"David Nebenzahl" wrote:
> You mean to say that you don't think hand puppets are the /sine qua
> non/ of late-night TV humor?
They have nothing to do with the format.
Interviews are cut off simply to meet a predetermined time allotment.
Most of the skits are just plain boring, especially the shtick with
the camera.
Lew
"Robatoy" wrote:
> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
He can't.
> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
> altogether.
Neither one of them can hold a candle to what Carson laid down for
them to follow.
> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>
> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
IMHO, Fallon is a sleeper in this little play.
Lew
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:06:19 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jan 14, 5:42 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Caught Letterman as he roasted NBC execs last night.
>>
>> Reminded me of a customer who once said, "That cat went up that hill
>> and sooner or later he's going to come down that hill, and when he
>> does, I'll be waiting."
>>
>> It has taken 18 years, but last night Letterman "was waiting", and
>> relishing every moment of it.
>>
>> Lew
>
>Zucker will screw Conan.. for at least the length of his non-
>competition agreement...and I'm pretty sure there is one of those.
AIUI, it's not so much as a no-compete clause as his contract expires
in 3-1/2 years. However, they have to pay his contract.
"Leon" wrote
>
> Perhaps if NBC whould get rid of those cheesy farkin cheap ass reality
> shows they would do better.
>
Well, that is the thing. Two years ago, NBC decided that it was a brave new
world and they were gonna produce programming on the cheap and make lots of
money. That is the reasoning behind moving leno to the 10:00 o'clock time
slot.
Their affiliates revolted. Viewership is down across the board for all of
NBC. The just had a big new conference in the last few day where they said
the are going back to basics. The are going to start spending money on
programming and get rid of Leno at ten.
And yes, I have fond memories of Johnny Carson as well. But he is dead. And
the network makes money off of Leno. It may be stabbing Conan in the back,
but he never pulled in the numbers anyway. And it is about money, right?
NBC made some big mistakes. They are now addressing those things. Putting an
old favorite back into the tonight show is probably their best bet. But
they are going to lose more market share before this is over. You can't scrw
up this big and immediately solve all of their problems.
All the networks go up and down with their ratings and numbers over the
years. It depends largely on who is in charge. And theygot a lot more
competition now too.
Caught Letterman as he roasted NBC execs last night.
Reminded me of a customer who once said, "That cat went up that hill
and sooner or later he's going to come down that hill, and when he
does, I'll be waiting."
It has taken 18 years, but last night Letterman "was waiting", and
relishing every moment of it.
Lew
On Jan 13, 3:08=A0pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
>
> As much as I dislike Letterman, I will say this: he seems to be the only
> remaining late-night TV host who actually can *interview* his hosts the
> way the master, Carson, used to. Which means actually *listening* to
> what they're saying instead of injecting themselves into every comment
> their guest makes, or angling for a clever double entendre or whatever.
The WORST for that interjection crap is that Chris Matthews. Nobody
has ever finished an answer to a question he/she has been asked by
Matthews. I hate that! After two or three times, that guy made it on
my shitlist. That whole MSNBC network has gone the way of Fox, but
from a slightly different angle. <G> But there's still some glimmer of
intelligence there. Olbermann and Maddow are at least smart, although
way too far over to the left. That's my biggest beef with gay people.
They want to be accepted..then, when they are, they won't shut up
about it. Mind you. if I could drink a jug of scotch with Maddow, I
would.
On Jan 13, 2:45=A0pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/12/2010 9:13 PM Lew Hodgett spake thus:
>
> > "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>
> >> Craig Ferguson's got them all beat. By a mile.
>
> > He certainly has the talent, but the silly format of the show keeps
> > him shackled.
>
> You mean to say that you don't think hand puppets are the /sine qua non/
> of late-night TV humor?
>
> > 3-4 years ago, he was very amusing.
>
> > Today, not so much.
>
> Well, Ferguson knows how to do something very well that most other TV
> talk-show hosts don't: self-mockery. Now, I certainly wouldn't ever want
> to watch his show (or any other) every night. After all, this is TV
> we're talking about. Remember Newt Minnow's famous comment, about the
> "vast wasteland"?
>
> TV is crap. And Ferguson says so every show. That alone makes him worth
> watching in my book. (But not every night.)
>
I would agree that Ferguson is the 'freshest' of them all. Doesn't
take himself too seriously unlike that smug Kimmel.
I am not anti-TV, because I go through the cable guide every night in
the hope to find something worthwhile. Mythbusters, some History
Channel stuff, Daily Planet, The Festool Channel, thatsabout it.
On Jan 14, 5:42=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Caught Letterman as he roasted NBC execs last night.
