I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
am doing.
This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain and
varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
tennon and grove jointery.
In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The back
FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
tenons.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in each
cabinet.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
On 1/21/2016 8:15 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:07:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2016 11:54 AM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>>>>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>>>>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>>>>> SketchUp to heart.
>>>>>
>>>>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>>>>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>>>>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>>>>
>>>>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>>>>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>>>>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>>>>
>>>>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>>>>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>>>>> been.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>>>> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>>>> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>>>> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>>>> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>>>> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>>
>>> I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
>>> to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
>>> later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
>>> again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
>>> construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
>>> measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
>>> league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
>>> without Sketchup.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly and just to put that another way, The pieces that you are going
>> to cut in the shop as parts of a project should also be drawn as
>> separate objects and made into components "before" moving to the next
>> part to be drawn and made into a component.
>
> I often/usually do the opposite. I'll draw a rectangle on a board,
> then "grow" (pull, actually) an intersecting board from that one. A
> little adjustment, and I have a dado for the joint. This way, I don't
> have to size the second object. It gets two dimensions from the first
> object. Then, as I'm "growing" it, just type in its length, and it's
> all done!
Yes, once you become more accustomed to drawing with Sketchup and how
things interact, inferences, with each other.
>>
>> Components can be edited at any time should you need to do that and
>> copies of that component will also update.
>
> Yes, one has to watch how one copies things. I used to start with a
> 2x4 and copy it all over, "cutting" it as necessary. The problem was
> that all of my parts kept changing size. Oops!
Yeah, if you want to make a copy of a component unique, right click it
and make it unique. You can go with the automatically assigned new but
similar name or give it a new name.
And don't fot get flipping to get a mirror image when you copy
components, if that needs to be done. I know you probably know that.
>>
>> Then you can move the components in the drawing to form what you want to
>> build.
>>
>> Do not draw every thing at once and or as a single unit.
>
> I do it both ways.
>
If I need to work withing a specific foot print I will often draw a box
to those dimensions, make that a component, and erase the surfaces.
Then I begin drawing inside the outline of that box. Once my over all
model size is established and I am ready to draw in details I will
delete that foot print box or move it out of the way.
On 1/19/2016 5:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/19/16 2:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>> I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
>> built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
>>
>> This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
>> use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
>> am doing.
>>
>> This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
>> and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
>>
>> Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain and
>> varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
>> I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
>> tennon and grove jointery.
>>
>> In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The back
>> FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
>> joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
>> panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
>> tenons.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in each
>> cabinet.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
>> rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
>> grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
>> piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>
>
> Look at all that sloppy mess and glue squeeze-out! :-p
>
>
YEAY!!!!!
Every since I discovered the Festool Cristal and or Granat I don't worry
about the glue any more. The paper removes it and does not load up.
On 1/21/2016 9:14 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/21/2016 12:15 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup,
>>>> and Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so
>>>> given the accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot
>>>> contradict Karl's advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I
>>>> just could not seem to get it. I must be stupid, because I just
>>>> could not get my head wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>>
>>> I would urge you to try again. For amateur woodworkers, it is an
>>> incredibly
>>> useful tool; it is the same for pros but would also be money in the
>>> bank.
>>>
>>> It may be that you were trying to bite off too much at once. If you
>>> haven't
>>> alteady done so, watch the four "getting started" videos...
>>> http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58
>>>
>>> Basically, one can draw anything with straight and curved lines. In
>>> woodworking, the straight ones are the more dominant and Sketchup has
>>> two
>>> tools for that: the "line tool" and the "rectangle tool". One
>>> suggestion I
>>> have for you involves scale: forget about it; it is important if you are
>>> drawing by hand but with Sketchup it has no bearing; what IS
>>> important is
>>> dimensions which are displayed in the lower right and which are
>>> pertinent to
>>> the current operation.
>>>
>>> For example, suppose you want to draw a line that is 16 7/8" long; as
>>> you
>>> move the cursor, the length drawn will be displayed at the lower right.
>>> When I first started using Sketchup I saw the dimension box and tried to
>>> click on it so I could enter what I wanted. Doesn't work...one just
>>> starts
>>> to draw, then types the length desired (without clicking on the box)
>>> and the
>>> line auromatically shoots out. Same with rectangles except one
>>> enters the
>>> length and width with a comma inbetween (16 7/8,22 1/4 eg, fractions or
>>> decimals, either or both). Same with many other operations.
>>>
>>> For depth/height, use the push/pull tool on a two dimensional object
>>>
>>> Leon has mentioned the necessity of components. He is 100% right. I
>>> had
>>> many frustrations before I capitulated to his advice. After
>>> selecting an
>>> object (spacebar = select) the letter "G" will open a make component
>>> box.
>>> Why do you want components?
>>> 1. As Leon said, they don't stick to other things
>>> 2. You can use it again without redrawing (in same or different
>>> drawing)
>>> 3. #2 Saves memory and speeds operation.
>>
>> I'll add that by left clicking and dragging a box around what you want
>> to select you kill a bunch of birds with one stone. And reverse
>> dragging selects only those lines that are fully contained with in the
>> drag box.
