In article <[email protected]>, Eddie Munster
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Robin Lee wrote:
>
> >We've made an arrangement to play "public domain" music in our stores, for
> >the cost of a set of CD's for each
> >
> >
> Well if it was public domain music, couldn't you have bought one set and
> made copies?
> Kidding, just joking!!!
>
> Some radio stations urge the listener to play them in the workplace. All
> day long! In a way the station is licencing the end user to do so.
I'm not sure how Canuckian laws differ, but Down Here there's a
distinction between public and non-public. Playing it in your office is
one thing; playing it where customers or visitors or the general public
can hear it (anywhere that it's seen as an attraction or part of the
atmosphere), invokes royalties.
Kevin
"stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> check this out....
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
>
> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
Jon E
"Jon Endres, PE" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...>
> What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
> the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
>
I don't agree with the unethical part. Seems to me I can buy and sell
anything I want, for what ever price I can get for it. Buyer beware!
If this is unethical, why is it NOT unethical for differant stores to sell
the same item at differant prices! If Amazon sells a tool for $500 it must
be unethical for the local hardware store to ask $550!
Greg
I haven't been screwed on ebay yet, but how do they fake the positive
feedback?
dean s
"stickdoctorq" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:m3x%[email protected]:
>
> >
> >
> > "stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:[email protected]...
> >> check this out....
> >>
> >>
> > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=1
> > 3874
> >>
> >> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
> >>
> >> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
> >>
> >> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
> >
> > Did you notice he has a perfect 100% feedback rating on 266
> > transactions? That's a lot of happy shafted customers.
> >
> > P.
> >
> >
>
> I think it is a fairly safe assumption that his ratings and feedback are
> faked....
stickdoctorq wrote:
> I think it is a fairly safe assumption that his ratings and feedback are
> faked....
I don't put any stock in that crap anyway unless it's a seriously negative
number.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
$139 US today on the Veritas website, and this Bozo (apologies to any
real life clowns) want $199US if you "buy it now"
And you're right, someone will buy it AND wind up paying $20 US
shipping as well
What a rip off
John
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:05:26 GMT, stickdoctor
<[email protected]> wrote:
>check this out....
>
>http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
>
>Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
>This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
>And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
I see this all the time on EBay. To bad, some knucklehead will probably bid
on it.
BTW, I have the plane and it is a very good tool.
Dave
"stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> check this out....
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
>
> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
>Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
>beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
>customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
>piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
>
>Just remember, if it seems too good to be true.....it is.
Not at all - I have 291 positives and no negatives (actually 321
positives but some are duplicates). I describe items accurately,
respond to questions promptly and ship immediately upon receipt of
payment whenever I sell. When I buy, I contact the seller promptly and
pay as soon as I have a total. When you do that you should receive all
positive feedback. Unfortunately, you can't protect everyone from
their own stupidity. I've seen people at live auctions bid used items
up beyond the new retail price- saw several examples a few weeks ago.
All you can do is shake your head and wonder why they didn't do a
little research.
That explains the newly posted big sign close to the
speakers saying words to the effect that this music
is brought to you by <national public radio corporation>
in your stores (at least in Toronto).
--
Think thrice, measure twice and cut once.
Sanding is like paying taxes ... everyone has to do it, but it is
important to take steps to minimize it.
There is only one period and no underscores in the real email address.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"stickdoctor" wrote in message
> check this out....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
Answering some of the posts:
He has been scared away. The item was ended.
As for feedback, ebay monitors those who intentional try to bring it up. One
way is to set up 10 or 20 accounts, and then give each other feedback. Another
is to buy a lot of $1.00 items. With the feedback the seller has, looks
valid.
As for 100% feedback, it is not hard. Just do a good job, answer emails, keep
in touch, and tell the truth in listings. ( my selling id is reliable-quality )
With regards to selling higher than the retail price, may be illegal. Fair
Business Practrices Act come to mind. But from my experience, buyers are not
that stupid.
Private bidder status is not that big a deal. It would concern me with sellers
with low feedback or ones trying to sell expensive items, such as plasma TV's,
electronics, etc.
