On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 05:14:11 -0400, Rob H. wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> Rob
2075 is easy. It's a gauge.
Oh wait. You want to know what the gauge measures, don't you?
2073 looks as though it should be laid on its side and be part of a
large siren for air-raids or something. This is proabably way off the
mark.
--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com
You might be right, but:
Do you know the exact dimensions of the tool?
The scale might be just to divide the given volume and
point only to the volume, not to the weight of the charge.
Blackpowder was usually measured by volume.
I dont think so but it may be used for Shot measurement as well.
regards from .de
Walter
>>
> I'm curious. It appears that each mark on the gage ( 10 units ) would be
> about 0.3ml. The units would be about 0.03ml. If the units are grains,
> it seems as if the powder would have twice the specific gravity of
> water. What powder would be that heavy? Would the units be smaller than
> grains?
Have you ever loaded a .70-150 Winchester or a .600 Nitro Express ?
They take close to 100 grains of powder...... really impressive
>>
>
> I know only that the overall length is given as 7". From that, it
> appears that the diameter is 1/2", the width of the rod is .23", and the
> distance between marks is .33".
>
> If my linear measurements are off a little, my volume estimate would be
> off a lot.
>
> I like your idea that the rod simply divides a volume in increments of
> 10%. By my estimate, the maximum volume would be about 3ml. For some
> calibers, I imagine that would be a big charge of powder.
On Oct 28, 8:10=A0am, Ted Schuerzinger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 04:56:05 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67 wrote:
> > 2076- guess- child proof latch for windows
>
> In the Arizona desert?
>
> --
> Ted S.
> fedya at hughes dot net
> Now blogging athttp://justacineast.blogspot.com
What, there's no kids in the arizona desert?
Dave
On Oct 27, 11:14=A0pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
> someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Rob
2074.=A0I'll=A0say=A0ankle=A0shackle.
2075.=A0Powder=A0measure=A0and=A0funnel=A0for=A0guns.
Karl
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2072 (Guess) Claw used to help handle hay bales. The user's fingers would
wrap around the end between the metal spikes.
2076 (Guess) Pneumatic control valve. A pneumatic line would be attached to
the threaded hole. Pressing the button would momentarily prevent air from
entering or leaving the line, which would cause an actuator to open or
close. Possibly HVAC related.
-Carl G.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
>
> Got a picture of the other side of 2074? Or does that side have RR
> initials?
>
It may have, but Rob is great with Photo editing
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2071, is a flint gas stove lighter
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "J Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/28/10 5:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
>>> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
>>
>> 2076: In AZ, some hobbyist groups like to send up pickup-truck size
>> balloons with pods containing cameras, digital radio transmitters for
>> tracking, and other equipment. They may track it 60 miles before having
>> it drop the pod, which parachutes for the hobbyists to retrieve.
>>
>> How about another game where an inexpensive balloon is launched half a
>> mile downwind from dirt-bikers, who try to spot it, follow it visually,
>> and shoot it down with air rifles?
>>
>> They lose if it rises out of sight. They might fill it, tie it to a
>> fishing weight, put the weight on a sensitive scale, and release helium
>> until the scale shows a certain weight. Now if they remove the weight,
>> the balloon won't rise out of sight.
>>
>> They would want a light, cheap valve that would seal a helium balloon but
>> could be pressed to release a little at a time. 2076 might do the trick.
>>
>> Even if the hobbyists manage to shoot it down, they may be unable to find
>> the little bit of balloon rubber on the ground. The sun soon rots the
>> rubber, and all that's left are the cheap valves scattered across the
>> desert.
>
>
> You really ought to be writing fiction! Try working some aliens of the on
> or off planet variety into it ...
>
> ::)(
It would be better using a 50mm cannon with explosive shells
On Oct 28, 5:14=A0am, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
> someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Rob
2076- guess- child proof latch for windows
Dave
On 10/28/10 5:49 AM, Walter Kraft wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> 2075 A Powder measurement and dispencing device to reload
> cartridges, probably from the Blackpowder aera.
