A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)
These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)
May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
What am I missing?
Thanks
They started installing them "about" 4-5 years ago
and I have noticed a fairly consistent outage of
the individual "lights" that make up the entire
signal.
Ex: The green light is made up of several leds
and a few will go out after a period of time. I
didn't pay much attention to that until I noticed
that a LOT of the lights had the same issue.
This might have a LOT to do with the vendor that
supplies the lights to the state.
Maybe it's a design feature that keeps the light
going even if there is a partial failure ???
J. Clarke wrote:
> Pat Barber wrote:
>> Based on what I have seen in North Carolina with their
>> little experiment with LED's in stop lights, they
>> have a ways to go....
>>
>> Maybe down the road but the current versions are not
>> up to the task.
>
> What problem are you seeing? Around here they're being installed on
> an attrition basis and seem to be working fine.
>
>> Andrew Barss wrote:
>>
>>> I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can
>>> leapfrog over the CFLs.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Andy Barss
>
On Aug 9, 5:39=A0pm, Richard Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
> >Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> >So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. =A0Lamp price $12,
> >porcelain screw in fixture, $3. =A0(Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq.=
ft.)
>
> >These few I bought seem to be just fine. =A0Everything seems to line up =
with
> >tube type as to output, life, etc. =A0Except tube fixtures cost more the=
n the
> >whole setup using CFL's. =A0Not HD fixtures. =A0(Lithonia)
>
> >May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
> >What am I missing?
>
> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
Aw geeez, not this shit again????
I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..
On Aug 10, 12:41 am, Richard Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>
> >>http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> >Aw geeez, not this shit again????
> >I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
> >silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..
>
> When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
> stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
> of things that have since proved harmful.
Some of us did.
--
FF
On Aug 10, 12:13 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
> > evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.
>
> ...
> I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
> 2500 kids.
Why?
Oh, it was a high school administrator who made that
decision, right?
--
FF
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 05:10:49 -0600, Rick Samuel wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
> porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)
>
> These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
> tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
> whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)
>
> May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
> What am I missing?
In my experience, their lifespan is roughly the same as incandescents. This
seems to follow for cheap/expensive and their on/off duty cycle.
-Bruce
>
> Thanks
>
>
Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote in
news:ce0d626b-fc92-466d-8c86-f312d813bf8a@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
> Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
> incandescent, however.
>
I doubt that CFLs would be soldered with lead. There's a witch hunt going
on for lead, so most outfits have switched to a lead-free solder.
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Aug 9, 9:58=A0pm, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:41:44 -0400, Richard Evans
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air=
.
>
> >>>http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> >>Aw geeez, not this shit again????
> >>I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
> >>silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..
>
> >When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
> >stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
> >of things that have since proved harmful.
>
> Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.
Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!
On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> >A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
> > Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> > So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
> > porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq.
> > ft.)
>
> > These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
> > tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then
> > the whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)
>
> > May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
> > What am I missing?
>
> > Thanks
>
> A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
> can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.
CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.
> Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
> makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights in
> my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light and
> they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.
Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
should the tube break.
On Aug 11, 4:43 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:49 pm, Andrew Barss <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > : How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
> > : like a stone.
>
> > Have a look at what you need to do to cleap up a CFL - requires being
> > down near the floor.
>
> > -- Andy Barss
>
> You mean like Pluto the dog, sniffing a trail?
> Who puts their face/nose on the floor when they're cleaning? I suspect
> in some cases, some spilt Peruvian Marching Powder might compel some
> to 'snort the floor'...
>
> Or does mercury 'hover' on your planet? (hint: it's very heavy)
It does indeed 'hover' on my planet. (hint: it has a non-zero vapor
pressure.)
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/vaporpressure.html
http://www.ilpi.com/safety/mercury.html
Lead Oxide also readily volatilises.
--
FF
On Aug 10, 2:57 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
> >> can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.
>
> > CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.
>
> In many cases it is undetectable but as a bulb begins to go bad and or the
> ballast goes bad the flicker can be more evident. I was at a friends house
> a few months ago and and the 24" florescent fixture on the ceiling in the
> laundry room made you feel like you were in a Disco, it was nauseating.
