I'm throwing my CAD software away

Pops,
Go to your local college book store and find out which book is being used.
Drafting is much more than drawing lines a certain length and connecting
them. You will find that geometry comes in to play quite often and that
there are many short cuts that eliminate the need to use a scale when
needing to draw lines an exact direction or length.

>I have decided to throw my software away.

Maybe a moderately priced 3D program
like Truespace would be more interest-
ing for you than CAD, you can still do
dimensionally accurate work but have
a lot more freedom to use intuition.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:01:49 GMT, "Pops" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, I read everybody's comments on my last post about looking for some
>tutorial help with TurboCAD and I have decided to throw my software away.
>
>I spend all day at work on the computer, I read e-mails, I write memos, I
>build spreadsheets and I read the WRECK (oops, not suppose to say that
><grin>).
>
>Well it dawned on me last night. I LOVE spending time in the workshop so I
>am going to buy drafting equipment and go a different route. I don't spend
>enough time in the shop and this would be a great way to turn on the talk
>shows (now that would be a post for a political news group!) and do some old
>fashioned drafting.
>
>Many of you said that is where you should start and I did have one class at
>a Junior College years ago but may as well act like I never had one.
>
>Any suggestions on a good drafting textbook? Of everyone who said you need
>the drafting concepts and skills before you learn CAD, only one person
>listed a textbook and it was Mechanical Drawing, French and Svensen. Don't
>know if it is in print (Amazon / Barnes&Noble are next).
>
>If anyone has suggestions, I would welcome them.
>
>Thanks for all your comments on the previous thread.
>
>Pops
>

manual drafting seems a dying art , scale rule , adjustable set square
, and all that stuff that teaches spacial awareness on large drawing
board.
look up geometry and persective for example.

books by A.C Parkinson , a series printed in the 60s
Engineering workshop Drawing
Intermediate Engineering Drawing
Foundations of Technical Drawing
Pictorial Drawing for Engineers.

published by Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons Ltd

go to abe.com and search for books by a c parkinson there are tons of
his drawing books listed for a small sum
that should sort you out , no more excuses !!!
***********************************************************************************

A.C. PARKINSON
A FIRST YEAR ENGINEERING DRAWING
LONDON: SIR ISAAC PITMAN AND SONS, 1934. BOARDS. Very Good/No Jacket
AS ISSUED. SECOND. Bookseller Inventory #002983
Price: US$ 6.67 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: WEBBOOKSUK(Jim and Anne Vogler), WIGTOWN NEWTON STEWART,
United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)



3. Parkinson, A C
Intermediate engineering drawing including a course in plane and
solid geometry, and an introduction to design
Pitman 1947. Very Good. 2nd edition tenth impression Illustrated
with line drawings throughout Theavy card covers. Bookseller Inventory
#430038
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Uncle Phil's Books, Coventry, West Midlands, UK, United
Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)




5. PARKINSON, A C:
Intermediate engineering drawing:
London: Pitman, 1947: 2nd ed. 10th imp. Hbk; small 4to; pp187;
index; cover is boards; Vg for age; includes a course in plane and
solid geometry, and an introduction to design; Bookseller Inventory
#2164
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Peakirk Books, Peterborough, CAM, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


6. A.C. Parkinson
A First Year Engineering Drawing
London: Pitman, 1953. Paper Covered Boards. Very Good/Good. Fourth
Edition. Hardback. 7" x 10". 182 pages including index and crammed
with technical illustrations. Dustjacket repaired with large pieces
missing. Bookseller Inventory #003906
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Bosco Books, Looe, Cornwall, CON, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


7. A. C. Parkinson
A First Year Engineering Drawing
London: Pitman, 1959. Paper Covered Boards. Very Good/Fair. Reprint.
Hardback. 7" x 10". Covers and contents clean and bright. Dustjacket
torn with pieces missing. 190 pages. Bookseller Inventory #009473
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Bosco Books, Looe, Cornwall, CON, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


8. Parkinson A C
Success In Engineering: Guide To Careers In All Branches Of
Engineering, Building And Technology
National Institute Of Engineering. London nd, G copy, has some
slight soiling, card pictorial covers are edgeworn and have minor
foxing/soiling. Bookseller Inventory #00900
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Much-More Books, Much Wenlock, SAL, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


