I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
purchased from Rockler.
The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
TIA.
Dick Snyder
On 3/15/2015 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 03/14/2015 6:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
>> -----------------------------------------
>> As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
>> there from here in this application.
>>
>> IMHO, you have the following choices:
>>
>> 1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.
>
> ...
>
> Veneer it is the other choice to retain the original cherry look.
>
> --
>
I may do the hardboard as a second choice. First choice right now is
smoked acrylic glass. I will have to give up on the cherry doors but my
daughter (the recipient) is OK with that.
On 3/14/2015 3:46 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>> purchased from Rockler.
>>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
>> for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
>> finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
>> natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
>> blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
>> any suggestions for
>> me?
>
> I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
> high).
>
> I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
> have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
> room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
> about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
> warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.
>
> Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
> glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
> enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
> caveat about space.
>
> For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
> (hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
> wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
> route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
> in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
> least I would).
>
I think I now understand why all the reviewers of the Rockler bypass
door sliders were able to use 1/4" plywood. Their doors were not as big
as mine.
I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I am
going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better ideas.
Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
Thanks for helping me understand why I got the warping.
Dick
On 3/14/2015 3:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,
>
> Always finish both sides of plywood panels.
>
> While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
> warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
> favor.
>
> What grade was the ply?
>
> Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
> chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
> on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
> like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.
>
> There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.
>
> Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
> and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
> that fits in the groove.
>
> You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
> and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.
>
> You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
> glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
> tongue.
>
> Be creative ...
>
Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
-----------------------------------------
As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
there from here in this application.
IMHO, you have the following choices:
1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.
1/4" etched safety glass.
1/4" smoked acrylic sheet complete with finger holes.
Of those 3, my choice would be the acrylic.
Lighter in weight than glass, safety is not an issue.
Only you can determine if painted hardboard will provide
the necessary esthetics.
Lew
On 03/14/2015 11:18 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
> purchased from Rockler.
>
> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried) but
> clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
How about this stuff:
<https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/specialty-panels/melamine/dakota-1-4-x-49-x-97-melamine-panel/p-1954471-c-13335.htm>
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>
>>
> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>
> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>
> --
The panels/doors have to pass by each other
On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:47:10 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>>
>>>
>> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
>> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>>
>> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
>> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
>> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
>> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>>
>> --
>The panels/doors have to pass by each other
The idea is that one panel is offset to the outside of the track and
the other to the inside. They will still pass by each other, just as
the bare panels do but the "inner" door will cut into the interior
space a bit.
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
> purchased from Rockler.
>
> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried) but
> clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
After many good ideas from you all on my problems I thought I would let
you know that the idea which worked best for me was 1/4" acrylic
panels. They are very stable, slide easily, and while not what I had
planned on (I had stained cherry plywood), they look quite nice in their
own right.
Thanks again to all who assisted me in thinking through this problem
and, as usual when I ask for help, I learned a *LOT*.
Dick Snyder
On 3/15/2015 7:43 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 03/15/2015 4:51 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 03/15/2015 4:47 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
>>>> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>>>>
>>>> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
>>>> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
>>>> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
>>>> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>>>>
>>> The panels/doors have to pass by each other
>>
>> So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
>> panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for
>> clearance...
>
> And, in fact, they can still go in the 1/4" grooves simply rabbet the
> bottom/top edges to fit and turn the to panel overhangs to front/rear,
> respectively on each.
>
> --
>
>
I went to a glass store today to see if they can track down smoked
acrylic glass.
Meanwhile I am thinking more about your idea. As I understand it, I
should make a frame and panel door with the 1/4" cherry as the panel.
The panel track from Rockler is 7/8" wide. This leaves just under 1/4"
for the two panels to pass each other. If I made 1/2" frames with a
rabbet on each frame edge to create a spline to slide in the track. I
would end up with something just a little wider than I have now. I worry
that the 1/2" frame with the unruly 30"x 34" plywood in it would rack a
lot but I guess it is worth making a frame to see what happens.
On 3/14/2015 7:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
> -----------------------------------------
> As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
> there from here in this application.
>
> IMHO, you have the following choices:
>
> 1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.
>
> 1/4" etched safety glass.
>
> 1/4" smoked acrylic sheet complete with finger holes.
