Sealing the lids on paint tins

I use the wine box for all my finishes.
It's great. I can mix the paint by just slapping the membrane on a
bench. It elongates the storage of all my finishes.

The way my wife and brother in law go through these boxes I have an
endless supply.

I use soda bottles with the top cut off to fill them (makes a one time
funnel) squeeze the air out, then store.

The best method of storing I have used. No rusted lids, no stuck lids.

If I can't get the stuff to remix, I pour it all out in a can and mix,
then pour it back. Rarely needed, but occasionally does happen.

One more advantage is the small storage size.

On 7/5/2011 7:28 AM, Owain wrote:
> On Jul 5, 12:19 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>
> Something like a wine box?
>
> Owain
>

On 7/5/2011 5:36 AM, steve robinson wrote:
> Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>
>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>
>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>
>> Store the tins upside down.
>
> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>

New air or not the paint will skim over, better on bottom than on top.

On 7/5/2011 7:27 AM, Robin wrote:
>> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
>> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
>> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
>
> Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
> carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
> oxygen (plus added water vapour).
>

He left out holding your breath. Have you ever heard of holding your
breath before blowing out a candle?

On 7/5/2011 6:03 AM, steve robinson wrote:
> Nightjar wrote:
>
>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>> Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>
>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>
>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>
>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>
>>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>
> The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
> mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate

Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.

On 7/5/2011 4:15 AM, john brook wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetable
> bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints
> and glues that come stored in tins.
>
> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act like a
> 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. But since air passes
> through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in 'silvered' plastic
> bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?
>
>

If you keep paint out of the sealing area between the lid and can you
get the same effect.

Store the can upside down to keep the air on bottom.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 20:11:59 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> By the way, I noticed on the instructions on a tin it
> said "do not open with a screwdriver". So what are you
> supposed to use? I used a screwdriver...

The tin of emulsion from TS was so thin that a screwdriver would have opened
it - like a can opener!
The best tool I found for the job was an old metal tyre lever (push-bike
size) that id rounded and smoothed about 40 years ago. Plenty of area and no
sharp edges.
Then "stir thoroughly": even a plastic kitchen thingy (overgrown spoon,
metal handle) deformed the can, so a metal stirrer... )h, also about 5mm of
freeboard in a 5 litre can...
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 7/6/2011 2:02 AM, Bill wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:36:34 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>
>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>
>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>
>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>
>> Just make sure you use a paint strainer after opening a can the second
>> time.
>>
>
> This reminds of a question I did not quickly locate the answer to on the
> web. I have never bought bought paint in greater than 1 gallon units.
> They are easy to shake and pour into paint trays, etc. What is the usual
> process for using a *5 gallon* container of paint? I assume it has to be
> mixed really well (practical to do by hand?) and that a "paint ladle" of
> some sort would be handy.
>
> Bill
>


The 5 gallons get mixed if you pick a non stock color, but we get them
shook regardless. You pour out of them just as you would a 1 gallon
container, you just have to be more careful and have a paint brush handy
to clean up the drips down the sides. The biggest problem with the 5
gallon buckets is getting the lid off. A 5 in 1 comes in handy for
that. also consider switching from a roller tray to a roller bucket.
With the waste basket style paint buckets for rollers you can easily
dump a gallon of paint into them and not waste time refilling all day
long. We typically refill our roller paint buckets a couple times a day
maybe three times on a long day. Plus they are much easier to carry around.

On Jul 5, 12:19=A0pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
> =A0so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin t=
hat
> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ? =A0

Something like a wine box?

Owain

In message <[email protected]>
Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/6/2011 8:21 AM, HeyBub wrote:
>> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>
>>> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
>>> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
>>> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.
>
>For cleaning brushes, a spinner is mandatory. Something like this:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3dq464p
>
>My method is to use a jar/can just big enough for the brush. Put in a
>small amount of solvent and clean out the brush, then spin the brush in
>a cardboard box. Dump the small amount of dirty solvent in a different
>jar or can. Repeat several times.

That works.

>Save the old dirty thinner, and next time, all the heavy pigments settle
>to the bottom and the old thinner is now clean.. Use the old thinner to
>clean next time, only using a bit of new thinner for the last couple of
>cleans. This is really easy, uses almost no thinner and really keeps
>your brushes nice.

I also save dirty thinners and allow the pigments to settle.

>You need 3 cans/jars to do this, one for storing old thinner, one to
>clean the brush, and an intermediate one to store the newly dirty
>thinner. When done, pour the dirty thinner into the old thinner storage
>can. You can use lacquer thinner but lacquer suspends the pigments
>forever, while turps or mineral spirits lets the pigments drop to the
>bottom, leaving clean thinner.

By Lacquer thinners do you mean Cellulose thinner?
However using Cellulose/Lacquer type thinners will destroy the
natural spring in the brush resulting in a useless floppy brush.

You have described the above method the wrong way round though,
Turps will coagulate the paint whereas Cellulose or as you call it
lacquer thinner will draw the paint completely out of the bristle
stock, as does mineral Naphtha but Naphtha will not destroy the
spring in a natural bristle brush.

>Don't use your good oil brushes for water based paints (hide them
>from your wife). Clean the cheaper plastic water brushes with
>just water and the spinner, or throw them away after your wife
>paints (and never ever cleans a brush)...
>

Stephen.

--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsular.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

In message <[email protected]>
Lobster <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 05/07/2011 13:46, [email protected] wrote:
>> In message<[email protected]>
>> "Dave Liquorice"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>>>
>>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>>>> on top, when you come to use it.
>>>
>>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>>
>> With sufficient air space in the tin the oil paint will skin over
>> anyway, this will protect the remaining paint and depending on
>> the type of paint you are supposed to either cut off and remove
>> the skin then thoroughly stir or stir in the skin
>
>What's the deal there - I never know what to do for the best when
>I come across skin on paint. I usually make a judgement on
>whether it will actually ever stir in, and if not (eg if it's an
>eighth of an inch of hard dry crust!) I remove it.

It depends how thick the skin is, if it is thin then usually the
oil has not separated and you can just lift the skin off, If it is
thick and sat on separated oil then this oil should be stirred
back in and then strained to remove the bits of skin, this way you
don't lose the integrity of the paint.

>What does it do to the quality of the paint itself? Would the
>underlying paint become more (or less?) concentrated from repeated
>removal of skin? Or is the skin layer identical in quality/content to
>the liquid?

Oil paint is not resoluble so you have to remove the skin but
sometimes the skin is so thick and hard the paint underneath will
need that bit of medium that's still stuck to the base of the
skin.
Oil paint will become concentrated during use anyway as the
solvents or oil evaporate.

You can however add a little boiled Linseed oil if the paint
appears far too thick to be satisfactorily usable.

Stephen.


--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsular.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:36:34 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News) <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>> large >> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>> >
>> >> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>> >
>> > Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>
>> Store the tins upside down.
>
>Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.

Just make sure you use a paint strainer after opening a can the second
time.

--
Just getting back after a farkin' virus ate my computer.
I'm still without any email or usenet archives. <sigh>

In message <[email protected]>
Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/7/2011 2:21 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> In message<[email protected]>
>> Jack Stein<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> By Lacquer thinners do you mean Cellulose thinner?
>
>I don't know, by lacquer thinner I mean the stuff I used to paint cars
>with when I was a kid, and now buy at Home Depot in a can that says
>"lacquer thinner" on it.

You must be from the USA.

Your lacquer thinner will be the same as what we in the UK call
Cellulose thinner which is indeed used in vehicle painting or
spraying.

>> However using Cellulose/Lacquer type thinners will destroy the
>> natural spring in the brush resulting in a useless floppy brush.
>
>I believe you but I've used it often. I use lacquer thinner a
>lot for all sorts of cleaning things. I just know that when I
>use mineral spirits or paint thinner, the pigments settle out,
>but when I use lacquer thinner, they seem to remain suspended
>indefinitely.

The lacquer/cellulose thinner is a very powerful solvent and has
many uses, I have a five gallon tub of this in my garage.

