Another Nail Gun Incident

On 1/22/2012 6:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 9:05 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/22/2012 8:19 AM, willshak wrote:
>>> Steve Barker wrote the following on 1/21/2012 5:15 PM (ET):
>>>> On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>>>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>>>>> dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>>>>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>>>>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>>>>
>>>> next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
>>>> a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> They'll use a hot dog to test it.
>>>
>>
>> No, I think they should use Steve Baker to test it. After all he is the
>> end all answer to all unsolved mysteries.
>
> and hopefully when they fill out the forms, they will spell my name
> correctly. Thanks for playing!
>

;~)

On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>> dangerous.
>
> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.

next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

m II wrote:

> ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!
>

Well - as it relates to posts from you... one can only hope...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

m II wrote:
> I loved making the video, just for you!!
>
> Maybe you can use the nailgun to shoot some crow.
>

Nah - I'll just continue to let you shoot yourself in the ass with your own
comments.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

m II wrote:
> Mike is about to use the high tech tools on his yapp..... duct
> tape!!!
>
>
> SURPRISE!!!!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UMdIaHGzxc&feature=related
>

Dude - you really need to check into a ward. Giving you access to your
mom's computer did not prove to be the benefit that your therapist had hoped
for. Oh well - at least it's entertainment for you.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/23/2012 7:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/23/12 6:52 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>>>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>>>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail,
>>>> in air, too.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
>>> half mile.
>>>
>>> ...and it's still bullshit.
>>>
>>>
>> I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.
>
> I would say much less than that.
>
>

I always thought 2~3 feet would be the dangerous zone. With no barrel
at all to channel the energy the nail pretty much starts decelerating
and loosing direction the moment the it looses contact with the hammer.

I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
weapon.

Leon wrote:

>
> Not sure where I am going here. ;~) but I firmly believe the lack of
> a barrel on a nail gun is what would cause the nail to loose speed
> much more quickly than say a bullet traveling at the same initial
> speed through a barrel.
>

Sorry Leon - should have included this with my previous reply. The lack of
a barrel has nothing to do with the ability to maintain velocity. Velocity
is developed and at the point that the projectile leaves the barrel, it has
velocity. Whatever that velocity is. After that - it's all a matter of
aerodynamics. Since nails are not engineered to support such issues as
drag, and since there is no imparted spin to stabilize the nail, it will
lose velocity much more quickly than a bullet fired at a similar velocity.
So - you are close, in that the nail will not maintain or even benefit from
that velocity in the way that a bullet does, but it does not have anything
to do with the presence of a barrel. It's all about aerodynamics once it's
in the air.


> Basically initial speeds being equal I believe the nail speed would be
> much fewer feet per second, per second than that of a bullet.

At some distance out from the point of firing - yes. I just don't know what
that point is. More than a few feet, but less than the distance around a
polish woman's ass...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 21, 5:05=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:51:31 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Come on, with enough force off a ricochet to pierce the skull.
>
> >They can't even get a bullet to ricochet to kill someone.
> >They tested on MYTH BUSTERS and could not get enough force from a bullet
> >to kill someone. They had to amp it up.
>
> >On 1/21/2012 1:48 PM, dpb wrote:
> >> On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> >>> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
> >> ...
>
> >> ricochet, I would presume...
>
> >> --
>
> Soft lead bullets and hard steel nails behave differently - and
> require different amounts of force to penetrate bone.
> He might just have been a REAL clumsy amateur carpenter too.. Trying
> to nail down throug top sill into stud, and missed . Or nailing into
> roof structure, and bringing nailer down, accidentally fired the darn
> thing without being anywhere close to any wood to hold the nail. How
> it happened isn't clear. What DOES appear to be sure is it DID.
>
> But then there is still a small but sizeable group of Americans who
> still don'r believe man has walked on the moon - - - - - .
> Or that their President is an American - or that their president is
> NOT a Muslim.
>
> =A0Damn, there I got politics into the thread - now it should continue
> on for another 3 weeks or so!!!

Naaaa... you need to be more subtle. I have learned from Hodgett.

Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>
>>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one
>>> as a weapon.
>>
>> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of
>> over 1000 fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
>> Kerry
>>
>>
>
> I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
> contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch
> the nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the
> energy loss would be great on a nail

I don't know what the muzzle velocity of a nail is, from any kind of gun,
but muzzle velocity is muzzle velocity. It does not rely upon gasses or
heat, as it is something that is already attained. The gasses would be
instrumental in developing the muzzle velocity, but have no effect once the
projectile leaves the "barrel".

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 21, 10:12=A0am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and safety, one thing
> becomes perfect clear. No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> dangerous.
>
> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...

Oh NO!

SSSHHHHHH!!!!

If this gets out, no matter how stupid the guy is, the Government will
get involved. Regulators will regulate. Legislation will follow.

Your run of the mill trim nailer will cost $4,800; and you will have
to be trained and licensed to use it!

RonB

Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
If he were working overhead, and the nail were pointed away it would not
hit him.
If pointed toward him it would come through the face, what did he have
the gun behind his head pointed down????


On 1/21/2012 11:12 AM, Dave wrote:
>
> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and safety, one thing
> becomes perfect clear. No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> dangerous.
>
> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-from-us-man-brain-120121/20120121/?hub=TorontoNewHome

"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No! it was claimed a battery operated tackgun could kill an elephant
> through a 1/2" plate steel barrier at over 1.5 km.
>
> ----------
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 1/23/2012 7:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/23/12 6:52 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>>>>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>>>>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the
>>>>> nail,
>>>>> in air, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
>>>> half mile.
>>>>
>>>> ...and it's still bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.
>>
>> I would say much less than that.
>>
>>
>
> I always thought 2~3 feet would be the dangerous zone. With no barrel
> at all to channel the energy the nail pretty much starts decelerating
> and loosing direction the moment the it looses contact with the hammer.
>
> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
> weapon.

Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of over 1000
fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
Kerry

Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>
>>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one
>>> as a weapon.
>>
>> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of
>> over 1000 fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
>> Kerry
>>
>>
>
> I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
> contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch
> the nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the
> energy loss would be great on a nail

Kind of repeating myself from a different responce here, but like you Leon -
I really do not know either. I was surprised to see a velocity that high.
Don't know if it's accurate or not, and I'm too lazy to look it up to see.
If it is accurate, then all other points such as gasses, etc. are mute (I
know... moot...), because by whatever black magic, they found a way to
attain that velocity. At that point, gasses and barrels, and all that other
stuff is irrelevant.

I too believe the energy loss would be quite high. The nail is a horrible
aerodynamic shape, with a lot of drag generated by the head. It lacks any
form of stabilization in flight (such as spin from a barrel's twist), and
its mass is very low. All that said, I'm not sure what I would expect the
trajectory to be like. I could easily doubt the 1 mile stuff that was
bantered about here in a previous thread, but at distances under 20 yards -
I don't know what I'd expect it to be. If it shot like the one video clip
that someone posted (where they shot a clay pigeon at 25 yards), I'd
consider that to be more of a fluke than an expected trajectory. At best, I
would not expect it to fly in a predictable orientation - but again - that's
just gut level thought without really thinking it through. I have been
surprised before...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/21/2012 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 12:51 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2012 1:48 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>>> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> ricochet, I would presume...
>
> > Come on, with enough force off a ricochet to pierce the skull.
> >
> > They can't even get a bullet to ricochet to kill someone.
> > They tested on MYTH BUSTERS and could not get enough force from a bullet
> > to kill someone. They had to amp it up.
>
> Myth Busters being the epitome of scientific proof and all ...
>
> Shit happens.
>

yeah, like their recent cannon ball ordeal. LMAO!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Jan 21, 11:12=A0am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and safety, one thing
> becomes perfect clear. No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> dangerous.
>
> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...

I dunno, Dave.... It isn't April 1 st yet, and somehow I am having a
problem with this. What PSI was this guy running to get the nail to go
that far through bone that deep into the head....
*sceptical me*

On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
> "Josepi"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> No! it was claimed a battery operated tackgun could kill an elephant
>> through a 1/2" plate steel barrier at over 1.5 km.
>>
>> ----------
>>
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> On 1/23/2012 7:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/23/12 6:52 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>>>>>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>>>>>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the
>>>>>> nail,
>>>>>> in air, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
>>>>> half mile.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and it's still bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.
>>>
>>> I would say much less than that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I always thought 2~3 feet would be the dangerous zone. With no barrel
>> at all to channel the energy the nail pretty much starts decelerating
>> and loosing direction the moment the it looses contact with the hammer.
>>
>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
>> weapon.
>
> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of over 1000
> fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
> Kerry
>
>

YABUT... if they don't go through a 3/4 plywood when you miss the joist
at point blank, why would anyone believe they could penetrate ANYthing
at any distance? I doubt you could get a nail to stick in a pumpkin at 20'.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Not in my book. When doing framing or roofing, bump fire can be a good
thing. When doing fine stuff, it's not necessary.

Obviously his use was questionable.

On 1/21/2012 3:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>> dangerous.
>>
>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>
> Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and used in the
> safest way.
>
> I watched a video of this guy talking about the accident. It was very
> apparent that he used the nail gun in the same very dangerous manner in
> which I see lots of guys using them. They keep their fingers on the
> trigger, pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing. That is
> how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most are not misfires at all,
> they are just "fires" because idiots keep the trigger pulled.
>
> If the gummint wants to regulate any kind of safety device for nail
> guns, they should make it so the trigger has to be released before the
> safety tip can be depressed. I'm fairly certain I've used guns like that
> before.
>
>

On 1/22/2012 8:19 AM, willshak wrote:
> Steve Barker wrote the following on 1/21/2012 5:15 PM (ET):
>> On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>>> dangerous.
>>>
>>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>>
>> next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
>> a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!
>>
>
> They'll use a hot dog to test it.
>

nope, a cantelope. more like a head. LOL!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 9:05 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 8:19 AM, willshak wrote:
>> Steve Barker wrote the following on 1/21/2012 5:15 PM (ET):
>>> On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>>>> dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>>>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>>>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>>>
>>> next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
>>> a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!
>>>
>>
>> They'll use a hot dog to test it.
>>
>
> No, I think they should use Steve Baker to test it. After all he is the
> end all answer to all unsolved mysteries.

and hopefully when they fill out the forms, they will spell my name
correctly. Thanks for playing!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Gotta' repeat that one for the archives.

BTW: What is "tight speed"?

----------
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Not sure where I am going here. ;~) but I firmly believe the lack of a
barrel on a nail gun is what would cause the nail to loose speed much
more quickly than say a bullet traveling at the same initial speed
through a barrel.

Basically initial speeds being equal I believe the nail speed would be
much fewer feet per second, per second than that of a bullet.