>
>
> regards
> Walter
>
>
I'm curious. It appears that each mark on the gage ( 10 units ) would
be about 0.3ml. The units would be about 0.03ml. If the units are
grains, it seems as if the powder would have twice the specific gravity
of water. What powder would be that heavy? Would the units be smaller
than grains?
"Ted Schuerzinger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 04:56:05 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67 wrote:
>
>> 2076- guess- child proof latch for windows
>
> In the Arizona desert?
As I mentioned on the web site, someone found about a dozen of these over
the years, scattered throughout the desert in Arizona, while walking their
dog. They were not found near roads or trails, some were discovered in
terrain where vehicles would have a hard time traveling. I've shown the
photos to some military people but no one recognized it.
Rob
On 10/28/10 6:31 AM, Walter Kraft wrote:
>
> You might be right, but:
>
> Do you know the exact dimensions of the tool?
> The scale might be just to divide the given volume and
> point only to the volume, not to the weight of the charge.
> Blackpowder was usually measured by volume.
>
> I dont think so but it may be used for Shot measurement as well.
>
>
> regards from .de
>
> Walter
>
>
I know only that the overall length is given as 7". From that, it
appears that the diameter is 1/2", the width of the rod is .23", and the
distance between marks is .33".
If my linear measurements are off a little, my volume estimate would be
off a lot.
I like your idea that the rod simply divides a volume in increments of
10%. By my estimate, the maximum volume would be about 3ml. For some
calibers, I imagine that would be a big charge of powder.
I've never reloaded. For black powder, 100 grains looks like 6ml, which
could be two full loads of Rob's device.
On 10/28/10 1:50 PM, Walter Kraft wrote:
> Have you ever loaded a .70-150 Winchester or a .600 Nitro Express ?
> They take close to 100 grains of powder...... really impressive
>>>
>>
>> I know only that the overall length is given as 7". From that, it
>> appears that the diameter is 1/2", the width of the rod is .23", and
>> the distance between marks is .33".
>>
>> If my linear measurements are off a little, my volume estimate would
>> be off a lot.
>>
>> I like your idea that the rod simply divides a volume in increments of
>> 10%. By my estimate, the maximum volume would be about 3ml. For some
>> calibers, I imagine that would be a big charge of powder.
On 10/28/10 5:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2076: In AZ, some hobbyist groups like to send up pickup-truck size
balloons with pods containing cameras, digital radio transmitters for
tracking, and other equipment. They may track it 60 miles before having
it drop the pod, which parachutes for the hobbyists to retrieve.
How about another game where an inexpensive balloon is launched half a
mile downwind from dirt-bikers, who try to spot it, follow it visually,
and shoot it down with air rifles?
They lose if it rises out of sight. They might fill it, tie it to a
fishing weight, put the weight on a sensitive scale, and release helium
until the scale shows a certain weight. Now if they remove the weight,
the balloon won't rise out of sight.
They would want a light, cheap valve that would seal a helium balloon
but could be pressed to release a little at a time. 2076 might do the
trick.
Even if the hobbyists manage to shoot it down, they may be unable to
find the little bit of balloon rubber on the ground. The sun soon rots
the rubber, and all that's left are the cheap valves scattered across
the desert.
"J Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/28/10 5:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
>> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
> 2076: In AZ, some hobbyist groups like to send up pickup-truck size
> balloons with pods containing cameras, digital radio transmitters for
> tracking, and other equipment. They may track it 60 miles before having
> it drop the pod, which parachutes for the hobbyists to retrieve.
>
> How about another game where an inexpensive balloon is launched half a
> mile downwind from dirt-bikers, who try to spot it, follow it visually,
> and shoot it down with air rifles?
>
> They lose if it rises out of sight. They might fill it, tie it to a
> fishing weight, put the weight on a sensitive scale, and release helium
> until the scale shows a certain weight. Now if they remove the weight,
> the balloon won't rise out of sight.
>
> They would want a light, cheap valve that would seal a helium balloon but
> could be pressed to release a little at a time. 2076 might do the trick.
>
> Even if the hobbyists manage to shoot it down, they may be unable to find
> the little bit of balloon rubber on the ground. The sun soon rots the
> rubber, and all that's left are the cheap valves scattered across the
> desert.