Mineral spirit is the same as Turps, but in the UK we call it
Turpentine, Turps for short or turps substitute.

>> You have described the above method the wrong way round though,
>> Turps will coagulate the paint whereas Cellulose or as you call it
>> lacquer thinner will draw the paint completely out of the bristle
>> stock, as does mineral Naphtha but Naphtha will not destroy the
>> spring in a natural bristle brush.
>
>I guess you are saying to use lacquer for the initial heavy
>cleaning and finish up with paint thinner? That would work but
>Paint thinner works fine and I can reuse the thinner after the
>pigments all settle out. I don't like using used lacquer thinner
>as it doesn't settle clear, even after long periods, so I'm
>throwing out lots of thinner.

You can use either for the initial cleaning but I find the
cellulose or naphtha more effective at removing the paint from a
brush than turps.

The thinner acts the same way as Naphtha both being very volatile,
the mineral spirit however does not clean a paint brush on its own
by simply standing the brush in the solvent, only after thorough
cleaning the brush is it better served being suspended in mineral
spirit which is almost exactly the same as white spirit that I
believe you would call a Stoddard solvent in the USA.

>I haven't seen or used "turps" since I was a kid. I use paint
>thinner or mineral spirits, because that's what I see on the
>shelves at a reasonable cost. I don't even know what "Naphtha"
>is. I've seen the word used a lot around here, and have looked
>it up a few times. I still don't know what it is, and I ain't
>looking it up again, cause I know I'll forget anyway. I think
>Naphtha was some kind of yellow soap when I was a young?
>
As a reminder from the www,

Naphtha is a term usually restricted to a class of colourless,
volatile, flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixtures. Obtained as one
of the more volatile fractions in the fractional distillation of
petroleum (when it is known as petroleum naphtha), in the
fractional distillation of coal tar (coal-tar naphtha), and in a
similar distillation of wood (wood naphtha), it is used widely as
a solvent for various organic substances, such as fats and rubber,
and in the making of varnish. Because of its dissolving property
it is important as a cleaning fluid; it is also incorporated in
certain laundry soaps. Coal-tar (aromatic) naphthas have greater
solvent power than petroleum (aliphatic) naphthas.
Originally the term naphtha designated a colourless flammable
liquid obtained from the ground in Persia. Later it came to be
applied to a number of other natural liquid substances having
similar properties. Technically, gasoline and kerosene are
considered naphthas.

Stephen.

--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsula.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
> Oxygen is the enemy of unused paint. Here are some tips:
>
> * Don't paint out of the can. Pour paint into another container and
> re-seal the can.
> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then - pay
> attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces most of
> the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
> * Use a plastic bag as your friend suggested. It acts like a gasket around
> the edges.
> * Store the can upside down. Any remaining oxygen will cause a thin film
> to form on what will be the bottom of the paint next time you open the
> can.
> * Make sure the lid is on tightly. Else some paint will leak out, firmly
> attaching the lid to the shelf such that when you grab the can, the lid
> stays on the shelf, the remaining paint plops to the floor, and you have
> an empty can in your hand.

And be sure that a dumb blonde doesn't get a hold of these instructions.
;-)

Max

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> New air or not the paint will skim over, better on bottom than on top.
>

Does this have the effect of creating an artificial bottom that keeps the
paint closer to the top when the lid is opened? I've noticed polyurethane
especially likes to create thick layers on top that must be broken through.

Puckdropper

On 05/07/2011 12:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>> on top, when you come to use it.
>
> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>

As the man says. If the skin is on the top you can cut it and remove it
... if underneath it will be mixed, broken and you will have to sieve
the paint.

:-)

On 5/07/2011 8:26 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
>>> quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>
>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>
> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>

Yea right - every time I do that with compresses gas it usually blows
the lid off :)

On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
> <[email protected]> writes
>>
>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>
> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
> developer.
> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>
> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine with
> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>

Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.

[email protected] wrote in news:7af7179o3s8cq8fnprccdsvhql6hk58rl3@
4ax.com:

> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>>
>>Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
> It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
> always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
> HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
> oil.
>

My sister wanted to stain the deck with some 3 year old deck stain. ALL
the solids had settled on to the bottom, where it took some doing to get
them back in suspension again. (I used a paint mixer in the drill press.)

It may not keep the contents mixed, but perhaps it will make it easier to
mix the contents back together.

Puckdropper

On 6/07/2011 3:35 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>> On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
>>> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
>>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>>
>>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>>>> that
>>>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>>
>>> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
>>> developer.
>>> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>>>
>>> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine with
>>> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
>>> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.
>
> Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
> intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for an
> enlarger and the associated bits, and I do enjoy messing about with
> proper B&W film. Much more satisfying than manipulating bits, IMO.
>

But will it take a 8"x10" enlarger?

I changed in 2003 (shot my last film), my enlargers(2) are still in the
darkroom with a wet bench, colour processor and film processor.

I haven't looked back, better for my health not breathing or touching
chemicals.

I can digitize old film formats, manipulate to any film texture and
print to 24" wide on the Epson printer.

But I'm thinking of resurrecting my 120 panoramic cameras and the E6
processor. i don't like the feel of digital images.

r

On 6/07/2011 8:42 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>> On 6/07/2011 3:35 PM, John Williamson wrote:
>>> Rob wrote:
>>>> On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
>>>>> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
>>>>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
>>>>> developer.
>>>>> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine
>>>>> with
>>>>> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
>>>>> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.
>>>
>>> Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
>>> intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for an
>>> enlarger and the associated bits, and I do enjoy messing about with
>>> proper B&W film. Much more satisfying than manipulating bits, IMO.
>>>
>>
>> But will it take a 8"x10" enlarger?
>>
> Possibly not, but I don't use bigger than 120 rollfilm, anyway.
>
>> I changed in 2003 (shot my last film), my enlargers(2) are still in
>> the darkroom with a wet bench, colour processor and film processor.
>>
>> I haven't looked back, better for my health not breathing or touching
>> chemicals.
>>
>> I can digitize old film formats, manipulate to any film texture and
>> print to 24" wide on the Epson printer.
>>
>> But I'm thinking of resurrecting my 120 panoramic cameras and the E6
>> processor. i don't like the feel of digital images.
>>
> Another excellent reason. Which reminds me...
> <Takes down Cibachrome print of a windmill in silhouette, and carefully
> packs it away for the move later today>
>
> I know for a fact that the detail inside the silhouette couldn't
> possibly be reproduce on *any* digital printout. Black on darker black,
> it is, and *very* subtle.
>
>

Well yes they can now - my printer has 4 blacks, three are used at
anyone time, which enable you to reproduce a very good grey scale.(Epson
7900 11 inks) unlike the others that mix colours to imitate black. I
think that the blacks would show better detail than the Ciba, which I
found too contrasty.

r

Owain wrote:
> On Jul 5, 12:19 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>> that can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>
> Something like a wine box?
>
> Owain

problem is that paint separates, so it needs to be something with a solid
bottom and room to get a stirrer in. What about a tough plastic bag inside
a tin?, you could then seal the bag in close proximity to the surface of the
paint and undo it for stirring and use.

In article <[email protected]>,
john brook <[email protected]> wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up
> vegetable bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of
> varnishes, paints and glues that come stored in tins.

> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act
> like a 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. But since air
> passes through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in
> 'silvered' plastic bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
quantity of new air when you replace the lid.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman [email protected] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <[email protected]>,
steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.

> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom

Or fill the space with some inert gas?

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman [email protected] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jul 5, 10:15=A0am, "john brook" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetabl=
e
> bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints
> and glues that come stored in tins.


Surely the place to put the plastic sheet is lying on top of the
paint. this separates it from the air.

Robert

In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 19:45:51 +0100, Andy Burns
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Been mentioned before, I think.
>>
>>http://www.brushmate.co.uk/

>A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you
>don't value your time highly enough"
>Every job gets a new brush.