>>
>
> Those are exactly the sort of things that are easier to learn from a
> book than a video. With a video, you miss it.
>
>
It all depends on the learner. Some people do better learning from
video, ME, some do not, YOU. ;~)
I am much more visual.
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Mike have you use a drawing program before? If you are not well versed
>> it could increase the learning curve...
>
> No - SU was my first attempt at using one.
>
Well that can present a general understanding problem but if you want to
learn the program I would be happy to answer any questions about how to do
something and or why something reacts or works differently than you
expected.
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote in news:n7pkhh$lr7$1@dont-
email.me:
>
> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>
>
You're not stupid because you can't get a software program to work.
Sketchup does take a bit of getting used to, but you may find another
program does the same thing in a different way that works how you work.
Sketchup works on faces defined by lines. I often draw a 2D object then
use the Push-Pull Tool to make it 3D. Press the CTRL key to create a new
face as you're pushing/pulling the face. (You don't always want to create
a new face, for example you may be extending an object.)
If you think about the model as a series of lines, you're not working the
same way Sketchup does. It's kinda like Japanese vs Western style saws.
Both work well, but they work completely different ways.
Puckdropper
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:07:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/21/2016 11:54 AM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>>>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>>>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>>>> SketchUp to heart.
>>>>
>>>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>>>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>>>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>>>
>>>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>>>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>>>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>>>
>>>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>>>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>>>> been.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>>> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>>> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>>> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>>> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>>> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>
>> I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
>> to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
>> later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
>> again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
>> construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
>> measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
>> league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
>> without Sketchup.
>>
>
>Exactly and just to put that another way, The pieces that you are going
>to cut in the shop as parts of a project should also be drawn as
>separate objects and made into components "before" moving to the next
>part to be drawn and made into a component.
I often/usually do the opposite. I'll draw a rectangle on a board,
then "grow" (pull, actually) an intersecting board from that one. A
little adjustment, and I have a dado for the joint. This way, I don't
have to size the second object. It gets two dimensions from the first
object. Then, as I'm "growing" it, just type in its length, and it's
all done!
>
>Components can be edited at any time should you need to do that and
>copies of that component will also update.
Yes, one has to watch how one copies things. I used to start with a
2x4 and copy it all over, "cutting" it as necessary. The problem was
that all of my parts kept changing size. Oops!
>
>Then you can move the components in the drawing to form what you want to
>build.
>
>Do not draw every thing at once and or as a single unit.
I do it both ways.
On 1/22/2016 12:47 PM, Leon wrote:
> Good Point, and it is best to rename immediately. I keep the Intity Info
> window open for that purpose.
Cool in 2016 now, in that you can put the Entity info in the default
tray and anchor the tray off to the side.
Wasn't sure how I was going to like to presume moving my cheese like
that ... but I like!
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 1/21/2016 12:15 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup,
>> and Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so
>> given the accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot
>> contradict Karl's advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I
>> just could not seem to get it. I must be stupid, because I just
>> could not get my head wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>
> I would urge you to try again. For amateur woodworkers, it is an incredibly
> useful tool; it is the same for pros but would also be money in the bank.
>
> It may be that you were trying to bite off too much at once. If you haven't
> alteady done so, watch the four "getting started" videos...
> http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58
>
> Basically, one can draw anything with straight and curved lines. In
> woodworking, the straight ones are the more dominant and Sketchup has two
> tools for that: the "line tool" and the "rectangle tool". One suggestion I
> have for you involves scale: forget about it; it is important if you are
> drawing by hand but with Sketchup it has no bearing; what IS important is
> dimensions which are displayed in the lower right and which are pertinent to
> the current operation.
>
> For example, suppose you want to draw a line that is 16 7/8" long; as you
> move the cursor, the length drawn will be displayed at the lower right.
> When I first started using Sketchup I saw the dimension box and tried to
> click on it so I could enter what I wanted. Doesn't work...one just starts
> to draw, then types the length desired (without clicking on the box) and the
> line auromatically shoots out. Same with rectangles except one enters the
> length and width with a comma inbetween (16 7/8,22 1/4 eg, fractions or
> decimals, either or both). Same with many other operations.
>
> For depth/height, use the push/pull tool on a two dimensional object
>
> Leon has mentioned the necessity of components. He is 100% right. I had
> many frustrations before I capitulated to his advice. After selecting an
> object (spacebar = select) the letter "G" will open a make component box.
> Why do you want components?
> 1. As Leon said, they don't stick to other things
> 2. You can use it again without redrawing (in same or different drawing)
> 3. #2 Saves memory and speeds operation.
I'll add that by left clicking and dragging a box around what you want
to select you kill a bunch of birds with one stone. And reverse
dragging selects only those lines that are fully contained with in the
drag box.
On 1/20/2016 9:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>> SketchUp to heart.
>>
>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>
>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>
>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>> been.
>>
>
> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>
>
Mike have you use a drawing program before? If you are not well versed
it could increase the learning curve...
