Good luck. I have not been to impressed by the alignment capabilities of
biscuits, specially when gluing up panels. Always seems there is some
mismatch and, with the biscuit in the joint, that mismatch is permanent. I
quit using them for this reason. When gluing up panels, no biscuits means
more slipping around but the parts can be pushed into alignment with hammer,
cauls, et. With biscuits, they're stuck.
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ilY7i.65491$V75.45906@edtnps89...
> I'm not looking for the additional strength but more to help with
alignment
> issues when gluing up a panel. I've spent too much time planing and
sanding
> a panel to make it flat and needed a quicker solution. I'm sure there are
> other solutions that are cheaper but hopefully this will work well for me.
>
>
>
"Leon" wrote in message
>
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> >
>
> >
> > Even here in humid Houston I take no special precautions and its never
> > been
> > an issue.
>
>
> What brand are you using. I have some Freud's and they are just as likely
> to fall in the slot or need to be hammered. I keep them in a Tupperware
> container. I strongly believe that brand has a lot to do with how well
they
> hold up in humid conditions. Or maybe it may likely be the quality
control
> at the factory. They may always have had to be hammered or soaked in
water
> for a decent fit. LOL.
I have both PC brand that I've had around for years, in a size I don't use
very often, and some that I do that I bought in a huge bag at the
woodworking show a few years ago.
Maybe, like plywood, biscuits aren't what they used to be?
Speaking of which, yesterday I bought a sheet of QSWO 3/4" that had voids in
it, and a sheet of both "Russian" and "Baltic" birch 1/2" plywood that is
visibly not up the quality of the scraps left in the shop from the last time
I bought, middle of last year.
Things are more than halfway to hell in this country and you can now
see/feel the heat in things like plywood in just a few months time.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
I have the PC 557 and highly recommend it. Your $279 price is pretty
high - I bought mine at Home Depot for around $200 a 4 or 5 months
ago.
At the time I was mulling the same two models, I ended up going w/ the
PC for 2 reasons:
1. It got almost universal praise in this current iteration (Type 3)
- previous versions had some fence issues. Make sure you end up with
a Type 3 (or later?).
2. As with most PC stuff, it looked like you could hurl it from the
top of a building without harming it. I take care of my tools, but I
always appreciate something built to live longer than me.
The only downside I've noticed is that it does make a bit of a racket
- kind of a metal on metal noise that I've read is completely normal
for this model.
Aaron
On May 29, 8:16 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
I have the PC and like it. Two reasons I chose it:
1) It has a 135* fence which registers the slot to the outside of a
miter so any mis-alignment will be on the inside. Most other cutters
register on the inside of the miter.
2) It has a beefy handle to grab and hold it steady while plunging
the cutter, the others I looked at did not. In retrospect this is not
all that important since I usually hold it inplace by the fence.
On May 29, 7:16 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
I chose the PC because of the ability to use the smaller FF biscuits.
I have used them more than I have the bigger ones and as far as I know
PC is the only one that has the capability to cut the slots for them.
bc
On May 29, 8:16 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
PC 557. Just do it.
On May 30, 10:18 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
> > efgh wrote:
>
> >> Slightly off topic but I looked at the prices for the biscuits at HD
> >> while I was looking at the joiners and I noticed that were priced at
> >> about $5 for 50. When I got back to the office, I checked Lee Valley and
> >> they sell them for $11.50 for 200 or $39.50 for 1000. I think I'll be
> >> buying mine at LV.
>
> > How about 1000 for $20:
>
> > <http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/port/prbisc.htm?L+c...>
>
> They ship via UPS and according to shipping instructions, UPS charges $16
> for the brokerage fees plus shipping charges. I'll stick to Lee Valley.
> Thanks.
Don't forget your friends at Busy Bee.
On May 30, 8:11 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> What brand are you using. I have some Freud's and they are just as likely
> to fall in the slot or need to be hammered. I keep them in a Tupperware
> container. I strongly believe that brand has a lot to do with >how well they hold up in humid conditions. Or maybe it may >likely be the quality control at the factory. They may always >have had to be hammered or soaked in water
> for a decent fit. LOL.
Leon I have been using the Porter Cable Brand for a long time and
they have a pretty consistent "not quite snug finger push fit". I buy
them at Amazon since they have the best price with free shipping on
the 1000 pack.
http://tinyurl.com/25y9sl
I actually bought one of those 1000 biscuit packs of #20s and used
everything down to the last few broken ones. It literally took about
3 years, and they were always in that bag with the top folded over.
