Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
(I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which basically
said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them on a drill
press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
On 9/4/2014 9:27 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/4/14, 5:57 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/4/2014 5:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 9/3/2014 8:50 PM, Leon wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>>>>
>>>> then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004
>>>> TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywo
>>>> rds=forstner+bit
>>>>
>>>> If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>>>> surprised by how handy they will come in.
>>>>
>>>>> and and the hole does not have to be
>>>>> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
>>>>> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
>>>>> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
>>>>> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one
>>>>> and practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to go
>>> wrong.
>>
>> Replace the dull one with a quality bit and you may never have to
>> resharpen it. I have a set that is 30+ years old and the 1-3/8" bit I
>> always used to drill holes for Euro hinges, hundreds, still works pretty
>> well.
>>
>
> Plus you get a nice burnished, pre-stained surface from the burning bit.
> :-p
>
>
No, still no burning, but it is important to spin these sized bits <400 RPM
On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:45:28 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
>
>
>I drilled the 3/4" dog holes in my 2+" thick bench top with a big plunge router and appropriate bit with 1/2" shank. The big 3 hp Porter Cable plunge router.
Basically, you use what you've got. If you have more than one
option, you use the best you have. If you have no options, you buy
what you will get the most use out of or what you otherwise would have
a hard time getting permission from SWMBO to buy!!!!
On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 01:28:59 GMT, xxxx <[email protected]>
wrote:
>John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> "tdacon" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to
>>> rock the bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple
>>> squares on the bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a
>>> helper sight the verticals in both planes from time to time to keep
>>> you on track.
>>
>> Can't say I've really experienced that problem with
>> Forstner bits - usually once the body of the bit is
>> completely in the wood, it tracks true without any
>> particular effort.
>>
>> What is handy, when using a Forstner in a hand drill
>> instead of a drill press, is to use the drill press
>> to drill a hole thru a block of scrap, and clamp that
>> to the workpiece, to guide the bit getting started.
>>
>> John
>
>Maybe I missed this in all the previous replies. How about an ol' fashioned
>human powered brace and bit? No burning up motors. Real time error
>correction, speed control, and you can still listen to your shop music
>without an electrically powered tool buzzing away. :)
A hand powered post drill would be better than a brace and bit.
Easier to keep thiings square.
On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:46:19 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 9/3/14, 7:18 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> Maybe I misunderstand. I've done this dozens of times and it's as
>>> stable as drilling the first hole. You don't really even need a
>>> clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't perfectly flat. The
>>> advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger hole is still
>>> perfectly centered on the smaller one. I've done the same thing
>>> with hole saws and spade bits.
>>>
>>> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
>>> :-)
>>
>> I vote with the others. Doing what you say will still allow the bit
>> to flex, and any runout or slop in the quill of the drill press will
>> amplify the problems. No way it will be as stable as drilling the
>> first hole.
>>
>> Drill the hole with the final size and be done with it.
>
>1st- if you have flex in a FORSTNER bit, you have some serious issues.
>Have you seen the shank on those things? The do not flex, period.
>
>2nd- I have a $49 Ryobi that probably has the most potential for runout
>for a drill press and I've done this technique dozens of times with the
>same exact accuracy as any other hole.
>
>I'm beginning to think the people who doubt this don't actually have
>drill presses.
I think I'd use the final size drill to drill a shallow hole - 1/8"
deep would be enough, then drill a through hole with the smaller
drill. Finally, go back to the full-size drill, and use the shallow
hole to position it correctly.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver BC
peterbb (at) telus.net
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
On 9/3/2014 10:24 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "Peter Bennett" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>
>> I think I'd use the final size drill to drill a shallow hole - 1/8"
>> deep would be enough, then drill a through hole with the smaller
>> drill. Finally, go back to the full-size drill, and use the shallow
>> hole to position it correctly.
>
>
> I could buy that. I just do not see the need. A Forstner bit is going
> to trim the hole to the size each time it is withdrawn for chip removal
> and goes back in again. What is to be gained by changing sizes, then?
If not using a DP a smaller diameter hole will be much easier to drill.
Not as much pressure needed to push the bit through. Not all
forstners are created the same, especially the inexpensive ones. The
less material that the bigger bit has to remove the less effort and heat
build up.
>
> And yes, I have forstner bits starting at 1/4" and going up to 2
> 3/4"ths, I think. I still say that using my drill press or yours, it
> will chatter when starting a hole without wood on the center of the bit.
As an alternate to a forstner, you can do this job with a good
1" bi-metal hole saw mounted in a drill press.
Saw to 1" depth, then back out saw and reverse the maple,
then insert 1/4" pilot drill in pilot hole and drill 1" deep or
until it breaks thru.
Any miss match will be inside the hole hidden from view.
Make sure you use a high quality bi-metal hole saw and
a drill press.
A cheap saw will guarantee the maple will leave burn edges.
Take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Have fun.
Lew
"-MIKE-" wrote:
>>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can
>>> clamp
>>> the
>>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>>> hole.
----------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
----------------------------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:
> You quoted what I wrote, so I assume you read it.
>
> "If you're using a drill press and can clamp the stock"
>
> Clamping the stock to a drill press table negates the need for any
> pilot tip.
-----------------------------------------------
You also lost your center, so you are screwed.
Time to plug and start over.
Lew
Lew
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:
> Maybe I misunderstand.
> I've done this dozens of times and it's as stable as drilling the
> first hole.
> You don't really even need a clamp but it helps if your Forstners
> aren't perfectly flat. The advantage of clamping is being assured
> the bigger hole is still perfectly centered on the smaller one.
> I've done the same thing with hole saws and spade bits.
>
> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the quill of your drill press provides enough stroke to allow
changing
bits without moving the piece, you are good to go; however, if not you
introduce another chance for error.
Since we are only talking about a 1" dia. hole in a 2" piece of stock,
why fool around with it?