: "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to
: leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility"
: -- George M. Wrong.
:
: Angelo Castellano emails - statsone@sympatico dot gov
: gov to be replaced with ca
: www.reliable-quality.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBQD+KOZOWK89ESPDqEQLMcACeLUkj65q7EOe4o1OAY/wPSTNizOAAoOan
KymT8gMs0rmvRJEIqC7NqX+u
=qLnc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:02:03 GMT, Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >> <snip>
> >... snip
> >>
> >> The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of our
> >> "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
> >>
> >> It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
> >> regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
> >>
> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
> >>
> >> Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that can
> >> be done....
> >>
> >
> > Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers from
> >being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to stop
> >anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
> >
> > Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit about
> >digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about the
> >degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
> >over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your intention,
> >your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
>
>
> I think you may have missed part of Rob's point- if Lee Valley listed
> the same items, they would come up on the same searches that returned
> the scalper. then anyone who would have been looking at those auctions
> would also be looking at Lee Valley's auctions.
>
No, I got that point, the part that got me was the "other than ....,
there's not much that can be done.", somehow leaving the impression that
there should be a means and mechanism to be able to do more to shut down
such activities. That was what raised the hairs on the back of my neck.
There is a significant effort on the part of some folks to give the
original seller of various goods rights to dictate how you dispose of
those goods in the future, this is why I raised my concerns. As an
example, the RIAA had e-bay cancel some auctions for a CD (Britney
Spears or Madonna?) that some people had listed. These CD's were
legally obtained by the people listing them on e-bay when they bought
jeans at The Gap; a free CD was given with each pair. For whatever
reason, these folks didn't want the CD (maybe they like those two
artists as much as I do) and decided that rather than just throwing them
away, auctioning them off on e-bay would be a good way to get rid of
them. RIAA somehow felt that such activities were somehow violating the
RIAA's rights in those CD's. I am just concerned about a mindset that
has the idea that "I wish there was more that could be done"
In article <[email protected]>, "Robin Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>We've made an arrangement to play "public domain" music in our stores, for
>the cost of a set of CD's for each, and can now avoid the SOCAN fees. We
>were, however, not comfortable with avoiding the intent of the legislation,
>and are in the process of acquiring subscriptions to a local orchestra (we
>play classical music) in every city in which we have a store. Seems fair -
>the performers get the direct benefit, and the music industry leeches can
>pound salt.
I *like* the way this man thinks!
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
Hi Greg (and all in the above part of this thread),
Ethical standards differ, based on the (metaphysical) assumptions of
your particular ethical system.
It would be more worthwhile to discuss this in terms of legality. What
he's doing is perfectly legal and done by many resellers (with the
exception of using copyrighted images if he has done that...).
Ethically, I would ask what service he is adding to his source to
justify raising the price (and if the service is worth the
difference). The only argument I can imagine this character has is
that he offers the product in a venue the source does not (I'm
presuming LV does not sell on ebay. I may be wrong). So, by my system
of ethics what he is doing is dishonest and therefore unethical, but
perfectly legal.
Caveat emptor,
H
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jon Endres, PE" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...>
> > What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
> > the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
> >
>
>
> I don't agree with the unethical part. Seems to me I can buy and sell
> anything I want, for what ever price I can get for it. Buyer beware!
> If this is unethical, why is it NOT unethical for differant stores to sell
> the same item at differant prices! If Amazon sells a tool for $500 it must
> be unethical for the local hardware store to ask $550!
> Greg
stickdoctorq <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
<snip>
> Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
> beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
> customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
> piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
<snip>
I don't know about that. Most all of those silly rating blurbs read
the same to me, like a bunch of scared chickens afraid to raise a
critical point, regardless the quality of the seller. And if this guy
sells stuff at outrageous prices, then he's only got idiots for
buyers: how many idiots are willing to admit they got taken?
H.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:06:30 GMT, Steve Knight
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>The only thing unethical about this is the use of Lee Valley's
>>copyrighted images.
>
>Rob Lee has reported him.
And they took the post down. "Invalid Item"
.-.
Life is short. Eat dessert first!