On 1/22/2012 8:19 AM, willshak wrote:
> Steve Barker wrote the following on 1/21/2012 5:15 PM (ET):
>> On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>>> dangerous.
>>>
>>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>>
>> next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
>> a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!
>>
>
> They'll use a hot dog to test it.
>

No, I think they should use Steve Baker to test it. After all he is the
end all answer to all unsolved mysteries.

On 1/25/2012 1:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/25/12 1:08 PM, m II wrote:
>> ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!
>>
>>
>> -------------
>> "Josepi" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Here I made a video for you.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1
>>
>
>
> Not all of us are sitting in mom's basement, twiddling our fingers, just
> waiting for the next social interaction to validate our miserable lives.
>
> I saw the video. If it wasn't faked, it's about on the money for what I
> would expect. I'll have to ask my friend who owns a trap and skeet
> range, but I'm fairly certain clay targets come in many different
> densities. Some wouldn't survive being dropped on a concrete floor. I
> don't know about the one in the video, but it's very possible a BB gun
> could've produced the same results.
>
> As far as the nail "sticking in the plywood" behind the clay target...
> did you happen to notice it looked like swiss cheese from the thousand
> or so holes already in it?
>
> In any case, given the circumstances in that video, I would wear a face
> mask and normal street clothes, stand in front of that target and let
> them shoot away. Heck, let me wear my umpire gear and I'd stand 10 feet
> closer. :-)
>
>

i shoot clay and i can assure you that they are like paper in the center.



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/25/2012 1:08 PM, m II wrote:
> ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!
>

not quiet at all. just at work. I'll have my nail gun going later,
i'll disprove this easy enough.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/25/2012 12:15 AM, Josepi wrote:
> Here I made a video for you.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1
>
> --------
> "Steve Barker" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> YABUT... if they don't go through a 3/4 plywood when you miss the joist
> at point blank, why would anyone believe they could penetrate ANYthing
> at any distance? I doubt you could get a nail to stick in a pumpkin at 20'.
>
>

i call bullshit on that also. no way they'd fly that far and still have
any power.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

No! it was claimed a battery operated tackgun could kill an elephant
through a 1/2" plate steel barrier at over 1.5 km.

----------

"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 1/23/2012 7:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/23/12 6:52 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>>>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>>>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail,
>>>> in air, too.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
>>> half mile.
>>>
>>> ...and it's still bullshit.
>>>
>>>
>> I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.
>
> I would say much less than that.
>
>

I always thought 2~3 feet would be the dangerous zone. With no barrel
at all to channel the energy the nail pretty much starts decelerating
and loosing direction the moment the it looses contact with the hammer.

I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
weapon.

On 1/25/2012 10:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>>
>>>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one
>>>> as a weapon.
>>>
>>> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of
>>> over 1000 fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
>> contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch
>> the nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the
>> energy loss would be great on a nail
>
> I don't know what the muzzle velocity of a nail is, from any kind of gun,
> but muzzle velocity is muzzle velocity. It does not rely upon gasses or
> heat, as it is something that is already attained. The gasses would be
> instrumental in developing the muzzle velocity, but have no effect once the
> projectile leaves the "barrel".
>

Correct however a barrel helps to define the path that the projectile
will travel and puts a spin on the bullet to help keep it going straight.

Not sure where I am going here. ;~) but I firmly believe the lack of a
barrel on a nail gun is what would cause the nail to loose speed much
more quickly than say a bullet traveling at the same initial speed
through a barrel.

Basically initial speeds being equal I believe the nail speed would be
much fewer feet per second, per second than that of a bullet.

Facebook proves it!

---------
"Dave" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Yeah, certainly a possibility that it's a sham. But, if I lifted a
nailgun above my head and let my wrist sag for a second, I figure the
angle would be approximately right. And after all, a nail in the head
might well have screwed up his memory as to how it happened.

Finally, CTV does have fact checkers. Unless they're getting desperate
for new stories, someone should have looked into the validity of the
story.

Steve Barker wrote the following on 1/21/2012 5:15 PM (ET):
> On 1/21/2012 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>>> dangerous.
>>
>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
>> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
>> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>
> next thing they'll come up with is Nail $top. Won't fire until it does
> a detailed analysis of the object it is up against. LMAO!!
>

They'll use a hot dog to test it.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!


-------------
"Josepi" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Here I made a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1

--------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
YABUT... if they don't go through a 3/4 plywood when you miss the
joist
at point blank, why would anyone believe they could penetrate ANYthing
at any distance? I doubt you could get a nail to stick in a pumpkin at
20'.

On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:

>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
>> weapon.
>
> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of over 1000
> fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
> Kerry
>
>

I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch the
nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the energy
loss would be great on a nail

Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that only
penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail, in air,
too.

Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.


---------------
wrote in message news:[email protected]...

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:51:31 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
wrote:
Soft lead bullets and hard steel nails behave differently - and
require different amounts of force to penetrate bone.
He might just have been a REAL clumsy amateur carpenter too.. Trying
to nail down throug top sill into stud, and missed . Or nailing into
roof structure, and bringing nailer down, accidentally fired the darn
thing without being anywhere close to any wood to hold the nail. How
it happened isn't clear. What DOES appear to be sure is it DID.

But then there is still a small but sizeable group of Americans who
still don'r believe man has walked on the moon - - - - - .
Or that their President is an American - or that their president is
NOT a Muslim.

Damn, there I got politics into the thread - now it should continue
on for another 3 weeks or so!!!

