I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am looking
for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to set it
somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the only one
who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be anywhere
from 132 to 138.
I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
Any ideas about the settings?
On February 26 2004, terry boivin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
> JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
Thanks everyone. I'll try both. those 135 degree angles are a real
challenge for me though.
J
GeeDubb <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't know anything about you other than your stated opinion about how to
> install crown. You imply that someone who knows what they are doing can
> keep a coped joint from separating. In my 25 years of finish carpentry
> (started at 18 years of age) experience I've seen some damn good carpenters
> do installations that have separated due to movement in the structure of the
> house.
If there is an earthquake, anything can separate. The question is a
matter of degrees. If your standard is a good looking joint when a wall
is moving a half inch backwards and sideways, then you are right.
>
> So I'm asking you again, how does one that knows what they are doing keep
> this from happening?
Put a good backcut on the cope and spring it in and even with some
movement, it won't open.
> And what's the difference between a gap in a coped
> joint versus a gap in a mitered joint?
A gap in a miter is apparent from every view. A gap in a cope is visible
from only some. Because the shadow line matches the profile, most people
still won't notice it if it is a little open. You, he and me probably
would.
On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
TJB
>I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
>to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
>few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
>and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
>angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am looking
>for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to set it
>somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the only one
>who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be anywhere
>from 132 to 138.
>
>I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
>since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>
>Any ideas about the settings?
Well damn Geedub I didn't know you knew me or what I've done and what kind
of work I do. That's cool that you know though. Just so's ya know buddy I've
been in this line of work 20 years and I've been there and done that so to
speak. Yes shrinkage will occur that's a given but 1/2"?? Damn man that's
excessive even by today's standards. You do understand however the
difference between a joint that's in effect butted together and one that's
fitted together right? Now if the crown itself moves away from the wall,
then that's different. I think in that case I would move the hell out of the
house if I had walls moving around 1/2" or more. Shoddy building leads to
shoddy results. Simple as that. Just please do me one favor if you would.
Never assume you know things about people you couldn't possibly know it
makes you just look silly. Ok?
Jim
"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I guess then you've never worked on a new home where you can't control the
> movement of the green lumber used in the frame. I've seen this stuff
shrink
> 1/2" and leave a gap behind the drywall, especially here in the desert
where
> lumber is shipped in wet enough to spurt water when a nail is driven into
it
> and it dries in a short period of time, usually after the house is
occupied.
> Eventually, something moves and no one in this big world can know enough
to
> keep the gap from occurring. Sure, it's not the fault of the finish
> carpenter but still, a gap is a gap regardless of how the joint was put
> together.
>
> So your'e telling me you can prevent this from happening? Let me in on
your
> secret. (when you come in as the finish carpenter and have nothing else to
> do with the house construction)
>
> Gary
>
> James D. Kountz wrote:
> > The difference is someone who knows what they are doing and someone
> > who does not. Obviously. Now see if you can figure out who is
> > who......
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> terry boivin wrote:
> >>> On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
> >>> JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
> >>
> >> All that time wasted to cope when the cope joint separates just like
> >> an inside miter cut. Still looks like hell. And yes, I've seen it
> >> happen.
> >>
> >> What's the difference? Maybe I'm missing something.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>>
> >>> TJB
> >>>
> >>>> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a
> >>>> jig to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to
> >>>> miter a few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping
> >>>> (what a pain!), and am looking for a listing for miter settings
> >>>> for non-90 degree angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135
> >>>> degrees, and am looking for the right setting on the miter saw.
> >>>> I think I have to set it somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards,
> >>>> but I can't be the only one who ever had to cut one of these.
> >>>> They measure out to be anywhere from 132 to 138.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to
> >>>> go, since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any ideas about the settings?
>
>
Well said.
--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Kim Whitmyre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > So I'm asking you again, how does one that knows what they are doing
keep
> > this from happening? And what's the difference between a gap in a coped
> > joint versus a gap in a mitered joint?
> >
> >
> In my experience, a fundamental element of the coping process is the
> layout strategy: namely, you put the coped trim in the best position
> relative to the predominant view of the room. This way even if you get
> an opening of the joint, it is not as "visible" as it would be
> otherwise. With the mitered joint, the opening would be visible no
> matter what.
>
>
> IMHO, a gap in a coped joint is still preferrable to a gap in a mitered
> joint: it looks better than the open bevels of a miterer joint.
>
> Kim
Crown should always be coped, no exceptions in my book. If any wood movement
should occur a simple mitered cut is going to reveal gaps/cracks sooner or
later where a coped joint can hide them better. Besides man its just a
matter of good craftsmanship I feel. You know the old saying, its the
difference between the men and the boys? It applies here. Anyway, I posted a
chart over at alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking for your reference. Should
help you do what you're after to do.
Jim
>
> I never cope crown. It's just such a pain especially when doing 6"
stretch
> King George in oak. I do use a lot of inside cornices though which means
> the inside cuts are straight. It make the job easier plus it gives a more
> custom look (to some).