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Sorry Mark -
>
> This is another guy who had previously been using our images....as long as
> he uses his own - he's certainly free to sell what he wants.
>
> The thing is - I'm the one who gets the complaints about the high prices on
> products we produce...which is why I have to say "there's not much that can
> be done"... I'm not about to defend people who are taking advantage of
> others, so I really don't think that a choice of words that implies
> disapproval is out of line at all...
>
Rob, I agree that there is nothing wrong with your disapproval. My
only concern was the implication that there should be something that
could be done about it (other than a few good strong wacks with a Klown
Hamma).
One wouldn't expect you to defend the actions of someone acting
unethically, especially when it is your products that they are abusing.
If they use your copyrighted images, best of luck to you in smacking
some sense into them.
> Sure he's within his rights to take advantage of the ill-informed...but
> no-one has to like it, nor respect it - and I certainly don't.
>
... and I certainly agree with that sentiment. Knowing that there are
uninformed people is one thing, taking advantage of them something else
entirely.
> Sincerely -
>
> Rob Lee
>
>
>
> There
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > > <snip>
> > ... snip
> > >
> > > The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of
> our
> > > "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
> > >
> > > It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
> > > regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
> > >
> > >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
> > >
> > > Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that
> can
> > > be done....
> > >
> >
> > Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers from
> > being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to stop
> > anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
> >
> > Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit about
> > digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about the
> > degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
> > over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your intention,
> > your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
>
>
>
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:05:26 GMT, stickdoctor
<[email protected]> wrote:
>check this out....
Note the "private bidder" status - always a warning sign
--
Smert' spamionam
In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> <snip>
... snip
>
> The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of our
> "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
>
> It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
> regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
>
> Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that can
> be done....
>
Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers from
being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to stop
anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit about
digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about the
degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your intention,
your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
stickdoctorq <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "das" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> > I haven't been screwed on ebay yet, but how do they fake the positive
> > feedback?
> >
> >
> > dean s
> >
> >
> > "stickdoctorq" <[email protected]> wrote
> > in message news:[email protected]...
> >> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:m3x%[email protected]:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> > message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> check this out....
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&categor
> >> > y=1 3874
> >> >>
> >> >> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
> >> >>
> >> >> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
> >> >>
> >> >> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
> >> >
> >> > Did you notice he has a perfect 100% feedback rating on 266
> >> > transactions? That's a lot of happy shafted customers.
> >> >
> >> > P.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think it is a fairly safe assumption that his ratings and feedback
> >> are faked....
> >
> >
>
> there are ways.... I am not fully conversant but as a for instance, you
> can establish multiple accounts and basically supply feedback for all of
> your accounts from each other through faked auctions and
> transactions....very incestuous.
>
> I have also heard of automated tools that let you generate ebay accounts
> and ebay feedback/ratings very quickly in order to do things like this.
>
> Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
> beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
> customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
> piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
>
> Just remember, if it seems too good to be true.....it is.
Given that to be able to leave feedback an auction must have closed
successfully, getting 256 fake feedbacks would be somewhat expensive.
The seller would have to pay listing and selling fees to ebay for 256
items. The items that you could get back to from his feedback page
were mostly computer stuff selling in the $12 to $25 range so you are
probably looking at a couple of bucks for each which adds up after 256
times. More likely the people who would bid way above retail for this
stuff think they got a good deal and he shipped it on time and it was
as described so they were happy in their ignorance - therefore left
good feedback.
I myself have a feedback rating of 142 and 100% positive. These
represent both those who bought from me and those who sold to me so I
don't consider a 100% feedback rating as strange or questionable. I do
find that people buying this stuff at way above retail as strange -
kinda like all the Harbor Freight resellers on ebay selling HF stuff
at 50% or more above HFs regular prices - let alone their "sale"
prices. They seem to do a booming business though.