T12s flicker at line frequency. Narrower tubes turn on and
off at higher frequencies, same as how the thinner high E
string on a guitar sounds higher than the bass E.
> Additionally the flicker is normally hard to see until you compare it to
> something turning slightly out of phase with the kHz. I have some
> "dimmable" floresent spot lights in track lighting and when they begin to go
> bad they put on a light show.
>
>
>
> >> Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
> >> makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights
> >> in
> >> my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light
> >> and
> >> they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.
>
> > Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
> > Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
> > inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
> > should the tube break.
>
> Good to know, is that for all brands or a particular brand?
Cheapest works fine for me.
On Aug 10, 11:40 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 10:49 pm, Andrew Barss <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > : On Aug 9, 11:28?pm, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>: wrote:
>
> > :> >>What am I missing?
> > :>
> > :> > Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
> > :>
> > :> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
> > :>
> > :> ?Same with tube type. ?Is there more mercury in CFL's? ?The above said
> > :> nothing about a difference.
>
> > : Here's a comparison re: mercury quantities in different products:
>
> > Good to know, but it seems the mercury (as vapor) in CFCs is released
> > more immediately into the air than in most of the items you listed.
Only if the CFL was hot when broken and the other items cold.
> > (The air one is breathing while cleaning up a broken CFC).
>
> ...
>
> How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
> like a stone.
Wrong.
Mercury liquid and the mercury vapor above it will form an equilibrium
that is temperature dependent. As mercury vapor is removed from
the air above the liquid more will evaporate until all of the liquid
is gone.
While the vapor pressure of mercury is low at room temperature, it is
readily absorbed into the human body by inhalation, and is not nearly
so readily eliminated.
Thus spilt mercury in your environment will continuously accumulate
in the persons who breathe the air in the environment until it is
all removed from that environment.
--
FF
On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>
> >> >When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
> >> >stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
> >> >of things that have since proved harmful.
>
> >> Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.
>
> > Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!
>
> My 10th grade chemistry teacher - Miss Green - dropped a 500 ml beaker
> about half full of mercury. We all played with marble-size balls of the
> stuff for days.
>
> The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
> evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.
>
> Scott
I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
2500 kids.
B A R R Y wrote:
> Jim Harvey wrote:
>>
>> You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
>> tolerance.
>
> But do you need them?
>
> "Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
> door openers.
Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
for the idea.
Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).
The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Pat Barber wrote:
> Based on what I have seen in North Carolina with their
> little experiment with LED's in stop lights, they
> have a ways to go....
>
> Maybe down the road but the current versions are not
> up to the task.
They've been GREAT here in CT. I'd say we've had them for at least 7-8
years. Did NC pick a crappy supplier?
Also, almost all new aircraft lighting is LED. We replaced our tail
"bubble gum machine" last year with an LED strobe. It wasn't cheap, but
the performance is terrific.
B A R R Y wrote:
> Rick Samuel wrote:
>> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>>
>> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> My shop is full of them.
>
> On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
> filament to fail due to vibration.
You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
tolerance.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Basic problem with a CFL is that it requires "warm up" time which
> makes it a poor choice for fast response On-Off application like
> garage door operators.
Different ones behave differently in this regard. I have some CFLs that
take a minute to come up to full brightness, and others that come up to
near-full-brightness in about a second.
Interestingly, the more expensive ones weren't always better.
Chris
Based on what I have seen in North Carolina with their
little experiment with LED's in stop lights, they
have a ways to go....
Maybe down the road but the current versions are not
up to the task.
Andrew Barss wrote:
> I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can leapfrog over
> the CFLs.
>
>
> -- Andy Barss
"Rick Samuel" wrote:
> We just did a major remodel on our house, garage door openers too.
> He asked if we had any lamps, he'd put em in while he was up there.
> Handed him a CFL, he said these were great for places with
> vibration. Much better then incandescent.
Basic problem with a CFL is that it requires "warm up" time which
makes it a poor choice for fast response On-Off application like
garage door operators.
Better to use a "Rough Service" incandescent lamp.
