Leon wrote:
>
> How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
> ==============
You know the classic centering trick with a combination square. Measure
from each side of the stock and pick your point in the middle of the two
lines is there is a discrepancy. I am suspicious of tape measure
measurements. They can be deceptive and often wrong for no apparent reason.
I find this to be true more and more as I get older and my eyesight is not
as good as it used to be.
Sooooo.... if I needed to be absolutely sure of a midpoint, I would come up
with a stick that is a little longer than midpoint. Mark from both sides.
Then go to the middle of that. It is hard to screw this method up. It is
easy to screw up with a mesuring tape.
And measuring twice does not always catch mistakes either. I am finding by
using the stick method, I make less mistakes and waste less wood.
--
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>> mark wrote:
>>
>>>> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
>>> Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
>>> spacings you choose. If you choose the intermediate-fixed-point method
>>> the only requirement is to make the number of intermediates chosen an
>>> even divisor of the total number of increments wanted so those points
>>> are at the proper position. Then if they're off by <1/32" which is
>>> pretty easy to hit, that minor amount when split over the distance is
>>> indetectible.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> I believe with your method you will end up with narrower distances on
>> left and right side outer spaces. You have to subtract the combined
>> width of all balusters from the total opening and divide that result by
>> the number of desired spaces or the number of balusters + 1.
>
> No, it ends up w/ equal centerlines which is what OP asked for.
Actually if you read again what he wants he indicates,
I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
He details that he wants equal spacing between dividing objects.
If he wants equal spacing between drawers and or balusters you have to take
into consideration the total width of all of the objects that will divide.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 21, 10:08 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:eb585264-922f-46ff-96d2-1c78589f60c4@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> I found the problem with using a spacer stick is that if it is off by
> a tiny amount the errors accumulate. 1/32" error X 16 baluster and you
> are off by 1/2" at the end. It helps by starting at the midpoint and
> working both way, that way you would only have 1/4" at either end and
> your eye is less likely to pick it up. As for marking the centers for
> baluster, could you not simply extend the tape beyond the starting
> point by 1/2 the baluster width and the same for the end.
>
> That is a good tip!
>
> How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
>
> ;~)
Midpoint? Simple. It is usually somewhere around two quarters of the
total distnace between the two endpoints from the left and 3/6th from
the right. If you want to get really accurate, you can use 7/14th's.
Sky's the limit *S*
Same as 1/tooth, right?
On Apr 20, 7:24=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > At least it wasn't done in SU, so it should work.....<g,d&r>
>
> Hmmm ... come to think of it, SU Pro uses spreadsheet formulas for
> dynamic component creation.
>
> =A0 ... stand by. =A0;)
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Oh noes!! What have I done????
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:19:31 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> mark wrote:
>
>>> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
>>
>> Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
>> spacings you choose. If you choose the intermediate-fixed-point method
>> the only requirement is to make the number of intermediates chosen an even
>> divisor of the total number of increments wanted so those points are at
>> the proper position. Then if they're off by <1/32" which is pretty easy
>> to hit, that minor amount when split over the distance is indetectible.
>>
>> --
>
>I believe with your method you will end up with narrower distances on left
>and right side outer spaces. You have to subtract the combined width of
>all balusters from the total opening and divide that result by the number of
>desired spaces or the number of balusters + 1.
>
...do this and then cut a stick representing the space. Do a dry run
to confirm...if there's any difference at the end compensate equally
amongst the uprights (i.e., if I go thru the dry run and find I'm 5/8"
long at the end and I have, say, 10 uprights, then I'll compensate
roughly 1/16" per space to make up for the difference. Check once in
awhile to see where I'm at. This way I can use the same stick
throughout the project, eh?) Oh, the stick also comes in handy for a
backer when you're nailing or screwing...
cg
-MIKE- wrote:
> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>
> The device looks like this thing:
> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
I have one of these in my shop:
http://www.m-powertools.com/products/point-2-point/point-2-point.htm
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Leon wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>> How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
>> Fold it in half and crease the fold. When you straighten it out again, the
>> crease will be at the midpoint.
>
> Half would make 2 pieces?
Umm - if you broke it, just smear the ends with bondo and re-assemble.
Try to not break the next one. ;-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:43:15 -0400, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I don't know where you live but before you proceed to far you may wish
>to check the building codes. Some have very specific ideas about how
>far balusters should be apart. I believe the basic is that a small
>child's head should not be able to get his head through the spaces.