Make once pass as fast as possible with a forstner to minimize heat
build up and get on with it.
Lew
On 9/3/2014 8:50 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/3/2014 9:38 PM, WW wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits
>>> leave a rough cut, and they
>>> often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though,
>>> back the wood up with a
>>> piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
>>
>> The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
>> the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
>>
>
> If you don't have a forstner bit
then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywords=forstner+bit
If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
surprised by how handy they will come in.
> and and the hole does not have to be
> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the better
> solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with that. Spades
> are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one and practice on a
> scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 9/3/2014 8:50 PM, Leon wrote
>>
>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>
> then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004
> TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywo
> rds=forstner+bit
>
> If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
> surprised by how handy they will come in.
>
>> and and the hole does not have to be
>> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
>> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
>> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
>> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one
>> and practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
>
>
I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to go
wrong.
I've had the set a couple years now, and have successfully dulled the
3/8" bit and the others probably aren't as sharp as they used to be, but
for the hobbiest woodworker such a set will be usable for a long time.
(Longer if you learn how to sharpen them.)
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
Just Wondering wrote:
>> then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004
>> TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywo
>> rds=forstner+bit
>>
>> If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>> surprised by how handy they will come in.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Puckdropper" wrote:
> I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to
> go
> wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, if you used the money to light cigars you
would get more bang for your buck than buying either
of the above.
This set was $89 when I bought it, now $145.
http://tinyurl.com/p728l29
Best money I ever spent for cutting tools back then.
Probably still is today.
Add a quality set of brad point drill bits to cover 1/2"
and smaller and your done.
You only cry once.
Lew
Posted on 09/02/14
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
> As an alternate to a forstner, you can do this job with a good
> 1" bi-metal hole saw mounted in a drill press.
>
> Saw to 1" depth, then back out saw and reverse the maple,
> then insert 1/4" pilot drill in pilot hole and drill 1" deep or
> until it breaks thru.
>
> Any miss match will be inside the hole hidden from view.
>
> Make sure you use a high quality bi-metal hole saw and
> a drill press.
>
> A cheap saw will guarantee the maple will leave burn edges.
>
> Take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
On 9/4/2014 2:10 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/4/2014 1:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Add a quality set of brad point drill bits to cover 1/2"
>> and smaller and your done.
>
> http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
>
>
Yeah buddy! Colt 5 Star brad point bits may very well be as good as a
Forstner bit in 1/4" and larger sizes. I know that in 1/4" and larger
you don't need a backer board to prevent tear out on the back side of a
of the hole. It is some times hard to tell which side the hole started
vs. penetrated.
On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Have you never used a drill press?
> You can switch bits without moving the stock.
> The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
> I've done this dozens of times.
Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy to
drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a well
setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you describe
won't work when the need arises.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 9/3/2014 9:38 PM, WW wrote:
>
>
> "Edward A. Falk" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits
>> leave a rough cut, and they
>> often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though,
>> back the wood up with a
>> piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
>
> The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
> the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
>
If you don't have a forstner bit and and the hole does not have to be
stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the better
solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with that. Spades
are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one and practice on a
scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
On 9/4/2014 5:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 9/3/2014 8:50 PM, Leon wrote
>>>
>>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>>
>> then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004
>> TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywo
>> rds=forstner+bit
>>
>> If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>> surprised by how handy they will come in.
>>
>>> and and the hole does not have to be
>>> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
>>> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
>>> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
>>> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one
>>> and practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
>>
>>
>
> I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to go
> wrong.
Replace the dull one with a quality bit and you may never have to
resharpen it. I have a set that is 30+ years old and the 1-3/8" bit I
always used to drill holes for Euro hinges, hundreds, still works pretty
well.
On 9/3/2014 10:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/3/2014 9:38 PM, WW wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits
>>>> leave a rough cut, and they
>>>> often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though,
>>>> back the wood up with a
>>>> piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
>>>
>>> The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
>>> the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
>>>
>>
>> If you don't have a forstner bit and and the hole does not have to be
>> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
>> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
>> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
>> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one and
>> practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
>
> As has been suggested, clamp a "backing board" before you drill with the
> spade bit and you'll like your result better.
Alternatively drill 3/8" shy of all the way through and use the hole
made by the point coming through on the back side to indicate where to
drill from that side.
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits leave a
>rough cut, and they
>often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though, back the
>wood up with a
>piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.co
What ever you use clamp the wood tight to the platform (drill press table)
Those large bits will catch and spin the wood WW
"xxxx" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Maybe I missed this in all the previous replies. How about an ol' fashioned
>human powered brace and bit? No burning up motors. Real time error
>correction, speed control, and you can still listen to your shop music
>without an electrically powered tool buzzing away. :)
You forgot to mention it also has flesh sensing technology... ;~)
On 9/4/2014 3:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/4/2014 2:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/4/2014 2:10 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>>> http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah buddy! Colt 5 Star brad point bits may very well be as good as a
>> Forstner bit in 1/4" and larger sizes. I know that in 1/4" and larger
>> you don't need a backer board to prevent tear out on the back side of a
>> of the hole. It is some times hard to tell which side the hole started
>> vs. penetrated.
>
> Yeah, and you are the one who hooked/turned me on them ... by giving me
> one.
>
> Thanks again! :)
>
LOL, did you buy more? I was at Cornerstone hardware several months ago
and loaded up on a bunch of them from their clearance table.
I am real picky on what I use them on.
On 9/4/2014 7:00 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 14:10:36 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/4/2014 1:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Add a quality set of brad point drill bits to cover 1/2"
>>> and smaller and your done.
>>
>> http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
>
> I've bought a number of them from Woodcraft but they no longer carry
> them. :-(
>
Might be why he did not mention Woodcraft. ;~)
[email protected] (Edward A. Falk) wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
A Forstner bit in a drill press would be my first, last, and only choice. Spade bits are
carpentry tools, not cabinetmaking tools.