That's it for humidity protection. And while we aren't Houston we can
hold our own with humidity. (It has lightened up this morning and is
a mild 74% this morning.) I never had swelling issues. Besides, I was
on another tack: like flooring, I wanted my biscuits to swell as much
as possible BEFORE using them so they wouldn't swell inside a joint.
But I never had a swelling problem there, either.
I only have an occasional biscuit that is larger or looser than the
rest. I am suspecting quality control as well as I would bet none of
these guys make their own biscuits, but actually job them out.
This is one of those issues that was a favorite a couple of years ago
on the group and people reported that they saw swelling of their
joints at the biscuit points. I always wondered if they were the guys
that hammered or tapped the biscuits in. If I find one they won't go
in with finger pressure or a very slight tap, at 0.02 each, I'll set
that one aside.
Robert
On May 30, 5:42 am, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> That will be why Lamello always sell cardboard boxes full of loose
> biscuits then, with no sealed plastic bags in sight, just a bit of
> paper telling you about the other biscuits in the range.
>
Lamello biscuits are very uniform in thickness and seldom flake apart.
But mine are just in a cardboard box in plastic bags...one is opened,
same thickness as the sealed bags.... I think we're over-reacting the
the biscuit storage issue. Maybe I should develop a biscuit humidor..
should sell well to all the anal wood-dorkers out there... freon
powered dryer...I'll make millions...MILLIONS!!!!
On May 30, 11:38 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I never had swelling issues.
That's more information than I need.
.
.
.
.
.
.
ohhh the biscuits...naaa.. I never had a problem with them either...
other than some cheapos I bough, which were all over the map in
thickness, and flaked apart. But that os years ago. Now I spend a few
extra dollars, and enjoy Lamello brand biscuits. I hear the Keebler
ones aren't too bad either.
On May 30, 10:47 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I never had swelling issues.
>
> That's more information than I need.
> .
> .
Hey, at least it isn't as bad as it was many years ago. High humidity
was as good an excuse as any for swelling issues!
I actually decided that after my personal experience with the biscuits
not needing a sterile, zero humidity, temperature controlled
environment that it was an issue that I should ignore on this venue.
Long held beliefs that are parroted by someone without actual
experience can be hard to shake loose.
Almost as bad are the talented and experienced. Once they have
something in their head... >>it must be right<< because they have
accepted it.
A while back, TW posted a very pithy reply to someone about the
biscuit joiner not having any value as a mechanical joining
mechanism. I never having believed that, I posted response with my
own crude experiments showing that it indeed, did. Then for something
for the more high toned, I posted a link to a commissioned study that
proved that in certain circumstances, not all, the biscuit joiner was
indeed a viable mechanical fastening device.
TW never responded. Even with a virtual plethora of empirical data
including the foundations of the testing protocols, he just went
away. Not one comment.
Now sitting here thinking, usually there was an announcement of the
farewell tour of a month or so before he left. Did I miss that?
robert
On May 30, 5:26 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been a
> job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the 557's
> big cutter for the FF cutter.
>
> Hmmm .... ;)
Oh noes!! Hurries!!! Maybe that $ 40.00 discount is still happenins!!!
On May 29, 8:16 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote: DeWalt(DW682K),
$198 or the PC(557) for $279.
I bought the Harbor Freight Tools model and it cuts the biscuit slots.
I would like to get a blade with a thinner kerf. It comes with some
biscuits. I found I could jam two of them in a slot - tight fit,
though - and would prefer a snug fit with just one biscuit. These
tools appear to be 4" grinders adapted to the task. THe HFT model is
weal i all respects (its about five years old now) but will do the job
with a little care and planning. If anyone knows where I can get a
tinner kerf blade to fit it . . .
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3tV6i.61935$V75.30889@edtnps89...
>
> "Aaron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have the PC 557 and highly recommend it. Your $279 price is pretty
>> high - I bought mine at Home Depot for around $200 a 4 or 5 months
>> ago.
>>
> Canadian dollars I should have added.
>
>
I don't know if you can get a good deal from Amazon.com in Canada, but the
PC557 is on sale in the US through May 30 for $177.98 US with free shipping.