Verbatim from my post immediately preceding the one you quoted:
=====
Since the maximum baluster spacing is often set by code (don't want
children to get there heads caught between balusters), that makes a
good start point for laying out the pattern.
1. Choose the spacing you want, "D", less than or equal to the code
required maximum.
=======
'nuff said???
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:34:06 -0700, Charlie Groh
<[email protected]> wrote:
>the
>main choice is 'do you want to vary the spaces between balusters from
>bay to bay, or keep those spaces the same for the entire job?' Here,
>I usually opt for door #2 and keep those spaces the same; letting the
>end measurements vary *evenly* side-to-side.
Agree!
Variation in spacing from bay to bay is more visually objectionable
than a smaller spacing at the ends of bays. The visual flow is already
broken by the boundary of the bay (post, wall, etc.), so there's where
the "odd sized" spaces should be.
Since the maximum baluster spacing is often set by code (don't want
children to get there heads caught between balusters), that makes a
good start point for laying out the pattern.
1. Choose the spacing you want, "D", less than or equal to the code
required maximum.
2. Let the width of a baluster be "W" - assuming all the balusters are
the same width.
3. Calculate the number of balusters in the bay, "N", where the length
of bay = "B": Since the number of spaces is 1 more than the number of
balusters, B = W x N + D x (N+1) and solve for N = (B-D)/(W+D).
4. Since that calculation rarely gives a whole number for "N", round
it up to the next whole number, and you have the number of balusters
for that bay. Round up instead of down so that the end spaces are
smaller than "D" instead of larger than "D".
5. If N is an odd number, the centerline of the center baluster
coincides with the midpoint of the bay. If N is an even number, the
space between the two center balusters is centered on the midpoint of
the bay.
6. Layout the baluster positions from the centered baluster(s), with
"D" separation, using whatever method pleases you - spacers, story
stick, tape measure, whatever.
Really simple - One decision (width of baluster spacing, D), two
measurements (width of bay, B, and width of baluster, W), and one
simple calculation and the entire bay of balusters is fully defined.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Apr 20, 7:01=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:04:56 -0700, mark wrote:
> > I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you divid=
e
> > a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance putting
> > ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4 face fram=
e
> > dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
>
> Measure the distance. =A0Subtract the total width of the balusters. =A0Di=
vide
> by the # of balusters + 1. =A0Cut a spacer from scrap to that width.
>
> That's how I did my porch.
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Works for me, Larry.
On Apr 21, 10:08=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:eb585264-922f-46ff-96d2-1c78589f60c4@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> I found the problem with using a spacer stick is that if it is off by
> a tiny amount the errors accumulate. 1/32" error X 16 baluster and you
> are off by 1/2" at the end. It helps by starting at the midpoint and
> working both way, that way you would only have 1/4" at either end and
> your eye is less likely to pick it up. As for marking the centers for
> baluster, could you not simply extend the tape beyond the starting
> point by 1/2 the baluster width and the same for the end.
>
> That is a good tip!
>
> How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
>
> ;~)
Midpoint? Simple. It is usually somewhere around two quarters of the
total distnace between the two endpoints from the left and 3/6th from
the right. If you want to get really accurate, you can use 7/14th's.
Sky's the limit *S*
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody wrote:
>
>> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
>> "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
>> narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
>
> The first and last baluster space will be in error by 1/2 ballluster
> thickness if you attempt to layout centerlines.
>
> Lew
Ahhh the voice of experience!
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:51:59 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> I think we're getting lost in the words.
>
>Probably so!
>
>
>> Since a picture is worth a thousand of them, I made a diagram explaining
>> how that accordion pantograph thingy would work easily.
>>
>> I have two blue blocks spaced apart. I have six yellow blocks I want to
>> space evenly between the blue blocks.
>> I spread out the divider tool and put each end into the blue block a
>> distance equal to half the width of a yellow block.
>> This gives me centerlines for the yellow blocks that result in even
>> spacing.
>>
>> http://www.mikedrums.com/dividers.png
>
>
>I believe you have it. IMHO it would be easier to simply "so the math" and
>cut a spacer to the required space width.
...right, cut a stick. Sticks rule...pardon the intentional pun.
cg
>
mark wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
Do you want equal spacing between centers, or equal "whitespace" between
outside edges?
If the first, then measure center-to-center, divide by the number of
gaps, and mark the centers.
If the second, measure inside-edge-to-inside-edge, subtract the combined
width of all the ballusters/dividers, then divide by how many gaps there
will be. When marking, you would then mark the gap, then the width of
the balluster/divider, then the gap...
