"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A new set of photos has been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
442 - "easy-out" type tool.
443 - bung hammer?
444 - roll crimper
445 - seaming tool
446 -
447 - some type of ice tong?
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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442: screw/bolt extractor
443: smithing hammer, for getting into highly raised work
445: marking knife
447: haybale lifter thingy. The lifting point is between the
gear teeth. The lever is the release thingy that would
have a line on it
yours,
Michael
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
[email protected] | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/wwap/
Lloyd Sponenburgh writes:
>>> I know this trivia ... but most don't.
That's what you think.
>>> WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
The answer is that if this phrase ever referred to anything specific,
it's no longer known for sure.
Larry Green answers:
>> I grew up in the UK and at one time it was very common to see 'brass
>> monkeys' sitting either on the mantelpieces above a fireplace or in the
>> hearth ... 'See No Evil' ... 'Hear No Evil' ... and ... 'Speak No Evil'.
>> In very cold weather ... if the monkeys were to stand up they could
>> have left their testicles behind.
This is as good an explanation as any -- simple hyperbole.
Lloyd now comments:
> Nope. But it does have something to do with balls. <G>
Lloyd needs to read these references:
<http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bra1.htm>
<http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm>
--
Mark Brader | "I do not want to give the impression I spend all
Toronto | my time on the Internet, but in the right hands
[email protected] | it is a wondrous tool, and in the wrong hands
| it is an even better one." -- Cecil Adams
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Lloyd Sponenburgh:
>>>>> I know this trivia ... but most don't.
Mark Brader:
>> That's what you think.
Lloyd Sponenburgh:
> Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
Go on, then. Prove it.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Gadgetry abounded everywhere, almost all of which
[email protected] | he could justify." -- Robert Asprin
Lloyd Sponenburgh:
> On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
> low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
> decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
I said *prove* it. I have already posted cites refuting this answer.
--
Mark Brader, Short words good; sesquipedalian verbalizations undesirable
Toronto, [email protected] -- after George Orwell
In article <[email protected]>,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Gareth Owen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
>>
>> The story I've heard is that it refers (in some way I could never
>> figure) to cannonballs and powder monkeys on Naval ships.
>
>From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
>way:
>
>Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a "ball
>monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used today.
>"Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
>
>On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
>low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
>decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
>This, to ready the balls for quick access.
>
>Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
>within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
>cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
>brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
>
>Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of course, the
>vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
>
Unfortunately, the above is *NOT* factual. It makes a good story, but ---
1) there are no authoritative references to those triangular frames as
a monkey (or variant of the word). I ran this down with several
professional military historians.
2) work out the thermal 'coefficient of expansion/contraction' for
the materials involved -- the fit 'at room temperature' would have
to be incredibly tight for the differences over, say 100 degrees F,
to cause the pyramid to tumble.
The "most reliable" history of the phrase traces it to cheap brass castings
from India, of "seated" monkeys (be it the classical "three monkeys" poses,
or others) imported to England and other Northern climes, with the subsequent
weather extremes leading to stress fractures at the relevant point in the
anatomy.
NOTE: I believed the 'naval' version to be the accurate story for many years.
had to do a bunch of digging to attempt to verify, when a career military
(artillery) person questioned it. Come to find there _wasn't_ any factual
basis. Despite the very plausible sound of it.
A few years later, "Cecil Adams" (of 'The Straight Dope') published his
research on the matter -- with the results cited above, with a note along
the lines of:
'improbable as it seems, this phrase is a literal description ...'
R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
#443: Hammer for body work, sheet metal work
#444: Tool for pressing/forming caps onto small bottles. Like vaccine
bottles etc.
#445: for folding paper. "Scribe" a groove into paper, then bend it
along that groove.
#447: some kind of quick caliper?
Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> 436. Brass balls with rods and wood frame, please choose just one of the
> following:
Still an open question:
How do the upper ends of the needles/rods look like? Is there a hole or
whatever?
> Before you vote on the next one, please take a look at the close-up of it at
> the link below. It shows the bracket on the back, it looks like it could
> possibly be mounted on a beam or some other structure. Also note the small
> spring in the upper right that looks to serve as a cushion for the lever.
And also please note:
If you pull up the lever on the right, the thing will _open_. So if you
want to lift something up, you would have to press it down. Not the most
clever way, nor not?
So this device is not for lifting anything. IMHO, if you want. :-)
Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'll have to do a some research on this.
What confuses me the most about that thing is: Where can you lift it.
OK, there is the "release-lever", but not very solid. Between the two
gears, there is some flat, that might have broken. But if this is where
some kind of handle has been, it should point outwards not inwards.
Or has this device been taken appart and back together wrong?
Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
443 Panel beater's or metal worker's dolly
445 Fleam - for bloodletting, possibly veterinarian
447 Log lifter or puller
Roy Dennis
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Cornucopia-Antiques-Collectables
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A new set of photos has been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
R.H. wrote:
> 446. Ice cube maker
> A little more info can be found on the answer page:
>
> http://pzphotosan80.blogspot.com/
From the description, I'm having trouble
picturing how that device would work.
Does it "cut out ice cubes" from the block
of ice that it sits upon? If so, where is
the hot water held? Sorry if I'm not
seeing the obvious.
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
http://www.lumpymusic.com
Michael Houghton wrote:
>
...
> 447: haybale lifter thingy. The lifting point is between the
> gear teeth. The lever is the release thingy that would
> have a line on it
Don't think it's a hayhook although I suppose it could have been used as
such.
Can't get much of a feel for the overall size as I have no idea what the
19" dimension is in reference to, but I'm thinking it looks more like a
light logging hook than for hay purposes.
But, hey, who knows what them crazy Canadians did, eh? :)
Rob
re # 436 The only thing I have seen that comes close is a tester for
finding out the hardness of optical pitch used to polish telescope
mirrors and lenses. Although they are usually calibrated with a scale
of some kind. Maybe it had a similar use for a different item. See the
url below
http://www.turbofast.com.au/astrotel/pitchtester.html
R.H. wrote:
> A new set of photos has been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
Doug Payne wrote:
>
> On 01/09/2005 2:19 PM, Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> > Can't get much of a feel for the overall size as I have no idea what the
> > 19" dimension is in reference to, but I'm thinking it looks more like a
> > light logging hook than for hay purposes.
> >
> > But, hey, who knows what them crazy Canadians did, eh? :)
>
> Heyyyy, I resemble that remark!
>
> I agree, too small for a hay hook, which typically only had one hook
> with a T-handle. At least when I loaded hay those many years ago.
That's a hand hook for bundles or small square/round bales...
A double-hook similar to that shown was used often for loose hay in
lofts, loading/unloading wagons, etc. For that purpose it seems far to
small and I've not seen one w/ the ratchet mechanism, either.
> Nowadays it's giant round bales and a forklift, except for the local
> Mennonites and Amish who still load horse-drawn wagons and loaders with
> pitchforks.
And, of course, don't forget the 40 or 60-ft boom stacker... :)
Here most everbody simply uses a balefork on the tractor for moving just
a few. Almost everybody has gone to the 2T round here as well.
> Logging hooks are not usually big, at least not the handheld ones.
> There's a practical limit to how big a log a couple of loggers can lift.
That's why I made my guess...I'm thinking this one might have been used
w/ a team. (But what do I know--ain't no trees within 200 miles of
here... :) )
Fred R wrote:
>
> Regarding 447: Perhaps a clamping hook for pulling roots and smaller
> stumps in clearing farm land. Agree that it is much too small and heavy
> for a bale-grabber and too small for a loose-fodder fork, which more
> typically have an 'armspan' of 6 feet or more.
I'm thinking it was more like a "skidder" hence the latch mechanism?
Doesn't look tough enough to me for rough work such as the stump puller
although that's hard to judge from the picture--if knew how much it
weighed might help to judge.
Nick Müller wrote:
>
> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'll have to do a some research on this.
>
> What confuses me the most about that thing is: Where can you lift it.
> OK, there is the "release-lever", but not very solid. Between the two
> gears, there is some flat, that might have broken. But if this is where
> some kind of handle has been, it should point outwards not inwards.
> Or has this device been taken appart and back together wrong?
>
You see what I saw...I gave it up as the images are too indistinct for
my eyesight to really discern the mechanism clearly enough to decide
what was what...
If one had it in ones' hands, all would probably come clear...then you
could tell if something's broke and quite probably if it is incorrectly
assembled.
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>
...
> Thus, a pile of cannonballs and a rack say 4 feet on a side dropping in
> temperature from say 70 F to -20 F would have an overall differential
> length change of
>
> 4 * 12 * 4e-6 * 90 = 0.017"
>
> Now LLoyd, please tell the group what you think that rack must have
> looked like, and just how seventeen thou of change in a four foot long
> dimension made the balls fall off it.
...
Must have been those tight tolerances... :)
"Jeff Wisnia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So, I hereby declare you correct and resign from any further discussion of
> cannonballs and brass racks with you.
>
> Relish your victory, LLoyd.
I only said that's the story according to black powder historians. I can't
confirm it any other way than you can; either by duplicating the rig, or
theorizing why it would or wouldn't work.
But I never went off on a rant. Most people I know who rave like that are
ill or assholes.
(been takin' your pills?)
