Joinery suggestions

On 10/17/2012 9:14 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 8:57 AM, Gramp's shop wrote:
>
>> I'm building a small coffee table out of reclaimed cherry, which
>> includes some nominal 2x6 door jambs rescued from a bank. The top
>> will be 1x30x30 solid cherry with the 2x6 as the border. I plan on
>> letting the top float in dados 1/4" or so below the surface of the
>> border.
>>
>> Question 1: I want to miter the corners of the 2x6. Will a simple
>> miter glued with Titebond II be sufficient? Or do I need to create
>> some tenons? (Note to Leon: If you'd like to come over with your
>> Domino, I've got some Guiness in the fridge).
>
> You will definitely want to reinforce the inherently weak miter joint
> used in the above scenario.
>
> Typical solution is either biscuits to reinforce the miter joint; or
> splines.
>
> The groove in the opposing miters for splines can be easily cut with a
> table saw blade and one judicious move of the fence.
>
> Splines would be the strongest solution, although biscuits would do the
> job. Your choice.
>
>> Question 2: I plan on using 2x2 straight legs. Mortise & tenon here?
>> Other options?
>
> Absolutely use some type of M&T joint ... floating or traditional. To do
> otherwise would take it out of the realm of a furniture project and put
> it firmly into the cheesy TV DIY genre. ;)
>
>
Where is your shop? ;~)

Naturally I would go with Domino's. Followed by dowels and or biscuits.

Swingman wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 8:28 AM, Dave wrote:
>
>> Even I find myself questioning a few of the claims about other
>> Festool products, but the Domino I bought? It was worth every cent.
>
> Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
> these days, and join the club ... :)

Thank goodness! I feel like I'm in good company. If Karl does not own one,
then I don't have to feel inadequate. No dig on Karl, but if he can produce
the work he does, and is as focused on quality as he is, and he doesn't own
one, then I'm feeling less pressure to go out and spend the money I
otherwise would have spent on my wife's birthday present...

Of course, he has an unfair advantage - he gets to use Leon's Festools
Undercover Sales and Marketing Agent demo tools...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

>
> You belong to the snooty Multi-router club. LOL

There's the trademark Undercover Sales and Marketing Agent enticer - make
them think you are "complimenting them"...

>
> "Money being no object", do you think you would buy both sizes of
> Domono's?

And now - the teaser...

>
> If I were you I would get the smaller Domino like mine. I think that
> you would get a lot more use out of the smaller one than the larger
> one. You do have the multi-router for the bigger jobs. Keep in mind
> that I have used thousands of Domino's.

Notice the clever downplay of additional purchases - designed to make the
buyer want the other stuff even more. Man - this guy is good!

>
> Then again, you always have access to mine if you chose to go with the
> bigger one.

Ohhhhhh... hook baited, hook set, and now for the jerk...

Man - this guy ain't just good - he's very good!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:23:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Then again, you always have access to mine if you chose to go with the
>bigger one.

Makes complete sense. You would each have a different sized Domino and
the ability to swap them to each other.

Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:33:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> In other words - a good solution but not one worthy of Karl's
>> advocacy. Note the use of terms like "limited budget" and "time to
>> drill multiple holes" - the voice of the expert who likes to talk
>> down to those around him. Thinly veiled supremacy.
>
> Garbage! Until you own and use a Festool Domino, you *just can't*
> comprehend its ease and use, the accuracy and time saving that it
> provides. Criticize Festool owners all you want, but your comment
> makes you look like a jealous wannabe. ~ Someone who can't or won't
> spend the money and ultimately finds himself left with the base option
> of criticism.
>

I retracted my regretable statement - perhaps you did not see it before this
response. As for Festools - I in no way criticize Festool owners. I just
don't own any, and I'm not jealous. Just can't see where they would benefit
me enough for what I do. Limited amount of money to spend on tools of
different sorts, and I have to pick and choose where I'll go over the edge,
and where I'll be content with regular stuff.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

>

>
> Where is your shop? ;~)
>
>
>
> Naturally I would go with Domino's. Followed by dowels and or biscuits.

Racine, WI. At this writing, there is one fewer Guiness in the fridge, but plenty more where that came from.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:24:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Festools far into that category for me.
>Nothing to criticize - just questions, wondering, and maybe plans for
>sometime down the road.

You can't to go into a store and try something like a Domino out.
You're afraid that you might buy one on the spot. Obviously, you've
got a death grip on your wallet.

I understand completely.