>
> Gary
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
> since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>
>
>
Go here http://www.garymkatz.com/index.htm and look under the "charts
and drawings" heading on the menu to the left. You'll see Joe Fusco's
BIG list of miter settings. As a matter of fact, look at the whole site:
one of the better sites for finish carpentry.
Kim
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> So I'm asking you again, how does one that knows what they are doing keep
> this from happening? And what's the difference between a gap in a coped
> joint versus a gap in a mitered joint?
>
>
In my experience, a fundamental element of the coping process is the
layout strategy: namely, you put the coped trim in the best position
relative to the predominant view of the room. This way even if you get
an opening of the joint, it is not as "visible" as it would be
otherwise. With the mitered joint, the opening would be visible no
matter what.
IMHO, a gap in a coped joint is still preferrable to a gap in a mitered
joint: it looks better than the open bevels of a miterer joint.
Kim
Thank you.
Jim
"Kim Whitmyre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my experience, a fundamental element of the coping process is the
> layout strategy: namely, you put the coped trim in the best position
> relative to the predominant view of the room. This way even if you get
> an opening of the joint, it is not as "visible" as it would be
> otherwise. With the mitered joint, the opening would be visible no
> matter what.
>
>
> IMHO, a gap in a coped joint is still preferrable to a gap in a mitered
> joint: it looks better than the open bevels of a miterer joint.
>
> Kim
vb53 wrote:
> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
> to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
> few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
> and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
> angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am looking
> for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to set it
> somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the only one
> who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be anywhere
> from 132 to 138.
>
> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
> since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>
> Any ideas about the settings?
Trial and error. Use a couple pieces of scrap until you get the right
angle. I usually use 1x3 to dial in the angle then cut the crown. You
still need to cut it (the crown) upside down and backwards but the long
point is at the top of the cut (the bottom of the crown).
I never cope crown. It's just such a pain especially when doing 6" stretch
King George in oak. I do use a lot of inside cornices though which means
the inside cuts are straight. It make the job easier plus it gives a more
custom look (to some).
Gary
terry boivin wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
> JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
All that time wasted to cope when the cope joint separates just like an
inside miter cut. Still looks like hell. And yes, I've seen it happen.
What's the difference? Maybe I'm missing something.
Gary
>
> TJB
>
>> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
>> to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
>> few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
>> and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
>> angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am
>> looking for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to
>> set it somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the
>> only one who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be
>> anywhere from 132 to 138.
>>
>> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
>> since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>>
>> Any ideas about the settings?
I guess then you've never worked on a new home where you can't control the
movement of the green lumber used in the frame. I've seen this stuff shrink
1/2" and leave a gap behind the drywall, especially here in the desert where
lumber is shipped in wet enough to spurt water when a nail is driven into it
and it dries in a short period of time, usually after the house is occupied.
Eventually, something moves and no one in this big world can know enough to
keep the gap from occurring. Sure, it's not the fault of the finish
carpenter but still, a gap is a gap regardless of how the joint was put
together.
So your'e telling me you can prevent this from happening? Let me in on your
secret. (when you come in as the finish carpenter and have nothing else to
do with the house construction)
Gary
James D. Kountz wrote:
> The difference is someone who knows what they are doing and someone
> who does not. Obviously. Now see if you can figure out who is
> who......
>
> Jim
>
>
> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> terry boivin wrote:
>>> On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
>>> JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
>>
>> All that time wasted to cope when the cope joint separates just like
>> an inside miter cut. Still looks like hell. And yes, I've seen it
>> happen.
>>
>> What's the difference? Maybe I'm missing something.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>>
>>> TJB
>>>
>>>> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a
>>>> jig to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to
>>>> miter a few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping
>>>> (what a pain!), and am looking for a listing for miter settings
>>>> for non-90 degree angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135
>>>> degrees, and am looking for the right setting on the miter saw.
>>>> I think I have to set it somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards,
>>>> but I can't be the only one who ever had to cut one of these.
>>>> They measure out to be anywhere from 132 to 138.
>>>>
>>>> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to
>>>> go, since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas about the settings?
James D. Kountz wrote:
> Well damn Geedub I didn't know you knew me or what I've done and what
> kind of work I do. That's cool that you know though. Just so's ya
> know buddy I've been in this line of work 20 years and I've been
> there and done that so to speak. Yes shrinkage will occur that's a
> given but 1/2"?? Damn man that's excessive even by today's standards.
> You do understand however the difference between a joint that's in
> effect butted together and one that's fitted together right? Now if
> the crown itself moves away from the wall, then that's different. I
> think in that case I would move the hell out of the house if I had
> walls moving around 1/2" or more. Shoddy building leads to shoddy
> results. Simple as that. Just please do me one favor if you would.
> Never assume you know things about people you couldn't possibly know
> it makes you just look silly. Ok?
>
> Jim
Jim-
Sorry, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I'm always trying to
learn.
