a

26/01/2006 8:36 AM

Where can I get good safety glasses?

I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.

Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?


This topic has 29 replies

FB

Frank Boettcher

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 5:01 PM

On 26 Jan 2006 11:12:50 -0800, "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?
>
>I have a few pairs of Uvex Genesis safety glasses - my wife gets them
>free from her work, but they're available if you look around or DAGS.
>I've found them very comfortable and I can't see any distortion at all
>- they come in various types of tinted lenses and clear. My wife and
>her co-workers wear them all day long at work and have never had any
>complaints about comfort or distortion.
>Andy


Can you get them tinted with a bifocal reading section built in? I saw
some in a catalog somewhere but I can't remember where. I have a
clear pair with a 250 power reading bifocal that are so old that the
label has faded. They are polycarbonate but don't have any
distortion. They have the adjustable ear pieces that make they very
comfortable. I'm looking for the same thing tinted for outdoor work.

Aa

"Andy"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 11:12 AM

>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?

I have a few pairs of Uvex Genesis safety glasses - my wife gets them
free from her work, but they're available if you look around or DAGS.
I've found them very comfortable and I can't see any distortion at all
- they come in various types of tinted lenses and clear. My wife and
her co-workers wear them all day long at work and have never had any
complaints about comfort or distortion.
Andy

BE

Brian Elfert

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 10:23 PM

[email protected] writes:

>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
>on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
>long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
>that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
>sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.

>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?

I had the same problem with some safety glasses I recently bought at Sam's
Club. Slight optical distortion plus they attract dust like crazy. No
headaches because I didn't wear them for long.

I'm looking for a recommendation on safety glasses too. All of mine are
scratched from laying on concrete and such.

Brian Elfert

Br

Ba r r y

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 11:33 PM

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:58:08 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>Just posted one to abpw. Hopefully it will show up soon.

Thanks!

I tried that in the past and it didn't work out.

Either the size of my head, the shape, or both, prevented the headband
from sitting properly. I could get the band big enough to go over,
but the shield wouldn't flip up properly and moved around if I looked
in certain directions. With the radio muffs, the antenna, and
possibly the knobs, interfered with the shield movement

Glad to hear it works for you, and thanks again for the photo!

Barry.

GG

"George"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 4:58 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
> on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
> long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
> that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
> sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
> Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?
>

Industrial supply place. Take a couple pieces of paper with grids printed
on them and view them through the lenses at a distance. Move the glasses
side to side and up and down. If the lines move, don't get the glasses.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 11:41 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
>on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
>long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
>that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
>sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?

Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
protection. Never forget that there are other things on your face besides your
eyes that are worth protecting -- such as your teeth or your nose.
>

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Br

Ba r r y

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 12:16 AM

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:41:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>
>Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
>protection.

I won't doubt the protection aspect, but shields interfere with ear
muffs, hats (in the cold), and can cause funky distortions with
prescription glasses.

I know that foam plugs can replace muffs, but I like the ability to
easily flip them on and off. Besides, two of my sets of muffs have
radios in them. <G>

Barry

Ba

B a r r y

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 4:56 PM

Dave wrote:
> your Optometry doctor

Ditto that.

Good prescription safety glasses were worth the investment to me.

Barry

l

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 4:38 PM

On 26 Jan 2006 08:36:17 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
[email protected] quickly quoth:

>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
>on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
>long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
>that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
>sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.

The polycarbonate (lexan) glasses have at least twice the distortion
of regular glass, plastic, or high-index plastic lenses. They're as
bad as the damnable progressive lenses. Forget 'em, they're useless.


>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?

Are you looking for prescription safety glasses? I'm very sensitive
to distortion (I move my head a lot and distortion drives me nuts.) so
I much prefer to use a full face shield or goggles over my
prescription eyeglasses. At a distance, any distortion is much
lessened.

Prescription safety glasses are available for around $300 vs. the $12
I paid for a good face mask or the $2-5 you'll pay for goggles.