9. A.C.Parkinson, Illustrated by A First Year. Engineering Drawing

London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, 1955. Stiff Card Covers.
Good+/Good. 4th Edition. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. 182pp with index,
text, drawings and pull out plans. Not price clipped, no inscriptions.
A clean copy with some wear to corners of dj and a little to head/heel
of spine. Bookseller Inventory #2462
Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: WEST WESSEX BOOKS, Taunton, SOM, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)





12. Parkinson, A. C.:
A first year engineering drawing covering the first year National
Certificate Course in Mechanical Drawing
London : Pitman, 1953. 4th edition (with minor additions). Hardback
in a protected dust jacket. VG/VG. With a foreword on the teaching of
the subject by J.H. Currie. Bookseller Inventory #20773
Price: US$ 9.18 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Active Booksearch, Grantham, LIN, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


13. Parkinson, A. C.:
A first year engineering drawing covering the first year National
Certificate Course in Mechanical Drawing
London : Pitman, 1953. 4th edition (with minor additions). Hardback
in a protected dust jacket. VG/VG. With a foreword on the teaching of
the subject by J.H. Currie. Bookseller Inventory #20773
Price: US$ 9.18 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Gravity Books, Grantham, Lincs, LIN, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


14. Parkinson, A C
Intermediate engineering Drawing
Pitman 1943. Some coursework loosely inserted. Printed boards. TP
torn, no loss o/w near VG. Bookseller Inventory #403
Price: US$ 9.59 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Booked to Enjoy, Cairndow, Scotland, Arg, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


15. Parkinson, A C
Intermediate Engineering Drawing
Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons. Good, hardcover. 1947. Including a course
in plane and solid geometry and an introduction to design. Bookseller
Inventory #g0757
Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Repeated Reading, Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)








18. A. C. Parkinson
Intermediate Engineering Drawing Including a Course in Plane and
Solid Geometry and an Introduction to Design
London: Sir Isaac Pitman, 1959. Photo Available Any Angle. Very
Good/Very Good. very clean tight in unclipped dust jacket with the
slightest of chips to the jacket. Bookseller Inventory #c1061
Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: John L Cooper, Great Yarmouth, NFK, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


19. A.C.Parkinson
Intermediate Engineering Drawing
London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, 1954. Very Good/Very Good. Fourth
Edition. Small 4to. 247 pp , Many drawing examples and two inserts .
Bookseller Inventory #005500
Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Croft Selections, Market Rasen, LIN, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


20. A.C.Parkinson
A First Year Engineering Drawing
London: Issac Pitman, 1955. Hard Cover. Good/Good. Reprint. 8vo -
over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. 182pp. A nice clean copy,d.j.a little torn on the
top edge, otherwise sound and firm. Bookseller Inventory #3050
Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: WEST WESSEX BOOKS, Taunton, SOM, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


21. Parkinson, A. C.
A First Year Engineering Drawing Covering the First Year National
Certificate Course in Mechanical Engineering
London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, Ltd. 1941. Hard Cover. Very
Good+/Good. Fifth Edition. There is a little rubbing on the spine ends
o/w a very crisp, clean and tight 4to book of 182 page, 291 figs and
tables. The unclipped dustwrapper has small pieces missing on the
extremities and has supportive repairs. Bookseller Inventory #010105
Price: US$ 10.84 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Recycling Books, Gloucestershire, UK, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


22. PARKINSON, A.C. & AYRES, E.A.
Geometrical and mechanical drawing: Book 1: Plane geometry
London: Pitmans, 1964 - 1st edn. 4to., vii, 88pp., profusely
illustrated with line drawings. Ex-lib., usual library stamps, remains
of label fep. Orig. bdg., btm cnr. bmpd., o/w in Very Good condition
Geometrical and mechanical drawi ng: Book 1: Plane geometry.
Bookseller Inventory #1764
Price: US$ 10.84 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Mary Bradley-Cox, Bournemouth, DOR, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)




24. Parkinson A C:
A First Year Engineering Drawing
Pitman 1964. 190pp Ills by dwgsvg+ in poor dw. Bookseller Inventory
#4058
Price: US$ 11.68 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: NIGEL BIRD BOOKS, TREGARON, DFD, United Kingdom (Search
this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