I have a PC557 and have been very satisfied with it.
Bob
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:oBW6i.61942$V75.5810@edtnps89...
>> I don't know if you can get a good deal from Amazon.com in Canada, but
>> the PC557 is on sale in the US through May 30 for $177.98 US with free
>> shipping. I have a PC557 and have been very satisfied with it.
>>
>> Bob
> Sounds good but amazon.ca doesn't sell tools and amazon.com won't ship
> tools to Canada.
Bummer. I did not know that. Good luck. Bisuit joiners are not rocket
science. You are lookin at two models that have many satisfied customers.
Bob
efgh wrote:
>
> They ship via UPS and according to shipping instructions, UPS charges $16
> for the brokerage fees plus shipping charges. I'll stick to Lee Valley.
> Thanks.
So we're all supposed to guess you're not in the US after you mentioned
Home Depot? <G>
It's still a good deal for those who are, or if you need something else
from them, or wait for it... can walk in! <G>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The PC #FF biscuits for the mitered corners were all over the place in
> thickness, but only one out the one's I grabbed didn't go in with finger
> pressure. It was a different color, much darker than the others.
Conversely my bottle of PC FF biscuits were more consistent than any of the
others.
>
> It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been
> a
> job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the
> 557's
> big cutter for the FF cutter.
>
> Hmmm .... ;)
You know the drill, you should'a called. I betting the small Domino tennons
would be stronger than the FF biscuits also. ;~)
"Swingman" mused
>
> It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been
> a
> job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the
> 557's
> big cutter for the FF cutter.
>
That is, of course, assuming that those big buck tenons provided by Festool
don't vary all over the place in thickness.
"Aaron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have the PC 557 and highly recommend it. Your $279 price is pretty
> high - I bought mine at Home Depot for around $200 a 4 or 5 months
> ago.
>
Canadian dollars I should have added.
On Tue, 29 May 2007 12:16:45 GMT, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
>I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
>Any opinions?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
I have a PC 557 and like it a lot, however, was spoiled by having
shared ownership of the Delta stationary biscuit joiner. My partner
moved away and I let him have it. Boy do I miss that thing.
Frank
"efgh"
wrote in message
> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for
$279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
The PC has the ability to also do the smaller, face frame biscuits, which is
handy.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RE: Subject
>
> I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
> router when biscuits are necessary.
>
> Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of keeping a
> tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
>
> Lew
That set up can not make some of the cuts that a dedicated Plate Joiner can
make. Namely, a slot in the face of a panel to hang a shelf on.
For edge to edge, or edge to end applications you are all set.
I have had the predecessor to the DeWalt DW682K for 7-8 years. The newer
one is very similar. I am very happy with mine.
Seems like I paid closer to $150 - but again, it was several years ago.
RonB
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NQU6i.61930$V75.54463@edtnps89...
>I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> efgh wrote:
>> They ship via UPS and according to shipping instructions, UPS charges
>> $16 for the brokerage fees plus shipping charges. I'll stick to Lee
>> Valley. Thanks.
>
> So we're all supposed to guess you're not in the US after you mentioned
> Home Depot? <G>
You mean you couldn't tell by my Canadian accent, eh?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Even here in humid Houston I take no special precautions and its never
> been
> an issue.
What brand are you using. I have some Freud's and they are just as likely
to fall in the slot or need to be hammered. I keep them in a Tupperware
container. I strongly believe that brand has a lot to do with how well they
hold up in humid conditions. Or maybe it may likely be the quality control
at the factory. They may always have had to be hammered or soaked in water
for a decent fit. LOL.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
> router when biscuits are necessary.
I do the same sometimes, when I don't feel like marking out. I slot
both edges at the router table, stick biscuits wherever I want and glue
the edges together.
>
> Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of keeping
> a tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
>
Other than the speed of whipping it out, you can't undercut a door jamb
with a router. <G>
Stationary biscuit joiner tables do exist, and they're a lot like your
setup in a router table.
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> efgh wrote:
>>
>> Slightly off topic but I looked at the prices for the biscuits at HD
>> while I was looking at the joiners and I noticed that were priced at
>> about $5 for 50. When I got back to the office, I checked Lee Valley and
>> they sell them for $11.50 for 200 or $39.50 for 1000. I think I'll be
>> buying mine at LV.