He must be made of money unless he uses cheap brushes and by using
cheap throw away brushes how does he produce a decent finish.
This painter can't value his work very much.

Stephen.


--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsular.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/5/2011 6:03 AM, steve robinson wrote:
>> Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>>> Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>>
>>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>>
>>>
>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>>
>>> Colin Bignell
>>
>> The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
>> mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate
>
>Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
oil.

In message <[email protected]>
Lobster <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 05/07/2011 15:30, Moonraker wrote:
>
>> Another thing I have found useful is if I use a paint brush then
>> need to continue the job the next day wiping any excess paint off then
>> firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
>> until the morrow.
>
>I find a couple of layers of Tesco bags does the trick equally well
>actually - at least it's a use for the bloody things.
>
>Embarrassing confession - I employed a pro decorator a few months ago
>for the first time in my life. I was very intrigued that he had a new
>Special Box which he stored all his used brushes in; only it wasn't one
>of those where the bristles sit in turps, ISTR there was some form of
>chemical vapour in there which prevented the brushes from drying out
>indefinitely. He said it was the mutt's nuts and he'd pretty well given
>up on turps and brush cleaner. Can't remember what the stuff was though...
>
>David
>
Mineral Naphtha and Linseed oil was what we used to store our
paint brushes in, the oil stopped the naphtha from evaporating too
quickly, the naphtha will draw out paint completely from the brush
stock or bristle base.

Leaving a brush in a turpentine derivative will simply congeal the
remainder of paint left in the bristles.

Stephen.


--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsular.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

In message <[email protected]>, Dave
Liquorice <[email protected]> writes
>On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>> on top, when you come to use it.
>
>But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>
Without stirring it (or maybe after first stirring very carefully,
without breaking the skin), you decant most of the paint off into
another container. You then scrape off the sludge from the inside of the
lid, add it to the paint you have decanted, and stir it in well.

After you have used the paint, if there's still some left, you can pour
it back unto the original tin until the next time you need it.

Once opened, I suspect that a re-sealed tin often allows small amounts
of air to get in. Storing it upside down probably helps the lid to be
absolutely air-tight - just make sure it doesn't leak!

>

>

--
Ian

On 09/07/2011 21:31, Zapp Brannigan wrote:
>
> What about paint in a bag, without a tin? Tough blood-bag style pouch
> that could be kneaded to mix, and a strong plastic screw-top like a coke
> bottle.
>
>

Wine box anyone?

Andy

On Jul 5, 9:42=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Air passes through plastic sheet generally less than 4mm thick, but
> > as a gasket I don't think this applies.
>
> > I solve the "air in paint can" problem by filling the can up with
> > glass marbles to take up the space. I used to do this in my darkroom
> > for my photo chemicals, but thats long gone! =A0Glass of course doesn't
> > react with the paint, and they stay on the bottom. A bonus is as you
> > shake the can, they stir the paint! (Hold the lid on...)
>
> > The only problem at the beginning was raiding enough toy stores to
> > get a gallon of marbles! =A0The dollar store was a good find!
>
> You don't need to visit toy stores. Search the web for "marbles wholesale=
"
>
> Here's one place that sells about 500 5/8" marbles for $28 (500=3Dhalf-ga=
llon)
> (smaller assortments available).
>
> http://www.landofmarbles.com/marble-sets-and-assortments.html
>
> Apparently the marble business is highly competitive...

People keep losing them.

In message <[email protected]>, John Williamson
<[email protected]> writes
>Rob wrote:
>>>
>> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.
>
>Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
>intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for
>an enlarger and the associated bits,

Don't forget the kettle and biscuit tin.

> and I do enjoy messing about with proper B&W film. Much more
>satisfying than manipulating bits, IMO.
>
Absolutely! Watching that image appear in the developer tray is still a
magic moment. Beats clicking the "OK" button in Photoshop.

--
Paul Giverin

My Photos:- www.pbase.com/vendee

On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News) <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>
>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>
> Or fill the space with some inert gas?

Store the tins upside down.


--
Today is Sweetmorn, the 40th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3177
Sing, for song drives away the wolves.

On 7/5/2011 11:26 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
>>> quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>
>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>
> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>
I transfer leftover paints to nice clean glass jars. Takes up less
space, and makes it easy to see the colour.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
>>> quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>
>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>
> Or fill the space with some inert gas?

Or use an inflated plastic bag to fill the void.

(I started off writing "blow up a plastic bag...", but I suspect this is one
problem that wouldn't be best solved with explosives :)

--
Andrew

Rob wrote:
> On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
>> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>
>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>>> that
>>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>
>> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
>> developer.
>> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>>
>> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine with
>> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
>> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>>
>
> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.

Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for an
enlarger and the associated bits, and I do enjoy messing about with
proper B&W film. Much more satisfying than manipulating bits, IMO.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Paul Giverin wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, John Williamson
> <[email protected]> writes
>> Rob wrote:
>>>>
>>> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.
>>
>> Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
>> intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for
>> an enlarger and the associated bits,
>
> Don't forget the kettle and biscuit tin.
>
Biscuits are banned due to crumbs. I *hate* spotting prints.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Rob wrote:
> On 6/07/2011 3:35 PM, John Williamson wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>> On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
>>>> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
>>>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>>>
>>>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>>>>> that
>>>>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>>>
>>>> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
>>>> developer.
>>>> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>>>>
>>>> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine
>>>> with
>>>> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
>>>> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.
>>
>> Ah, now, I'm hoping to move within the next few weeks. The place I
>> intend moving to has a large, windowless area just the right size for an
>> enlarger and the associated bits, and I do enjoy messing about with
>> proper B&W film. Much more satisfying than manipulating bits, IMO.
>>
>
> But will it take a 8"x10" enlarger?
>
Possibly not, but I don't use bigger than 120 rollfilm, anyway.

> I changed in 2003 (shot my last film), my enlargers(2) are still in the
> darkroom with a wet bench, colour processor and film processor.
>
> I haven't looked back, better for my health not breathing or touching
> chemicals.
>
> I can digitize old film formats, manipulate to any film texture and
> print to 24" wide on the Epson printer.
>
> But I'm thinking of resurrecting my 120 panoramic cameras and the E6
> processor. i don't like the feel of digital images.
>
Another excellent reason. Which reminds me...
<Takes down Cibachrome print of a windmill in silhouette, and carefully
packs it away for the move later today>

I know for a fact that the detail inside the silhouette couldn't
possibly be reproduce on *any* digital printout. Black on darker black,
it is, and *very* subtle.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

john brook wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetable
> bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints
> and glues that come stored in tins.
>
> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act like
> a
> 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. But since air passes
> through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in 'silvered'
> plastic
> bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

I do this - but my reason is that the lid is much easier to remove years
later.

Mrcheerful wrote:
> Owain wrote:
>> On Jul 5, 12:19 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>>> that can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>
>> Something like a wine box?
>>
>> Owain
>
> problem is that paint separates, so it needs to be something with a solid
> bottom and room to get a stirrer in. What about a tough plastic bag
> inside
> a tin?, you could then seal the bag in close proximity to the surface of
> the
> paint and undo it for stirring and use.

What about paint in a bag, without a tin? Tough blood-bag style pouch
that could be kneaded to mix, and a strong plastic screw-top like a coke
bottle.

Mrcheerful wrote:

>
> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
> that can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ? or an
> inner cup that could be screwed inside the can and would then
> effectively raise the bottom surface of the can.

Back in the days before digital cameras, we used to use collapsable plastic
jars for chemicals used to process film and prints. Same reasons - keep the
volume of air contained inside to a minimum.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 05/07/2011 11:33, Huge wrote:
> Store the tins upside down.
>

You don't need to store them upside down (which as others have pointed
out means any skin is under the paint and hard to deal with) simply
inverting them once so paint seals the edge of the lid seems to make a
difference to me.