To qualify as a "rough service" lamp, increase the filament voltage by
say 10% which is exactly what a traffic signal lamp is.(130V vs 120V)
Available at any decent electrical distributor.
Lew
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>> >When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
>> >stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
>> >of things that have since proved harmful.
>>
>> Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.
>
> Goodness...I was never lucky enough to have a whole bowl... lucky you!
My 10th grade chemistry teacher - Miss Green - dropped a 500 ml beaker
about half full of mercury. We all played with marble-size balls of the
stuff for days.
The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.
Scott
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>B A R R Y wrote:
>> Rick Samuel wrote:
>>> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>>>
>>> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>>
>> My shop is full of them.
>>
>> On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
>> filament to fail due to vibration.
>
> The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
> with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
> trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
> relay.
Are you using "Dimmable" Fluorescents? They work well for me but they are
about 4x more expensive.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> "Rick Samuel" wrote:
>
>> We just did a major remodel on our house, garage door openers too.
>> He asked if we had any lamps, he'd put em in while he was up there.
>> Handed him a CFL, he said these were great for places with
>> vibration. Much better then incandescent.
>
> Basic problem with a CFL is that it requires "warm up" time which
> makes it a poor choice for fast response On-Off application like
> garage door operators.
>
Here in AZ, even in the winter, I'm not sure that will be a problem.
Hasn't been thus far when using the CFL's as porch lights.
> Better to use a "Rough Service" incandescent lamp.
>
> To qualify as a "rough service" lamp, increase the filament voltage by
> say 10% which is exactly what a traffic signal lamp is.(130V vs 120V)
>
> Available at any decent electrical distributor.
>
> Lew
I've got those in the GDO, my thought was that, in this one case, I might
actually be able to get 60 watts or more of theoretical light from a
fixture that specifies the need for low wattage.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Aug 11, 12:07 am, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote innews:ce0d626b-fc92-466d-8c86-f312d813bf8a@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
> > Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
> > incandescent, however.
>
> I doubt that CFLs would be soldered with lead. There's a witch hunt going
> on for lead, so most outfits have switched to a lead-free solder.
My next dead appliance to take apart to see
what's inside.
On Aug 12, 11:27 pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>
> > Jim Harvey wrote:
>
> >> You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
> >> tolerance.
>
> > But do you need them?
>
> > "Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
> > door openers.
>
> Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
> for the idea.
>
> Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
> CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
> electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).
High blue output. 15 or 25 watt cool white CFLs make
excellent, inexpensive plant grow lamps. While you
might not like the dead blue spectrum, plants absolutely
flourish under it.
> The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
> versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 9, 5:59 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
>> can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning.
>
> CFLS? I thought the flicker frequency was in kHz range, undetectable.
In many cases it is undetectable but as a bulb begins to go bad and or the
ballast goes bad the flicker can be more evident. I was at a friends house
a few months ago and and the 24" florescent fixture on the ceiling in the
laundry room made you feel like you were in a Disco, it was nauseating.
Additionally the flicker is normally hard to see until you compare it to
something turning slightly out of phase with the kHz. I have some
"dimmable" floresent spot lights in track lighting and when they begin to go
bad they put on a light show.
>
>> Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
>> makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights
>> in
>> my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light
>> and
>> they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.
>
> Takes my eyes at least that long to focus, so no problem.
> Note that the Lexan-encased PAR floods with the CFL tubes
> inside offer a solution to the leakage of the trace of mercury
> should the tube break.
Good to know, is that for all brands or a particular brand?
On Aug 10, 10:49=A0pm, Andrew Barss <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : On Aug 9, 11:28?pm, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>: wrot=
e:
>
> :> >>What am I missing?
> :>
> :> > Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the ai=
r.
> :>
> :> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
> :>
> :> ?Same with tube type. ?Is there more mercury in CFL's? ?The above said
> :> nothing about a difference.
>
> : Here's a comparison re: mercury quantities in different products:
>
> Good to know, but it seems the mercury (as vapor) in CFCs is released
> more immediately into the air than in most of the items you listed.
> (The air one is breathing while cleaning up a broken CFC).
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- Andy Barss
How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
like a stone.
On Aug 10, 11:44 am, Richard Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>What am I missing?
