I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
What size stainless screw and length?
What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
quoted?
Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
Rick
Did that a few years ago.
I made the plugs (over 1500 !!@@##!) with at veritas tapered plug
cutter. The one with three
"tines" that do the cutting. I have a drill press so this went fairly
quickly. I then set up a band saw jig
to cut off the plugs. This was not that bad a process and was most
likely a lot cheaper than the
price you were quoted since the plugs are made from scrap and cutoffs.
I used 5/4 mahogany with 3'' screws. I made a simple jig to align the
drill holes so that they were
uniformly spaced and so the bore was square to the deck surface. I
used a combo counter bore and
drill bit to do the holes. I went through three of these.
After counter boring and setting all the screws I started the plugging
process. I used polyurethane
glue. I would just dip the end of the plugs into the glue, set them
into the hole and drive them down
with a hammer. Once the glue cured, I cut off the proud ends of the
plugs with an offset saw and
sanded smooth with an RAS.
This is the third summer since I completed the work, and the plugs still
look great. I have a friend
who did the screw from below thing. He likes his but commented on how
the plugs give it a neat
look.
One thing that I did do was to plan the deck board layout so that I knew
where the board ends would
butt. You will need to screw the ends of both boards at that location.
To make that process easier I
sistered an additional joist at those locations. I felt that that was
well worth the effort.
Good luck!
Rick C wrote:
> I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
>interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> What size stainless screw and length?
> What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
> Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
>quoted?
> Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Sistering joists - my deck has doubled joists separated by 1/2" treated ply
at the 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 28, and 32 foot points. Ipe is sold in 2 foot
increments from 8 to 22 feet, so this worked well, and allowed the butt joints
(actually not butted - went with 1/8" separation) to drain water.
Ray Mandeville wrote:
> Did that a few years ago.
>
> I made the plugs (over 1500 !!@@##!) with at veritas tapered plug
> cutter. The one with three
> "tines" that do the cutting. I have a drill press so this went fairly
> quickly. I then set up a band saw jig
> to cut off the plugs. This was not that bad a process and was most
> likely a lot cheaper than the
> price you were quoted since the plugs are made from scrap and cutoffs.
>
> I used 5/4 mahogany with 3'' screws. I made a simple jig to align the
> drill holes so that they were
> uniformly spaced and so the bore was square to the deck surface. I
> used a combo counter bore and
> drill bit to do the holes. I went through three of these.
>
> After counter boring and setting all the screws I started the plugging
> process. I used polyurethane
> glue. I would just dip the end of the plugs into the glue, set them
> into the hole and drive them down
> with a hammer. Once the glue cured, I cut off the proud ends of the
> plugs with an offset saw and
> sanded smooth with an RAS.
>
> This is the third summer since I completed the work, and the plugs still
> look great. I have a friend
> who did the screw from below thing. He likes his but commented on how
> the plugs give it a neat
> look.
>
> One thing that I did do was to plan the deck board layout so that I knew
> where the board ends would
> butt. You will need to screw the ends of both boards at that location.
> To make that process easier I
> sistered an additional joist at those locations. I felt that that was
> well worth the effort.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Rick C wrote:
>
> > I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
> >interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> > I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> > What size stainless screw and length?
> > What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> > What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> > How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
> > Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> > Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
> >quoted?
> > Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Been there - works fine, but def more expensive - about double screws and
plugs.
Hensonator wrote:
> "Rick C" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging.
> > I am
> > interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> > I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> > What size stainless screw and length?
> > What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> > What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> > How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be
> > countersunk? Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> > Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
> > quoted?
> > Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> A lot of folks who install IPE use plastic clips that sit in a slot on the
> side of the wood. I'm not sure how the cost compares to plugs, and you
> have to slot for each clip (using a biscuit cutter or router). It should
> also allow for a bit more expansion than screws, which is good. Here's an
> example of one:
> http://woodbymail.com/ipe.html
> -Matt
Also look at Ipe Clip, EB-TY's competition. Differences are minor, and some Ipe
suppliers sell both systems. If you decide to do screws/plugs, McF's also
carries a good SS trim head screw for the purpose - similar to that provided in
the EB-TY kit..