On 1/20/2016 1:50 AM, OFWW wrote:
> I have been playing around with the version 16, with free "make" after
> 30 days, what ever that is. I Just wish I had my old drafting program
> from Auto Cad, with its library and stuff. But they don't support it
> anymore, and it won't run properly on the new hardware and operating
> systems. It wasn't AC LT, but it was an autodesk product.
If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
SketchUp to heart.
A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
been.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 1/19/2016 6:39 PM, OFWW wrote:
Snip
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>>
> Nice.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
Thank you....
Here is what you did not see. Not the same job but the same procedure.
I have made about 80 front and back face frames for half as many
components of furniture this way in the last 4 years. This is a lap
joint reinforced with 2 Domino floating tenons. This is a joint on a
back face frame that forms the recess for the back panel.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082274/in/dateposted-public/
And the result..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133383/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133433/in/dateposted-public/
One of my favorite shots.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051049696/in/dateposted-public/
And another similar job, back face frame and side panel.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082454/in/dateposted-public/
>
> I have yet to make a joint as tight as that. With my new dado saw, and
> some new proper router bits I hope to do as well, or close to it. To
> me that was a thing of beauty.
>
Practice, practice, practice..... And a good set of plans developed on
Sketchup.
None of the above joints were done with a router bit, all with a stacked
dado set and the mortises were made with my Domino mortiser.
On 1/21/2016 11:54 AM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>>> SketchUp to heart.
>>>
>>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>>
>>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>>
>>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>>> been.
>>>
>>
>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>
> I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
> to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
> later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
> again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
> construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
> measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
> league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
> without Sketchup.
>
Exactly and just to put that another way, The pieces that you are going
to cut in the shop as parts of a project should also be drawn as
separate objects and made into components "before" moving to the next
part to be drawn and made into a component.
Components can be edited at any time should you need to do that and
copies of that component will also update.
Then you can move the components in the drawing to form what you want to
build.
Do not draw every thing at once and or as a single unit.
On 1/22/2016 11:57 AM, krw wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 08:36:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2016 8:15 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:07:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/21/2016 11:54 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>>>>>>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>>>>>>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>>>>>>> SketchUp to heart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>>>>>>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>>>>>>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>>>>>>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>>>>>>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>>>>>>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>>>>>>> been.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>>>>>> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>>>>>> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>>>>>> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>>>>>> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>>>>>> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
>>>>> to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
>>>>> later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
>>>>> again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
>>>>> construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
>>>>> measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
>>>>> league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
>>>>> without Sketchup.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly and just to put that another way, The pieces that you are going
>>>> to cut in the shop as parts of a project should also be drawn as
>>>> separate objects and made into components "before" moving to the next
>>>> part to be drawn and made into a component.
>>>
>>> I often/usually do the opposite. I'll draw a rectangle on a board,
>>> then "grow" (pull, actually) an intersecting board from that one. A
>>> little adjustment, and I have a dado for the joint. This way, I don't
>>> have to size the second object. It gets two dimensions from the first
>>> object. Then, as I'm "growing" it, just type in its length, and it's
>>> all done!
>>
>> Yes, once you become more accustomed to drawing with Sketchup and how
>> things interact, inferences, with each other.
>
> I learned to do it that way before I learned that you could type in
> the dimensions of a rectangle. It just made sense that I was building
> a model.
Something I discovered, if I drag a rectangle between two points I can
let the computer assume that length and then I can put in the other
dimension.
For instance I start the rectangle inferred to two points in the
drawing and then simply enter a comma and a distance then enter or
the first distance and a comma and enter.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Components can be edited at any time should you need to do that and
>>>> copies of that component will also update.
>>>
>>> Yes, one has to watch how one copies things. I used to start with a
>>> 2x4 and copy it all over, "cutting" it as necessary. The problem was
>>> that all of my parts kept changing size. Oops!
>>
>> Yeah, if you want to make a copy of a component unique, right click it
>> and make it unique. You can go with the automatically assigned new but
>> similar name or give it a new name.
>
> Sure, but how many 2x4x21_left_upper_widget names can you keep track
> of? ;-)
Good Point, and it is best to rename immediately. I keep the Intity Info
window open for that purpose. I give every thing a name but I also do
not have to keep up with a lot of that. I use CutList 4.0 to select and
import the named components into CutList Plus, the optimization program.
>>
>> And don't fot get flipping to get a mirror image when you copy
>> components, if that needs to be done. I know you probably know that.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Then you can move the components in the drawing to form what you want to
>>>> build.
>>>>
>>>> Do not draw every thing at once and or as a single unit.
>>>
>>> I do it both ways.
>>>
>> If I need to work withing a specific foot print I will often draw a box
>> to those dimensions, make that a component, and erase the surfaces.
>
> Hmm, I've never done that but it's a good idea.
>>
>> Then I begin drawing inside the outline of that box. Once my over all
>> model size is established and I am ready to draw in details I will
>> delete that foot print box or move it out of the way.
>>
> ...or just hide it. The outline can be used to line up this widget
> with the one occupying the space next to it.