>
> Of those 3, my choice would be the acrylic.
>
> Lighter in weight than glass, safety is not an issue.
>
> Only you can determine if painted hardboard will provide
> the necessary esthetics.
>
> Lew
>
>
I like the smoked acrylic sheet idea the best. I will contact my local
glass place on Monday. Thanks.
Dick
Did you varnish both sides at the same time ? If you left
the inside bare the moisture can hit the bare side and swell.
Martin
On 3/14/2015 2:15 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>>> suggestions for me?
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
>> directly in the track?
>>
>> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
>> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
>> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
>> rigid.
>>
>> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
>> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
>> sliding door guides, like these:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>>
>> John
>>
> When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
> had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
> website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
> to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
> dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
> wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
> what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
> 3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.
On 3/14/2015 5:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,
>
> Always finish both sides of plywood panels.
>
> While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
> warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
> favor.
>
> What grade was the ply?
>
> Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
> chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
> on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
> like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.
>
> There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.
>
> Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
> and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
> that fits in the groove.
>
> You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
> and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.
>
> You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
> glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
> tongue.
>
> Be creative ...
>
There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.
On 4/2/2015 9:07 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> Dick Snyder
> After many good ideas from you all on my problems I thought I would let
> you know that the idea which worked best for me was 1/4" acrylic
> panels. They are very stable, slide easily, and while not what I had
> planned on (I had stained cherry plywood), they look quite nice in their
> own right.
>
> Thanks again to all who assisted me in thinking through this problem
> and, as usual when I ask for help, I learned a *LOT*.
Photos, or it didn't happen ... ;)
And congratulations on finding a solution you're happy with.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 3/14/2015 6:05 PM, Max wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 3:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,
>>
>> Always finish both sides of plywood panels.
>>
>> While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
>> warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
>> favor.
>>
>> What grade was the ply?
>>
>> Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
>> chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
>> on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
>> like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.
>>
>> There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.
>>
>> Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
>> and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
>> that fits in the groove.
>>
>> You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
>> and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.
>>
>> You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
>> glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
>> tongue.
>>
>> Be creative ...
>>
>
> Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/
My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
On 3/17/2015 2:17 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 03/16/2015 8:32 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> On 3/15/2015 7:43 PM, dpb wrote:
> ...
>
>>>> So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
>>>> panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for
>>>> clearance...
>>>
>>> And, in fact, they can still go in the 1/4" grooves simply rabbet the
>>> bottom/top edges to fit and turn the to panel overhangs to front/rear,
>>> respectively on each.
>>>
> ...
>
>> Meanwhile I am thinking more about your idea. As I understand it, I
>> should make a frame and panel door with the 1/4" cherry as the panel.
>> The panel track from Rockler is 7/8" wide. This leaves just under 1/4"
>> for the two panels to pass each other. If I made 1/2" frames with a
>> rabbet on each frame edge to create a spline to slide in the track. I
>> would end up with something just a little wider than I have now. I worry
>> that the 1/2" frame with the unruly 30"x 34" plywood in it would rack a
>> lot but I guess it is worth making a frame to see what happens.
>
> That's the idea, yes. What's the ply core, do you know? What's the RH
> in the workroom area and where it's been stored and how was it stored?
> It's possible you might be able to reduce EMC and get it to return to
> more nearly the neutral stress position at time of manufacture which
> will tend to cause it to go back to nearer flat. If you can do that,
> and _THEN_ finish it to reduce further moisture migration you may have a
> shot.
>
> I sorta' fanned on the overall size of the panels initially; that's
> pretty large. You possible could make the frame and inset panels in
> somewhat like window lights instead of just one single panel...could end
> up as a "design feature", perhaps... :)
>
> --
I am going to try to make 2" wide frames out of some scrap pine to see
if they will hold the panels flat. I think I will join them with half
lap joints for now. If that works, I might try miters with splines. TBD
I don't know the ply core. I don't have an instrument for RH but we have
oil heat and it has been a VERY cold winteand spring so far (27 for a
high today) so we had more (dry) heat than usual. The boards were
stored in a vertical position, longest edge down. I will just do my
experiment and see what happens.
I am still pursing a source for Lexan
Kinda like welding sheet stock to a base. Weld one side and the
standing sheet bends in the weld. Welding the other side won't fix it.