You really ought to be writing fiction! Try working some aliens of the on or
off planet variety into it ...
::)(
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
Got a picture of the other side of 2074? Or does that side have RR initials?
--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...
On 10/28/10 10:58 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "J Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/28/10 5:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
>>> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
>>
>> 2076: In AZ, some hobbyist groups like to send up pickup-truck size
>> balloons with pods containing cameras, digital radio transmitters for
>> tracking, and other equipment. They may track it 60 miles before
>> having it drop the pod, which parachutes for the hobbyists to retrieve.
>>
>> How about another game where an inexpensive balloon is launched half a
>> mile downwind from dirt-bikers, who try to spot it, follow it
>> visually, and shoot it down with air rifles?
>>
>> They lose if it rises out of sight. They might fill it, tie it to a
>> fishing weight, put the weight on a sensitive scale, and release
>> helium until the scale shows a certain weight. Now if they remove the
>> weight, the balloon won't rise out of sight.
>>
>> They would want a light, cheap valve that would seal a helium balloon
>> but could be pressed to release a little at a time. 2076 might do the
>> trick.
>>
>> Even if the hobbyists manage to shoot it down, they may be unable to
>> find the little bit of balloon rubber on the ground. The sun soon rots
>> the rubber, and all that's left are the cheap valves scattered across
>> the desert.
>
>
> You really ought to be writing fiction! Try working some aliens of the
> on or off planet variety into it ...
>
> ::)(
>
Balloon chasing is a sport, at least in New Mexico.
http://www.chasetheballoons.com/
In this case, groups of bicyclists use highways to chase piloted
balloons up to 100km. Using a child's balloon would be more practical
and more challenging. With no pilot to regulate altitude, helium would
have to be bled to get the right buoyancy before release.
Several kinds of valves are made for children's latex helium balloons.
http://www.balloonplace.com/catalog/clips.html
http://www.signatureballoons.co.uk/accessories/category-page.aspx?SS_ID=63
In Britain they say, "Valves should never be used for balloon releases
as they can harm the environment." This implies that if you released a
balloon with a plastic valve, the latex would soon rot away and only the
valve would remain.
2071 is a flash point tester. The trigger rolls a wheel over the end
of a flint.
2072 is part of a "boot jack" for taking off working boots.
2073 is laying on its side. It's part of a wind gage. Normally, these
are found at the top of a pole.
2074 is a set of handcuffs (the Canadians may call them "wristlets")
from about 1875.
2075 is a pharmacist tool. The pharmacist sets the "capacity" of the
tool, using the slide and sets the capacity with the screw, so it
doesn't change within the batch. The tube is filled with the medical
powder. The funnel allows the powder to be more easily poured into the
pill packing press.
2076 is a part of a "trip wire" mechanism. A string is placed over an
open area, connecting to a pin. The pin holds the plunger "down". When
a prowler or enemy agent trips the wire, the spring loaded plunger
activates a gas grenade, claymore, or other defensive device.
Incidentally, I have no knowledge about any of these devices. The
above text is pure unadulterated SWAG.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
hopefully
someone here will be able to give us the answer:
http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Rob
On 10/29/10 12:54 AM, George W Frost wrote:
> "Lobby Dosser"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "J Burns"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 10/28/10 5:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>>> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
>>>> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>>>
>>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>
>>> 2076: In AZ, some hobbyist groups like to send up pickup-truck size
>>> balloons with pods containing cameras, digital radio transmitters for
>>> tracking, and other equipment. They may track it 60 miles before having
>>> it drop the pod, which parachutes for the hobbyists to retrieve.
>>>
>>> How about another game where an inexpensive balloon is launched half a
>>> mile downwind from dirt-bikers, who try to spot it, follow it visually,
>>> and shoot it down with air rifles?
>>>
>>> They lose if it rises out of sight. They might fill it, tie it to a
>>> fishing weight, put the weight on a sensitive scale, and release helium
>>> until the scale shows a certain weight. Now if they remove the weight,
>>> the balloon won't rise out of sight.
>>>
>>> They would want a light, cheap valve that would seal a helium balloon but
>>> could be pressed to release a little at a time. 2076 might do the trick.