>
> >> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>
> >>http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> > Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
> >nothing about a difference.
>
> I'm guessing that there is, based on several observations:
>
> - I've never seen dire warnings about the consequences of breaking the
> tubes..
>
> - There are not complicated cleanup instructions for broken tubes.
>
> - The landfill accepts tubes but not CFLs.
CFLs include PC boards, probably soldered with lead.
Lead amount per CFL is probably the same as for an
incandescent, however.
> - I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
> of similar dangers from tubes.
On Aug 10, 11:44 am, Richard Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>
> - I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
> of similar dangers from tubes.
I do, vaguely.
The mercury vapor is needed so that there is a conductive path
between the electrodes when the tube is cold, before the gas is
ionized.
--
FF
On Aug 9, 11:28=A0pm, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >>What am I missing?
>
> > Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> =A0Same with tube type. =A0Is there more mercury in CFL's? =A0The above s=
aid
> nothing about a difference.
Here's a comparison re: mercury quantities in different products:
Product
Amount of Mercury
Number of Equivalent CFLs
Compact
fluorescent lamp
5 milligrams
1
Watch battery
25 milligrams
5
Dental amalgams
500 milligrams
100
Home thermometer
500 milligrams =96 2 grams
100 =96 400
Float switches in sump pumps
2 grams
400
Tilt thermostat
3 grams
600
Electrical tilt switches and relays
3.5 grams
700
On Aug 11, 3:49=A0pm, Andrew Barss <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
> : like a stone.
>
> Have a look at what you need to do to cleap up a CFL - requires being
> down near the floor.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- Andy Barss
You mean like Pluto the dog, sniffing a trail?
Who puts their face/nose on the floor when they're cleaning? I suspect
in some cases, some spilt Peruvian Marching Powder might compel some
to 'snort the floor'...
Or does mercury 'hover' on your planet? (hint: it's very heavy)
On Aug 9, 11:28 pm, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >>What am I missing?
>
> > Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
> nothing about a difference.
Smaller tube. Less Hg needed.
On Aug 10, 11:54 am, Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 10, 12:13 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 10, 6:55 am, Elrond Hubbard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> > > The next year, she dropped a large sealed flask of chlorine gas. They
> > > evacuated the science wing for the rest of the day.
>
> > ...
> > I set off a thermite bomb in the hood and they evacuated the school -
> > 2500 kids.
>
> Why?
>
> Oh, it was a high school administrator who made that
> decision, right?
>
Why did I set off the bomb? I'd done a term paper on thermite bombs -
this was only a dozen or so years post WWII.
Why did they evacuate the school? Hood didn't do a very good job and
somebody panicked.
On Aug 9, 6:10=A0am, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. =A0Lamp price $12,
> porcelain screw in fixture, $3. =A0(Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. =
ft.)
>
> These few I bought seem to be just fine. =A0Everything seems to line up w=
ith
> tube type as to output, life, etc. =A0Except tube fixtures cost more then=
the
> whole setup using CFL's. =A0Not HD fixtures. =A0(Lithonia)
>
> May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Thanks
The distribution of the light may not be as good with the CFLs in the
porcelain fixtures. With the 4' or 8' fluorescent tubes the light is
very well distributed. Last winter I put in about 40 4' 2 bulb
fluorescent lights into the basement. Each fixture is about a foot or
so from the next in a row with about 6 feet between rows. Used the
cheap bulbs because I could not justify the 4 times cost for the nice
bulbs. Lots of light everywhere in the basement with no spots much
brighter than others. Very even distribution of light. Maybe wth
very high ceilings the porcelain fixtures with CFLs would have an
opportunity to disperse the light well enough. Or you could have
bright spots and dark spots in the room.
"Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>What am I missing?
>>
>> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
> Same with tube type. Is there more mercury in CFL's? The above said
>nothing about a difference.
I'm guessing that there is, based on several observations:
- I've never seen dire warnings about the consequences of breaking the
tubes..
- There are not complicated cleanup instructions for broken tubes.
- The landfill accepts tubes but not CFLs.
- I've never seen in the dicusssion of the dangers of CFLs a mention
of similar dangers from tubes.