LLoyd
Regarding 447: Perhaps a clamping hook for pulling roots and smaller
stumps in clearing farm land. Agree that it is much too small and heavy
for a bale-grabber and too small for a loose-fodder fork, which more
typically have an 'armspan' of 6 feet or more.
--
Fred R
________________
Drop TROU to email.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You may want to read any of the 20 Patrick O'Brian novels to learn
> that shipboard artillery was not handled this way. Having done
> extensive research, he knew a little of what he was talking about and
> dealt with the subject fairly extensively in his books.
I already did know that. But triangular racks for dress did (and still do)
exist. Used for presentation, not battle.
LLoyd
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:21:13 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The stacks did become slack during extreme heat. The brass monkey became
>> looser. Only when it tightened excessively did the balls begin to roll
>> off.
>>
>> Keep in mind that a triangular pyramid stack of spheres is stable to +-60
>> degrees of roll. That's a heavy sea.
>>
>
>From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
>way:
>
>Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a "ball
>monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used today.
>"Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
>
>On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
>low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
>decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
>This, to ready the balls for quick access.
>
>Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
>within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
>cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
>brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
>
>Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of course, the
>vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
You may want to read any of the 20 Patrick O'Brian novels to learn
that shipboard artillery was not handled this way. Having done
extensive research, he knew a little of what he was talking about and
dealt with the subject fairly extensively in his books.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
"Jeff Wisnia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Without the spike parts I'd be tempted to say they had something to do
> with some very cold weather and two different size metallic monkeys. :-)
>
OK! You've done it now!
I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
This sort of fits into the "What is it? LXXVII" series.
LLoyd
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:32:58 -0500, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>>
>...
>
>> Thus, a pile of cannonballs and a rack say 4 feet on a side dropping in
>> temperature from say 70 F to -20 F would have an overall differential
>> length change of
>>
>> 4 * 12 * 4e-6 * 90 = 0.017"
>>
>> Now LLoyd, please tell the group what you think that rack must have
>> looked like, and just how seventeen thou of change in a four foot long
>> dimension made the balls fall off it.
>...
>
>Must have been those tight tolerances... :)
Tight as a female brass monkey's... ahh never mind.
George
I believe you got it correct, but the image is "upside down."
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Did you ever tell us fer sure what 436 is?
>
> Haven't been able to confirm what it is, here are the guesses so far:
>
> -static electricity dischargers
> -standard lightning rod balls and needles
>
> Rob
>
>
Each of the last two sets of photos has had an item that has not been
verified, but there have been numerous guesses. I would be interested to
know what the individuals here think the solutions to these two might be so
that I could post on the answer page the percentage or number of votes for
the most popular.
436. Brass balls with rods and wood frame, please choose just one of the
following:
1. static electricity dischargers/electrical experiments
2. puncture test tool
3. grandfather's clock mechanism
4. weights for the scales of justice
5. durometer, used to measure hardness/tester for finding the hardness of
optical pitch
6. spindle for paper/note holder
7. for making indentations in metal
8. standard lightning rod balls and needles
9. for gravity experiments
10. desk decoration, no practical function for it
-----
-----
-----
Before you vote on the next one, please take a look at the close-up of it at
the link below. It shows the bracket on the back, it looks like it could
possibly be mounted on a beam or some other structure. Also note the small
spring in the upper right that looks to serve as a cushion for the lever.
447. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album%203/pic447b.jpg
A. caliper
B. ice tongs
C. hay bale lifter
D. hook for small logs
E. loose hay lifter
F. clamping hook for pulling small stumps
G. wire/rope puller for tightening bundles or bales
If you would like to participate, please email the votes to me.
Rob
http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
"Matthew Russotto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>OK! You've done it now!
>>
>>I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
>>
>>WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
>
> Far as I know, all the explanations for this have been shot down.
> Brass monkey being used to hold iron canonballs among them.
Well, actually, brass monkeys were used to hold balls on deck, but for
presentation and inspection, not for "ready shot".
I'll agree with the rantings of one poster who cited the relative expansion
coefficients of brass and iron, that it doesn't look like contraction alone
could do it.
(I don't contend this is right, but) The common anecdote has the trivets
forged. What if they were cast in one piece? What about possible
embrittlement of cast brass at low temperatures? If a cast brass trivet
were heavily secured at its apexes (apices?) to a deck that tends to rack
and twist somewhat (as all wooden ships do), and the temperature dropped to,
say, -20F, what might happen to the mechanical integrity of the brass?
Would it crack?
LLoyd
"Mark Brader" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lloyd Sponenburgh writes:
>>>> I know this trivia ... but most don't.
>
> That's what you think.
>
>>>> WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
>
> The answer is that if this phrase ever referred to anything specific,
> it's no longer known for sure.
Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
LLoyd
In article <[email protected]>,
Gary Brady <[email protected]> wrote:
>447. Frog grab
The vent core?
