with two baths.
Needless to say, I only use one. Probably should alternate to keep the water
flowing but it slips my mind. Now that I think of it, I haven t run water in
that bathroom for at least 6 months with exception of the commode. Worth a
look.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Feb 27, 9:18 am, "Dave in Houston" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Best leave those sheep alone! :o)))
>
> Dave in Houston
Why? Is that ba-a-a-a-ad?
Are you pulling the wool over my eyes?
*singing*
"there will never be another ewe"
And remember, when you lie down with sheep, you'll wake up with
fleece.
If you're going to 'do' a sheep, do it at the edge of a cliff, that
way they'll push back a little better.... or so I'm told.
Shear nonsense!!
I won't lambaste you with anymore bad sheep puns.
somebody please stop me....
Why do shepherds wear robes? A: The sounds of zippers make sheep
nervous.
And . . .
How can you tell when Robatoy is driving through the countryside?
The livestock are backed up to the fence. [ RIMSHOT! ]
:o) Dave in Houston
Dave in Houston wrote:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c8ed5481-20c7-448d-bab9-d3f577345fd4@v31g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Agriculturists themselves can be disgusting, their animals are usually
> not too bad. I drive by a very large chicken farm every so often.. and
> I tell you, when it is a little muggy and warm, and a slowbreeze comes
> across that highway..... I'm surprised that the drainage ditches
> aren't full of cars with passed-out passengers at wheel.
When I was growing up, there was a company that decided to build a plant
to process chicken manure into animal feed. They built about 5 miles from
where we lived. When that plant was in operation, if the breeze was from
the right direction, the odor from that plant made driving by a run of the
mill chicken factory seem like a walk through a field of daisies. It was
so bad that they were finally shut down. One of Colorado's most
conservative state representatives flew over the plant to check it out and
claimed he got sick in his plane from the odor.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
<snip>
At work there are a bunch of unused sinks in our labs that do dry up and
leak stinky gas. That stink is indeed rather different from the smell of
the gas odorant. However, if you don't smell them next to each other so to
speak, and they are very weak, they may seem to be somewhat alike. If it
is a sniff every once in a while I wouldn't really bother with it
(especially if the house is not too well air tightened).
On the other hand, whenever I am in Somerville Mass just west of the car
wash at 662 Somerville Avenue, walking along the tracks, I can clearly
smell natural gas. So if you hear about a car wash (or the Starbucks
across the road) going skywards, I have warned you <grin>.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"David G. Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Han wrote:
>> <snip>
>> At work there are a bunch of unused sinks in our labs that do dry up
>> and leak stinky gas. That stink is indeed rather different from the
>> smell of the gas odorant. However, if you don't smell them next to
>> each other so to speak, and they are very weak, they may seem to be
>> somewhat alike. If it is a sniff every once in a while I wouldn't
>> really bother with it (especially if the house is not too well air
>> tightened).
>>
>> On the other hand, whenever I am in Somerville Mass just west of the
>> car wash at 662 Somerville Avenue, walking along the tracks, I can
>> clearly smell natural gas. So if you hear about a car wash (or the
>> Starbucks across the road) going skywards, I have warned you <grin>.
>>
>
> Loose natural gas is nothing to laugh at. In Pontoon Lake, IL (near
> St. Louis, MO) last week a house exploded due to build up of natural
> gas. The explosion converted a fairly large wooden house into an
> extremely large pile of tooth picks. It also damaged 5 surrounding
> homes.
>
> However on a real humorious note I once worked with a guy who used to
> work for a gas company in NE Indiana. One day someone dumped a couple
> of gallons of mercaptain. They got phone calls all day.
>
> Dave
>
About 4 miles from where I grew up was one of the first factories making
rayon fiber. I believe from wood pulp (see also
<http://www.fibersource.com/F-TUTOR/rayon.htm>). Apparently during the
process mercaptans are produced, since even at this distance the smell
could almost be sickening. But then, the agriculturists around could
make smells too ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber then
> did the (code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes. He and his
> partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old cast
> iron pipes. They did not have to replace anything, just refit some of
> the connections. The net cost was $1600. Neither my wife nor I
> smelled anything.
