Hey Guys:
Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
but here's a little something worth passing along.
I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
fixtures.
Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
Hope this helps...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
>>at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were
>>packaged
>>as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a
>>look
>>at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
>>associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at
>>0
>>degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
> Not sure if the conversion error is yours or theirs, but 0 C = 32 F, and
> 14 F
> = -10 C.
My error. The ballast is rated to -10C, not 0C as I posted.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Sergey Kubushin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They are. Sure it's more expensive if you buy ballasts at HD. But if you
> buy
> in bulk on Ebay it's much cheaper. I bought 20 GE Ultramax 3/2 bulb T8
> ballasts for $100. Shipping was around $20. That makes it $6 per ballast.
>
> And it's not just about saving something like $10 per fixture, that's
> hardly
> worth it even if multiplied by 18 fixtures as it was in my case. First of
> all, my fixtures have a real GE ballasts in them, not el-cheapo chinese
> mockups. Then, my ballasts are multivoltage so I put 220V on them. And the
> fixtures are modified anyways--they are mounted permanently so I had to
> dissasemble them and install conduit fittings to hook them up--so
> replacing
> ballasts took almost no additional time.
>
That's a pretty good deal Sergey. I did some internet searching for
ballasts before just buying new fixtures - not a ton of it, but some. Did
not look at any of the ebay results. About half of my existing fixtures can
be repaired with a replacement ballast and the other half can't. I have 15
of them hanging in my garage and the ones that can't be replaced are the
type that have the ballast in each end-cap. I thought that was a novel idea
when I bought them, but I'd never recommend them to anyone in the future.
No doubt about it, the ballast in the fixtures I bought at HD have cheap
ballasts in them, but I needed new fixtures anyway due to the issue with
end-cap ballasts in my old fixtures.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2007-12-30 10:47:45 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> said:
>
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>
> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
What about those of us in the southern hempisphere?
"Sergey Kubushin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Better yet replace those magnetic T12 ballasts (not that bad, actually,
> for
> magnetics) with e.g. GE Ultramax T8 ones and use good F32T8 bulbs. It will
> cost $5-8 per fixture depending on how cheap one was able to get those
> ballasts off of Ebay and 20 minutes of time. Result is well worth it...
Replacing ballast is much more expensive than replacing fixtures. The HD
fixtures I posted about are electronic ballast and to correct my original
post, are good to -10C (14F). By the time you pay shipping those $5-$8
ballasts won't be $5-$8.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:14:13 GMT, "Lowell Holmes"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop is
>in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
>the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
You suck!
It's 3C where I am.
Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
I hope they work well as they are an option
On Dec 30, 8:52 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Guys:
>
> Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
> but here's a little something worth passing along.
>
> I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
> at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
> as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
> at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
> associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
> degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
> So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
> ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
> extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
> here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
> around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
> start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
> bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
> fixtures.
>
> Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
> The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
On Dec 30 2007, 8:52 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hey Guys:
>
> Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
> but here's a little something worth passing along.
>
> I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
> at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
> as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
> at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
> associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
> degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
> So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
> ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
> extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
> here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
> around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
> start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
> bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
> fixtures.
>
> Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
> The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
FT8? Anything cheaper than $10 probably has a plastic cased
ballast.
If the post mortem I performed on the ones that blew out is any
indication, plastic cases are heat insulators and allow the circuit
boards to overheat, as indicated by the scorched PCBs under the
T0-220 power transistors/regulators. It would pay to open the
lights in the store and see if you have metal ballasts.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>
> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>
That's what I was thinking! ;~)
Tanus <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Hey Guys:
>>
>> Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
>> but here's a little something worth passing along.
>>
>> I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
>> at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
>> as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
>> at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
>> associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
>> degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>>
>> So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
>> ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
>> extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
>> here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
>> around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
>> start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
>> bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
>> fixtures.
>>
>> Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
>> The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>>
> It sure helps me. I'm north and west of
> you in Ottawa but I think our temps in
> winter are comparable. So far it hasn't
> been testicle-losing weather, but that
> will come. Even so, my fluorescents are
> cranky on a cold start. I'll check out
> HD.ca and see if the same deal is
> available here.
