I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
anyway.
After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the
edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was
completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the
bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had
simply burned off at these locations.
Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to
force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.
The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious
signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where
the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar
rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and
the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky
chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to
keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than
wood during operation.
My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
Thanks,
JKG
Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> anyway.
>
> After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
> I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
> 346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
> that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
> requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
> tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
> began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
> wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
> the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
> and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
>
> I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the
> edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was
> completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the
> bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had
> simply burned off at these locations.
>
> Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to
> force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.
>
> The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious
> signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where
> the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar
> rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and
> the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky
> chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to
> keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than
> wood during operation.
>
>
> My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
> looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
> bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
> indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
> something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG
Smoking? And you didn't stop? yep, that is dumb, but you
know that.
The chain is unlikely damaged, you just sharpen it, and if
it dulls very rapidly you may have ruined the temper, but I
can't believe that would happen.
Lack of oil will screw up the bar. From your description,
it doesn't sound like it got hurt. You can tell by running
a finger very VERY carefully on top of the bar groove
(bottom of bar where the pressure is during cutting) and
along each side next to the groove. If you feel roughness
or metal slivers, you need to draw file it.
Draw filing is fairly simple, put the blade in a vice with
the edge you want to file up. Take a small fairly fine
flat,file; hold it crosswise to the blade edge and exactly
at right angles to the side (wide part), set it down on the
edge with a bit of pressure and pull it toward you.
Actually you can also push it even if it is called draw
filing. The main point is keep the file flat so the blade
is filed flat. You won't need to do much filing. Finish by
lightly filing the edge with the file surface essentially
parallel with the wide part of the blade to remove any fine
metal slivers. DO NOT round the edge. If you are really a
stickler, you could polish the edge by wrapping 400 grit
wet/dry sand paper around the file and running it back and
fort on the the blade in the same way you draw filed.
BTW, you should periodically flip the blade as you have done
and it is a good thing to lightly draw file the used edge
which will up after the blade is flipped.
So what have you learned? don't continue to try to cut with
a dull blade, sharpen it.
Good luck.
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
> looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
> bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
> indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
> something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG
There probably is very little or no damage to the bar.
How long a saw chain will stay sharp depends on the quality of the chain and
what you are cutting. You may have hit a small stone or nail imbeded in the
wood you are cutting. Dirt, stones, nails, wire, and more can be found in
trees and you could cut into one with out even knowing.
As your experiance grows you will realize when to sharpen, or change saw
chains. Change them often! Do not force the saw to cut, just guide it
throught the cut. If you plan on cutting a fair amount of wood you should
have 5-6 spare chains.
Greg
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> diesel_fuel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You say
> > -----------------------------------
> > I started into some oak about 12" in diameter I worked through
this for
> > about an hour
> > 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> > were smoking so badly
> > ------------------------------------
> > this is a very blunt chainsaw
> > less than 10 seconds per cut for a sharp chain
>
>
> I didn't say that it took me an hour to make 7 or 8 cuts, I said
that I
> had been cutting for about an hour, but it became progressively more
> difficult to cut.
>
> In any case, you're right, with a sharp chain on this saw it is just
a
> few seconds per cut.
>
> In any case, I do have a filing kit w/guides, so I am going to give
that
> a go and see what happens.
>
> Thanks to all for your replies.
>
>
> JKG
I haven't followed this thread all the way through, but I'll add that
I use a Dremel with a chainsaw blade sharpening kit on it with
excellent results and no more material removal than filing would
cause. It's a lot quicker than filing.
Ken (MI)
One problem to watch for is when the cutters dull on one side, or when the
sharpening angles are not the same side to side. The chain will try to tip
over in the cut, which makes it cut poorly and also widens the groove in the
bar. If the bar groove becomes much wider than the drive legs on the chain,
it's worn out.
John Martin
Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>The 346XP uses as .325 pitch chain, and spins it at close to 15k RPM. I
>>>think my confusion was caused when I switched from softer wood into
>>>seasoned oak, things became much more difficult and the saw required
>>>much more force to cut. After a new chain, I now understand that the
>>>saw shouldn't require much force to cut even the oak.
>>
>>Spins at 15K? You gotta be kidding?
>
>
> Well, I haven't measured it, but it's somewhere around 14.5k according
> to Husky. Anyway, I can verify that it's fast. But, as I've learned,
> it is not tolerant of even a slightly worn chain. I think I'm going to
> have to buy at least one more chain in order to make it through a day
> without having to stop and sharpen.