>
>
> How about 1000 for $20:
>
> <http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/port/prbisc.htm?L+coastest+hgdn8321ff2cbd2c+1180615473>
They ship via UPS and according to shipping instructions, UPS charges $16
for the brokerage fees plus shipping charges. I'll stick to Lee Valley.
Thanks.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On May 30, 5:26 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been
>> a
>> job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the
>> 557's
>> big cutter for the FF cutter.
>>
>> Hmmm .... ;)
>
> Oh noes!! Hurries!!! Maybe that $ 40.00 discount is still happenins!!!
>
O N E more day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\
Actually with all the stuff I got I realized a savings of about $201
including tax.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> A while back, TW posted a very pithy reply to someone about the
> biscuit joiner not having any value as a mechanical joining
> mechanism. I never having believed that, I posted response with my
> own crude experiments showing that it indeed, did. Then for something
> for the more high toned, I posted a link to a commissioned study that
> proved that in certain circumstances, not all, the biscuit joiner was
> indeed a viable mechanical fastening device.
>
Heh. About 6 years ago I built a 2-seater with a slatted back for some friends.
All the slats were put in with bisquits. A couple of (hyperactive) kids have
been using that thing as a jungle gym ever since. Still as good'n tight as the
day the glue set.
I think it helps to use the good compressed beech Lamello bisquits rather than
some softwood junk, though. I've seen bisquits that looked like reconstituted
pine to me :-\
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> RE: Subject
>
> I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
> router when biscuits are necessary.
>
> Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of
> keeping a tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
>
> Lew
>
First one is the ease and speed of setting out and marking and making the cut,
but you said that yourself. Also, I have 2 planes of reference on my bisquit
joiner, where your router only has one.
What I cannot see is how you can make accurate bevelled/mitered slots with your
router. Not the easiest job with most bisquit joiners either, I will admit, but
do-able.
B.t.w. I fancy my Makita, or I could see myself using a Lamello, don't think
I'd go for a DeWalt - they're clunky by comparison. Never set eyes on a PC here
so far.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> I don't own a plate joiner either, but have been doing the same sorts
> of joinery with dowels and a doweling jig. I've also pondered "what I
> might be missing". As best as I can figure it, the only thing I'm
> really missing is speed. From watching things like New Yankee
> Workshop, it looks like it takes less time to pull out a biscuit
> joiner and cut some slots than it would to pull out the drill, chuck
> up a bit, adjust a depth stop on the bit, and then move the
> doweling jig around and drill the holes.
>
I used to use round dowels, and I wouldn't go back to them unless there was
absolutely NO feasible way of doing anything else. Just seen them fail too
often, partly because of the way they weaken the surrounding timber when
there's not enough meat, partly because of gluing surface issues (a round dowel
will always face a lot more endgrain than a correctly placed bisquit, and I am
not sure about the total gluing surface but I bet a bisquit has more), and
lastly I have seen a lot of dowels simply shear off, mostly where used in chair
and armchair construction (spreaders, skirts).
Clearly there's no way of using bisquits for the spreaders so I think I'd use a
proper mortise and tenon there. I'll get around to that set of chairs 'really
soon now'. Chairs are something I have simply never gotten to make so far in
over 25 years of building furniture :) Been meaning to do so for a decade ...
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
"Aaron" wrote in message
> 2. As with most PC stuff, it looked like you could hurl it from the
> top of a building without harming it.
Don't try that with the 557 ... the fence is cast and cracks fairly easily
when dropped, even while in the case.
I've known two 557's to do this. Mine was in the case and was dropped off a
lower bench shelf, less than a foot off the floor. Not an expensive fix, but
for a tool that you only take out just when you need it, it's a bummer to
have a project waiting around on a part.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On May 30, 8:11 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Leon I have been using the Porter Cable Brand for a long time and
> they have a pretty consistent "not quite snug finger push fit". I buy
> them at Amazon since they have the best price with free shipping on
> the 1000 pack.
I used to use PC and do recall them being less of a problem. Seems the more
recent biscuits are the ones with the problem. IIRC I would get 10-12 thick
ones in a new bundle of 1000. I have been using a plate joiner since 1989
and have used thousands. I really seldom use the new 557, well new 7 to 9
years ago, because of the inconsistancies in the biscuits that I was
getting. In the batch of biscuits that I was using last week I bet every
other biscuit hade to be hammered or persuaded with the clamps to close the
gap. Normally I would toss the biscuit but I was afraid I would run out. I
solved that problem with the Domino, I hope. ;~)
Either way I think the swelling is probably a mistaken condition that is
probably a QC problem 99% of the time with certain brands. IIRC I got a
deal on Lamello biscuits many years ago and they were very good.