Andy

In message <[email protected]>, Dave
Liquorice <[email protected]> writes
>On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:00:08 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>>
>> Without stirring it (or maybe after first stirring very carefully,
>> without breaking the skin), you decant most of the paint off into
>> another container. You then scrape off the sludge from the inside of the
>> lid, add it to the paint you have decanted, and stir it in well.
>>
>> After you have used the paint, if there's still some left, you can pour
>> it back unto the original tin until the next time you need it.
>
>Gawd what a faff and lots of containers all mucky with paint...
>
That's the container (a large ex-pickled cabbage glass jar works for me)
you use to give your brush its first clean with white spirit. You then
leave the contents for a week or two, until the paint settles into a
sludge, then decant off the white spirit for re-use. Put the jar away
for a few months, until the sludge solidifies, then remove the sludge,
and dispose of it as a solid lump. Re-use the jar for brush cleaning
etc.

>> Once opened, I suspect that a re-sealed tin often allows small amounts
>> of air to get in. Storing it upside down probably helps the lid to be
>> absolutely air-tight - just make sure it doesn't leak!
>
>See other comments about tins stuck to shelves.

Don't you line your shelves with sheets of newspaper?

> Think I'll stick with
>cleaning lid rim and can carefully and tapping the lid fully home.
>With maybe an inversion to get paint around the inner edges but store
>the right way up.
>

--
Ian

Nightjar <"cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere> wrote:

> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>
>> Huge wrote:
>>
>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>
>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>
> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
> on top, when you come to use it.

Only if there's more than 1/2 a tin left when you put it away!

On 05/07/2011 12:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>> on top, when you come to use it.
>
> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?

Carefully. Although, if I keep a paint long enough for it to skin, the
skin is usually so thick that the propblem is how to break it.

Colin Bignell

In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 7/5/2011 7:27 AM, Robin wrote:
> >> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
> >> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
> >> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
> >
> > Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
> > carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
> > oxygen (plus added water vapour).
> >
>
> He left out holding your breath. Have you ever heard of holding your
> breath before blowing out a candle?

Nope. Neither has the wind.

On 7/5/2011 10:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 22:32:45 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2011 8:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/5/2011 6:03 AM, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>> Nightjar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>>>> Huge wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>>>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>>>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
>>>>> mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate
>>>>
>>>> Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
>>> It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
>>> always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
>>> HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
>>> oil.
>>
>> Was "constant changing" mentioned??? I believe simply storing upside
>> down was what the conversation was all about. Sure constant changing
>> will help but not simply rotating to the upside down position.
>>
>>
>>
> Rotating is an action, so I assumed it was more than just turning it
> over - which would be "inverting" it.
>


Go up a few posts, the one that states, "store the tins upside down".
Then rotating was mentioned as to the reason to store upside down.

Now throw into the mix that new paint in cases is stored upside down.
Open a case that is right side up and you find upside down paint cans.

john brook wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up
> vegetable bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of
> varnishes, paints and glues that come stored in tins.
>
> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act
> like a 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. But since air
> passes through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in
> 'silvered' plastic bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

Oxygen is the enemy of unused paint. Here are some tips:

* Don't paint out of the can. Pour paint into another container and re-seal
the can.
* When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then - pay
attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces most of the
oxygen with carbon dioxide.
* Use a plastic bag as your friend suggested. It acts like a gasket around
the edges.
* Store the can upside down. Any remaining oxygen will cause a thin film to
form on what will be the bottom of the paint next time you open the can.
* Make sure the lid is on tightly. Else some paint will leak out, firmly
attaching the lid to the shelf such that when you grab the can, the lid
stays on the shelf, the remaining paint plops to the floor, and you have an
empty can in your hand.

On 05/07/2011 15:30, Moonraker wrote:

> Another thing I have found useful is if I use a paint brush then
> need to continue the job the next day wiping any excess paint off then
> firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
> until the morrow.

I find a couple of layers of Tesco bags does the trick equally well
actually - at least it's a use for the bloody things.

Embarrassing confession - I employed a pro decorator a few months ago
for the first time in my life. I was very intrigued that he had a new
Special Box which he stored all his used brushes in; only it wasn't one
of those where the bristles sit in turps, ISTR there was some form of
chemical vapour in there which prevented the brushes from drying out
indefinitely. He said it was the mutt's nuts and he'd pretty well given
up on turps and brush cleaner. Can't remember what the stuff was though...

David

On 7/5/2011 5:02 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>> New air or not the paint will skim over, better on bottom than on top.
>>
>
> Does this have the effect of creating an artificial bottom that keeps the
> paint closer to the top when the lid is opened? I've noticed polyurethane
> especially likes to create thick layers on top that must be broken through.
>
> Puckdropper


It is a temp bottom, if it has skimmed over on the bottom it probably
needs to be stirred and there goes the bottom, but it is on the bottom.

On 05/07/2011 13:31, Andrew Morton wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
>>>> quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>
>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>
>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>
> Or use an inflated plastic bag to fill the void.
>
> (I started off writing "blow up a plastic bag...", but I suspect this is one
> problem that wouldn't be best solved with explosives :)

Cue the "Mr Bean does decorating" clip from Youtube...

David

Paul Giverin wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
> <[email protected]> writes
>>
>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin
>> that can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>
> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
> developer.
> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>
> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine
> with fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying
> to whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)

That would be a job to be passed to 'the boy'

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:36:34 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News) <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>> large >> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>> >
>> >> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>> >
>> > Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>
>> Store the tins upside down.
>
>Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
Fill the can with CO2 before closing - no oxygen to react with the
driers in the paint. CO2 is heavier than air, so displaces the air and
stays in the can.
Storing the can upside down just puts the "skin" on the bottom

In message <[email protected]>
"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>> on top, when you come to use it.
>
>But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?

With sufficient air space in the tin the oil paint will skin over
anyway, this will protect the remaining paint and depending on
the type of paint you are supposed to either cut off and remove
the skin then thoroughly stir or stir in the skin and then strain
through a nylon stocking or purpose made paint strainer.



--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
From the Wirral Peninsular.
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:49:07 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>
>I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
>next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
>down over paint trays and rollers.
>
>Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
>brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
>sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.

What's half an hour of time worth? For a DIY job you can mabee forget
about it - but commercially that buys a pretty decent brush.

For day to day, the cling wrap in the refrigerator works well. And the
same painter, when doing apartments etc - all the same colour - DOES
stretch a brush - uncleaned - that way.

He buys his brushes in bulk from a brush distributor - and his roller
sleeves.

On Jul 6, 11:37=A0pm, Gib Bogle <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 12:21 AM, HeyBub wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dave Liquorice wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
> >>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>
> >> I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
> >> next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
> >> down over paint trays and rollers.
>
> >> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
> >> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
> >> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.
>
> > Try this technique:
>
> > 1. Swish brush in 100% mineral spirits ten times. Remove excess (I use =
a
> > brush spinner).
> > 2. Swish brush in 50-50 mix of mineral spirits and alcohol ten times. R=
emove
> > excess.
> > 3. Swish brush in 100% alcohol ten times. Remove excess.
>
> Don't forget to exhale ten times.

And spin around three times whilst scratching your ear.

On Jul 5, 10:15=A0am, "john brook" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetabl=
e
> bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints
> and glues that come stored in tins.
>
> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act like=
a
> 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. =A0But since air passes
> through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in 'silvered' plast=
ic
> bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

Make sure lids are on tight and just store the tins upsiide down. End
of problem.

> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.

Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
oxygen (plus added water vapour).

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 20:11:59 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

>I've never had a skin form in any tin stored upside down.
>Skin forms because refitted lid rarely seals perfectly and
>you get slow air exchange, but it does seal much better if
>you store the tin upside down (and is noticably harder to
>open;-).

Skins form with the can in any orientation, trust me.


>By the way, I noticed on the instructions on a tin it
>said "do not open with a screwdriver". So what are you
>supposed to use? I used a screwdriver...

http://goo.gl/0UizX The proper tool. Buy one with the widest, longest
tip for the best results. Paint stores usually have a can of 100 or so
on the checkout counter.