25. A.C.Parkinson A.C.P.(hons) F.Coll.H. F.I.E.D., Illustrated by
Diagrams
A First Year Engineering Drawing
London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, Ltd. 1955. Hard Cover. 4th Edition
(reprint). 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Covering the first year National
Certificate ~Course in Mechanical Engineering. In very good, clean and
tight condition. Bookseller Inventory #000310
Price: US$ 12.51 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Antom Books, Driffield, EY, United Kingdom (Search this
Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


26. Parkinson, A C
Engineering Inspection
London, United Kingdom: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons. Fair. in No DJ
Issued Ex-military library, edges scuffed and has one inch of damage
to top of spine. A photograph of this book is available. Binding is
Hard Cover. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Bookseller Inventory #6016
Price: US$ 12.51 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Lost Books, Swaffham, NOR, United Kingdom (Search this
Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


27. A.C PARKINSON
INTERMEDIATE ENGINEERING DRAWING
ENGLISH HARDBACK 5TH EDITION 1961 DUST JACKETY VERY GOOD PLUS BOOK
FINE. ISBN:0273406930 Bookseller Inventory #KS4063
Price: US$ 13.35 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: R.F. & C WARD ( Book Dealers Est.1984 ), NORFOLK, NFK,
United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


28. Parkinson, A. C.
Pictorial Drawing for Engineers
London: Pitman & Sons, 1953. Hard Cover. Good/No Jacket. First
Edition. Large 8vo. A clean sound copy of this classic. School library
stamps on fep but no other ex-lib signs. Bookseller Inventory #2887
Price: US$ 13.35 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: NorWest Books (UK), Carlisle, CMA, United Kingdom
(Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)


30. Parkinson, A C
A First Year Engineering Drawing; covering the first year nationa l
certificate course in mechanical engineering
Pitman 6th ed 1961. Pitman 6th ed 1961 VG book P dj hardback ISBN:
Bookseller Inventory #10107
Price: US$ 13.43 (Convert Currency)
Bookseller: Brown Studies, Airdrie, Lanarkshire, SCOTLAND, CEN,
United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)

I have not heard of this program do they have a web site ???

Thank You
George
"BUB 209" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >I have decided to throw my software away.
>
> Maybe a moderately priced 3D program
> like Truespace would be more interest-
> ing for you than CAD, you can still do
> dimensionally accurate work but have
> a lot more freedom to use intuition.

Jay Windley wrote:

>
> But if my work with CAD/CAE/CAM has taught me anything, it's that the skill
> of producing a design on a sheet of paper using nothing but a square, a
> straightedge, a compass, and a pencil, is *not* an outmoded, archaic, or
> useless skill.
>


Jay,

Thank you for this post.

--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f0bsb.175265$e01.612968@attbi_s02...
|
| I was talking to a draftsman (yes, I use the old, politically incorrect
| term) a while back...

I probably should have been paying more attention to this thread. My
academic experience has been in computer design methods for engineers, and
my early professional experience was in developing automation methods for
design engineering -- integrated assembly design, etc. Much of that
discussion applies here.

I learned paper-and-pencil drafting. I like paper-and-pencil drafting. I'm
good and paper-and-pencil drafting. My work with CAD was primarily to
address why people don't use it in the early stages of design. The answer
is that it's clunky and restricts creativity in the early stages. People
who come up with the best geometric designs, whether it be a gearbox bearing
for a rocket engine or an elegant console table, think visually and
"brainstorm" visually. CAD systems, in general, provide poor tool sets and
methods for supporting this way of thinking.

My most beloved mentor was a guy who worked as a mechanical engineer on the
Apollo spacecraft, the docking mechanisms to be precise. This guy is still
a practicing engineer, and although he is big into CAD, he still carries
with him everywhere a pad of that pale green grid paper that engineers like
to use. He spends every spare minute drawing something on that pad
freehand.

My experience has been that those who are best at design in general are
those who can draw with pencil, even if the final design is on a CAD system.
Further, those who are the best at design can draw well freehand. There
seems to be a very strong correlation between those who can express
themselves visually and accurately WITHOUT a CAD system, and those who
produce quality, usable, visually appealing designs intended toward any
purpose or recorded in any medium.

In technical drawing we learned the tedious process of "geometric
construction" (e.g., constructing a hexagon using only simple drafting
tools). CAD systems all but eliminate geometric construction. You click on
"hexagon" and drag it where you need it and size it to what you wanted.
That's not really the point. By learning -- even via tedium -- the simple
basis from which complex shapes and relationships are made, you expand your
spatial vocabulary.

