Norm could learn from David

Lazarus Long wrote:
> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
> Marks work is better.
>
> I've built some of Norm's stuff. The projects look good and have been
> very useful.
>
> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
> creative. And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.
>
> What do you think?

I think Norm is selling power tools, so that might have something to do with
using them.

I have to agree. It's nice if a project looks great and is fully functional
too, but if I had to pick one over the over, functionality would easily come
first over visual aesthetics.

"Bannerstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They're both very inspiring hosts, if I had to give one a little edge it
would
> be Norm for his projects being more in line with the types of projects his
> viewers would like to attempt.

>> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
>> Marks work is better.
>>
>> I've built some of Norm's stuff. The projects look good and have been
>> very useful.
>>
>> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
>> creative. And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
>> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
>> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.
>>
>> What do you think?

I tend to like David's stuff better too, but it's just personal opinion.
My roots are as a designer (my day-job is a web designer) so it's just
natural for me to lean towards the more studio-style designs. Plus I love
his use of exotic woods, which isn't everyone's preference, but I love it.

I just saw the tail end of the show with the bubinga mirror, I can't wait
until it's repeated on Saturday, which is when I usually tape his show.

david
--
So, we've got Uday and Qusay. Now, how about the Eapons-way of Ass-may
Estruction-day?

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:19:24 GMT, Joe Wells <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Take a look at www.djmarks.com. You'll find that David really is an
>artist. As in, he has pieces showing in a number of galleries, has won
>awards, and has participated in many exhibitions.

I've seen his site, haven't fully explored everything there yet.

>After looking at the pieces on his site, I now know that he's actually
>simplifying many things for his television audience. Which is fine. I'm
>sure it's difficult to come up with useful, aesthetically pleasing projects
>who's construction can be demonstrated in a half-hour show.

NYW simplifies too. Both shows are only 1/2 hour.


>As far as David's tools go, he comforably bounces from one extreme to
>another. From cutting out a huge template on his bandsawrus to using a
>simple hand scraper. He even sells his own multirouter for making various
>joints. He certainly isn't shy about using the monster machines he has
>at his command, but yes, he probably uses hand tools more often than Norm.

No problem there. Power tools for the grunt work (stock preparation)
hand tools to finesse things together.

I think power tools are great. I just don't think they're all that's
needed.

I think they are two totally different individuals. Neither of them
make projects that are even remotely close to each other. Norm is making
shaker inspired furniture blended with modern manufacture and such while
David is making pieces you would call, well "pieces". Stuff you would
see in a high end art show or work you would see in and from people who
have attended art school. Both have there merrits, I tend to like Norm
better mainly because I am a carpenter by trade and thats how he started
and still is, however I dont really like anything Norm makes other
than perhaps his garden stuff. I like Norms tact of trying to meld old
world quality and details with the newer time and labor saving tools and
equipment. While he seems to go to one side or the other alot I
appreciate the shows attempt to blend the two. I also like the fact that
due to his background Norm has a real grasp of mechanics.
That said, I like Davids style and choice of projects far better (other
than the exotic woods, they are not my thing) but I dont like Davids
personality as well. Given I only know what I know of him from TV thats
nothing to make a judgement on.
I have to admit that I am bias as I have spent a bit of time in art
school and I really tend to despise "arty" people who over analyze every
little detail and take themselves and their work way too seriously. My
impression is that this is the world David comes from but he, and good
for him, didnt seem to get the snooty side of it which is probably why
he is on TV. When I was in art school the wood departments always seemed
to be the most grounded and had the least amount of "art fags" of all
the departments but they were there none the less. They sure made some
neet stuff, but I would put a 9mm between my lips if I had to spend any
time with them.

Mark

Lazarus Long wrote:
> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
> Marks work is better.
>
> I've built some of Norm's stuff. The projects look good and have been
> very useful.
>
> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
> creative. And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.
>
> What do you think?

David O wrote:

> Be kind! Artsy-fartsy folk are people too, ya know :-)

Well I have to be kind, my wife and I have just retired from the
building trade at 35 to make our living at out part time pottery
business, so we "are" artsy fartsy. We both worked full time in the
building and remodeling trade until last year when we decided it was
time to move on.
This I why I think I really like both of the people in questions work
but tend to like Norms grasp of real world mechanics better and I really
like Davids grasp of beauty and grace. Its like a Lion and a Gazelle.
I couldnt agree more with the other post saying that the perfect union
would be one building the house and the other furnishing, that woudl be
a sight to see.