--
Just getting back after a farkin' virus ate my computer.
I'm still without any email or usenet archives. <sigh>

On 05/07/2011 13:46, [email protected] wrote:
> In message<[email protected]>
> "Dave Liquorice"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>>> on top, when you come to use it.
>>
>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>
> With sufficient air space in the tin the oil paint will skin over
> anyway, this will protect the remaining paint and depending on
> the type of paint you are supposed to either cut off and remove
> the skin then thoroughly stir or stir in the skin

What's the deal there - I never know what to do for the best when I come
across skin on paint. I usually make a judgement on whether it will
actually ever stir in, and if not (eg if it's an eighth of an inch of
hard dry crust!) I remove it.

What does it do to the quality of the paint itself? Would the
underlying paint become more (or less?) concentrated from repeated
removal of skin? Or is the skin layer identical in quality/content to
the liquid?

David

On 7/5/2011 6:19 AM, Mrcheerful wrote:
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>
>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>>
>> As for the plastic bag under lid can't see a reason for it provided
>> the lid and rim are in good condition. I always wipe around the lid
>> and rim to remove excess paint put the lid on firmly with a few taps
>> from a small hammer. Don't have a problem with stuff going off and if
>> there is a skin it is easy to remove in tact.
>
> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ? or an inner cup
> that could be screwed inside the can and would then effectively raise the
> bottom surface of the can.

Like these?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20052&cat=1,190,44133&ap=1

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 05/07/2011 13:35, Mrcheerful wrote:
> Robin wrote:
>>> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
>>> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
>>> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
>>
>> Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
>> carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
>> oxygen (plus added water vapour).
>
>
> OR: put a thin plastic bag into the can and tuck it in so that it contacts
> the paint and leaves the open end outside the can, putting the lid on inside
> the open end of the bag would mean that air could not get to the paint
> surface. A bit like the old idea of a greaseproof paper round on top of
> jam.
>
>
I simply pour gently, a small amount of turps on the paint, this in my
experience stops it skimming and is easily stirred in before the next
use. Another thing I have found useful is if I use a paint brush then
need to continue the job the next day wiping any excess paint off then
firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
until the morrow.

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

In article <[email protected]>,
"Nightjar <\"cpb\"@" <"insertmysurnamehere> writes:
> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>> Huge wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>
>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>
>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>
>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>
>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>
>
> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
> on top, when you come to use it.

I've never had a skin form in any tin stored upside down.
Skin forms because refitted lid rarely seals perfectly and
you get slow air exchange, but it does seal much better if
you store the tin upside down (and is noticably harder to
open;-).

By the way, I noticed on the instructions on a tin it
said "do not open with a screwdriver". So what are you
supposed to use? I used a screwdriver...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[email protected] wrote in news:7af7179o3s8cq8fnprccdsvhql6hk58rl3@
4ax.com:

> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>>
>>Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
> It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
> always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
> HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
> oil.
>

My sister wanted to stain the deck with some 3 year old deck stain. ALL
the solids had settled on to the bottom, where it took some doing to get
them back in suspension again. (I used a paint mixer in the drill press.)

It may not keep the contents mixed, but perhaps it will make it easier to
mix the contents back together.

Puckdropper

===============================

Your kitchen blender works much better for those hard to break up solids.
Just don't forget to wash it well before your next protein shake and workout
and let the stain settle for a few weeks to remove fine air bubbles.

--

Eric

On 7/6/2011 6:42 AM, Andy Champ wrote:
> On 05/07/2011 11:33, Huge wrote:
>> Store the tins upside down.
>>
>
> You don't need to store them upside down (which as others have pointed
> out means any skin is under the paint and hard to deal with) simply
> inverting them once so paint seals the edge of the lid seems to make a
> difference to me.
>
> Andy

Makes sense.

On 7/5/11 9:39 AM, RobertL wrote:
>
> Surely the place to put the plastic sheet is lying on top of the
> paint. this separates it from the air.
>
> Robert
>

This is the only good advice you've gotten. The air inside the can is
enough to skin over the paint. Kitchen plastic wrap pushed down into the
can, touching the entire surface of the paint will keep air away from
the paint... then cap the can with the lid.

Works great on ice cream, too, to keep it from crystallizing or getting
freezer burn on the surface.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:36:34 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Huge wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>
>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>
>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>
>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>
>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>
> Just make sure you use a paint strainer after opening a can the second
> time.
>

This reminds of a question I did not quickly locate the answer to on the
web. I have never bought bought paint in greater than 1 gallon units.
They are easy to shake and pour into paint trays, etc. What is the
usual process for using a *5 gallon* container of paint? I assume it
has to be mixed really well (practical to do by hand?) and that a "paint
ladle" of some sort would be handy.

Bill

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 19:45:51 +0100, Andy Burns
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Lobster wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/07/2011 15:30, Moonraker wrote:
>>>
>>>> firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
>>>> until the morrow.
>>>
>>> I find a couple of layers of Tesco bags does the trick equally well
>>> actually - at least it's a use for the bloody things.
>>
>>Tesco bags are probably the worst choice for that, especially if they're
>>more than a few weeks old, their bags bio/photo/oxi-degrade very quickly
>>...
>>
>>> I employed a pro decorator a few months ago
>>> for the first time in my life. I was very intrigued that he had a new
>>> Special Box which he stored all his used brushes in;
>>
>>Been mentioned before, I think.
>>
>>http://www.brushmate.co.uk/
> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
> value your time highly enough"
> Every job gets a new brush.

Hmm!
£12 per brush @ 5 minutes to clean = £144 per hour, what does he paint or
does he use cr@p brushes?
I have some I paid about 15p each for but they ain't for putting gloss on
doors.

[email protected] wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 19:45:51 +0100, Andy Burns
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Been mentioned before, I think.
>>>
>>>http://www.brushmate.co.uk/
>
>>A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you
>>don't value your time highly enough"
>>Every job gets a new brush.
>
> He must be made of money unless he uses cheap brushes and by using
> cheap throw away brushes how does he produce a decent finish.
> This painter can't value his work very much.
>
> Stephen.
>
>
I buy semi expensive brushes. Can't imagine throwing them away after every
job. It does not take long to clean a brush specially if you use a paint
cleaning comb.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Man. 2010.1 Spring
KDE4.4
2.6.33.5-desktop-2mnb

On 7/7/2011 12:21 AM, HeyBub wrote:
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
>>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>>
>> I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
>> next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
>> down over paint trays and rollers.
>>
>> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
>> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
>> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.
>
> Try this technique:
>
> 1. Swish brush in 100% mineral spirits ten times. Remove excess (I use a
> brush spinner).
> 2. Swish brush in 50-50 mix of mineral spirits and alcohol ten times. Remove
> excess.
> 3. Swish brush in 100% alcohol ten times. Remove excess.

Don't forget to exhale ten times.

On 7/6/2011 5:28 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 7/5/11 9:39 AM, RobertL wrote:
>>
>> Surely the place to put the plastic sheet is lying on top of the
>> paint. this separates it from the air.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> This is the only good advice you've gotten. The air inside the can is
> enough to skin over the paint. Kitchen plastic wrap pushed down into the
> can, touching the entire surface of the paint will keep air away from
> the paint... then cap the can with the lid.
>
> Works great on ice cream, too, to keep it from crystallizing or getting
> freezer burn on the surface.
>
>

The only disadvantage (as I pointed out upthread) is that this creates a
bit of a mess when it has to be removed.

On 7/6/11 5:40 PM, Gib Bogle wrote:
> On 7/6/2011 5:28 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 7/5/11 9:39 AM, RobertL wrote:
>>>
>>> Surely the place to put the plastic sheet is lying on top of the
>>> paint. this separates it from the air.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> This is the only good advice you've gotten. The air inside the can is
>> enough to skin over the paint. Kitchen plastic wrap pushed down into the
>> can, touching the entire surface of the paint will keep air away from
>> the paint... then cap the can with the lid.
>>
>> Works great on ice cream, too, to keep it from crystallizing or getting
>> freezer burn on the surface.
>>
>>
>
> The only disadvantage (as I pointed out upthread) is that this creates a
> bit of a mess when it has to be removed.