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>>
>>>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one
>>>> as a weapon.
>>>
>>> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of
>>> over 1000 fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
>> contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch
>> the nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the
>> energy loss would be great on a nail
>
> I don't know what the muzzle velocity of a nail is, from any kind of gun,
> but muzzle velocity is muzzle velocity. It does not rely upon gasses or
> heat, as it is something that is already attained. The gasses would be
> instrumental in developing the muzzle velocity, but have no effect once
> the projectile leaves the "barrel".

Yup... the internal ballistics end at the muzzle. A cursory examination of
the exterior ballistics, i.e., what happens in the travel through the air,
would probably reveal poor stability in flight and poor accuracy for a nail.
Both these issues would stem from the lack of gyro effect due to the lack of
spin caused by rifling, as well as the likelihood of variance caused by
imbalances (e.g., the wire fragments, glue, etc. stuck to the nail, as well
as general manufacturing irregularities in the head and point). All those
factors would also likely lead to a relatively quick shedding of velocity
compared to a rifle/pistol bullet starting out at a similar velocity.

One of the stories I read about the incident leading to this thread also
brought up the issue of terminal ballistics, i.e., what happens when the
projectile strikes and enters the target. The article noted that the nail
was hard and retained it's shape during it's trip into the guy's head. In
regards to bullets, that would most closely resemble full metal jacket
and/or armor piercing bullets as compared to soft or hollow points. Net
result is a small shock wave and smaller crush/tear area compared to
commonly used defensive, hunting and target ammo...

That said, both projectile types could be lethal and both would inflict
damage... Be Safe Out There!

John

Just hold down the trigger and one safety device is already bypassed.

Like Dave said....everybody.

-------------
"Dave" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
??? Everybody makes such a nail gun. It's a common feature of many
nail guns and is a practice used by almost every contractor especially
in the framing industry.

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/25/12 1:08 PM, m II wrote:
>> ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!
>>
>>
>> -------------
>> "Josepi" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Here I made a video for you.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1
>>
>
>
> Not all of us are sitting in mom's basement, twiddling our fingers, just
> waiting for the next social interaction to validate our miserable lives.
>
> I saw the video. If it wasn't faked, it's about on the money for what I
> would expect. I'll have to ask my friend who owns a trap and skeet
> range, but I'm fairly certain clay targets come in many different
> densities. Some wouldn't survive being dropped on a concrete floor. I
> don't know about the one in the video, but it's very possible a BB gun
> could've produced the same results.
>
> As far as the nail "sticking in the plywood" behind the clay target...
> did you happen to notice it looked like swiss cheese from the thousand
> or so holes already in it?
>
> In any case, given the circumstances in that video, I would wear a face
> mask and normal street clothes, stand in front of that target and let
> them shoot away. Heck, let me wear my umpire gear and I'd stand 10 feet
> closer. :-)

I'm guessing it was faked...

RE the hole in the clay pigeon, it wouldn't surprise me to punch a hole in
the web area like that without it shattering. I've picked up many a clay at
the range with holes in them but other wise intact... I've got one sitting
on my workbench (at least I think I still do) with 9 holes/chips in it that
were made with a shotgun while it was flying through the air. Not only did
it survive the hits but it survived hitting the ground!

John

The electrical tape holding the tip sleeve back wasn't mentioned either. I
would say details were withheld by the nailhead guy.

-----------
"Twayne" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Agreed. I wasn't aware they could fire by simply holding the trigger
constantly and lettinig the safety tip do the firing. On mine and any I've
ever seen, if you hold the trigger, it shoots the nail but won't shoot
another one until the safety has been reset and the trigger released and
repulled.
But then the age/design/brand of the nail gun wasn't mentioned either,
along with any details on how one would get a gun at that angle and still
fire it. But I'm sure anything is possible.

Leon wrote:

>
> Correct however a barrel helps to define the path that the projectile
> will travel and puts a spin on the bullet to help keep it going
> straight.
> Not sure where I am going here. ;~) but I firmly believe the lack of
> a barrel on a nail gun is what would cause the nail to loose speed
> much more quickly than say a bullet traveling at the same initial
> speed through a barrel.
>

Indeed, the lack of a twist in a barrel could cause a loss of velocity -
projectile looses stability and begins to tumble. But - that is out at some
distance, and I couldn't hazzard a guess at what that distance is. That's
what makes the 1 mile story such crap, but at under 20 feet - maybe a
realistic issue.

> Basically initial speeds being equal I believe the nail speed would be
> much fewer feet per second, per second than that of a bullet.

That's exactly what I thought so I did a very small amount of looking on
google. Much to my surprise - it appears these things can travel upwards of
1400 fps. That's half again faster than a .45, on par with a .41 or a .40
or a 9mm, and half of what an average deer rifle will throw. However - as I
had said, it's more than just muzzle velocity. That number can look scarey
to some, but it's only part of the equation.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

The duct tape is coming!!! the duct tape is coming!!!


------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Well - as it relates to posts from you... one can only hope...

---------
m II wrote:

ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!

Leon wrote:

>
> Might be an interesting experiment however, defeat the safety and
> shoot at the back yard fence to see if the nails stick or bounce off
> or even reach the fence. My money would be on not reaching.

I'll go out on a fence here and agree that I'd suspect most would not reach
and those that did would not reach in a point forward orientation. Of those
that accomplished both, I'd suspect that very few would inflict any real
harm - unless you were running and got shot in the eye with the scissors...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 21, 3:46=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> >> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> >> dangerous.
>
> > So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? =A0A tool that
> > can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
> > is safe. =A0Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>
> Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and used in the
> safest way.
>
> I watched a video of this guy talking about the accident. It was very
> apparent that he used the nail gun in the same very dangerous manner in
> which I see lots of guys using them. They keep their fingers on the
> trigger, pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing. That is
> how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most are not misfires at all,
> they are just "fires" because idiots keep the trigger pulled.