Mark

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:46:50 -0500, Lazarus Long wrote:

> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
> creative.

Take a look at www.djmarks.com. You'll find that David really is an
artist. As in, he has pieces showing in a number of galleries, has won
awards, and has participated in many exhibitions.

> And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.

After looking at the pieces on his site, I now know that he's actually
simplifying many things for his television audience. Which is fine. I'm
sure it's difficult to come up with useful, aesthetically pleasing projects
who's construction can be demonstrated in a half-hour show.

As far as David's tools go, he comforably bounces from one extreme to
another. From cutting out a huge template on his bandsawrus to using a
simple hand scraper. He even sells his own multirouter for making various
joints. He certainly isn't shy about using the monster machines he has
at his command, but yes, he probably uses hand tools more often than Norm.

--
Joe Wells

I didn't thing I'd said anything wrong about Norm. Norm's show among
other things got me interested in WW. I still watch every episode.
The result of efforts are always well made pieces of work. And I've
certainly put some money in his pocket by buying a plan or two.

All I'm saying is that there's room for a bit of style and there are
some situations that a hand tool is a better/easier choice than a
power tool.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:08:32 GMT, "Steve" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Lazarus Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
>> Marks work is better.
>>
><snip>
>
>> What do you think?
>
>I think you better look over your shoulder. LRod is going to get you
>for bad mouthing his hero.
>

"Lazarus Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
> Marks work is better.
>
<snip>

> What do you think?

I think you better look over your shoulder. LRod is going to get you
for bad mouthing his hero.

Is this David Marks show on in Canada?


"Lazarus Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
> Marks work is better.
>
> I've built some of Norm's stuff. The projects look good and have been
> very useful.
>
> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
> creative. And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.
>
> What do you think?

On Tue 05 Aug 2003 12:27:25p, Bannerstone
<[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I can't see the purpose in comparing them.

The sci fi groups have the "Predator vs Terminator" threads, we've got Dave
and Norm. A discussion comparing them is not only certain, it's certain to
happen time and time again.

And it has. :-)

Personally I watch the shows for tips. Joinery, prep, materials, tools,
jigmaking, whatever. I've used what I learned from both of 'em on my
projects. And I like comparing the different methods both of them take to
do basically the same things.

I might do one of David's projects, though. SWMBO wants a headboard and we
both liked the look of the one David made. I just checked and I'm all out
of 8/4 and veneer mahogany, so I'll have to make do with some South
American walnut for the panels and American walnut for the heavy stock.
It's the spirit of the thing that counts. :-)

Just five or six more "dothisfirst" projects, and I can start on it. I've
already started stocking up on Tung Oil.

Dan

Mark & Shauna <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I think they are two totally different individuals.

Couldn't agree more! One is a master carpenter, while the other, a
furniture/woodturning artisan. Ideally, one would have Norm build
their home and have David make the funishings...big bucks there!

>but I dont like Davids personality as well.<

Any long-haired hippy freak (had to cut his hair for the show, I
suppose) that rides a Harley is A.O.K in my book...


> I have to admit that I am bias as I have spent a bit of time in
art
> school and I really tend to despise "arty" people who over
analyze every
> little detail and take themselves and their work way too
seriously.



Be kind! Artsy-fartsy folk are people too, ya know :-)

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:16:24 +0000, Mark & Shauna wrote:

> That said, I like Davids style and choice of projects far better (other
> than the exotic woods, they are not my thing) but I dont like Davids
> personality as well. Given I only know what I know of him from TV thats
> nothing to make a judgement on.

I thought David was kinda uptight around the camera when I first started
watching. Then I saw the show where he goes out to various locations to
show viewers how to select and buy wood. He's a completely different
person when talking to someone directly. Especially if it's about wood! So
I don't think he's quite comfortable in front of the camera yet.

--
Joe Wells

I don't think it's so much a matter of skill, i.e. one better than the
other. Rather they have different goals. Marks makes works of art, very fine
pieces of furniture you'd display in your formal living room. His show seems
to target the more advanced wood worker (or at least intermediate) and
projects seem to be a bit more time consuming and expensive.

Norm makes more practical, every day use stuff you'd put in the family room.
Also, Norm's projects seems to more target the beginner or intermediate
worker, and could be done in a brief period of time and lower budget.

Each guy just makes different stuff, targeted at different audiences. I like
'em both, and learn a lot from both.