>
On 1/21/2016 12:23 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Sketchup works on faces defined by lines.
Yep, a very important basic concept that needs to be grasped.
And taking that concept a step further, and one that should be even more
intuitive to the woodworker:
I like to think of SU as dealing with "faces and edges"... just as you
think of the faces and edges of a tubafour, or any board.
... or a table leg, or a brick, or a tile, or a dowel.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>
>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>> SketchUp to heart.
>>
>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>
>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>
>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>> been.
>>
>
>Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
without Sketchup.
On 1/19/16 2:18 PM, Leon wrote:
> I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
> built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
>
> This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
> use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
> am doing.
>
> This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
> and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
>
> Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain and
> varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
> I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
> tennon and grove jointery.
>
> In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The back
> FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
> joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
> panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
> tenons.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>
> The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>
> The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in each
> cabinet.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>
> A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
> rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
> grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
> piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>
Look at all that sloppy mess and glue squeeze-out! :-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/19/16 8:00 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/19/2016 5:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/19/16 2:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
>>> built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
>>>
>>> This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
>>> use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
>>> am doing.
>>>
>>> This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
>>> and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
>>>
>>> Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain and
>>> varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
>>> I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
>>> tennon and grove jointery.
>>>
>>> In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The back
>>> FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
>>> joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
>>> panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
>>> tenons.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>> The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>> The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in each
>>> cabinet.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>> A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
>>> rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
>>> grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
>>> piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>
>>
>> Look at all that sloppy mess and glue squeeze-out! :-p
>>
>>
> YEAY!!!!!
>
> Every since I discovered the Festool Cristal and or Granat I don't worry
> about the glue any more. The paper removes it and does not load up.
>
Huuuuhhhh..... I hate you.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Swingman wrote:
> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
> SketchUp to heart.
>
> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>
> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>
> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
> been.
>
Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup,
> and Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so
> given the accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot
> contradict Karl's advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I
> just could not seem to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could
> not get my head wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>
I found a "book" on SketchUp to make all the difference. Watching
video's, I missed key points. For those in the business, I cannot think
of a better way to make a contract with a customer than with a SU diagram.
Leon wrote:
>
> Mike have you use a drawing program before? If you are not well versed
> it could increase the learning curve...
No - SU was my first attempt at using one.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mike have you use a drawing program before? If you are not well versed
>>> it could increase the learning curve...
>>
>> No - SU was my first attempt at using one.
>>
>
> Well that can present a general understanding problem but if you want to
> learn the program I would be happy to answer any questions about how to do
> something and or why something reacts or works differently than you
> expected.
>
I appreciate that. Perhaps at some point not too far from now, I'll
download a new/fresh version of it and give it a try again. I have
always managed quite well without such a tool in the past, but I
recently undertook to build a new rolling stand for my SCMS and the
number of "redesigns" that I ran into on that project really pointed out
the value of mastering SU. Amazing the number of "Oh Shit" moments that
little project brought on. I guess I don't juggle stuff in my
imagination as well as I used to...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup,
> and Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so
> given the accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot
> contradict Karl's advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I
> just could not seem to get it. I must be stupid, because I just
> could not get my head wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
I would urge you to try again. For amateur woodworkers, it is an incredibly
useful tool; it is the same for pros but would also be money in the bank.
It may be that you were trying to bite off too much at once. If you haven't
alteady done so, watch the four "getting started" videos...
http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58
Basically, one can draw anything with straight and curved lines. In
woodworking, the straight ones are the more dominant and Sketchup has two
tools for that: the "line tool" and the "rectangle tool". One suggestion I
have for you involves scale: forget about it; it is important if you are
drawing by hand but with Sketchup it has no bearing; what IS important is
dimensions which are displayed in the lower right and which are pertinent to
the current operation.
For example, suppose you want to draw a line that is 16 7/8" long; as you
move the cursor, the length drawn will be displayed at the lower right.
When I first started using Sketchup I saw the dimension box and tried to
click on it so I could enter what I wanted. Doesn't work...one just starts
to draw, then types the length desired (without clicking on the box) and the
line auromatically shoots out. Same with rectangles except one enters the
length and width with a comma inbetween (16 7/8,22 1/4 eg, fractions or
decimals, either or both). Same with many other operations.
For depth/height, use the push/pull tool on a two dimensional object
Leon has mentioned the necessity of components. He is 100% right. I had
many frustrations before I capitulated to his advice. After selecting an
object (spacebar = select) the letter "G" will open a make component box.
Why do you want components?
1. As Leon said, they don't stick to other things
2. You can use it again without redrawing (in same or different drawing)
3. #2 Saves memory and speeds operation.
For example, if you were drawing a face frame, you could draw one stile and
one rail then copy them for the rest of the FF.
You could do the same for a ladder...one stringer, one rung, copy. You
could also draw one stringer, one rung, copy stringer then copy the one rung
making ALL all rungs at any interval in one shot (linear array).
Many of the program's features won't be readily apparent, takes using it to
discover them One can also Google for a "how to"; eg, "sketchup how to do
linear array".