>>>
>>> Even if the hobbyists manage to shoot it down, they may be unable to find
>>> the little bit of balloon rubber on the ground. The sun soon rots the
>>> rubber, and all that's left are the cheap valves scattered across the
>>> desert.
>>
>>
>> You really ought to be writing fiction! Try working some aliens of the on
>> or off planet variety into it ...
>>
>> ::)(
>
>
> It would be better using a 50mm cannon with explosive shells
>
>
Okay, if I were chasing a helium balloon that initially floated 300 feet
high, I wouldn't bring an air rifle because it would soon come down by
itself as the gas seeped through the latex.
http://www.balloonhq.com/BalloonCouncil/facts.html
In sunlight, latex balloons show deterioration within hours. Even in
darkness, microbes and gases cause rapid decay. Whether or not the
mystery devices were manufactured for the purpose, the fact that they
were found scattered over the desert with no other man-made materials
leads me to believe they were used as valves to set the buoyancy of
small latex balloons.
When released to rise out if sight, latex balloons are simply knotted
for minimum weight and rapid biodegradability. A valve could be used so
a balloon would not rise out of sight. Even on a motorcycle in the
desert, one would probably lose sight of a small balloon due to
obstacles on the ground. One would note the balloon's drift and try to
intercept it.
To succeed would be to be present when the balloon got low enough to
grab. The devices found later would have come from balloons that were
not recaptured. If a dozen were found, it must be a favorite area for
somebody who enjoys chasing balloons.
Dang, I'm going to move to AZ and get me a bike and some balloons!
> 2073 is, i believe, a support for a run of piping that is subject to
> expansion/contraction. Can't find a picture at the moment, but I
> believe I've seen similar on some steam-pipe runs between buildings
> at the rail yards just south of Chicago Union Station.
>
> In other locations, sometimes pipe just rests on the like of a pulley
> sheave,
> (e.g., in underground inter-building tunnelling), sometimes its in a
> 'fully
> captive' fitting like this -- when there are possible significant side-
> forces as well.
Good guess, someone found this in a barn, turns out that it was part of an
old irrigation system. I'm not sure exactly how it was used but your
suggestion that it's a support sounds like it could be right.
All except the last one have been answered correctly this week:
http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/10/set-360.html#answers
Rob
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
>
> Got a picture of the other side of 2074? Or does that side have RR
> initials?
I don't have a photo of the other side and I didn't see any text on it, the
owner of it said it was from China.
Rob
My guess on 2076 is that it was part of some type of military device that
was tested in the desert many years ago. If that is the case then there may
just be a small number of people who ever used it, and the odds of getting
an answer for it are very low. But I've been really intrigued by this
device for the past week and hope we get it identified eventrually.
Rob
Five minutes after my previous post someone came up with the answer. A
miner from the area says that it's a connector that was used in seismic
testing, in which small explosions are created so that the seismic
reflection can be studied to understand the geometry of subsurface layers.
I included the link below on my answer, it explains seismic testing:
http://www.dmtcalaska.org/exploration/ISU/unit5/u5lesson2.html
It's good to get this one answered!
Rob
On 10/29/10 10:23 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>
> Five minutes after my previous post someone came up with the answer. A
> miner from the area says that it's a connector that was used in seismic
> testing, in which small explosions are created so that the seismic
> reflection can be studied to understand the geometry of subsurface
> layers. I included the link below on my answer, it explains seismic
> testing:
>
> http://www.dmtcalaska.org/exploration/ISU/unit5/u5lesson2.html
>
> It's good to get this one answered!
>
>
> Rob
Did he tell you what they connected and why they were left behind?
"J Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/29/10 10:23 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>>
>> Five minutes after my previous post someone came up with the answer. A
>> miner from the area says that it's a connector that was used in seismic
>> testing, in which small explosions are created so that the seismic
>> reflection can be studied to understand the geometry of subsurface
>> layers. I included the link below on my answer, it explains seismic
>> testing:
>>
>> http://www.dmtcalaska.org/exploration/ISU/unit5/u5lesson2.html
>>
>> It's good to get this one answered!
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
> Did he tell you what they connected and why they were left behind?