Really and truely, if you consider that they are all stored in the same
place, if swelling was an issue it should affect all of them, not just a
few. Probably further proof that it is a QC problem rather than a swelling
problem
Now here is a hoot, I just measured my biscuits. Not sure of the blrand
but they have 20 USA on the side and hace a small diamopnd pattern around
the flat and surface where the lettering is. They measured any where from
.1565" to .1590" in thickness, a difference of up to 2.5 thousandths. Not
much.
In another container P -o-C on one side and 0 USA on the other and they
measure .1460", .1645", .1580", .1655", a difference of almost 2 hundredths.
So much for PC. LOL
According to PC their cutter cuts in widths of .155" to .160" 2 of the 4
biscuits would be a tight fit.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike" wrote in message
>
>> The commonly promulgated "advice" to seal biscuits in triple
>> hermetically sealed containers full of dry nitrogen and silica gel,
>> taking them out 10 seconds before applying glue etc keeps being
>> repeated but in my experience they only soak up moisture if you live
>> in stinkingly humid environment aka a swamp or a jungle or spill your
>> coffee over them.
>
> Even here in humid Houston I take no special precautions and its never
> been
> an issue.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/20/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
Slightly off topic but I looked at the prices for the biscuits at HD while I
was looking at the joiners and I noticed that were priced at about $5 for
50. When I got back to the office, I checked Lee Valley and they sell them
for $11.50 for 200 or $39.50 for 1000. I think I'll be buying mine at LV.
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm not looking for the additional strength but more to help with
> alignment
> issues when gluing up a panel. I've spent too much time planing and
sanding.
SFWIW, I don't even try.
Glue up oversize panels, then head for the drum sander shop.
End up with sanded to size (thickness) panels, no pain, no strain.
YMMV
Lew
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> "Leon" wrote in message
>>
>> "Swingman" wrote in message
>> >
>>
>> >
>> > Even here in humid Houston I take no special precautions and its
>> > never been
>> > an issue.
>>
>>
>> What brand are you using. I have some Freud's and they are just as
>> likely to fall in the slot or need to be hammered. I keep them in a
>> Tupperware container. I strongly believe that brand has a lot to do
>> with how well
> they
>> hold up in humid conditions. Or maybe it may likely be the quality
> control
>> at the factory. They may always have had to be hammered or soaked in
> water
>> for a decent fit. LOL.
>
> I have both PC brand that I've had around for years, in a size I don't
> use very often, and some that I do that I bought in a huge bag at the
> woodworking show a few years ago.
>
> Maybe, like plywood, biscuits aren't what they used to be?
>
> Speaking of which, yesterday I bought a sheet of QSWO 3/4" that had
> voids in it, and a sheet of both "Russian" and "Baltic" birch 1/2"
> plywood that is visibly not up the quality of the scraps left in the
> shop from the last time I bought, middle of last year.
>
> Things are more than halfway to hell in this country and you can now
> see/feel the heat in things like plywood in just a few months time.
>
Well, mebbe. Sometimes.
The neighbor who got me into this hobby was building a television stand
for one of his friends from work. Really nice oak veneer plywood.
Picked up at the local HD.
Some days, you're the windshield. Other days, the bug. ;-)
Patriarch
"Leon" wrote in message
> gap. Normally I would toss the biscuit but I was afraid I would run out.
I
> solved that problem with the Domino, I hope. ;~)
> Either way I think the swelling is probably a mistaken condition that is
> probably a QC problem 99% of the time with certain brands.
Due to the discussion hereabouts I paid attention this afternoon while using
both #20, and #FF biscuits, to frame 3/4" ply with 2" wide 3/4" oak edging.
The PC #FF biscuits for the mitered corners were all over the place in
thickness, but only one out the one's I grabbed didn't go in with finger
pressure. It was a different color, much darker than the others.
It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been a
job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the 557's
big cutter for the FF cutter.