If your ballusters/dividers are all the same size, you can simplify the
layout by taking the calculated gap and adding half the width of the
balluster/divider. Marking multiples of this size will give you the
centers of the ballusters/dividers.
Chris
Tom Veatch wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:14:30 -0500, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Really simple - One decision (width of baluster spacing, D), two
>> measurements (width of bay, B, and width of baluster, W), and one
>> simple calculation and the entire bay of balusters is fully defined.
>
>
> Sample:
>
> We have a bay 6' 4" long that we want to fill with 1 3/8" balusters
> with 3 1/2" open space between balusters.
>
> D = 3.5"
> B = 6' 4" = 76"
> W = 1.375"
>
> N = (B-D)/(W+D) = (76-3.5)/(1.375+3.5) = 14.871
> Rounding N up to the next whole number, N =15
>
> Since the number of balusters, 15, is odd, the centerline of the
> center baluster is centered on the bay (38" from either end), the
> clear space between each baluster is 3 1/2", and the clear space
> between the end balusters and the end of the bay is 3 3/16".
> Calculating the end spacing, 3 3/16", isn't necessary and is left as
> an exercise for the reader, if so inclined.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA
I don't know where you live but before you proceed to far you may wish
to check the building codes. Some have very specific ideas about how
far balusters should be apart. I believe the basic is that a small
child's head should not be able to get his head through the spaces.
"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
You have to remember the width of the balusters if you want equal distances
between each baluster.
If your face frame has a 48" opening and you want to put 3 equal width
drawers in that space, and the face frame dividers are 2" wide, take 48"
subtract 2x2" for the face frame dividers and divide the result by 3.
48"- 4" = 44" , 44" / 3 = 14.67" Spacing between each divider.
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:04:56 -0700, mark wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you divide
> a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance putting
> ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4 face frame
> dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
Measure the distance. Subtract the total width of the balusters. Divide
by the # of balusters + 1. Cut a spacer from scrap to that width.
That's how I did my porch.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Tom Veatch wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:43:15 -0400, Keith Nuttle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I don't know where you live but before you proceed to far you may wish
>> to check the building codes. Some have very specific ideas about how
>> far balusters should be apart. I believe the basic is that a small
>> child's head should not be able to get his head through the spaces.
>
>
> Verbatim from my post immediately preceding the one you quoted:
>
> =====
> Since the maximum baluster spacing is often set by code (don't want
> children to get there heads caught between balusters), that makes a
> good start point for laying out the pattern.
>
> 1. Choose the spacing you want, "D", less than or equal to the code
> required maximum.
> =======
>
> 'nuff said???
>
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA
Sorry our post must have crossed in the mail. Is this a new type of
cross posting?
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> I didn't realize he wanted someone to come over and do it for him. :-)
>
> I though something like that pantograph (that's the word I was looking
> for) devise would take the math out of the process.
>
> Don't you agree that anyone with a moderate amount of experience could
> use it to do similar tasks to what the OP was asking?
No, I do not agree. sorry, I have run across this time and time again
using drawing programs where you can tell the CAD program to equally divide
a line and then center dividers with width greater than "zero" on those
points. You get unequal spacing on the outer spaces.
I find the easiest way is to multiply the number of dividers by their width
and subtract that amount from the given area that they should be equally
space in. then divide that number by the number of dividers +1.
And moving the outer points 1/2' the width of the spacer exaggerates the
error.
RE: Subject
There is a straight forward graphical solution.
1) Draw a line at an angle, say 30 degrees to the intended line, that
has been divided into the number of spaces req'd. (A)
2) Draw a line from the end of the line to be divided (B) to the end
of the line that has been drawn at an angle (C).
3) Draw lines parallel to B-C that intersect the division points along
A-C. These lines will equally divide A-B
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:F%[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Ahhh the voice of experience!
>
> Naw, just to many years on the design board slinging lead.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
LOL, well I was going to add mechanical drawing whether on paper or on the
computer. CAD spells this out in a hurry and is easy to fix. Doing it on
a drawing board, you try not to make that mistake a second time.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>> How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
>
> Fold it in half and crease the fold. When you straighten it out again, the
> crease will be at the midpoint.
Half would make 2 pieces?
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> I think we're getting lost in the words.
Probably so!
> Since a picture is worth a thousand of them, I made a diagram explaining
> how that accordion pantograph thingy would work easily.
>
> I have two blue blocks spaced apart. I have six yellow blocks I want to
> space evenly between the blue blocks.