Dave Hall
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:13:35 GMT, stickdoctorq
<[email protected]> wrote:
>well, it is obvious this guy is a clip artist since he also has
>
>http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20762&item=2383178885
>
>veritas detail chisels set...his price $333.35, Lee Valley Price $189.00
$335.35? Where did you get that? When I looked at it, he was starting
at $189 with a Buy-It-Now of $199 (USD). Even the Loony price wasn't
that high (at least his Loony price; or is his Loony calculator
different?). But in any event, you can't compare the Loony price with
the Lee Valley USD price as an example of what a blight on human
decency the guy is.
Not to say it's not amusing...
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Or more likely don't know they got taken. It's only obvious if you know the
item can be purchased cheaper, but then if the buyer knew that they would
have done so. I'm always amazed at the HF resales, but then I know HF
exists. If I didn't know about HF I would think the resale prices are
reasonable.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ...how many idiots are willing to admit they got taken?
>
> H.
Hi again Mark...
Just re-read my reply from yesterday - and thought it reads a bit on the
"crusty" side...certainly wasn't the intent..!
I also share a concern about rights to material (and actions)...we have an
organisation up here just like RIAA - called SOCAN...the "music police"...
they're gleefully collecting license fees for public performance of music
(with goverment blessing) - which essentially means playing a radio in
public or in a workplace. They hit every coffee shop, dentist, retail store
etc. .The "assessment" we received (based on square footage) for our stores
was in the neigborhood of $6000 per year. While I certainly believe that
performance artists deserve the fruits of their labors, I can't find how
they derive any benefit from the agencies collecting the funds...lots of
overhead, payments to other organisations, payment to labels etc...seeme
like everyone BUT the musicians benefit...
We've made an arrangement to play "public domain" music in our stores, for
the cost of a set of CD's for each, and can now avoid the SOCAN fees. We
were, however, not comfortable with avoiding the intent of the legislation,
and are in the process of acquiring subscriptions to a local orchestra (we
play classical music) in every city in which we have a store. Seems fair -
the performers get the direct benefit, and the music industry leeches can
pound salt.
Cheers -
Rob
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > Sorry Mark -
> >
> > This is another guy who had previously been using our images....as long
as
> > he uses his own - he's certainly free to sell what he wants.
> >
>
>
>
> > The thing is - I'm the one who gets the complaints about the high prices
on
> > products we produce...which is why I have to say "there's not much that
can
> > be done"... I'm not about to defend people who are taking advantage of
> > others, so I really don't think that a choice of words that implies
> > disapproval is out of line at all...
> >
>
> Rob, I agree that there is nothing wrong with your disapproval. My
> only concern was the implication that there should be something that
> could be done about it (other than a few good strong wacks with a Klown
> Hamma).
>
> One wouldn't expect you to defend the actions of someone acting
> unethically, especially when it is your products that they are abusing.
> If they use your copyrighted images, best of luck to you in smacking
> some sense into them.
>
>
> > Sure he's within his rights to take advantage of the ill-informed...but
> > no-one has to like it, nor respect it - and I certainly don't.
> >
>
> ... and I certainly agree with that sentiment. Knowing that there are
> uninformed people is one thing, taking advantage of them something else
> entirely.
>
> > Sincerely -
> >
> > Rob Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > There
> > "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] says...
> > > > <snip>
> > > ... snip
> > > >
> > > > The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale
of
> > our
> > > > "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
> > > >
> > > > It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the
auctions
> > > > regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
> > > >
> > > > Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much
that
> > can
> > > > be done....
> > > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers
from
> > > being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to
stop
> > > anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
> > >
> > > Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit
about
> > > digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about
the
> > > degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
> > > over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your
intention,
> > > your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
> >
> >
> >
"Scott Post" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:akv%b.413360$xy6.2343622@attbi_s02...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Jon Endres, PE <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
> >the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
> >
>
> Lemme get this straight, a person buying something and selling it at a
> profit is unethical? That's how every store on earth operates.
>
> The only thing unethical about this is the use of Lee Valley's
> copyrighted images.
In this case, yes. Not everybody. This particular brand of sleaze
irritates me, when this is clearly a scam.
Jon E
Sorry Mark -
This is another guy who had previously been using our images....as long as
he uses his own - he's certainly free to sell what he wants.