>
>
> JKG
I think it is not RPM (spinning) Chains saw generally have a
direct drive and the drive wheel is fairly small, maybe a
max of 4" in diameter (about 13" in circumference. Don't
know what your bar size and chain are assume an 18" bar
which makes the chain at least 44" long. So, divide 44 by
13 = 3.4. Your engine would be turning 3.4 x 15K or 51K.
Never heard of a chainsaw engine that could rev to 51,000
rpm. Could be wrong, but that would be one hell of an
engine.
Chain saws with their steel teeth and often abusive cutting conditions
(especially if the teeth contact dirt) have to be sharpened way more
frequently than table saw blades. Notice how chain sharpening
equipment can be easily used sitting on a log in the woods? That's
where you are likely to use the equipment. I often take a break to
sharpen during extended cutting sessions.
I suspect that the bar paint is gone on account of contact with the
wood instead of heat. Your heat question does make me think though.
The 346XP takes a 3/8" pitch narrow kerf chain, right? Maybe the
narrow kerf chains aren't as tolerant of hard use. Otherwise why
wouldn't all saws come with them?
Your saw is probably fine. In the future change or sharpen the chain
sooner. Were you bucking thick logs non-stop or felling and limbing?
I think of the 346XP as a felling and limbing saw.
Sounds like premature ejaculation and anticipation of
trolling........Your the one thats uptight making quick assed
assumptions........you would think with yur so called age you would be
more chilled out and easy going and not so quick to jump to
conclusions.
As to your chain and bar, I doubt you did anyhting to it that will
cause you problems. More use and experieince and you will get the hang
of it. A saw should cut without having to apply pressure if the chain
is sharp, so keep an eye on the chips, wehich should be nice flakes of
wood, and when you start getting raggy, edged and dust more than chip
look and it starts slowing down you know its time to touch up the
chain. As carefull as one can be non one can see what has been grown
into trees etc over their lifetime, and this is a common thing.
Run a file along the sides of your bar to knock off any wire edge that
it may have. As to paint on the bar, most of my saws have little to no
paint left on the bars, as its gonna wear off with use. Its highly
unlikely ou burned off the paint on the bars sides to amount to
much, along the gujide slot perhaps , but you just did not generate
sufficient heat to burn it off the sides.
Lots of luck and be safe.
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:00:26 GMT, "Wilson Lamb"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>===<>My troll alarm went off because it's pretty far fetched that someone would
>===<>smoke the bar on a brand new Husky and not stop to see what was wrong! You
>===<>obviously have never used a CS seriously, or it wouldn't have happened. I
>===<>thought my reply was pretty reasonable and the advice good. In my 50 years
>===<>of being close to chainsaws, I've never seen a smoking bar, so maybe you can
>===<>cut me a little slack. I HAVE seen a chain or two on backwards, which
>===<>really takes the cake!
>===<>
>===<>I'm way too old to get an ego rush from chatting on a newsgroup, so maybe
>===<>you could lighten up a little? If this had happened in the field, you'd
>===<>have received a good ribbing in person!
>===<>
>===<>Wilson
>===<>
>===<>"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>===<>news:[email protected]...
>===<>> In article <[email protected]>,
>===<>> "Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>>> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
>===<>>> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
>===<>>> suddenly feel it start to cut poorly, like you have hit something.
>===<>>>
>===<>>> A touchup like that only takes a couple of minutes and gives you a chance
>===<>>> to
>===<>>> rest and think about safety. There's no reason to overload the engine or
>===<>>> ruin the parts prematurely, or to waste time cutting slowly.
>===<>>>
>===<>>> If you damaged the bar by softening it, you'll soon see the saw veering
>===<>>> off
>===<>>> line when you cut. As soon as that happens, you have to dress the bottom
>===<>>> of
>===<>>> the bar to make the two sides exactly parallel. If the blade has
>===<>>> softened,
>===<>>> it will soon wear unevenly and veer again. Good shops can dress the bar
>===<>>> pretty well, but if it is bad it will pay to get a new one.
>===<>>>
>===<>>> My troll alarm is tinkling on this, but maybe the advice will be useful
>===<>>> to
>===<>>> some beginners.
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their
>===<>> chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate
>===<>> question.
>===<>>
>===<>> First of all, I never said anything that indicated that I wasn't being
>===<>> safe with the saw. This was my first cut into oak with this saw, and
>===<>> the high degree of smoke did tip me off that something wasn't right,
>===<>> even though I now realize (with a new chain) that I shouldn't have had
>===<>> to work nearly that hard to cut through even seasoned oak. However, I
>===<>> suspect that I did little more than burn some bar oil off the bar and
>===<>> chain, along with some bar paint.