> I spread out the divider tool and put each end into the blue block a
> distance equal to half the width of a yellow block.
> This gives me centerlines for the yellow blocks that result in even
> spacing.
>
> http://www.mikedrums.com/dividers.png
I believe you have it. IMHO it would be easier to simply "so the math" and
cut a spacer to the required space width.
"Leon" wrote:
> LOL, well I was going to add mechanical drawing whether on paper or
> on the computer. CAD spells this out in a hurry and is easy to
> fix. Doing it on a drawing board, you try not to make that mistake
> a second time.
That's why all my layouts were done lightly with 6H lead and an
electric eraser at my side.
Lew
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>
> The device looks like this thing:
> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
"points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
The divider does not take into consideration the width of the
objects/balusters.
Somebody wrote:
> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing
> between "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you
> will have narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last
> baluster.
The first and last baluster space will be in error by 1/2 ballluster
thickness if you attempt to layout centerlines.
Lew
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
> ...
>> He details that he wants equal spacing between dividing objects.
>> If he wants equal spacing between drawers and or balusters you have to
>> take into consideration the total width of all of the objects that will
>> divide.
>
>
> But if you measure from the inside of the corner posts, equal centerlines
> does the same thing w/o the extra measurements. You do, of course, have
> to count the proper number of spaces or objects, yes.
>
> --
No, dividing the "between the posts" area does not result in objects with
equal spacing on both sides.
Draw it on paper and see what you get. The outer spaces will be narrower.
If the objects had no width your method would work.
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
>>> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>>>
>>> The device looks like this thing:
>>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>>
>>
>> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
>> "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
>> narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
>>
>> The divider does not take into consideration the width of the
>> objects/balusters.
>
> It would be very easy to adjust the starting and stopping points.
>
> You would hold each end further apart, at a spot equal to half a baluster.
But you left that out, he wanted to center objects in a given width.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> mark wrote:
>> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
>
> Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
> spacings you choose. If you choose the intermediate-fixed-point method
> the only requirement is to make the number of intermediates chosen an even
> divisor of the total number of increments wanted so those points are at
> the proper position. Then if they're off by <1/32" which is pretty easy
> to hit, that minor amount when split over the distance is indetectible.
>
> --
I believe with your method you will end up with narrower distances on left
and right side outer spaces. You have to subtract the combined width of
all balusters from the total opening and divide that result by the number of
desired spaces or the number of balusters + 1.
In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>....
>> He details that he wants equal spacing between dividing objects.
>> If he wants equal spacing between drawers and or balusters you have to take
>> into consideration the total width of all of the objects that will divide.
>
>
>But if you measure from the inside of the corner posts, equal
>centerlines does the same thing w/o the extra measurements.
For balusters (which presumably are of a uniform width), yes. For drawers in a
case, which frequently are different heights, no.
On Apr 20, 1:04=A0pm, mark <[email protected]> wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
http://www.virginiarailingandgates.com/calculations_picketspace.asp
R
On Apr 20, 2:33=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> mark wrote:
> > I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> > divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> > putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> > face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
>
> For the small distances, dividers set to approximate measurement w/
> refinement will nail the distance in only a couple of tries.
>
> For longer measurements like several feet run on railings, I typically
> will do the same methodology but fix a midpoint or two and do the actual
> division between them. =A0There's no hope of anybody picking out being of=
f
> by a hair on the distance between the middle baluster and each end in a
> 10-ft run that way, for example.
>
> --
That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
On Apr 20, 7:07=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 7:01=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:04:56 -0700, mark wrote:
> > > I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you div=
ide
> > > a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance putting
> > > ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4 face fr=
ame
> > > dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
>
> > Measure the distance. =A0Subtract the total width of the balusters. =A0=
Divide
> > by the # of balusters + 1. =A0Cut a spacer from scrap to that width.
>
> > That's how I did my porch.
>
> > --
> > Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
>
> Works for me, Larry.
This is also where metric shines..... and pretty much the only time I
use metric.
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:27:45 -0500, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:02:53 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>wrote:
>
>>Put your balusters together, measure (Call this "A"). Then measure the
>>total distance the balusters go in (Call this "B"). B minus A = "C" &
>>divide "C" by the number of spaces (probably one more than the number
>>of balusters). Ta da!!!
>
>Remember that dimension, call it "D", is the width of the opening
>between the balusters, not the distance between centerlines. Call the
>width of the baluster "W".
>
>From the edge of the opening measure D. From that point measure W.