I don't know anything about you other than your stated opinion about how to
install crown. You imply that someone who knows what they are doing can
keep a coped joint from separating. In my 25 years of finish carpentry
(started at 18 years of age) experience I've seen some damn good carpenters
do installations that have separated due to movement in the structure of the
house.
So I'm asking you again, how does one that knows what they are doing keep
this from happening? And what's the difference between a gap in a coped
joint versus a gap in a mitered joint?
Gary
>
> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I guess then you've never worked on a new home where you can't
>> control the movement of the green lumber used in the frame. I've
>> seen this stuff shrink 1/2" and leave a gap behind the drywall,
>> especially here in the desert where lumber is shipped in wet enough
>> to spurt water when a nail is driven into it and it dries in a short
>> period of time, usually after the house is occupied. Eventually,
>> something moves and no one in this big world can know enough to keep
>> the gap from occurring. Sure, it's not the fault of the finish
>> carpenter but still, a gap is a gap regardless of how the joint was
>> put together.
>>
>> So your'e telling me you can prevent this from happening? Let me in
>> on your secret. (when you come in as the finish carpenter and have
>> nothing else to do with the house construction)
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> James D. Kountz wrote:
>>> The difference is someone who knows what they are doing and someone
>>> who does not. Obviously. Now see if you can figure out who is
>>> who......
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> terry boivin wrote:
>>>>> On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53)
>>>>> wrote: JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope
>>>>> withit!!!
>>>>
>>>> All that time wasted to cope when the cope joint separates just
>>>> like an inside miter cut. Still looks like hell. And yes, I've
>>>> seen it happen.
>>>>
>>>> What's the difference? Maybe I'm missing something.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TJB
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a
>>>>>> jig to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to
>>>>>> miter a few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping
>>>>>> (what a pain!), and am looking for a listing for miter settings
>>>>>> for non-90 degree angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135
>>>>>> degrees, and am looking for the right setting on the miter saw.
>>>>>> I think I have to set it somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards,
>>>>>> but I can't be the only one who ever had to cut one of these.
>>>>>> They measure out to be anywhere from 132 to 138.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to
>>>>>> go, since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas about the settings?
Kim's explanation is what I was looking for. It makes sense. In all the
years I've been doing this stuff, no one ever put it so succinctly. Funny
how one can still learn new things if explained the right way (or viewed
differently!).
Gary
James D. Kountz wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "Kim Whitmyre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In my experience, a fundamental element of the coping process is the
>> layout strategy: namely, you put the coped trim in the best position
>> relative to the predominant view of the room. This way even if you
>> get an opening of the joint, it is not as "visible" as it would be
>> otherwise. With the mitered joint, the opening would be visible no
>> matter what.
>>
>>
>> IMHO, a gap in a coped joint is still preferrable to a gap in a
>> mitered joint: it looks better than the open bevels of a miterer
>> joint.
>>
>> Kim
The difference is someone who knows what they are doing and someone who does
not. Obviously. Now see if you can figure out who is who......
Jim
"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> terry boivin wrote:
> > On 26 Feb 2004 08:11:05 -0800, [email protected] (vb53) wrote:
> > JDK is correct. Inside mitres are pron to failure. Cope withit!!!
>
> All that time wasted to cope when the cope joint separates just like an
> inside miter cut. Still looks like hell. And yes, I've seen it happen.
>
> What's the difference? Maybe I'm missing something.
>
> Gary
>
> >
> > TJB
> >
> >> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
> >> to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
> >> few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
> >> and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
> >> angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am
> >> looking for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to
> >> set it somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the
> >> only one who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be
> >> anywhere from 132 to 138.
> >>
> >> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
> >> since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
> >>
> >> Any ideas about the settings?
>
>
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:19:52 -0700, "GeeDubb" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>vb53 wrote:
>> I've been involved in putting up some crown molding, and built a jig
>> to hold the molding "upside-down and backwards." I'd like to miter a
>> few inside corners to see how I do compared to coping (what a pain!),
>> and am looking for a listing for miter settings for non-90 degree
>> angles. I have a lot that are "close" to 135 degrees, and am looking
>> for the right setting on the miter saw. I think I have to set it
>> somewhere around 22.5 and not backwards, but I can't be the only one
>> who ever had to cut one of these. They measure out to be anywhere
>> from 132 to 138.
>>
>> I have a compound miter, but I think the jig is a better way to go,
>> since I don't have to trust the saw gauges as much.
>>
>> Any ideas about the settings?
>
>Trial and error. Use a couple pieces of scrap until you get the right
>angle. I usually use 1x3 to dial in the angle then cut the crown. You
>still need to cut it (the crown) upside down and backwards but the long
>point is at the top of the cut (the bottom of the crown).
>
>I never cope crown. It's just such a pain especially when doing 6" stretch
>King George in oak. I do use a lot of inside cornices though which means
>the inside cuts are straight. It make the job easier plus it gives a more
>custom look (to some).
>
>Gary
>
I use two sliding t bevels. push them into the corner so that they
fill the angle together, then sheck them against each other. adjust
them so they coincide(split the difference). repeat and rinse...