I'm in the process of having a home built (my first) and am thinking
about having a 240 volt line wired in. To do this I have to pay $200
for a change order fee (added BS) plus the cost of wiring it in I
suppose. I was wondering if it is possible to have it wired in later
on, and approximately what it would cost to do so. I appears the power
wires are underground, since I don't see any poles in the area. The
contractor said something to the effect that if it were done later it
wouldn't be covered, or would void the house warranty (electrical
part, I assume). So my question is, does paying the $200 sound
reasonable, or wait and pay later. At the moment, the only tool I have
that can be switched to 240 v is my bandsaw, but I'm planning ahead in
case I get that cabinet saw. Also, my shop will initially be in the
garage, but I plan to build a shop in the back yard someday and will
have to have power run to the building anyway.
Thanks,
Tom
"Tom M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the process of having a home built (my first) and am thinking
> about having a 240 volt line wired in. To do this I have to pay $200
> for a change order fee (added BS) plus the cost of wiring it in I
> suppose. I was wondering if it is possible to have it wired in later
> on, and approximately what it would cost to do so. I appears the power
> wires are underground, since I don't see any poles in the area. The
> contractor said something to the effect that if it were done later it
> wouldn't be covered, or would void the house warranty (electrical
> part, I assume). So my question is, does paying the $200 sound
> reasonable, or wait and pay later. At the moment, the only tool I have
> that can be switched to 240 v is my bandsaw, but I'm planning ahead in
> case I get that cabinet saw. Also, my shop will initially be in the
> garage, but I plan to build a shop in the back yard someday and will
> have to have power run to the building anyway.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
Are you saying that the house is only being supplied with a single 110V rail
and neutral. Ask the contractor how you are to run cookers, stove tops,
water heaters and washing machines, they all run off 220V. Not being a
native of the US I don't know all your regs, but all the houses I've seen
are supplied with 2 110V rails, anti phase and neutral, its not a true 3
phase supply otherwise you would get 155V p/p.
Or are you saying that it would cost an additional $200 to run it to where
you specify?
When you eventually complete your shop, some of the medium size DCs are also
dual voltage and pull a hell of a starting current due to the size and mass
of the impeller, also depending where you live you might want a shop AC as
well...
Just food for thought.
Bernard R
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
<snip>
> 155v?! How do you figure that? Is 208v just an expression?
> Where the hell are you from that the houses get 110v, and why don't you go
> back there? In the US houses have to get 120v.
Thank you for the correction on the 208V, a mental aberation on my part.
As far as the 110V is concerned the following is an extract from the
Electrical Wiring FAQ Part 1.
"One thing where things might get a bit confusing is the different numbers
people bandy about for the voltage of a circuit. One person might talk about
110V, another 117V or another 120V. These are all, in fact, exactly the same
thing... In North America the utility companies are required to supply a
split-phase 240 volt (+-5%) feed to your house. This works out as two 120V
+- 5% legs. ...... This FAQ has chosen to be consistent with calling them
"110V" and "220V", except when actually saying what the measured voltage
will be."
I merely go along with your own convertions.
Bernard R
I would have 4 put in and make sure that the electrician uses standard
sockets so you can buy the plugs at the Borg. (cabinet saw, jointer, planer,
bandsaw. You may not have all of these now, but you'll kick yourself later
on if you upgrade.)
Montyhp
"GARY" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I would ALWAYS think about possible future plans when buildling. Add
> extra outlets, etc. It could avoid tearing out a wall or digging another
> trench. $200 doesn't sound especially bad.
>
> Gary
>
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Montyhp" <montyhp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I would have 4 put in and make sure that the electrician uses standard
> > sockets so you can buy the plugs at the Borg. (cabinet saw, jointer,
planer,
> > bandsaw. You may not have all of these now, but you'll kick yourself
later
> > on if you upgrade.)
>
> There's a whole bunch of different style sockets used for 220V service.
> You need to give the electrician something better than "standard
> socket". If that's all you tell him, he'll have to guess what you mean
> and you may not be happy with his guess.
>
> My guess is that you want a 6-20R, which is a grounded 20 amp 2-pole
> (i.e. 220V) outlet which will accept both 6-20P (20 amp) and 6-15P (15
> amp) plugs. The 6-15P is (in my experience) the most likely plug you're
> going to find on a 220V machine up to about 3HP intended for the
> consumer or low-end industrial market.
>
> But, the real answer is to look at the specs for the machines you're
> interested in having and seeing what kind of plugs they come with. If
> you don't understand the specs, sit down with your electrician, show him
> all the spec sheets, and say, "I want outlets I can plug these things
> into".