Or they're trying to lay down sheathing in as little time as
possible. Mea culpa...

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:43:44 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
>Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
>If he were working overhead, and the nail were pointed away it would not
>hit him.
>If pointed toward him it would come through the face, what did he have
>the gun behind his head pointed down????

Yeah, certainly a possibility that it's a sham. But, if I lifted a
nailgun above my head and let my wrist sag for a second, I figure the
angle would be approximately right. And after all, a nail in the head
might well have screwed up his memory as to how it happened.

Finally, CTV does have fact checkers. Unless they're getting desperate
for new stories, someone should have looked into the validity of the
story.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:26:23 -0500, "Twayne"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In news:[email protected],
>Robatoy <[email protected]> typed:
>...
>.
>>>
>>> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...
>>
>> I dunno, Dave.... It isn't April 1 st yet, and somehow I
>> am having a problem with this. What PSI was this guy
>> running to get the nail to go that far through bone that
>> deep into the head.... *sceptical me*
>
>Huh? I don't know what you picture, but that's a soft, thin-skull area where
>the nail supposedly hit. There was no "that far" through bone to go; I'm
>actually surprised it didn't go further, in fact.
>
>IF it's a true story. This isn't the first time I've seen that story either.
>Since there isn't any kind of working newspaper URL along with it. Trying
>the ctv.ca results in "
>Sorry, we were unable to find the page you requested."
>right now. And a search on ctv.ca exposed no such story, so I agree this one
>goes inito the skeptical bin too.
>
>HTH,
>
>Twayne`
>
You need to go to toronto.ctv.ca, or swo.ctv.ca , or whatever,to get a
page. I remember seing it on the news on swo.ctv.ca a while back.
(Kitchener Ontario CTV outlet - on the 11pm "national" news (as
compared to "local".)

On Jan 21, 4:17=A0pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Not in my book. When doing framing or roofing, bump fire can be a good
> thing. When doing fine stuff, it's not necessary.
>
> Obviously his use was questionable.
>
> On 1/21/2012 3:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> >>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> >>> dangerous.
>
> >> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
> >> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
> >> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.
>
> > Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and used in the
> > safest way.
>
> > I watched a video of this guy talking about the accident. It was very
> > apparent that he used the nail gun in the same very dangerous manner in
> > which I see lots of guys using them. They keep their fingers on the
> > trigger, pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing. That is
> > how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most are not misfires at all,
> > they are just "fires" because idiots keep the trigger pulled.
>
> > If the gummint wants to regulate any kind of safety device for nail
> > guns, they should make it so the trigger has to be released before the
> > safety tip can be depressed. I'm fairly certain I've used guns like tha=
t
> > before.

Bump firing finishing nails?

On 1/25/2012 11:00 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>>
>>>> I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one
>>>> as a weapon.
>>>
>>> Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of
>>> over 1000 fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
>> contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch
>> the nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the
>> energy loss would be great on a nail
>
> Kind of repeating myself from a different responce here, but like you Leon -
> I really do not know either. I was surprised to see a velocity that high.
> Don't know if it's accurate or not, and I'm too lazy to look it up to see.
> If it is accurate, then all other points such as gasses, etc. are mute (I
> know... moot...), because by whatever black magic, they found a way to
> attain that velocity. At that point, gasses and barrels, and all that other
> stuff is irrelevant.
>
> I too believe the energy loss would be quite high. The nail is a horrible
> aerodynamic shape, with a lot of drag generated by the head. It lacks any
> form of stabilization in flight (such as spin from a barrel's twist), and
> its mass is very low. All that said, I'm not sure what I would expect the
> trajectory to be like. I could easily doubt the 1 mile stuff that was
> bantered about here in a previous thread, but at distances under 20 yards -
> I don't know what I'd expect it to be. If it shot like the one video clip
> that someone posted (where they shot a clay pigeon at 25 yards), I'd
> consider that to be more of a fluke than an expected trajectory. At best, I
> would not expect it to fly in a predictable orientation - but again - that's
> just gut level thought without really thinking it through. I have been
> surprised before...
>


Just responded to you other post before reading this. I believe you and
I are on the same page here. ;~)

I have seen hollywood use a nail gun to shoot like a simi automatic
accurately into objects 30~40 feet away. That ain't going to happen. I
think many might believe this could happen.

Might be an interesting experiment however, defeat the safety and shoot
at the back yard fence to see if the nails stick or bounce off or even
reach the fence. My money would be on not reaching.

The nail head would stop it from going through the plywood. They do burst
through thin materials if you miss the "meat" underneath.


-----
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
YABUT... if they don't go through a 3/4 plywood when you miss the joist
at point blank, why would anyone believe they could penetrate ANYthing
at any distance? I doubt you could get a nail to stick in a pumpkin at 20'.

On Jan 21, 10:12=A0am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> dangerous.

So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.

On Jan 21, 11:12=A0am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and safety, one thing
> becomes perfect clear. No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
> dangerous.
>
> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

>IF it's a true story. This isn't the first time I've seen that story either.
>Since there isn't any kind of working newspaper URL along with it. Trying
>the ctv.ca results in "


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-nail-in-brain-20120121,0,5467139.story

It references the AP.