>
> So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
> them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>
I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is genetically
determined. Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote in
news:81180b9b-6676-440c-8413-7ae5a9e7520c@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> On Mar 2, 6:48 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote
>> innews:iqroq41qng1sfh5reqh7vb2
> [email protected]:
>>
>> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber then
>> > did the (code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes. He and
>> > his partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old
>> > cast iron pipes. They did not have to replace anything, just refit
>> > some of the connections. The net cost was $1600. Neither my wife
>> > nor Ismelled anything.
>> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
>> > them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>>
>> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is
>> genetically determined. Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
>
> Han,
> Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? Just curious.
>
> J
I was NOT the one posting about cast iron pipes, that was Douglas
Johnson, so asking me about cast iron gas pipes can't get you an answer.
I live now in North Jersey. Before lived just outside Queens on Long
Island. In both houses I think we have (had) black iron gas pipes.
Sorry to disppoint.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 2, 6:48 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote
>>> innews:[email protected]:
>>>
>>> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber
>>> > then did the (code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes.
>>> > He and his partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the
>>> > 60 year old cast iron pipes. They did not have to replace
>>> > anything, just refit some of the connections. The net cost was
>>> > $1600. Neither my wife nor I smelled anything.
>>>
>>> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
>>> > them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>>>
>>> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is
>>> genetically determined. Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards
>>> Han
>>> email address is invalid
>>
>>Han,
>>Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? Just curious.
>>
>>J
>
> That was me and it was a brain fart. I meant black iron.
> -- Doug
>
That does seem more logical, Doug. No problem for me, and I believe not
for Jimmy Mac either.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Mar 3, 6:02 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote
>> innews:81180b9b-6676-440c-
> [email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 2, 6:48 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote
>> >> innews:iqroq41qng1sfh5reqh7vb2
>> > [email protected]:
>>
>> >> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber
>> >> > the
> n
>> >> > did the (code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes. He a
> nd
>> >> > his partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year
>> >> > old cast iron pipes. They did not have to replace anything,
>> >> > just refi
> t
>> >> > some of the connections. The net cost was $1600. Neither my w
> ife
>> >> > nor Ismelled anything.
>> >> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to
>> >> > get them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>>
>> >> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is
>> >> genetically determined. Some people can smell it/them, some
>> >> can't.
>>
>> > Han,
>> > Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? Just
>> > curious.
>>
>> > J
>>
>> I was NOT the one posting about cast iron pipes, that was Douglas
>> Johnson, so asking me about cast iron gas pipes can't get you an
>> answer.
>
>> I live now in North Jersey. Before lived just outside Queens on Long
>> Island. In both houses I think we have (had) black iron gas pipes.
>> Sorry to disppoint.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards
>> Han
>> email address is invalid- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Sorry for the misdirected question. Funny though - I lived in
> Tennessee and Texas almost all my life before moving out here to Las
> Vegas
> The first 6 years of my life: Born in Parsons Hospital . . . moved to
> Mineola. Went back during 9-1-1 on work assignment with Sheriff's
> Dept. for the first time in over 40 years. Had to go back a couple
> months later for Christmas ~ still have family up there. My dad was
> a
> volunteer fireman in Mineola and took a tour of the old Station house
> on Jericho Turnpike. A LOT of changes after that much time. However,
> the original house was still there.
>
> J
I ived in Floral Park, near Belmont Racetrack, almost right under the
flight path to Kennedy. Oh could those little Concorde planes rattle the
windows!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
In article <[email protected]>, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>rec to provide same.
>
>
>Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
>ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. Over
>time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
>Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
Leak in the drain, or a dry trap?
>
>Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
>sniff again, it's gone.
>
>ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it with
>the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
>appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks and
>needed to replace all the pipes.
Sounds fishy to me -- if soapy water didn't disclose any leaks under normal
gas pressure, it's unlikely to be leaking enough for you to smell it...
Sounds to me more like you have a dry trap somewhere. Pour a bucket of water
down every drain in the house, and see if that takes care of the problem.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>rec to provide same.
>
>
>Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
>ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone. Over
>time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
>Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
>Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell it,
>sniff again, it's gone.