>Those points mark the edges of the baluster. Then repeat the
>measurements D & W from the edge of each baluster until you've marked
>all the baluster locations.
>
>OR: mark the edge of the first baluster with the dimension "D", then
>repeat from that point with the dimension D+W. That locates only one
>edge of each baluster, but that's all that's really needed.
>
>OR, and the way I do it is: Cut a couple of spacers with length D and
>use them to locate top and bottom of each baluster from the edge of
>the opening or from the last baluster installed. Tolerance stackup can
>cause perceptible mislocation of the last few balusters installed.
>Especially if you work from one end toward the other. Instead, I'll
>locate the center baluster(s) and work toward each end from there. If
>there are an odd number of balusters, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc. the centerline
>of the center baluster will be at the midpoint of the opening. If
>there are an even number of balusters, the center of a space between
>balusters will be at the midpoint of the opening. Position and install
>the center baluster(s) and work from there with the spacer. That cuts
>the tolerance buildup and baluster mislocation in half.
>
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS
>USA
...sticks are great! If I'm following myself (and who doesn't like
that?!) I'll use sticks to layout *and* position the posts. If I have
this luxury, then it follows to use said longer sticks as layout
markers for the balusters, then, using the aformentioned smaller
sticks for nailing/screwing helpers becomes really simple...plus
you'll always know where you stand as far as creep goes, there
shouldn't much! If the bay sizes vary, choices have to be made...the
main choice is 'do you want to vary the spaces between balusters from
bay to bay, or keep those spaces the same for the entire job?' Here,
I usually opt for door #2 and keep those spaces the same; letting the
end measurements vary *evenly* side-to-side. This allows me to keep
using the same longer sticks as layout guides, indexing from center
points.
cg
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:23:24 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>No, dividing the "between the posts" area does not result in objects with
>equal spacing on both sides.
>
>Draw it on paper and see what you get. The outer spaces will be narrower.
>
>If the objects had no width your method would work.
Correct!
To calculate the distance between centerlines, the width of one
baluster has to be added to the width of the opening before
calculating the spacing. Then, the distance from the edge of the
opening to the centerline of the first baluster is the calculated
centerline spacing minus 1/2 the width of the baluster. That first
measurement is not from centerline to centerline but from edge of
opening to centerline.
Example: 9 1" wide balusters in a 39" opening.
Number of equal spaces = number of balusters + 1 = 10 equal spaces
Distance between the centerline of two adjacent balusters = width of
opening + width of one baluster divided by number of equal spaces
= (39 + 1) / 10 = 40/10 = 4"
Open space between adjacent balusters = distance between centerlines -
width of baluster = 4 - 1 = 3
Distance from edge of opening to centerline of first baluster =
distance between balusters - 1/2 width of baluster = 4 - 1/2 = 3 1/2.
That results in 9 balusters with 4" between centerlines and 3"
openings between balusters and 3" between the end balusters and the
edge of the opening.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:02:53 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
wrote:
>Put your balusters together, measure (Call this "A"). Then measure the
>total distance the balusters go in (Call this "B"). B minus A = "C" &
>divide "C" by the number of spaces (probably one more than the number
>of balusters). Ta da!!!
Remember that dimension, call it "D", is the width of the opening
between the balusters, not the distance between centerlines. Call the
width of the baluster "W".
From the edge of the opening measure D. From that point measure W.
Those points mark the edges of the baluster. Then repeat the
measurements D & W from the edge of each baluster until you've marked
all the baluster locations.
OR: mark the edge of the first baluster with the dimension "D", then
repeat from that point with the dimension D+W. That locates only one
edge of each baluster, but that's all that's really needed.
OR, and the way I do it is: Cut a couple of spacers with length D and
use them to locate top and bottom of each baluster from the edge of
the opening or from the last baluster installed. Tolerance stackup can
cause perceptible mislocation of the last few balusters installed.
Especially if you work from one end toward the other. Instead, I'll
locate the center baluster(s) and work toward each end from there. If
there are an odd number of balusters, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc. the centerline
of the center baluster will be at the midpoint of the opening. If
there are an even number of balusters, the center of a space between
balusters will be at the midpoint of the opening. Position and install
the center baluster(s) and work from there with the spacer. That cuts
the tolerance buildup and baluster mislocation in half.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Apr 21, 3:57=A0am, Charlie Groh <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:51:59 -0500, "Leon"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> I think we're getting lost in the words.
>
> >Probably so!
>
> >> Since a picture is worth a thousand of them, I made a diagram explaini=
ng
> >> how that accordion pantograph thingy would work easily.