> (I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which basically
> said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them on a drill
> press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
Yeah, that's not safe.
>
> I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits leave a rough cut, and they
often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though, back the wood up with a
piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
"tdacon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to
> rock the bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple
> squares on the bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a
> helper sight the verticals in both planes from time to time to keep
> you on track.
Can't say I've really experienced that problem with
Forstner bits - usually once the body of the bit is
completely in the wood, it tracks true without any
particular effort.
What is handy, when using a Forstner in a hand drill
instead of a drill press, is to use the drill press
to drill a hole thru a block of scrap, and clamp that
to the workpiece, to guide the bit getting started.
John
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> "tdacon" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to
>> rock the bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple
>> squares on the bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a
>> helper sight the verticals in both planes from time to time to keep
>> you on track.
>
> Can't say I've really experienced that problem with
> Forstner bits - usually once the body of the bit is
> completely in the wood, it tracks true without any
> particular effort.
>
> What is handy, when using a Forstner in a hand drill
> instead of a drill press, is to use the drill press
> to drill a hole thru a block of scrap, and clamp that
> to the workpiece, to guide the bit getting started.
>
> John
Maybe I missed this in all the previous replies. How about an ol' fashioned
human powered brace and bit? No burning up motors. Real time error
correction, speed control, and you can still listen to your shop music
without an electrically powered tool buzzing away. :)
xxxx <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>> What is handy, when using a Forstner in a hand drill
>> instead of a drill press, is to use the drill press
>> to drill a hole thru a block of scrap, and clamp that
>> to the workpiece, to guide the bit getting started.
> Maybe I missed this in all the previous replies. How about an ol'
> fashioned human powered brace and bit? No burning up motors. Real time
> error correction, speed control, and you can still listen to your shop
> music without an electrically powered tool buzzing away. :)
Hmm, I'm not sure how well a forstner bit would work in
a brace. Might have to try it some time. I kinda suspect
you'd need a bit with a lead screw to use in a brace.
Anyway, the trick with using a block of scrap for a
guide works with a brace, too.
John
On 9/3/2014 9:55 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 9/3/14, 8:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Have you never used a drill press?
>>> You can switch bits without moving the stock.
>>> The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
>>> I've done this dozens of times.
>>
>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy to
>> drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a well
>> setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you describe
>> won't work when the need arises.
>>
>
> You could also make some cheap templates from masonite that can be
> indexed to your workpiece. Drill a small (1/8" or less) pilot through
> all the templates in a stack. Every time you switch to a larger bit,
> toss on a new template to re-establish the center.
Yep.
Do something similar to setup my 35mm bit for drilling various overly
Euro hinge holes in cabinet doors:
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 02:10:20 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Edward A.
Falk) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>>
>>then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>>http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywords=forstner+bit
>
>Heh; that looks like a decent set. Porter Cable is usually a good name.
>
>I've been buying Forstner bits one by one as I need them. It would
>have been more economical to buy this set, but it's a bit late for
>that now.
For drill bits, I'm of the school of "buy a cheap set and replace them
as needed with good ones". Some will never be used. Router bits are
the opposite, IMO. Buy really good ones, as they're needed. The sets
always include some that I'll never use. Drill bits are a lot cheaper
than router bit, too.
>>
>>If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>>surprised by how handy they will come in.
>
>Yeah, I like them a lot. I'll be using Forstners for this project.
I have an use them but I'm always afraid of burning them, so only use
them when needed.
On 9/4/2014 9:27 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> Plus you get a nice burnished, pre-stained surface from the burning bit.
> :-p
A sure way to detect/find your way to a construction site during trim
out, _with your eyes closed_ , is to follow your nose, using the smell
generated by a dull router bit being used by an onsite "craftsman".
;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 4:04:17 PM UTC-4, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>
>
>
> (I was looking at auger bits,
Hole saw. Clear the sawdust out frequently, it's just as fast as an auger
and similarly accurate.
Wouldn't use a Forstner unless it was a stopped hole, or some precision
requirement on diameter (as, for doweling).
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 20:04:17 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Edward A.
Falk) wrote:
>Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>
>(I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which basically
>said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them on a drill
>press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
>
>I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
My preference would be strong for the forstner.
On 9/4/2014 2:57 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/4/2014 2:10 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
>>
> Yeah buddy! Colt 5 Star brad point bits may very well be as good as a
> Forstner bit in 1/4" and larger sizes. I know that in 1/4" and larger
> you don't need a backer board to prevent tear out on the back side of a
> of the hole. It is some times hard to tell which side the hole started
> vs. penetrated.
Yeah, and you are the one who hooked/turned me on them ... by giving me one.
Thanks again! :)
-
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 9/4/2014 1:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Add a quality set of brad point drill bits to cover 1/2"
> and smaller and your done.
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 16:26:14 -0700, "tdacon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>
>On mine, 2 1/4" maple, I used a 1/2" drive drill motor and a sharp Forstner
>bit, and the holes all came out just fine. Here are some tips:
>
>As someone else has said, back it up with a clamped piece of scrap or it
>will blow out the underside. A contrasting wood color will tell you right
>away when you're through.
>
>When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to rock the
>bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple squares on the
>bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a helper sight the verticals
>in both planes from time to time to keep you on track.
>
>The rim of a Forstner bit heats up quickly, and can get damned hot, so drive
>the bit a half-inch or so, then back it out of the hole still spinning to
>let it cool off, then peck another half-inch or so, and so on until you're
>through. Or just set it down once in a while to let it cool off. The general
>rule on Forstners is to drill with a good speed of advance into the hole, so
>as to get through without heating the tool too much, but I defy you to horse
>a 1" Forstner through hard maple as fast as you'd need to go.