One tack welds back and forth on both sides - once tacked in then weld.
The idea is for wood also - coating one side might at first relax that
side but as the coating is dried it shrinks. Putting it on both sides
causes it to shrink in back to back motions that counteracts the forces.
Martin
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
>>> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
>>> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
>>> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
>>> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
>>> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
>>> but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for
>>> me?
>>>
>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> Dick Snyder
>>
>> Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
>> there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
>> (finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
>> from the cherry?)
>>
> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
> warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
> straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
> Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
> plywood supplier.
On 4/2/2015 10:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>> Where is a good place to put a photo?
> -------------------------------------------
> alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking works for me.
>
> Lew
>
>
I just posted a picture on apbw. The cabinet is sitting on my assembly
table awaiting delivery to my daughter and her husband tomorrow.
Again, thanks to all who were so helpful to me.
Dick
Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
> purchased from Rockler.
>
> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
> suggestions for me?
If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
directly in the track?
I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
rigid.
For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
sliding door guides, like these:
http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
John
Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
> am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
> ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
and have another something flat to put on top together
with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.
Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
of frosted glass.
John
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to
> slide around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use
> four pieces, rather than two. He could still access the same amount
> of space.
A very good point. Four at 30" x 18.5" would be much more
manageable, both in use and in installation.
John
On 3/14/2015 5:05 PM, Max wrote:
>>
>
> Yeppers. I put the strip in the center but OP could put it on the edges.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/
Very nicely done!
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 4/2/2015 11:52 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 9:07 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>>> Dick Snyder
>> After many good ideas from you all on my problems I thought I would let
>> you know that the idea which worked best for me was 1/4" acrylic
>> panels. They are very stable, slide easily, and while not what I had
>> planned on (I had stained cherry plywood), they look quite nice in their
>> own right.
>>
>> Thanks again to all who assisted me in thinking through this problem
>> and, as usual when I ask for help, I learned a *LOT*.
>
> Photos, or it didn't happen ... ;)
Exactly!
On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>> purchased from Rockler.
>>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>> suggestions for me?
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
> directly in the track?
>
> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
> rigid.
>
> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
> sliding door guides, like these:
>
> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>
> John
>
Not really, my parents had a setup like that, and it has lasted for 50
some odd years. I still have it in my shop.
I took the doors off when I put it back, but just to check, I put them
back in today. Still good.
They can last.
Not sure why you needed to buy the track, these were just grooves in the
bottom and top of the carcass.
I don't know a way to fix it.
--
Jeff
On 3/15/2015 8:18 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 03/14/2015 11:18 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
>> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>> purchased from Rockler.
>>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
>> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
>> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
>> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
>> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried) but
>> clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>
>
> How about this stuff:
>
> <https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/specialty-panels/melamine/dakota-1-4-x-49-x-97-melamine-panel/p-1954471-c-13335.htm>
>
>
>
Thanks. Like hardboard, I would have to paint it. I have a couple of
other approaches to consider first
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:12:59 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 3/14/2015 5:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,
>>
>> Always finish both sides of plywood panels.
>>
>> While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
>> warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
>> favor.
>>
>> What grade was the ply?
>>
>> Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
>> chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
>> on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
>> like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.
>>
>> There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.
>>
>> Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
>> and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
>> that fits in the groove.
>>
>> You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
>> and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.
>>
>> You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
>> glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a
>> tongue.
>>
>> Be creative ...
>>
>There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
>pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
>shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
>doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
>have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
>is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.
Tempered glass would be my suggestion for 30X37" doors that cannot be
over 1/4" thick - or 6061T6 aluminum.
Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 3:46 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
>>> for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
>>> finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
>>> natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
>>> blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
>>> any suggestions for
>>> me?
>>
>> I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
>> high).
>>
>> I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
>> have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
>> room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
>> about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
>> warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.
>>
>> Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
>> glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
>> enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
>> caveat about space.
>>
>> For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
>> (hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
>> wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
>> route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
>> in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
>> least I would).
>>
> I think I now understand why all the reviewers of the Rockler bypass
> door sliders were able to use 1/4" plywood. Their doors were not as big
> as mine.
>
> I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I am
> going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better ideas.
> Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
>
> Thanks for helping me understand why I got the warping.
>
> Dick
>
Possibly you could put the stiffener on the front side of the front
panel and on the back side of the back panel. But whether you can
remove the warp is uncertain.
--
GW Ross
People who live in stone houses
shouldn't throw glasses.
On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 12:46:47 PM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:
> For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
> (hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
> wallpaper.
I tried the 'cover with wallpaper' trick, and kinda got it to work, BUT
(1) the stuff I got wasn't real wallpaper, it turns out to be some kind
of pre-pasted vinyl
(2) the hardboard had the screen-surface problem (but you can apply
shellac primer, then apply a hot iron to flatten it- don't use a fancy Teflon
surface iron for this).
(3) I ended up painting the hardboard and the (washed) vinyl stuff with
white glue, letting it dry, then applying the hot iron. Not too hot,
so the vinyl doesn't flow; not to cool, so the glue doesn't soften and fuse.
So, for the future: where oh where can I find REAL PAPER wallpaper?
On 3/14/2015 3:15 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>>> suggestions for me?
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
>> directly in the track?
>>
>> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
>> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
>> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
>> rigid.
>>
>> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
>> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
>> sliding door guides, like these:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>>
>> John
>>
> When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
> had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
> website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
> to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
> dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
> wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
> what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
> 3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.
I hope you held your plywood flat or straight up and down and clamped
when you got it.
The changes in humidity from shipping and such require something to
stabilize it.
I have had similar problems with ply, I have been clamping all ply to a
rack vertically oriented so it won't twist ever since.
Thin ply is a tough one. I am sure the oil did not help. I am sure it is
still wet inside.
--
Jeff
On 3/14/2015 3:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
>>> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
>>> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
>>> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
>>> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
>>> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
>>> but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for
>>> me?
>>>
>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> Dick Snyder
>>
>> Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
>> there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
>> (finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
>> from the cherry?)
>>
> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
Your kidding right?
You must always finish both sides of whatever you work on.
you need it to get the same humidity all around. Sealing one side allows
moisture to directly come in to the untreated side and thats all that
needed.
You must seal the edges too.
> warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
> straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
> Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
> plywood supplier.
--
Jeff
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:15:26 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>>> suggestions for me?
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
>> directly in the track?
>>
>> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
>> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
>> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
>> rigid.
>>
>> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
>> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
>> sliding door guides, like these:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>>
>> John
>>
>When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
>had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
>website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
>to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
>dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
>wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
>what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
>3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.
In a situation where the enclosure is complete and the thickness of
the doors has been defined as 1/4", no more, no less; I'd recommend
glass for the door material. You could have the glass frosted, smoked
or whatever, but if you insist on wood doors you have some demo to do
and some more design work.
Good Luck.
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 22:18:43 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
>> am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
>> ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
>
>This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
>1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
>Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
>(and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
>(West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
>together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
>and have another something flat to put on top together
>with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
>wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
>result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.
>
>Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
>of frosted glass.
>
>John
Another thought - try to get "aircraft grade" plywood - 45degree
instead of 90, and all veneers "A" grade.
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
> purchased from Rockler.
>
> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice
> for the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I
> finished the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco
> natural oil and poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco
> blend had fully dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have
> any suggestions for
> me?
I have used 1/4" ply without problems but only smaller doors (up to 18"-24"
high).
I have also used it in bigger doors with the same result as you. In fact, I
have 4 cabinet doors - about 36" tall - in an upper cabinet in our laundry
room with that problem but they are frame & panel, not sliding. I posted
about them many months ago, the general consensus was that it was the frame
warping, not the ply. I disagree, they will be remade someday.
Even in smaller doors, I have had occasional minor problems. My fix was to
glue a piece of wood across them at top & bottom. That works but you need
enough space between them. The best solution is to use thicker ply, same
caveat about space.
For a non-warping panel for your current needs, I would suggest Masonite
(hardboard). It is butt-ugly but can be painted nicely. Or covered with
wallpaper. Or even veneered (both sides). In either case, should you go that
route, search out hardboard that has NOT been made on a screen; that results
in one smooth side, one rough. You would want both to be smooth (or at
least I would).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
John McCoy wrote:
> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
>> am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
>> ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
>
> This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
> 1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
> Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
> (and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
> (West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
> together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
> and have another something flat to put on top together
> with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
> wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
> result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.