CAD is here to stay, but CAD is not the solution to all design problems.
CAD is great for managing the complexity of commercial design needs, for
automating some of the time-consuming elements of design, and other
efficiency-oriented things. The business of design requires this level of
efficiency. It is less well suited to the task of "capturing ideas on
paper". And, sadly, it should be. It's wasteful to put an idea on paper
and, in a separate effort, put in in a computer.

But if my work with CAD/CAE/CAM has taught me anything, it's that the skill
of producing a design on a sheet of paper using nothing but a square, a
straightedge, a compass, and a pencil, is *not* an outmoded, archaic, or
useless skill.

"Jay Windley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:f0bsb.175265$e01.612968@attbi_s02...
> |
> | I was talking to a draftsman (yes, I use the old, politically incorrect
> | term) a while back...
>
> I probably should have been paying more attention to this thread. My
> academic experience has been in computer design methods for engineers, and
> my early professional experience was in developing automation methods for
> design engineering -- integrated assembly design, etc. Much of that
> discussion applies here.
>
> I learned paper-and-pencil drafting. I like paper-and-pencil drafting. I'm
> good and paper-and-pencil drafting. My work with CAD was primarily to
> address why people don't use it in the early stages of design. The answer
> is that it's clunky and restricts creativity in the early stages. People
> who come up with the best geometric designs, whether it be a gearbox bearing
> for a rocket engine or an elegant console table, think visually and
> "brainstorm" visually. CAD systems, in general, provide poor tool sets and
> methods for supporting this way of thinking.
>
> My most beloved mentor was a guy who worked as a mechanical engineer on the
> Apollo spacecraft, the docking mechanisms to be precise. This guy is still
> a practicing engineer, and although he is big into CAD, he still carries
> with him everywhere a pad of that pale green grid paper that engineers like
> to use. He spends every spare minute drawing something on that pad
> freehand.
>
> My experience has been that those who are best at design in general are
> those who can draw with pencil, even if the final design is on a CAD system.
> Further, those who are the best at design can draw well freehand. There
> seems to be a very strong correlation between those who can express
> themselves visually and accurately WITHOUT a CAD system, and those who
> produce quality, usable, visually appealing designs intended toward any
> purpose or recorded in any medium.
>
> In technical drawing we learned the tedious process of "geometric
> construction" (e.g., constructing a hexagon using only simple drafting
> tools). CAD systems all but eliminate geometric construction. You click on
> "hexagon" and drag it where you need it and size it to what you wanted.
> That's not really the point. By learning -- even via tedium -- the simple
> basis from which complex shapes and relationships are made, you expand your
> spatial vocabulary.
>
> CAD is here to stay, but CAD is not the solution to all design problems.
> CAD is great for managing the complexity of commercial design needs, for
> automating some of the time-consuming elements of design, and other
> efficiency-oriented things. The business of design requires this level of
> efficiency. It is less well suited to the task of "capturing ideas on
> paper". And, sadly, it should be. It's wasteful to put an idea on paper
> and, in a separate effort, put in in a computer.
>
> But if my work with CAD/CAE/CAM has taught me anything, it's that the skill
> of producing a design on a sheet of paper using nothing but a square, a
> straightedge, a compass, and a pencil, is *not* an outmoded, archaic, or
> useless skill.

Kudos to Jay
Well said . I'm an older Engineer and learned Mechanical Drawing with
pencil and paper. I've been into computers and since the TRS - 80.
Those who remeber it are as old as me. I'm a slave to computers and
lost my drawind skills (if I had any at all). Anyway people lose sight
of the fact that computers only help to speed what humans instruct it
to do not create or design.

"Pops" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, I read everybody's comments on my last post about looking for some
> tutorial help with TurboCAD and I have decided to throw my software away.
> ...
> Well it dawned on me last night. I LOVE spending time in the workshop so I
> am going to buy drafting equipment and go a different route. I don't spend
> enough time in the shop and this would be a great way to turn on the talk
> shows (now that would be a post for a political news group!) and do some old
> fashioned drafting.
>

That's the spirit!

>
> If anyone has suggestions, I would welcome them.
>

I suggest a pencil with an eraser, a ruler and a pad of graph paper with
4 lines/inch.

--

FF

I was talking to a draftsman (yes, I use the old, politically incorrect
term) a while back. He was saying that some of the architects that sent
drawings to them still did their drawings on a board. He was complaining
that they would have to redraw them in CAD so they could do the details. I
asked him why they don't just put it on the board and do the details. He
said that no one where he worked knew how.