>
> >> I have two blue blocks spaced apart. I have six yellow blocks I want t=
o
> >> space evenly between the blue blocks.
> >> I spread out the divider tool and put each end into the blue block a
> >> distance equal to half the width of a yellow block.
> >> This gives me centerlines for the yellow blocks that result in even
> >> spacing.
>
> >>http://www.mikedrums.com/dividers.png
>
> >I believe you have it. =A0IMHO it would be easier to simply "so the math=
" and
> >cut a spacer to the required space width.
>
> ...right, cut a stick. =A0Sticks rule...pardon the intentional pun.
>
> cg
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I found the problem with using a spacer stick is that if it is off by
a tiny amount the errors accumulate. 1/32" error X 16 baluster and you
are off by 1/2" at the end. It helps by starting at the midpoint and
working both way, that way you would only have 1/4" at either end and
your eye is less likely to pick it up. As for marking the centers for
baluster, could you not simply extend the tape beyond the starting
point by 1/2 the baluster width and the same for the end.
On Apr 20, 6:11=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> mark wrote:
> > I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> > divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> > putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> > face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
>
> This is a spreadsheet I devised a few years ago to keep from having to
> rebuild the wheel every time I layout spindles/slats between legs,
> rails, posts, etc when doing A&C/Mission furniture:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatCalculation.xls
>
> CAVEAT: It has been posted a few times in the past five years and
> manages to start an argument every time. It works _perfectly_ for me and
> others who have used it for the purpose for which it was intended.
> NOTE:I have no intention engaging in argument of any type regarding the
> formula, if it doesn't work for someone, they can either roll their own
> by tweaking the formula for their specific purpose, or kiss my ass,
> whichever suits the time and place...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
At least it wasn't done in SU, so it should work.....<g,d&r>
On Apr 20, 10:04=A0am, mark <[email protected]> wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
Put your balusters together, measure (Call this "A"). Then measure the
total distance the balusters go in (Call this "B"). B minus A =3D "C" &
divide "C" by the number of spaces (probably one more than the number
of balusters). Ta da!!!
mark wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
For the small distances, dividers set to approximate measurement w/
refinement will nail the distance in only a couple of tries.
For longer measurements like several feet run on railings, I typically
will do the same methodology but fix a midpoint or two and do the actual
division between them. There's no hope of anybody picking out being off
by a hair on the distance between the middle baluster and each end in a
10-ft run that way, for example.
--
mark wrote:
> On Apr 20, 2:33 pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> mark wrote:
>>> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
>>> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
>>> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
>>> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
>> For the small distances, dividers set to approximate measurement w/
>> refinement will nail the distance in only a couple of tries.
>>
>> For longer measurements like several feet run on railings, I typically
>> will do the same methodology but fix a midpoint or two and do the actual
>> division between them. There's no hope of anybody picking out being off
>> by a hair on the distance between the middle baluster and each end in a
>> 10-ft run that way, for example.
>>
>> --
>
> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
spacings you choose. If you choose the intermediate-fixed-point method
the only requirement is to make the number of intermediates chosen an
even divisor of the total number of increments wanted so those points
are at the proper position. Then if they're off by <1/32" which is
pretty easy to hit, that minor amount when split over the distance is
indetectible.
--
I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
The device looks like this thing:
<http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Morris Dovey wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
>> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>>
>> The device looks like this thing:
>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>
>
> I have one of these in my shop:
>
> http://www.m-powertools.com/products/point-2-point/point-2-point.htm
>
That's it! Thanks, Mo (can I call you, Mo?) :-)
Except, his was bigger and longer. [insert "that's what she said," here]
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Morris Dovey wrote:
>> The device looks like this thing:
>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>
> http://www.m-powertools.com/products/point-2-point/point-2-point.htm
>
BTW, what are these called?
The expanding "X" geometric concept?
I saw a name somewhere and can't think of it.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> mark wrote:
>
>>> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
>> Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
>> spacings you choose. If you choose the intermediate-fixed-point method
>> the only requirement is to make the number of intermediates chosen an even
>> divisor of the total number of increments wanted so those points are at
>> the proper position. Then if they're off by <1/32" which is pretty easy
>> to hit, that minor amount when split over the distance is indetectible.
>>
>> --
>
> I believe with your method you will end up with narrower distances on left
> and right side outer spaces. You have to subtract the combined width of
> all balusters from the total opening and divide that result by the number of
> desired spaces or the number of balusters + 1.