The thing is - I'm the one who gets the complaints about the high prices on
products we produce...which is why I have to say "there's not much that can
be done"... I'm not about to defend people who are taking advantage of
others, so I really don't think that a choice of words that implies
disapproval is out of line at all...
Sure he's within his rights to take advantage of the ill-informed...but
no-one has to like it, nor respect it - and I certainly don't.
Sincerely -
Rob Lee
There
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > <snip>
> ... snip
> >
> > The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of
our
> > "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
> >
> > It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
> > regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
> >
> > Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that
can
> > be done....
> >
>
> Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers from
> being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to stop
> anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
>
> Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit about
> digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about the
> degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
> over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your intention,
> your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
I have 501 positive feedbacks, no neutrals, and only 1 negative so I don't
find it unusual at all. The one negative was when I bought a Christmas
decoration the first part of December and he didn't ship it until the end of
January (a little late for Christmas decorating). I left him a negative
feedback and he retaliated by leaving me a negative (even though I paid via
PayPal the day I won the auction). Due to the risk of retaliation I think
most people don't leave negative feedback, especially if it would be against
someone with a positive record.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> stickdoctorq <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:<[email protected]>...
> <snip>
> > Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
> > beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
> > customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
> > piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
> <snip>
>
> I don't know about that. Most all of those silly rating blurbs read
> the same to me, like a bunch of scared chickens afraid to raise a
> critical point, regardless the quality of the seller. And if this guy
> sells stuff at outrageous prices, then he's only got idiots for
> buyers: how many idiots are willing to admit they got taken?
>
> H.
"Mo' Sawdust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That explains the newly posted big sign close to the
> speakers saying words to the effect that this music
> is brought to you by <national public radio corporation>
> in your stores (at least in Toronto).
>
<snip>
Yup - and we'll most likely be drawing for the orchestra tickets at each
store - well some of them anyway....
Cheers -
Rob
"Scott Post" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:akv%b.413360$xy6.2343622@attbi_s02...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Jon Endres, PE <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
> >the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
> >
>
> Lemme get this straight, a person buying something and selling it at a
> profit is unethical? That's how every store on earth operates.
>
> The only thing unethical about this is the use of Lee Valley's
> copyrighted images.
>
> --
> Scott Post [email protected]
http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost/
And much of the text comes right from LV's page.
stickdoctor <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> check this out....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=1
> 3874
>
> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
>
well, it is obvious this guy is a clip artist since he also has
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20762&item=2383178885
veritas detail chisels set...his price $333.35, Lee Valley Price $189.00
and
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13874&item=3277204954
taiwan wooden smooth plane his price $79.99, Lee Valley price $52.50
*sigh* yet another blow to faith in man's innate decency...
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:m3x%[email protected]:
>
>
> "stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>> check this out....
>>
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=1
> 3874
>>
>> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>>
>> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>>
>> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
>
> Did you notice he has a perfect 100% feedback rating on 266
> transactions? That's a lot of happy shafted customers.
>
> P.
>
>
I think it is a fairly safe assumption that his ratings and feedback are
faked....
"das" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I haven't been screwed on ebay yet, but how do they fake the positive
> feedback?
>
>
> dean s
>
>
> "stickdoctorq" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
>> "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:m3x%[email protected]:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > "stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> > message news:[email protected]...
>> >> check this out....
>> >>
>> >>
>> > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&categor
>> > y=1 3874
>> >>
>> >> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>> >>
>> >> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>> >>
>> >> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
>> >
>> > Did you notice he has a perfect 100% feedback rating on 266
>> > transactions? That's a lot of happy shafted customers.
>> >
>> > P.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I think it is a fairly safe assumption that his ratings and feedback
>> are faked....
>
>
there are ways.... I am not fully conversant but as a for instance, you
can establish multiple accounts and basically supply feedback for all of
your accounts from each other through faked auctions and
transactions....very incestuous.
I have also heard of automated tools that let you generate ebay accounts
and ebay feedback/ratings very quickly in order to do things like this.
Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
Just remember, if it seems too good to be true.....it is.