Better yet replace those magnetic T12 ballasts (not that bad, actually, for
magnetics) with e.g. GE Ultramax T8 ones and use good F32T8 bulbs. It will
cost $5-8 per fixture depending on how cheap one was able to get those
ballasts off of Ebay and 20 minutes of time. Result is well worth it...
I recently put 18 such fixtures with Ultramax ballasts in my garage. Works
like a charm and SLi Lighting F32T8 Excella bulbs with their 91 CRI and
5765K are very very good, it's really like a sunny day... www.1000bulbs.com
sells those for $96.92 per box of 30, highly recommended.
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:14:13 GMT, "Lowell Holmes"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my
>>shop is in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today
>>and work and the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
>
>
> You suck!
>
> It's 3C where I am.
That's too warm. The temperature range between 32 and 45 degrees F (or
around 0-10C???) is too cold to do anything summery, and too warm to do
anything wintery. If it's going to be this cool, I want it cold.
Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Just checked my shop 10am..
> 13c outside 21 inside
> That's with no heat and 2 windows open a little to let smoke out..
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
Been a while since you got your TS blade sharpened? It sure helps to not
BURN your way through the wood!
Puckdropper
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Sergey Kubushin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Better yet replace those magnetic T12 ballasts (not that bad, actually,
>> for
>> magnetics) with e.g. GE Ultramax T8 ones and use good F32T8 bulbs. It will
>> cost $5-8 per fixture depending on how cheap one was able to get those
>> ballasts off of Ebay and 20 minutes of time. Result is well worth it...
> Replacing ballast is much more expensive than replacing fixtures. The HD
> fixtures I posted about are electronic ballast and to correct my original
> post, are good to -10C (14F). By the time you pay shipping those $5-$8
> ballasts won't be $5-$8.
They are. Sure it's more expensive if you buy ballasts at HD. But if you buy
in bulk on Ebay it's much cheaper. I bought 20 GE Ultramax 3/2 bulb T8
ballasts for $100. Shipping was around $20. That makes it $6 per ballast.
And it's not just about saving something like $10 per fixture, that's hardly
worth it even if multiplied by 18 fixtures as it was in my case. First of
all, my fixtures have a real GE ballasts in them, not el-cheapo chinese
mockups. Then, my ballasts are multivoltage so I put 220V on them. And the
fixtures are modified anyways--they are mounted permanently so I had to
dissasemble them and install conduit fittings to hook them up--so replacing
ballasts took almost no additional time.
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Dec 30 2007, 11:56 pm, Sergey Kubushin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > "Sergey Kubushin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >> Better yet replace those magnetic T12 ballasts (not that bad, actually,
>> >> for
>> >> magnetics) with e.g. GE Ultramax T8 ones and use good F32T8 bulbs. It will
>> >> cost $5-8 per fixture depending on how cheap one was able to get those
>> >> ballasts off of Ebay and 20 minutes of time. Result is well worth it...
>> > Replacing ballast is much more expensive than replacing fixtures. The HD
>> > fixtures I posted about are electronic ballast and to correct my original
>> > post, are good to -10C (14F). By the time you pay shipping those $5-$8
>> > ballasts won't be $5-$8.
>>
>> They are. Sure it's more expensive if you buy ballasts at HD. But if you buy
>> in bulk on Ebay it's much cheaper. I bought 20 GE Ultramax 3/2 bulb T8
>> ballasts for $100. Shipping was around $20. That makes it $6 per ballast.
>>
>> And it's not just about saving something like $10 per fixture, that's hardly
>> worth it even if multiplied by 18 fixtures as it was in my case. First of
>> all, my fixtures have a real GE ballasts in them, not el-cheapo chinese
>> mockups. Then, my ballasts are multivoltage so I put 220V on them. And the
>> fixtures are modified anyways--they are mounted permanently so I had to
>> dissasemble them and install conduit fittings to hook them up--so replacing
>> ballasts took almost no additional time.