>===<>>
>===<>> Secondly, I'm not sure what caused your "troll alarm" to start
>===<>> "tinkling," but I don't appreciate the suggestion that this question is
>===<>> somehow a troll. If you don't feel that a question is worthy of your
>===<>> great body of knowledge, you are always free to not reply.
>===<>>
>===<>> I will state that I do appreciate thoughtful replies from those who
>===<>> don't have anything to gain by making snide remarks.
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> JKG
>===<>
REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:01:43 GMT, Elmo <Elmo_409@_hotmail.whatever>
wrote:
>It's really quite simple. You've got that old fuel mix from last year
>(or was it the year before?) so why mix up new stuff? Changing spark
>plugs isn't really necessary. Don't bother with the air filter either.
> Choke? And remember, never ever RTFM.
A couple years ago I pulled my old big McCulloch out of storage and
went to start it. There was still a bit of gas in it from 4-5 years
earlier, so I just popped the compression release, set the choke, held
the throttle and gave it a spin to see what it would do. Started on
the second pull. Smoked like crazy because about half the gas had
evaporated, leaving a pretty oil-rich mix, but I was sure surprised
when it fired up.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
In article <[email protected]>, Old Nick <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:35:33 -0800, "....Ken" <[email protected]>
>vaguely proposed a theory
>.......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>>
>>"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
>>> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
>>work.
>>
>>I think Wilson may be holding some kind of smoke in his lungs too long.
>
>Why? Because he suggests toucjing up the chain each tankful? Common
>and good advice!
.. for no other reason than it makes cutting much easier. :)
Bruce
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone´s fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, I´m one of Us. I must be.
I´ve certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. We´re always one of Us. It´s Them that do
the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.
Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
You say
-----------------------------------
I started into some oak about 12" in diameter I worked through this for
about an hour
7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
were smoking so badly
------------------------------------
this is a very blunt chainsaw
less than 10 seconds per cut for a sharp chain
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> anyway.
>
> After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
> I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
> 346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
> that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
> requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
> tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
> began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
> wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
> the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
> and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
>
> I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the
> edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was
> completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the
> bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had
> simply burned off at these locations.
>
> Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to
> force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.
>
> The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious
> signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where
> the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar
> rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and
> the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky
> chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to
> keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than
> wood during operation.
>
>
> My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
> looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
> bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
> indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
> something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Actually, I did stop after it was apparent that the bar and chain were
> smoking. It wasn't apparent what was happening at first.
>
If the chain and bar were smoking, then that suggests to me that you
didn't have enough chain bar oil in the tank?!? Or maybe that the feeder
hole was blocked, or that the groove in the bar was full of sawdust.
Smoking should never occur blunt chain or sharp, if the chain
lubrication works as it should.
Incidentally - there is more to it than hardwood and softwood. Some
woods are very abrasive on chains, and you need to touch up much more
often. (eucalyptos spp., for instance). A chain with rounded over
cutters rather than the sharp cornered ones will live and perform much
better in such woods (the sharp cornered ones perform better in soft
timbers like pine and cedar).
I support what someone else already said: touch up the chain at every
refuelling. Do a proper sharpening maybe every 5th or 6th tank ...
-P.
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> anyway.
snip
The bar is fine. Just make sure the oiler is working properly, keep chain
oil topped up.
Sharpen the chain regularly, if it's making square chips it's sharp, if it's
making dust it's dull.
Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
suddenly feel it start to cut poorly, like you have hit something.
A touchup like that only takes a couple of minutes and gives you a chance to
rest and think about safety. There's no reason to overload the engine or
ruin the parts prematurely, or to waste time cutting slowly.
If you damaged the bar by softening it, you'll soon see the saw veering off
line when you cut. As soon as that happens, you have to dress the bottom of
the bar to make the two sides exactly parallel. If the blade has softened,
it will soon wear unevenly and veer again. Good shops can dress the bar
pretty well, but if it is bad it will pay to get a new one.
My troll alarm is tinkling on this, but maybe the advice will be useful to
some beginners.
ALL CHAINSAW USERS SHOULD BE CAREFUL! Keep the bar away from the legs and
keep the tip out of the cut. Be sure you aren't cutting something that can
spring up or fall. Take the time to look at each cut and think what will
happen when you cut through. Hearing protectors work!
Wilson
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> anyway.
>
> After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
> I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
> 346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
> that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
> requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
> tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
> began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
> wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
> the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
> and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
>
> I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the
> edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was
> completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the
> bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had
> simply burned off at these locations.
>
> Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to
> force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.
