Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his way
to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He comes up
with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good for? It looks
a lot like gorilla glue.
--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Always drink upstream from the herd. And,
If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then
to make sure it's still there.
Jerry© The Phoneman®
Tim Taylor wrote:
> "Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > From Google:
> > Hide glue, properly used, forms a strong and long-lasting bond. It was the
> > most common woodworking glue for thousands of years
>
> Ok, that works for me. So I'm guessing it should be ok to use on the walnut.
> I just never used it before and don't want to ruin these boards.
It is a great glue, but not for outdoor use. They still use it in many
industries. For making musical instruments, for example, where joints
may have to be disassembled for repair some day.
CW wrote:
> And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons were
> used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as the
> glue was weak.
Dovetails are used because they're self-supporting without glue, but
this is because hide glue is short-lived, not because it's weak. A
good hide-glued joint (like a rubbed joint) is as strong as many
timbers. Most draw-bored tenons aren't even glued, certainly in
anything bigger than a chair stretcher.
Hide glue's _huge_ advantage is that the joint can last a thousand
years with appropriate repairs every couple of centuries. One dose of
glue might not, but the bond is reversible and it's pretty easy to take
a piece apart to reglue it without damage. Try that with a modern glue!
Just look at the amount of unfastening and refastening work that goes
on with top-end violins and is regarded as almost commonplace
maintenance.
Oh, and modern glues don't last forever either. Look at the problems
with those synthetics that leach out acid, those (PU!) that have
terrible UV stability, and those like PVA that creep under load.
I use almost entirely hide glue, particularly for my good furniture. I
use PVA for biscuits and modern board materials, Titebond II for small
joints in modern style work, and loads of epoxy. For "traditional"
joints though or especially for veneering, there's nothing to beat hot
hide glue. With a thermostatic electric pot, it's even easy to use too.
Hide glue's awkward past reputation was almost entirely because of the
bother of using it, and the failed performance if you do over heat it.
I assume what the OP has is a tube of cold Titebond hide glue. A fine
product and as convenient as anything else. Give it a go and enjoy
yourself.
CW wrote:
> And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons were
> used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as the
> glue was weak.
>
Now THAT's a new one to me! Hide glue joints are, as are most glues, stronger
than the wood itself. More than that is irrelevant.
Or were you trying a troll?
--
It's turtles, all the way down
[email protected] () wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> Its main advantage is that it softens and redissolves when wet,
> allowing the joint to come apart.
>
> Its main disadvantage is that it softens and redissolves when wet,
> allowing the joint to come apart.
>
That's just like Tester's Model Cement. I purchased a used model
assembled with that stuff and it turned in to a kit by the time I got it
home.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Tim. I've been using regular Titebond, Titebond II & Titebond III (not the
dark stuff) for gluing
walnut for fine cabinet work for years.
"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
> Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
> Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his
> way to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He
> comes up with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good
> for? It looks a lot like gorilla glue.
>
> --
> "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> Homer Simpson
> Always drink upstream from the herd. And,
> If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then
> to make sure it's still there.
>
> Jerry© The Phoneman®
>
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:17:40 -0500, "Tim Taylor" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ok, that works for me. So I'm guessing it should be ok to use on the walnut.
>I just never used it before and don't want to ruin these boards.
>
>
Strongly suggest you investigate the properties and characteristics of
the glue before you leap. As stated, it's a good glue, been around for
ages, and is still in use. But it's not interchangeable with other,
more modern glues. Not saying it's better or worse in general, just
different and, potentially not recommended for some applications.
Don't know your particular application, but DAGS "Hide Glue", read
some of the references, and be sure that's what you want to use.
I don't know. I think Larry is a fairly bright guy. Now that J. Clarke
guy...
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> I think he's just ignorant.
Tim Taylor wrote:
> Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
> Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
> Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his way
> to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He comes up
> with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good for? It looks
> a lot like gorilla glue.
>
Here's som info (hide glue is actually best if you buy it in dry form):
http://www.bjorn.net/purpose.htm
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Data/Materials/hideglue.html
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Glue/UseHideGlue/usehideglue2.html
In article <[email protected]>,
Tim Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
>Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
>Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his way
>to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He comes up
>with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good for? It looks
>a lot like gorilla glue.
>
>--
Hide glue was state of the art for a long time in woodworking ,though
it was hot hide glue that had to be mixed and heated before use, not
the liquid hide glue your friend got.
Its main advantage is that it softens and redissolves when wet,
allowing the joint to come apart.
Its main disadvantage is that it softens and redissolves when wet,
allowing the joint to come apart.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> CW wrote:
>>
>>> And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons
>>> were
>>> used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as
>>> the
>>> glue was weak.
>>>
>>
>> Now THAT's a new one to me! Hide glue joints are, as are most glues,
>> stronger
>> than the wood itself. More than that is irrelevant.