On 10/17/2012 9:14 AM, Swingman wrote:

> Typical solution is either biscuits to reinforce the miter joint; or
> splines.

Here you go ... pictures worth a thousand words:

http://www.craftsmanspace.com/knowledge/mitered-woodworking-joints.html

http://tinyurl.com/braequv


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 10/18/2012 11:11 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:57:30 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
>> these days, and join the club ... :)
>
> Yeah, well, we all know you're a charter member of the Leon Own a New
> Tool club. LOAN-T for short. :)
>

We are part of the FIG. Festool Investors Group.

On 10/18/2012 8:57 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 8:28 AM, Dave wrote:
>
>> Even I find myself questioning a few of the claims about other Festool
>> products, but the Domino I bought? It was worth every cent.
>
> Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
> these days, and join the club ... :)
>


Well!

You belong to the snooty Multi-router club. LOL

"Money being no object", do you think you would buy both sizes of Domono's?

If I were you I would get the smaller Domino like mine. I think that
you would get a lot more use out of the smaller one than the larger one.
You do have the multi-router for the bigger jobs. Keep in mind that I
have used thousands of Domino's.

Then again, you always have access to mine if you chose to go with the
bigger one.

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:57:43 AM UTC-7, Gramp's shop wrote:
> I'm building a small coffee table out of reclaimed cherry, which includes=
some nominal 2x6 door jambs rescued from a bank. The top will be 1x30x30 s=
olid cherry with the 2x6 as the border. I plan on letting the top float in =
dados 1/4" or so below the surface of the border. Question 1: I want to mit=
er the corners of the 2x6. Will a simple miter glued with Titebond II be su=
fficient? Or do I need to create some tenons? (Note to Leon: If you'd like =
to come over with your Domino, I've got some Guiness in the fridge). Questi=
on 2: I plan on using 2x2 straight legs. Mortise & tenon here? Other option=
s? TIA Larry

Yes reinforce the standing miter. A spline would be sufficent. Could cut a =
stopped dado so you don't see the kerf. Or dowels from outside one edge.

Not sure how legs are attached from description. Usually legs would have an=
apron under the top and back from the edge. This apron would be M&T to the=
legs. However, if I understand you design, if the "border" hangs a few inc=
hes below the botton of the table top, you could tuck the legs into the cor=
ners underneath and scre into the legs through the boarder. This also could=
be used to stiffen the miter vs the other methods. If you screw form outsi=
de you can counter bore and plug the holes. But with properly calculated sc=
rew lengths or maybe corner brackets, you could screw on the underside and =
hide the screws completly. This is not an elegant or classic woodworking ap=
proach but should address the need if indeed there is no apron.

Swingman wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 10:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Should you tire of advice from knowledgeable, experienced people, you
>> can read the following for a change-of-pace. :)
>>
>> I recently bought the Beadlock basic jig:
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18088
>
> Another "loose tenon" form of M&T joinery, as previously suggested ...
> and an excellent one for those without dedicated tools, on a limited
> budget, and with the time to drill multiple holes for a project.

In other words - a good solution but not one worthy of Karl's advocacy.
Note the use of terms like "limited budget" and "time to drill multiple
holes" - the voice of the expert who likes to talk down to those around him.
Thinly veiled supremacy.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:33:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>>> In other words - a good solution but not one worthy of Karl's
>>> advocacy. Note the use of terms like "limited budget" and "time to
>>> drill multiple holes" - the voice of the expert who likes to talk
>>> down to those around him. Thinly veiled supremacy.
>>
>> Garbage! Until you own and use a Festool Domino, you *just can't*
>> comprehend its ease and use, the accuracy and time saving that it
>> provides. Criticize Festool owners all you want, but your comment
>> makes you look like a jealous wannabe. ~ Someone who can't or won't
>> spend the money and ultimately finds himself left with the base
>> option of criticism.
>>
>
> I retracted my regretable statement - perhaps you did not see it
> before this response. As for Festools - I in no way criticize
> Festool owners. I just don't own any, and I'm not jealous. Just
> can't see where they would benefit me enough for what I do. Limited
> amount of money to spend on tools of different sorts, and I have to
> pick and choose where I'll go over the edge, and where I'll be
> content with regular stuff.

I should have added that I do like poking Leon a bit ever since he was outed
as an Undercover Festool Sales and Marketing agent - but that's only for his
own safety...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 10/18/2012 8:28 AM, Dave wrote:

> Even I find myself questioning a few of the claims about other Festool
> products, but the Domino I bought? It was worth every cent.

Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
these days, and join the club ... :)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:33:36 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> I retracted my regretable statement - perhaps you did not see it
>> before this response. As for Festools - I in no way criticize
>> Festool owners. I just don't own any, and I'm not jealous. Just
>> can't see where they would benefit me enough for what I do. Limited
>> amount of money to spend on tools of different sorts, and I have to
>> pick and choose where I'll go over the edge, and where I'll be
>> content with regular stuff.
>
> Yup. Saw your retraction some five or so messages further on, but it
> was too late for me to cancel my reply by that time.
>
> And, I understand the money thing too, I'm sure that's a big concern
> by most every Festool naysayer. That's fine, but the most of the
> criticisms aren't worded just as a money thing, they're what I'd
> categorize as personal attacks.

So - just to try to be clear... I do not consider myself a naysayer. Don't
want you to think that my questions or comments were in that vein of
thought. Certainly not personal attacks. You might have developed that
perception, and I'd encourage you to abandon it. I have great respect for
tools and other things that are way out over the edge - that's why I
explained about my guitars. Festools far into that category for me.
Nothing to criticize - just questions, wondering, and maybe plans for
sometime down the road.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 10/17/2012 11:50 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

> I don't know you folks that well, but I am indeed on a limited budget
> for dedicated tools (especially "green" ones), and am glad to hear that
> the beadlock system is an "excellent" choice for a guy like me. I can't
> say for sure if that was "talking down" or not, but I didn't detect it.
>
> I'm sure the Domino is much faster, but the Beadlock was plenty quick
> and easy for me, right out of the box.

Yep, just take the words at face value, exactly as stated, and without
any personal problems/baggage being interjected ...no "talking down" was
intended.

Again, the Beadlock system is indeed an excellent, cost effective
loose/floating tenon solution. On a large project it can be a bit time
consuming when drilling that many holes with a single bit tool. DAMHIKT

Not everyone needs one, but anyone who wants to argue that a dedicated
tool is not more "efficient" for the task, time wise, is simply being
argumentative.

Nuff said ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:24:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Festools far into that category for me.
>> Nothing to criticize - just questions, wondering, and maybe plans for
>> sometime down the road.
>
> You can't to go into a store and try something like a Domino out.
> You're afraid that you might buy one on the spot. Obviously, you've
> got a death grip on your wallet.
>
> I understand completely.

Somewhat guilty as charged. Though, I'm not afraid to open it a slight
amount for the right tools that I need at the time. I just close it real
quick before I get carried away...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:33:36 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>I retracted my regretable statement - perhaps you did not see it before this
>response. As for Festools - I in no way criticize Festool owners. I just
>don't own any, and I'm not jealous. Just can't see where they would benefit
>me enough for what I do. Limited amount of money to spend on tools of
>different sorts, and I have to pick and choose where I'll go over the edge,
>and where I'll be content with regular stuff.

Yup. Saw your retraction some five or so messages further on, but it
was too late for me to cancel my reply by that time.

And, I understand the money thing too, I'm sure that's a big concern
by most every Festool naysayer. That's fine, but the most of the
criticisms aren't worded just as a money thing, they're what I'd
categorize as personal attacks.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:57:30 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
>these days, and join the club ... :)

Yeah, well, we all know you're a charter member of the Leon Own a New
Tool club. LOAN-T for short. :)

On 10/17/2012 9:57 AM, Gramp's shop wrote:
> I'm building a small coffee table out of reclaimed cherry, which includes some nominal 2x6 door jambs rescued from a bank. The top will be 1x30x30 solid cherry with the 2x6 as the border. I plan on letting the top float in dados 1/4" or so below the surface of the border.
>
> Question 1: I want to miter the corners of the 2x6. Will a simple miter glued with Titebond II be sufficient? Or do I need to create some tenons? (Note to Leon: If you'd like to come over with your Domino, I've got some Guiness in the fridge).
>
> Question 2: I plan on using 2x2 straight legs. Mortise & tenon here? Other options?
>
> TIA
>
> Larry
>
Should you tire of advice from knowledgeable, experienced people, you
can read the following for a change-of-pace. :)

I recently bought the Beadlock basic jig:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18088

I haven't used it for a real project yet, but I tried it out on a couple
of scraps of oak 1x3, joining them to make a flat "tee". I wasn't
terribly careful about it. I laid the two pieces on the bench and made a
pencil mark across the approximate center of the joint. I then clamped
the jig and the wood in a bench vise and drilled out the unconventional
mortise in each piece. It was quick, especially the second one.