>
> The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious
> signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where
> the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar
> rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and
> the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky
> chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to
> keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than
> wood during operation.
>
>
> My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
> looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
> bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
> indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
> something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG
"Bruce Sinclair" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Keeping a cahinsaw sharp is IMO the most important part of maintenance. As
> soon as you notice it's not cutting so well, sharpen it. Before you start,
> sharpen it. You get the idea :)
>
When you stop to fuel up, is a good time to hit the chain a least a couple
of swipes on each cutter. Another good time is right after you hit a sap
spout, a rock, a nail, etc... which is guan to be immediately after you
finish sharpening it during your fuel stop.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Juergen Hannappel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>... speaking of Chainsaws: A (local fool) buys a new chainsaw,
>>impressed by the dealers promise that he can fell 100 trees per day
>>with the saw. Next day he returns furiously to the shop and complains:
>>"A hundred trees? I did not even manage one, and i was all woked
>>out! The saw cuts very poorly." The dealer is astonished, takes the
>>saw to see if anything is wrong, pulls the starter cord, the saw
>>starts up all right. Astonished buyer: "What's that for a strange
>>sound?"
>
>
>
> I will admit to being amazed at how much trouble some folks have
> starting chain saws. The saw that I purchased doesn't have a
> compression release, and it's almost easier to start than my car. I
> really don't understand where the problem is for folks, particularly
> with a new saw.
It's really quite simple. You've got that old fuel mix from last year
(or was it the year before?) so why mix up new stuff? Changing spark
plugs isn't really necessary. Don't bother with the air filter either.
Choke? And remember, never ever RTFM.
>
>
>
> JKG
In article <[email protected]>, Jonathan Goodish <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <%[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Smoking? And you didn't stop? yep, that is dumb, but you
>> know that.
>
>Actually, I did stop after it was apparent that the bar and chain were
>smoking. It wasn't apparent what was happening at first.
>
>I have noticed that a chain that is wearing will go through softer woods
>without a problem but will not go through harder woods, such as oak.
>Given the fact that day 2 began with the oak, the distinction between
>the two wasn't as apparent as it would have been had I moved immediately
>from softer to harder woods. But, you're right, I now know how to
>instantly recognize when a chain isn't performing as it should.
Keeping a cahinsaw sharp is IMO the most important part of maintenance. As
soon as you notice it's not cutting so well, sharpen it. Before you start,
sharpen it. You get the idea :)
>
>
>JKG
Bruce
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone´s fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, I´m one of Us. I must be.
I´ve certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. We´re always one of Us. It´s Them that do
the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.
Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
work.
I think Wilson may be holding some kind of smoke in his lungs too long.
>
> Wilson
> "Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> > read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> > sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> > anyway.
> >
> > After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
> > I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
> > 346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
> > that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
> > requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
> > tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
> > began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> > were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
> > wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
> > the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
> > and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
> >
> > I inspected the bar and noticed that the paint had disappeared along the
> > edges of the bar, the Husky lettering in the center of the bar was
> > completely gone, and there were a couple of spots in the center of the
> > bar where the paint had disappeared. I suspect that the paint had
> > simply burned off at these locations.
> >
> > Obviously, the chain was dull. Why that wasn't obvious when I had to
> > force the saw to cut is beyond me. That's the bad news.
> >
> > The good news is that I inspected the bar and didn't see any obvious
> > signs of damage. I didn't notice any "bluing" of the bar metal where
> > the paint is gone, and I didn't notice any burring or flaring of the bar
> > rails. I did flip the bar over and put a new Oregon chain on it, and
> > the saw now cuts like a champ. I am not sure why the original Husky
> > chain became so dull after only 3 hours on the saw, as I took care to
> > keep it out of the dirt and certainly didn't hit anything other than
> > wood during operation.
> >
> >
> > My question: What signs of damage to the saw, bar, or chain should I be
> > looking for at this point? I suspect that the paint burning off of the
> > bar is premature wear at this point, but I'm not sure if that is a
> > indicator of damage. Does it sound like I got lucky this time, or could
> > something have been damaged that is not yet obvious?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > JKG
>
First off.....check that you have chain oil in your new saw. One hole for
the gas ....one hole for the chain oil.
If you did do this, check that the oil can get to your bar. There is a
little hole on the side of your bar that lets the oil in.