Robert

"Lazarus Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm more impressed every time I see Woodworks. Norm's good, but David
> Marks work is better.
>
> I've built some of Norm's stuff. The projects look good and have been
> very useful.
>
> David's stuff is at a level above Norms. Much more artistic &
> creative. And very clever at getting things together, like the carved
> bubinga mirror just on DIY this week. And he used HANDTOOLS,
> something that Norm seems to actively disdain.
>
> What do you think?

Is this why I don't get to see Roy Underhill anymore?
Doesn't delta sell a treadle lathe or a line of froes that Roy could hawk?

I'm thinking that they could have an X5 branded used-hacksaw blade that
could be used to make a right angle saw or start selling the UniStick(tm), a
prime piece of green hickory.

-Jack



"Lazarus Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> yeah, he sells power tools if one takes the view that this is a 1/2
> hour long commercial. It's more than that, I think.
>
> There are manufacturers selling hand tools too. There must be some
> overlap between the people that buy hand tools and the people that buy
> power tools. Perhaps some embellishments could be done to NYW
> projects that demand a hand tool, like a spokeshave. Not just any
> spokeshave, but a Lie-Nielsen spokeshave. And so on.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> >
> >I think Norm is selling power tools, so that might have something to do
with
> >using them.
> >
>

"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have I acquired a reputation?
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net

You should, it's a cool site! Just wondering, have you done any projects
specifically targeted towards use in amateur radio?

73's

Robert / N4IXT

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:35:13 -0700, "JackD" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Is this why I don't get to see Roy Underhill anymore?
>Doesn't delta sell a treadle lathe or a line of froes that Roy could hawk?

Is his show still happening? haven't seen it in ages. Maybe he got
caught in one of those pump-organ lathes and got ground to death or
something.


- -

DL

http://www.geocities.com/dicklong14_ca/fanclub.htm

>> Evidently your buddy Cedeño is a bastard.
>>
>
>First of all, Cedeño is not my buddy.

::::::::::::::::

"Ahh, job hunt. Had an interview this week and all
I learned is this: Despite its name,
the company "Johnson Controls" does not manufacture condoms."
- Anonymous

::::::::::::::::

Halter Sucks!

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:12:41 -0500, "Robert C. Cain"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Norm makes more practical, every day use stuff you'd put in the family room.
>Also, Norm's projects seems to more target the beginner or intermediate
>worker, and could be done in a brief period of time and lower budget.

Maybe this is the root of why Mr. Mark's impresses me more. The
beginner level stuff gets covered a lot in various programs but more
advanced things don't get the same.

>
>Each guy just makes different stuff, targeted at different audiences. I like
>'em both, and learn a lot from both.
>
> Robert
>

On 05 Aug 2003 14:52:15 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:

>Charlie Self
>
>"The California crunch really is the result of not enough power-generating
>plants and then not enough power to power the power of generating plants."
>George W. Bush

Charlie, fess up. You make this shit up, don't ya?

Michael Baglio
Chapel Hill

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:08:04 GMT, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If you think that makes things "better," less power to ya.

A bit more style, more design makes things nicer. I didn't say
there's anything wrong with Norm's projects. It's just that David's
are more attractive.

>Personally, I make what I like with what I have at hand and know how to use.

I too make what I like while at the same time stretch a bit and make
things that require me to learn something. A trip to the lumberyard
is usually necessary too.

>
>Copying anyone's work (you copying Marks') is neither original or creative.

Of course you work exclusively from your own designs.

And I've yet to make anything I've seen on Woodworks. I just like it
more.

I earn my living as a designer (not wood things). Very seldom have I
built something from a plan without modifying said plan.

It doesn't take very much to be functional. "It" (the project) should
also look nice. Otherwise stacks of orange crates could also do a
nice job holding the LP collection. Just an observation.



On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:58:19 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I have to agree. It's nice if a project looks great and is fully functional
>too, but if I had to pick one over the over, functionality would easily come
>first over visual aesthetics.
>
>"Bannerstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> They're both very inspiring hosts, if I had to give one a little edge it
>would
>> be Norm for his projects being more in line with the types of projects his
>> viewers would like to attempt.
>
>

"Bannerstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't see the purpose in comparing them.
>
> They're both very inspiring hosts, if I had to give one a little edge it
would
> be Norm for his projects being more in line with the types of projects his
> viewers would like to attempt.

I agree totally. Marks is how heading in another direction toward metal
crafting. You only have to look at his website.

http://www.djmarks.com

I'm kinda heading that way too somewhat.....

Larry

--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home1.gte.net/llhote/
http://home.mchsi.com/~llhote