Delta Contractors Table Saw - How Accurate . . .

Steve DeMars wrote:
> Thanks for the input, comments & info . . .
> Steve

Steve,

It's not the arrow, it's the archer. An upgrade you might want for
your saw is a good miter gauge. I like the Incra that is made for
Woodcraft. I also really like the Forrest WWII saw blades.

I have a Jet 10" contractor's saw. You can see what I've made with it
at
http://home.earthlink.net/~claypen/id13.html My other equipment is a
8" Delta jointer, a Delta 13" two speed planer, a Leigh mortise and
tenon jig, and a couple of Bosch routers.

Clay

Steve DeMars wrote:
> I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
> American Made )
> Biesemeyer 30" Commercial Fence.
> Running it with 220VAC & Machined Pulleys & Link Belt from Inline.
> Have a Biesemeyer Splitter from Mikes Tools on the way.
> Any suggestions on a good all purpose blade or other accessories are very
> welcome. . . .

Wellll, a few years ago there was a fellow named Steve Strickland
claiming he tuned up his Delta Contractor's Saw to an accuracy of 50
millionths of an inch, or something to that effect. (No, really.)

You can read the threads on Google at
http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&q=strickland+saw+alignment+&qt_s=Search

> I set it up according to the manual. I did not use a "Dial Indicator" or

More seriously, a dial indicator with magnetic base is only about $25
and is a real time saver when aligning machines. Well worth the cost.

Tim

I've got a 1 horse Craftsman. I was just recently ripping some 8/4 liptus
with no problems. I'm a professional machinist so I do have the tools and
knowledge to align a saw as accurately as it could ever get, though I don't.
A dial indicator has never touched my saw. People have been doing this for a
very long time before the fancy gadgets became available. A good blade (full
kerf), reasonable alignment and good technique are all it takes. Your saw is
better than mine, you should have no problems.

"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VTrxe.85383$gc6.34284@okepread04...
> I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
> American Made )
> Biesemeyer 30" Commercial Fence.
> Running it with 220VAC & Machined Pulleys & Link Belt from Inline.
> Have a Biesemeyer Splitter from Mikes Tools on the way.
> Any suggestions on a good all purpose blade or other accessories are very
> welcome. . . .
>
> After reading post after post & page after page of info all over the net,
I
> have come to the conclusion that my saw is hopelessly inaccurate and under
> powered to do anything but produce poor cuts on 3/4" softwood to be burned
> in the fireplace this winter.
>
> I set it up according to the manual. I did not use a "Dial Indicator" or
> Laser Truing Device from NASA. The fence seems to right on with the miter
> slot and the blade seems to be also using a metal straight edge ruler (AKA
> as combination square). The alignment between the blade and the miter slot
> appeared to be right on out of the box. If high tech alignment tool is
> needed, who has the simplist & best system . . .
>
> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a
couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood,
kickback,
> etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it. How close does the
> alignment really need to be. I realize that a lot of you guys are pros
> building projects that sell for more than my saw, so maybe I'm just
reading
> to much . . .
>
> Except for the workbench I would like to build, most of the projects I'm
> looking at now are going to be plywood with solid soft and hard for trim.
> Bookcases, cabinets, entertainment center, etc . . . .
>
> Thanks in advance - I love reading this group . . .
> Steve
>
>

"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VTrxe.85383$gc6.34284@okepread04...
> I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
> American Made )
> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a
couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood,
kickback,
> etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it. How close does the
> alignment really need to be. I realize that a lot of you guys are pros
> building projects that sell for more than my saw, so maybe I'm just
reading
> to much . . .

It'll be more capable than you for the next thirty years, if mine is an
indication. While I liked the power of a Unisaw at school, I keep my blades
in better shape at home, and have not had problems. It'll do 8/4 hardwood,
to the limit in soft, and gets rechecked and cleaned every six months, full
tune every year or so, though it's mostly a matter of confirming rather than
changing.

34-410 at my house.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 03:04:07 -0500, "Steve DeMars"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
>American Made )
>Biesemeyer 30" Commercial Fence.
>Running it with 220VAC & Machined Pulleys & Link Belt from Inline.
>Have a Biesemeyer Splitter from Mikes Tools on the way.
>Any suggestions on a good all purpose blade or other accessories are very
>welcome. . . .
>
>After reading post after post & page after page of info all over the net, I
>have come to the conclusion that my saw is hopelessly inaccurate and under
>powered to do anything but produce poor cuts on 3/4" softwood to be burned
>in the fireplace this winter.

That's one of the more foolish things I've seen in a while... I've got
a TS200 (if you don't know offhand, that's one of the little Delta
benchtop models) and it will cut 5/4 hard maple all day without any
issues- and it's as accurate as I take the time to make it be. 3 or
4 mintues of setup and double-checking will give dead-on results, but
10 seconds using the indicator on the fence alone leaves me with junk.
I've seen the saw you're talking about, and it should last you
forever, unless you're running a very high-volume business. Don't
believe everything you read on the internet, or you'll never be happy
with any tool you have- there's always something that someone,
somewhere likes better than the one you've got.