Joe Helmick <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> There's not a THING idiotic or unethical about selling something for a
> profit. There's also nothing unethical about selling for a price
> higher than another vendor. If it were, there would be no "good
> deals" ANYWHERE.
>
> The capital rule about pricing applies here: "What the market will
> bear."
>
> If the eBay market will bear above-retail prices because of the
> ignorance of bidders, or because of the "auction frenzy" mentality,
> then that's just fine as far as I'm concerned.
>
> There are MANY auction areas on eBay where items end up selling for
> well above retail.
>
> I do agree that the auctions in questioned should have been shut down
> for image and textual copyright infringement. But if he wrote his own
> text and took a picture with his digital camera, then I say more power
> to him!
>
> Joe
>
>
Then, properly forwarned, I will not ever do any business with you or any
company that you represent, for you can not be trusted due to your complete
lack of business ethics (now THERE's an oxymoron for ya....).
He said to me that the shipping and taxes he's paid make $200 "buy it now" a
pretty good deal.
"James Cubby Culbertson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I actually just sent the guy a message asking why he's asking more
> than the retailer's price. Might be interesting to see a reply.
>
> As for unethical, it's not as long as the individual is a licensed
> distributer. I doubt this numnuts is.
>
> Cheers,
> cc
sslawnh responds:
>
>You guys are all crazy!
>
>"Ethics" has no place in a discussion of retail sales.
>
Checked the Lee Valley catalog lately? I vote that ethics certainly has a place
and LV shows where it is.
Charlie Self
I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected.
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
In article <[email protected]>, Charlie Self
<[email protected]> wrote:
> sslawnh responds:
> >You guys are all crazy!
> >
> >"Ethics" has no place in a discussion of retail sales.
> >
>
> Checked the Lee Valley catalog lately? I vote that ethics certainly has a
> place
> and LV shows where it is.
Amen, Charlie. They're a breath of fresh air and proof that "ethical
success" is not an oxymoron.
djb
--
Is it time to change my sig line yet?
OK, maybe not. Let's just say (tmPL) it offends MY sense of ethics.
Jon E
"S S Law NH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You guys are all crazy!
>
> "Ethics" has no place in a discussion of retail sales.
>
> Jay in NH
In article <[email protected]>,
Jon Endres, PE <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>What happens is that the seller buys it from Lee Valley and resells it to
>the high bidder. Makes a quick fifty bucks. Unethical? Yes.
>
Lemme get this straight, a person buying something and selling it at a
profit is unethical? That's how every store on earth operates.
The only thing unethical about this is the use of Lee Valley's
copyrighted images.
--
Scott Post [email protected] http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost/
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
... snip
> We've made an arrangement to play "public domain" music in our stores, for
> the cost of a set of CD's for each, and can now avoid the SOCAN fees. We
> were, however, not comfortable with avoiding the intent of the legislation,
> and are in the process of acquiring subscriptions to a local orchestra (we
> play classical music) in every city in which we have a store. Seems fair -
> the performers get the direct benefit, and the music industry leeches can
> pound salt.
>
>
> Cheers -
>
> Rob
>
Rob,
Good for you! You guys are a class[ical] act!
... snip
> >
> >veritas detail chisels set...his price $333.35, Lee Valley Price $189.00
>
> $335.35? Where did you get that? When I looked at it, he was starting
> at $189 with a Buy-It-Now of $199 (USD). Even the Loony price wasn't
> that high (at least his Loony price; or is his Loony calculator
> different?). But in any event, you can't compare the Loony price with
> the Lee Valley USD price as an example of what a blight on human
> decency the guy is.
>
The guy must read the wreck. His original prices have been revised.
Come on now fess up, which one of you guys is bestbuy$4less?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Given that to be able to leave feedback an auction must have closed
> successfully, getting 256 fake feedbacks would be somewhat expensive.
>
I looked. Several of the feedbacks are duplicates and some are
when he was a buyer, not a seller. So the actual total is
somewhat less. I don't know how or if they're faked, but I did
notice that an item number was not given on any.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Sure he's within his rights to take advantage of the ill-informed...but
> no-one has to like it, nor respect it - and I certainly don't.