"Serial # @@@@@" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> manual drafting seems a dying art , scale rule , adjustable set square
> , and all that stuff that teaches spacial awareness on large drawing
> board.
> look up geometry and persective for example.

Go here: http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0002.16 and download the
Learning Edition. You will have to fill out a form. Don't worry about
that. Imsi is a reputable company and does not spam you. You may hear from
then 3 or 4 times a year. The Learning Edition is in actuality Turbocad
Version 4 Professional. It was the last one they put out before going 3D. Be
sure to go here: http://www.imsisoft.com/faminfo.asp?fam=1 and check out
the user discussion forums. It is extremely active and you will find the
members very helpful. There is even a category for woodworkers.


"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> May I have your Turbo Cad? I'll gladly pay shipping. Lawrence
>
>
>
> On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:01:49 GMT, "Pops" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, I read everybody's comments on my last post about looking for some
> >tutorial help with TurboCAD and I have decided to throw my software away.
> >
> >I spend all day at work on the computer, I read e-mails, I write memos, I
> >build spreadsheets and I read the WRECK (oops, not suppose to say that
> ><grin>).
> >
> >Well it dawned on me last night. I LOVE spending time in the workshop so
I
> >am going to buy drafting equipment and go a different route. I don't
spend
> >enough time in the shop and this would be a great way to turn on the talk
> >shows (now that would be a post for a political news group!) and do some
old
> >fashioned drafting.
> >
> >Many of you said that is where you should start and I did have one class
at
> >a Junior College years ago but may as well act like I never had one.
> >
> >Any suggestions on a good drafting textbook? Of everyone who said you
need
> >the drafting concepts and skills before you learn CAD, only one person
> >listed a textbook and it was Mechanical Drawing, French and Svensen.
Don't
> >know if it is in print (Amazon / Barnes&Noble are next).
> >
> >If anyone has suggestions, I would welcome them.
> >
> >Thanks for all your comments on the previous thread.
> >
> >Pops
> >
>

May I have your Turbo Cad? I'll gladly pay shipping. Lawrence



On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:01:49 GMT, "Pops" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well, I read everybody's comments on my last post about looking for some
>tutorial help with TurboCAD and I have decided to throw my software away.
>
>I spend all day at work on the computer, I read e-mails, I write memos, I
>build spreadsheets and I read the WRECK (oops, not suppose to say that
><grin>).
>
>Well it dawned on me last night. I LOVE spending time in the workshop so I
>am going to buy drafting equipment and go a different route. I don't spend
>enough time in the shop and this would be a great way to turn on the talk
>shows (now that would be a post for a political news group!) and do some old
>fashioned drafting.
>
>Many of you said that is where you should start and I did have one class at
>a Junior College years ago but may as well act like I never had one.
>
>Any suggestions on a good drafting textbook? Of everyone who said you need
>the drafting concepts and skills before you learn CAD, only one person
>listed a textbook and it was Mechanical Drawing, French and Svensen. Don't
>know if it is in print (Amazon / Barnes&Noble are next).
>
>If anyone has suggestions, I would welcome them.
>
>Thanks for all your comments on the previous thread.
>
>Pops
>

Try this one out if you can find it somewhere.
Engineering Graphics Fundamentals
by Arvid R. Eide

Bert G. Plank
Newfoundland, Canada

Leon,
thanks for the advice. I actually went onto Amazon and ordered 3 text books.
1 Very old (1966), one more current and one that supposedly covers both
Drafting and CAD (I know, I know, the CD isn't in the garbage yet but my
coffee cup is eyeing it as a coaster).

Grand total for all 3 including shipping was something like $40.00. A couple
of them I got for less than $5.00 and they were recommended by people in the
wreck. I spent another $100 on supplies (including a table top board with
slide). I'm off and running. Now if I could just get the wife and kids to
sleep in a couple more hours each day...................

Oh yea, and last time my library had a book sale, I picked up a book on
Geometry for a couple of buck too.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> Pops,
> Go to your local college book store and find out which book is being used.
> Drafting is much more than drawing lines a certain length and connecting
> them. You will find that geometry comes in to play quite often and that
> there are many short cuts that eliminate the need to use a scale when
> needing to draw lines an exact direction or length.
>
>
>