>
>ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it with
>the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
>appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks and
>needed to replace all the pipes.
>
>Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
>I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>everything I can.
>
>Thanx,
>
>Vic
Doesn't sound right, maybe a ripoff. Get another two or three
opinions/quotes. This can be a DIY job, not all that difficult,
depending on how much is inside the walls and # of connections. Check
for leaks again after 1 day.
On Feb 26, 4:03=A0pm, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:2fff1575-726d-4a7a-8195-b0e7a9e72597@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 11:00 am, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found
> > > the
> > > rec to provide same.
>
> > > Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
> > > weeks
> > > ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gon=
e.
> > > Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> > > Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" trigger=
ed,
> > > indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn
> > > off
> > > the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the grou=
nd
> > > vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back o=
f a
> > > cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
> > > Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smel=
l
> > > it,
> > > sniff again, it's gone.
>
> > > ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
> > > with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capp=
ed
> > > all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he fo=
und
> > > 5
> > > leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> > > Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> > > holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas lea=
ks.
>
> > > I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Als=
o,
> > > considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a mi=
nor
> > > repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house b=
ut
> > > we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> > > everything I can.
>
> > > Thanx,
>
> > > Vic
>
> > > --
> > > There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those =
who
> > > don't
>
> > I'm not a plumber or a gas contractor.
>
> > That being said, 30 PSI sounds like an incredible amount of pressure
> > whether or not it's to test for leaks.
>
> > Isn't standard/usual pressure into the house one quarter to on half a p=
si?
>
> > You're right about the economy. Who knows, it might even be affecting g=
as
> > contractors/plumbers who may or may not be unscrupulous in their effort=
s
> > to
> > pad/create jobs where there might not be one. I'm just saying....
>
> > I would get a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th....) opinion.
>
> > jc- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> 30 pounds actually ain't much Joe. =A0Read my lenghty epistle here
> somewhere. =A0I would DEFINITELY get more quotes. =A0After I moved to Las
> Vegas, my mother had the same
> problem. =A0The plumbers raked this 80 year old woman over the coals to
> the tune of $4500! =A0 It took me about 3 phone calls back home to
> Houston and they "gladly" revised the
> bill down to $1800. =A0 There was something to the effect in my
> conversation about no permit, gouging, District Attorney, etc. =A0didn't
> even have to mention the NRA or anything! =A0 LOL!
>
> Jimmy Mac
>
> Enjoyed reading that. =A0thanks for the edumacation!
>
> jc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey no problem. I learned more here on the wreck than all 9 years in
highschool! LOL!
Jimmy
On Feb 26, 2:42=A0pm, Charlie Groh <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Feb 26, 1:22=A0pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> =
wrote:
>
> >> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> >> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
> >> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so =
much
> >> pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
> >> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/o=
r
> >> fittings..
>
> >Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
> >30psig is nothing.
>
> >Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
> >Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
>
> ...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you asked
> SoCalGas you may get another opinion. =A0In most of the remodels I've
> been involved with the plumber will run gas lines, splice, etc.,
> subject to inspection via local code. =A0
>
> That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains are
> too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out and
> flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the condition
> we're talking about...
>
> cg
But mercaptan smells quite different from sewer gas. At least around
here. And then.. there was my ex's cooking.....
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>rec to provide same.
>
>Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few weeks
>ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
>Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
>Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>
I'm not a plumber either but my job requires me to often work with the
local gas companies when they are repairing leaks.
Since you mentioned the smell is most prevalent where the drain line
enters the wall there is a good possibility the leak is outside the
building. Gas will frequently follow pipes and underground utilities
especially if the ground is frozen. I've seen leaks found up to 1/4
mile away from where the leak was initially thought to be.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Feb 26, 11:03=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 1:22=A0pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:> On =
Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> > Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
> > My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so m=
uch
> > pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
> > I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
> > fittings..
>
> Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
> 30psig is nothing.
>
> Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
> Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
good point about the proper license. In Knoxville, Tennessee there
was a seperate plumbers license and
a seperate gas fitter license. In Texas, one license covered it all
(multi discipline).