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
"Nick Müller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h2b8oc.505w571vd0hd2N%[email protected]...
> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 436. Brass balls with rods and wood frame, please choose just one of
the
> > following:
>
> Still an open question:
> How do the upper ends of the needles/rods look like? Is there a hole or
> whatever?
I'll email the owner and ask him.
> And also please note:
> If you pull up the lever on the right, the thing will _open_. So if you
> want to lift something up, you would have to press it down. Not the most
> clever way, nor not?
> So this device is not for lifting anything. IMHO, if you want. :-)
Good point, I'm starting to like the release mechanism idea more.
Rob
> 447. I've seen these hanging on the top rail of hay barns. I don't
> know what they are , but seems small for picking up loose hay. I
> always envisioned them as some kind of release hook system. As kids
> we use to go to a lot of barns to play tag in wherein you couldn't
> touch the floor. It's amazing no one ever got seriously hurt.
Sounds like a good possibility, someone posted a similar idea on my site:
"This is quite possibly a release mechanism for a drop door on an old farm
dump wagon.
The T like casting would be fastened to the side. The handle is offset to
allow clearance for your hand when operating."
I'll have to do a some research on this.
Rob
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Matthew Russotto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>OK! You've done it now!
> >>
> >>I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
> >>
> >>WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
> >
> > Far as I know, all the explanations for this have been shot down.
> > Brass monkey being used to hold iron canonballs among them.
>
> Well, actually, brass monkeys were used to hold balls on deck, but for
> presentation and inspection, not for "ready shot".
>
> I'll agree with the rantings of one poster who cited the relative expansion
> coefficients of brass and iron, that it doesn't look like contraction alone
> could do it.
>
> (I don't contend this is right, but) The common anecdote has the trivets
> forged. What if they were cast in one piece? What about possible
> embrittlement of cast brass at low temperatures? If a cast brass trivet
> were heavily secured at its apexes (apices?) to a deck that tends to rack
> and twist somewhat (as all wooden ships do), and the temperature dropped to,
> say, -20F, what might happen to the mechanical integrity of the brass?
> Would it crack?
No.
Come on..."cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" is a
figure of speech, not an engineering report. And I bet the original
reference, now lost in pre-history, was to a brass statue of a monkey.
Joe Gwinn
Joe Gwinn
"Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> I only said that's the story according to black powder historians.
>
> And their names are.....?
>
> HINT: The earliest known reference to "brass monkey" was in 1857, and
> it had nothing to do with cannons. The phrase was "freeze the tail of
> a brass monkey."
>
> p.s. Mark gave you references to look at, which you ignored.
>
No I didn't. I even concurred with him in another post. Don't accuse me of
being casual about your opinions unless you at least pay attention.
LLoyd
"Larry Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
>>
>> WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
>
> OK...here's my take on the expression (but I may be wrong....lol).
>
> I grew up in the UK and at one time it was very common to see 'brass
> monkeys' sitting either on the mantelpieces above a fireplace or in the
> hearth depending on the size. I have seen them range in size from solid
> brass ones at about 1" tall to hollow brass ones about 12" tall and they
> are always cast as a single piece.
Nope. But it does have something to do with balls. <G>
LS
"DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 4) So -- over that range of temperatures:
> the brass would expand 100 x 18.50e-6 x 24 = 0.037"
> the bronze would expand 100 x 21.16e-6 x 24 = 0.051"
> the CI would expand 100 x 11.20e-6 x 24 = 0.027"
>
> or a total of 0.024" difference in size -- about 1/40th of an
> inch, one turn of your micrometer thimble, which is hardly
> likely to be enough to nudge any of the balls out of their
> pockets.
Not to mention the balls are most likely made of cast iron, only further
negating the shrinkage (though sudden changes could maybe leave the monkey
colder than the balls for a few hours).
Tim
--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Bruce Barnett wrote:
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>"Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I only said that's the story according to black powder historians.
>>>
>>>And their names are.....?
>>>
>>>HINT: The earliest known reference to "brass monkey" was in 1857, and
>>>it had nothing to do with cannons. The phrase was "freeze the tail of
>>>a brass monkey."
>>>
>>>p.s. Mark gave you references to look at, which you ignored.
>>>
>>
>>No I didn't. I even concurred with him in another post. Don't accuse me of
>>being casual about your opinions unless you at least pay attention.
>
>
> Let's go though this, since you claim I wasn't paying attention..
>
> Mark said
>
>>Lloyd needs to read these references:
>>
>> <http://www.worldwidewords.org/ qa/qa-bra1.htm>
>> <http://www.snopes.com/language /stories/brass.htm>
>
>
> You said
>
>>[snip] it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
>
>
> Mark said:
>
>
>>Go on, then. Prove it.