Try it again, Mike...watch the videos, play with it, Google questions or ask
here.
Leon wrote:
> On 1/21/2016 12:15 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup,
>>> and Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so
>>> given the accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot
>>> contradict Karl's advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I
>>> just could not seem to get it. I must be stupid, because I just
>>> could not get my head wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>
>> I would urge you to try again. For amateur woodworkers, it is an
>> incredibly
>> useful tool; it is the same for pros but would also be money in the
>> bank.
>>
>> It may be that you were trying to bite off too much at once. If you
>> haven't
>> alteady done so, watch the four "getting started" videos...
>> http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58
>>
>> Basically, one can draw anything with straight and curved lines. In
>> woodworking, the straight ones are the more dominant and Sketchup has
>> two
>> tools for that: the "line tool" and the "rectangle tool". One
>> suggestion I
>> have for you involves scale: forget about it; it is important if you are
>> drawing by hand but with Sketchup it has no bearing; what IS
>> important is
>> dimensions which are displayed in the lower right and which are
>> pertinent to
>> the current operation.
>>
>> For example, suppose you want to draw a line that is 16 7/8" long; as
>> you
>> move the cursor, the length drawn will be displayed at the lower right.
>> When I first started using Sketchup I saw the dimension box and tried to
>> click on it so I could enter what I wanted. Doesn't work...one just
>> starts
>> to draw, then types the length desired (without clicking on the box)
>> and the
>> line auromatically shoots out. Same with rectangles except one
>> enters the
>> length and width with a comma inbetween (16 7/8,22 1/4 eg, fractions or
>> decimals, either or both). Same with many other operations.
>>
>> For depth/height, use the push/pull tool on a two dimensional object
>>
>> Leon has mentioned the necessity of components. He is 100% right. I
>> had
>> many frustrations before I capitulated to his advice. After
>> selecting an
>> object (spacebar = select) the letter "G" will open a make component
>> box.
>> Why do you want components?
>> 1. As Leon said, they don't stick to other things
>> 2. You can use it again without redrawing (in same or different
>> drawing)
>> 3. #2 Saves memory and speeds operation.
>
> I'll add that by left clicking and dragging a box around what you want
> to select you kill a bunch of birds with one stone. And reverse
> dragging selects only those lines that are fully contained with in the
> drag box.
>
Those are exactly the sort of things that are easier to learn from a
book than a video. With a video, you miss it.
On 1/21/2016 1:15 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> It may be that you were trying to bite off too much at once. If you haven't
> alteady done so, watch the four "getting started" videos...
> http://www.sketchup.com/learn/videos/58
....snip
Good post DadiOh, well said and captured a lot of start up issues people
have with SU.
A few things nobody seemed to mention for new users is to set the
program up correctly for woodworkers. There is a built in template for
for woodwork.
Also, before you start to draw, you want to have the correct "view"
opened. Views are iso, top, bottom, front, left, and right,. These
choices should be in your tool bar. You can put them there by right
clicking on tool bar and checking "view". When you start drawing, say a
table top, you want to start in the top view. If you are drawing a face
frame, you want the front view. All views look the same on a blank
screen, but in 3d, they are not. This makes it easy to get back to a
view you want. ISO shows an isometric (3D) view, don't draw in this
view at first, its easy to get things going in the wrong direction
(view). For example a ceiling drawn in the front view will be a wall:-)
Even if you are familiar with drawing from an iso view, it is a good
idea to check by clicking one of the views to insure correct orientation.
Here's a good video to get you started, but there are a ton of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1pMe_fXdoM
I like Jay Bates, he has a few good videos, even for hard core guys.
Another thing, you must always make components, so learn that, but just
recently I've figured out I generally don't need to give them cute
names. The app names them component 1, 2 etc and I used to waste time
renaming them. If you are not making a cut list, I found no need for
giving them cute names.
Here is another Bates video that is pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlnE7fgVx6k
He goes a little fast, but this one covers making a standard cabinet
all cabinet makers make. I suggest watching through once, then again
with SU opened and do each step, stopping the video at each step and
completing it yourself. This is how you need to watch all tutorials for
SU, there really are no shortcuts, shortcuts are how you get into
trouble and give up. I know, it took me a number of tries to get going.
Here is another good one, and it shows making a simple table and a
layout for cutting the parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eOBU2vtDvM&index=1&list=PLDv6QYctpfeGjx2DIjc2z-xP6OTJxMTUF
or
http://tinyurl.com/zg9j4mt
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 08:36:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/21/2016 8:15 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:07:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/21/2016 11:54 AM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:53:01 -0500, Mike Marlow
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want your woodworking projects to soar with regard to design,
>>>>>> cost effectiveness, as well precision fabrication - everything from
>>>>>> kitchens, to one off furniture projects - take Leon's advice on learning
>>>>>> SketchUp to heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A good part of both our successes in making a living woodworking has
>>>>>> come from being able to do meticulous, 3D planning, presentation of that
>>>>>> plan to clients, and our subsequent execution of the approved plan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AAMOF, Leon will say the same ... I doubt either of us ever walks out to
>>>>>> our respective shops to start any project, large or small, without first
>>>>>> detailing every component and step with SketchUp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We both previously used AutoCAD, and both switched over to SketchUp
>>>>>> about the same time ... amazing what a boost to the bottom line that has
>>>>>> been.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Both Karl and Leon have spoken about the value they see in Sketchup, and
>>>>> Karl has even provided me Setchup drawings for a project - so given the
>>>>> accomplishments of these two guys, I certainly cannot contradict Karl's
>>>>> advise. That said - as many times as I've tried, I just could not seem
>>>>> to get it. I must be stupid, because I just could not get my head
>>>>> wrapped around the whole Sketchup thing.
