LH

"Lew Hodgett"

24/06/2010 10:00 PM

RE: African Mahogany

RE: Subject

What total garbage.
---------------------------------
Decided to take a wood shop course at a local community college.

"Why", you ask?

"So I can play with all those neat toys the have", says I.

Toys with brand names like "Oliver" & "Northfield" to name just a
couple.

After several hours of significant safety training, was given a 4/4
piece of African Mahogany to square up for secondary machining.

First toy was a 12" jointer which was used to face joint the piece.

Talk about a beauty. When running, it was so quiet you really had to
listen to hear if it was running.

Noticed a few "tear outs" scattered across the face after the first
couple of passes, but nothing serious.

Next over to the planer where the "tear outs" continued to sprout like
chicken pox all over both surfaces as the piece was machined toward
3/4" thickness.

Finally stopped planing at 13/16" and headed to the drum sander where
3/4" thickness was obtained and the bulk of the "tear outs"
disappeared.

Finally back to a smaller jointer to establish a square edge, this
time without any "tear outs".

About half the class had the same problem as I did, the balance did
not.

Questioned the instructors about the problem.

Their answer was you couldn't tell if you were going to have this
"tear outs" problem until you started machining.

One of the instructors stated he won't use African Mahogany.

Now you know why I think African Mahogany is total garbage.

BTW, it also has a much more open grain structure than Honduras
Mahogany.

The price differential between African and Honduras Mahogany also
reflects the difference in quality.

Off the box.

Lew



This topic has 15 replies

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 2:48 PM

> My experience has been such that I seldom find a board, particularly
> longer than a meter or so, that has the same grain direction for the
> entire length of the board. =A0 Flat sawn is the worst.
>
> scott

Agreed. With Mahog however you can get boards that will be more
consistent. Regardless, one should take it into account and at least
try so I was just wondering if any thought had been given to it.

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 2:17 PM


"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:

> Honestly, African Mahog is beautiful. Difficult maybe; but to call
> it
> garbage?
----------------------------
Compared to Honduras Mahogany, African Mahogany is pure garbage IMHO.

YMMV.

Lew

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 2:21 PM


"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:

> Not questioning your knowledge but you didn't mention if you took
> care
> to joint and plane with or against the grain.
--------------------------------------
Didn't make any difference which end you fed in first, the problem
just didn't go away.

Lew

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 5:29 PM


"Andy Dingley" wrote:

> As you point out, the surface is a pain to work without tearout. The
> usual fix is a big drum sander, not a thicknesser.
------------------
As noted this was the solution.
------------------------------


Sharp knives and
> pre-wetting the surface help though, and I can usually plane it
> nicely
> on my lightweight machine, just needing a pass from Steve Knight to
> finish it. Takes a while though - you can't just throw it into the
> machine, like a bit of oak.
----------------------
As an old machine tool guy, I'm strictly a Normite.

Not big on hand tools.
--------------------------
> It will take a good finish, but tends to look either dull and
> boring,
> or else that '70s retro Sapele striped chattoyance figure. Usually
> sanding it works, then using some of this sanding dust as a pore
> filler.
----------------------------
I'm sure hand sanding is part of the course so will just have to wait
and see what happens.

Thanks for the tips.

Lew

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

26/06/2010 3:53 AM


"Andy Dingley" wrote:

> OTOH, compared to Honduran, African is affordable and available.
--------------------------
Having worked with teak (Plantation grown), Honduran doesn't bring on
"sticker shock".

Lew


AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 4:22 AM

On 25 June, 06:00, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Now you know why I think African Mahogany is total garbage.
>
> BTW, it also has a much more open grain structure than Honduras
> Mahogany.

Welcome to the UK.

Throughout the 20th century, we had far more timber trade with the
west coast of Africa than with the Caribbean, so "African
mahogany" (maybe khaya, but there are many of these things) is very
common around here, but you'll rarely see central American unless it's
18th century. Most of my African mahogany is actually recyclings from
1930s-1950s furniture - I don't buy new rainforest timbers. Drawer
carcases from a chest of drawers will provide a dozen useful boards of
this, all ready thicknessed.

As you point out, the surface is a pain to work without tearout. The
usual fix is a big drum sander, not a thicknesser. Sharp knives and
pre-wetting the surface help though, and I can usually plane it nicely
on my lightweight machine, just needing a pass from Steve Knight to
finish it. Takes a while though - you can't just throw it into the
machine, like a bit of oak.

It will take a good finish, but tends to look either dull and boring,
or else that '70s retro Sapele striped chattoyance figure. Usually
sanding it works, then using some of this sanding dust as a pore
filler. Traditional recipes used brick dust. I've even made a
jewellery box (small-scale princess variety) where I filled it with
"pixie dust" - cosmetic skin glitter. This gave a bit of a magical
sparkle (tm) to the surface, which set off the unicorn-pelt lining and
unicorn horn fittings quite nicely.

AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

26/06/2010 3:15 AM

On 25 June, 17:44, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not questioning your knowledge but you didn't mention if you took care
> to joint and plane with or against the grain.