About a year ago, I ran into that same wall you're describing- after
looking at the glossy pictures in the woodworking magazines, and
reading thread after thread about how every tool I had was such junk
that it was not only useless, but actually deadly to even attempt to
use, I was so skittish about it I didn't do any actually woodworking
for several months, and just kept getting more and more worried about
it. Then I actually *needed* a cabinet, and went out to the shop, and
carefully made it. What I re-discovered was that while I don't have
the Cadillac model of every tool made, that didn't actually matter. I
don't drive a luxury car, but it still gets me to where I'm going
quite well. And even though most of my tools are nearer the low end
of the Delta line than they are to the high end, they still can
produce very nice work as long as I take my time, and pay attention.

>I set it up according to the manual. I did not use a "Dial Indicator" or
>Laser Truing Device from NASA. The fence seems to right on with the miter
>slot and the blade seems to be also using a metal straight edge ruler (AKA
>as combination square). The alignment between the blade and the miter slot
>appeared to be right on out of the box. If high tech alignment tool is
>needed, who has the simplist & best system . . .

A machinist's square and a cabinet maker's rule works fine for me.
Use the square to get your blade angle to 90 degrees and set the
positive stop, then measure from the front side of the blade to the
miter slot, and from the back side of the blade to the miter slot.
When they match, it's parallel to the slot. Use the square to set the
miter gauge to 90 degrees, and adjust the positive stop. Then set the
miter gauge to 45 degrees on either side (a combination square will
work fine) and adjust the positive stops for those as well. You
don't need a high-tech alignment system unless you just happen to
really want one. People have been making things out of wood for
thousands of years, and that's a whole lot longer than Starret has
been around. Not all of that old stuff is exactly junk, either! :)

>So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
>woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a couple
>of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
>thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood, kickback,
>etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it. How close does the
>alignment really need to be. I realize that a lot of you guys are pros
>building projects that sell for more than my saw, so maybe I'm just reading
>to much . . .

Just adjust it with what you've got, and stop worrying about it.
You're reading too much- that's a nice saw, and you'll get the hang of
it in no time. Just take your time setting it up- I haven't found any
of my Delta tools to be set up correctly out of the box, but they hold
their adjustments well after you take the time to do it. If you think
the saw is underpowered, get a good thin-kerf blade and try that out
before you run out and and buy a bigger motor- but I'd be amazed if
you do actually *need* more horsepower than that saw has.

>Except for the workbench I would like to build, most of the projects I'm
>looking at now are going to be plywood with solid soft and hard for trim.
>Bookcases, cabinets, entertainment center, etc . . . .

Sounds like you got the right tool for the job- enjoy! And don't fall
into the tool-snobbery-caused-by-glossy-advertisment trap. It's fine
if you've got the money, but it's not as terribly critical to always
have the absolute best as a lot of guys would have you believe.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Wellll, a few years ago there was a fellow named Steve Strickland
> claiming he tuned up his Delta Contractor's Saw to an accuracy of 50
> millionths of an inch, or something to that effect. (No, really.)
>
>

He was proof of the saying, "ignorance is bliss".

Steve DeMars says...

> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood, kickback,
> etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it. How close does the
> alignment really need to be. I realize that a lot of you guys are pros
> building projects that sell for more than my saw, so maybe I'm just reading
> to much . . .
>
> Except for the workbench I would like to build, most of the projects I'm
> looking at now are going to be plywood with solid soft and hard for trim.
> Bookcases, cabinets, entertainment center, etc . . . .
>
> Thanks in advance - I love reading this group . . .
> Steve

If I understand correctly you haven't used it yet. Buy some Freud
blades from the home improvement box store of your choice. Get a
ripping blade, a combination blade and a finishing/laminate blade.
That's a good saw that should be the last one you ever need. You should
be able to build any kind of project with it until you are old and grey.
If you ask me, you made a wise choice and bought well the first time so
you don't have to do it over again. Just use it, get to know it and if
it has shortcomings, find out how to fix them. No tool is perfect and
there is always something that does a better job in certain
circumstances. I have a Bosch 4000 portable and I find its performance
to be perfectly adequate for my present needs. Someday I'll buy a
bigger and beefier contractor's saw and the Delta X models are at the
top of the list.

Amen!! Most of my tools are on the lower end. TS300, HF jointer & band
saw.
I'm also new (18mo) at this. But have a very nice new kitchen to show for
it. Wife is VERY pleased.
Reread Prometheus's comments. It's well put.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 03:04:07 -0500, "Steve DeMars"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
>woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a couple
>of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood

Get a good metal rule and set the saw up and start cutting. If you
find you cannot get good results then more precise tools may be needed
but generally I don't find them necessary.
Over the years I've probably set up 6 or 8 Delta (or Rockwell)
Contractors Saws with quite good results.
I currently have two Delta CS saws on the job that get used and abused
daily and another in my garage. You will find that you can rip
through oak stock as thick as your 10" blade (cranked all the way up)
will go, about 3". It's a pretty reliable saw and the more familiar
you become with it the better results you will have.
Just a note, all three of the saws have fence upgrades (over the
standard fence) and two have mitre gauges from other manufacturers.