>
> Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
> of frosted glass.
>
> John
I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to slide
around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use four pieces,
rather than two. He could still access the same amount of space.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 03/14/2015 6:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice.
> -----------------------------------------
> As others have suggested with 1/4" plywood, you can't get
> there from here in this application.
>
> IMHO, you have the following choices:
>
> 1/4" hardboard, two sides good and painted.
...
Veneer it is the other choice to retain the original cherry look.
--
Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>
>
What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
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Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>
>
What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
--
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On 03/15/2015 4:47 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>>
>>>
>> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
>> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>>
>> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
>> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
>> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
>> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>>
> The panels/doors have to pass by each other
So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for clearance...
--
On 03/15/2015 4:51 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 03/15/2015 4:47 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
>>> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>>>
>>> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
>>> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
>>> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
>>> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>>>
>> The panels/doors have to pass by each other
>
> So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
> panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for
> clearance...
And, in fact, they can still go in the 1/4" grooves simply rabbet the
bottom/top edges to fit and turn the to panel overhangs to front/rear,
respectively on each.
--
On 03/15/2015 7:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:47:10 -0400, Dick Snyder<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/2015 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> Dick Snyder<[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>> My depth space is very limited. I don't have room for two 3/4" doors
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What if the spline(?) for the track is offset for each door? You might
>>> have to trim any interior shelves by a little.
>>>
>>> How much _can_ you sacrifice in shelf depth? It wouldn't take but a
>>> 1/2" thick frame or maybe even 3/8" with a rabbet to add sufficient
>>> stiffness to the panels. Doesn't have to be a centered groove, a rear
>>> flush rabbet'll do the same trick...
>>>
>>> --
>> The panels/doors have to pass by each other
>
> The idea is that one panel is offset to the outside of the track and
> the other to the inside. They will still pass by each other, just as
> the bare panels do but the "inner" door will cut into the interior
> space a bit.
Precisely, and better worded besides... :)
--
On 03/16/2015 8:32 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> On 3/15/2015 7:43 PM, dpb wrote:
...
>>> So, they still can/could, just need the width of the thickness of the
>>> panels which could be as little as 3/4" total plus a smidge for
>>> clearance...
>>
>> And, in fact, they can still go in the 1/4" grooves simply rabbet the
>> bottom/top edges to fit and turn the to panel overhangs to front/rear,
>> respectively on each.
>>
...
> Meanwhile I am thinking more about your idea. As I understand it, I
> should make a frame and panel door with the 1/4" cherry as the panel.
> The panel track from Rockler is 7/8" wide. This leaves just under 1/4"
> for the two panels to pass each other. If I made 1/2" frames with a
> rabbet on each frame edge to create a spline to slide in the track. I
> would end up with something just a little wider than I have now. I worry
> that the 1/2" frame with the unruly 30"x 34" plywood in it would rack a
> lot but I guess it is worth making a frame to see what happens.
That's the idea, yes. What's the ply core, do you know? What's the RH
in the workroom area and where it's been stored and how was it stored?
It's possible you might be able to reduce EMC and get it to return to
more nearly the neutral stress position at time of manufacture which
will tend to cause it to go back to nearer flat. If you can do that,
and _THEN_ finish it to reduce further moisture migration you may have a
shot.
I sorta' fanned on the overall size of the panels initially; that's
pretty large. You possible could make the frame and inset panels in
somewhat like window lights instead of just one single panel...could end
up as a "design feature", perhaps... :)
--
On 03/17/2015 1:17 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> I sorta' fanned on the overall size of the panels initially; that's
> pretty large. You possible could make the frame and inset panels in
> somewhat like window lights instead of just one single panel...could end
> up as a "design feature", perhaps... :)
Just in round numbers a 4-lite panel would have roughly 12x14" panels
whereas 6-lite would work out a about 8x14" if two high. No idea what
the rest looks like; could envision it "lookin' good!!!", depending... :)
--
On 03/17/2015 4:03 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 03/17/2015 1:17 PM, dpb wrote:
> ...