It's your choice. ;)


-
Better Living Through Denial
------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic Websites, PHP Apps, MySQL databases

DD

David

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 2:13 PM

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Doug, has that Hazmat suit...er...face shield ever saved you from
>>getting smacked in the face (not by a woman; I mean by a tool or board)?
>
>
> Yes. Repeatedly. At the lathe. At the table saw. At the band saw. When using
> chisels. And on and on.
>
> The best part of wearing a face shield, as opposed to goggles, is that it's so
> quick and easy to put on that there really is no excuse for not wearing it,
> and thus I wear it for all kinds of tasks. Not that long ago, on a remodeling
> project, I was using a prybar to pull a nail; it came out suddenly, and in an
> unexpected direction -- whap! off the face shield, directly in front of my
> right eye.
>

ok. How about fogging up. is it LESS prone to that than safety glasses?

all my kickbacks have gotten me in the gut, but I wouldn't discount the
eventuality of getting whacked in the kisser.

Dave

Rh

"Rich"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 1:14 AM

Try wiley-x glasses. They can be found on the internet and locally at
sporting goods stores too. I've been using them for about 8 years. I got my
first taste of them while in Naval Special Warfare. We use them for
shooting, boats, and in the bush to keep our eyes from being scratched by
the brush. I use mine for woodworking too. the pair I have are optically
clear and if they do get scratched the lenses can be replaced. The pair I
have comes with clear, amber and grey lenses. Recommended by SEALs and SWCCs
the world over.

--
Rich Harris :.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
> on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
> long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
> that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
> sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
> Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?
>

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

28/01/2006 2:01 AM

In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:

>ok. How about fogging up. is it LESS prone to that than safety glasses?

Oh, absolutely. The face shield *never* fogs up indoors, only outdoors in cold
weather.
>
>all my kickbacks have gotten me in the gut, but I wouldn't discount the
>eventuality of getting whacked in the kisser.

I'm not talking about kickbacks, just flying small fragments.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 4:29 AM


"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Can you get them tinted with a bifocal reading section built in? I saw
> some in a catalog somewhere but I can't remember where. I have a
> clear pair with a 250 power reading bifocal that are so old that the
> label has faded. They are polycarbonate but don't have any
> distortion. They have the adjustable ear pieces that make they very
> comfortable. I'm looking for the same thing tinted for outdoor work.

Most hi-index lenses qualify as a safety glass and can be made to most any
prescription, coatings, etc. The big difference is the normal eyeglass
frames lack side shields and may be smaller lenses. Polycarbonate is even
tougher.
http://www.alanoptics.per.sg/lenses.htm

If you have the money, they can make what you need.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 1:58 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:40:22 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Pfui. Wear the shield over the ear muffs, instead of the other way around, and
>
>>it's no problem. I do it all the time.
>
>Do you have a picture of that? Seriously, I'd really like to see
>that. You can blur your face if posting it on the 'net bothers you.
>I'd simply like to see the way it all goes together.

Just posted one to abpw. Hopefully it will show up soon.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

JT

John Thomas

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 6:17 PM

B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Dave wrote:
>> your Optometry doctor
>
> Ditto that.
>
> Good prescription safety glasses were worth the investment to me.
>
> Barry
>

Third! After having work pay for a pair, I'll gladly go and buy a set
if my rx changes enough.

I'd think, if you don't need glasses, you could still to an optometrist
and get "prescription" safety glasses with non-rx lenses.


--
Regards,

JT
Speaking only for myself....

Br

Ba r r y

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 12:41 PM

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:23:47 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

> You must have the wrong radios, bubba. <g>

Wrong head.

Barry

Dd

"Dave"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 4:39 PM

your Optometry doctor




<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
> on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
> long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
> that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
> sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
> Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?
>

DD

David

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 1:53 PM

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>I wear a baseball cap in the shop and when I'm using the shield, I have to wear
>>the hat with the bill in the back.. the kids think it's "way cool" but I feel
>>like a dork.. *g*
>
>
> Better to feel -- or even look -- like a dork, than to earn a new nickname of
> "One-Eyed Mac".
>

Doug, has that Hazmat suit...er...face shield ever saved you from
getting smacked in the face (not by a woman; I mean by a tool or board)?

Dave

Br

Ba r r y

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 12:53 PM

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:40:22 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>
>Pfui. Wear the shield over the ear muffs, instead of the other way around, and
>it's no problem. I do it all the time.

Do you have a picture of that? Seriously, I'd really like to see
that. You can blur your face if posting it on the 'net bothers you.
I'd simply like to see the way it all goes together.

>As for "funky distortions with prescription glasses" -- what on earth are you
>talking about? In eight or nine years of wearing face shields over
>prescription glasses, I've never noticed any distortion at all.