>>
>> Or were you trying a troll?
>
> I think he's just ignorant. Dovetails and draw bored tenons and the like
> are generally used where the joint would otherwise involve a bond to end
> grain which even the best modern adhesives don't do very well.
Ok, thanks for all the answers guys. I stopped up in Indy at the WC store
while ago and got a bottle of what I wanted to begin with, as I just like to
use the brown glue on darker wood. I've got a bottle of hide glue in the
cabinet if anybody needs it!!!
Well now, quote "not as durable and long lasting . . . " and "it tends
to crack and eventually turns to near power"
that must be sometime after the 300 to 400 year point. All the old
antique furniture that I see around that was put together with hide glue
in the early 1600's and later are all holding up just fine. I haven't
seen one of those antiques falling apart yet because the glue turned to
power again.
But maybe I am just not looking at the right things. Even furniture
which I bought over 50 years ago that was put together with hide glue is
still just as strong as the day I bought them. After all, If it won't
last another 100 years, what do I care?
Zap
CW wrote:
> Hide glue is not nearly as durable and long lasting as modern yellow glues.
> It is hard and brittle. The initial joint is just fine but over time, under
> stress and flexing, it tends to crack and eventually turns to near powder.
> Yellow glues are far more resistant to that.
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>CW wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons
>
> were
>
>>>used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as
>
> the
>
>>>glue was weak.
>>>
>>
>>Now THAT's a new one to me! Hide glue joints are, as are most glues,
>
> stronger
>
>>than the wood itself. More than that is irrelevant.
>>
>>Or were you trying a troll?
>>
>>--
>>It's turtles, all the way down
>
>
>
And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons were
used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as the
glue was weak.
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> From Google:
> Hide glue, properly used, forms a strong and long-lasting bond. It was the
> most common woodworking glue for thousands of years
>
From Google:
Hide glue, properly used, forms a strong and long-lasting bond. It was the
most common woodworking glue for thousands of years
"Tim Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
> Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
> Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his
> way to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He
> comes up with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good
> for? It looks a lot like gorilla glue.
>
> --
> "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> Homer Simpson
> Always drink upstream from the herd. And,
> If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then
> to make sure it's still there.
>
> Jerry© The Phoneman®
>
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
>> And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons
>> were
>> used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as
>> the
>> glue was weak.
>>
>
> Now THAT's a new one to me! Hide glue joints are, as are most glues,
> stronger
> than the wood itself. More than that is irrelevant.
>
> Or were you trying a troll?
I think he's just ignorant. Dovetails and draw bored tenons and the like
are generally used where the joint would otherwise involve a bond to end
grain which even the best modern adhesives don't do very well.
An ER doc found the Rival Hot Pot Express several years ago and
suggested it as it has variable temperature dial. Don't want to
overheat the dry form when preparing.
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:32:31 +0100, name <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tim Taylor wrote:
>> Ok, I've seen a lot of you all talk about hide glue. I needed some brown
>> Titebond for some walnut glue ups I was doing. I was on the side of town
>> Woodcraft isn't, but I had a friend that was going right past it on his way
>> to give me a hand. I asked him to stop and pick me up a bottle. He comes up
>> with hide glue, not the brown glue. What's the hide glue good for? It looks
>> a lot like gorilla glue.
>>
>
>Here's som info (hide glue is actually best if you buy it in dry form):
>http://www.bjorn.net/purpose.htm
>http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Data/Materials/hideglue.html
>http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Glue/UseHideGlue/usehideglue2.html
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> From Google:
> Hide glue, properly used, forms a strong and long-lasting bond. It was the
> most common woodworking glue for thousands of years
Ok, that works for me. So I'm guessing it should be ok to use on the walnut.
I just never used it before and don't want to ruin these boards.
"Frank Arthur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> From Google:
> Hide glue, properly used, forms a strong and long-lasting bond. It was the
> most common woodworking glue for thousands of years
>
PS - color might be similar, but hide glue is nothing like Gorilla:
- Doesn't foam
- Doesn't stain (as bad)
- Hide glue is not a good choice for exterior work
- It can be disassembled - with patience
RonB
Hide glue is not nearly as durable and long lasting as modern yellow glues.
It is hard and brittle. The initial joint is just fine but over time, under
stress and flexing, it tends to crack and eventually turns to near powder.
Yellow glues are far more resistant to that.
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
> > And the prime reason that things like dovetails and draw bored tennons
were
> > used. They had to rely on mechanical means to hold a joint together as
the
> > glue was weak.
> >
>
> Now THAT's a new one to me! Hide glue joints are, as are most glues,
stronger
> than the wood itself. More than that is irrelevant.
>
> Or were you trying a troll?
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down