Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
travesty.
http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
Leon wrote:
> "Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> > NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> > exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
> > about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
> > of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
> > come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
> >
> > I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
> > travesty.
> >
> > http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
> >
>
> You are very welcome to leave and try another country.
And you are very welcome to continue supporting the assholes who treat
our service men and women like disposable diapers, Leon. Hope it makes
you feel patriotic.
Well, you're right in that it has nothing to do with woodworking.
However, the OP had originally prefaced it with "O.T.", which was
removed somewhere along the line(You know who you are). I don't see why
"it is not supposed to be here". Tom
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>
> >
> > He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what
> > freedom is
> > for.
> >
> > But you "love it or leave it" types will never realize that.
>
> But it has nothing to do with woodwork, so it is not supposed to be here. He
> should take his soapbox elsewhere. Freedom, yes, manners, no.
I do find good manners to be very important, but a certain tolerance
for percieved ill-mannered people (such as ignoring them) can go a long
way towards your sanity. Tom
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well, you're right in that it has nothing to do with woodworking.
> > However, the OP had originally prefaced it with "O.T.", which was
> > removed somewhere along the line(You know who you are). I don't see why
> > "it is not supposed to be here". Tom
>
> Because, like all OT posts is, it is OT. The newsgroup is rec.woodworking.
> There are plenty of political forums that welcome such postings. The more
> tolerant we become of OT material, the more OT stuff that will be posted,
> diluting the intended reason for existence of the NG. Not a matter of agree
> or disagree, it comes down to manners. You'd not be welcome to visit my
> home if the only reason you come is to discuss your brand of politics or
> religion, etc. Same here.
tom wrote:
> Well, you're right in that it has nothing to do with woodworking.
> However, the OP had originally prefaced it with "O.T.", which was
> removed somewhere along the line(You know who you are). I don't see why
> "it is not supposed to be here". Tom
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >>
> > >
> > > He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what
> > > freedom is
> > > for.
> > >
> > > But you "love it or leave it" types will never realize that.
> >
> > But it has nothing to do with woodwork, so it is not supposed to be here. He
> > should take his soapbox elsewhere. Freedom, yes, manners, no.
Its not supposed to be here because this is rec.woodworking.
If you MUST respond to idiots like that in rec.woodworking please at
least
have the courtesy to set followups appropriately.
Some topics cannot be discussed on USENET without a
flamewar ensuing. Exactly _why_ it is preferable to some, to
have that flame war take place in a newsgroups which, in the
absence of off-topic postings would be relatively placid should
be obviious.
--
FF
Leon wrote:
>> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
>> travesty.
>>
> You are very welcome to leave and try another country.
>
He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what freedom is
for.
But you "love it or leave it" types will never realize that.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Morris Dovey wrote:
>
> Not to change the subject or anything; but whatever led you to believe
> that the materials of war were conducive to good health?
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
>
>
To get even further off topic, Morris, I note you're from Iowa. My wife's
family is as well, and they're right wing to the max. Since you usually come
down on the center/liberal side of the fence (as do I), I wonder if you're
lonely in Iowa?
I did convert my wife to reality, but it took a few years :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Dhakala (in [email protected])
said:
| Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
| NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that
| deliberately exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow
| its own rules about informing/training them to minimize the risks;
| and fights a war of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition
| against veterans who come home with horrifying disabilities that
| could have been avoided.
|
| I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
| travesty.
Not to change the subject or anything; but whatever led you to believe
that the materials of war were conducive to good health?
It is and has always been a perilous business - and the features you
describe have changed little over thousands of years. Could it be that
/you/ have been in denial?
The VA sometimes does drop the ball - and sometimes they get it right.
It's an organization of human beings struggling to do the right thing
while the career bureaucrats who manage the organization struggle to
fund those things they hope will make things work better.
Hmm... Would you prefer /no/ VA? What positive course of action (that
means: other than bitching and whining) are you taking to improve the
situation?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Larry Blanchard (in [email protected]) said:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|
||
|| Not to change the subject or anything; but whatever led you to
|| believe that the materials of war were conducive to good health?
|
| To get even further off topic, Morris, I note you're from Iowa. My
| wife's family is as well, and they're right wing to the max. Since
| you usually come down on the center/liberal side of the fence (as
| do I), I wonder if you're lonely in Iowa?