Excellent.

>Sounds to me like you need to find a source for better-quality face shields.

Or possibly differences in prescriptions, like astigmatism correction,
change things in the peripheral vision? The distortions aren't there
with contacts, but the dust bothers those. <G> The shields are top
of the line UVEX.
<http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1613549438&ccitem=>

If the link dosen't work, it's Grainger item# 4PE36

I've also used the cheaper North versions, also sold by Grainger.

I have employees who have also complained of peripheral vision
distortions with glasses and face shields, and others where the combo
works great (like you).

Barry

Cs

"CW"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

28/01/2006 5:43 AM


"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I wear a baseball cap in the shop and when I'm using the shield, I have to
wear
> the hat with the bill in the back.. the kids think it's "way cool" but I
feel
> like a dork.. *g*
>
Or a catcher.

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 9:42 AM

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:40:22 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:41:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
>>>protection.
>>
>>I won't doubt the protection aspect, but shields interfere with ear
>>muffs, hats (in the cold), and can cause funky distortions with
>>prescription glasses.
>
>Pfui. Wear the shield over the ear muffs, instead of the other way around, and
>it's no problem. I do it all the time. I never tried wearing a face shield
>over a hat (since my shop is indoors), but I imagine it would work just fine.
>As for "funky distortions with prescription glasses" -- what on earth are you
>talking about? In eight or nine years of wearing face shields over
>prescription glasses, I've never noticed any distortion at all.
>
>Sounds to me like you need to find a source for better-quality face shields.
>:-)

I wear a baseball cap in the shop and when I'm using the shield, I have to wear
the hat with the bill in the back.. the kids think it's "way cool" but I feel
like a dork.. *g*



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

l

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 6:23 PM

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:16:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Ba r r
y <[email protected]> quickly quoth:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:41:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
>>protection.
>
>I won't doubt the protection aspect, but shields interfere with ear
>muffs, hats (in the cold), and can cause funky distortions with
>prescription glasses.
>
>I know that foam plugs can replace muffs, but I like the ability to
>easily flip them on and off. Besides, two of my sets of muffs have
>radios in them. <G>

I wear my muffs over my shield with no problem. When I flip up the
shield, the muff band rides back, but it can stay there. The muffs
stay put anyway. You must have the wrong radios, bubba. <g>


-
Better Living Through Denial
------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic Websites, PHP Apps, MySQL databases

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 10:04 PM

In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:

>Doug, has that Hazmat suit...er...face shield ever saved you from
>getting smacked in the face (not by a woman; I mean by a tool or board)?

Yes. Repeatedly. At the lathe. At the table saw. At the band saw. When using
chisels. And on and on.

The best part of wearing a face shield, as opposed to goggles, is that it's so
quick and easy to put on that there really is no excuse for not wearing it,
and thus I wear it for all kinds of tasks. Not that long ago, on a remodeling
project, I was using a prybar to pull a nail; it came out suddenly, and in an
unexpected direction -- whap! off the face shield, directly in front of my
right eye.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 9:48 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>I wear a baseball cap in the shop and when I'm using the shield, I have to wear
>the hat with the bill in the back.. the kids think it's "way cool" but I feel
>like a dork.. *g*

Better to feel -- or even look -- like a dork, than to earn a new nickname of
"One-Eyed Mac".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 2:40 AM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:41:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
>>protection.
>
>I won't doubt the protection aspect, but shields interfere with ear
>muffs, hats (in the cold), and can cause funky distortions with
>prescription glasses.

Pfui. Wear the shield over the ear muffs, instead of the other way around, and
it's no problem. I do it all the time. I never tried wearing a face shield
over a hat (since my shop is indoors), but I imagine it would work just fine.
As for "funky distortions with prescription glasses" -- what on earth are you
talking about? In eight or nine years of wearing face shields over
prescription glasses, I've never noticed any distortion at all.

Sounds to me like you need to find a source for better-quality face shields.
:-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

g

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 1:40 PM

On 26 Jan 2006 08:36:17 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
>on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
>long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
>that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
>sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?

My Eye doctor tried to criticize my Crews safety (sun)glasses but he
couldn't find a problem on the lens analyser uses.
He ended up handing them back saying they were pretty good.
I buy them on the internet, by the box. They are cheap enough that I
throw them away when they get scratched ... and that will happen.
I wear them every day here in Florida and they are hanging around my
neck on a croaky when I am not wearing them.