>>
>> ---
>> ******************************************************************
>> * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
>> * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
>> ******************************************************************
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
> Sounds like a lot of time spent...what is your time worth?
I'm on 6 figure salary :) Garage/woodworking/machining/etc. is a hobby.
But wait, you don't know the ENTIRE truth... I also built a wall to divide
my 3 car garage to 1 car size metallworking and 2 car size woodworking
shops, installed 100 Amp subpanels in each part, put 24 outlet boxes with
2x125V 20Amp + 1x250/125V 30Amp outlets, a couple of 50Amp 250/125V outlets
for a welder (yes, I have 220V available at every corner of my workshop,)
spent more than 200 feet of EMT conduit, a full roll of 10/3 and 8/3 Romex
and a lot more... I did even install AC unit there :)
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
On Dec 30 2007, 11:56=A0pm, Sergey Kubushin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Sergey Kubushin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> Better yet replace those magnetic T12 ballasts (not that bad, actually,=
> >> for
> >> magnetics) with e.g. GE Ultramax T8 ones and use good F32T8 bulbs. It w=
ill
> >> cost $5-8 per fixture depending on how cheap one was able to get those
> >> ballasts off of Ebay and 20 minutes of time. Result is well worth it...=
> > Replacing ballast is much more expensive than replacing fixtures. =A0The=
HD
> > fixtures I posted about are electronic ballast and to correct my origina=
l
> > post, are good to -10C (14F). =A0By the time you pay shipping those $5-$=
8
> > ballasts won't be $5-$8.
>
> They are. Sure it's more expensive if you buy ballasts at HD. But if you b=
uy
> in bulk on Ebay it's much cheaper. I bought 20 GE Ultramax 3/2 bulb T8
> ballasts for $100. Shipping was around $20. That makes it $6 per ballast.
>
> And it's not just about saving something like $10 per fixture, that's hard=
ly
> worth it even if multiplied by 18 fixtures as it was in my case. First of
> all, my fixtures have a real GE ballasts in them, not el-cheapo chinese
> mockups. Then, my ballasts are multivoltage so I put 220V on them. And the=
> fixtures are modified anyways--they are mounted permanently so I had to
> dissasemble them and install conduit fittings to hook them up--so replacin=
g
> ballasts took almost no additional time.
>
> ---
> ******************************************************************
> * =A0KSI@home =A0 =A0KOI8 Net =A0< > =A0The impossible we do immediately. =
=A0*
> * =A0Las Vegas =A0 NV, USA =A0 < > =A0Miracles require 24-hour notice. =A0=
*
> ******************************************************************
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Sounds like a lot of time spent...what is your time worth?
TMT
"Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
> I hope they work well as they are an option
>
Correct - my mistake. The ballast read -10C, which is 14F.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Jan 2, 8:40 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:376770e1-3135-4a90-9e12-9ec9e1d41d3b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > FT8? Anything cheaper than $10 probably has a plastic cased
> > ballast.
> > If the post mortem I performed on the ones that blew out is any
> > indication, plastic cases are heat insulators and allow the circuit
> > boards to overheat, as indicated by the scorched PCBs under the
> > T0-220 power transistors/regulators. It would pay to open the
> > lights in the store and see if you have metal ballasts.
>
> I can open one of mine later to confirm, but it looked to me in the store
> that these were metal ballast. This ballast is a little different than what
> I've encountered in the past though in that it's quite long and thin. To be
> sure - you do not want to screw these directly to a ceiling - they have to
> hang with at least 3" of clearance. I've not found any of the plastic or
> the metal housed ballast to fail due to temperature problems if they hang.
> I have on the other hand, proven out the theory that ballast not designed
> for direct mounting will indeed burn out.
Never had a magnetic ballast fail or had its noise become
a "problem" in a machine shop.
Tosses lit bag of dog poo outside Doug's door, before heading into the cold
garage/workshop. lol
--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <ptPdj.496$Ug5.34@trnddc06>, "Lowell Holmes"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop
>>is
>>in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
>>the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
>
> My shop is in shirt sleeve weather *all* the time... in a heated, air
> conditioned basement.