>
>If your Forstner bit is dull, you're doomed.
>
>Tom
>
A power feed drill press makes it a WHOLE lot easier- 5/8" and 1 HP
motor. It's only 15Km from home, out at the Hangar, when I need it.
"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
Either will work, spade is faster, Forstener smoother.
You could also use a router. No, you don't need a 1" bit...drill - for
example - a 3/4" hole then use a 1/2" router bit using the shank to guide
on the hole edges. Bit too short? Do one side, flip and repeat from other
side.
> (I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which
> basically
> said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them on a drill
> press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
The ride isn't very wild, just short...an auger bit will pull out the
chuck.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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Edward A. Falk wrote:
> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>
> (I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which
> basically said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them
> on a drill press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
>
> I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
I'd use a forstner bit. Much cleaner hole.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
On mine, 2 1/4" maple, I used a 1/2" drive drill motor and a sharp Forstner
bit, and the holes all came out just fine. Here are some tips:
As someone else has said, back it up with a clamped piece of scrap or it
will blow out the underside. A contrasting wood color will tell you right
away when you're through.
When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to rock the
bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple squares on the
bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a helper sight the verticals
in both planes from time to time to keep you on track.
The rim of a Forstner bit heats up quickly, and can get damned hot, so drive
the bit a half-inch or so, then back it out of the hole still spinning to
let it cool off, then peck another half-inch or so, and so on until you're
through. Or just set it down once in a while to let it cool off. The general
rule on Forstners is to drill with a good speed of advance into the hole, so
as to get through without heating the tool too much, but I defy you to horse
a 1" Forstner through hard maple as fast as you'd need to go.
If your Forstner bit is dull, you're doomed.
Tom
In article <[email protected]>, dadiOH <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>The ride isn't very wild, just short...an auger bit will pull out the
>chuck.
I lol'd. OK, the auger bits stay in the drawer.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>,
Scott Lurndal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Brace and bit?
That was one of my first thoughts, but I suck at drilling
truly perpindicular holes, which these need to be.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
OK, thanks everybody. The majority says Forstner and
so that's what I'll go with.
In article <[email protected]>,
tdacon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>As someone else has said, back it up with a clamped piece of scrap or it
>will blow out the underside. A contrasting wood color will tell you right
>away when you're through.
I'll just set the drill press to stop at the right point.
One trick I use sometimes is to drive through until the tip
comes through the other side, then flip the board over and
finish the hole from the other direction. This puts all the
tear-out inside the shaft of the hole.
This works better with spade bits though; I think for this
project, I'll just back up the wood as folks have suggested.
>When you're driving the bit by hand, it's almost impossible not to rock the
>bit off vertical as the hole gets deeper; set up a couple squares on the
>bench top at 90 degrees to each other, and have a helper sight the verticals
>in both planes from time to time to keep you on track.
Yeah, I'll definitely use a drill press for this.
>The rim of a Forstner bit heats up quickly, and can get damned hot, so drive
>the bit a half-inch or so, then back it out of the hole still spinning to
>let it cool off, then peck another half-inch or so, and so on until you're
>through. Or just set it down once in a while to let it cool off. The general
>rule on Forstners is to drill with a good speed of advance into the hole, so
>as to get through without heating the tool too much, but I defy you to horse
>a 1" Forstner through hard maple as fast as you'd need to go.
Yep. I'm resigned to this taking a long time.
>If your Forstner bit is dull, you're doomed.
Yep again.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits leave a rough cut, and they
>often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though, back the wood up with a
>piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
On 9/2/14, 3:04 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit?
> Forstner?
>
> (I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which
> basically said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them
> on a drill press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
>
> I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
>
Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can clamp the
stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1' hole.
One thing that makes sloppy holes in hardwoods is the release of tension
in the wood as it's being cut. This can cause burning and an oblong
hole after the wood inside the hole has released and warped/swelled a bit.
Drilling the smaller hole first allows the burning to happen on the
smaller, unused hole. When you go to cut the finished hole, the chips
have an escape route and there will be less friction. Also, if you're
*really* concerned with the perfect hole, let the wood sit overnight
after drilling the smaller hole to allow the freshly cut outside surface
(inside the hole) to acclimate.
Cut the finish hole after that and it will be perfect.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/2/14, 8:34 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can clamp
>> the
>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>> hole.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
>
> Lew
>
>
You quoted what I wrote, so I assume you read it.
"If you're using a drill press and can clamp the stock"
Clamping the stock to a drill press table negates the need for any pilot
tip.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can clamp
>> the
>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>> hole.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
>
Agreed
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 9/2/14, 8:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>>
>>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can clamp
>>> the
>>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>>> hole.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
>>
>
> Agreed
>
Maybe I misunderstand.
I've done this dozens of times and it's as stable as drilling the first
hole.
You don't really even need a clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't
perfectly flat. The advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger
hole is still perfectly centered on the smaller one.
I've done the same thing with hole saws and spade bits.
Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you? :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/2/14, 9:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>>>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can
>>>> clamp
>>>> the
>>>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>>>> hole.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> You quoted what I wrote, so I assume you read it.
>>
>> "If you're using a drill press and can clamp the stock"
>>
>> Clamping the stock to a drill press table negates the need for any
>> pilot tip.
> -----------------------------------------------
> You also lost your center, so you are screwed.
>
> Time to plug and start over.
>
> Lew
>
Have you never used a drill press?
You can switch bits without moving the stock.
The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
I've done this dozens of times.
I hope whatever you're drinking tastes good. :-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
>
> Maybe I misunderstand.
> I've done this dozens of times and it's as stable as drilling the
> first hole.
> You don't really even need a clamp but it helps if your Forstners
> aren't perfectly flat. The advantage of clamping is being assured
> the bigger hole is still perfectly centered on the smaller one.
> I've done the same thing with hole saws and spade bits.