No, it ends up w/ equal centerlines which is what OP asked for.
--
Leon wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
>> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>>
>> The device looks like this thing:
>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>
>
> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
> "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
> narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
>
> The divider does not take into consideration the width of the
> objects/balusters.
>
It would be very easy to adjust the starting and stopping points.
You would hold each end further apart, at a spot equal to half a baluster.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
>>>> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>>>>
>>>> The device looks like this thing:
>>>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>>>
>>> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
>>> "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
>>> narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
>>>
>>> The divider does not take into consideration the width of the
>>> objects/balusters.
>> It would be very easy to adjust the starting and stopping points.
>>
>> You would hold each end further apart, at a spot equal to half a baluster.
>
> But you left that out, he wanted to center objects in a given width.
>
I didn't realize he wanted someone to come over and do it for him. :-)
I though something like that pantograph (that's the word I was looking
for) devise would take the math out of the process.
Don't you agree that anyone with a moderate amount of experience could
use it to do similar tasks to what the OP was asking?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
...
> He details that he wants equal spacing between dividing objects.
> If he wants equal spacing between drawers and or balusters you have to take
> into consideration the total width of all of the objects that will divide.
But if you measure from the inside of the corner posts, equal
centerlines does the same thing w/o the extra measurements. You do, of
course, have to count the proper number of spaces or objects, yes.
--
notbob wrote:
>> http://www.m-powertools.com/products/point-2-point/point-2-point.htm
>
> Cool tool! But, it's just as easy and costs nothing to use an old drafting
> trick. Get a measuring device, scale, yardstick, tape, etc. Find x number
> of equal units of measure, inch, foot, centimeter, etc, and count off the
> number of divisions you need. The total number of units of measure must
> exceed the right angle distance of the space you are dividing.
>
> For example, let say you want to divide 10" wide distance into 12 equal
> measurments. Easy. Take a 12" ruler and lay it from one side of the 10"
> distance to the other side AT AN ANGLE so the 12" distance lays across the
> 10" without extending beyond being short of the 10" right angle distance.
> Mark off the 12 one inch increments at one point and do it again at another
> point. Connect the marks with a straight edge. Voila! A 10" board, tile,
> whatever, divided into 12 equal lines.
>
> nb
Yes, old school.
I remember learning that in drafting school and hadn't thought of it
until now.
Thanks!
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
>> I didn't realize he wanted someone to come over and do it for him. :-)
>>
>> I though something like that pantograph (that's the word I was looking
>> for) devise would take the math out of the process.
>>
>> Don't you agree that anyone with a moderate amount of experience could
>> use it to do similar tasks to what the OP was asking?
>
>
> No, I do not agree. sorry, I have run across this time and time again
> using drawing programs where you can tell the CAD program to equally divide
> a line and then center dividers with width greater than "zero" on those
> points. You get unequal spacing on the outer spaces.
>
> I find the easiest way is to multiply the number of dividers by their width
> and subtract that amount from the given area that they should be equally
> space in. then divide that number by the number of dividers +1.
>
> And moving the outer points 1/2' the width of the spacer exaggerates the
> error.
>
I think we're getting lost in the words.
Since a picture is worth a thousand of them, I made a diagram explaining
how that accordion pantograph thingy would work easily.
I have two blue blocks spaced apart. I have six yellow blocks I want to
space evenly between the blue blocks.
I spread out the divider tool and put each end into the blue block a
distance equal to half the width of a yellow block.
This gives me centerlines for the yellow blocks that result in even spacing.
http://www.mikedrums.com/dividers.png
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
>>
>> http://www.mikedrums.com/dividers.png
>
>
> I believe you have it. IMHO it would be easier to simply "so the math" and
> cut a spacer to the required space width.
>
Yeah. I think it has a lot to do with being right or left brained.
They say you're one or the other, but I find I go back and forth
depending on what I'm doing.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
mark wrote:
> I must be making this more dificult than it really is. How do you
> divide a distance so it will have equally spacing. For instance
> putting ballusters between 2 post on a deck railing or putting 3 or 4
> face frame dividers between drawers. Thanks for any help
This is a spreadsheet I devised a few years ago to keep from having to
rebuild the wheel every time I layout spindles/slats between legs,
rails, posts, etc when doing A&C/Mission furniture:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatCalculation.xls
CAVEAT: It has been posted a few times in the past five years and
manages to start an argument every time. It works _perfectly_ for me and
others who have used it for the purpose for which it was intended.