Lonely? Not particularly - but I'm willing to listen to anyone and be
convinced to change my mind when warranted. If labels are important,
then I think I'd prefer to be labeled "pragmatic" - I have a strong
preference for things that work really well.
I'm not (originally) from Iowa. I was born in Georgia of parents from
Illinois and Michigan, was transplanted briefly to northern Indiana,
grew up in the eastern province of Saudi Arabia, went to boarding
school and college back in Indiana, did computer systems design and
development all over the place - and finally ended up in Iowa.
Somewhere in there I took a couple of years off to wear sloppy green,
learn another language, and jump out of perfectly good flying
machines.
<soapbox>
FWIW, I particularly despise when labels like "conservative" and
"liberal" are used in a pejoritive sense to polarize, alienate, and
foster fear and distrust - and I particularly value courage, justice,
and truth. When those three are present then labels don't much matter.
</soapbox>
Probably more information than you wanted...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
> about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
> of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
> come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
>
> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
> travesty.
>
> http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
>
You are very welcome to leave and try another country.
>>
>>>Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
>>>NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
>>>exposes our kids to lethal substances;
>>
Your actually right. Our wounded and affected are treated like shit.
but ..
it still doesnt belong here.
but ...
The only thing I can say in your defense .. is .. sometimes when you
belong/hangout/lurk at any one group .. you .. feel a bond with the
other guys that hang out there, so when something is bothering you
that may be O.T. .. its horribly temping to bounce it off of these
other guys, that you concider your friends.
mike
"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And you are very welcome to continue supporting the assholes who treat
> our service men and women like disposable diapers, Leon. Hope it makes
> you feel patriotic.
>
Nothing in this world comes free including your freedom. I personally am
proud of those that are defending out country. I do not go around preaching
that I think that they are being treated like trash. The does no one any
good. United we stand or Divided we fall.
Well its on the internet so it must be true and gullible is NOT in the
dictionary. Go do something productive and leave us alone.
cm
"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
> about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
> of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
> come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
>
> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
> travesty.
>
> http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
>
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 14 Aug 2006 07:43:24 -0700, "Dhakala" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
>>NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
>>exposes our kids to lethal substances;
>
> That is just plain funny.
>
I assume this means that all future conflicts will be resolved with
hypoallergenic pillow fights.
I agree and disagree with parts of your post and with the opinions of the
ones who answered it. There are many actions taken by the Government that I
disapprove of, so every year or so I go and rebel at the polls. In between
time I harass my elected officials to change what I don't like. I will say
that if you don't like the way things are going do something about it, write
the newspapers, write a blog, get together with likeminded people and
protest, call your government officials, run for office, campaign for some
one you like. I spent time being "expendable" to give you the right as did
many others here. Use what we and maybe yourself gave to you.
"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
> about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
> of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
> come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
>
> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
> travesty.
>
> http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
>
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>
> He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what
> freedom is
> for.
>
> But you "love it or leave it" types will never realize that.
But it has nothing to do with woodwork, so it is not supposed to be here. He
should take his soapbox elsewhere. Freedom, yes, manners, no.
"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> exposes our kids to lethal substances; fails to follow its own rules
> about informing/training them to minimize the risks; and fights a war
> of denial, propaganda, red tape, and attrition against veterans who
> come home with horrifying disabilities that could have been avoided.
>
> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
> travesty.
>
> http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71585-0.html
>
What he believes to be the cause of his ailments doesn't match with any
known radiation poisoning nor any heavy metal toxin reaction that I know
of. To state a cause without hard evidence is irrational and
irresponsible.
Having said that, treating the military service personnel like a disposable
expendable resource is what the military does and has done since the
beginning. When you join you are told that you are expendable.
This is not to say that we don't have a responsibility to our military
people, we do. The medical attention that military personnel
get is poor and has been poor and that issue should be addressed.
If you are ashamed then i suggest you go somewhere where you won't be
ashamed of the Government the country it is in. Antartica comes to mind.
Well stated Morris, thank you.
Rick
> <soapbox>
> FWIW, I particularly despise when labels like "conservative" and
> "liberal" are used in a pejoritive sense to polarize, alienate, and
> foster fear and distrust - and I particularly value courage, justice,
> and truth. When those three are present then labels don't much matter.