FB

Frank Boettcher

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 9:52 AM

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:29:35 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Can you get them tinted with a bifocal reading section built in? I saw
>> some in a catalog somewhere but I can't remember where. I have a
>> clear pair with a 250 power reading bifocal that are so old that the
>> label has faded. They are polycarbonate but don't have any
>> distortion. They have the adjustable ear pieces that make they very
>> comfortable. I'm looking for the same thing tinted for outdoor work.
>
>Most hi-index lenses qualify as a safety glass and can be made to most any
>prescription, coatings, etc. The big difference is the normal eyeglass
>frames lack side shields and may be smaller lenses. Polycarbonate is even
>tougher.
>http://www.alanoptics.per.sg/lenses.htm
>
>If you have the money, they can make what you need.
>


Don't want to pay big bucks for a prescription when I just need a
reading/close work bifocal.

Just did a search and came up with a whole page of them. Clear and a
number of tints. Elvex is the brand I've been using. Last year I did
a search and came up with one brand, clear only. I think these
marketing departements are starting to recognise the baby boomer
market, and have expanded the line to include lots of choices with
reading/closework sections.

Most choices in the $12 - $15 range.

For anyone who is interested
http://safetyglasses.com/store/store.pl?cid=23

Frank

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

27/01/2006 1:11 PM


"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:40:22 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:41:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wear a face shield instead. No distortion, more comfortable, and better
>>>>protection.
>>>
>>>I won't doubt the protection aspect, but shields interfere with ear
>>>muffs, hats (in the cold), and can cause funky distortions with
>>>prescription glasses.
>>
>>Pfui. Wear the shield over the ear muffs, instead of the other way around,
>>and
>>it's no problem. I do it all the time. I never tried wearing a face shield
>>over a hat (since my shop is indoors), but I imagine it would work just
>>fine.
>>As for "funky distortions with prescription glasses" -- what on earth are
>>you
>>talking about? In eight or nine years of wearing face shields over
>>prescription glasses, I've never noticed any distortion at all.
>>
>>Sounds to me like you need to find a source for better-quality face
>>shields.
>>:-)
>
> I wear a baseball cap in the shop and when I'm using the shield, I have to
> wear
> the hat with the bill in the back.. the kids think it's "way cool" but I
> feel
> like a dork.. *g*
>
>
Since I am a safety freak, I went down to the industrial safety center
located in the industrial district of my town. I got some hard hats with
the safety sheild mounted on them. They had tough polycarbonate repalcement
shields as well. I got a bunch of them and replace the himet mounted one
when they become scratched or clouded.

The ear protectors fit easily around the back. Although you can buy ear
protectors to fit a hard hat as well. I chose not to.

I can tell you that the investment in these items paid off big time. I was
doing some grinding on a welding project. And any time I do this, the hard
hat with face shield goes on automatically. Through some freak event that I
could never figure out, the angle grinder essentially self destructed.

All kinds of debris flew out all over the place. Some of it hit the leather
apron I was wearing. But two big chunks suddenly appeared in my face and
almost knocked me over. I was stunned. The grinder fell to the floor. I
think the peice that I was cutting off must of got tangled in the grinder
somehow.

I am a big believer in face shields. I was before this incident. I am now a
religious zealot when it comes to face shields.


jj

johnny

in reply to [email protected] on 26/01/2006 8:36 AM

26/01/2006 6:15 PM

Brian Elfert wrote:

> [email protected] writes:
>
>
>>I have three pairs of polycarbonate safety glasses. I hate to put them
>>on because they (very slightly) distort my vision. If I wear them for
>>long I'm at risk of getting a headache, and it's hard to do anything
>>that requires precision while wearing them. But having bought three
>>sets, I have no reason to believe that a fourth set will be better.
>
>
>>Where can I find safety glasses that don't distort?
>
>
> I had the same problem with some safety glasses I recently bought at Sam's
> Club. Slight optical distortion plus they attract dust like crazy. No
> headaches because I didn't wear them for long.
>
> I'm looking for a recommendation on safety glasses too. All of mine are
> scratched from laying on concrete and such.
>
> Brian Elfert
I bought mine from harborfreight for one pair and the other I got at
advance auto both seem decent nice clear vision and not too scratched up
considering how much they get beat around


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