On Jan 29, 3:21 pm, Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Did you ever convert -40 degrees?
Might have to tonight, expected low of -18F; windchill of -40F.
-Brian
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:52:16 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hey Guys:
>
>Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
>but here's a little something worth passing along.
>
>I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
>at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
>as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
>at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
>associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
>degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
>So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
>ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
>extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
>here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
>around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
>start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
>bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
>fixtures.
>
>Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
>The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
>
>Hope this helps...
Did the "economy" lights really have a ballast or were they the design that has a couple of cheezy little circuit boards
in the cavity above the reflector? I haven't ever seen a new shop light with a "real" ballast in it for less than 15$,
but that situation may have changed since I last was involved with shop lighting (about 4 months ago...). IF the cheapy
ones were the "Non ballast" type (i.e. no ballast "brick", built by a ballast manufacturer.. with real UL approval, noise
rating and temperature rating on the ballast..) then there are other potential pitfalls to be aware of as well. First off
the 7-9$ cheapies usually have a very primitive start capability, many have the start current on all the time at a lower
value. This causes bulbs to "burn out" prematurely, from the start filament always being energized. Second, the light
output from these units is simply less than those that use a true ballast, probably due to inadequacies in the voltage
being supplied to the bulb. Try setting a cheapy next to the least expensive type with a real ballast and it is
immediately obvious, of course use the exact same type of bulbs in each for this test. Home depot used to have a display
of all their "generic" type fluorescent fixtures that you could view each with power on side by side, but I guess the
cheapy light sales dropped off too much so they discontinued the practice.
I naively went with cheapys a few years back and one day came to the conclusion that hardly anything about them was very
well designed. The sockets are so flimsy they don't work half the time as well. I had put up with enough flickering,
buzzing, and black banded burnt out tubes that were almost new, so I replaced all (10) double tube 4' units "electronic"
circuit boards with replacement rapid start ballasts from Home Depot, the ballasts wouldn't fit inside the lights plastic
housing so I mounted them on the outside of the fixture on top of the housing. As I recall the ballasts cost about 10$
each, and resolved the entire problem for me. I discovered an additional side benefit to using a generic replacement
ballast also. Since manufacturers want a replacement ballast to be effectively used in as many applications as possible,
the "replacement" unit is almost always more robust than the factory installed ones it replaces. This results in an even
more quiet fixture that will start reliably in colder environments than they are officially rated for. Got a laundry room
or kitchen fixture that seems to buzz a bit too much? A universal replacement ballast will almost always be more quiet
used in the same scenario, if the replacement unit has your noisy one on it's replacement list in the box with the
ballast. At least that has been my experience in all cases thus far (about 20 ballasts installed for several years...). I
just wish I had not wasted my time and money initially trying to get by with the cheapy shop lights that cost 7-10$, I had
such a bad experience with them I think it is an insult to even call them light fixtures at all. Home Depot and other
outlets should be ashamed for and perhaps even sued for selling the crap in the first place....I hope this at least causes
a few buyers to be a little more aware that this stuff barely works at all no matter what the temperature in your
shop....regards, Joe.
"Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
> I hope they work well as they are an option
Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>
> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
This applies, however, only if you properly input the correct moon phase.
"Joe Brophy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Did the "economy" lights really have a ballast or were they the design
> that has a couple of cheezy little circuit boards
> in the cavity above the reflector?
Yes - it has a ballast. Be mindful though that most ballast today are
electronic. That's how they get the quiet, cold start out of them over the
old magnetic ballast.
> I haven't ever seen a new shop light with a "real" ballast in it for less
> than 15$,
They are all over.
> but that situation may have changed since I last was involved with shop
> lighting (about 4 months ago...). IF the cheapy
> ones were the "Non ballast" type (i.e. no ballast "brick", built by a
> ballast manufacturer.. with real UL approval, noise
> rating and temperature rating on the ballast..) then there are other
> potential pitfalls to be aware of as well.
Yes - they have all of these markings, including the UL approval.
