Hi all,
I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
anything ;)
Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
didn't help much at all.
Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
dark enough with two coats of stain.
The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
Thanks,
Mike
"Mike Reed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d0d2bcc9-cc2c-4f79-b4fa-3497d807e5c7@k36g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
> I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
> to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
> All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
> anything ;)
>
> Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
> crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
> didn't help much at all.
>
> Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
> the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
> shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
> dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
> The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
> For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
> based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
> and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
> Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
> out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
I made a cherry coffee table for someone who felt the same way as your wife.
I used a gel stain from Bartley. The color I used was Pennsylvania Cherry,
but you would have to test to find what you want. Rockler used to carry it,
but I believe they now carry General Finishes. Gel stains in general are
designed to reduce blotchiness.
todd
Mike Reed wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
> I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
> to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
> All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
> anything ;)
>
> Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
> crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
> didn't help much at all.
>
> Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
> the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
> shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
> dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
> The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
> For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
> based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
> and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
> Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
> out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
>
Semi-gloss dark brown paint, if you really have to colour cherry.
--
Froz...
Sorry for the late reply.
Try using Lye. Get some Red Devil lye. It is sold as powder at
hardware stores. Mix some up with warm water. Paint the Cherry. See a
few years worth of darkening occur in an instant.
Vary the strength and exposure time. Lye is dangerous and caustic. Use
good gloves, respirator, goggles. Neutralize the wood after a few
seconds or a few minutes depending on strength of lye mixture using
1/2 and 1/2 water and vinegar.
Careful. Lye will deteriorate the wood if too strong. Great stuff.
On Nov 30, 6:28=A0am, Mike Reed <[email protected]> wrote:
> SWMBO correction: we're looking for this lighter finishhttp://preview.tin=
yurl.com/6rg6tj(I still can't get this dark without
> blotching)
On Nov 30, 8:05=A0am, Mike Reed <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I know we shouldn't be stainingcherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
> I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need thecherry
> to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:http://preview.=
tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
> All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
> anything ;)
>
> Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
> crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
> didn't help much at all.
>
> Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
> the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
> shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
> dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
Quick update. I'm having good luck with tinting shellac. I'm sealing
with 20/80 mix of denatured alcohol/shellac, then adding a layer of
tinted shellac. It's looking nice, I just need to get it repeatable
now that I'm zeroing in on the color.
Man, I've taken three boards down to paper on the jointer cleaning up
fresh surfaces for this testing.
Almost there though.
I may take a look at the BLO/Turp/Shellac mix, as well as the lye.
Thanks for those suggestions.
-Mike
> The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
> For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
> based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
> and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
> Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
> out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish oncherry?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
KIMOSABE wrote:
> I started thinking about your emphatic response that paint thinner
> could not be substituted for turps here. Not that I was about to
> try
> it, but it's always nice to find economical alternative.
Trust your nose.
Paint thinner is s......o generic.
Turps OTOH.........
There is just something about the smell.
Lew
If you have paid the money for cherry - and have to have it aged now -
then get out some lye water and try that. Use a scrap to verify
function and verify strength needed.
The lye brings out the color IIRC. Long time used to speed up or
match a repair or splice.
Martin
Mike Reed wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
> I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
> to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
> All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
> anything ;)
>
> Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
> crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
> didn't help much at all.
>
> Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
> the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
> shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
> dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
> The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
> For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
> based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
> and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
> Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
> out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
Mike Reed wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
> I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
> to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
[snip]
I use transtint dyes for most coloring these days. Start with a spit
coat of dewaxed shellac (1# cut). Then you can add a couple drops of
transtint red to a pint of 2# shellac. Add amount of red to taste.
Then you can add more shellac or poly/oils as you like.
That said, the photos show what appears to be naturally darkened cherry.
As Phish said, no more is necessary.
mahalo,
jo4hn
KIMOSABE wrote:
>
>
>
> Question: In a formula like this, is there much difference in using
> real turpentine vs. paint thinner?
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
<G>
BTW, Why would you cut the turpentine in favor of more oil? What do you
see improved?
KIMOSABE wrote:
> On Dec 2, 6:59 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> KIMOSABE wrote:
>>
>>> Question: In a formula like this, is there much difference in using
>>> real turpentine vs. paint thinner?
>> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSS!
>> <G>
>>
>> BTW, Why would you cut the turpentine in favor of more oil? What do you
>> see improved?
>
> Good question. This is the only version I've used, and that was pre
> 1970, so I don't remember anything detailed about it. I'll write to a
> friend who may make a reasonable guess at the formula. I'll see what
> he can remember about it.
I ask because I use the 33/33/33 mix as a colorant under water based
lacquer on most of my work. After using gallons of the stuff, I can't
imagine much good coming from more oil, only an increase in drying time
and a possibility of oil bleeding from pores.
I call it "Robert's Blend", as he told me about it. <G>
"Renata" wrote
> See if she likes what you get when you swab the cherry with a double
> application of:
>
> Mixed together
> 1/3 shellac (1# cut I believe, or Zinsser Seal Coat)
> 1/3 BLO
> 1/3 turpentine
>
> One of the regulars' (Swingman? Nailshooter?, ...?) recipe, given
> when I was havin' a heck of a time with straight BLO not drying fast
> enough.