>
Agreed. "Legal" and "ethical" are not synonyms.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
stickdoctorq <[email protected]> bellowed forth
with this wisdom for all to hear:
> Joe Helmick <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > There's not a THING idiotic or unethical about selling something for a
> > profit. There's also nothing unethical about selling for a price
> > higher than another vendor. If it were, there would be no "good
> > deals" ANYWHERE.
> >
> > The capital rule about pricing applies here: "What the market will
> > bear."
> >
> > If the eBay market will bear above-retail prices because of the
> > ignorance of bidders, or because of the "auction frenzy" mentality,
> > then that's just fine as far as I'm concerned.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
>
>
> Then, properly forwarned, I will not ever do any business with you or any
> company that you represent, for you can not be trusted due to your complete
> lack of business ethics (now THERE's an oxymoron for ya....).
Of course that's your prerogative, Doc, but think it through...
Let's take ground beef for example. Store A is selling ground beef for $2.09 a
pound. Store B is selling it for $1.39 a pound.
Does this make Store A guilty of an ethics violation? I don't think so.
Further, I don't think that most reasonable people would think so, either, even
though Store A is charging 50% more than Store B. If they're happy with their
sales volume at that price, then so be it.
The customer is free to choose to pay either price. Well-informed and judicious
buyers in a market with low barriers to entry and full information tend to drive
prices downward and make prices from different vendors converge, for all but
so-called Geffen goods.
If a seller understands the concept of price/volume equilibrium, he can make a
choice of selling price versus volume to maximize profits or return on
investment. This is all taught in Microeconomics 101.
If that concept makes you blanch and recoil with suspicion of ethics violations,
then I'd suspect that you either don't understand the concept, or that you think
making more profit than the other guy is somehow evil and underhanded. If it's
the former, that can be solved with knowledge. If it's the latter, it's a
belief system issue, and knowledge won't help you.
Joe
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:59:24 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> No, I got that point, the part that got me was the "other than ....,
>there's not much that can be done.", somehow leaving the impression that
>there should be a means and mechanism to be able to do more to shut down
>such activities. That was what raised the hairs on the back of my neck.
>There is a significant effort on the part of some folks to give the
>original seller of various goods rights to dictate how you dispose of
>those goods in the future, this is why I raised my concerns. As an
>example, the RIAA had e-bay cancel some auctions for a CD (Britney
>Spears or Madonna?) that some people had listed. These CD's were
>legally obtained by the people listing them on e-bay when they bought
>jeans at The Gap; a free CD was given with each pair. For whatever
>reason, these folks didn't want the CD (maybe they like those two
>artists as much as I do) and decided that rather than just throwing them
>away, auctioning them off on e-bay would be a good way to get rid of
>them. RIAA somehow felt that such activities were somehow violating the
>RIAA's rights in those CD's. I am just concerned about a mindset that
>has the idea that "I wish there was more that could be done"
OK, I waited a bit to let Rob respond first.
Mark, I agree with you. mostly. I can see an argument that Lee Valley
should be able to have some say in who the dealers of their products
are- or at least know WHO they are. calling some ebay hustler a dealer
may be a stretch, but there is a line there somewhere. the guy was
buying them strictly to sell them.
I have no sympathy for the riaa. they screw the musicians and the fans
at the expense of a few corporate executives. this is a clear case of
racketeering, imo.
Bridger
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:02:03 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <zPH%[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> <snip>
>... snip
>>
>> The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of our
>> "Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
>>
>> It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
>> regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
>>
>> Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that can
>> be done....
>>
>
> Doesn't seem like anything should be done. You can't stop buyers from
>being uninformed about actual prices, and you shouldn't be able to stop
>anyone from reselling what they have legitimately purchased.
>
> Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I've been reading quite a bit about
>digital rights management lately and it's making me a bit edgy about the
>degree of control in perpetuity some businesses think they should have
>over what they have sold. Rob, I know that this was not your intention,
>your final statement just hit me as slightly wrong.
I think you may have missed part of Rob's point- if Lee Valley listed
the same items, they would come up on the same searches that returned
the scalper. then anyone who would have been looking at those auctions
would also be looking at Lee Valley's auctions.
"stickdoctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> check this out....
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
>
> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
Did you notice he has a perfect 100% feedback rating on 266 transactions?
That's a lot of happy shafted customers.
P.
There's not a THING idiotic or unethical about selling something for a profit.
There's also nothing unethical about selling for a price higher than another
vendor. If it were, there would be no "good deals" ANYWHERE.
The capital rule about pricing applies here: "What the market will bear."
If the eBay market will bear above-retail prices because of the ignorance of
bidders, or because of the "auction frenzy" mentality, then that's just fine as
far as I'm concerned.
There are MANY auction areas on eBay where items end up selling for well above
retail.
I do agree that the auctions in questioned should have been shut down for image
and textual copyright infringement. But if he wrote his own text and took a
picture with his digital camera, then I say more power to him!
Joe
stickdoctor <[email protected]> bellowed forth with
this wisdom for all to hear:
> check this out....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3277194891&category=13874
>
> Mother of all that I hold sacred....
>
> This thing is only $180 CANADIAN! from Lee Valley...
>
> And the sad thing is that some sucker will probably buy it....
Can you guess why there are two types of recordable CD media available at
the computer store?
One for data and one for music.
Now there is realy no difference ..... except you pay royalitys for the
music you might record on the music CD's.
To my way of thinking if you pay the royality then it is the same as if you
bought the real CD and you should have the same rights to use or dispose of
it as you see fit.
Same with DAT tape .... a portion of the sales price is royality for music
you might record on it.
In fact the music industry kept DAT tape machines out of the USA for many
years while they hashed out a way to get some of the money.
William Lee
> No, I got that point, the part that got me was the "other than ....,
> there's not much that can be done.", somehow leaving the impression that
> there should be a means and mechanism to be able to do more to shut down
> such activities. That was what raised the hairs on the back of my neck.
> There is a significant effort on the part of some folks to give the
> original seller of various goods rights to dictate how you dispose of
> those goods in the future, this is why I raised my concerns. As an
> example, the RIAA had e-bay cancel some auctions for a CD (Britney
> Spears or Madonna?) that some people had listed. These CD's were
> legally obtained by the people listing them on e-bay when they bought
> jeans at The Gap; a free CD was given with each pair. For whatever
> reason, these folks didn't want the CD (maybe they like those two
> artists as much as I do) and decided that rather than just throwing them
> away, auctioning them off on e-bay would be a good way to get rid of
> them. RIAA somehow felt that such activities were somehow violating the
> RIAA's rights in those CD's. I am just concerned about a mindset that
> has the idea that "I wish there was more that could be done"
Robin Lee wrote:
>We've made an arrangement to play "public domain" music in our stores, for
>the cost of a set of CD's for each
>
>
Well if it was public domain music, couldn't you have bought one set and
made copies?
Kidding, just joking!!!
Some radio stations urge the listener to play them in the workplace. All
day long! In a way the station is licencing the end user to do so.
I share your feelings about the music patrol. Just when I thought I
heard it all.
I like the music in your stores. Better than a radio station.
I bought the pair of new spokeshaves Saturday. Last day of the discount.
Havent used them yet, but they sure look nice!
John
<snip>
>
> Seriously though, doesn't it just make your bullshit detector go "beep
> beep beep"? Strangely similiar words of praise in the feedback, and 256
> customers with not a single one posting a negative rating in a moment of
> piss-off? Not even Lee Valley has a success rate that good....
>
> Just remember, if it seems too good to be true.....it is.
Well ...
I have over 900 transactions with no negative feedback.... :)
This type of posting to eBay happens frequently... we can only object if the
seller uses our images without permission, or clones our text. We do get the
auctions cancelled. If we find out who the seller is - we're also within our
rights to refuse to sell to them at all...
The most common "rip-off" on eBay using our products is the resale of our
"Stanley Conbination Planes Book"....
It's up there now, as I type...our price is $3.95 US ... the auctions
regularly finish for $7-$25 plus shipping...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3276001776&category=13874
Other than putting up the same items ourselves - there's not much that can
be done....
Cheers -
Rob