>>>>
>>>> I picked up on their advice several years ago. The first time I tried
>>>> to learn it, I failed miserably. I just didn't "get" it. A while
>>>> later, I think it was Leon said that it's a modeling tool. I tried it
>>>> again with the "modeling tool" (drawing pictures of 3D objects)
>>>> construct in mind, rather than "CAD" construct (making pieces with
>>>> measurements), and I picked it up easily. I'm certainly not in the
>>>> league with either Karl or Leon but I couldn't do much of anything
>>>> without Sketchup.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly and just to put that another way, The pieces that you are going
>>> to cut in the shop as parts of a project should also be drawn as
>>> separate objects and made into components "before" moving to the next
>>> part to be drawn and made into a component.
>>
>> I often/usually do the opposite. I'll draw a rectangle on a board,
>> then "grow" (pull, actually) an intersecting board from that one. A
>> little adjustment, and I have a dado for the joint. This way, I don't
>> have to size the second object. It gets two dimensions from the first
>> object. Then, as I'm "growing" it, just type in its length, and it's
>> all done!
>
>Yes, once you become more accustomed to drawing with Sketchup and how
>things interact, inferences, with each other.
I learned to do it that way before I learned that you could type in
the dimensions of a rectangle. It just made sense that I was building
a model.
>
>>>
>>> Components can be edited at any time should you need to do that and
>>> copies of that component will also update.
>>
>> Yes, one has to watch how one copies things. I used to start with a
>> 2x4 and copy it all over, "cutting" it as necessary. The problem was
>> that all of my parts kept changing size. Oops!
>
>Yeah, if you want to make a copy of a component unique, right click it
>and make it unique. You can go with the automatically assigned new but
>similar name or give it a new name.
Sure, but how many 2x4x21_left_upper_widget names can you keep track
of? ;-)
>
>And don't fot get flipping to get a mirror image when you copy
>components, if that needs to be done. I know you probably know that.
>
>
>>>
>>> Then you can move the components in the drawing to form what you want to
>>> build.
>>>
>>> Do not draw every thing at once and or as a single unit.
>>
>> I do it both ways.
>>
>If I need to work withing a specific foot print I will often draw a box
>to those dimensions, make that a component, and erase the surfaces.
Hmm, I've never done that but it's a good idea.
>
>Then I begin drawing inside the outline of that box. Once my over all
>model size is established and I am ready to draw in details I will
>delete that foot print box or move it out of the way.
>
...or just hide it. The outline can be used to line up this widget
with the one occupying the space next to it.
On 1/20/2016 1:50 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:16:18 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2016 6:39 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> Snip
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Nice.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> Thank you....
>>
>> Here is what you did not see. Not the same job but the same procedure.
>> I have made about 80 front and back face frames for half as many
>> components of furniture this way in the last 4 years. This is a lap
>> joint reinforced with 2 Domino floating tenons. This is a joint on a
>> back face frame that forms the recess for the back panel.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082274/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> And the result..
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133383/in/dateposted-public/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133433/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> One of my favorite shots.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051049696/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> And another similar job, back face frame and side panel.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082454/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>
> It's all a WOW to me, compound fittings and rails and stiles, almost a
> shame that they are mostly hidden from view. It was funny to hear my
> wife today, we pulled out several drawers from my dresser cabinet so
> we could move it, while I installed some return air grills in the
> master bedroom. She took a look at the cabinetry work on the inside
> and said WOW, all nice wood and fancy work, you could have knocked by
> socks off. Guess she is learning too. No metal anything on our bedroom
> furniture and as solid now as when we bought it 45+ some years ago.
I dry to limit my screws and or fasteners to leveling feet, drawer
slides, hinges, and pulls. Carcasses are typically all joinery and glue.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have yet to make a joint as tight as that. With my new dado blade kit, and
>>> some new proper router bits I hope to do as well, or close to it. To
>>> me that was a thing of beauty.
I typically will stack the dado set on the saw and apply the nut. With
the teeth on the two outer blades opposite each other I measure the
width using an inexpensive digital caliper. Then I use the caliper to
measure the wood or panel that will go into the resulting groove or
dado. I subtract the difference and add the appropriate shim. A caliper
measuring in decimal is most helpful since most shims are measured that
way too.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Practice, practice, practice..... And a good set of plans developed on
>> Sketchup.