Hmmm .... ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
efgh wrote:
>
> Slightly off topic but I looked at the prices for the biscuits at HD while I
> was looking at the joiners and I noticed that were priced at about $5 for
> 50. When I got back to the office, I checked Lee Valley and they sell them
> for $11.50 for 200 or $39.50 for 1000. I think I'll be buying mine at LV.
How about 1000 for $20:
<http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/port/prbisc.htm?L+coastest+hgdn8321ff2cbd2c+1180615473>
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" mused
>>
>> It dawned on me that the mitered end grain FF biscuit cut would have been
>> a
>> job for the Domino ... it would have kept me from having to change the
>> 557's
>> big cutter for the FF cutter.
>>
> That is, of course, assuming that those big buck tenons provided by
> Festool don't vary all over the place in thickness.
Yeah... although Festool does address this and indicates that the tennons
are coated with a material to lessen the possibility of swelling. Further,
they say that if the tennon does swell, the excess width on the sides of the
tennon will shear off as it is pressed into the hole. As it is right now,
the tennons fit tight enough in the smallest hole that you cannot easily
pull them back out. So far, not even with a pair of pliers. This is on the
perfect fit mortise setting.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
> That is, of course, assuming that those big buck tenons provided by
> Festool don't vary all over the place in thickness.
One more note, those big buck tennons are about the same price as a biscuit
assuming the same amount of wood mass.
The smallest tennons which would replace any sized biscuit are less than 4
cents each. Last time I bought biscuits in lots of 1,000 they were 3 cents
each.
Think shelves.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
> > T joints.
>
>
> You lose me?
>
> Lew
>
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
> router when biscuits are necessary.
> Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of
> keeping a tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
I don't own a plate joiner either, but have been doing the same sorts
of joinery with dowels and a doweling jig. I've also pondered "what I
might be missing". As best as I can figure it, the only thing I'm
really missing is speed. From watching things like New Yankee
Workshop, it looks like it takes less time to pull out a biscuit
joiner and cut some slots than it would to pull out the drill, chuck
up a bit, adjust a depth stop on the bit, and then move the
doweling jig around and drill the holes.
--
If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and
remove ".invalid".
Unless you're absolutely sure you'll want to use those tiny
biscuits (w/ required blade change) that the PC can handle,
go with the Dewalt. The vernier adjustment for the fence is
really nice and beats the PC hands down.
efgh wrote:
> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
My biscuits aren't stored especially carefully, but the PC ones are
fine while the cheap brand ones aren't (and weren't so great right
out of the container the first time).
goaway wrote:
> One important point about biscuits in general. They come in a sealed
> container. There is a VERY good reason they do. They will swell up with
> moisure if left out. This is made a whole lot worse in the summer and if you
> have a basement shop. If you buy the bicuits in bulk and do not go through
> them quickly, find a good way to keep them dry.
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>RE: Subject
>
>I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
>router when biscuits are necessary.
>
>Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of
>keeping a tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
>
>Lew
Cutting a slot in the middle of the face of a board, such as would be
made in an upright to hold a shelf.
--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
"Mike" wrote in message
> The commonly promulgated "advice" to seal biscuits in triple
> hermetically sealed containers full of dry nitrogen and silica gel,
> taking them out 10 seconds before applying glue etc keeps being
> repeated but in my experience they only soak up moisture if you live
> in stinkingly humid environment aka a swamp or a jungle or spill your
> coffee over them.
Even here in humid Houston I take no special precautions and its never been
an issue.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Mike Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unless you're absolutely sure you'll want to use those tiny
> biscuits (w/ required blade change) that the PC can handle,
> go with the Dewalt. The vernier adjustment for the fence is
> really nice and beats the PC hands down.
>
> efgh wrote:
>> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for
>> $279.
>> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>>
>> Any opinions?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
I got the Dewalt mostly because of the price. I didn't think I could
justify the additional $80.
Thanks for the opinions.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> A while back, TW posted a very pithy reply to someone about the
>> biscuit joiner not having any value as a mechanical joining
>> mechanism. I never having believed that, I posted response with my
>> own crude experiments showing that it indeed, did. Then for something
>> for the more high toned, I posted a link to a commissioned study that
>> proved that in certain circumstances, not all, the biscuit joiner was
>> indeed a viable mechanical fastening device.
>>
>> TW never responded. Even with a virtual plethora of empirical data
>> including the foundations of the testing protocols, he just went
>> away. Not one comment.
