Could someone help me out with using a Jointer please. Mine skills are
obviously lacking.
I have a PM model 50 6" and have been using it happily and without problem
on shorter stock (<=3') for a while.
Here's my problem; Want to straight edge longer stock to take to the table
saw and I can't get it right. The stock is cyprus I'm using for outdoor
stuff and is ( thankfully ) flat, straight and parallel faced at 7/8ths
thickness. The 7/8th edges are another story and are curved or cupped. On
the longer stock (4-6') which is presently cupped or curved on the edge I
cannot appear to get a straight edge what ever I do. I've checked the
machine for table coplanar and it's ok so it's definitely my technique or
lack of.
So how does one use this beast on longer stock? Going back to first
principles;
If the board is cupped do you put the board through with the cup /\ or \/ ?
Or in the case of some I have /\/\/ ...
Holding the board against the fence and starting a board you have to hold
the board against the in table first. What do you do then? When do you move
the 'pressure' to the out table? If you continue feeding and holding from
the in table on a continously cupped board the back end will rise ( /\ ) or
the front end will rise ( \/ ) ? so
Does depth of cut affect the working? So far my best result is taking small
cuts and doing multiple repeat passes until i get something straight enough
but it's still 'rough carpentry' rather 'cabinet' straight. I can get a
straighter edge with a circular saw and a straight edge which defeats the
object of the machine somewhat.
thanks
If it's really far out on a long board (longer than jointer table), it's just
as easy to scribe a line and use a bandsaw or even a sabre saw to just get it
close. I omitted a TS from above, assuming the other side has an opposite bow.
I'd then use the jointer to just smooth those areas, going by eye, until
you're pretty close to the line. The process is quick and easy. Finish using
the jointer normally.
GerryG
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:42:04 -0400, Anonymous <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Does depth of cut affect the working? So far my best result is taking
>> small cuts and doing multiple repeat passes until i get something straight
>> enough but it's still 'rough carpentry' rather 'cabinet' straight. I can
>> get a straighter edge with a circular saw and a straight edge which
>> defeats the object of the machine somewhat.
>>
>> thanks
>
>Blind leading the blind?
>
>I will be buying my first ever jointer tomorrow. It sounds to me like you
>are saying that you have a plank whose faces are fine, but with a bow in
>the edges. IF you have or can make a long enough straight edge, lay it
>from end to end in the cup of the wood (the concave side) Measure from the
>straight edge to the deepest part of the concavity. Make up two blocks
>this size and glue them to the ends on the opposite side of the board (the
>convex side) from the cupping. This will give you 'legs' that you can
>plane off at the same time as you plane off the convexity.
>
>Mathematically, this solves your problem although I'm totally clueless as
>to how you will attach those legs.
>
>One additional thought: you could use a shorter straight edge to measure a
>shorter distance. Then make the legs and affix them opposite the end
>points of the straight edge. This would be especially appropriate if the
>board is much longer than your table.
>
>Like I said; I get my first ever taste of a jointer tomorrow evening. Be
>governed accordingly.
>
>Bill
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 GMT, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
>Could someone help me out with using a Jointer please. Mine skills are
>obviously lacking.
>
>I have a PM model 50 6" and have been using it happily and without problem
>on shorter stock (<=3') for a while.
>
>Here's my problem; Want to straight edge longer stock to take to the table
>saw and I can't get it right. The stock is cyprus
well there's your problem right there. your jointer is for wood, not
islands.
>I'm using for outdoor
>stuff and is ( thankfully ) flat, straight and parallel faced at 7/8ths
>thickness. The 7/8th edges are another story and are curved or cupped. On
>the longer stock (4-6') which is presently cupped or curved on the edge I
>cannot appear to get a straight edge what ever I do. I've checked the
>machine for table coplanar and it's ok so it's definitely my technique or
>lack of.
>
>So how does one use this beast on longer stock? Going back to first
>principles;
>
>If the board is cupped do you put the board through with the cup /\ or \/ ?