Most machines come without plugs. Go buy 3 or 4 plugs at Home Depot and
show them to the electrician. Then put them away and pull them out when you
buy a machine.
Montyhp
Your clothes dryer runs on 240v, so your home had better come wired for it.
"Tom M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the process of having a home built (my first) and am thinking
> about having a 240 volt line wired in. To do this I have to pay $200
> for a change order fee (added BS) plus the cost of wiring it in I
> suppose. I was wondering if it is possible to have it wired in later
> on, and approximately what it would cost to do so. I appears the power
> wires are underground, since I don't see any poles in the area. The
> contractor said something to the effect that if it were done later it
> wouldn't be covered, or would void the house warranty (electrical
> part, I assume). So my question is, does paying the $200 sound
> reasonable, or wait and pay later. At the moment, the only tool I have
> that can be switched to 240 v is my bandsaw, but I'm planning ahead in
> case I get that cabinet saw. Also, my shop will initially be in the
> garage, but I plan to build a shop in the back yard someday and will
> have to have power run to the building anyway.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
If you are really thinking about this, price adding several extra outlets. You
might find there is a significant economy of scale. You will only pay the $200
once and the outlets will be priced based on labor and materials(plus profit.)
The $200 is to cover the paperwork, including filing a modified electrical
permit. These are usually priced, based on the number of switches and outlets.
Builders usually don't like to get caught cheating the building permit folks
out of fees. It makes the inspectors cranky. ;-)
If you call an electrician later you will have a trip charge and the materials,
labor and profit is likely to be higher. It may also affect the warranty on the
house.
Joe Wells wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:55:47 -0400, Nova wrote:
>
> > Toller wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> All houses have 240v,
> >
> > Mine didn't.
>
> Didn't have 240v to your breaker/fuse box, or didn't have a 240v circuit
> wired? Big difference.
I didn't have 240V from the pole to the house. It's not uncommon in old
homes.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:30:55 -0400, Nova <[email protected]>
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
> >I didn't have 240V from the pole to the house. It's not uncommon in old
> >homes.
>
> Are you still running Edison DC there, Yack? Whatta hoot!
The Niagara Falls hydroelectric plant has been AC since it started in 1896. It
was 25 Hz, but AC.
By the way, the last time I lost commercial power at my house was due to an ice
storm. It was in 1977.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > I merely go along with your own convertions.
> >
> So, the FAQ (whatever that is) states it is really 120v, and never 110v
(as
> that is more than 5% out of spec), yet choses to use an incorrect term.
>
> You, knowing the FAQ is wrong, choose to follow it's error.
For many years, the house voltage was quoted a 110/220. I have no idea why
it would have been that way, but that is what Philadelphia Electric called
it and what I called it for many years. Still do actually. Has there been
any changes in what the power companies supply over the years?
I see motors are rated as 115/230. Why would they rate them at those
voltages if the 120/240 is the standard?
Why are incandescent lamps sometimes rated as 120/130 volts? Do you have to
rewire the filament to the supplied voltage? ;)
Ed
>
> Are you saying that the house is only being supplied with a single 110V
rail
> and neutral. Ask the contractor how you are to run cookers, stove tops,
> water heaters and washing machines, they all run off 220V. Not being a
> native of the US I don't know all your regs, but all the houses I've seen
> are supplied with 2 110V rails, anti phase and neutral, its not a true 3
> phase supply otherwise you would get 155V p/p.
155v?! How do you figure that? Is 208v just an expression?
Where the hell are you from that the houses get 110v, and why don't you go
back there? In the US houses have to get 120v.
>
> Or are you saying that it would cost an additional $200 to run it to where
> you specify?
Geez, if you bothered to read the OP you would know that is strictly for the
change order; the work is extra.
> Just food for thought.
Well, it is food that has been digested.
All houses have 240v, so certainly it can be done later.
Where is the breaker box with respect to the garage? That will determine
what it will cost to run a circuit there.
What you do now will have no effect on what it costs to run a circuit to the
new workshop later on, so if you won't need 240 until then, it would be a
waste to do anything now.
"Bill Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Your clothes dryer runs on 240v, so your home had better come wired for
it.
>
Gas Dryer?
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:20:53 -0400, Nova <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Are you still running Edison DC there, Yack? Whatta hoot!
>
>The Niagara Falls hydroelectric plant has been AC since it started in 1896. It
>was 25 Hz, but AC.