>
> Reminded me of a customer who once said, "That cat went up that hill
> and sooner or later he's going to come down that hill, and when he
> does, I'll be waiting."
>
> It has taken 18 years, but last night Letterman "was waiting", and
> relishing every moment of it.
>
> Lew
Zucker will screw Conan.. for at least the length of his non-
competition agreement...and I'm pretty sure there is one of those.
On 2010-01-12 20:51:06 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> said:
> Well, that is the thing. Two years ago, NBC decided that it was a
> brave new world and they were gonna produce programming on the cheap
> and make lots of money.
FWIW dept.:
http://tinyurl.com/yalx9tx (Conan addresses the universe)
http://bit.ly/7UcuiL (Letterman at his understated best)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/graphic/2010-01/51534084.gif
("Late-night landscape")
On 1/12/2010 5:16 PM Lew Hodgett spake thus:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
>> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
>
> IMHO, Fallon is a sleeper in this little play.
Craig Ferguson's got them all beat. By a mile.
(Yeah, yeah, Carson was the best and all that, but those days are *gone*.)
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
On 1/12/2010 7:15 PM HeyBub spake thus:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
>> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
>> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
>> altogether.
>> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>>
>> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
>
> They can recover by the simple expedient of simply simulcasting Bill
> O'Reilly with Fox.
Yeah, you *would* say that, "Bub".
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
On 1/12/2010 9:13 PM Lew Hodgett spake thus:
> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>
>> Craig Ferguson's got them all beat. By a mile.
>
> He certainly has the talent, but the silly format of the show keeps
> him shackled.
You mean to say that you don't think hand puppets are the /sine qua non/
of late-night TV humor?
> 3-4 years ago, he was very amusing.
>
> Today, not so much.
Well, Ferguson knows how to do something very well that most other TV
talk-show hosts don't: self-mockery. Now, I certainly wouldn't ever want
to watch his show (or any other) every night. After all, this is TV
we're talking about. Remember Newt Minnow's famous comment, about the
"vast wasteland"?
TV is crap. And Ferguson says so every show. That alone makes him worth
watching in my book. (But not every night.)
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
On 1/13/2010 11:49 AM Robatoy spake thus:
> On Jan 13, 2:45 pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, Ferguson knows how to do something very well that most other TV
>> talk-show hosts don't: self-mockery. Now, I certainly wouldn't ever want
>> to watch his show (or any other) every night. After all, this is TV
>> we're talking about. Remember Newt Minnow's famous comment, about the
>> "vast wasteland"?
>>
>> TV is crap. And Ferguson says so every show. That alone makes him worth
>> watching in my book. (But not every night.)
>
> I would agree that Ferguson is the 'freshest' of them all. Doesn't
> take himself too seriously unlike that smug Kimmel.
Yeah, smugness. Except for Ferguson, they're pretty much all smug (I
agree Kimmel's the worst here). Conan has a nervous smugness; Letterman
is smarmily smug. Leno is cocky-smug.
As much as I dislike Letterman, I will say this: he seems to be the only
remaining late-night TV host who actually can *interview* his hosts the
way the master, Carson, used to. Which means actually *listening* to
what they're saying instead of injecting themselves into every comment
their guest makes, or angling for a clever double entendre or whatever.
That element has all but disappeared from this genre.
And I do appreciate Ferguson for his sheer surrealism, which nobody else
on TV seems to even know about.
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
On 1/13/2010 4:34 PM Lew Hodgett spake thus:
> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>
>> You mean to say that you don't think hand puppets are the /sine qua
>> non/ of late-night TV humor?
>
> They have nothing to do with the format.
>
> Interviews are cut off simply to meet a predetermined time allotment.
>
> Most of the skits are just plain boring, especially the shtick with
> the camera.
OK, so it ain't exactly the Algonquin Round Table. I still get a fair
amount of amusement from him (Ferguson), albeit in small doses.
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
On 1/14/2010 5:48 PM, Artemus wrote:
> Leno was ok on the tonite show and I watched because the alternative was
> Letterman. I don't watch Leno at 10.
>
> Letterman was good when he had his show on NBC. When he went to CBS and NBC
> claimed rights to all his skits, gags, etc he seemed to lose his zest for the
> show and I found him to be just plain not funny anymore.
>
> Craig Ferguson is the most likely to be non-PC and therefore have the best humor
> of the current late night bunch, but he also has a bunch of crap stuff that he
> does and he admits it openly.
>
> I find Cona nO'Brain to be extremely irritating and think his behavior shows him
> to be very insecure. Whenever the spotlight leaves him for more than a minute
> he interjects his middle school class clown schtick and rarely lets his guests
> finish a statement. He has occasionaly risen above his usual sophomoric humor
> with a nice topical barb, but this is too rare an event to endure him otherwise.