IIRC, Robert (nailshooter) ... when it comes to finishing, I'm in
kindergarten, Robert's outta grad school.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Dec 3, 3:27=A0pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> I ask because I use the 33/33/33 mix as a colorant under water based
> lacquer on most of my work. =A0 =A0After using gallons of the stuff, I ca=
n't
> imagine much good coming from more oil, only an increase in drying time
> and a possibility of oil bleeding from pores.
>
> I call it "Robert's Blend", as he told me about it. =A0<G>
OK. You've got me convinced. I may not even have the right formula.
My friend couldn't remember the mix we used.
Based on an earlier reply of yours, you've got me interested in
turpentine.
I started thinking about your emphatic response that paint thinner
could not be substituted for turps here. Not that I was about to try
it, but it's always nice to find economical alternative.
Paint thinner is a good polar solvent so it's fine in oil based
paints, but in this formula it wouldn't work for the shellac. If
shellac is thinned with alcohol, it must be somewhat polar. So we've
got a mixing-oil-with-water kind of problem going. I Googled around
and found out that turpentine will hold them both. Neat trick. (oil
and alcohol, not oil and water.)
Do you think all the turpentine evaporates off or does some of it
become a constituent in the finish?
On Dec 2, 6:59=A0pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> KIMOSABE wrote:
>
> > Question: =A0In a formula like this, is there much difference in using
> > real turpentine vs. paint thinner?
>
> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS=
SS SSSSSSSSSSSSS!
> =A0 =A0<G>
>
> BTW, Why would you cut the turpentine in favor of more oil? =A0What do yo=
u
> see improved?
Good question. This is the only version I've used, and that was pre
1970, so I don't remember anything detailed about it. I'll write to a
friend who may make a reasonable guess at the formula. I'll see what
he can remember about it.
On Dec 1, 7:36=A0am, Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
> See if she likes what you get when you swab the cherry with a double
> application of:
>
> Mixed together
> 1/3 shellac (1# cut I believe, or Zinsser Seal Coat)
> 1/3 =A0BLO
> 1/3 turpentine
>
There's a lot of wiggle room here to adjust the proportions. There's
a version of this called 40 - 40 - 20Mixed together
40% shellac
40% BLO
20% turpentine
Question: In a formula like this, is there much difference in using
real turpentine vs. paint thinner?
See if she likes what you get when you swab the cherry with a double
application of:
Mixed together
1/3 shellac (1# cut I believe, or Zinsser Seal Coat)
1/3 BLO
1/3 turpentine
One of the regulars' (Swingman? Nailshooter?, ...?) recipe, given
when I was havin' a heck of a time with straight BLO not drying fast
enough.
Renata
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:05:04 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
>I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
>to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
>http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
>All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
>anything ;)
>
>Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
>crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
>didn't help much at all.
>
>Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
>the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
>shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
>dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
>The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
>For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
>based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
>and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
>Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
>out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:05:04 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I know we shouldn't be staining cherry, but SWMBO believes otherwise.
>I'm building my first set of kitchen cabinets, and I need the cherry
>to come out with a dark slightly reddish stain, like this:
>http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rxp85
>
>All my work so far is with a test piece, so I haven't damaged
>anything ;)
>
>Of course, my first attempts with various stain colors blotched like
>crazy. I tried some standard Minwax pre-stain conditioner, and that
>didn't help much at all.
>
>Then I tried shellac. If I sand the shellac lightly, then I can't get
>the stain very dark, but the blotching is minimal. If I sand the
>shellac more heavily, the blotching is a lot worse, but I can get it
>dark enough with two coats of stain.
>
>The stains I'm using are standard oil-based Minwax "Finish" stains.
>For some reason, they named their stain as "finish" when the water-
>based stains became popular. They now call water-based stains "stain,"
>and oil-based stain "finish" O_o
>
>Anyway, does anyone have a simple finishing schedule that will turn
>out a satin to semi-gloss dark-stained finish on cherry?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
Did you explain to SWMBO that cherry darkens naturally with age to a
patina that can not be applied? Any stain won't look as good. Like
pine, cherry blotches very easily. You can use a gel stain and apply
a shellac spit coat before the stain. Tung oil will give you
excellent results you won't regret. Get more test pieces.
KIMOSABE wrote:
> I started thinking about your emphatic response that paint thinner
> could not be substituted for turps here. Not that I was about to try
> it, but it's always nice to find economical alternative.
Be aware that there is a petroleum based product called "Turps" that is
not pure pine turpentine. Don't confuse them.
> Do you think all the turpentine evaporates off or does some of it
> become a constituent in the finish?
I have no idea. I don't use it as a "finish", as I doubt it would offer
much protection, and it doesn't provide an even sheen. If I wanted
sheen, I'd overcoat with plain shellac. If I didn't, I'd simply danish
oil the piece.
The 33/33/33 mix is a very fast drying wipe-on sealer that colors the
wood nicely and greatly reduces grain raising of water based lacquer.
I can overcoat it quickly without worrying about the oil screwing up the
WB product. The same can not be said for straight oil or "natural"
stains. I have to wait many days or add an extra step of dewaxed
shellac to avoid problems.
"Mike Reed" wrote
> Man, I've taken three boards down to paper on the jointer cleaning up
> fresh surfaces for this testing.
>
> Almost there though.
>
> I may take a look at the BLO/Turp/Shellac mix, as well as the lye.
> Thanks for those suggestions.
The lye solution is probably your best bet for hurrying cherry along.
Another option that hasn't been mentioned is that it can also be fumed with
ammonia.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)