>
>> I sorta' fanned on the overall size of the panels initially; that's
>> pretty large. You possible could make the frame and inset panels in
>> somewhat like window lights instead of just one single panel...could end
>> up as a "design feature", perhaps... :)
>
> Just in round numbers a 4-lite panel would have roughly 12x14" panels
> whereas 6-lite would work out a about 8x14" if two high. No idea what
> the rest looks like; could envision it "lookin' good!!!", depending... :)
...
BTW, the key is that if you make more, smaller panels, you'll find the
needed stiffness won't be as much to retain them flat as the single
larger since there's less bend to remove from each. I'd still work on
reducing the initial stress levels first, though...
--
On 03/18/2015 2:46 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
...
> I am going to try to make 2" wide frames out of some scrap pine to see
> if they will hold the panels flat. I think I will join them with half
> lap joints for now. If that works, I might try miters with splines. TBD
And, if that is reasonably successful, the cherry or other hardwood will
be stiffer. As noted, also, if you go to 2 (or 4 or 6) instead of just
1 panel you add stiffness and reduce the amount of force needed at the
same time (at the cost of more fabrication effort, of course, ain't no
free lunch :) )
> I don't know the ply core. I don't have an instrument for RH but we have
> oil heat and it has been a VERY cold winteand spring so far (27 for a
> high today) so we had more (dry) heat than usual. The boards were stored
> in a vertical position, longest edge down. I will just do my experiment
> and see what happens.
Try laying flat covered on clean, dry non-staining material and place a
plastic over it with a water dish under to let it pick up some. Sticker
it so it's got circulation space both sides and add some weight to the
top...see if it will acclimatize back to a more nearly uniform flatter
position then after that when it is brought back to a dry environment.
Have smaller panels just oversize what you need makes this easier to
handle from space considerations obviously...
On edge is really not a good way to store ply altho often given room
limitations it's the only practical solution.
--
On 3/14/2015 5:12 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> There are two doors, each 30" high and 37" wide. They need to be able to
> pass by each other so that half of the shelves are open at a time. The
> shelves will store cook books etc. I don't see yet how frame and panel
> doors would be able to pass by each other in the space (depth) that I
> have. My current thinking is to find some other 1/4" thick material that
> is stiff and would allow me to keep my basic design.
If the design permits, go for it.
Doesn't sound like that option would break the bank.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 3/14/2015 2:18 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it,
Always finish both sides of plywood panels.
While the fact that you didn't may not be the entire reason the 1/4" ply
warped so badly, it is most certainly a contributing factor not in you
favor.
What grade was the ply?
Lower grades of 1/4" plywood are notorious for turning into potato
chips, particularly if they are subjected to sunlight and wet conditions
on only one side (even on the ride home to the shop, but a plywood grade
like A-1 usually gives you a better chance.
There are some ways to solve the problem if you have enough clearance.
Might want to consider salvaging your investment by making 3/4" frame
and panel doors, with the top and bottom door rails having a 1/4" tongue
that fits in the groove.
You should be able to cut a tongue quickly and easily with a table saw,
and since it it won't be seen, it doesn't have to be pretty.
You could even make frame and panel doors 1/2" shorter in height, then
glue nail a 1/4" strip on the rails in the appropriate location as a tongue.
Be creative ...
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
>for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>purchased from Rockler.
>
>The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
>of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
>sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
>doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
>followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
>but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
>
>TIA.
>
>Dick Snyder
Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
(finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
from the cherry?)
On 3/15/2015 7:29 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> John McCoy wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I do not have enough space between the doors to put in a stiffener. I
>>> am going to call my plywood supplier to see if they have any better
>>> ideas. Otherwise I may go with painted hardboard.
>>
>> This is a bit of a long shot, but if you have a source of
>> 1/16" veneers you could try making up your own plywood.
>> Put the two inner layers at 45 degrees to the outer layer
>> (and 90 degrees to each other, of course), and use epoxy
>> (West System or System Three or similar) to glue it all
>> together. You'll want to glue it up on something flat,
>> and have another something flat to put on top together
>> with a bunch of weights while the glue dries (and plastic
>> wrap between so you don't glue your panel to it). The
>> result will be a lot stiffer than any commercial panel.
>>
>> Otherwise I'd be tempted to go with Gordon's suggestion
>> of frosted glass.