> First off
> the 7-9$ cheapies usually have a very primitive start capability, many
> have the start current on all the time at a lower
> value. This causes bulbs to "burn out" prematurely, from the start
> filament always being energized.
This is an interesting point. I've wondered if the originals in my garage
(also economy, but a different brand) suffered from something like this.
Instead of getting years out of bulbs, I got (sometimes) only months.
American Flueroscent of course, admitted nothing with respect to their
fixtures.
> Second, the light
> output from these units is simply less than those that use a true ballast,
> probably due to inadequacies in the voltage
> being supplied to the bulb. Try setting a cheapy next to the least
> expensive type with a real ballast and it is
> immediately obvious, of course use the exact same type of bulbs in each
> for this test. Home depot used to have a display
> of all their "generic" type fluorescent fixtures that you could view each
> with power on side by side, but I guess the
> cheapy light sales dropped off too much so they discontinued the practice.
You can still see the full line on display in every Home Depot.
>
> I naively went with cheapys a few years back and one day came to the
> conclusion that hardly anything about them was very
> well designed. The sockets are so flimsy they don't work half the time as
> well. I had put up with enough flickering,
> buzzing, and black banded burnt out tubes that were almost new,
I have not suffered flickering or buzzing with any of my units. Some of
them did eat bulbs but other than that, they just simply died. Ok - not
really that simple - I killed them by screwing them to the ceiling. Now
they're all hung from chains.
> so I replaced all (10) double tube 4' units "electronic"
> circuit boards with replacement rapid start ballasts from Home Depot, the
> ballasts wouldn't fit inside the lights plastic
> housing so I mounted them on the outside of the fixture on top of the
> housing. As I recall the ballasts cost about 10$
> each, and resolved the entire problem for me. I discovered an additional
> side benefit to using a generic replacement
> ballast also. Since manufacturers want a replacement ballast to be
> effectively used in as many applications as possible,
> the "replacement" unit is almost always more robust than the factory
> installed ones it replaces.
> I just wish I had not wasted my time and money initially trying to get by
> with the cheapy shop lights that cost 7-10$, I had
> such a bad experience with them I think it is an insult to even call them
> light fixtures at all. Home Depot and other
> outlets should be ashamed for and perhaps even sued for selling the crap
> in the first place....I hope this at least causes
> a few buyers to be a little more aware that this stuff barely works at all
> no matter what the temperature in your
> shop....
I'll see how things play out with the new fixtures. If they seem to work
better then I'll just go with more of them if I have to replace fixtures.
If not, I'll go with ballast.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:23:56 -0500, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:14:13 GMT, "Lowell Holmes"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop is
>>in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
>>the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
>
>
>You suck!
>
>It's 3C where I am.
Just checked my shop 10am..
13c outside 21 inside
That's with no heat and 2 windows open a little to let smoke out..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
mac davis wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:04:13 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>>>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>>> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
>>> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
>>> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>>>
>> That's what I was thinking! ;~)
>>
> You're ahead of me... I forgot about leap years..
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
It also depends if you are facing north or south in the daytime or evening.
On 30 Dec 2007 16:57:26 GMT, Puckdropper <[email protected]>
wrote:
> If it's going to be this cool, I want it cold.
>
I know the feeling.
At this temperature (3C), there's no snow or skateable outdoor ice,
but the ground is too soft and muddy to mountain bike, and it's really
cold to road ride (wind chill).
It's also just cold enough to have to go through the BS of preheating
the airplane, only to not be able to fly into low hanging, icy clouds.
It's purgatory!
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:376770e1-3135-4a90-9e12-9ec9e1d41d3b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> FT8? Anything cheaper than $10 probably has a plastic cased
> ballast.
> If the post mortem I performed on the ones that blew out is any
> indication, plastic cases are heat insulators and allow the circuit
> boards to overheat, as indicated by the scorched PCBs under the
> T0-220 power transistors/regulators. It would pay to open the
> lights in the store and see if you have metal ballasts.
>
>
I can open one of mine later to confirm, but it looked to me in the store
that these were metal ballast. This ballast is a little different than what
I've encountered in the past though in that it's quite long and thin. To be
sure - you do not want to screw these directly to a ceiling - they have to
hang with at least 3" of clearance. I've not found any of the plastic or
the metal housed ballast to fail due to temperature problems if they hang.
