On 2/20/2016 9:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500
> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times. Now
>> I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running inside
>> the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of the
>> cases.
>
> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>
> seems like they would be hard to clog
>
>
> of course anything is possible
>
>
I think you'll be fine if you make sure you have a powerful system.
Don't choke your system down to 4", that will choke the air requried to
move the dust.
I would not have had gaps in the floor. I would have sawed a hole and
sistered the holes with plywood on both sides to keep the joists one
piece. I assume you shorted the joists by using 6" joists. I hope that
it works.
--
Jeff
On 2/20/2016 11:05 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>> the cases.
>>>
>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>
>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>
>>>
>>> of course anything is possible
>>>
>>
>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>> trap bigger objects.
>>
>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>> second guess it.
>>
>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>
> With liquids there must be a 5% drop in a horizontal line as well, I
> would suspect the same thing is true on a horizontal vacuum line as
> well. If so, then he is in for big problems unless the entire floor is
> sloped.
>
Not necessary, this is not a gravity fed egress system.
--
Jeff
On 2/20/2016 9:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>> the cases.
>>
>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>
>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>
>>
>> of course anything is possible
>>
>
> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
> trap bigger objects.
>
> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
> second guess it.
>
> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
> allllllll the way out the drain.
>
>
Not necessarily. If he has enough impeller and enough HP it will work.
4" generally chokes systems, so 5-6 is a better choice, but more
impeller, and hp is definetly necessary.
--
Jeff
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> In the context of dust collection, I contend that slope is irrelevant.
>
I noticed something interesting flipping through my copy of Pocket Ref.
(The reference book. It's not Puckdropper's Guide to the Face Off dot. :-))
The dump angle of most dry materials was at a minimum 35 degrees and quite
often around 45. So, I agree that in dust collection slope is indeed
irrelevent.
Puckdropper
"SnA Higgins" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Lots of joist / floor sheeting expense. Once the equipment is in
> place you're not going to lift the floor sheeting for repairs. Why
> not cut paths in the concrete. Grout over. Add cleanouts where a snake
> with suction and / or pressure to move the clog can be used for
> maintenance.
>
That's great if your shop setup never changes. I've been meaning to
rearrange mine for over a year, but part of the problem I've got is I
have to make room for the stuff I'm moving first. Life intervenes and
suddenly I'm busy with work.
We all get new equipment from time to time, or have a shelf that
rearranges the work shop*. If you're determined to not have stuff
hanging from the ceiling, might as well make it so you can change it
without too much hassle when the time comes.
* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.woodworking/C-rPCnMHzr8
Puckdropper
Electric Comet wrote:
>
>
> http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromSWCorner800x600.jpg
>
> http://rs399.pbsrc.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromNWCorner800x600.jpg
>
>
> nicely done too
>
I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had blockages
requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times. Now I have
mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running inside the
pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of the cases.
--
GW Ross
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...
On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 11:47:34 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 2/21/16 9:41 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 2/20/2016 9:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500
>>> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times. Now
>>>> I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running inside
>>>> the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of the
>>>> cases.
>>>
>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>
>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>
>>>
>>> of course anything is possible
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think you'll be fine if you make sure you have a powerful system.
>> Don't choke your system down to 4", that will choke the air requried to
>> move the dust.
>>
>> I would not have had gaps in the floor. I would have sawed a hole and
>> sistered the holes with plywood on both sides to keep the joists one
>> piece. I assume you shorted the joists by using 6" joists. I hope that
>> it works.
>>
>
>There is virtually no span to speak of on those joists, so I don't see
>any problem at all with how it's done, especially when I see them
>supported at each side of the pipe.
>
>I would, however, suggest diagonal strapping or solid joist blocking
>near the cutouts in this picture.
><http://s399.photobucket.com/user/wbrian63/media/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/TheDeckGoesDown800x600.jpg.html>
He really needs blocking near the piping as well. Where the runners
are cut off.
On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>> the cases.
>>
>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>
>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>
>>
>> of course anything is possible
>>
>
>The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
>The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>trap bigger objects.
>
>IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>second guess it.
>
>Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>allllllll the way out the drain.
With liquids there must be a 5% drop in a horizontal line as well, I
would suspect the same thing is true on a horizontal vacuum line as
well. If so, then he is in for big problems unless the entire floor is
sloped.