>
>
> You said:
>
>>From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
>
>>way:
>>
>
> [snip]
>
>>On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
>>low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
>>decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
>>This, to ready the balls for quick access.
>
>
>>Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
>>within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
>>cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
>>brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
>
>
> Mark replied:
>
>
>>I said *prove* it. I have already posted cites refuting this answer.
>
>
>
> To summarize, Mark posted some specific references that clearly give
> evidence that your etymology is not "definite" but an urban
> legend. You read them, (as you just claimed) yet you persisted in
> stating that there is a definite etymology that disagrees with those
> references.
>
> And when challenged, you refer to some "black powder historians" that
> have no names, and no document, and no web site to back up those facts.
>
> When did I not pay attention? Please correct me....
>
I'm really beginning to feel guilty about getting all this started with
what I intended as just a silly jest about the brass balls on the "What
is it" Item 436.
If SWMBO perchanced to read this thread she'd no doubt voice her disgust
by calling all of us "Tech Tools", which is what she calls me when I
perseverate endlessly about some inconsequential subject. :-)
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The stacks did become slack during extreme heat. The brass monkey became
>>looser. Only when it tightened excessively did the balls begin to roll
>>off.
>>
>>Keep in mind that a triangular pyramid stack of spheres is stable to +-60
>>degrees of roll. That's a heavy sea.
>>
>
>
> From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
> way:
>
> Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a "ball
> monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used today.
> "Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
>
> On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
> low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
> decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
> This, to ready the balls for quick access.
>
> Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
> within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
> cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
> brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
>
> Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of course, the
> vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
>
> LLoyd
>
>
>
>
>
LLoyd,
The thermal coeficients of expansion are:
Brass: 11*10^-6 in/in/deg F
Iron: 7*10^-6 in/in/deg F
The differential is 4*10^-6 in/in/deg F
Thus, a pile of cannonballs and a rack say 4 feet on a side dropping in
temperature from say 70 F to -20 F would have an overall differential
length change of
4 * 12 * 4e-6 * 90 = 0.017"
Now LLoyd, please tell the group what you think that rack must have
looked like, and just how seventeen thou of change in a four foot long
dimension made the balls fall off it.
I have learned that the only person who is a bigger fool than one who is
wrong and can't see it.....is that person who continues to debate him.
So, I hereby declare you correct and resign from any further discussion
of cannonballs and brass racks with you.
Relish your victory, LLoyd.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
Norman D. Crow wrote:
> ""Nick Müller"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1h27md5.113asd79ou0faN%[email protected]...
>
>>R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>
>>#443: Hammer for body work, sheet metal work
>>#444: Tool for pressing/forming caps onto small bottles. Like vaccine
>>bottles etc.
>>#445: for folding paper. "Scribe" a groove into paper, then bend it
>>along that groove.
>>#447: some kind of quick caliper?
>>
>
>
> 442 Stud or bolt remover
>
437 dowel rod
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The stacks did become slack during extreme heat. The brass monkey became
> looser. Only when it tightened excessively did the balls begin to roll
> off.
>
> Keep in mind that a triangular pyramid stack of spheres is stable to +-60
> degrees of roll. That's a heavy sea.
>
From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
way:
Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a "ball
monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used today.
"Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
This, to ready the balls for quick access.
Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of course, the
vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
LLoyd
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in =
message news:[email protected]...
|=20
| "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in =
message=20
| news:[email protected]...
| >
| > The stacks did become slack during extreme heat. The brass monkey =
became=20
| > looser. Only when it tightened excessively did the balls begin to =
roll=20
| > off.
| >
| > Keep in mind that a triangular pyramid stack of spheres is stable to =
+-60=20
| > degrees of roll. That's a heavy sea.
| >
|=20
| From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story =
comes this
| way:
|=20
| Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a =
"ball
| monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used =
today.
| "Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
|=20
| On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass =
racks -
| low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
| decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid =
fashion.
| This, to ready the balls for quick access.
|=20
| Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks =
made
| within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, =
very
| cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion =
between
| brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
|=20
| Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of =
course, the
| vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
|=20
| LLoyd
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=20
Further to all the above, take a look at this:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm
--=20
PDQ
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A new set of photos has been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
442 - a bit?
443 - hammer for roof nails?
444 - used for sealing a bottle cork?
445 - glass cutter?
446 - ice tray?
447 - calipers for measuring horse hoof size?
""Nick Müller"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h27md5.113asd79ou0faN%[email protected]...
> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
> #443: Hammer for body work, sheet metal work
> #444: Tool for pressing/forming caps onto small bottles. Like vaccine
> bottles etc.
> #445: for folding paper. "Scribe" a groove into paper, then bend it
> along that groove.