> </soapbox>
"tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, you're right in that it has nothing to do with woodworking.
> However, the OP had originally prefaced it with "O.T.", which was
> removed somewhere along the line(You know who you are). I don't see why
> "it is not supposed to be here". Tom
Because, like all OT posts is, it is OT. The newsgroup is rec.woodworking.
There are plenty of political forums that welcome such postings. The more
tolerant we become of OT material, the more OT stuff that will be posted,
diluting the intended reason for existence of the NG. Not a matter of agree
or disagree, it comes down to manners. You'd not be welcome to visit my
home if the only reason you come is to discuss your brand of politics or
religion, etc. Same here.
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> On 14 Aug 2006 07:43:24 -0700, "Dhakala
> wrote:
>
> >Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
> >NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
> >exposes our kids to lethal substances;
>
> That is just plain funny.
Thank gawd ... I thought I was the only one ROTFL after reading that. Those
tracers coming at you on your first hot LZ were, indeed, an indication that
the Uncle Sam was really gonna "expose you to lethal substances" (along with
the realization that those round craters you saw from the air, when first
flying into Saigon, weren't swimming pools)
Sometimes you just have to take the bad along with the good ... and
gullibility can be truly amazing.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/13/06
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 14 Aug 2006 07:43:24 -0700, "Dhakala" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
>>NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
>>exposes our kids to lethal substances;
>
> That is just plain funny.
He has an uncanny ability of pointing out the obvious.
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:05 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> United we stand or Divided we fall.
This is a very true statement.
>
> It doesn't? I'd like to think that if we're proud of the guys
> defending our freedom, we aught to stick up for them and make sure
> they're getting what they need to do the job,
I totally agree here as well both sides need to get off the fricken fence
and give our troops the weapons/tools they need. Set the childish politics
aside and support our men and women in harms way and beyond.
> and show some
> appreciation for them when they arrive home.
Definately, they deserve that whole heartedly, I can only imagine how they
feel coming home to the flag burning, and graveside marches trashing the
fallen.
>
> Rather than trying to hit a price-point like a friggin' WalMart so
> that the administration can tell up how cheap it is to go adventuring,
I agree here as well but I have to think about something here. When the
governement does spend money on war time items they get chastised by the
lets hugs and not fight groups. Unfortunately we are fighting so they need
the weapons/tools to adiquitly do thier job safely as possible. (This
cannot be denied by anyone I have sen the marches on all news channels)
> I'd like to see our boys get the weapons, armor, and medical care they
> need. In case you've forgotten the way our country is supposed to
> work (and sometimes even does,) we elect the people who make most of
> these decisions- if you clam up and stand in line, they think things
> are going fine. If you tell them to knock it off, sometimes they
> listen. So as a matter of pride when it comes to the troops, it seems
> the better part of valor to give the policitians hell, and get the
> guys under fire the things they need, rather than assuming that
> helping them out is unpatriotic because Fox News said so.
I was going to leave this one alone however I will state that I have never
heard anyone that is employed by Fox News state that we should not give our
troops what they need to do thier job, quite the contrary. I don't live on
that channel I watch other news as well, mostly local... a CBS channel. I
firmly believe that though we may not want to be there, we are and we need
to finish what we started. Fully armed and protected for our soldiers
sakes.
>
> I don't want to see them in the mess we've helped create in Iraq, but
> if they have to be there,
I would rather see some of these people making 150k to 200+k a year take
some cuts first and use the federal income tax as it was designed to be
used. It was implemented to support the war effort only, not pay people to
sit on thier buts and get welfare. Answer to the allegid void in jobs
because of the immigration enforcement put these people who live off the
welfare system that are perfectly able to work to work for thier money in
the fields and such. I have moved pipe and worked in the potato sheds and
tobacco fields when I was a kid I was proud of my work. Imagine the amount
of money that could go to the war efforts.
> I'd rather pay a little more tax to make
> sure EVERY SINGLE Military volunteer and Guardsman have the equipment
> they need. Because I "support our troops"- not the administration and
> their flunkies who can't get it through thier heads that they can't
> have their tax cuts and feed the troops, too.