On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500
"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times. Now
> I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running inside
> the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of the
> cases.
those ducts in the floor are 6"
seems like they would be hard to clog
of course anything is possible
On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>> the cases.
>
> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>
> seems like they would be hard to clog
>
>
> of course anything is possible
>
The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
trap bigger objects.
IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
second guess it.
Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
allllllll the way out the drain.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/20/2016 5:05 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
>
> http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromSWCorner800x600.jpg
>
> http://rs399.pbsrc.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromNWCorner800x600.jpg
>
>
> nicely done too
That's like installing drywall on the ceiling of a basement, covering
all pipes and electrical. When something goes wrong, have fun tearing it
all apart to gain access. Not wise, IMO.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 2/20/16 10:05 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>> the cases.
>>>
>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>
>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>
>>>
>>> of course anything is possible
>>>
>>
>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>> trap bigger objects.
>>
>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>> second guess it.
>>
>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>
> With liquids there must be a 5% drop in a horizontal line as well, I
> would suspect the same thing is true on a horizontal vacuum line as
> well. If so, then he is in for big problems unless the entire floor is
> sloped.
>
Not trying to argue, but I think that's apples and oranges.
Slope is irrelevant to a dust collector system, otherwise how would you
be able to run the pipe overhead.
The sole energy source for drain lines is gravity, which is why slope is
so critical. Too much slope and the liquid outruns the solids. Too
little slope and the solid won't run at all.
Dust collectors work on vacuum alone until they hit the collection tank.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 02/21/2016 1:40 AM, OFWW wrote:
...
> Out of curiosity I did a quick search for installation recommendations
> from an engineering standpoint and only found concerns for line
> sizing, ELL's WYE's and proper flowing of the lines. Nothing about the
> drop, so I am most likely wrong in that area. Yet they do speak of
> dust fallout in the lines
That's owing to low velocity in the line, not slope. It's keeping
velocity up that is so critical in sizing lines; w/o sufficient air
volume flow, a larger line will drop material and eventually fill up.
--
On 2/21/16 1:40 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 23:31:08 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/20/16 10:05 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>>>> the cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>>>
>>>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> of course anything is possible
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
>>>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>>>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>>>> trap bigger objects.
>>>>
>>>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>>>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>>>> second guess it.
>>>>
>>>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>>>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>>>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>>>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>>>
>>> With liquids there must be a 5% drop in a horizontal line as well, I
>>> would suspect the same thing is true on a horizontal vacuum line as
>>> well. If so, then he is in for big problems unless the entire floor is
>>> sloped.
>>>
>>
>> Not trying to argue, but I think that's apples and oranges.
>> Slope is irrelevant to a dust collector system, otherwise how would you
>> be able to run the pipe overhead.
>> The sole energy source for drain lines is gravity, which is why slope is
>> so critical. Too much slope and the liquid outruns the solids. Too
>> little slope and the solid won't run at all.
>> Dust collectors work on vacuum alone until they hit the collection tank.
>
> Well the main reason I was thinking of slope is that even in
> commercial refrigeration there needed to be a 5 deg (not %,my mistake)
> whether the line was the liquid or the gas side. In large part due to
> the oil flow so that the oil that leaves the compressor will return to
> it. I was just guessing that the same thing should be done to a vacuum
> line because of the particles of heavier dust chunks would coat the
> bottom of the lines. But then I could be dead wrong on that when it
> comes to dust control. :) (5 deg drop in 10 feet, regardless if
> underground or overhead)
>
We added another fruit with the compressor thing. :-)
A compressor pipe has gas and liquids in it, so they obviously have to
accommodate both types of fluid flow.
I may be wrong, but I'm thinking if there are any dust chunks coating
the bottom of vacuum ducting, the line it too long for the vacuum or
there are obstructions in the line.
> Out of curiosity I did a quick search for installation recommendations
> from an engineering standpoint and only found concerns for line
> sizing, ELL's WYE's and proper flowing of the lines. Nothing about the
> drop, so I am most likely wrong in that area. Yet they do speak of
> dust fallout in the lines
>
In the context of dust collection, I contend that slope is irrelevant.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/21/16 9:32 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/20/2016 9:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>> the cases.
>>>
>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>
>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>
>>>
>>> of course anything is possible
>>>
>>
>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to
>> clog.