I have on the other hand, proven out the theory that ballast not designed
for direct mounting will indeed burn out.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Dec 30 2007, 3:47 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
> > I hope they work well as they are an option
>
> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
No no.
The ballasts are rated at 0 degrees C for
metric electricity but are good all the way
down to 14 degrees F for 'mercan electiricity.
--
FF
On Dec 30 2007, 4:04 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
...
> >I We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
> >degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
> Not sure if the conversion error is yours or theirs, but 0 C = 32 F, and 14 F
> = -10 C.
>
Did you ever convert -40 degrees?
--
FF
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Hey Guys:
>
> Don't know if anyone is outfitting their garage or shop with lights or not,
> but here's a little something worth passing along.
>
> I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
> at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
> as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
> at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
> associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
> degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
>
> So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
> ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
> extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
> here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
> around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
> start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
> bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
> fixtures.
>
> Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
> The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
It sure helps me. I'm north and west of
you in Ottawa but I think our temps in
winter are comparable. So far it hasn't
been testicle-losing weather, but that
will come. Even so, my fluorescents are
cranky on a cold start. I'll check out
HD.ca and see if the same deal is
available here.
Thanks.
--
Tanus
This is not really a sig.
http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/
Lowell Holmes wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>>>I hope they work well as they are an option
>>
>>Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
>>equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
>>unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>>
>
> I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop is
> in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
> the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
>
>
There's a name for people like you but this is a family group... ;^)
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:04:13 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>>
>> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
>> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
>> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>>
>
>That's what I was thinking! ;~)
>
You're ahead of me... I forgot about leap years..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
In article <ptPdj.496$Ug5.34@trnddc06>, "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop is
>in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
>the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
My shop is in shirt sleeve weather *all* the time... in a heated, air
conditioned basement.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>
> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>
I read all these posts with interest. It makes me appreciate that my shop is
in shirt sleeve weather most of the time. I will go out today and work and
the temperature will be 20 degrees C. :-)
"- Colonel -" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2008012911174916807-nobody@verizonnet...
> On 2007-12-30 10:47:45 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> said:
>
>>
>> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:314c7194-e8ed-49d9-a0b4-7749b6091f74@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>> Just a point but zero Celsius is 32 degrees Fahrenheit not 14 F, still
>>> I hope they work well as they are an option
>>
>> Depends where you live. You're using the summer conversion. After the
>> equinox, the axis of the Celsium changes so the winter conversion is 14F,
>> unless you are in a daylight savings zone in a leap year.
>
> What about those of us in the southern hempisphere?
Just read the numbers upside down.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:23:56 -0500, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> snip
> 13c outside 21 inside
> That's with no heat and 2 windows open a little to let smoke out..
>
>
> mac
>
What smoke?
In article <[email protected]>, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I needed to replace 4 of my 0 degree shop lights yesterday and took a look
>at what Home Depot had. Of course, they had shop lights that were packaged
>as 0 degree start and they were around $25 or $28 or so. Then I took a look
>at their bargain shop lights - at the urging of the electrical department
>associate. We opened one up and looked at the ballast and it was rated at 0
>degree Celsius (14 degree F). Price - $ 8.53.
Not sure if the conversion error is yours or theirs, but 0 C = 32 F, and 14 F
= -10 C.
>
>So, I bought 4 of them and figured that even if these were units with
>ballasts which did not meet spec, I could bring them back and spend the
>extra money. If not, I'd be money ahead. Well - they work just fine up
>here in the greater Syracuse NY winter temperature. It's not hovering
>around zero, but it's cold enough that my fluorescents which are not cold
>start ballasts, struggle to fire up. So - it appears that these are a great
>bargain for a cold start unit, as long as you don't need the -20 degree
>fixtures.
>
>Watch out though because they have a couple of economy units on the shelves.
>The one you want is SKU 732-334. The other units are not cold starts.
>
>Hope this helps...
>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.