Mike O.

Thanks for the input, comments & info . . .
Steve




"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VTrxe.85383$gc6.34284@okepread04...
> I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
> American Made )
> Biesemeyer 30" Commercial Fence.
> Running it with 220VAC & Machined Pulleys & Link Belt from Inline.
> Have a Biesemeyer Splitter from Mikes Tools on the way.
> Any suggestions on a good all purpose blade or other accessories are very
> welcome. . . .
>
> After reading post after post & page after page of info all over the net,
I
> have come to the conclusion that my saw is hopelessly inaccurate and under
> powered to do anything but produce poor cuts on 3/4" softwood to be burned
> in the fireplace this winter.
>
> I set it up according to the manual. I did not use a "Dial Indicator" or
> Laser Truing Device from NASA. The fence seems to right on with the miter
> slot and the blade seems to be also using a metal straight edge ruler (AKA
> as combination square). The alignment between the blade and the miter slot
> appeared to be right on out of the box. If high tech alignment tool is
> needed, who has the simplist & best system . . .
>
> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a
couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood,
kickback,
> etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it. How close does the
> alignment really need to be. I realize that a lot of you guys are pros
> building projects that sell for more than my saw, so maybe I'm just
reading
> to much . . .
>
> Except for the workbench I would like to build, most of the projects I'm
> looking at now are going to be plywood with solid soft and hard for trim.
> Bookcases, cabinets, entertainment center, etc . . . .
>
> Thanks in advance - I love reading this group . . .
> Steve
>
>

"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VTrxe.85383$gc6.34284@okepread04...
>I recently purchased a Delta Contractors Table Saw ( 36-451X - last of the
> American Made )
> Biesemeyer 30" Commercial Fence.
> Running it with 220VAC & Machined Pulleys & Link Belt from Inline.
> Have a Biesemeyer Splitter from Mikes Tools on the way.
> Any suggestions on a good all purpose blade or other accessories are very
> welcome. . . .

I have a Ridge Carfbde combination bladel. Got a good deal when I bou ght
it with the dado.
http://www.ridgecarbidetool.com/index.htm

Infinity makes a blade that has gotten great reviews also.
www.infinitytools.com

On the lesser end, I have a Freud Dialbo cross cut that is excellent and
i\I'd dont ripping of thinck materials with it.


>
> After reading post after post & page after page of info all over the net,
> I
> have come to the conclusion that my saw is hopelessly inaccurate and under
> powered to do anything but produce poor cuts on 3/4" softwood to be burned
> in the fireplace this winter.

Where have you been reading? Not here. I've cut 3" oak. Sure, it is a
little slower than a cabinet saw with 5 hp, bt I don't cut 3" oak every day.

>
> I set it up according to the manual. I did not use a "Dial Indicator" or
> Laser Truing Device from NASA. The fence seems to right on with the miter
> slot and the blade seems to be also using a metal straight edge ruler (AKA
> as combination square). The alignment between the blade and the miter slot
> appeared to be right on out of the box. If high tech alignment tool is
> needed, who has the simplist & best system . . .

Mine was right on also with no fancy tools to measure. Works for me.

>
> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a
> couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood,
> kickback,
> etc . . .

I've done owrk I'm proud of. It is as accurate and cuts as well as you
could ever want for 985 of what you will do for a long time. It will be my
last saw as I've done everything needed and anticipate.



> Can I simply put a larger motor on it.

But why?


>
> Except for the workbench I would like to build, most of the projects I'm
> looking at now are going to be plywood with solid soft and hard for trim.
> Bookcases, cabinets, entertainment center, etc . . . .

I think you have all the saw you will ever need.

"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> So if someone could please tell me who has used a Delta CS to do some real
> woodworking, the kind that my skill level will not see for at least a
couple
> of years . . . . what is the capability of this saw in terms of hardwood
> thickness & just how accurate does it need to be to not burn wood,
kickback,
> etc . . . Can I simply put a larger motor on it.

I've got a Rockwell Beaver contractors' table saw. It's a little over thirty
years old. Rockwell eventually became Delta I believe. With it's cheap stock
fence, plain steel blade and 1 hp motor, thirty years ago I was using it to
build aquarium units which I sold to a friend of mine with a pet store. It
did the job then.

In 1992 I added a carbide, combination, 60 tooth blade and an excalibur
fence to it for the purpose of building an entertainment unit out of
veneered plywood and oak face frame. Other than your not mentioning what
horsepower your saw is and if you had a carbide blade, it sounds pretty
close to what I've got aside from that fact that I run mine on 120v. If you
don't have a carbide blade, that should be your first purchase.

With my setup, I've cut oak, maple, cherry and walnut on it. Not necessarily
the hardest woods, but hard enough. From the setup you've done, your saw
should be cutting properly. Burning is usually the result of blade and fence
misalignment or too slow of a feed rate. Can't think of anything else.