Jim Ray wrote:
> Rick:
>
> If I were installing IPE decking, I would use the Eb-Ty fastener system. It
> is slower than simply screwing the decking down, but you need to pre-drill
> IPE anyway, so there probably isn't too much of a time penalty involved.
> Eb-Ty installs from the top, which is a very nice feature. The fasteners are
> basically little football shaped disks with a stem on the underside. To
> install them, you cut a slot in the IPE with a biscuit cutter, then use a
> stainless tseel screw to fasten the ebty in place, and lock it to the deck
> board. The Eb-Ty forms a type of tongue and groove connection with the
> decking. The nice thing about Eb-Ty is that it installs from the top,
> requires plugs on just the first starter board, and the fasteners are
> virtually invisible (you can see them if you look between the boards where
> the decking crosses a joist.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure, McFeely's sells Eb-Ty.
>
> Please call us if you need further info, and ask for tech support
> (1-800-443-7937)
>
> Jim Ray, President
> McFeely's Square Drive Screws
> www.mcfeelys.com
>
> "Rick C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I
> am
> > interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> > I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> > What size stainless screw and length?
> > What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> > What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> > How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
> > Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> > Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
> > quoted?
> > Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
Unless you plan on buying drill bits and plug cutters by the
"gross", I would suggest you look at "Deck Master" fastners.
Take a peek here: http://www.deckmaster.com/
I bought mine from: http://www.mcfeelys.com/
They are the "way to go" in your particular story....
Rick C wrote:
>
> I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
> interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
>
Mmm...not my experience. Bought 4 - 7/64" PC quick change TiN bits, and after
almost 600 sq ft of 5/4 Ipe, I've still got two left. Did not manage to wear them
out - both snapped due to side load courtesy of my less skilled laborers (the
little guys have to learn somehow). Same deal with forstner bit and countersinks
- touch them up every few hundred sf, and they should last the project.
As for plug cutters, I did roughly 200 plugs with an already pretty well used
Veritas Snug Plug cutter, and another few hundred after sharpening. If you can
sharpen a chisel, you can hone a plug cutter.
As to the Deckmaster strips, it's already a bear to control cam-out in SS
fasteners when the screw heads are in plain sight - not certain that it would be
much fun bottom fastening Ipe. Also - the Deckmasters show a shiny strip of metal
at each joist when new. This dulls over time; however, it is noticeable. For
about the same scratch, clips might be a better idea.
Pat Barber wrote:
> Unless you plan on buying drill bits and plug cutters by the
> "gross", I would suggest you look at "Deck Master" fastners.
>
> Take a peek here: http://www.deckmaster.com/
>
> I bought mine from: http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
> They are the "way to go" in your particular story....
>
> Rick C wrote:
> >
> > I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
> > interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> > I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> >
I cut roughly 500 in Ipe - no big deal. Did a hundred or so per night
(about what can be done in a 1 ft x 6" 5/4 offcut - about 30 minutes to mill
and 30 to snap out) after loosing the light for outside work. Mahogany is
softer, but also tends to tear out more if there is any wobble in the
stock. A sharp cutter does the work with very minimal pressure, so it's not
like using a mortiser (no increase in pressure).
Touched up the cutter twice (once at about the 200 mark and once again after
finishing off what I thought I needed (plenty of left-overs as it turns
out). The trick is to cut at the lowest speed, and to avoid any side load.
Also avoid overlapping holes.
Don't bother with the precut plugs if you are using polyurethane - the foam
will force them out - use plugs cut with tapered plug cutters. I also
graded plugs by color to get a better match; however, in retrospect, this
was overkill.
Leon wrote:
> "Ray Mandeville" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Did that a few years ago.
> >
> > I made the plugs (over 1500 !!@@##!) with at veritas tapered plug
> > cutter. The one with three
> > "tines" that do the cutting. I have a drill press so this went fairly
> > quickly. I then set up a band saw jig
> > to cut off the plugs. This was not that bad a process and was most
> > likely a lot cheaper than the
> > price you were quoted since the plugs are made from scrap and cutoffs.