You have to take the side cover off to see it. Periodically you HAVE TO
clean this little hole and the groove in your bar. Chainsaws do not have
'blades' . Chains and bars.....no blades. Occasionally, after extensive use,
you can feel a bit of chain wear on your bar.......simply run a flat file
down the side of the bar and remove the bur. You are a 'long' ways away from
developing that problem. Remember that you have to lubricate the tip of your
bar.....if it has a wee hole to do so.....grease not oil in this hole. Last
two points, when you are holding your saw keep your thumb locked around the
handle...not over the handle, like a young girl; when it bucks back in your
face you will appreciate this advice....and keep your head to the LEFT, away
from being in line with the bar when...not if...it bucks back at you.
Now, did anyone tell you which side of a log you should stand on when
bucking ......just might break your legs if you choose wrong.
BTW.......filing a chain so it is 'razor' sharp don't mean squat........if
your rakers are high.
Good luck lad........nothing feels so good as knocking
down your first big 'stick'
Drop me a line if you wish................Ken
My troll alarm went off because it's pretty far fetched that someone would
smoke the bar on a brand new Husky and not stop to see what was wrong! You
obviously have never used a CS seriously, or it wouldn't have happened. I
thought my reply was pretty reasonable and the advice good. In my 50 years
of being close to chainsaws, I've never seen a smoking bar, so maybe you can
cut me a little slack. I HAVE seen a chain or two on backwards, which
really takes the cake!
I'm way too old to get an ego rush from chatting on a newsgroup, so maybe
you could lighten up a little? If this had happened in the field, you'd
have received a good ribbing in person!
Wilson
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
>> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
>> suddenly feel it start to cut poorly, like you have hit something.
>>
>> A touchup like that only takes a couple of minutes and gives you a chance
>> to
>> rest and think about safety. There's no reason to overload the engine or
>> ruin the parts prematurely, or to waste time cutting slowly.
>>
>> If you damaged the bar by softening it, you'll soon see the saw veering
>> off
>> line when you cut. As soon as that happens, you have to dress the bottom
>> of
>> the bar to make the two sides exactly parallel. If the blade has
>> softened,
>> it will soon wear unevenly and veer again. Good shops can dress the bar
>> pretty well, but if it is bad it will pay to get a new one.
>>
>> My troll alarm is tinkling on this, but maybe the advice will be useful
>> to
>> some beginners.
>
>
>
> You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their
> chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate
> question.
>
> First of all, I never said anything that indicated that I wasn't being
> safe with the saw. This was my first cut into oak with this saw, and
> the high degree of smoke did tip me off that something wasn't right,
> even though I now realize (with a new chain) that I shouldn't have had
> to work nearly that hard to cut through even seasoned oak. However, I
> suspect that I did little more than burn some bar oil off the bar and
> chain, along with some bar paint.
>
> Secondly, I'm not sure what caused your "troll alarm" to start
> "tinkling," but I don't appreciate the suggestion that this question is
> somehow a troll. If you don't feel that a question is worthy of your
> great body of knowledge, you are always free to not reply.
>
> I will state that I do appreciate thoughtful replies from those who
> don't have anything to gain by making snide remarks.
>
>
>
> JKG
"Jonathan Goodish" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
> read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
> sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
> anyway.
>
> After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
Chain just stretched, a new one will get a little longer after hard use,
that's why there's an adjustment on the bar. I use a Dremel chain saw
sharpener, doesn't take any time to touch up a saw, but I use a good guide
and file for serious sharpening.
RJ
[email protected] (Bruce Sinclair) posted on
that vast internet thingie:
>Keeping a cahinsaw sharp is IMO the most important part of maintenance. As
>soon as you notice it's not cutting so well, sharpen it. Before you start,
>sharpen it. You get the idea :)
Good advice! Which remindeded me of another tip. You saw should be
throwing small wood chips and not fine sawdust. If your making
sawdust instead of a pile of chips then you need to stop and sharpen.
Steve at SELLCOM
--
http://www.sellcom.com
Discount multihandset cordless phones by Panasonic AT&T,
5.8Ghz 2line; TMC ET4000 4line Epic phone, OnHoldPlus, Watchguard!
Brick wall "non MOV" surge protection. Firewood splitters www.splitlogs.com
If you sit at a desk www.ergochair.biz you owe it to yourself.
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:40:41 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Ok OK. You admitted to a really daft act. The guy made a mild
reference to trolling. He still gave good advice, to someone who
admits to being a newbie, and who did a daft thing with a chainsaw.
There is not much room for that with chainsaws. Let's let it alone?
BTW I am not taking sides here. I have bever heard of or from Wilson
Lamb before TMK.
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:35:33 -0800, "....Ken" <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
>> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
>work.
>
>I think Wilson may be holding some kind of smoke in his lungs too long.
Why? Because he suggests toucjing up the chain each tankful? Common
and good advice!