I'm waiting on further information on how it was connected, supposedly a
coaxial cable was screwed into the large hole and other wires went to the
pins. This sounded good to me when I first heard it but now I'm not sure
about it. It doesn't explain the plunger and the pins don't look like very
good connectors for wires. When I hear more I'll post it.
Rob
On 10/30/10 4:52 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>
> "J Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/29/10 10:23 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>>>
>>> Five minutes after my previous post someone came up with the answer. A
>>> miner from the area says that it's a connector that was used in seismic
>>> testing, in which small explosions are created so that the seismic
>>> reflection can be studied to understand the geometry of subsurface
>>> layers. I included the link below on my answer, it explains seismic
>>> testing:
>>>
>>> http://www.dmtcalaska.org/exploration/ISU/unit5/u5lesson2.html
>>>
>>> It's good to get this one answered!
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
>>
>> Did he tell you what they connected and why they were left behind?
>
>
> I'm waiting on further information on how it was connected, supposedly a
> coaxial cable was screwed into the large hole and other wires went to
> the pins. This sounded good to me when I first heard it but now I'm not
> sure about it. It doesn't explain the plunger and the pins don't look
> like very good connectors for wires. When I hear more I'll post it.
>
> Rob
I wonder where I could buy some for balloon chases. If it's about 15
grams, it would ballast a helium balloon about 30cm in diameter. At
1,000 yards, shooters without telescopic sights use 25cm targets, so a
30cm balloon should be visible for a long way.
The float time of a knotted 30cm balloon is 12-24 hours. Weighted to
rise only 1000 feet or so, I imagine it would be down in an hour or so.
So a chase wouldn't go on for hours like some baseball games.
I need to patent the idea! One of these days the internet fad will
fade. Then everybody's going to be chasing balloons with off-road
bicycles! :)
In article <[email protected]>,
Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
>someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
2073 is, i believe, a support for a run of piping that is subject to
expansion/contraction. Can't find a picture at the moment, but I
believe I've seen similar on some steam-pipe runs between buildings
at the rail yards just south of Chicago Union Station.
In other locations, sometimes pipe just rests on the like of a pulley sheave,
(e.g., in underground inter-building tunnelling), sometimes its in a 'fully
captive' fitting like this -- when there are possible significant side-
forces as well.
2071 - Part of a Florida Window arm
2072 - automated Ice Maker tray?
2072 - flow mode gold digging pan?
2073 -
2074 - lock / shackles for?
2075 - a device for measuring air flow?
2076 - found at a military base??
On 10/28/2010 05:14 AM, Rob H. wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set,
> hopefully someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
On 2010-10-28, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> A lot of people have been stumped by the last item in this set, hopefully
> someone here will be able to give us the answer:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Posting from Rec.crafts.metalworking as always:
2071) Hmm ... it does not look very strong -- made from light sheet
metal. At a guess, it is held like a gun, and when the trigger
is pulled, the platform tilts forward and down, dumping the
contents. (If it were not for the pivot being in the middle, I
would almost think that it was a cheap soap dish.)
2072) Nasty looking. Are the horns steel or iron? They look it and
slightly rusted.
If it were longer, I would consider it something which could be
stuck in the ground and used as a back rest.
The cover on the back appears to be brass or bronze, and secured
by several wood screws.
And the rounded edge looks uncomfortable, too. Perhaps for
cleaning clothes -- prior to the rubbing board's invention?
If I could see the other side, I could eliminate the
possibillity of a stringed instrument, with one end of the
strings anchored on the pins just barely visble at the rounded
end.
2073) If there is a hole in the narrow section, it would work as a
venturi. Perhaps for measuring (with other tools) the strenght
of a strong wind -- or water flow?
Or perhaps some kind of exhaust trumpet?
2074) Primitive -- and cheap -- handcuffs.
Full keyhole is probably visible on the other side of the lock.
2075) The second photo looks very much like the measuring end of a
tire pressure gauge. Perhaps used for measuring steam flow with
the aid of the trumpet/funnel?
2076) Some kind of tripwire detonator, requiring a pin through the
threaded hole?
Looks like a ceramic, not a plastic.
This is a difficult set this week.
Now to see what others have suggested.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---