NOTE:I have no intention engaging in argument of any type regarding the
formula, if it doesn't work for someone, they can either roll their own
by tweaking the formula for their specific purpose, or kiss my ass,
whichever suits the time and place...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
dpb wrote:
> mark wrote:
>> On Apr 20, 2:33 pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> mark wrote:
>>> For the small distances, dividers set to approximate measurement w/
>>> refinement will nail the distance in only a couple of tries.
>> That method won't give you the right spacing at each end will it?
> Of course -- it gives you the same measurement at however many number of
> spacings you choose.
This method gives equal center-to-center distances. If your
ballusters/dividers are not equal width, this method will give unequal
spaces between the edges.
Chris
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:01:46 -0500, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Measure the distance. Subtract the total width of the balusters. Divide
>by the # of balusters + 1. Cut a spacer from scrap to that width.
>
>That's how I did my porch.
As I did the railings around my deck, and ...
I think the confusion is coming in because someone brought centerlines
into the discussion. You can do it with centerlines, you just have to
account for the fact that the measurement to the first centerline from
the edge of the opening is NOT a centerline to centerline measurement.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:14:30 -0500, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
>Really simple - One decision (width of baluster spacing, D), two
>measurements (width of bay, B, and width of baluster, W), and one
>simple calculation and the entire bay of balusters is fully defined.
Sample:
We have a bay 6' 4" long that we want to fill with 1 3/8" balusters
with 3 1/2" open space between balusters.
D = 3.5"
B = 6' 4" = 76"
W = 1.375"
N = (B-D)/(W+D) = (76-3.5)/(1.375+3.5) = 14.871
Rounding N up to the next whole number, N =15
Since the number of balusters, 15, is odd, the centerline of the
center baluster is centered on the bay (38" from either end), the
clear space between each baluster is 3 1/2", and the clear space
between the end balusters and the end of the bay is 3 3/16".
Calculating the end spacing, 3 3/16", isn't necessary and is left as
an exercise for the reader, if so inclined.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
On 2009-04-20, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have one of these in my shop:
>
> http://www.m-powertools.com/products/point-2-point/point-2-point.htm
Cool tool! But, it's just as easy and costs nothing to use an old drafting
trick. Get a measuring device, scale, yardstick, tape, etc. Find x number
of equal units of measure, inch, foot, centimeter, etc, and count off the
number of divisions you need. The total number of units of measure must
exceed the right angle distance of the space you are dividing.
For example, let say you want to divide 10" wide distance into 12 equal
measurments. Easy. Take a 12" ruler and lay it from one side of the 10"
distance to the other side AT AN ANGLE so the 12" distance lays across the
10" without extending beyond being short of the 10" right angle distance.
Mark off the 12 one inch increments at one point and do it again at another
point. Connect the marks with a straight edge. Voila! A 10" board, tile,
whatever, divided into 12 equal lines.
nb
"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eb585264-922f-46ff-96d2-1c78589f60c4@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
I found the problem with using a spacer stick is that if it is off by
a tiny amount the errors accumulate. 1/32" error X 16 baluster and you
are off by 1/2" at the end. It helps by starting at the midpoint and
working both way, that way you would only have 1/4" at either end and
your eye is less likely to pick it up. As for marking the centers for
baluster, could you not simply extend the tape beyond the starting
point by 1/2 the baluster width and the same for the end.
That is a good tip!
How in the world do you determine the midpoint?
;~)
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I don't know what it's called, but I saw a dude using an expanding
>>> X frame (accordion style) to mark out equal spacings.
>>>
>>> The device looks like this thing:
>>> <http://common.csnstores.com/Gatco-Accordion-Wall-Mirror-in-Chrome~img~GAT~GAT1158_l.jpg>
>>
>>
>> BUT what you are talking about will only provide equal spacing between
>> "points". If you mount your balusters at those points you will have
>> narrower spaces on the out sides of the first and last baluster.
>>
>> The divider does not take into consideration the width of the
>> objects/balusters.
>
> It would be very easy to adjust the starting and stopping points.
>
> You would hold each end further apart, at a spot equal to half a baluster.
Well actually that is incorrect also. if I understand what you are saying.
Given a 40" wide area that you want to divide with 2" wide spacers so that
you have 3 equal length spaces between the spacer, if you divide 40" by 3
you end up with equally divided points every 13.34 inches. If you center
the dividers on the 2 equally spaced marks and then move the spacers
further apart half their width or 1", as I believe you are indicating, the
outer spaces end up being narrower than the center. In this example 2"
narrower.