>Or in the case of some I have /\/\/ ...
as an exercise, before you start jointing the wood, draw a line where
you want to end up. make sure the line is straight (edge of plywood is
straight enough) and check during/ after each cut to see what's going
on.
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 GMT, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>If the board is cupped do you put the board through with the cup /\ or \/ ?
>Or in the case of some I have /\/\/ ...
>
I find it works best to put a cupped board this way /\. If it's /\/\,
I dunno, I'd probably go by the one that seems to be dominant if there
is one, otherwise toss a coin.
>Holding the board against the fence and starting a board you have to hold
>the board against the in table first. What do you do then? When do you move
>the 'pressure' to the out table?
I transfer the pressure to the outfeed table as soon as there's enough
board there to allow it. It's the outfeed table that's coplanar with
the knives and that's what you want to hold the board flat against.
>the 'pressure' to the out table? If you continue feeding and holding from
>the in table on a continously cupped board the back end will rise ( /\ ) or
>the front end will rise ( \/ ) ? so
If the cup is over a long distance, what I might do is to first run
one end of the board through (in the /\ position) for a couple of feet
and then turn it around and run the other end through. But don't try
to do the whole board at once. This way the ends of the board will be
straight and pressing the straight section on the outfeed table will
support the part of the joint that's being cut. With each pass the
straightened section will get a little longer and eventually the board
should get close enough that you can run the whole thing through at
once. (I admit I haven't tried this, but it seems like it ought to
work.)
>
>Does depth of cut affect the working? So far my best result is taking small
>cuts and doing multiple repeat passes until i get something straight enough
Yes, that's what I would do.
-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
On 06 Jul 2004 00:13:20 GMT, Mike Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
> I try to cut my lumber into shorter pieces when ever I can and then run it thru
> with the crown up. Rule of thumb is the lumber shouldn't be more than 1-1/2
> times the length of the jointer.
I didn't know that - why, so you don't make one long curve or something?
Well, no. It's got to make it flat off the end after cutting. As you
mention, it doesn't need to touch everywhere on the infeed to make a flat or
straight board.
Glad to see that someone else realizes that taking off the high spots
selectively versus running the whole board without sighting is the proper
approach. Strangely, it's advocates of hand planing, where this is normal
procedure, who have the most difficulty comprehending.
I recommend a hand plane, a jack, if not a scrub and jack to knock off the
high spots selectively where there are severe differences.
"GerryG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Only if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire
way,
> will you get the full accuracy of a jointer.
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 GMT, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
>If the board is cupped do you put the board through with the cup /\ or \/ ?
>Or in the case of some I have /\/\/ ...
Do you have a hand plane or band saw that you can knock the ends of
the /\ cupped sides off? You can then get it perfect on the jointer.
Roller stands or auxiliary infeed tables can help, but require some
futzing to get right.
You can also use a router, with a bearing guided bit running along the
factory edge of a sheet of ply or MDF, to get things close enough to
run across the jointer.
If all else fails, can your wood dealer give you a quick straight
edge?
Barry
Only if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire way,
will you get the full accuracy of a jointer. As the board gets longer, the
accuracy slowly degrades. That rule of thumb will leave you with a straight
enough edge for a good glue joint. Nothing hard and fast here, and going twice
the bed length will work if done well. That also depends on the thickness and
width of the boards, IOW with 1x2s several times longer than the bed, the
clamps will serve to pull them together without causing too much stress in the
joint.
Regarding the long curve, remember you're talking about thou's of an inch here
(for a good glue joint). To end up with a noticable curve, you'd need a really
long board.
Back at the original post, IMO John's response is pretty good. Also make sure
you don't use too much pressure and flex the board. For long boards, you also
need to first figure how far out the whole board is. I once forgot this and
happily flattened the face on a 6' board, only to then find out that one end
was 3/4" and the other maybe 3/8.