>>
>> None of the above joints were done with a router bit, all with a stacked
>> dado set and the mortises were made with my Domino mortiser.
>>
>
> Well, I'm limited on the domino thing to a special version for the
> home hobbyist. But the practicing part I am doing now. Like a kid in a
> toy shop. :)
>
> I'm going to get a brand new FussTools handheld mortiser, it can be
> seen here,...
>
> http://www.stumpynubs.com/hand-held-mortiser.html
>
> ROTFL.
>
> Seriously, while that is out of my picture, especially for a one
> kitchen job, I will be following you all's advise regarding Dado's and
> grooves "?", half laps, etc. on the case work, and something solid for
> the ff's.
Dado, a groove across grain. Groove, a groove along the grain.
With kitchen cabinets you are pretty much dealing with a cabinet that
will remain in place until demolition and replacement way in the future.
You will be fine with constructing the face frames with pocket hole
screws and dado/groves to apply to the carcass. In fact I remodeled our
kitchen in our other home 25 years ago. Face frames were pocket holed
and the face frames were simply glued and finish nailed to the carcass.
The cabinets are probably just as sound today as they were then.
Having said that the cabinets were moved about 20 feet from the
construction location to the kitchen.
Swingman and I have worked together on about 6 kitchens. I typically
cut the panels, him the face frames, in two different locations. I
gring the panels to his shop and we build the cabinets. After assembly
we typically haul them to a storage unit until we are ready to install.
Then we load them up again and transport to the final location. The
cabinets always held up perfectly during all the moving.
Because furniture gets moved much more often I build the face frames
with stronger joinery and I add "back" face frames to double the
rigidity. My thoughts were that some day some one that knows what he is
looking at will look at the back of one of my pieces of furniture. I
did not want him to think a hack built it. :~)
>
> I am also going to take a picture of my dado with the old blades, new,
> but old and compare them with the new so you guys can see why I was so
> concerned about the sloppy bottoms.
It is good to have flat bottoms for better glue adhesion and fewer gaps.
>
> I have been playing around with the version 16, with free "make" after
> 30 days, what ever that is.
Sketch comes in two varieties, Make and Pro. For the last few years
when a new version comes out you typically download and install Make,
the free version, and you also get the Pro version for a 30 day
evaluation. After 30 days you can upgrade to Pro for about $600 or not.
Sketchup then disables some features exclusive to the Pro version if
you choose to not upgrade. A few of the Pro features are that ability
to make more styles of drawings, Layout, dynamic components, and a more
complete set of Solid Tools.
For woodworking for your self Make if just fine. If you were a
professional and handing out specific drawings to different contractors
the Layout feature that is in the Pro version would be very helpful.
The number "1" ONE thing to do with Sketchup is to draw each part as a
separate and editable small drawing and then turn it into a component.
Until you learn to make all separate parts of the project in the drawing
into a component you will continue to be frustrated, and do a lot of
head scratching. And then assemble the parts together in the drawing
like you would in the shop. The lines in components do not stick to
other lines in other components. Until your lines become a part of a
component they will all stick together and create all kinds of
headaches. ;~)
I Just wish I had my old drafting program
> from Auto Cad, with its library and stuff. But they don't support it
> anymore, and it won't run properly on the new hardware and operating
> systems. It wasn't AC LT, but it was an autodesk product.
>
I have used drawing programs since 1986 and used AutoCAD LT for about 10
years up until I finally switched permanently to Sketchup. I think
Swingman and I tried Sketchup two times and uninstalled it until finally
Google came out with a version that worked pretty good. I was also
tired of upgrading AutoCAD.
In all seriousness Sketchup will do what you need for it to do
concerning woodworking. There are countless tutorial videos and good
ones are accessed through the Sketchup web site.
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:16:18 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/19/2016 6:39 PM, OFWW wrote:
>Snip
>
>
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>>
>> Nice.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>
>Thank you....
>
>Here is what you did not see. Not the same job but the same procedure.
>I have made about 80 front and back face frames for half as many
>components of furniture this way in the last 4 years. This is a lap
>joint reinforced with 2 Domino floating tenons. This is a joint on a
>back face frame that forms the recess for the back panel.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082274/in/dateposted-public/
>
>And the result..
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133383/in/dateposted-public/
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051133433/in/dateposted-public/
>
>One of my favorite shots.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051049696/in/dateposted-public/
>
>And another similar job, back face frame and side panel.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082454/in/dateposted-public/
>
It's all a WOW to me, compound fittings and rails and stiles, almost a
shame that they are mostly hidden from view. It was funny to hear my
wife today, we pulled out several drawers from my dresser cabinet so
we could move it, while I installed some return air grills in the
master bedroom. She took a look at the cabinetry work on the inside
and said WOW, all nice wood and fancy work, you could have knocked by
socks off. Guess she is learning too. No metal anything on our bedroom
furniture and as solid now as when we bought it 45+ some years ago.
>
>
>>
>> I have yet to make a joint as tight as that. With my new dado blade kit, and
>> some new proper router bits I hope to do as well, or close to it. To
>> me that was a thing of beauty.