> In any time slot.
>
> I miss Carson, Parr, and Cavett.
If you are not an extremely astute, experienced critic, you missed a
good chance to be one.
Ditto to all the above ... except I never really cared for Letterman, ever.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/12/2010 9:13 PM Lew Hodgett spake thus:
>
> TV is crap. And Ferguson says so every show. That alone makes him worth
> watching in my book. (But not every night.)
>
>
Jeff Dunham once said, through his puppet Walter, that he finally figured
out what NBC stands for : "Nothing But Crap".
Robatoy <[email protected]> writes:
> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
I watched a little of Leno, and he spent 10 minutes showing youtube videos.
OLD youtube videos.
Steve Allen was more talented and shear genius with music.
Martin
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
>> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
>
> He can't.
>
>> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
>> altogether.
>
> Neither one of them can hold a candle to what Carson laid down for
> them to follow.
>
>> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>>
>> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
>
> IMHO, Fallon is a sleeper in this little play.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:82b4ebfd-3b35-4da0-864b-ab2e0df80623@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
> altogether.
> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>
> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
Put my name in the "who cares?" column.
Leno used to be funny when he did standup as a guest on Carson. When he
took over, the show went down hill and I've not watched since. I used to
watch Allen, then Carson. These days, I get up earlier and go to bed before
the news. (Oh, I remember watching Jack Paar sometimes too)
Robatoy wrote:
> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
> altogether.
> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>
> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
They can recover by the simple expedient of simply simulcasting Bill
O'Reilly with Fox.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:82b4ebfd-3b35-4da0-864b-ab2e0df80623@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
> altogether.
> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>
> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
Agreed I think they gave Fuh Up.
Here is my take. I really liked Leno after his first year on the Tonight
show. The first year he seemed to not be in control. The second year
really appeared to me that he took charge.
Conan replaces Letteman and that show was OK every once in a great while.
Leno decides to call it quits several years ago and stays till early 09.
Concan fills the void.... and what seems to work exactly like it did when
Leno took over the Tonight Show, the show was not too good.
The New before the news Leno show is very good IMHO. BUT
BUT this type entertainment seems best after the late night news and laying
in bed. Basically no competition... Leterman never was any competition
IMHO.
It appears that many others seem to believe the way I do about when this
type entertainment show shoud air and now NBC is going to bump Conan and
the Tonight Show back 30 minutes to make room for the new 30 minute Leno
show.
Conan refuses to take part.
Fallon sucked at first but I think he is improving.....when I can keep my
eyes open that long.....
So while I preferred Leno, his spot is taken now, give the others the same
chance.... I would rather see Leno on the Tonight Show right now but Conan
apparently was no slouch on his show before taking over after Leno.
Leno had his chance and quit.....
Perhaps if NBC whould get rid of those cheesy farkin cheap ass reality shows
they would do better.
On Jan 13, 12:34=A0am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
.
>
> =A0 Carson used to be a definite stay-up for. =A0Leno the first several y=
ears
> also. =A0However, as Leno went on, he got more and more material that see=
med
> to be more propagandizing for an agenda than really being purely comedy
> material. =A0Not that political jokes are bad, but when a definite bias s=
tarts
> to creep in, it starts not being so funny.
That is particularly true when the bias swings away from one's
personal ideology.
My blood curdles when I'm exposed to gross sexual or Jesus jokes;
they're off limits.
That kind of humour will have them rolling in the vomit and peanut
shells of many piss-tanks across our nations. just not for me.
But.... are those jokes funny? Well, yes. To those losers they're
funny.
If Leno cracks a pro left-wing joke, and the majority of the nation
responds with laughter, like they did at election-time, then Leno is
successful in pleasing his audience. That is good for business, and
what's good for business is okay. (Right-wing model)
Take that barf-bag Stephen Colbert for instance, Or Glenn Beck, who
claims he does it all for 'shock'.... because nobody can be that big
of an idiot without having an audience to play to. (Right-wing
business model)... and I won't discuss O'Reilly..or Coultergheist.
They're all comedians with biases, right?
Personally, funny is funny... and I don't care who the target is. I
told many Hillary jokes. Many Bill Clinton jokes. Bob Dole... now
there's a source. Do *I* care what political side they're on? Nope.
But... when somebody hands you a treasure trove like GWB...how can you
help it? Is Rahm Emmanual funnier than Karl Rove? Nope.. both very
dangerous people.
Is there anybody creepier than Timothy F. Geithner or James Carville?