On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail,
>> in air, too.
>>
>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>
>
> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
> half mile.
>
> ...and it's still bullshit.
>
>
I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:51:31 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
wrote:

>Come on, with enough force off a ricochet to pierce the skull.
>
>They can't even get a bullet to ricochet to kill someone.
>They tested on MYTH BUSTERS and could not get enough force from a bullet
>to kill someone. They had to amp it up.
>
>
>On 1/21/2012 1:48 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
>> ...
>>
>> ricochet, I would presume...
>>
>> --
Soft lead bullets and hard steel nails behave differently - and
require different amounts of force to penetrate bone.
He might just have been a REAL clumsy amateur carpenter too.. Trying
to nail down throug top sill into stud, and missed . Or nailing into
roof structure, and bringing nailer down, accidentally fired the darn
thing without being anywhere close to any wood to hold the nail. How
it happened isn't clear. What DOES appear to be sure is it DID.

But then there is still a small but sizeable group of Americans who
still don'r believe man has walked on the moon - - - - - .
Or that their President is an American - or that their president is
NOT a Muslim.

Damn, there I got politics into the thread - now it should continue
on for another 3 weeks or so!!!

On 1/21/12 11:18 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jan 21, 11:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and safety, one thing
>> becomes perfect clear. No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>> dangerous.
>>
>> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...
>
> I dunno, Dave.... It isn't April 1 st yet, and somehow I am having a
> problem with this. What PSI was this guy running to get the nail to go
> that far through bone that deep into the head....
> *sceptical me*

Just a *very* soft skull. :-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In news:[email protected],
Robatoy <[email protected]> typed:
...
.
>>
>> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...
>
> I dunno, Dave.... It isn't April 1 st yet, and somehow I
> am having a problem with this. What PSI was this guy
> running to get the nail to go that far through bone that
> deep into the head.... *sceptical me*

Huh? I don't know what you picture, but that's a soft, thin-skull area where
the nail supposedly hit. There was no "that far" through bone to go; I'm
actually surprised it didn't go further, in fact.

IF it's a true story. This isn't the first time I've seen that story either.
Since there isn't any kind of working newspaper URL along with it. Trying
the ctv.ca results in "
Sorry, we were unable to find the page you requested."
right now. And a search on ctv.ca exposed no such story, so I agree this one
goes inito the skeptical bin too.

HTH,

Twayne`

On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
...

ricochet, I would presume...

--

On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that tool
>> dangerous.
>
> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that
> can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood
> is safe. Apparently there are no dangerous tools in the world.

Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and used in the
safest way.

I watched a video of this guy talking about the accident. It was very
apparent that he used the nail gun in the same very dangerous manner in
which I see lots of guys using them. They keep their fingers on the
trigger, pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing. That is
how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most are not misfires at all,
they are just "fires" because idiots keep the trigger pulled.

If the gummint wants to regulate any kind of safety device for nail
guns, they should make it so the trigger has to be released before the
safety tip can be depressed. I'm fairly certain I've used guns like that
before.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In news:fb2de9dc-043c-44ed-b2a6-33dd3f496801@cf6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com,
Father Haskell <[email protected]> typed:
> On Jan 21, 11:12 am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Considering all the discussion about the SawStop and
>> safety, one thing becomes perfect clear. No matter how
>> safe a tool might be, there's always going to be someone
>> who finds a way to make that tool dangerous.
>>
>> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Not sure I see the relevance of the Gage article, but it's generally
accepted as true. I wasn't aware of the last two updates, but it's
interesting any way you look at it. But ... it's not exactly relevant, IMO.

HTH,

Twayne`

In news:fa96a9e5-9ccb-412e-a095-59c0c640eb40@u20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com,
[email protected] <[email protected]> typed:
> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that
>> tool dangerous.
>
> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool?
> A tool that can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+
> mph 1-3" deep into wood is safe. Apparently there are no
> dangerous tools in the world.

I do, yes as the safety had to have been removed from the nail gun. Unless
it was pressed against the skull and the trigger pulled, it should not have
fired the nail. But then, any tool in the hands of the right dummy is
unsafe, regardless of the safety devices installed.
And where did you get the "100+> mph 1-3" deep into wood ..." bit? It's
nonsense and makes as much sense as removing or toying with safety designs
provided with the guns.

In news:[email protected],
-MIKE- <[email protected]> typed:
> On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make that
>>> tool dangerous.
>>
>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool? A tool that can
>> fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at 100+
>> mph 1-3" deep into wood is safe. Apparently there are
>> no dangerous tools in the world.
>
> Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and
> used in the safest way.
>
> I watched a video of this guy talking about the accident.
> It was very apparent that he used the nail gun in the
> same very dangerous manner in which I see lots of guys
> using them. They keep their fingers on the trigger,
> pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing.
> That is how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most
> are not misfires at all, they are just "fires" because
> idiots keep the trigger pulled.
> If the gummint wants to regulate any kind of safety
> device for nail guns, they should make it so the trigger
> has to be released before the safety tip can be
> depressed. I'm fairly certain I've used guns like that
> before.

Agreed. I wasn't aware they could fire by simply holding the trigger
constantly and lettinig the safety tip do the firing. On mine and any I've
ever seen, if you hold the trigger, it shoots the nail but won't shoot
another one until the safety has been reset and the trigger released and
repulled.
But then the age/design/brand of the nail gun wasn't mentioned either,
along with any details on how one would get a gun at that angle and still
fire it. But I'm sure anything is possible.