Jimmy Mac
On Feb 27, 7:30=A0am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> "David G. Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote innews:cfJpl.17887$yr3=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > Han wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >> At work there are a bunch of unused sinks in our labs that do dry up
> >> and leak stinky gas. =A0That stink is indeed rather different from the
> >> smell of the gas odorant. =A0However, if you don't smell them next to
> >> each other so to speak, and they are very weak, they may seem to be
> >> somewhat alike. =A0If it is a sniff every once in a while I wouldn't
> >> really bother with it (especially if the house is not too well air
> >> tightened).
>
> >> On the other hand, whenever I am in Somerville Mass just west of the
> >> car wash at 662 Somerville Avenue, walking along the tracks, I can
> >> clearly smell natural gas. =A0So if you hear about a car wash (or the
> >> Starbucks across the road) going skywards, I have warned you <grin>.
>
> > Loose natural gas is nothing to laugh at. In Pontoon Lake, IL (near
> > St. Louis, MO) last week a house exploded due to build up of natural
> > gas. The explosion converted a fairly large wooden house into an
> > extremely large pile of tooth picks. It also damaged 5 surrounding
> > homes.
>
> > However on a real humorious note I once worked with a guy who used to
> > work for a gas company in NE Indiana. One day someone dumped a couple
> > of gallons of mercaptain. They got phone calls all day.
>
> > Dave
>
> About 4 miles from where I grew up was one of the first factories making
> rayon fiber. =A0I believe from wood pulp (see also
> <http://www.fibersource.com/F-TUTOR/rayon.htm>). =A0Apparently during the
> process mercaptans are produced, since even at this distance the smell
> could almost be sickening. =A0But then, the agriculturists around could
> make smells too ...
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid
Agriculturists themselves can be disgusting, their animals are usually
not too bad. I drive by a very large chicken farm every so often.. and
I tell you, when it is a little muggy and warm, and a slowbreeze comes
across that highway..... I'm surprised that the drainage ditches
aren't full of cars with passed-out passengers at wheel. Damn, that
stuff hurts the throat/eyes.... Pigs can be borderline, but the
regular fellas, like cows... no problem.. THAT is 'country' and it
makes me want to chew on a straw and do some whittling.
Han wrote:
> <snip>
> At work there are a bunch of unused sinks in our labs that do dry up and
> leak stinky gas. That stink is indeed rather different from the smell of
> the gas odorant. However, if you don't smell them next to each other so to
> speak, and they are very weak, they may seem to be somewhat alike. If it
> is a sniff every once in a while I wouldn't really bother with it
> (especially if the house is not too well air tightened).
>
> On the other hand, whenever I am in Somerville Mass just west of the car
> wash at 662 Somerville Avenue, walking along the tracks, I can clearly
> smell natural gas. So if you hear about a car wash (or the Starbucks
> across the road) going skywards, I have warned you <grin>.
>
Loose natural gas is nothing to laugh at. In Pontoon Lake, IL (near St.
Louis, MO) last week a house exploded due to build up of natural gas.
The explosion converted a fairly large wooden house into an extremely
large pile of tooth picks. It also damaged 5 surrounding homes.
However on a real humorious note I once worked with a guy who used to
work for a gas company in NE Indiana. One day someone dumped a couple of
gallons of mercaptain. They got phone calls all day.
Dave
On Feb 26, 1:22=A0pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wro=
te:
>
> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so muc=
h
> pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
> fittings..
>
Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
30psig is nothing.
Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
On Feb 26, 4:35=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Jimmy Mac" =A0wrote
>
> > =A0It will really have to be cold for this to
> > =A0happen (below 40=B0 or so.)
>
> LOL!!
>
> Forgive me for picking nits.
>
> But 40=B0 is hardly considered cold, =A0Even in a mild weather zone like =
I live
> in, that is not cold. =A0(Although it did snow here today.)
You and I both know that 40=B0 ain't cold Lee. The last Frosty Balls
Motorcycle run I was on was down to 31=B0 and on a bike . . . THAT'S
cold.
However, he said he lived in L.A. so 40 would be a bit on the chilly
side for the Cali folks. LOL
Jimmy
Vic Baron wrote:
> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found
> the rec to provide same.