>
> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you? :-)
I think I misunderstood you initially Mike.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Maybe I misunderstand.
> I've done this dozens of times and it's as stable as drilling the first
> hole.
> You don't really even need a clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't
> perfectly flat. The advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger
> hole is still perfectly centered on the smaller one.
> I've done the same thing with hole saws and spade bits.
>
> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you? :-)
I vote with the others. Doing what you say will still allow the bit to
flex, and any runout or slop in the quill of the drill press will amplify
the problems. No way it will be as stable as drilling the first hole.
Drill the hole with the final size and be done with it.
--
Jim in NC
---
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On 9/3/14, 7:18 AM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Maybe I misunderstand. I've done this dozens of times and it's as
>> stable as drilling the first hole. You don't really even need a
>> clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't perfectly flat. The
>> advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger hole is still
>> perfectly centered on the smaller one. I've done the same thing
>> with hole saws and spade bits.
>>
>> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
>> :-)
>
> I vote with the others. Doing what you say will still allow the bit
> to flex, and any runout or slop in the quill of the drill press will
> amplify the problems. No way it will be as stable as drilling the
> first hole.
>
> Drill the hole with the final size and be done with it.
1st- if you have flex in a FORSTNER bit, you have some serious issues.
Have you seen the shank on those things? The do not flex, period.
2nd- I have a $49 Ryobi that probably has the most potential for runout
for a drill press and I've done this technique dozens of times with the
same exact accuracy as any other hole.
I'm beginning to think the people who doubt this don't actually have
drill presses.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/3/14, 9:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Have you never used a drill press? You can switch bits without
>> moving the stock. The stock can be clamped to the table negating
>> the need for the pilot. I've done this dozens of times.
>
> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy
> to drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a
> well setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you
> describe won't work when the need arises.
>
I was waiting for some who actually owns and uses a drill press to chime
in. :-)
As I've stated too many time already, I've done this technique with
Forstner bits, spade bits and hole saws with great results. Spade bits
are the only ones I was cautious about using, but they worked fine as
well.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/3/14, 8:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Have you never used a drill press?
>> You can switch bits without moving the stock.
>> The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
>> I've done this dozens of times.
>
> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy to
> drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a well
> setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you describe
> won't work when the need arises.
>
You could also make some cheap templates from masonite that can be
indexed to your workpiece. Drill a small (1/8" or less) pilot through
all the templates in a stack. Every time you switch to a larger bit,
toss on a new template to re-establish the center.
-BR
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---
On 9/3/14, 9:55 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 9/3/14, 8:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Have you never used a drill press?
>>> You can switch bits without moving the stock.
>>> The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
>>> I've done this dozens of times.
>>
>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy to
>> drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a well
>> setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you describe
>> won't work when the need arises.
>>
>
> You could also make some cheap templates from masonite that can be
> indexed to your workpiece. Drill a small (1/8" or less) pilot through
> all the templates in a stack. Every time you switch to a larger bit,
> toss on a new template to re-establish the center.
>
> -BR
That's very similar to how I enlarged a hole in tile using a diamond
hole saw.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/3/14, 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/3/2014 9:55 AM, Brewster wrote:
>> On 9/3/14, 8:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you never used a drill press?
>>>> You can switch bits without moving the stock.
>>>> The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the pilot.
>>>> I've done this dozens of times.
>>>
>>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy to
>>> drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a well
>>> setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you describe
>>> won't work when the need arises.
>>>
>>
>> You could also make some cheap templates from masonite that can be
>> indexed to your workpiece. Drill a small (1/8" or less) pilot through
>> all the templates in a stack. Every time you switch to a larger bit,
>> toss on a new template to re-establish the center.
>
> Yep.
>
> Do something similar to setup my 35mm bit for drilling various overly
> Euro hinge holes in cabinet doors:
>
But how in the world do you keep that bit from flexing? :-D
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/3/14, 12:11 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:46:19 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/3/14, 7:18 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I misunderstand. I've done this dozens of times and it's as
>>>> stable as drilling the first hole. You don't really even need a
>>>> clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't perfectly flat. The
>>>> advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger hole is still
>>>> perfectly centered on the smaller one. I've done the same thing
>>>> with hole saws and spade bits.
>>>>
>>>> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I vote with the others. Doing what you say will still allow the bit
>>> to flex, and any runout or slop in the quill of the drill press will
>>> amplify the problems. No way it will be as stable as drilling the
>>> first hole.
>>>
>>> Drill the hole with the final size and be done with it.
>>
>> 1st- if you have flex in a FORSTNER bit, you have some serious issues.
>> Have you seen the shank on those things? The do not flex, period.
>>
>> 2nd- I have a $49 Ryobi that probably has the most potential for runout
>> for a drill press and I've done this technique dozens of times with the
>> same exact accuracy as any other hole.
>>
>> I'm beginning to think the people who doubt this don't actually have
>> drill presses.
>
> I think I'd use the final size drill to drill a shallow hole - 1/8"
> deep would be enough, then drill a through hole with the smaller
> drill. Finally, go back to the full-size drill, and use the shallow
> hole to position it correctly.
>
That's a great idea for those without a drill press and/or way to clamp
to the press' table.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 9/3/14, 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:
> > On 9/3/2014 9:55 AM, Brewster wrote:
> > > On 9/3/14, 8:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
> > > > On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Have you never used a drill press?
> > > > > You can switch bits without moving the stock.
> > > > > The stock can be clamped to the table negating the need for the
> > > > > pilot. I've done this dozens of times.
> > > >
> > > > Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can
> > > > buy
> > > > to drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and
> > > > using
> > > > a well setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what
> > > > you describe won't work when the need arises.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You could also make some cheap templates from masonite that can be
> > > indexed to your workpiece. Drill a small (1/8" or less) pilot
> > > through
> > > all the templates in a stack. Every time you switch to a larger bit,
> > > toss on a new template to re-establish the center.