>>
>
>
>Practice, practice, practice..... And a good set of plans developed on
>Sketchup.
>
>None of the above joints were done with a router bit, all with a stacked
>dado set and the mortises were made with my Domino mortiser.
>
Well, I'm limited on the domino thing to a special version for the
home hobbyist. But the practicing part I am doing now. Like a kid in a
toy shop. :)
I'm going to get a brand new FussTools handheld mortiser, it can be
seen here,...
http://www.stumpynubs.com/hand-held-mortiser.html
ROTFL.
Seriously, while that is out of my picture, especially for a one
kitchen job, I will be following you all's advise regarding Dado's and
grooves "?", half laps, etc. on the case work, and something solid for
the ff's.
I am also going to take a picture of my dado with the old blades, new,
but old and compare them with the new so you guys can see why I was so
concerned about the sloppy bottoms.
I have been playing around with the version 16, with free "make" after
30 days, what ever that is. I Just wish I had my old drafting program
from Auto Cad, with its library and stuff. But they don't support it
anymore, and it won't run properly on the new hardware and operating
systems. It wasn't AC LT, but it was an autodesk product.
On 1/19/2016 8:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/19/16 8:00 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/19/2016 5:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/19/16 2:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
>>>> built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
>>>>
>>>> This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
>>>> use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
>>>> am doing.
>>>>
>>>> This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
>>>> and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain
>>>> and
>>>> varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
>>>> I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
>>>> tennon and grove jointery.
>>>>
>>>> In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The
>>>> back
>>>> FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
>>>> joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
>>>> panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
>>>> tenons.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in
>>>> each
>>>> cabinet.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
>>>> rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
>>>> grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
>>>> piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look at all that sloppy mess and glue squeeze-out! :-p
>>>
>>>
>> YEAY!!!!!
>>
>> Every since I discovered the Festool Cristal and or Granat I don't worry
>> about the glue any more. The paper removes it and does not load up.
>>
>
> Huuuuhhhh..... I hate you.
>
I know you don't mean that. LOL
I bet you could make that paper work on your sander.. Dust collection
is a must however to remove the debris and glue.
Seriously, I sanded the face frames with a piece of paper that I used on
my last project to remove a finish that came out bad. Yeah it removes
"dried" varnish without loading up too. ;~) I had to repeat that
statement to Swingman several weeks ago when I showed him the paper.
I'll try to do/remember to do a video showing the sanding process and
how quickly that goes.
On 1/21/2016 8:59 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike have you use a drawing program before? If you are not well versed
>>>> it could increase the learning curve...
>>>
>>> No - SU was my first attempt at using one.
>>>
>>
>> Well that can present a general understanding problem but if you want to
>> learn the program I would be happy to answer any questions about how
>> to do
>> something and or why something reacts or works differently than you
>> expected.
>>
>
> I appreciate that. Perhaps at some point not too far from now, I'll
> download a new/fresh version of it and give it a try again. I have
> always managed quite well without such a tool in the past, but I
> recently undertook to build a new rolling stand for my SCMS and the
> number of "redesigns" that I ran into on that project really pointed out
> the value of mastering SU. Amazing the number of "Oh Shit" moments that
> little project brought on. I guess I don't juggle stuff in my
> imagination as well as I used to...
>
>
Any time Mike. The beauty to most any drawing program is the ease in
editing and making changes. I typically present drawings to customers
to consider, they ask for changes and typically with in a few minutes
the changes are made.
One other thing, the drawing validates whether the project can be built
the way you want and or illustrates problems.
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:18:24 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>I am about a week and a half into my next job. Same customer that I
>built the mahogany TV/FP Mantle for in November.
>
>This job is 2 bedroom night tables with drawers. She requested that I
>use her left over marble counter tops sections soooooo that is what I
>am doing.
>
>This time red oak, this is a nice change as red oak is lighter weight
>and noticeably easier to cut than white oak. But staining is required.
>
>Anyway here are the pieces to the side panels. I prefer to prestain and
>varnish the inner edges that will show along with the panels.
>I taped off the sections that will receive glue. This is all stub
>tennon and grove jointery.
>
>In the back ground you can see the front and back face frames. The back
>FF's are assembled with lap joints reinforced with Domino's. I use lap
>joints to create a rabbeted recess on the back to receive the back
>panel. The front FF's are held together with glue and Domino floating
>tenons.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24191039780/in/dateposted-public/
>
>The sides will fit into the groves on the front and back FF's stiles.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
>
>The dry fit of the 4 panels. There will eventually be 3 drawers in each
>cabinet.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>
>A closer view of the inside. The bottom grooves on the sides bottom
>rails need to be completed on each end and will meet up with the bottom
> grooves on the bottom rails of the front and back FF's. A 3/4" thick
>piece of plywood will form the bottom and fit into all of those groves.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24378303692/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
Nice.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/24404190521/in/dateposted-public/
I have yet to make a joint as tight as that. With my new dado saw, and
some new proper router bits I hope to do as well, or close to it. To
me that was a thing of beauty.