>
>
> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
> weeks ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then
> gone. Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>
> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn
> off the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the
> ground vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the
> back of a cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the
> house.
>
> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
> it, sniff again, it's gone.
>
> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
> with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
> all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found
> 5 leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>
> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
>
Are you sure it is gas? Sometimes a dried trap in a floor drain will
intermittently stink.
MikeB
mac davis wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>
50psi is not all that high for waterlines in the house.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
In =
news:b9bc1b06-dd64-4199-b1f5-cacdfcb038b9@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com,
Robatoy <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
> On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Charlie Groh <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:=20
>>=20
>>>> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
>>>> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>>=20
>>>> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running
>>>> so much pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
>>>> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes
>>>> and/or fittings..
>>=20
>>> Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be
>>> repaired. 30psig is nothing.
>>=20
>>> Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
>>> Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
>>=20
>> ...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you asked
>> SoCalGas you may get another opinion. In most of the remodels I've
>> been involved with the plumber will run gas lines, splice, etc.,
>> subject to inspection via local code.
>>=20
>> That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains are
>> too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out and
>> flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the condition
>> we're talking about...
>>=20
>> cg
>=20
> But mercaptan smells quite different from sewer gas. At least around
> here. And then.. there was my ex's cooking.....
Robatoy, sure you're not catching a whiff of the valley?? :o)
P D Q
In =
news:[email protected],
Robatoy <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
> On Feb 26, 7:58 pm, "PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> =
Innews:b9bc1b06-dd64-4199-b1f5-cacdfcb038b9@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com,=
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Charlie Groh <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:=20
>>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>>=20
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron"
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>=20
>>>>>> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
>>>>>> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>>=20
>>>>>> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with
>>>>>> running so much pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a
>>>>>> plumber.. I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require
>>>>>> replacing pipes and/or fittings..
>>=20
>>>>> Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be
>>>>> repaired. 30psig is nothing.
>>=20
>>>>> Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that
>>>>> anyway? Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
>>=20
>>>> ...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you
>>>> asked SoCalGas you may get another opinion. In most of the
>>>> remodels I've been involved with the plumber will run gas lines,
>>>> splice, etc., subject to inspection via local code.
>>=20
>>>> That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains
>>>> are too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out
>>>> and flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the
>>>> condition we're talking about...
>>=20
>>>> cg
>>=20
>>> But mercaptan smells quite different from sewer gas. At least around
>>> here. And then.. there was my ex's cooking.....
>>=20
>> Robatoy, sure you're not catching a whiff of the valley?? :o)
>>=20
>> P D Q
>=20
> Nope, I'm in the North End. Maybe once or twice a year, when the wind
> is directly from the South do I get a hint of Detroit.
> The local Chemical Valley 'scent' from 30 years ago has mostly
> disappeared.
Does take a while for those odours to dissipate.
Sometimes even longer for the memories.
P D Q
Vic Baron wrote:
>> Sounds to me more like you have a dry trap somewhere. Pour a bucket of
>> water
>> down every drain in the house, and see if that takes care of the problem.
>
>
> I have to give this a try. I live alone in a small house with two baths.
> Needless to say, I only use one. Probably should alternate to keep the
> water flowing but it slips my mind. Now that I think of it, I haven t run
> water in that bathroom for at least 6 months with exception of the
> commode. Worth a look.
If you use vegtable oil instead of water (it only takes about a cup),
you wont have to keep repeating the process as it wont evaporate. That's
what I finally had to my unused traps in my basement.
Lance
"Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:524e081f-2ed9-4652-b245-f08187fffa67@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 9:57 am, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>> rec to provide same.
>>
>> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
>> weeks
>> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
>> Over
>> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>>
>> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
>> it,
>> sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>> with
>> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all
>> the
>> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks
>> and
>> needed to replace all the pipes.
>>
>> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>>
>> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> everything I can.
>>
>> Thanx,
>>
>> Vic
>>
>> --
>> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
>> don't
>
> Hi Vic,
> I am a plumber with 30+ years of experience. You've got a minor
> dilemma on your hands . . . do we or don't we replace. If the answer
> is no and you've got a definite leak, (the rest is self-explanatory.)