> >
> > I used 5/4 mahogany with 3'' screws. I made a simple jig to align the
> > drill holes so that they were
> > uniformly spaced and so the bore was square to the deck surface. I
> > used a combo counter bore and
> > drill bit to do the holes. I went through three of these.
>
> I would like to have seen you cut 1500 plugs out of Ipe. Ipe is 4 to 5
> times harder than African or Honduras Mahogany.
"Ray Mandeville" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Did that a few years ago.
>
> I made the plugs (over 1500 !!@@##!) with at veritas tapered plug
> cutter. The one with three
> "tines" that do the cutting. I have a drill press so this went fairly
> quickly. I then set up a band saw jig
> to cut off the plugs. This was not that bad a process and was most
> likely a lot cheaper than the
> price you were quoted since the plugs are made from scrap and cutoffs.
>
> I used 5/4 mahogany with 3'' screws. I made a simple jig to align the
> drill holes so that they were
> uniformly spaced and so the bore was square to the deck surface. I
> used a combo counter bore and
> drill bit to do the holes. I went through three of these.
I would like to have seen you cut 1500 plugs out of Ipe. Ipe is 4 to 5
times harder than African or Honduras Mahogany.
I put down a 5/4 IPE deck of about the same size 4 years ago. I used
IPE Clips instead of drilling and plugging the holes. IMO the extra
cost was a minor increase in the overall project cost.
Been happy with that method. It looks good, has held up well to Dallas
weather, and really wasn't hard to do at all. Probably faster than
drilling and plugging.
If you want them, I have 250+ IPE clips and screws left that are just
taking up space, so they're available cheap (i.e. free except for
shipping cost).
xleanone at airmail dot net
Regards.
Tom
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:27:22 -0700, "Rick C" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
>interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> What size stainless screw and length?
> What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
> Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
>quoted?
> Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> Rick
>
>
>
Rick:
If I were installing IPE decking, I would use the Eb-Ty fastener system. It
is slower than simply screwing the decking down, but you need to pre-drill
IPE anyway, so there probably isn't too much of a time penalty involved.
Eb-Ty installs from the top, which is a very nice feature. The fasteners are
basically little football shaped disks with a stem on the underside. To
install them, you cut a slot in the IPE with a biscuit cutter, then use a
stainless tseel screw to fasten the ebty in place, and lock it to the deck
board. The Eb-Ty forms a type of tongue and groove connection with the
decking. The nice thing about Eb-Ty is that it installs from the top,
requires plugs on just the first starter board, and the fasteners are
virtually invisible (you can see them if you look between the boards where
the decking crosses a joist.
In the interest of full disclosure, McFeely's sells Eb-Ty.
Please call us if you need further info, and ask for tech support
(1-800-443-7937)
Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com
"Rick C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I
am
> interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
> I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
> What size stainless screw and length?
> What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
> What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
> How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
> Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
> Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
> quoted?
> Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
> Rick
>
>
>
>
On 7/8/2012 11:42 AM, Tom wrote:
> I put down a 5/4 IPE deck of about the same size 4 years ago. I used
> IPE Clips instead of drilling and plugging the holes. IMO the extra
> cost was a minor increase in the overall project cost.
>
> Been happy with that method. It looks good, has held up well to Dallas
> weather, and really wasn't hard to do at all. Probably faster than
> drilling and plugging.
>
> If you want them, I have 250+ IPE clips and screws left that are just
> taking up space, so they're available cheap (i.e. free except for
> shipping cost).
>
> xleanone at airmail dot net
>
> Regards.
>
> Tom
>
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:27:22 -0700, "Rick C" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I am putting down 800 sq ft of 1x4 IPE and plan on screwing/plugging. I am
>> interested in getting specific advice/recommendations for doing this.
>> I am using pressure treated hem/fir joist.
>> What size stainless screw and length?
>> What type of drill bit (manufactor/type of metal) and size?
>> What to use for boring holes for plugs ?
>> How deep do you put screw below surface and should screw be countersunk?
>> Ever try making plugs yourself using cutter?
>> Anyone have a source for plugs cheapter than $.15 per plug that I was
>> quoted?
>> Thanks for any suggestions you have time to write.
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
I think I would use this.
http://www.kregtool.com/Deck-Jig-Prodview.html