Less of a mess than the skin? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/6/2011 8:21 AM, HeyBub wrote:
> Dave Liquorice wrote:

>> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
>> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
>> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.

For cleaning brushes, a spinner is mandatory. Something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/3dq464p

My method is to use a jar/can just big enough for the brush. Put in a
small amount of solvent and clean out the brush, then spin the brush in
a cardboard box. Dump the small amount of dirty solvent in a different
jar or can. Repeat several times.

Save the old dirty thinner, and next time, all the heavy pigments settle
to the bottom and the old thinner is now clean.. Use the old thinner to
clean next time, only using a bit of new thinner for the last couple of
cleans. This is really easy, uses almost no thinner and really keeps
your brushes nice.

You need 3 cans/jars to do this, one for storing old thinner, one to
clean the brush, and an intermediate one to store the newly dirty
thinner. When done, pour the dirty thinner into the old thinner storage
can. You can use lacquer thinner but lacquer suspends the pigments
forever, while turps or mineral spirits lets the pigments drop to the
bottom, leaving clean thinner.

Don't use your good oil brushes for water based paints (hide them from
your wife). Clean the cheaper plastic water brushes with just water and
the spinner, or throw them away after your wife paints (and never ever
cleans a brush)...

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

> Try this technique:
>
> 1. Swish brush in 100% mineral spirits ten times. Remove excess (I use a
> brush spinner).
> 2. Swish brush in 50-50 mix of mineral spirits and alcohol ten times. Remove
> excess.
> 3. Swish brush in 100% alcohol ten times. Remove excess.
>
> Done.
>
> For latex or water-based paints, add fabric softener to the water in which
> you swish the brush.
>
>


--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/7/2011 11:51 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
> Don't use your good oil brushes for water based paints (hide them from your
> wife). Clean the cheaper plastic water brushes with just water and the spinner,
> or throw them away after your wife paints (and never ever cleans a brush)...

I heard THAT. I've had more than one $20 Purdy brush ruined by the wife...

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 7/7/2011 2:21 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> In message<[email protected]>
> Jack Stein<[email protected]> wrote:

> By Lacquer thinners do you mean Cellulose thinner?

I don't know, by lacquer thinner I mean the stuff I used to paint cars
with when I was a kid, and now buy at Home Depot in a can that says
"lacquer thinner" on it.

> However using Cellulose/Lacquer type thinners will destroy the
> natural spring in the brush resulting in a useless floppy brush.

I believe you but I've used it often. I use lacquer thinner a lot for
all sorts of cleaning things. I just know that when I use mineral
spirits or paint thinner, the pigments settle out, but when I use
lacquer thinner, they seem to remain suspended indefinitely.

> You have described the above method the wrong way round though,
> Turps will coagulate the paint whereas Cellulose or as you call it
> lacquer thinner will draw the paint completely out of the bristle
> stock, as does mineral Naphtha but Naphtha will not destroy the
> spring in a natural bristle brush.

I guess you are saying to use lacquer for the initial heavy cleaning and
finish up with paint thinner? That would work but Paint thinner works
fine and I can reuse the thinner after the pigments all settle out. I
don't like using used lacquer thinner as it doesn't settle clear, even
after long periods, so I'm throwing out lots of thinner.

I haven't seen or used "turps" since I was a kid. I use paint thinner or
mineral spirits, because that's what I see on the shelves at a
reasonable cost. I don't even know what "Naphtha" is. I've seen the
word used a lot around here, and have looked it up a few times. I still
don't know what it is, and I ain't looking it up again, cause I know
I'll forget anyway. I think Naphtha was some kind of yellow soap when I
was a young?

--
Jack
You can't Tax your way into Prosperity!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/8/2011 7:14 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 5, 9:42 pm, "HeyBub"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Air passes through plastic sheet generally less than 4mm thick, but
>>> as a gasket I don't think this applies.
>>
>>> I solve the "air in paint can" problem by filling the can up with
>>> glass marbles to take up the space. I used to do this in my darkroom
>>> for my photo chemicals, but thats long gone! Glass of course doesn't
>>> react with the paint, and they stay on the bottom. A bonus is as you
>>> shake the can, they stir the paint! (Hold the lid on...)
>>
>>> The only problem at the beginning was raiding enough toy stores to
>>> get a gallon of marbles! The dollar store was a good find!
>>
>> You don't need to visit toy stores. Search the web for "marbles wholesale"
>>
>> Here's one place that sells about 500 5/8" marbles for $28 (500=half-gallon)
>> (smaller assortments available).
>>
>> http://www.landofmarbles.com/marble-sets-and-assortments.html
>>
>> Apparently the marble business is highly competitive...
>
> People keep losing them.

<rimshot>

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 7/8/2011 8:14 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 5, 9:42 pm, "HeyBub"<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Apparently the marble business is highly competitive...
>
> People keep losing them.

2 points, maybe more...
--
Jack
You're not yourself today, I noticed the improvement immediately!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/8/2011 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> In message<[email protected]>
> Jack Stein<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/7/2011 2:21 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> In message<[email protected]>
>>> Jack Stein<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> By Lacquer thinners do you mean Cellulose thinner?
>>
>> I don't know, by lacquer thinner I mean the stuff I used to paint cars
>> with when I was a kid, and now buy at Home Depot in a can that says
>> "lacquer thinner" on it.
>
> You must be from the USA.

Yes.

> Your lacquer thinner will be the same as what we in the UK call
> Cellulose thinner which is indeed used in vehicle painting or
> spraying.

The US has a bunch of names for lacquer types too, I don't understand
any of them.

> The lacquer/cellulose thinner is a very powerful solvent and has
> many uses, I have a five gallon tub of this in my garage.

When I was a kid painting cars and such, I always had a 5 gallon can of
the cheap stuff, for cleaning, primer coats and such. A gallon can of
the good, high gloss stuff. I don't have a clue what I get at Home
Depot, I don't paint cars any more.

> Mineral spirit is the same as Turps, but in the UK we call it
> Turpentine, Turps for short or turps substitute.

I think there are technical differences in the US as well, although most
people use the terms interchangeably. I threw in Terps just to be wordy:-)

> The thinner acts the same way as Naphtha both being very volatile,
> the mineral spirit however does not clean a paint brush on its own
> by simply standing the brush in the solvent,

I spin the hell out of it with a spinner. Usually comes pretty clean
first time, nice and clean the second, and really clean the third.

only after thorough
> cleaning the brush is it better served being suspended in mineral
> spirit which is almost exactly the same as white spirit that I
> believe you would call a Stoddard solvent in the USA.

Don't know about Stoddard solvent. After I clean a (good) brush I wrap
it in a cardboard wrapper that came with the brush, or one I made.

I don't even know what "Naphtha"
>> is. I've seen the word used a lot around here, and have looked
>> it up a few times. I still don't know what it is, and I ain't
>> looking it up again, cause I know I'll forget anyway. I think
>> Naphtha was some kind of yellow soap when I was a young?
>>
> As a reminder from the www,

The following reminder is the reason I quit looking it up. Whole lot of
words that makes it clear as mud to me. Naphtha sounds pretty much like
lacquer thinner to the untrained eye:-) I was right about the soap
however, and it was Fels Naphtha bar soap my mother used to have in the
laundry tubs. I replaced it with GoJo and Lava when I was into cars.