In article <[email protected]>,
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well, I haven't measured it, but it's somewhere around 14.5k according
> > to Husky. Anyway, I can verify that it's fast. But, as I've learned,
> > it is not tolerant of even a slightly worn chain. I think I'm going to
> > have to buy at least one more chain in order to make it through a day
> > without having to stop and sharpen.
> >
> >
> > JKG
>
> I think it is not RPM (spinning) Chains saw generally have a
> direct drive and the drive wheel is fairly small, maybe a
> max of 4" in diameter (about 13" in circumference. Don't
> know what your bar size and chain are assume an 18" bar
> which makes the chain at least 44" long. So, divide 44 by
> 13 = 3.4. Your engine would be turning 3.4 x 15K or 51K.
> Never heard of a chainsaw engine that could rev to 51,000
> rpm. Could be wrong, but that would be one hell of an
> engine.
I didn't mean to imply that the CHAIN spins that fast, but rather that
the engine is turning at that speed. Husky says 14.7k max engine speed,
which is a lot less than 51k but still faster than many saws. In any
case, I can tell you that it smokes a dull chain in a hurry. :-)
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (dwright) wrote:
> Chain saws with their steel teeth and often abusive cutting conditions
> (especially if the teeth contact dirt) have to be sharpened way more
> frequently than table saw blades. Notice how chain sharpening
> equipment can be easily used sitting on a log in the woods? That's
> where you are likely to use the equipment. I often take a break to
> sharpen during extended cutting sessions.
>
> I suspect that the bar paint is gone on account of contact with the
> wood instead of heat. Your heat question does make me think though.
> The 346XP takes a 3/8" pitch narrow kerf chain, right? Maybe the
> narrow kerf chains aren't as tolerant of hard use. Otherwise why
> wouldn't all saws come with them?
>
> Your saw is probably fine. In the future change or sharpen the chain
> sooner. Were you bucking thick logs non-stop or felling and limbing?
> I think of the 346XP as a felling and limbing saw.
Thanks for your reply.
The 346XP uses as .325 pitch chain, and spins it at close to 15k RPM. I
think my confusion was caused when I switched from softer wood into
seasoned oak, things became much more difficult and the saw required
much more force to cut. After a new chain, I now understand that the
saw shouldn't require much force to cut even the oak.
Yes, my use so far as been mainly felling and limbing... so far, nothing
greater than about 17" in diameter. You may be correct about the bar
paint, as the saw probably has a good 4-5 hours on it now. I know that
the paint doesn't last forever.
Thanks again for your input.
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
diesel_fuel <[email protected]> wrote:
> You say
> -----------------------------------
> I started into some oak about 12" in diameter I worked through this for
> about an hour
> 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
> were smoking so badly
> ------------------------------------
> this is a very blunt chainsaw
> less than 10 seconds per cut for a sharp chain
I didn't say that it took me an hour to make 7 or 8 cuts, I said that I
had been cutting for about an hour, but it became progressively more
difficult to cut.
In any case, you're right, with a sharp chain on this saw it is just a
few seconds per cut.
In any case, I do have a filing kit w/guides, so I am going to give that
a go and see what happens.
Thanks to all for your replies.
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My troll alarm went off because it's pretty far fetched that someone would
> smoke the bar on a brand new Husky and not stop to see what was wrong! You
> obviously have never used a CS seriously, or it wouldn't have happened. I
> thought my reply was pretty reasonable and the advice good. In my 50 years
> of being close to chainsaws, I've never seen a smoking bar, so maybe you can
> cut me a little slack. I HAVE seen a chain or two on backwards, which
> really takes the cake!
Please re-read my original post. I didn't ask if the smoke was normal,
I said that I realized that something was wrong and stopped. My
question was "What may have been damaged and how would I identify it?"
I have used saws quite a bit in the distant past, but not
professionally, so I suspect that doesn't meet your definition of using
a saw "seriously." Some folks have been very helpful without the need
to make snide remarks. If I was a pro or semi-pro I agree, I would
probably have received a well-deserved ribbing.
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, letting the smoke out is never a good thing to do.
> You should touch up the chain every time you fill the tank. More if you
> suddenly feel it start to cut poorly, like you have hit something.
>
> A touchup like that only takes a couple of minutes and gives you a chance to
> rest and think about safety. There's no reason to overload the engine or
> ruin the parts prematurely, or to waste time cutting slowly.
>
> If you damaged the bar by softening it, you'll soon see the saw veering off
> line when you cut. As soon as that happens, you have to dress the bottom of
> the bar to make the two sides exactly parallel. If the blade has softened,
> it will soon wear unevenly and veer again. Good shops can dress the bar
> pretty well, but if it is bad it will pay to get a new one.