> To begin with, let's forget about local codes. The pipe you have
> should be black steel pipe (or galvanized in some states - I know
> Texas used to be.) Anyhow, the pipe will withstand pressures
> exceeding 150 PSI so pressure up as long as you want. Be sure that
> any gas valves going to all appliances are closed or capped off
> because most appliances have their own regulators on them and you
> don't want to bust the diaphragm in one of them. When I did my own
> house years ago, I put it up to 100 PSI. I left if on for two days.
> Why not? The system will hold it and that little extra peace of mind
> didn't hurt at all. You can't hurt the pipes. If nothing else, you
> can hear a whistling at any leak and the soap test would be easier to
> detect. You can look it up on an ASME site somewhere, but I believe
> that Sch. 40 blck steel pipe has a burst test rating of around 250
> psi. so don't get nervous about shrapnel flying through your house.
> The majority of leaks in a gas system are usually found in the screwed
> joints. This is where the old pipe dope from "yesteryear" begins to
> dry out and crack. I would be willing to bet that's your problem.
> Replacing all the piping is a task in itself. If you have concealed
> piping in the attic, crawl space, or in the walls, it ain't easy.
> I've done a bunch of them over the years. If you can locate the
> leaking fittings, you can remove that section of pipe, replace the
> fitting, and re-thread the pipe and add a nipple and a union. Unions
> are not allowed inside concealed walls or any other place that could
> enclose or trap the gas. In either case, I'd look for another quote
> to replace the piping. The long and short of it all: Pressuring the
> system higher won't hurt it. Do whatever it takes to keep you and
> your family safe.
>
> On another note, I noticed that someone mentioned testing water lines
> as well. If they're copper or PVC, they'll withstand at least 150 #
> of pressure as well. Keep in mind that that kind of pressure would
> probably ruin your faucets, ballcock valves in your toilets not to
> mention the solenoid valve in your washer/dishwasher, but also the
> pressure relief valve on your water heater. The normal testing
> pressure for local codes is usually 1-1/2 times the normal operating
> pressure. Here in Las Vegas, the incoming pressure at the house entry
> ranges from 40-55 lbs. In Tennessee where I first got my Master's
> License, the street pressure entering the house in Knoxville was in
> excess of 180#. Every house has a pressure reducing valve and in some
> cases, an expansion tank. (sorry - got carried away.)
>
> One thing to remember is that natural gas smell like rotten eggs - a
> very distinctive odor. Sewer gas is what you smell outside the back
> of a smelly restaurant that doesn't maintain their grease trap!
> LOL!
>
> Hope this helps. Now I gotta get ready for tonight and tomorrow. My
> band is performing for opening day at NASCAR tomorrow.
>
> Jimmy Mac
> www.brazosriverband.com
>
>
JM - first - cool website - I'm a big country fan - always have it streaming
on my computer when I'm at work.
Appreciate your insight. I worked around mercaptans for years, used to use
them to odorize toxic chemicals used in rocket fuels. Always nice to work
with something that is lethal at 10ppm but you can't smell it until 20ppm.
This odor is "on the fence" - this leak, if it is a bonafide leak - is so
small that after the first sniff of recognition all I'm left with is the
dank smell of musty clothes etc. Possible I have a little of both.
Have the name of a local plumber who comes recommended by a friend.
Hopefully I can get him to check it out.
Thanx
>
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it with
>the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all the
>appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks and
>needed to replace all the pipes.
>
>Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>I have a small house but
>we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>everything I can.
About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber then did the
(code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes. He and his partner spent the
next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old cast iron pipes. They did not
have to replace anything, just refit some of the connections. The net cost was
$1600. Neither my wife nor I smelled anything.
So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get them fixed,
and you ought to find someone else to do it.
-- Doug
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 26, 12:57 pm, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>> rec to provide same.
>>
>> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
>> weeks
>> ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then gone.
>> Over
>> time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>>
>> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
>> it,
>> sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>> with
>> the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped all
>> the
>> appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found 5 leaks
>> and
>> needed to replace all the pipes.
>>
>> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>>
>> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> everything I can.