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > Do something similar to setup my 35mm bit for drilling various overly
> > Euro hinge holes in cabinet doors:
> >
>
> But how in the world do you keep that bit from flexing? :-D
JB Weld :) Plus some duct tape.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 9/3/14, 3:41 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> Maybe I misunderstand. I've done this dozens of times and it's as
>> stable as drilling the first hole. You don't really even need a
>> clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't perfectly flat. The
>> advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger hole is still
>> perfectly centered on the smaller one. I've done the same thing
>> with hole saws and spade bits.
>>
>> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> If the quill of your drill press provides enough stroke to allow
> changing bits without moving the piece, you are good to go; however,
> if not you introduce another chance for error.
>
> Since we are only talking about a 1" dia. hole in a 2" piece of
> stock, why fool around with it?
>
> Make once pass as fast as possible with a forstner to minimize heat
> build up and get on with it.
>
> Lew
Just give it up already. I offered advice that works and is a good
technique.
You keep trying (even in this post) to come up with bullshit reasons why
you think something I've done successfully and with great result dozens
of time won't work.
Just stop. It's embarrassing.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
> On 9/3/2014 9:38 PM, WW wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> You'd like a smooth finish, then. Definitely Forstner. Spade bits
>>> leave a rough cut, and they
>>> often don't really spin true. Whichever you decide to use, though,
>>> back the wood up with a
>>> piece of scrap to minimize tearout.
>>
>> The finish doesn't really have to be smooth; these are just
>> the holes that the guide rods and main screw pass through.
>>
>
> If you don't have a forstner bit and and the hole does not have to be
> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one and
> practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
As has been suggested, clamp a "backing board" before you drill with the
spade bit and you'll like your result better.
"Peter Bennett" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I think I'd use the final size drill to drill a shallow hole - 1/8"
> deep would be enough, then drill a through hole with the smaller
> drill. Finally, go back to the full-size drill, and use the shallow
> hole to position it correctly.
I could buy that. I just do not see the need. A Forstner bit is going to
trim the hole to the size each time it is withdrawn for chip removal and
goes back in again. What is to be gained by changing sizes, then?
And yes, I have forstner bits starting at 1/4" and going up to 2 3/4"ths, I
think. I still say that using my drill press or yours, it will chatter when
starting a hole without wood on the center of the bit.
--
Jim in NC
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"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote
> Make once pass as fast as possible with a forstner to minimize heat
> build up and get on with it.
+1
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On 9/3/14, 10:24 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "Peter Bennett" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>
>> I think I'd use the final size drill to drill a shallow hole - 1/8"
>> deep would be enough, then drill a through hole with the smaller
>> drill. Finally, go back to the full-size drill, and use the
>> shallow hole to position it correctly.
>
>
> I could buy that. I just do not see the need. A Forstner bit is
> going to trim the hole to the size each time it is withdrawn for
> chip removal and goes back in again. What is to be gained by
> changing sizes, then?
>
> And yes, I have forstner bits starting at 1/4" and going up to 2
> 3/4"ths, I think. I still say that using my drill press or yours,
> it will chatter when starting a hole without wood on the center of
> the bit.
If the stock is held securely, ie: clamped, it won't chatter unless
there's something wrong with the tools or set-up. If the table is not
90 degrees to the bit, I could see this happening. However, I have
started plenty of holes at angles where the pilot section of the
Forstner bit did not engage, just the cutting edge, and the entry was
clean and smooth.
I wish people wouldn't jump to conclusions in here instead of speaking
from experience.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/4/14, 5:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to
> go wrong.
>
> I've had the set a couple years now, and have successfully dulled
> the 3/8" bit and the others probably aren't as sharp as they used to
> be, but for the hobbiest woodworker such a set will be usable for a
> long time. (Longer if you learn how to sharpen them.)
>
> Puckdropper
>
If they have the smooth cutting edges they are surprisingly easy to
sharpen with small files. I've sharpened the serrated edged bits, too,
but not nearly as well.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/4/14, 5:57 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/4/2014 5:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 9/3/2014 8:50 PM, Leon wrote
>>>>
>>>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>>>
>>> then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>>> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004
>>> TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywo
>>> rds=forstner+bit
>>>
>>> If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>>> surprised by how handy they will come in.
>>>
>>>> and and the hole does not have to be
>>>> stellar a spade bit will do just fine assuming you don't have many to
>>>> drill. If the fit is going to be snug, the forstner might be the
>>>> better solution. If 1" leaves you plenty of room I would go with
>>>> that. Spades are cheap compared to forstners, buy a new sharp one
>>>> and practice on a scrap. Like the result, and you are good to go.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've got the smaller Forstner set from Lowes. For $20, it's hard to go
>> wrong.
>
> Replace the dull one with a quality bit and you may never have to
> resharpen it. I have a set that is 30+ years old and the 1-3/8" bit I
> always used to drill holes for Euro hinges, hundreds, still works pretty
> well.
>
Plus you get a nice burnished, pre-stained surface from the burning bit.
:-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
In article <[email protected]>,
Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> If you don't have a forstner bit
>
>then get one. Get a set. 14 forstner bits for $49.97 on Amazon.
>http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PC1014-Forstner-Bit-14-Piece/dp/B004TSZEB4/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-2&keywords=forstner+bit
Heh; that looks like a decent set. Porter Cable is usually a good name.
I've been buying Forstner bits one by one as I need them. It would
have been more economical to buy this set, but it's a bit late for
that now.
>
>If you haven't used forstner bits before, you will be pleasantly
>surprised by how handy they will come in.
Yeah, I like them a lot. I'll be using Forstners for this project.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>"-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>>>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can
>>>> clamp
>>>> the
>>>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>>>> hole.