B A R R Y wrote:
> Rick Samuel wrote:
>> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>>
>> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> My shop is full of them.
>
> On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
> filament to fail due to vibration.
The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
relay.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>B A R R Y wrote:
>> Rick Samuel wrote:
>>> A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>>>
>>> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>>
>> My shop is full of them.
>>
>> On a side note, they make great tool mounted lamps, as there is no
>> filament to fail due to vibration.
>
> The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
> with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
> trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
> relay.
Well, a real, and helpful answer, thanks. I have a few mag. switches.
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
: On Aug 9, 11:28?pm, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]>
: wrote:
:> >>What am I missing?
:>
:> > Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
:>
:> >http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
:>
:> ?Same with tube type. ?Is there more mercury in CFL's? ?The above said
:> nothing about a difference.
: Here's a comparison re: mercury quantities in different products:
Good to know, but it seems the mercury (as vapor) in CFCs is released
more immediately into the air than in most of the items you listed.
(The air one is breathing while cleaning up a broken CFC).
-- Andy Barss
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
: How long do you think mercury vapour stays airborne? The stuff sinks
: like a stone.
Have a look at what you need to do to cleap up a CFL - requires being
down near the floor.
-- Andy Barss
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
: B A R R Y wrote:
:> Jim Harvey wrote:
:>>
:>> You can get CFLs rated for ceiling fan use. They have higher vibration
:>> tolerance.
:>
:> But do you need them?
:>
:> "Regular" CFLs have been great for me in tools, ceiling fans, and garage
:> door openers.
: Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
: for the idea.
: Other than that, I haven't been very happy with the quality of light from
: CFL's. They're OK for the porch lights since they save some money on
: electricity (although they seem to attract more bugs with the extra UV).
: The last batches I've bought seem to last a bit better than earlier
: versions, such that they may be lasting long enough to actually save money.
I've had much the same disappointing experience. Several didn't last long,
and overall the quality and intensity of light doesn't seem up to snuff.
Dimmer (even ones that are supposed to exceed the replaced incandescents in
lumens), and off somehow.
I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can leapfrog over
the CFLs.
-- Andy Barss
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>B A R R Y wrote:
>
>
> Garage door opener, now that might be a really good application, thanks
> for the idea.
>
We just did a major remodel on our house, garage door openers too. He
asked if we had any lamps, he'd put em in while he was up there. Handed him
a CFL, he said these were great for places with vibration. Much better then
incandescent.
Pat Barber wrote:
> Based on what I have seen in North Carolina with their
> little experiment with LED's in stop lights, they
> have a ways to go....
>
> Maybe down the road but the current versions are not
> up to the task.
What problem are you seeing? Around here they're being installed on
an attrition basis and seem to be working fine.
>
> Andrew Barss wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can
>> leapfrog over the CFLs.
>>
>>
>> -- Andy Barss
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Pat Barber wrote:
> They started installing them "about" 4-5 years ago
> and I have noticed a fairly consistent outage of
> the individual "lights" that make up the entire
> signal.
>
> Ex: The green light is made up of several leds
> and a few will go out after a period of time. I
> didn't pay much attention to that until I noticed
> that a LOT of the lights had the same issue.
>
> This might have a LOT to do with the vendor that
> supplies the lights to the state.
>
> Maybe it's a design feature that keeps the light
> going even if there is a partial failure ???
Exactly. A certain percentage of any electronic component will suffer
"infant mortality" (google "bathtub curve" for more information on the
statistical pattern) but with an LED array the failure of a few
individual LEDs doesn't have any significant effect on function.
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Pat Barber wrote:
>>> Based on what I have seen in North Carolina with their
>>> little experiment with LED's in stop lights, they
>>> have a ways to go....
>>>
>>> Maybe down the road but the current versions are not
>>> up to the task.
>>
>> What problem are you seeing? Around here they're being installed
>> on
>> an attrition basis and seem to be working fine.
>>
>>> Andrew Barss wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm hoping for breakthroughs in LED manufacturing, so we can
>>>> leapfrog over the CFLs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Andy Barss
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UO%ok.831$ZV1.470@trnddc07...