> Naphtha is a term usually restricted to a class of colourless,
> volatile, flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixtures. Obtained as one
> of the more volatile fractions in the fractional distillation of
> petroleum (when it is known as petroleum naphtha), in the
> fractional distillation of coal tar (coal-tar naphtha), and in a
> similar distillation of wood (wood naphtha), it is used widely as
> a solvent for various organic substances, such as fats and rubber,
> and in the making of varnish. Because of its dissolving property
> it is important as a cleaning fluid; it is also incorporated in
> certain laundry soaps. Coal-tar (aromatic) naphthas have greater
> solvent power than petroleum (aliphatic) naphthas.
> Originally the term naphtha designated a colourless flammable
> liquid obtained from the ground in Persia. Later it came to be
> applied to a number of other natural liquid substances having
> similar properties. Technically, gasoline and kerosene are
> considered naphthas.
>
> Stephen.
>


--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/5/2011 8:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2011 6:03 AM, steve robinson wrote:
>>> Nightjar wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>> Huge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>>>
>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>
>>> The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
>>> mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate
>>
>> Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
> It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
> always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
> HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
> oil.

Was "constant changing" mentioned??? I believe simply storing upside
down was what the conversation was all about. Sure constant changing
will help but not simply rotating to the upside down position.

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 06:34:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/6/2011 2:02 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:36:34 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>>
>>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>
>>> Just make sure you use a paint strainer after opening a can the second
>>> time.
>>>
>>
>> This reminds of a question I did not quickly locate the answer to on the
>> web. I have never bought bought paint in greater than 1 gallon units.
>> They are easy to shake and pour into paint trays, etc. What is the usual
>> process for using a *5 gallon* container of paint? I assume it has to be
>> mixed really well (practical to do by hand?) and that a "paint ladle" of
>> some sort would be handy.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>
>The 5 gallons get mixed if you pick a non stock color, but we get them
>shook regardless. You pour out of them just as you would a 1 gallon
>container, you just have to be more careful and have a paint brush handy
>to clean up the drips down the sides. The biggest problem with the 5
>gallon buckets is getting the lid off. A 5 in 1 comes in handy for
>that. also consider switching from a roller tray to a roller bucket.
>With the waste basket style paint buckets for rollers you can easily
>dump a gallon of paint into them and not waste time refilling all day
>long. We typically refill our roller paint buckets a couple times a day
>maybe three times on a long day. Plus they are much easier to carry around.
>
>
ALL of the 5 gallon paint pails I've ever bought/used had pour spout
like a 5 gallon pail of oil - so decanting is VERY simple, and
relatively clean. Just a swipe with the paint brush as you stop
pouting, and a quick wipe with a damp (thinners or spirits for oil
paint) rag before replacing the cap.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>
> I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
> next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
> down over paint trays and rollers.
>
> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.

You can get one size packs from screwfix and the like. I tend to get
cheapies and throw them for all undercoats and a Harris or something like
that for finishing and then immediately clean it.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:15:20 +0100, "john brook" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetable
>bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints
>and glues that come stored in tins.
>
>It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act like a
>'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal.

Might be a good idea if you don't clean the rim...

>But since air passes
>through plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in 'silvered' plastic
>bags) albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

Air passes through plastic sheet generally less than 4mm thick, but as a gasket
I don't think this applies.

I solve the "air in paint can" problem by filling the can up with glass marbles
to take up the space. I used to do this in my darkroom for my photo chemicals,
but thats long gone! Glass of course doesn't react with the paint, and they
stay on the bottom. A bonus is as you shake the can, they stir the paint! (Hold
the lid on...)

The only problem at the beginning was raiding enough toy stores to get a gallon
of marbles! The dollar store was a good find!

See the pic of my cleaned marbles drying on the stove top at
Alt.binaries.photos.original

john brook laid this down on his screen :
> Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up vegetable
> bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of varnishes, paints and
> glues that come stored in tins.
>
> It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they act like a
> 'washer' and hence give a more *airtight* seal. But since air passes through
> plastic bags (why long life bread is packaged in 'silvered' plastic bags)
> albeit slowly, would this be worth doing?

Once the lid is firmly back on, just turn it upside down. The what ever
it is inside will seal the gaps in the lid and prevent any more air
entering.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 7/6/2011 3:49 AM, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>
> I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
> next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
> down over paint trays and rollers.
>
> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.
>


Jeez learn to clean the brush. I would much much rather clean an oil
based paint or stain than water based. If you use mineral spirits, the
kind that comes in a metal container vs the plastic contain, you can
clean varnish out of a brush in a matter of seconds.

Keep in mind that is a good practice to clean the brush several times a
day even with water based, don't use paint thinner to clean the brush,
it dries much more slowly than mineral spirits and if you are painting
above your head you will get thinned paint running down the handle.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 19:45:51 +0100, Andy Burns
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Lobster wrote:
>
>> On 05/07/2011 15:30, Moonraker wrote:
>>
>>> firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
>>> until the morrow.
>>
>> I find a couple of layers of Tesco bags does the trick equally well
>> actually - at least it's a use for the bloody things.
>
>Tesco bags are probably the worst choice for that, especially if they're
>more than a few weeks old, their bags bio/photo/oxi-degrade very quickly ...
>
>> I employed a pro decorator a few months ago
>> for the first time in my life. I was very intrigued that he had a new
>> Special Box which he stored all his used brushes in;
>
>Been mentioned before, I think.
>
>http://www.brushmate.co.uk/
A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
value your time highly enough"
Every job gets a new brush.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:

> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
> on top, when you come to use it.

But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?

As for the plastic bag under lid can't see a reason for it provided
the lid and rim are in good condition. I always wipe around the lid
and rim to remove excess paint put the lid on firmly with a few taps
from a small hammer. Don't have a problem with stuff going off and if
there is a skin it is easy to remove in tact.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.

I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
down over paint trays and rollers.

Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:00:08 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>
> Without stirring it (or maybe after first stirring very carefully,
> without breaking the skin), you decant most of the paint off into
> another container. You then scrape off the sludge from the inside of the
> lid, add it to the paint you have decanted, and stir it in well.
>
> After you have used the paint, if there's still some left, you can pour
> it back unto the original tin until the next time you need it.

Gawd what a faff and lots of containers all mucky with paint...

> Once opened, I suspect that a re-sealed tin often allows small amounts
> of air to get in. Storing it upside down probably helps the lid to be
> absolutely air-tight - just make sure it doesn't leak!

See other comments about tins stuck to shelves. Think I'll stick with
cleaning lid rim and can carefully and tapping the lid fully home.
With maybe an inversion to get paint around the inner edges but store
the right way up.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 21:11:59 +0100, Andrew Gabriel
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Nightjar <\"cpb\"@" <"insertmysurnamehere> writes:
>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>> Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>
>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>
>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>
>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>
>>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>> on top, when you come to use it.
>
> I've never had a skin form in any tin stored upside down.
> Skin forms because refitted lid rarely seals perfectly and
> you get slow air exchange, but it does seal much better if
> you store the tin upside down (and is noticably harder to
> open;-).
>
> By the way, I noticed on the instructions on a tin it
> said "do not open with a screwdriver". So what are you
> supposed to use? I used a screwdriver...
>

Smile. Get to know the staff. And ask nicely in a Johnstone's decorator
centre. And they might give you a special paint tin opener.

That's what I did. Unfortunately not one of the nice Johnstone's branded
ones as they had run out, but a not so nice old Dulux one. Can't win 'em
all.

Rod

Steve Turner wrote:
> On 7/5/2011 6:19 AM, Mrcheerful wrote:
>> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>>>
>>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>>
>>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>>>
>>> As for the plastic bag under lid can't see a reason for it provided
>>> the lid and rim are in good condition. I always wipe around the lid
>>> and rim to remove excess paint put the lid on firmly with a few taps
>>> from a small hammer. Don't have a problem with stuff going off and
>>> if there is a skin it is easy to remove in tact.
>>
>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint
>> tin that can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ? or
>> an inner cup that could be screwed inside the can and would then
>> effectively raise the bottom surface of the can.
>
> Like these?
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20052&cat=1,190,44133&ap=1

dang, I was too late.

Robin wrote:
>> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
>> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
>> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
>
> Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
> carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
> oxygen (plus added water vapour).