>>
>> Thanx,
>>
>> Vic
>>
>> --
>> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
>> don't
>
> I'd get another opinion. Besides, $ 2300 seems like an assload for a
> simple job like that.
> You sure would have been smelling lots of mercaptan if he over-
> pressured with 30 psig and had 5 leaks.
That's my feeling. I'm no plumber but common sense tells me that if there
were 5 leaks then the gas man's sniffer would have been screaming. My gut is
telling me that the plumber was looking for his own economic stimulus
package.
I'll see if any of my friends know a plumber they have confidence in and
have him check.
Thanx!
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in
> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
> everything I can.
Rough-in test pressures are usually higher (30 psi for 24 hours is not
uncommon) than what is required in your situation with appliances attached.
$2300 does not seem out of line for what you describe, at least in this area
(Houston, TX). The cheapest I've dealt with in a similar situation was in
the $1800 - $2000 range, and that was a few years back.
I'd be willing to bet a second opinion, if there are indeed leaks, will be
close to the same ... the guys are like mechanics, pricing out of a book.
Is the gas hooked up to the meter now? If the plumber contacts the city, and
he may be required to, you may well have to have the work done (if you want
gas, that is) because any work started will require a permit first, and the
meter must remain disconnected until an inspection has been passed.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"bq340" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Vic Baron wrote:
>> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>> rec to provide same.
>>
>>
>> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
>> weeks ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then
>> gone. Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>>
>> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
>> it, sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>> with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
>> all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found
>> 5 leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>>
>> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>>
>> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> everything I can.
>>
>> Thanx,
>>
>> Vic
>>
>
> Are you sure it is gas? Sometimes a dried trap in a floor drain will
> intermittently stink.
>
> MikeB
Mike may have the correct answer. I had this problem one time. Gas company
checked everywhere. Added water to the floor drain and odor was gone. WW
"bq340" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Vic Baron wrote:
>> Sorry for the OT but I need some honest answers and have always found the
>> rec to provide same.
>>
>>
>> Problem - smelled one of those " do I really smell gas?" odors a few
>> weeks ago - then it was gone. Few days later, an instant whiff and then
>> gone. Over time I determined the smell not coming from any appliances.
>>
>> Called Gas Co and they came out. Tech said his snigger "just" triggered,
>> indicating a very small leak somewhere but not enough for him to turn off
>> the gas. He checked the drop at the meter and sniffed around the ground
>> vents around the house with no hits. Just that one spot in the back of a
>> cupboard where a drain pipe goes through the wall under the house.
>>
>> Again, this is NOT a constant gas odor - it's a sniff, I think I smell
>> it, sniff again, it's gone.
>>
>> ANYHOW - called a plumber to check for the leak - he couldn't find it
>> with the soapy water method so he disconnected the gas meter and capped
>> all the appliances and pressurized the system to 30psi. Told me he found
>> 5 leaks and needed to replace all the pipes.
>>
>> Now, I happen to know that the code spec here in Los Angeles is 10psi
>> holding for 15 minutes. I also think I would smell if I had 5 gas leaks.
>>
>> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> everything I can.
>>
>> Thanx,
>>
>> Vic
>>
>
> Are you sure it is gas? Sometimes a dried trap in a floor drain will
> intermittently stink.
>
> MikeB
Great point Mike. The area of the odor is a kitchen cab adjacent to a
stainless dual sink and the disposal side is open. I wonder, the gas man
stuck his sniffer down the disposal opening and it buzzed louder than when
he stuck it in the cabinet. Really hard to tell though.
Seems like a second opinion is in order.
Thanx!
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in
>
>> I realize that this is POSSIBLE but does this sound right to you? Also,
>> considering that this seems to be a really small leak - is there a minor
>> repair option w/o replacing the whole shebang? I have a small house but
>> we're still looking at $2300 and in this economy, I'm hanging on to
>> everything I can.
>
> Rough-in test pressures are usually higher (30 psi for 24 hours is not
> uncommon) than what is required in your situation with appliances
> attached.
>
> $2300 does not seem out of line for what you describe, at least in this
> area (Houston, TX). The cheapest I've dealt with in a similar situation
> was in the $1800 - $2000 range, and that was a few years back.