>>
>> Now sitting here thinking, usually there was an announcement of the
>> farewell tour of a month or so before he left. Did I miss that?
>>
>> robert
>>
>
> I have always believed/known that biscuits add a lot strength to a butt
> joint, mitered joint and when adding solid wood to the edge of plywood.
> not so much for solid wood joined edge to edge.
I'm not looking for the additional strength but more to help with alignment
issues when gluing up a panel. I've spent too much time planing and sanding
a panel to make it flat and needed a quicker solution. I'm sure there are
other solutions that are cheaper but hopefully this will work well for me.
Peter Huebner wrote:
> What I cannot see is how you can make accurate bevelled/mitered
slots with your
> router. Not the easiest job with most bisquit joiners either, I
will admit, but
> do-able.
Try to avoid miter cuts when at all possible, but if forced into using
a miter joint, can use a straight bit in a table mounted router and a
fence to cut a blind biscuit slot in the miter joint.
Lew
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:3tV6i.61935$V75.30889@edtnps89...
>>
>> "Aaron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I have the PC 557 and highly recommend it. Your $279 price is pretty
>>> high - I bought mine at Home Depot for around $200 a 4 or 5 months
>>> ago.
>>>
>> Canadian dollars I should have added.
>>
>>
>
> I don't know if you can get a good deal from Amazon.com in Canada, but the
> PC557 is on sale in the US through May 30 for $177.98 US with free
> shipping. I have a PC557 and have been very satisfied with it.
>
> Bob
Sounds good but amazon.ca doesn't sell tools and amazon.com won't ship tools
to Canada.
"efgh" wrote in message
> I'm not looking for the additional strength but more to help with
alignment
> issues when gluing up a panel. I've spent too much time planing and
sanding
> a panel to make it flat and needed a quicker solution. I'm sure there are
> other solutions that are cheaper but hopefully this will work well for me.
Biscuits do help with that goal, however they are not the final solution as
it generally takes a combination of methods/techniques, plus good clamps, to
get flat panels/parts.
Both edges being joined obviously need to be either 90 degrees, or
complementary angles, that add to 90 degrees. One way to insure this is an
edge joining technique whereby you alternate opposite faces of each joint
against the joiner fence, thereby insuring complementary angles even if
there is a slight discrepancy in either your table saw rip blade, or the
jointer fence.
After setting up the biscuit joiner, make sure that you cut all parts from
the same "reference" edge/face.
Also make sure that you use just the right amount of clamping pressure so as
not to bow the panel.
A final little trick I use during the glue-up is to add "clamp assists" on
the opposite ends of each glue joint. These help keep the panels/parts flat
and surfaces aligned when under clamping pressure:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/ClampAssist1.JPG
Or got to the Jigs and Fixtures page and scroll down to "I-beams/clamp
assists".
Just drill a number of aligned 1" holes in a long board, then rip down the
middle, then crosscut to size. I make boxes of these things at a time ...
like clamps, you can't have too many.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Aaron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have the PC 557 and highly recommend it. Your $279 price is pretty
> high - I bought mine at Home Depot for around $200 a 4 or 5 months
> ago.
>
> At the time I was mulling the same two models, I ended up going w/ the
> PC for 2 reasons:
> 1. It got almost universal praise in this current iteration (Type 3)
> - previous versions had some fence issues. Make sure you end up with
> a Type 3 (or later?).
Actually if you can get an older Type 1, the fence is fine. It was changed
on the Type 2 to get out of a patent problem with DeWalt and the Type 3
fixed the Type 2 "patch".
> 2. As with most PC stuff, it looked like you could hurl it from the
> top of a building without harming it. I take care of my tools, but I
> always appreciate something built to live longer than me.
Unfortunately none of the PC stuff is built as well as it was 15-20 years
ago. I have had 6 PC tools over the years and the earlier tools were
certainly better built than their replacements. PC has not faired well in
recent years since it has fallen to "step child" status.
>
> The only downside I've noticed is that it does make a bit of a racket
> - kind of a metal on metal noise that I've read is completely normal
> for this model.
Yeah that is normal. My previous PC Biscuit Jointer, the model before the
557 was almost whisper quiet by compairison and belt driven.