OR: put a thin plastic bag into the can and tuck it in so that it contacts
the paint and leaves the open end outside the can, putting the lid on inside
the open end of the bag would mean that air could not get to the paint
surface. A bit like the old idea of a greaseproof paper round on top of
jam.

In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
<[email protected]> writes
>
> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
>can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?

I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
developer.
http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG

They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine with
fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)

--
Paul Giverin

My Photos:- www.pbase.com/vendee

[email protected] wrote:
> Air passes through plastic sheet generally less than 4mm thick, but
> as a gasket I don't think this applies.
>
> I solve the "air in paint can" problem by filling the can up with
> glass marbles to take up the space. I used to do this in my darkroom
> for my photo chemicals, but thats long gone! Glass of course doesn't
> react with the paint, and they stay on the bottom. A bonus is as you
> shake the can, they stir the paint! (Hold the lid on...)
>
> The only problem at the beginning was raiding enough toy stores to
> get a gallon of marbles! The dollar store was a good find!
>

You don't need to visit toy stores. Search the web for "marbles wholesale"

Here's one place that sells about 500 5/8" marbles for $28 (500=half-gallon)
(smaller assortments available).

http://www.landofmarbles.com/marble-sets-and-assortments.html

Apparently the marble business is highly competitive...

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:02:04 +0100, Charles <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 05/07/2011 12:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
>>> on top, when you come to use it.
>>
>> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
>> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>>
>
>As the man says. If the skin is on the top you can cut it and remove it
>... if underneath it will be mixed, broken and you will have to sieve
>the paint. :-)

Straining is necessary in either instance. Once my can of Bloxygen is
gone, I'll start using argon from my TIG welder to keep stop skinning.

--
Just getting back after a farkin' virus ate my computer.
I'm still without any email or usenet archives. <sigh>

On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 22:32:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/5/2011 8:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 07:45:44 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/5/2011 6:03 AM, steve robinson wrote:
>>>> Nightjar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>>> Huge wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>>>>>>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Store the tins upside down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>>>>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>>
>>>> The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
>>>> mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate
>>>
>>> Now that is a load, that will not keep the contents mixed.
>> It WILL help keep the paint from stratifying because the heavy parts
>> always sink to the bottom. Constantly changing where the "bottom" is
>> HELPS keep the paint from becoming a cake of pigment etc covered by
>> oil.
>
>Was "constant changing" mentioned??? I believe simply storing upside
>down was what the conversation was all about. Sure constant changing
>will help but not simply rotating to the upside down position.
>
>
>
Rotating is an action, so I assumed it was more than just turning it
over - which would be "inverting" it.

In message <[email protected]>, Rob <[email protected]>
writes
>On 6/07/2011 1:58 AM, Paul Giverin wrote:
>> In message <[email protected]>, Mrcheerful
>> <[email protected]> writes
>>>
>>> so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
>>> can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ?
>>
>> I've got a few concertina bottles in my darkroom for storing film
>> developer.
>> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/media/stock/000009EC.JPG
>>
>> They will collapse from 1 litre down to about 1/2 litre. Works fine with
>> fluid but I'm not sure about gloss paint. Can you imagine trying to
>> whack the lid on an concertining paint container ;-)
>>
>
>Darkroom - that's on the desktop nowdays.

Yebbut you can't escape to your desktop and lock the door for the
afternoon.

--
Paul Giverin

My Photos:- www.pbase.com/vendee

On 7/5/2011 9:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, lcb11211
> @swbelldotnet says...
>>
>> On 7/5/2011 7:27 AM, Robin wrote:
>>>> * When finished painting, return the unused paint to the can, then -
>>>> pay attention here - EXHALE three times into the can. This replaces
>>>> most of the oxygen with carbon dioxide.
>>>
>>> Only if you are an alien? Typical human exhalations have only 4%~5%
>>> carbon dioxide in place about the same amount of oxygen leaving ~15%
>>> oxygen (plus added water vapour).
>>>
>>
>> He left out holding your breath. Have you ever heard of holding your
>> breath before blowing out a candle?
>
> Nope. Neither has the wind.
>
>

When you hold your breath you emit less oxygen in you wind and you blow
"slowly". The point of holding your breath is to smother the flame and
the glowing wick so that it does not continue to smoke after the fire is
out.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:45:44 +0100, "Nightjar wrote:
>
>> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
>> not on top, when you come to use it.
>
> But how do you then stir the paint to get the oil back in without
> breaking the skin and get loads of bits in the paint?
>
> As for the plastic bag under lid can't see a reason for it provided
> the lid and rim are in good condition. I always wipe around the lid
> and rim to remove excess paint put the lid on firmly with a few taps
> from a small hammer. Don't have a problem with stuff going off and if
> there is a skin it is easy to remove in tact.

so what is actually needed (dragon's den here I come) is a paint tin that
can be made shorter, perhaps collapsible corrugations ? or an inner cup
that could be screwed inside the can and would then effectively raise the
bottom surface of the can.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:30:02 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> A painter I know said "if you clean and re-use your brushes you don't
>> value your time highly enough" Every job gets a new brush.
>
> I use the cling film trick when a job needs to go from one day to the
> next. Also a couple of supermarket bags one from each end and tucked
> down over paint trays and rollers.
>
> Cleaning non-water soluable paints etc is a PITA. I'd go for the new
> brush everytime if I could find a source of decent brushes at a
> sensible price that aren't part of a various sized set.

Try this technique:

1. Swish brush in 100% mineral spirits ten times. Remove excess (I use a
brush spinner).
2. Swish brush in 50-50 mix of mineral spirits and alcohol ten times. Remove
excess.
3. Swish brush in 100% alcohol ten times. Remove excess.

Done.

For latex or water-based paints, add fabric softener to the water in which
you swish the brush.

On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
> Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
>> large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
>>>
>>>> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
>>>
>>> Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>>
>> Store the tins upside down.
>
> Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
>

With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint, not
on top, when you come to use it.

Colin Bignell

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> john brook <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Someone I know puts a couple of very thin plastic sheets (cut up
> > vegetable bags from the supermarket)under the tin lids of tins of
> > varnishes, paints and glues that come stored in tins.
>
> > It makes the lids come on and off very easily and he claims they
> > act like a 'washer' and hence give a more airtight seal. But
> > since air passes through plastic bags (why long life bread is
> > packaged in 'silvered' plastic bags) albeit slowly, would this be
> > worth doing?
>
> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the large
> quantity of new air when you replace the lid.

Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom

Huge wrote:

> On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News) <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > steve robinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
> large >> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
> >
> >> Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
> >
> > Or fill the space with some inert gas?
>
> Store the tins upside down.

Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.

Nightjar wrote:

> On 05/07/2011 11:36, steve robinson wrote:
> > Huge wrote:
> >
> >>On 2011-07-05, Dave Plowman (News)<[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > In article<[email protected]>,
> >>> steve robinson<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> The reason paint goes off after being opened and used is the
> >>large>> > quantity of new air when you replace the lid.
> > > >
> > > > > Your better dropping a peace of plastic in the bottom
> > > >
> > > > Or fill the space with some inert gas?
> > >
> > > Store the tins upside down.
> >
> > Makes no difference once the tin is opened and new air introduced.
> >
>
> With oil based paints, it ensures that the skin is under the paint,
> not on top, when you come to use it.
>
> Colin Bignell

The reason for rotating tins was to help keep the oils and pigments
mixed, otherwise they eventually seperate

Lobster wrote:

> On 05/07/2011 15:30, Moonraker wrote:
>
>> firmly wrapping the paint brush in cling film, keeps the brush usable
>> until the morrow.
>
> I find a couple of layers of Tesco bags does the trick equally well
> actually - at least it's a use for the bloody things.

Tesco bags are probably the worst choice for that, especially if they're
more than a few weeks old, their bags bio/photo/oxi-degrade very quickly ...

> I employed a pro decorator a few months ago
> for the first time in my life. I was very intrigued that he had a new
> Special Box which he stored all his used brushes in;

Been mentioned before, I think.

http://www.brushmate.co.uk/