Ayup. I read a book on Edison last year and cringed (again) when
I reread how he stuck to DC and got skunked by Westinghouse.
>By the way, the last time I lost commercial power at my house was due to an ice
>storm. It was in 1977.
Amazing. I've lost it here in "modern" Grants Pass several times
for several hours since moving here 2 years ago. I already had a
kero lamp and bought a propane single-burner stove for the times
I had to warm my coffee by gas. Batteries fueled the radio and
I had a rockin' good time.
-------------------------------------------------------------
* * Humorous T-shirts Online
* Norm's Got Strings * Wondrous Website Design
* * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
I "stole" the 240v line to the kitchen stove (there's a gas stove) and
put into my shop. I could have taken the 240v from the laundry just
as easily, but decided to leave it because so many folks like an
electric dryer more than having an electric stove.
On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:09:28 -0500, "Bill Price" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Your clothes dryer runs on 240v, so your home had better come wired for it.
>
>"Tom M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm in the process of having a home built (my first) and am thinking
>> about having a 240 volt line wired in. To do this I have to pay $200
>> for a change order fee (added BS) plus the cost of wiring it in I
>> suppose. I was wondering if it is possible to have it wired in later
>> on, and approximately what it would cost to do so. I appears the power
>> wires are underground, since I don't see any poles in the area. The
>> contractor said something to the effect that if it were done later it
>> wouldn't be covered, or would void the house warranty (electrical
>> part, I assume). So my question is, does paying the $200 sound
>> reasonable, or wait and pay later. At the moment, the only tool I have
>> that can be switched to 240 v is my bandsaw, but I'm planning ahead in
>> case I get that cabinet saw. Also, my shop will initially be in the
>> garage, but I plan to build a shop in the back yard someday and will
>> have to have power run to the building anyway.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>
>
I'd like to thank everybody for their input...it's been very helpful.
Admittedly, my knowledge is not very good on this subject. I did find
out the house has a 220/240 line going to the laundry area already, so
there is a line coming into the house. I decided that since I have no
immediate need for 220 at this time, that I think I'll pass on it for
now. I'm also thinking that by the time I need it I'll have a shop
built in back (my wife hopes so), in which case I'd have to hire an
electrician to run power to it anyway. There are a lot of good
arguements for and against, and it would be nice to have power in the
garage, just in case, but at this point I'm trying to scrape every
penny I can for closing and other related moving expenses. Thanks
again for your help.
Tom
"Mike M" <mikem14nospamat.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just a suggestion, I would try to visit the site and talk to the
> electrician. Give him the $200 and get him to stub in some empty
> conduit to the crawl space or attic in the garage and near the panel.
> As far as the future shop goes same idea. Then when your ready to
> proceed its easy to get the power into the panel with out having to
> cut into anything.
>
> MikeM
>
>
That sounds like a great suggestion.
Bob
>
> I merely go along with your own convertions.
>
So, the FAQ (whatever that is) states it is really 120v, and never 110v (as
that is more than 5% out of spec), yet choses to use an incorrect term.
You, knowing the FAQ is wrong, choose to follow it's error.
So how does it become MY convertion? And, just what is a convertion?
Just a suggestion, I would try to visit the site and talk to the
electrician. Give him the $200 and get him to stub in some empty
conduit to the crawl space or attic in the garage and near the panel.
As far as the future shop goes same idea. Then when your ready to
proceed its easy to get the power into the panel with out having to
cut into anything.
MikeM
On 4 Apr 2004 15:49:21 -0700, [email protected] (Tom M.) wrote:
>I'd like to thank everybody for their input...it's been very helpful.
>Admittedly, my knowledge is not very good on this subject. I did find
>out the house has a 220/240 line going to the laundry area already, so
>there is a line coming into the house. I decided that since I have no
>immediate need for 220 at this time, that I think I'll pass on it for
>now. I'm also thinking that by the time I need it I'll have a shop
>built in back (my wife hopes so), in which case I'd have to hire an
>electrician to run power to it anyway. There are a lot of good
>arguements for and against, and it would be nice to have power in the
>garage, just in case, but at this point I'm trying to scrape every
>penny I can for closing and other related moving expenses. Thanks
>again for your help.
>
>Tom
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:30:55 -0400, Nova <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Joe Wells wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:55:47 -0400, Nova wrote:
>>
>> > Toller wrote:
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >> All houses have 240v,
>> >
>> > Mine didn't.
>>
>> Didn't have 240v to your breaker/fuse box, or didn't have a 240v circuit
>> wired? Big difference.