In news:[email protected],
tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> typed:
> Not in my book. When doing framing or roofing, bump fire
> can be a good thing. When doing fine stuff, it's not
> necessary.

Who makes such a gun; any idea?

HTH,

Twayne`




> Obviously his use was questionable.
>
> On 1/21/2012 3:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/21/12 2:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Jan 21, 10:12 am, Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> No matter how safe a tool might be, there's
>>>> always going to be someone who finds a way to make
>>>> that tool dangerous.
>>>
>>> So you consider a pneumatic nail gun to be a safe tool?
>>> A tool that can fire a 1-3" steel nail or staple at
>>> 100+ mph 1-3" deep into wood is safe. Apparently there
>>> are no dangerous tools in the world.
>>
>> Every tool is dangerous and must be respected..... and
>> used in the safest way.
>>
>> I watched a video of this guy talking about the
>> accident. It was very apparent that he used the nail gun
>> in the same very dangerous manner in which I see lots of
>> guys using them. They keep their fingers on the trigger,
>> pulling, and allow the "safety" tip to do the firing.
>> That is how most injuries from "misfires" happen. Most
>> are not misfires at all, they are just "fires" because
>> idiots keep the trigger pulled. If the gummint wants to regulate any
>> kind of safety
>> device for nail guns, they should make it so the trigger
>> has to be released before the safety tip can be
>> depressed. I'm fairly certain I've used guns like that
>> before.

On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail,
> in air, too.
>
> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>

I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
half mile.

...and it's still bullshit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/23/12 6:52 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 5:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/23/12 5:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
>>> Some believe that their nail guns have a special type of velocity that
>>> only penetrates wood and can't fly further than the length of the nail,
>>> in air, too.
>>>
>>> Let's see who has the details and where they get them from.
>>>
>>
>> I believe it was someone claiming a nail gun could kill a man from a
>> half mile.
>>
>> ...and it's still bullshit.
>>
>>
> I would doubt if it could happen if in excess of maybe 20'.

I would say much less than that.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/25/12 1:08 PM, m II wrote:
> ROFLMAO.. and the room goes quiet!!!
>
>
> -------------
> "Josepi" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Here I made a video for you.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1
>


Not all of us are sitting in mom's basement, twiddling our fingers, just
waiting for the next social interaction to validate our miserable lives.

I saw the video. If it wasn't faked, it's about on the money for what I
would expect. I'll have to ask my friend who owns a trap and skeet
range, but I'm fairly certain clay targets come in many different
densities. Some wouldn't survive being dropped on a concrete floor. I
don't know about the one in the video, but it's very possible a BB gun
could've produced the same results.

As far as the nail "sticking in the plywood" behind the clay target...
did you happen to notice it looked like swiss cheese from the thousand
or so holes already in it?

In any case, given the circumstances in that video, I would wear a face
mask and normal street clothes, stand in front of that target and let
them shoot away. Heck, let me wear my umpire gear and I'd stand 10 feet
closer. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Not talking about powder-operated fasteners here, but let's consider. As
a previous poster pointed out, a nail gun can drive a (say) 10d nail
through 3 inches of wood. You know what? in my younger and healthier
days, I could take a framing hammer, and after a few setup taps, also
drive a 10d nail through 3 inches of wood in a single hit, too.

So, it must stand to reason then, that if the nail gun can kill at
a distance, I should be able to (with practice of course) toss that nail
up in the air, strike it with my hammer as it falls, and propel it to
a lethal hit with similar performance to the nail gun, right? What do
you guys think? :) Somehow I don't think I'll be doing any hunting
with hammer and nails any time soon...

(I have no idea where that poster got the 100 mph figure though, which
comes to mere 150 or so feet per second, not a lot faster than what a
good major league pitcher can do to a baseball. Even the most anemic
modern pistol rounds move at more like 800 fps. Personally, I'd rather
get hit with a nail at 150 mph than a baseball at 100)


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

From wikipedia article

"Spring-piston guns have a practical upper limit of 1250 ft/s (380 m/s)
for .177 cal (4.5 mm) pellets. Higher velocities cause unstable pellet
flight and loss of accuracy. This is due to the shock wave generated as
the super sonic pellet contacts the air. Shortly after leaving the
barrel, the pellet falls below the speed of sound and the shock wave
overtakes the pellet, causing it to tumble. Drag increases rapidly as
pellets are pushed past the speed of sound, so it is generally better
to increase pellet weight to keep velocities subsonic in high-powered
guns. Sonic crack from the pellet as it moves with supersonic speed
also makes the shot louder sometimes making it possible to be mistaken
for firearm discharge and drawing unwanted attention. Many shooters
have found that velocities in the 800–900 ft/s (240–270 m/s) range
offer an ideal balance between power and pellet stability."

"In the 17th century, air guns, in calibers .30–.51, were used to hunt
big game deer and wild boar. These air rifles were charged using a pump
to fill an air reservoir and gave velocities from 650 to 1,000 feet per
second (200–300 m/s). They were also used in warfare; the most famous
example is the Girandoni Military Repeating Air rifle. "

----------------
"Larry W" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Not talking about powder-operated fasteners here, but let's consider.
As
a previous poster pointed out, a nail gun can drive a (say) 10d nail
through 3 inches of wood. You know what? in my younger and healthier
days, I could take a framing hammer, and after a few setup taps, also
drive a 10d nail through 3 inches of wood in a single hit, too.