>
> My troll alarm is tinkling on this, but maybe the advice will be useful to
> some beginners.
You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their
chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate
question.
First of all, I never said anything that indicated that I wasn't being
safe with the saw. This was my first cut into oak with this saw, and
the high degree of smoke did tip me off that something wasn't right,
even though I now realize (with a new chain) that I shouldn't have had
to work nearly that hard to cut through even seasoned oak. However, I
suspect that I did little more than burn some bar oil off the bar and
chain, along with some bar paint.
Secondly, I'm not sure what caused your "troll alarm" to start
"tinkling," but I don't appreciate the suggestion that this question is
somehow a troll. If you don't feel that a question is worthy of your
great body of knowledge, you are always free to not reply.
I will state that I do appreciate thoughtful replies from those who
don't have anything to gain by making snide remarks.
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The 346XP uses as .325 pitch chain, and spins it at close to 15k RPM. I
> > think my confusion was caused when I switched from softer wood into
> > seasoned oak, things became much more difficult and the saw required
> > much more force to cut. After a new chain, I now understand that the
> > saw shouldn't require much force to cut even the oak.
>
> Spins at 15K? You gotta be kidding?
Well, I haven't measured it, but it's somewhere around 14.5k according
to Husky. Anyway, I can verify that it's fast. But, as I've learned,
it is not tolerant of even a slightly worn chain. I think I'm going to
have to buy at least one more chain in order to make it through a day
without having to stop and sharpen.
JKG
In article <%[email protected]>,
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smoking? And you didn't stop? yep, that is dumb, but you
> know that.
Actually, I did stop after it was apparent that the bar and chain were
smoking. It wasn't apparent what was happening at first.
I have noticed that a chain that is wearing will go through softer woods
without a problem but will not go through harder woods, such as oak.
Given the fact that day 2 began with the oak, the distinction between
the two wasn't as apparent as it would have been had I moved immediately
from softer to harder woods. But, you're right, I now know how to
instantly recognize when a chain isn't performing as it should.
JKG
In article <[email protected]>,
Juergen Hannappel <[email protected]> wrote:
> ... speaking of Chainsaws: A (local fool) buys a new chainsaw,
> impressed by the dealers promise that he can fell 100 trees per day
> with the saw. Next day he returns furiously to the shop and complains:
> "A hundred trees? I did not even manage one, and i was all woked
> out! The saw cuts very poorly." The dealer is astonished, takes the
> saw to see if anything is wrong, pulls the starter cord, the saw
> starts up all right. Astonished buyer: "What's that for a strange
> sound?"
I will admit to being amazed at how much trouble some folks have
starting chain saws. The saw that I purchased doesn't have a
compression release, and it's almost easier to start than my car. I
really don't understand where the problem is for folks, particularly
with a new saw.
JKG
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:58:02 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their
>chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate
>question.
I'm amazed that someone can use a chainsaw and have smoke pouring off
the bar before they realise something is wrong.
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> posted on that vast internet
thingie:
>In my 50 years
>of being close to chainsaws, I've never seen a smoking bar
In all fairness to the other guy, I had a situation where the little
holes in the bar had gotten plugged up with sawdust and things were
getting pretty hot. More to your point I immediately stopped before
completely trashing the bar and troubleshooted the problem.
I think we would all agree that when using a chain saw if anything is
not "normal", STOP immediately and find out what the problem is.
I remember another time when (I don't know *HOW* it could have
happened) the oil cap on the saw had not been properly tightened and
had popped open. I'm glad I stopped since I don't think that would
have been covered under warranty.
Steve at SELLCOM
--
http://www.sellcom.com
Discount multihandset cordless phones by Panasonic AT&T,
5.8Ghz 2line; TMC ET4000 4line Epic phone, OnHoldPlus, Watchguard!
Brick wall "non MOV" surge protection. Firewood splitters www.splitlogs.com
If you sit at a desk www.ergochair.biz you owe it to yourself.
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:47:07 -0500, Jonathan Goodish
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I am a relatively new chain saw owner who has Googled extensively and
>read the owner's manual several times. I have a good degree of common
>sense, and try to take care, but I am destined to make stupid mistakes
>anyway.
>
>After about 2 hours of use on the new saw going through cherry and ash,
>I started into some oak about 12" in diameter with a 20" bar on a Husky
>346XP (fast saw). I worked through this for about an hour and noticed
>that the the oak seemed to be getting progressively harder to cut,
>requiring more pressure on the saw as I moved toward the base of the
>tree (tree had been felled already). Eventually, the bar and chain
>began to smoke, and I probably made 7 or 8 cuts until the bar and chain
>were smoking so badly it became obvious that something was seriously
>wrong... the bar oil on the bar was bubbling from the heat. I removed
>the bar from the log and ran the saw for about 30 seconds to oil the bar
>and allow the smoke to dissipate from the bar and chain.