GerryG
On 6 Jul 2004 01:39:57 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 06 Jul 2004 00:13:20 GMT, Mike Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I try to cut my lumber into shorter pieces when ever I can and then run it thru
>> with the crown up. Rule of thumb is the lumber shouldn't be more than 1-1/2
>> times the length of the jointer.
>
>I didn't know that - why, so you don't make one long curve or something?
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:42:04 -0400, Anonymous
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
You will at least then need infeed and outfeed long enough to support
the legs right at the end of the board, right through the stroke.
>Make up two blocks
>this size and glue them to the ends on the opposite side of the board (the
>convex side) from the cupping. This will give you 'legs' that you can
>plane off at the same time as you plane off the convexity.
>One additional thought: you could use a shorter straight edge to measure a
>shorter distance. Then make the legs and affix them opposite the end
>points of the straight edge. This would be especially appropriate if the
>board is much longer than your table.
How would that get rid of the bow if it's the full length of the
board?
Not just nitpicking. I am interested, as you have tried to provide a
solution.
*****************************************************
It's not the milk and honey we hate. It's having it
rammed down our throats.
GerryG wrote:
> Only if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire
> way, will you get the full accuracy of a jointer.
I'm not sure that you said what you were trying to say here. Seems to me
that if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire way,
then you didn't need to joint it to begin with.
If you mean that in an ideal world the weight of the board would be
supported by the jointer bed along its entire length during the final cut
I'd certainly agree with that. But darned few of us have jointers with
even 6-foot beds, so we have to make do with what we have.
> As the board gets
> longer, the accuracy slowly degrades. That rule of thumb will leave you
> with a straight enough edge for a good glue joint. Nothing hard and fast
> here, and going twice the bed length will work if done well. That also
> depends on the thickness and width of the boards, IOW with 1x2s several
> times longer than the bed, the clamps will serve to pull them together
> without causing too much stress in the joint.
> Regarding the long curve, remember you're talking about thou's of an inch
> here (for a good glue joint). To end up with a noticable curve, you'd need
> a really long board.
> Back at the original post, IMO John's response is pretty good. Also make
> sure you don't use too much pressure and flex the board. For long boards,
> you also need to first figure how far out the whole board is. I once
> forgot this and happily flattened the face on a 6' board, only to then
> find out that one end was 3/4" and the other maybe 3/8.
> GerryG
>
> On 6 Jul 2004 01:39:57 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 06 Jul 2004 00:13:20 GMT, Mike Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I try to cut my lumber into shorter pieces when ever I can and then run
>>> it thru with the crown up. Rule of thumb is the lumber shouldn't be more
>>> than 1-1/2 times the length of the jointer.
>>
>>I didn't know that - why, so you don't make one long curve or something?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> I've checked the
> machine for table coplanar and it's ok so it's definitely my technique or
> lack of.
The tables may be coplanar, but it might be that the outfeed table's
height is not adjusted correctly with respect to the height of the
knives (or the opposite actually, but I'm too lazy to re-type it all).
This would give you a cupped edge evry time. DAMHIKT :(
Just guessing.
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 GMT, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
1. You could try to take out some of the cupping if the board is wide
enough by layingon a wet lawn in the sun. Water swells on side and the
heat drives moisture out of the other to reshape it. Keep an eye on
it.
2. When reasonably (?) straight, run through a thickness planer, or
thickness sander. If not, use it for smaller pieces and start again
with a better piece.
3. Cut a straight piece from a 1/4" masonite or thin scrap, about 1
1/2' wide. Tack to the material [you will have a little waste!] and
run through the table saw to get one straight edge. Run through a
second time taking only a fine cut to avoid wavering.
4. Turn the board around and cut the second edge parallel to the
first.
5. Now joint if you really need to.
Bill.
>Could someone help me out with using a Jointer please. Mine skills are
>obviously lacking.
>
>I have a PM model 50 6" and have been using it happily and without problem
>on shorter stock (<=3') for a while.