> #447: some kind of quick caliper?
>
442 Stud or bolt remover
--
Nahmie
The greatest headaches are those we cause ourselves.
"R.H." <[email protected]> writes in article <[email protected]> dated Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:06:52 GMT:
>A new set of photos has been posted:
>
>http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
436 looks like a fancy spindle.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
On 01/09/2005 6:06 AM, R.H. wrote:
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
442. industrial hemorrhoid remover
443. autobody repair hammer
444. shotgun shell crimper
445. carpenter's marking/striking knife
446. some sort of alcohol burner?
447. log/timber carrier, maybe block ice carrier - handle is for
releasing the grip
On 01/09/2005 2:19 PM, Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Can't get much of a feel for the overall size as I have no idea what the
> 19" dimension is in reference to, but I'm thinking it looks more like a
> light logging hook than for hay purposes.
>
> But, hey, who knows what them crazy Canadians did, eh? :)
Heyyyy, I resemble that remark!
I agree, too small for a hay hook, which typically only had one hook
with a T-handle. At least when I loaded hay those many years ago.
Nowadays it's giant round bales and a forklift, except for the local
Mennonites and Amish who still load horse-drawn wagons and loaders with
pitchforks.
Logging hooks are not usually big, at least not the handheld ones.
There's a practical limit to how big a log a couple of loggers can lift.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fred R wrote:
>>
>> Regarding 447: Perhaps a clamping hook for pulling roots and smaller
>> stumps in clearing farm land. Agree that it is much too small and heavy
>> for a bale-grabber and too small for a loose-fodder fork, which more
>> typically have an 'armspan' of 6 feet or more.
>
> I'm thinking it was more like a "skidder" hence the latch mechanism?
>
> Doesn't look tough enough to me for rough work such as the stump puller
> although that's hard to judge from the picture--if knew how much it
> weighed might help to judge.
I agree! Puller for thornbrush, small stumps, etc. we used was more like a
pair of scissors, made of 1/2" thick steel with short chains attached to
handle ends & a ring where you hooked the pull chain.
--
Nahmie
The greatest headaches are those we cause ourselves.
Jeff Wisnia <[email protected]> writes:
> Thus, a pile of cannonballs and a rack say 4 feet on a side dropping
> in temperature from say 70 F to -20 F would have an overall
> differential length change of
>
> 4 * 12 * 4e-6 * 90 = 0.017"
How much movement would a pile of "one deep" have? :-)
Cannon shot was not stored in piles, but in "shot garlands" which
were planks with a row of holes.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
> I only said that's the story according to black powder historians.
And their names are.....?
HINT: The earliest known reference to "brass monkey" was in 1857, and
it had nothing to do with cannons. The phrase was "freeze the tail of
a brass monkey."
p.s. Mark gave you references to look at, which you ignored.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
According to Gareth Owen <[email protected]>:
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
>
> The story I've heard is that it refers (in some way I could never
> figure) to cannonballs and powder monkeys on Naval ships.
I was afraid that this was where this was leading. :-)
> I don't believe this though ... it has a certain aura of
> implausibility to it, and just *feels* like a back-formation.
> I've certainly never seen convinving evidence of it.
If you want support, try this URL:
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm
Snopes makes a career out of investigating urban legends, determining
the truth or falsehood of each one, and has set up an excellent website
covering them. This is the sub-page dealing with this particular one.
One facet which he does not cover is the actual difference in
the thermal expansion rates for brass and cast iron.
First off -- bronze would be more likely at sea than brass, but
I'll list both:
18.50e-6/deg C Brass, ordinary yellow
21.16e-6/deg C Admiralty bronze
11.20e-6/deg C Cast Iron, gray
Now -- let's make some assumptions about the size of the
supposed "brass monkey", and the range of temperatures covered by a ship
from tropics to arctic sailing conditions:
1) Low temperature is perhaps on the order of -50F. Below that,
the sea would tend to freeze over, even short term.
2) High temperature is perhaps on the order of 120F.
For a range of 170F, or 94.44 C. (Let's call it 100 C for
convenience.
3) Let's say that the "brass monkey" was 24" maximum dimension
(and the stack of cannonballs would have to be somewhat smaller,
but let's call it identical for convenience.)
4) So -- over that range of temperatures:
the brass would expand 100 x 18.50e-6 x 24 = 0.037"
the bronze would expand 100 x 21.16e-6 x 24 = 0.051"
the CI would expand 100 x 11.20e-6 x 24 = 0.027"
or a total of 0.024" difference in size -- about 1/40th of an
inch, one turn of your micrometer thimble, which is hardly
likely to be enough to nudge any of the balls out of their
pockets.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
> "Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> I only said that's the story according to black powder historians.
>>
>> And their names are.....?