They can't do more then the other side allows either, its not just Bush and
the Republicans its all of them... They all need to pull thier collective
heads out and hear that poverbial pop when thier ears clear. I am not for
either side I am for this country. As my father who fought in WWII was for
this country.
> When those troops come
> home shell-shocked and exposed to chemical weapons, I'm willing to pay
> a bit more out of my pocket to make sure they can get civilian job
> training, a home of their own, and all the medical care they need to
> recover from anything they've undergone in our name. It's the least
> we can do for them.
I agree here as well.
>
Ok, I did it. I stepped into the crap do your worst :-)
Just remember opinions are like a@#holes everyone has one and this was mine.
Al
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:19:05 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Tom Watson" wrote in message
>> On 14 Aug 2006 07:43:24 -0700, "Dhakala
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
>> >NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
>> >exposes our kids to lethal substances;
>>
>> That is just plain funny.
>
>Thank gawd ... I thought I was the only one ROTFL after reading that. Those
>tracers coming at you on your first hot LZ were, indeed, an indication that
>the Uncle Sam was really gonna "expose you to lethal substances" (along with
>the realization that those round craters you saw from the air, when first
>flying into Saigon, weren't swimming pools)
>
>Sometimes you just have to take the bad along with the good ... and
>gullibility can be truly amazing.
Now, you ain't seriously implying that Victor Charles and his NVR
kinfolk had any intention of exposing our boys to "lethal substances',
is you?
I would think that the damned air was lethal enough, even to a
Lousianne boy.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:05 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Dhakala" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> And you are very welcome to continue supporting the assholes who treat
>> our service men and women like disposable diapers, Leon. Hope it makes
>> you feel patriotic.
>>
>
>Nothing in this world comes free including your freedom. I personally am
>proud of those that are defending out country. I do not go around preaching
>that I think that they are being treated like trash. The does no one any
>good. United we stand or Divided we fall.
It doesn't? I'd like to think that if we're proud of the guys
defending our freedom, we aught to stick up for them and make sure
they're getting what they need to do the job, and show some
appreciation for them when they arrive home.
Rather than trying to hit a price-point like a friggin' WalMart so
that the administration can tell up how cheap it is to go adventuring,
I'd like to see our boys get the weapons, armor, and medical care they
need. In case you've forgotten the way our country is supposed to
work (and sometimes even does,) we elect the people who make most of
these decisions- if you clam up and stand in line, they think things
are going fine. If you tell them to knock it off, sometimes they
listen. So as a matter of pride when it comes to the troops, it seems
the better part of valor to give the policitians hell, and get the
guys under fire the things they need, rather than assuming that
helping them out is unpatriotic because Fox News said so.
I don't want to see them in the mess we've helped create in Iraq, but
if they have to be there, I'd rather pay a little more tax to make
sure EVERY SINGLE Military volunteer and Guardsman have the equipment
they need. Because I "support our troops"- not the administration and
their flunkies who can't get it through thier heads that they can't
have their tax cuts and feed the troops, too. When those troops come
home shell-shocked and exposed to chemical weapons, I'm willing to pay
a bit more out of my pocket to make sure they can get civilian job
training, a home of their own, and all the medical care they need to
recover from anything they've undergone in our name. It's the least
we can do for them- so take your senseless jingoism and go piss up a
rope.
On 14 Aug 2006 07:43:24 -0700, "Dhakala" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Even setting aside all moral and political considerations, I could
>NEVER recommend a career with a military organization that deliberately
>exposes our kids to lethal substances;
That is just plain funny.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Why do any of you even respond to the original poster of this crapp. Ignore
the BASTARD. You are falling into his trap and giving him an orgasm when he
reads your replies. I've got him in my kill file.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
>>>> travesty.
>>>>
>>
>>> You are very welcome to leave and try another country.
>>>
>>
>> He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what
>> freedom is
>> for.
>
>
> Unfortunately he wants his freedom for free. That is not how this world
> work. Freedom comes at a high price.
>
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>> I'm ashamed of the VA and the entire government that enables this
>>> travesty.
>>>
>
>> You are very welcome to leave and try another country.
>>
>
> He's also welcome to stay here and try to change things - that what
> freedom is
> for.
Unfortunately he wants his freedom for free. That is not how this world
work. Freedom comes at a high price.