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
>----------------------------------------------------------
>"-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> You quoted what I wrote, so I assume you read it.
>>
>> "If you're using a drill press and can clamp the stock"
>>
>> Clamping the stock to a drill press table negates the need for any
>> pilot tip.
>-----------------------------------------------
>You also lost your center, so you are screwed.
Not necessarily.
Here's my plan:
Make test holes on a piece of 1/4" hardboard or plywood.
Fit the test piece over the vise to ensure that it fits properly.
Now use the test piece as the centering guide to drill the maple.
Theoretically, with Forstner bits, you don't need a center if you
have a template.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>,
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 9/3/14, 9:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> Have you never used a drill press? You can switch bits without
>>> moving the stock. The stock can be clamped to the table negating
>>> the need for the pilot. I've done this dozens of times.
>>
>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy
>> to drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a
>> well setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you
>> describe won't work when the need arises.
>>
>
>I was waiting for some who actually owns and uses a drill press to chime
>in. :-)
>
>As I've stated too many time already, I've done this technique with
>Forstner bits, spade bits and hole saws with great results. Spade bits
>are the only ones I was cautious about using, but they worked fine as
>well.
So it makes sense to drill progressively bigger holes with Forstner
bits rather than just do it all in one cut?
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 9/3/14, 9:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you never used a drill press? You can switch bits without
>>>> moving the stock. The stock can be clamped to the table negating
>>>> the need for the pilot. I've done this dozens of times.
>>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy
>>> to drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a
>>> well setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you
>>> describe won't work when the need arises.
>>>
>> I was waiting for some who actually owns and uses a drill press to chime
>> in. :-)
>>
>> As I've stated too many time already, I've done this technique with
>> Forstner bits, spade bits and hole saws with great results. Spade bits
>> are the only ones I was cautious about using, but they worked fine as
>> well.
> So it makes sense to drill progressively bigger holes with Forstner
> bits rather than just do it all in one cut?
Just by intuition, you would like your last cut to be the "least
invasive", I think.
On 9/5/14, 9:17 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>>
>>>>> Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can
>>>>> clamp
>>>>> the
>>>>> stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1'
>>>>> hole.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>>> And there goes my pilot for the forstner bit.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>>
>>> You quoted what I wrote, so I assume you read it.
>>>
>>> "If you're using a drill press and can clamp the stock"
>>>
>>> Clamping the stock to a drill press table negates the need for any
>>> pilot tip.
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> You also lost your center, so you are screwed.
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> Here's my plan:
>
> Make test holes on a piece of 1/4" hardboard or plywood.
>
> Fit the test piece over the vise to ensure that it fits properly.
>
> Now use the test piece as the centering guide to drill the maple.
>
> Theoretically, with Forstner bits, you don't need a center if you
> have a template.....
... or a drill press.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/5/14, 9:18 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 9/3/14, 9:16 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 9/2/2014 9:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you never used a drill press? You can switch bits without
>>>> moving the stock. The stock can be clamped to the table negating
>>>> the need for the pilot. I've done this dozens of times.
>>>
>>> Having done it without a problem, using the best bits money can buy
>>> to drill holes in expensive projects, keeping them sharp, and using a
>>> well setup, well maintained drill press, there is no reason what you
>>> describe won't work when the need arises.
>>>
>>
>> I was waiting for some who actually owns and uses a drill press to chime
>> in. :-)
>>
>> As I've stated too many time already, I've done this technique with
>> Forstner bits, spade bits and hole saws with great results. Spade bits
>> are the only ones I was cautious about using, but they worked fine as
>> well.
>
> So it makes sense to drill progressively bigger holes with Forstner
> bits rather than just do it all in one cut?
>
No. My original post.....
"Forstner bit, for sure. If you're using a drill press and can clamp the
stock, drill a 3/4 or 7/8 hole first, then drill the finished 1' hole.
One thing that makes sloppy holes in hardwoods is the release of tension
in the wood as it's being cut. This can cause burning and an oblong
hole after the wood inside the hole has released and warped/swelled a bit.
Drilling the smaller hole first allows the burning to happen on the
smaller, unused hole. When you go to cut the finished hole, the chips
have an escape route and there will be less friction. Also, if you're
*really* concerned with the perfect hole, let the wood sit overnight
after drilling the smaller hole to allow the freshly cut outside surface
(inside the hole) to acclimate.
Cut the finish hole after that and it will be perfect."
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
<[email protected]> wrote
> I have an use them but I'm always afraid of burning them, so only use
> them when needed.
I use them for everything. When they get dull a dremmel tool with a cutoff
wheel sharpens the larger sizes very nicely. Triangle files of different
sizes for the small ones and not too dull larger ones.
--
Jim in NC
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"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote > Not necessarily.
>
> Here's my plan:
>
> Make test holes on a piece of 1/4" hardboard or plywood.
>
> Fit the test piece over the vise to ensure that it fits properly.
>
> Now use the test piece as the centering guide to drill the maple..
>
> Theoretically, with Forstner bits, you don't need a center if you
> have a template.
True, that works great and I have been forced to do that many times, but
why, when you don't have to.
The original talk was about drilling a smaller hole with a forstner, then
opening it up to the final size with the final forstner.
When using a twist bit, the wood is compressed outwards, a certain small
amount. Drilling undersized and then going to the final size is a viable
strategy. The wood is cut across the width of the hole, and forced upwards
along the flutes, which both contribute to the compression.
But a forstner cuts the outer edge of the hole while there is still wood on
both sides of the cut, so the wood is not compressed to either side of the
cut. The inside of the hole is then removed, and the chips brought out
through generous relief openings in the bit. There is no compression of the
hole. So why drill the same hole two times? I don't know why you would do
it on purpose.
--
Jim in NC
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On 9/6/14, 5:23 AM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote > Not necessarily.