>>
>> HINT: The earliest known reference to "brass monkey" was in 1857, and
>> it had nothing to do with cannons. The phrase was "freeze the tail of
>> a brass monkey."
>>
>> p.s. Mark gave you references to look at, which you ignored.
>>
> No I didn't. I even concurred with him in another post. Don't accuse me of
> being casual about your opinions unless you at least pay attention.
Let's go though this, since you claim I wasn't paying attention..
Mark said
>Lloyd needs to read these references:
>
> <http://www.worldwidewords.org/ qa/qa-bra1.htm>
> <http://www.snopes.com/language /stories/brass.htm>
You said
>[snip] it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
Mark said:
>Go on, then. Prove it.
You said:
>From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
>way:
>
[snip]
>On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
>low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
>decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
>This, to ready the balls for quick access.
>Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
>within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
>cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
>brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
Mark replied:
>I said *prove* it. I have already posted cites refuting this answer.
To summarize, Mark posted some specific references that clearly give
evidence that your etymology is not "definite" but an urban
legend. You read them, (as you just claimed) yet you persisted in
stating that there is a definite etymology that disagrees with those
references.
And when challenged, you refer to some "black powder historians" that
have no names, and no document, and no web site to back up those facts.
When did I not pay attention? Please correct me....
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
Sam Soltan wrote:
> I believe you got it correct, but the image is "upside down."
But why the nice wood stand?
Maybe a store display for a place which sold such things?
And presented upside down to reduce the chances of ripping someone's
clothes or flesh?
(It's hard for even me to believe what I just wrote.)
Without the spike parts I'd be tempted to say they had something to do
with some very cold weather and two different size metallic monkeys. :-)
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
"Gareth Owen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
>
> The story I've heard is that it refers (in some way I could never
> figure) to cannonballs and powder monkeys on Naval ships.
From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story comes this
way:
Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a "ball
monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still used today.
"Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
On board most armed ships of the British fleet were triangular brass racks -
low bars of brass forged into an equilateral triangle - mounted to the
decks, into which to stack cannon balls in the familiar pyramid fashion.
This, to ready the balls for quick access.
Although the "brass monkeys" were only an inch or two high, the stacks made
within them were quite stable -- until the temperature dropped very, very
cold. At that point, due to different coefficients of expansion between
brass and iron, the balls came tumbling off their racks.
Thus, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey". Of course, the
vulgar connotations came quite soon after. <G>
LLoyd
"Jeff Wisnia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That one is pure bull shite. It claimed that the racks the pyramids of
> cannonballs were stacked on were made of brass and called "brass monkeys".
> The story goes that differential thermal contraction in cold weather would
> be enough to make the balls fall off them. No mention of why they wouldn't
> fall off in hot weather from the motions of a rolling
The stacks did become slack during extreme heat. The brass monkey became
looser. Only when it tightened excessively did the balls begin to roll off.
Keep in mind that a triangular pyramid stack of spheres is stable to +-60
degrees of roll. That's a heavy sea.
LLoyd
> Did you ever tell us fer sure what 436 is?
Haven't been able to confirm what it is, here are the guesses so far:
-note holder
-static electricity dischargers
-puncture test tool
-grandfather's clock mechanism
-weights for the scales of justice
-for electrical experiments
-durometer
-tester for finding the hardness of optical pitch
-spindle for paper
-for making indentations in metal
-standard lightning rod balls and needles
-for gravity experiments
-desk decoration
Rob
446. Is for making ice cubes from sheet ice. Fill the top with
hot/warm water to warm the fins. The weight and heat cut down
into the sheet ice making cubes.
(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A new set of photos has been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
Five of the six have been answered correctly, still looking to confirm the
last one:
442. Easy-out
443. Raising hammer, for metal work
444. Shotgun shell reloader
445. Knife eraser
446. Ice cube maker
447. Haven't yet verified any of the guesses for this one.
A little more info can be found on the answer page:
http://pzphotosan80.blogspot.com/
Rob
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jeff Wisnia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Without the spike parts I'd be tempted to say they had something to
do
> > with some very cold weather and two different size metallic monkeys.
:-)
> >
>
> OK! You've done it now!
>
> I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
>
> WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
>
Means about the same as "freezing the nuts off a tractor" when you live
up north :)
In article <[email protected]>,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>OK! You've done it now!
>
>I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
>
>WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
Far as I know, all the explanations for this have been shot down.
Brass monkey being used to hold iron canonballs among them.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
> Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
The story I've heard is that it refers (in some way I could never
figure) to cannonballs and powder monkeys on Naval ships.
I don't believe this though ... it has a certain aura of
implausibility to it, and just *feels* like a back-formation.
I've certainly never seen convinving evidence of it.