You can't! This stuff is a tropical, so the grain is spiral in
alternating bands. From looking at the surface of a board, it reverses
every inch or so crosswise.

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

26/06/2010 12:46 PM

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:16:44 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
> <[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>> On 25 June, 22:17, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Compared to Honduras Mahogany, African Mahogany is pure garbage
>>> IMHO.
>>
>> OTOH, compared to Honduran, African is affordable and available.
>
> On the gripping hand, African is neither attractive

Your opinion, not shared by moi :)

> nor workable.

Sure it is.

> On a realistic level, African doesn't compare to Honduran at all.

And Honduran doesn't compare to Cuban.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 7:57 PM

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> Noticed a few "tear outs" scattered across the face after the first
>> couple of passes, but nothing serious.
>>
>
>Not questioning your knowledge but you didn't mention if you took care
>to joint and plane with or against the grain. Was there any
>instruction and thought given to which direction the material was
>oriented? I do see one clue "about half the class" had the problem
>which using random selection would account for about half of the
>material fed in the wrong direction.


My experience has been such that I seldom find a board, particularly
longer than a meter or so, that has the same grain direction for the
entire length of the board. Flat sawn is the worst.

scott

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 9:46 AM

>
> One of the instructors stated he won't use African Mahogany.
>
> Now you know why I think African Mahogany is total garbage.
>

Honestly, African Mahog is beautiful. Difficult maybe; but to call it
garbage? Is Birdseye Maple garbage? Try to face joint that. Knowing
how to treat a material to get the desired result is part of the
art... IMNSHO.

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 9:44 AM

>
> Noticed a few "tear outs" scattered across the face after the first
> couple of passes, but nothing serious.
>

Not questioning your knowledge but you didn't mention if you took care
to joint and plane with or against the grain. Was there any
instruction and thought given to which direction the material was
oriented? I do see one clue "about half the class" had the problem
which using random selection would account for about half of the
material fed in the wrong direction.

AD

Andy Dingley

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

26/06/2010 3:16 AM

On 25 June, 22:17, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Compared to Honduras Mahogany, African Mahogany is pure garbage IMHO.

OTOH, compared to Honduran, African is affordable and available.

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 8:45 AM

On 6/25/2010 7:22 AM, Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 25 June, 06:00, "Lew Hodgett"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Now you know why I think African Mahogany is total garbage.
>>
>> BTW, it also has a much more open grain structure than Honduras
>> Mahogany.
>
> Welcome to the UK.
>
> Throughout the 20th century, we had far more timber trade with the
> west coast of Africa than with the Caribbean, so "African
> mahogany" (maybe khaya, but there are many of these things) is very
> common around here, but you'll rarely see central American unless it's
> 18th century. Most of my African mahogany is actually recyclings from
> 1930s-1950s furniture - I don't buy new rainforest timbers. Drawer
> carcases from a chest of drawers will provide a dozen useful boards of
> this, all ready thicknessed.
>
> As you point out, the surface is a pain to work without tearout. The
> usual fix is a big drum sander, not a thicknesser. Sharp knives and
> pre-wetting the surface help though, and I can usually plane it nicely
> on my lightweight machine, just needing a pass from Steve Knight to
> finish it. Takes a while though - you can't just throw it into the
> machine, like a bit of oak.
>
> It will take a good finish, but tends to look either dull and boring,
> or else that '70s retro Sapele striped chattoyance figure. Usually
> sanding it works, then using some of this sanding dust as a pore
> filler. Traditional recipes used brick dust. I've even made a
> jewellery box (small-scale princess variety) where I filled it with
> "pixie dust" - cosmetic skin glitter. This gave a bit of a magical
> sparkle (tm) to the surface, which set off the unicorn-pelt lining and
> unicorn horn fittings quite nicely.

Wait a minute. You killed a <gasp> _unicorn_ to make this thing? And
Small-Scale Princess didn't sentence you to Durance Vile?

ST

Steve Turner

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

25/06/2010 3:34 PM

On 6/25/2010 2:57 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com"<[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>> Noticed a few "tear outs" scattered across the face after the first
>>> couple of passes, but nothing serious.
>>>
>>
>> Not questioning your knowledge but you didn't mention if you took care
>> to joint and plane with or against the grain. Was there any
>> instruction and thought given to which direction the material was
>> oriented? I do see one clue "about half the class" had the problem
>> which using random selection would account for about half of the
>> material fed in the wrong direction.
>
>
> My experience has been such that I seldom find a board, particularly
> longer than a meter or so, that has the same grain direction for the
> entire length of the board. Flat sawn is the worst.
>
> scott

With African Mahogany, there can be so much interlocking grain that there
really IS no "against" or "with". It doesn't matter which direction you run it
through; you're going to get tearout.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 24/06/2010 10:00 PM

26/06/2010 6:20 AM

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:16:44 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote the following:

>On 25 June, 22:17, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Compared to Honduras Mahogany, African Mahogany is pure garbage IMHO.
>
>OTOH, compared to Honduran, African is affordable and available.

On the gripping hand, African is neither attractive nor workable.
On a realistic level, African doesn't compare to Honduran at all.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas
in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson


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