>
> "Rick Samuel" wrote:
>
>> We just did a major remodel on our house, garage door openers too. He
>> asked if we had any lamps, he'd put em in while he was up there. Handed
>> him a CFL, he said these were great for places with vibration. Much
>> better then incandescent.
>
> Basic problem with a CFL is that it requires "warm up" time which makes it
> a poor choice for fast response On-Off application like garage door
> operators.
No slow warm up, they come on about a 1/2 second after the button is
pushed. May be different in winter, but winter is mild in the TX Hill
Country.
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:41:44 -0400, Richard Evans
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>>
>>Aw geeez, not this shit again????
>>I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
>>silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..
>
>When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
>stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
>of things that have since proved harmful.
Like playing with a bowl of mercury as if it were Jello.
"Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
> Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
> So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
> porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq.
> ft.)
>
> These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
> tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then
> the whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)
>
> May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Thanks
>
A couple of problems with a florescent is that they do flicker and they
can at a quick glance make certain tools appear to not be turning. If you
think your saw blade is not turning you might have an accident. This may be
more of a problem with a VS DP or Lathe and if you cannot hear the machine
running. Have you ever noticed how a drill chuck seems to spin backwards
stop and go forward as you raise and lower the speed when using florescent
lighting? As the speed of the chuck goes into and out of phase with the
cycles of the lamp the chuck can appear to be turning at a different speed
or direction.
Another problem is many are very slow to come up to full brightness, cold
makes this situation worse. I currently have 6 florescent flood lights in
my home and all take up to 20 - 40 seconds to put out any usable light and
they are comparable to a 65 watt spot.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The big problem I have with them is that they don't work worth crap
> with any kind of electronic control. Not just dimmers, but they have
> trouble with any X10 stuff or the like that doesn't use a mechanical
> relay.
>
I have two on X-10, one on the appliance module, the other on a lamp module.
Works OK but I never need to dim those two. They are good in places that
need night lights or in difficult to reach fixtures as they last a long
time. I'll never convert 100% though, they can't do it all.
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:31:46 -0700, Father Haskell wrote:
> High blue output. 15 or 25 watt cool white CFLs make
> excellent, inexpensive plant grow lamps. While you
> might not like the dead blue spectrum, plants absolutely
> flourish under it.
Yes, they do. But they do even better with the 6500K ones. Especially in
an aquarium.
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:10:49 +0300, Rick Samuel wrote:
>
> So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82.
Be careful with the term "full spectrum". It is a misleading marketing
term used to advertise many bulbs that are far short of better light.
Technically, CRI (Color Rendering Index) is the accuracy with which a
light matches it's reference, usually daylight. No bulb less than 90
should be called "full spectrum", although many are. (A quick search
finds numerous examples with CRI of 75!)
In short: use bulbs >95 CRI and temperature 5,000-5,5000K for the fullest
and most accurate range of light in the same band as daylight.
--
Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]
"Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A few months ago(6?) I asked about using CFL's in a shop.
>
>Recommendations were, not a good idea, no reasons given.
>
>So, bought a few 42W, 5100K full spectrum, CRI of 82. Lamp price $12,
>porcelain screw in fixture, $3. (Need 45 lamps to reach 2.1 W per sq. ft.)
>
>These few I bought seem to be just fine. Everything seems to line up with
>tube type as to output, life, etc. Except tube fixtures cost more then the
>whole setup using CFL's. Not HD fixtures. (Lithonia)
>
>May throw in a few 4100K lamps to warm things up a bit, don't know.
>
>What am I missing?
Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe the dangers of breaking them and releasing mercury into the air.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp
>
>Aw geeez, not this shit again????
>I used to play with mercury when I was a kid... I used to rub it on
>silver dimes to make them shiny... and I grew up norbal...geeezzz..
When I was a kid, shoe stores used to have X-ray machines you could
stick your foot in just to see what it looked like. We survived lots
of things that have since proved harmful.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> Basic problem with a CFL is that it requires "warm up" time which
> makes it a poor choice for fast response On-Off application like
> garage door operators.
Even on 10F temps, mine throws enough light to get in and out of the
car, as well as park the car. It's noticeable but plenty livable.