>
>Here's my problem; Want to straight edge longer stock to take to the table
>saw and I can't get it right. The stock is cyprus I'm using for outdoor
>stuff and is ( thankfully ) flat, straight and parallel faced at 7/8ths
>thickness. The 7/8th edges are another story and are curved or cupped. On
>the longer stock (4-6') which is presently cupped or curved on the edge I
>cannot appear to get a straight edge what ever I do. I've checked the
>machine for table coplanar and it's ok so it's definitely my technique or
>lack of.
"Bill Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 GMT, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 1. You could try to take out some of the cupping if the board is wide
> enough by layingon a wet lawn in the sun. Water swells on side and the
> heat drives moisture out of the other to reshape it. Keep an eye on
> it.
>
> 2. When reasonably (?) straight, run through a thickness planer, or
> thickness sander. If not, use it for smaller pieces and start again
> with a better piece.
Then build whatever with it real fast before the moisture content equalizes
and it warps again.
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:45:36 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>
> Does depth of cut affect the working? So far my best result is taking
> small cuts and doing multiple repeat passes until i get something straight
> enough but it's still 'rough carpentry' rather 'cabinet' straight. I can
> get a straighter edge with a circular saw and a straight edge which
> defeats the object of the machine somewhat.
>
> thanks
Blind leading the blind?
I will be buying my first ever jointer tomorrow. It sounds to me like you
are saying that you have a plank whose faces are fine, but with a bow in
the edges. IF you have or can make a long enough straight edge, lay it
from end to end in the cup of the wood (the concave side) Measure from the
straight edge to the deepest part of the concavity. Make up two blocks
this size and glue them to the ends on the opposite side of the board (the
convex side) from the cupping. This will give you 'legs' that you can
plane off at the same time as you plane off the convexity.
Mathematically, this solves your problem although I'm totally clueless as
to how you will attach those legs.
One additional thought: you could use a shorter straight edge to measure a
shorter distance. Then make the legs and affix them opposite the end
points of the straight edge. This would be especially appropriate if the
board is much longer than your table.
Like I said; I get my first ever taste of a jointer tomorrow evening. Be
governed accordingly.
Bill
--
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Okay, I think you said what I meant. But I also said the "optimum" is often
more than you need, thereby we have the rule-of-thumb here, and I'm another
have-to-make-do also.
GerryG
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:54:21 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>GerryG wrote:
>
>> Only if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire
>> way, will you get the full accuracy of a jointer.
>
>I'm not sure that you said what you were trying to say here. Seems to me
>that if the entire board is in contact with the jointer bed the entire way,
>then you didn't need to joint it to begin with.
>
>If you mean that in an ideal world the weight of the board would be
>supported by the jointer bed along its entire length during the final cut
>I'd certainly agree with that. But darned few of us have jointers with
>even 6-foot beds, so we have to make do with what we have.
>
>> As the board gets
>> longer, the accuracy slowly degrades. That rule of thumb will leave you
>> with a straight enough edge for a good glue joint. Nothing hard and fast
>> here, and going twice the bed length will work if done well. That also
>> depends on the thickness and width of the boards, IOW with 1x2s several
>> times longer than the bed, the clamps will serve to pull them together
>> without causing too much stress in the joint.
>> Regarding the long curve, remember you're talking about thou's of an inch
>> here (for a good glue joint). To end up with a noticable curve, you'd need
>> a really long board.
>> Back at the original post, IMO John's response is pretty good. Also make
>> sure you don't use too much pressure and flex the board. For long boards,
>> you also need to first figure how far out the whole board is. I once
>> forgot this and happily flattened the face on a 6' board, only to then
>> find out that one end was 3/4" and the other maybe 3/8.
>> GerryG
>>
>> On 6 Jul 2004 01:39:57 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 06 Jul 2004 00:13:20 GMT, Mike Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I try to cut my lumber into shorter pieces when ever I can and then run
>>>> it thru with the crown up. Rule of thumb is the lumber shouldn't be more
>>>> than 1-1/2 times the length of the jointer.
>>>
>>>I didn't know that - why, so you don't make one long curve or something?