So, it must stand to reason then, that if the nail gun can kill at
a distance, I should be able to (with practice of course) toss that
nail
up in the air, strike it with my hammer as it falls, and propel it to
a lethal hit with similar performance to the nail gun, right? What do
you guys think? :) Somehow I don't think I'll be doing any hunting
with hammer and nails any time soon...

(I have no idea where that poster got the 100 mph figure though, which
comes to mere 150 or so feet per second, not a lot faster than what a
good major league pitcher can do to a baseball. Even the most anemic
modern pistol rounds move at more like 800 fps. Personally, I'd rather
get hit with a nail at 150 mph than a baseball at 100)


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.
org

Is the hotdog the victim of the nail or the operator?

--------
"willshak" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

They'll use a hot dog to test it.

On 1/21/2012 12:51 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

> On 1/21/2012 1:48 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
>> ...
>>
>> ricochet, I would presume...

> Come on, with enough force off a ricochet to pierce the skull.
>
> They can't even get a bullet to ricochet to kill someone.
> They tested on MYTH BUSTERS and could not get enough force from a bullet
> to kill someone. They had to amp it up.

Myth Busters being the epitome of scientific proof and all ...

Shit happens.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 18:47:00 -0500, "Twayne"
>> Not in my book. When doing framing or roofing, bump fire
>> can be a good thing. When doing fine stuff, it's not
>> necessary.
>
>Who makes such a gun; any idea?

??? Everybody makes such a nail gun. It's a common feature of many
nail guns and is a practice used by almost every contractor especially
in the framing industry.

Here I made a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlkNDEaCro&feature=endscreen&NR=1

--------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
YABUT... if they don't go through a 3/4 plywood when you miss the joist
at point blank, why would anyone believe they could penetrate ANYthing
at any distance? I doubt you could get a nail to stick in a pumpkin at 20'.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:26:23 -0500, "Twayne"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In news:[email protected],
>Robatoy <[email protected]> typed:
>...
>.
>>>
>>> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120121/nail-removed-...
>>
>> I dunno, Dave.... It isn't April 1 st yet, and somehow I
>> am having a problem with this. What PSI was this guy
>> running to get the nail to go that far through bone that
>> deep into the head.... *sceptical me*
>
>Huh? I don't know what you picture, but that's a soft, thin-skull area where
>the nail supposedly hit. There was no "that far" through bone to go; I'm
>actually surprised it didn't go further, in fact.
>
>IF it's a true story. This isn't the first time I've seen that story either.
>Since there isn't any kind of working newspaper URL along with it. Trying
>the ctv.ca results in "
>Sorry, we were unable to find the page you requested."
>right now. And a search on ctv.ca exposed no such story, so I agree this one
>goes inito the skeptical bin too.
>
>HTH,
>
>Twayne`
>
It came from The Associated Press

Date: Saturday Jan. 21, 2012 8:07 AM ET

OAK LAWN, Ill

It is reported on all the major news sites - so I'd say it's pretty
safe to say IT HAPPENED in Oak Lawn Ill. on Wednesday.?

Come on, with enough force off a ricochet to pierce the skull.

They can't even get a bullet to ricochet to kill someone.
They tested on MYTH BUSTERS and could not get enough force from a bullet
to kill someone. They had to amp it up.


On 1/21/2012 1:48 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 12:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>> Anyone but me wondering how the nail got into the back of his head.
> ...
>
> ricochet, I would presume...
>
> --

I loved making the video, just for you!!

Maybe you can use the nailgun to shoot some crow.


----------
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Dude - you really need to check into a ward. Giving you access to your
mom's computer did not prove to be the benefit that your therapist had
hoped
for. Oh well - at least it's entertainment for you.

--------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UMdIaHGzxc&feature=related

If you have used one, it is quite easy. You hold the safety sleeve against
the wood and fire. The nail misses the edge of the intended wood and flies
through the air. Reach up over the edge of the sheeting from below and fire
it back at yourself. It usually goes into the wood and you don't have to
climb on the roof.

------------
"Twayne" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

I do, yes as the safety had to have been removed from the nail gun. Unless
it was pressed against the skull and the trigger pulled, it should not have
fired the nail. But then, any tool in the hands of the right dummy is
unsafe, regardless of the safety devices installed.
And where did you get the "100+> mph 1-3" deep into wood ..." bit? It's
nonsense and makes as much sense as removing or toying with safety designs
provided with the guns.

Mike is about to use the high tech tools on his yapp..... duct
tape!!!


SURPRISE!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UMdIaHGzxc&feature=related


----------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Kind of repeating myself from a different responce here, but like you
Leon -
I really do not know either. I was surprised to see a velocity that
high.
Don't know if it's accurate or not, and I'm too lazy to look it up to
see.
If it is accurate, then all other points such as gasses, etc. are mute
(I
know... moot...), because by whatever black magic, they found a way to
attain that velocity. At that point, gasses and barrels, and all that
other
stuff is irrelevant.

I too believe the energy loss would be quite high. The nail is a
horrible
aerodynamic shape, with a lot of drag generated by the head. It lacks
any
form of stabilization in flight (such as spin from a barrel's twist),
and
its mass is very low. All that said, I'm not sure what I would expect
the
trajectory to be like. I could easily doubt the 1 mile stuff that was
bantered about here in a previous thread, but at distances under 20
yards -
I don't know what I'd expect it to be. If it shot like the one video
clip
that someone posted (where they shot a clay pigeon at 25 yards), I'd
consider that to be more of a fluke than an expected trajectory. At
best, I
would not expect it to fly in a predictable orientation - but again -
that's
just gut level thought without really thinking it through. I have been
surprised before...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]