>
> I'd be willing to bet a second opinion, if there are indeed leaks, will be
> close to the same ... the guys are like mechanics, pricing out of a book.
>
> Is the gas hooked up to the meter now? If the plumber contacts the city,
> and he may be required to, you may well have to have the work done (if you
> want gas, that is) because any work started will require a permit first,
> and the meter must remain disconnected until an inspection has been
> passed.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Even though he wrote on his invoice that he did not reconnect it, he did
reconnect it. He also wrote in big print that he and his company was not
responsible in case of damage or death.
Interesting thing, it's been almost 2 days now and I have not smelled
anything unusual. Maybe he inadvertently fixed the leak when he put
everything back together. I also ran water down every drain just to be sure.
So far so good.
JIC anyone thinks I'm playing Russian roulette here, the absolute worse
smell was an instant whiff and then nothing. Not even as much as you get
when you turn on a stove and the pilot takes a second or two longer before
ignition. I guarantee that if I *smelled* gas, I'd call gasco asap.
Vic
"Jimmy Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Feb 26, 4:35 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Jimmy Mac" wrote
>>
>> > It will really have to be cold for this to
>> > happen (below 40° or so.)
>>
>> LOL!!
>>
>> Forgive me for picking nits.
>>
>> But 40° is hardly considered cold, Even in a mild weather zone like I
>> live
>> in, that is not cold. (Although it did snow here today.)
>
> You and I both know that 40° ain't cold Lee. The last Frosty Balls
> Motorcycle run I was on was down to 31° and on a bike . . . THAT'S
> cold.
> However, he said he lived in L.A. so 40 would be a bit on the chilly
> side for the Cali folks. LOL
>
> Jimmy
Yup! Got my thermals on! :)
Amazing thing - I grew up in Erie PA and if you want cold, just wait for the
wind to come in off the lake. Being in Buffalo, Jack knows what I mean. I
was always running around in light shirts etc. Then I move to Southern
California and after 50+ years here I have to turn the heater on if it's 60!
Jimmy Mac <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 2, 6:48 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>>
>> > About four years ago, I added a gas water heater. The plumber then
>> > did the (code required) leak test. 10 psi for 15 minutes. He and his
>> > partner spent the next two days chasing leaks in the 60 year old cast
>> > iron pipes. They did not have to replace anything, just refit some of
>> > the connections. The net cost was $1600. Neither my wife nor I
>> > smelled anything.
>>
>> > So I'd say it is quite likely you have the leaks, you ought to get
>> > them fixed, and you ought to find someone else to do it.
>>
>> I believe that the ability to smell some kinds of odorants is genetically
>> determined. Some people can smell it/them, some can't.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards
>> Han
>> email address is invalid
>
>Han,
>Where do yo live where there were cast iron gas pipes? Just curious.
>
>J
That was me and it was a brain fart. I meant black iron.
-- Doug
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
>> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>>
>> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so much
>> pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
>> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
>> fittings..
>>
>Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
>30psig is nothing.
>
>Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
>Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
hmm.. never even heard of a gas fitter..
I California it was just a plumber's licence.. They do both..
Would you need 2 service calls for a water heater installation, a plumber and a
gas fitter?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:03:50 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 1:22 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:34 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm NOT a plumber, but I'd suggest following your instincts..
>> Would he test your water lines by putting 50 pounds in them?
>>
>> My worry would be that he could have CAUSED the leaks with running so much
>> pressure through the lines, but again, I'm not a plumber..
>> I'd hate to think that his test now DOES require replacing pipes and/or
>> fittings..
>>
>Well, mac, if that is what happened, it damn well should be repaired.
>30psig is nothing.
>
>Besides, what the hell is a plumber doing on a job like that anyway?
>Shouldn't that be a gas-fitter.. with a proper license?
...plumbers around here handle gas with regularity, but if you asked
SoCalGas you may get another opinion. In most of the remodels I've
been involved with the plumber will run gas lines, splice, etc.,
subject to inspection via local code.
That said, sewer gas backs up all the time in my city...the mains are
too small and are being replaced but the city has to come out and
flush the older ones once in awhile, this can produce the condition
we're talking about...
cg