>>
>> Here's my plan:
>>
>> Make test holes on a piece of 1/4" hardboard or plywood.
>>
>> Fit the test piece over the vise to ensure that it fits properly.
>>
>> Now use the test piece as the centering guide to drill the maple..
>>
>> Theoretically, with Forstner bits, you don't need a center if you
>> have a template.
>
> True, that works great and I have been forced to do that many times,
> but why, when you don't have to.
>
> The original talk was about drilling a smaller hole with a forstner,
> then opening it up to the final size with the final forstner.
>
> When using a twist bit, the wood is compressed outwards, a certain
> small amount. Drilling undersized and then going to the final size
> is a viable strategy. The wood is cut across the width of the hole,
> and forced upwards along the flutes, which both contribute to the
> compression.
>
> But a forstner cuts the outer edge of the hole while there is still
> wood on both sides of the cut, so the wood is not compressed to
> either side of the cut. The inside of the hole is then removed, and
> the chips brought out through generous relief openings in the bit.
> There is no compression of the hole. So why drill the same hole two
> times? I don't know why you would do it on purpose.
I think it was my original reply that brought up drilling a smaller
hole, then the finished hole. It wasn't for compression of the waste,
it was for stress relief in the wood, and for the slight warping of the
wood after being cut. Similar to when people will turn bowls on a lathe
from non-segmented stock.
It is common practice to turn the bowl down to a rough size, bigger than
the finish size, then let the rough bowl warp from the stress relief and
relative humidity change, then turn it to the finish size and shape.
I brought up the technique for anyone would need a perfect hole, not
necessarily for the OPs intended purpose. This is not something that
needs done for 99% of what we do as woodworkers, but if you're doing a
project where a large hole needs to stay round, say for some sort of jig
or other thing in which a dowel will be inserted and removed from a
hole, it can really help keep the hole truly round.
Try it sometime. Cut a 2" hole in a large piece of wood, then measure
it with accurate digital calipers. Take it inside the house overnight
or for a few days. Measure it again and in many cases it will be
slightly oblong.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:19:38 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 4:04:17 PM UTC-4, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>>
>>
>>
>> (I was looking at auger bits,
>
>Hole saw. Clear the sawdust out frequently, it's just as fast as an auger
>and similarly accurate.
>
>Wouldn't use a Forstner unless it was a stopped hole, or some precision
>requirement on diameter (as, for doweling).
I'd use the forsner if I had it and didn't have a hole saw. I'd use
the hole saw if I had it and didn't have a forstner. I'd use a 3/32
pilot drill and an auger or spade - coming in from the back a short
distance first, then turning the work over and finishing from the
front. A speedbore spade would be my choi auger - but the drill press
would not be optional.
On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 14:10:36 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 9/4/2014 1:07 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Add a quality set of brad point drill bits to cover 1/2"
>> and smaller and your done.
>
>http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/COLT-5-Star-Brad-Point-Bits-Inches-HSS-Germany/products/725/
I've bought a number of them from Woodcraft but they no longer carry
them. :-(
[email protected] (Edward A. Falk) writes:
>Anybody have a "best practices" recommendation? Spade bit? Forstner?
>
>(I was looking at auger bits, but then I read the reviews which basically
>said stand back and prepare for a wild ride if you put them on a drill
>press and try to drill through hardwood with them.)
>
>I'm making the faces for a bench vise.
Brace and bit?
On 9/3/2014 9:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/3/14, 7:18 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> Maybe I misunderstand. I've done this dozens of times and it's as
>>> stable as drilling the first hole. You don't really even need a
>>> clamp but it helps if your Forstners aren't perfectly flat. The
>>> advantage of clamping is being assured the bigger hole is still
>>> perfectly centered on the smaller one. I've done the same thing
>>> with hole saws and spade bits.
>>>
>>> Are you guys misunderstanding me or am I misunderstanding you?
>>> :-)
>>
>> I vote with the others. Doing what you say will still allow the bit
>> to flex, and any runout or slop in the quill of the drill press will
>> amplify the problems. No way it will be as stable as drilling the
>> first hole.
>>
>> Drill the hole with the final size and be done with it.
>
> 1st- if you have flex in a FORSTNER bit, you have some serious issues.
> Have you seen the shank on those things? The do not flex, period.
>
> 2nd- I have a $49 Ryobi that probably has the most potential for runout
> for a drill press and I've done this technique dozens of times with the
> same exact accuracy as any other hole.
>
> I'm beginning to think the people who doubt this don't actually have
> drill presses.
>
>
As usuaul there will be many responders that have never done this but
are voicing their thought on how they would do this with what they have
personally.
On 9/6/2014 5:23 AM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote > Not necessarily.
>>
>> Here's my plan:
>>
>> Make test holes on a piece of 1/4" hardboard or plywood.
>>
>> Fit the test piece over the vise to ensure that it fits properly.
>>
>> Now use the test piece as the centering guide to drill the maple..
>>
>> Theoretically, with Forstner bits, you don't need a center if you
>> have a template.
>
> True, that works great and I have been forced to do that many times, but
> why, when you don't have to.
>
> The original talk was about drilling a smaller hole with a forstner,
> then opening it up to the final size with the final forstner.
>
> When using a twist bit, the wood is compressed outwards, a certain small
> amount. Drilling undersized and then going to the final size is a
> viable strategy. The wood is cut across the width of the hole, and
> forced upwards along the flutes, which both contribute to the compression.
>
> But a forstner cuts the outer edge of the hole while there is still wood
> on both sides of the cut, so the wood is not compressed to either side
> of the cut. The inside of the hole is then removed, and the chips
> brought out through generous relief openings in the bit. There is no
> compression of the hole. So why drill the same hole two times? I don't
> know why you would do it on purpose.
Forstner bits remove a lot of material and typically require more effort
from you to feed the bit. If the final size forstner is not having to
remove all of the material at once it is easier to feed.