>
>I didn't have 240V from the pole to the house. It's not uncommon in old
>homes.
Are you still running Edison DC there, Yack? Whatta hoot!
--
The State always moves slowly and grudgingly towards any purpose that
accrues to society's advantage, but moves rapidly and with alacrity
towards one that accrues to its own advantage; nor does it ever move
towards social purposes on its own initiative, but only under heavy
pressure, while its motion towards anti-social purposes is self-sprung.
- Albert Jay Nock
- http://diversify.com Web Programming for curmudgeons and others. -
"Montyhp" <montyhp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would have 4 put in and make sure that the electrician uses standard
> sockets so you can buy the plugs at the Borg. (cabinet saw, jointer, planer,
> bandsaw. You may not have all of these now, but you'll kick yourself later
> on if you upgrade.)
There's a whole bunch of different style sockets used for 220V service.
You need to give the electrician something better than "standard
socket". If that's all you tell him, he'll have to guess what you mean
and you may not be happy with his guess.
My guess is that you want a 6-20R, which is a grounded 20 amp 2-pole
(i.e. 220V) outlet which will accept both 6-20P (20 amp) and 6-15P (15
amp) plugs. The 6-15P is (in my experience) the most likely plug you're
going to find on a 220V machine up to about 3HP intended for the
consumer or low-end industrial market.
But, the real answer is to look at the specs for the machines you're
interested in having and seeing what kind of plugs they come with. If
you don't understand the specs, sit down with your electrician, show him
all the spec sheets, and say, "I want outlets I can plug these things
into".
In article <[email protected]>,
Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
> I didn't have 240V from the pole to the house. It's not uncommon in old
> homes.
The house I grew up in (suburban NJ) was build in the 1950's. It only
had 110V service.
In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>All houses have 240v, so certainly it can be done later.
>Where is the breaker box with respect to the garage? That will determine
>what it will cost to run a circuit there.
>
>What you do now will have no effect on what it costs to run a circuit to the
>new workshop later on, so if you won't need 240 until then, it would be a
>waste to do anything now.
It's certainly less expensive to have the electrician run that circuit now at
the same time that he's installing everything else (i.e. during electrical
rough-in, *before* the drywall goes up), than it will be to have him do it
later *after* the drywall is up.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> "Tom M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm in the process of having a home built (my first) and am thinking
> > about having a 240 volt line wired in. To do this I have to pay $200
> > for a change order fee (added BS) plus the cost of wiring it in I
> > suppose.
Yes, it is BS, but considering the price of a new house, it is very little
to do it right.
> I was wondering if it is possible to have it wired in later
> > on, and approximately what it would cost to do so. I appears the power
> > wires are underground, since I don't see any poles in the area. The
> > contractor said something to the effect that if it were done later it
> > wouldn't be covered, or would void the house warranty (electrical
> > part, I assume).
You will have 240 coming in from the street to the panel. The added cost
and potential problems are dependent on the location of the panel and the
location of the proposed outlet. If the panle is on the same wall but on
the opposite side, it is a simple job that takes 20 minutes. If the wire
has to be fished through finished areas, it can tae a day and cost far more
that what it will cost now.
> > Also, my shop will initially be in the
> > garage, but I plan to build a shop in the back yard someday and will
> > have to have power run to the building anyway.
Talk to the electrician. It may be better to have a sub panel put in the
present shop that can be carried to the new shop at a later date. I'm not
up on all the codes for something like that, but he should be. It could
save you a bundle later if you prepare now. Again, this depends on location
of the power feeds, etc. A sub panel in the shop is better than just having
a 240 line anyway. You can have the entire shop on a panel right in the
work area instead of having to traipse sawdust through the house to reset a
breaker.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
> For many years, the house voltage was quoted a 110/220. I have no idea
why
> it would have been that way, but that is what Philadelphia Electric called
> it and what I called it for many years. Still do actually. Has there
been
> any changes in what the power companies supply over the years?
>
> I see motors are rated as 115/230. Why would they rate them at those
> voltages if the 120/240 is the standard?
>
> Why are incandescent lamps sometimes rated as 120/130 volts? Do you have
to
> rewire the filament to the supplied voltage? ;)
> Ed
>
I posted a similar question to alt.home.repair a couple years ago.
Some people said that voltage actually used to be lower years ago and has
only recently been standardized on 120v. Others said that motors frequently
encounter large voltage drops, so they are designed to work at 115v.
Beyond that, your guess is a good as mine.