>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>> trap bigger objects.
>>
>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>> second guess it.
>>
>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>>
>>
> Not necessarily. If he has enough impeller and enough HP it will work.
> 4" generally chokes systems, so 5-6 is a better choice, but more
> impeller, and hp is definetly necessary.
>
True. I'm also guessing, as with HVAC ducting, the pipe size in the
run, especially with offshoots, has to be calculated to maintain full
pressure all along the run.
Are there dust collectors with 6" impeller inputs? Probably.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/21/16 9:41 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/20/2016 9:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500
>> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times. Now
>>> I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running inside
>>> the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of the
>>> cases.
>>
>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>
>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>
>>
>> of course anything is possible
>>
>>
>
> I think you'll be fine if you make sure you have a powerful system.
> Don't choke your system down to 4", that will choke the air requried to
> move the dust.
>
> I would not have had gaps in the floor. I would have sawed a hole and
> sistered the holes with plywood on both sides to keep the joists one
> piece. I assume you shorted the joists by using 6" joists. I hope that
> it works.
>
There is virtually no span to speak of on those joists, so I don't see
any problem at all with how it's done, especially when I see them
supported at each side of the pipe.
I would, however, suggest diagonal strapping or solid joist blocking
near the cutouts in this picture.
<http://s399.photobucket.com/user/wbrian63/media/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/TheDeckGoesDown800x600.jpg.html>
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/20/2016 10:05 PM, Meanie wrote:
> That's like installing drywall on the ceiling of a basement, covering
> all pipes and electrical. When something goes wrong, have fun tearing it
> all apart to gain access. Not wise, IMO.
How about sewer lines? They clog up and you run a snake. If for some
reason this clogs up, which "shouldn't" happen, could he run a snake?
Otherwise, I'd want the boards covering the pipe to be removable. That's
how I'd do it.
On my system, nothing but fine powder gets to my large pipes and fan,
and they will never, ever clog up. I pre-filter everything and coming
from the ceiling works fine.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 2/21/2016 1:57 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 2/20/2016 10:05 PM, Meanie wrote:
>
>> That's like installing drywall on the ceiling of a basement, covering
>> all pipes and electrical. When something goes wrong, have fun tearing it
>> all apart to gain access. Not wise, IMO.
>
> How about sewer lines? They clog up and you run a snake. If for some
> reason this clogs up, which "shouldn't" happen, could he run a snake?
> Otherwise, I'd want the boards covering the pipe to be removable. That's
> how I'd do it.
>
> On my system, nothing but fine powder gets to my large pipes and fan,
> and they will never, ever clog up. I pre-filter everything and coming
> from the ceiling works fine.
>
Good point. That's something I didn't consider on the spur of the moment
reply. The only drawback on that is having some sort of snake on hand
unless you want to call a plumber.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
"Electric Comet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromSWCorner800x600.jpg
>
> http://rs399.pbsrc.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromNWCorner800x600.jpg
>
>
> nicely done too
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Lots of joist / floor sheeting expense. Once the equipment is in place
you're not going to lift the floor sheeting for repairs. Why not cut paths
in the concrete. Grout over. Add cleanouts where a snake with suction and /
or pressure to move the clog can be used for maintenance.
On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 10:41:04 -0500
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think you'll be fine if you make sure you have a powerful system.
right
the collector needs to provide enough power and also filter the big
chunks
i did not see the collector unit in the pictures
> I would not have had gaps in the floor. I would have sawed a hole and
> sistered the holes with plywood on both sides to keep the joists one
> piece. I assume you shorted the joists by using 6" joists. I hope
> that it works.
looked to me like they needed to get to work and not sweat the small
stuff
he could always go back and fix those up
On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 11:37:38 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 2/21/16 9:32 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 2/20/2016 9:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>>> the cases.
>>>>
>>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>>
>>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> of course anything is possible
>>>>
>>>
>>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to
>>> clog.
>>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>>> trap bigger objects.
>>>
>>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>>> second guess it.
>>>
>>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>>>
>>>
>> Not necessarily. If he has enough impeller and enough HP it will work.
>> 4" generally chokes systems, so 5-6 is a better choice, but more
>> impeller, and hp is definetly necessary.
>>
>
>True. I'm also guessing, as with HVAC ducting, the pipe size in the
>run, especially with offshoots, has to be calculated to maintain full
>pressure all along the run.