=A0
>His "Jay Walking" and other bits
> were really good. =A0But as time went on, making time for the Tonight Sho=
w
> just wasn't a priority and got to where we stopped watching completely a
> number of years ago. =A0Every once in a while would tune in again, but ju=
st
> couldn't work up the enthusiasm to watch through, let alone past the
> monologue.
I like Leno's garage. Period. Headlines are funny when I stumble into
them, I certainly don't hang around the TV to get to them.
Conan has his moments. Fallon is funny, sometimes, but he has The
Roots! Ferguson cracks me up...for a little while.
Funny to me is Steven Wright but he couldn't do a show every night.
EVERY night... man, that must be hard.
>
> =A0 The few times I watched Conan on his original time slot, I found the =
jokes
> more forced than funny (just my opinion) so it doesn't surprise me he is =
not
> doing well with a Tonight Show audience.
>
The 'Tonight Show Audience' is getting old. Times have changed. I
Carson's day, silly was funny, now silly is contrived.
Leon wrote:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:82b4ebfd-3b35-4da0-864b-ab2e0df80623@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
>> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
>> altogether.
>> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>>
>> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
>
>
> Agreed I think they gave Fuh Up.
>
> Here is my take. I really liked Leno after his first year on the Tonight
> show. The first year he seemed to not be in control. The second year
> really appeared to me that he took charge.
>
Carson used to be a definite stay-up for. Leno the first several years
also. However, as Leno went on, he got more and more material that seemed
to be more propagandizing for an agenda than really being purely comedy
material. Not that political jokes are bad, but when a definite bias starts
to creep in, it starts not being so funny. His "Jay Walking" and other bits
were really good. But as time went on, making time for the Tonight Show
just wasn't a priority and got to where we stopped watching completely a
number of years ago. Every once in a while would tune in again, but just
couldn't work up the enthusiasm to watch through, let alone past the
monologue.
The few times I watched Conan on his original time slot, I found the jokes
more forced than funny (just my opinion) so it doesn't surprise me he is not
doing well with a Tonight Show audience.
> Conan replaces Letteman and that show was OK every once in a great while.
>
> Leno decides to call it quits several years ago and stays till early 09.
>
> Concan fills the void.... and what seems to work exactly like it did when
> Leno took over the Tonight Show, the show was not too good.
>
> The New before the news Leno show is very good IMHO. BUT
>
>
> BUT this type entertainment seems best after the late night news and
> laying
> in bed. Basically no competition... Leterman never was any competition
> IMHO.
>
> It appears that many others seem to believe the way I do about when this
> type entertainment show shoud air and now NBC is going to bump Conan and
> the Tonight Show back 30 minutes to make room for the new 30 minute Leno
> show.
>
> Conan refuses to take part.
>
> Fallon sucked at first but I think he is improving.....when I can keep my
> eyes open that long.....
>
> So while I preferred Leno, his spot is taken now, give the others the
> same
> chance.... I would rather see Leno on the Tonight Show right now but
> Conan apparently was no slouch on his show before taking over after Leno.
>
> Leno had his chance and quit.....
>
> Perhaps if NBC whould get rid of those cheesy farkin cheap ass reality
> shows they would do better.
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
Leno was ok on the tonite show and I watched because the alternative was
Letterman. I don't watch Leno at 10.
Letterman was good when he had his show on NBC. When he went to CBS and NBC
claimed rights to all his skits, gags, etc he seemed to lose his zest for the
show and I found him to be just plain not funny anymore.
Craig Ferguson is the most likely to be non-PC and therefore have the best humor
of the current late night bunch, but he also has a bunch of crap stuff that he
does and he admits it openly.
I find Cona nO'Brain to be extremely irritating and think his behavior shows him
to be very insecure. Whenever the spotlight leaves him for more than a minute
he interjects his middle school class clown schtick and rarely lets his guests
finish a statement. He has occasionaly risen above his usual sophomoric humor
with a nice topical barb, but this is too rare an event to endure him otherwise.
In any time slot.
I miss Carson, Parr, and Cavett.
Art
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:82b4ebfd-3b35-4da0-864b-ab2e0df80623@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> How can Leno possibly be successful by taking back the Tonight Show?
>> Conan isn't funny, well, sometimes he is, but Leno has lost it
>> altogether.
>> Go play in your garage, Jay...I like you there.
>>
>> NBC sure shot themselves in the foot.
>
> Put my name in the "who cares?" column.
>
> Leno used to be funny when he did standup as a guest on Carson. When he
> took over, the show went down hill and I've not watched
> since. I used to watch Allen, then Carson. These days, I get up
> earlier and go to bed before the news. (Oh, I remember watching
> Jack Paar sometimes too)
It's not all his fault. The world in general and his guests in particular
are more dreary than in times past.