I've smoked a bar or two over the years, so don't feel too bad about
it. If there was still oil on the bar and it doesn't appear blue you
probably didn't hurt the bar. Your problem seems (as you guessed) to
come from a dull chain, so you are more likely to have damaged the
chain. At worst, however, it will only mean that the chain won't stay
sharp very long. Most of my chain saw work is done in softwood - dry
pine or fir for firewood - and I probably sharpen the chain every hour
or slightly more often, cutting cherry, ash and oak you aren't going
to keep a chain sharp for an hour of steady cutting, let alone two or
three. At this point my test would be to sharpen the chain and see if
it cuts straight. If the saw wants to cut curves you may be able to
sharpen it out, but I'd just toss the chain and try a new one. It is
actually pretty amazing how messed up a bar and chain can be and still
cut great as long as the chain is sharp.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:11:28 +1300, Peter Huebner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> Actually, I did stop after it was apparent that the bar and chain were
>> smoking. It wasn't apparent what was happening at first.
>>
>
>If the chain and bar were smoking, then that suggests to me that you
>didn't have enough chain bar oil in the tank?!? Or maybe that the feeder
>hole was blocked, or that the groove in the bar was full of sawdust.
>Smoking should never occur blunt chain or sharp, if the chain
>lubrication works as it should.
A dull chain will smoke like crazy if you keep trying to force it to
cut - in fact the more oil on the bar the more it will smoke. I've
conducted this experiment more than once in the past trying to use an
old bar and chain to cut some bridge timbers - lots of heat, lots of
smoke, not much cutting.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:56:53 -0800, Tim Douglass
<[email protected]> wrote:
>McCulloch
>Smoked like crazy because about half the gas had
>evaporated, leaving a pretty oil-rich mix, but I was sure surprised
>when it fired up.
It's a McCulloch. I wouldn't rave about them as saws, but they have a
very good little ignition system. You can buy it as a spare part and
I've fitted it to several old engines ('50s vintage) to much improve
cold starting.
--
Smert' spamionam
Jonathan Goodish wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (dwright) wrote:
>
>
>>Chain saws with their steel teeth and often abusive cutting conditions
>>(especially if the teeth contact dirt) have to be sharpened way more
>>frequently than table saw blades. Notice how chain sharpening
>>equipment can be easily used sitting on a log in the woods? That's
>>where you are likely to use the equipment. I often take a break to
>>sharpen during extended cutting sessions.
>>
>>I suspect that the bar paint is gone on account of contact with the
>>wood instead of heat. Your heat question does make me think though.
>>The 346XP takes a 3/8" pitch narrow kerf chain, right? Maybe the
>>narrow kerf chains aren't as tolerant of hard use. Otherwise why
>>wouldn't all saws come with them?
>>
>>Your saw is probably fine. In the future change or sharpen the chain
>>sooner. Were you bucking thick logs non-stop or felling and limbing?
>> I think of the 346XP as a felling and limbing saw.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> The 346XP uses as .325 pitch chain, and spins it at close to 15k RPM. I
> think my confusion was caused when I switched from softer wood into
> seasoned oak, things became much more difficult and the saw required
> much more force to cut. After a new chain, I now understand that the
> saw shouldn't require much force to cut even the oak.
>
> Yes, my use so far as been mainly felling and limbing... so far, nothing
> greater than about 17" in diameter. You may be correct about the bar
> paint, as the saw probably has a good 4-5 hours on it now. I know that
> the paint doesn't last forever.
>
> Thanks again for your input.
>
>
> JKG
Spins at 15K? You gotta be kidding?
Jonathan Goodish <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> You know, I'm always amazed at how some folks can't help but beat their
> chest and display their ego every time someone asks a legitimate
> question.
>
> First of all, I never said anything that indicated that I wasn't being
> safe with the saw. This was my first cut into oak with this saw, and
... speaking of Chainsaws: A (local fool) buys a new chainsaw,
impressed by the dealers promise that he can fell 100 trees per day
with the saw. Next day he returns furiously to the shop and complains:
"A hundred trees? I did not even manage one, and i was all woked
out! The saw cuts very poorly." The dealer is astonished, takes the
saw to see if anything is wrong, pulls the starter cord, the saw
starts up all right. Astonished buyer: "What's that for a strange
sound?"
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23