>
>Are there dust collectors with 6" impeller inputs? Probably.
Sure. They're quite common. Mine has a 6" intake, with a 2x4"
adapter on it.
On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 23:31:08 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 2/20/16 10:05 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 20:42:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/20/16 8:25 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:31:55 -0500 "G. Ross" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had centralized dust collection for 20 years. I've had
>>>>> blockages requiring taking it apart to clean it out three times.
>>>>> Now I have mine overhead. I also removed the ground wire running
>>>>> inside the pipes, as those were the cause of the blockage in two of
>>>>> the cases.
>>>>
>>>> those ducts in the floor are 6"
>>>>
>>>> seems like they would be hard to clog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> of course anything is possible
>>>>
>>>
>>> The fact that they are 6" is precisely the reason they are likely to clog.
>>> The air has more space to fill and would slow down causing more debris
>>> to settle. Like silt on the bottom of a river, it can build up and even
>>> trap bigger objects.
>>>
>>> IMO, if your dust collector calls for 4" duct.
>>> Some engineers got paid good money to figure that out, don't try to
>>> second guess it.
>>>
>>> Something similar happens in waste plumbing. People think if 3" is
>>> what's called for, then 4" must be better. Wrong. Waste water can
>>> travel faster and higher in 3" pipe, which is better for flushing poo
>>> allllllll the way out the drain.
>>
>> With liquids there must be a 5% drop in a horizontal line as well, I
>> would suspect the same thing is true on a horizontal vacuum line as
>> well. If so, then he is in for big problems unless the entire floor is
>> sloped.
>>
>
>Not trying to argue, but I think that's apples and oranges.
>Slope is irrelevant to a dust collector system, otherwise how would you
>be able to run the pipe overhead.
>The sole energy source for drain lines is gravity, which is why slope is
>so critical. Too much slope and the liquid outruns the solids. Too
>little slope and the solid won't run at all.
>Dust collectors work on vacuum alone until they hit the collection tank.
Well the main reason I was thinking of slope is that even in
commercial refrigeration there needed to be a 5 deg (not %,my mistake)
whether the line was the liquid or the gas side. In large part due to
the oil flow so that the oil that leaves the compressor will return to
it. I was just guessing that the same thing should be done to a vacuum
line because of the particles of heavier dust chunks would coat the
bottom of the lines. But then I could be dead wrong on that when it
comes to dust control. :) (5 deg drop in 10 feet, regardless if
underground or overhead)
Out of curiosity I did a quick search for installation recommendations
from an engineering standpoint and only found concerns for line
sizing, ELL's WYE's and proper flowing of the lines. Nothing about the
drop, so I am most likely wrong in that area. Yet they do speak of
dust fallout in the lines
On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:05:43 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromSWCorner800x600.jpg
>
>http://rs399.pbsrc.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/Kirkwood%20Workshop/800x600%20Images/FloorStructurefromNWCorner800x600.jpg
>
>
>nicely done too
I see a lot of loose ends there.
On 2/21/2016 2:40 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> Not trying to argue, but I think that's apples and oranges.
>> Slope is irrelevant to a dust collector system, otherwise how would you
>> be able to run the pipe overhead.
>> The sole energy source for drain lines is gravity, which is why slope is
>> so critical. Too much slope and the liquid outruns the solids. Too
>> little slope and the solid won't run at all.
>> Dust collectors work on vacuum alone until they hit the collection tank.
>
> Well the main reason I was thinking of slope is that even in
> commercial refrigeration there needed to be a 5 deg (not %,my mistake)
> whether the line was the liquid or the gas side. In large part due to
> the oil flow so that the oil that leaves the compressor will return to
> it. I was just guessing that the same thing should be done to a vacuum
> line because of the particles of heavier dust chunks would coat the
> bottom of the lines. But then I could be dead wrong on that when it
> comes to dust control. :) (5 deg drop in 10 feet, regardless if
> underground or overhead)
No slope needed. Proper size for the vacuum is what is needed, be it 6"
or 4" as commonly used in wood shops. At work we move plastic material
the same way a DC works. Typical run is 50' horizontal, up 18' vertical
up to 200' horizontal, then vertical drop. Slope, sags, dips make no
difference if properly sized.