>>
>> John
>
>
> I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" x 30" x 37" glass might be a tad heavy to slide
> around. If I were OP and was going to use glass, would use four pieces,
> rather than two. He could still access the same amount of space.
>
>
I am going to try 1/4" smoked acrylic sheet. Should be stable and a lot
lighter than glass.
On 3/14/2015 10:11 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>>> purchased from Rockler.
>>>
>>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>>> suggestions for me?
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
>> directly in the track?
>>
>> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
>> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
>> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
>> rigid.
>>
>> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
>> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
>> sliding door guides, like these:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>>
>> John
>>
>
> Not really, my parents had a setup like that, and it has lasted for 50
> some odd years. I still have it in my shop.
> I took the doors off when I put it back, but just to check, I put them
> back in today. Still good.
>
> They can last.
>
> Not sure why you needed to buy the track, these were just grooves in the
> bottom and top of the carcass.
>
> I don't know a way to fix it.
>
The general consensus among members of the rec who commented is that the
plywood was too big to remain stable. Each sliding panel is 30" high
and 34" long. Even before I put a finish on it it was curved. I had
hoped (incorrectly) that the track would take out the curves which were
in one direction only - the longest one). I bought it at the end of
December and kept it in my very dry warm basement where my shop is.
Anyway, I am moving on to try 1/4" smoked acrylic sheets which should be
very stable.
On 4/2/2015 12:52 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 9:07 AM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>>> Dick Snyder
>> After many good ideas from you all on my problems I thought I would let
>> you know that the idea which worked best for me was 1/4" acrylic
>> panels. They are very stable, slide easily, and while not what I had
>> planned on (I had stained cherry plywood), they look quite nice in their
>> own right.
>>
>> Thanks again to all who assisted me in thinking through this problem
>> and, as usual when I ask for help, I learned a *LOT*.
>
> Photos, or it didn't happen ... ;)
>
> And congratulations on finding a solution you're happy with.
>
Where is a good place to put a photo?
On 3/14/2015 2:37 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Dick Snyder <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4"
>> cherry for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>> purchased from Rockler.
>>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The
>> rest of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for
>> the sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished
>> the doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and
>> poly followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully
>> dried) but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any
>> suggestions for me?
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're running the 1/4 ply
> directly in the track?
>
> I don't think that will work - plywood is not rigid enough
> for that sort of purpose. Usually when the door runs
> directly in the track, it's tempered glass, which is very
> rigid.
>
> For a wooden door, I think you're going to have to build
> a frame around the panel with 3/4 solid lumber, and use
> sliding door guides, like these:
>
> http://www.rockler.com/european-style-sliding-door-hardware
>
> John
>
When I read the reviews of the track on the Rockler website, everyone
had used 1/4" plywood directly in the track. The picture on the Rockler
website showed bypass glass doors. I think I will call Rockler on Monday
to see what they have to say. I got my plywood from a very high turnover
dealer here in eastern Mass so I assume I just made a bad choice of
wood rather than buying crappy wood. I think I will call them too to see
what they have to say. I don't have enough room in the bypass to use
3/4" plywood. I am kind of stuck with my design.
On 3/14/2015 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:18:37 -0400, Dick Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I am building a cabinet with sliding doors (due to space constraints).
>> It is 36" high, 74" long and made from cherry plywood. I got 1/4" cherry
>> for the sliding doors that are to run in a sliding door track I
>> purchased from Rockler.
>>
>> The plywood I made the doors from was the wrong choice. It started
>> warping and it very difficult to fit in the sliding door track. The rest
>> of the project is complete but I need to find a better choice for the
>> sliding doors (something that is stable and straight). I finished the
>> doors the same as the cabinet(50/50 blend of Watco natural oil and poly
>> followed by two coats of poly after the watco blend had fully dried)
>> but clearly I need to changes horses. Do you have any suggestions for me?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>
> Did you finish both sides of the ply? If not, it WILL warp. Also, is
> there a way to "frame" the plywood with something like a metal channel
> (finished in oiled broze or something that doesn't stick out too much
> from the cherry?)
>
I did not finish both sides but even before I finished it, the wood was
warping. I had (foolishly) hoped that the upper and lower track would
straighten things out. I just replied to another poster than I will call
Rockler on Monday to see what they have to say as well as my (excellent)
plywood supplier.