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
> From the rather small niche of black powder historians, the story
> comes this way:
>
> Anyone who physically handled cannon balls or powder was known as a
> "ball monkey" or "powder monkey". The term "powder monkey" is still
> used today. "Ball monkey" seems to have been lost.
And where is this etymology traced from?
If you can find me a single contemporary citation, I'll believe you,
but until then, I still say "back formation"
Gareth Owen <[email protected]> writes:
> And where is this etymology traced from?
> If you can find me a single contemporary citation, I'll believe you,
> but until then, I still say "back formation"
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm
Gareth Owen wrote:
> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Nope, it has a quite definite etymology, but a rather exotic one.
>
>
> The story I've heard is that it refers (in some way I could never
> figure) to cannonballs and powder monkeys on Naval ships.
>
> I don't believe this though ... it has a certain aura of
> implausibility to it, and just *feels* like a back-formation.
> I've certainly never seen convinving evidence of it.
That one is pure bull shite. It claimed that the racks the pyramids of
cannonballs were stacked on were made of brass and called "brass
monkeys". The story goes that differential thermal contraction in cold
weather would be enough to make the balls fall off them. No mention of
why they wouldn't fall off in hot weather from the motions of a rolling
ship. Hah!
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Five of the six have been answered correctly, still looking to confirm
the
> last one:
>
>
>
>
>
> 442. Easy-out
>
> 443. Raising hammer, for metal work
>
> 444. Shotgun shell reloader
>
> 445. Knife eraser
>
> 446. Ice cube maker
>
> 447. Haven't yet verified any of the guesses for this one.
>
>
> A little more info can be found on the answer page:
>
> http://pzphotosan80.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
>
>
It looks similar to calipers used for measuring skulls sizes
> From the description, I'm having trouble
> picturing how that device would work.
>
> Does it "cut out ice cubes" from the block
> of ice that it sits upon? If so, where is
> the hot water held? Sorry if I'm not
> seeing the obvious.
In the second photo, notice the plugged hole on the left, that's where the
hot water goes. If you look in the first picture you'll notice that the
bottom of the cube tray is just past the holes on the side, so there is an
inch or two of room below the tray to hold the water.
http://pzphotosan80.blogspot.com/
Rob
On 9/6/05 7:27 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> "Jeff Wisnia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Without the spike parts I'd be tempted to say they had something to do
>>with some very cold weather and two different size metallic monkeys. :-)
>>
>
>
> OK! You've done it now!
>
> I know this trivia (being in the explosives industry), but most don't.
>
> WHAT does it mean to "freeze the balls off a brass monkey"?
>
> This sort of fits into the "What is it? LXXVII" series.
>
> LLoyd
>
OK...here's my take on the expression (but I may be wrong....lol).
I grew up in the UK and at one time it was very common to see 'brass
monkeys' sitting either on the mantelpieces above a fireplace or in the
hearth depending on the size. I have seen them range in size from solid
brass ones at about 1" tall to hollow brass ones about 12" tall and they
are always cast as a single piece.
In every example I saw the monkeys are sitting on their haunches, knees
up, and are either sitting in a straight line or in a slight curve. Each
of the monkeys has his hands in a classic pose and they are named
according to that pose. One will have his hands over his eyes and is
known as 'See No Evil', the second will have his hands over his ears and
is known as 'Hear No Evil' while the third has his hands over his mouth
and is known as 'Speak No Evil'. It is my belief that they date
originally from the pre-Victorian era (possibly of Japanese origin)and
represent a lesson in morality i.e. a person of decent morals will
neither see no evil, hear no evil nor speak no evil.
Now, it is very common in the UK for a well known phrase, expression or
myth to become plagiarized and develop a whole new meaning. It is quite
possible that this has happened in this case. If you consider the
sitting positions of the monkeys their testicles would have been in
contact with, or very close to, the ground (if they were sitting outside
on the ground of course). In very cold weather that would have left them
frozen (possibly to the ground)and if the monkeys were to stand up they
could have left their testicles behind. Hence the phrase 'Cold enough to
freeze the balls off a brass monkey'.
Some examples of the monkeys can be found in the links below (some of
which also point to a Japanese origin).
http://www.aogiftshop.com/images/31164.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/bs4ey
www.oldcopper.org/three_wise_monkeys.htm
--
Larry Green
In article <[email protected]>,
R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>A new set of photos has been posted:
442. Broken drill bit
443. Sheet metal tool, perhaps. Set the ball end against the piece
being worked and strike the other end of the head with a mallet.
444. I'd guess it clamps to a bench and something gets turned.
Possibly the piece with a longer handle isn't actaually part of it.
445. Used for scribing designs in wood.
446. Defective ice cube tray
447. Part of a crane, used for picking up the new apprentice by the
shirt.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.