On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:41:57 -0400, "goaway" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>One important point about biscuits in general. They come in a sealed
>container. There is a VERY good reason they do. They will swell up with
>moisure if left out. This is made a whole lot worse in the summer and if you
>have a basement shop. If you buy the bicuits in bulk and do not go through
>them quickly, find a good way to keep them dry. I acutally used the plastic
>food saver vacum bag system. It does work well. Good luck with the Biscuit
>joiner, what ever the brand may be.
That will be why Lamello always sell cardboard boxes full of loose
biscuits then, with no sealed plastic bags in sight, just a bit of
paper telling you about the other biscuits in the range.
The commonly promulgated "advice" to seal biscuits in triple
hermetically sealed containers full of dry nitrogen and silica gel,
taking them out 10 seconds before applying glue etc keeps being
repeated but in my experience they only soak up moisture if you live
in stinkingly humid environment aka a swamp or a jungle or spill your
coffee over them.
I've no air conditioning in my house and live where there is around
6ft of rainfall per annum (6 inches of snow) with temperatures ranging
from -10deg F to 90 deg F over the year and humidity ranging from 40 -
90+% I've a couple of loose biscuits close to my desk that have sat
there for at least 2 years and maybe longer, the desk is 10 feet from
the opening into the kitchen that regularly produces massive changes
in local humidity. I just measured these old biscuits against a few
selected at random from a new box that I bought earlier this year that
have since sat in an air conditioned workshop. They are within three
thousandths of an inch of each other in thickness. (0.157"- 0.160")
......but, and this slightly amused me, the thickest ones are the new
stock.
--
"Hoosierpopi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On May 29, 8:16 am, "efgh" <[email protected]> wrote: DeWalt(DW682K),
> $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
>
> I bought the Harbor Freight Tools model and it cuts the biscuit slots.
> I would like to get a blade with a thinner kerf. It comes with some
> biscuits. I found I could jam two of them in a slot - tight fit,
> though - and would prefer a snug fit with just one biscuit. These
> tools appear to be 4" grinders adapted to the task. THe HFT model is
> weal i all respects (its about five years old now) but will do the job
> with a little care and planning. If anyone knows where I can get a
> tinner kerf blade to fit it . . .
>
I see you got what you paid for. You can always have the existing blade
Blanchard ground :)
Makita
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "efgh"
> wrote in message
>> I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for
> $279.
>> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>>
>> Any opinions?
>
> The PC has the ability to also do the smaller, face frame biscuits, which
> is
> handy.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/20/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>
>
>
>
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RE: Subject
>
> I don't have a dedicated biscuit joiner, just use a wing cutter in a
> router when biscuits are necessary.
>
> Other than having a dedicated tool with it's obvious benefits of
> keeping a tool set up and speed of operation, what else am I missing?
T joints.
I have The Porter Cable unit. With ANY biscuit joiner, I would recommend
practicing on some scrap wood first. This will reduce the need to replace
project wood which can be pricey. I have used the smaller biscuits on some
face frame work. I have never used any other biscuit joiner.
One important point about biscuits in general. They come in a sealed
container. There is a VERY good reason they do. They will swell up with
moisure if left out. This is made a whole lot worse in the summer and if you
have a basement shop. If you buy the bicuits in bulk and do not go through
them quickly, find a good way to keep them dry. I acutally used the plastic
food saver vacum bag system. It does work well. Good luck with the Biscuit
joiner, what ever the brand may be.
"efgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NQU6i.61930$V75.54463@edtnps89...
>I have the choice between the DeWalt(DW682K), $198 or the PC(557) for $279.
> I'm leaning towards the DeWalt mostly because of the price.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> A while back, TW posted a very pithy reply to someone about the
> biscuit joiner not having any value as a mechanical joining
> mechanism. I never having believed that, I posted response with my
> own crude experiments showing that it indeed, did. Then for something
> for the more high toned, I posted a link to a commissioned study that
> proved that in certain circumstances, not all, the biscuit joiner was
> indeed a viable mechanical fastening device.
>
> TW never responded. Even with a virtual plethora of empirical data
> including the foundations of the testing protocols, he just went
> away. Not one comment.
>
> Now sitting here thinking, usually there was an announcement of the
> farewell tour of a month or so before he left. Did I miss that?
>
> robert
>
I have always believed/known that biscuits add a lot strength to a butt
joint, mitered joint and when adding solid wood to the edge of plywood. not
so much for solid wood joined edge to edge.