The pieces went together nice and flush, and even without glue they give
the impression that they ain't-a-comin' apart. All kidding aside, I
mention this because I don't know of an easier way for a novice like me
to make a strong tenon-style joint, especially without expensive gear.

On 10/17/2012 12:33 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 10/17/2012 10:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Should you tire of advice from knowledgeable, experienced people, you
>>> can read the following for a change-of-pace. :)
>>>
>>> I recently bought the Beadlock basic jig:
>>>
>>> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18088
>>
>> Another "loose tenon" form of M&T joinery, as previously suggested ...
>> and an excellent one for those without dedicated tools, on a limited
>> budget, and with the time to drill multiple holes for a project.
>
> In other words - a good solution but not one worthy of Karl's advocacy.
> Note the use of terms like "limited budget" and "time to drill multiple
> holes" - the voice of the expert who likes to talk down to those around him.
> Thinly veiled supremacy.
>
I don't know you folks that well, but I am indeed on a limited budget
for dedicated tools (especially "green" ones), and am glad to hear that
the beadlock system is an "excellent" choice for a guy like me. I can't
say for sure if that was "talking down" or not, but I didn't detect it.

I'm sure the Domino is much faster, but the Beadlock was plenty quick
and easy for me, right out of the box.

Gramp's shop wrote:
> I'm building a small coffee table out of reclaimed cherry, which
> includes some nominal 2x6 door jambs rescued from a bank. The top
> will be 1x30x30 solid cherry with the 2x6 as the border. I plan on
> letting the top float in dados 1/4" or so below the surface of the
> border.
>
> Question 1: I want to miter the corners of the 2x6. Will a simple
> miter glued with Titebond II be sufficient?

No

> Or do I need to create some tenons? >

Not tenons necessarily, any of Swingman's suggestions would work.

Since you have the space for them, you could also use angled corner blocks
below the top...groove a bit of the 2x6s, glue a 3/4 thick piece with
tenons on the ends into the grooves angled across two of the 2x6s at each
corner. That assumes you are using the 2x6s flat since you said they wee to
be borders. If they are to be upright - aprons - you can do the same thing
and use the corner blocks to reinforce the legs as well.

> Question 2: I plan on using 2x2 straight legs. Mortise & tenon here?

Yes

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:33:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>In other words - a good solution but not one worthy of Karl's advocacy.
>Note the use of terms like "limited budget" and "time to drill multiple
>holes" - the voice of the expert who likes to talk down to those around him.
>Thinly veiled supremacy.

Garbage! Until you own and use a Festool Domino, you *just can't*
comprehend its ease and use, the accuracy and time saving that it
provides. Criticize Festool owners all you want, but your comment
makes you look like a jealous wannabe. ~ Someone who can't or won't
spend the money and ultimately finds himself left with the base option
of criticism.

Even I find myself questioning a few of the claims about other Festool
products, but the Domino I bought? It was worth every cent.

On 10/17/2012 8:57 AM, Gramp's shop wrote:

> I'm building a small coffee table out of reclaimed cherry, which includes some nominal 2x6 door jambs rescued from a bank. The top will be 1x30x30 solid cherry with the 2x6 as the border. I plan on letting the top float in dados 1/4" or so below the surface of the border.
>
> Question 1: I want to miter the corners of the 2x6. Will a simple miter glued with Titebond II be sufficient? Or do I need to create some tenons? (Note to Leon: If you'd like to come over with your Domino, I've got some Guiness in the fridge).

You will definitely want to reinforce the inherently weak miter joint
used in the above scenario.

Typical solution is either biscuits to reinforce the miter joint; or
splines.

The groove in the opposing miters for splines can be easily cut with a
table saw blade and one judicious move of the fence.

Splines would be the strongest solution, although biscuits would do the
job. Your choice.

> Question 2: I plan on using 2x2 straight legs. Mortise & tenon here? Other options?

Absolutely use some type of M&T joint ... floating or traditional. To do
otherwise would take it out of the realm of a furniture project and put
it firmly into the cheesy TV DIY genre. ;)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:13:32 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>Somewhat guilty as charged. Though, I'm not afraid to open it a slight
>amount for the right tools that I need at the time. I just close it real
>quick before I get carried away...

Well, you certainly don't want to go test out any Festools then. You'd
have a pretty tough time saying "no" to one, especially if it was
right there in your hands.

On 10/17/2012 10:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Should you tire of advice from knowledgeable, experienced people, you
> can read the following for a change-of-pace. :)
>
> I recently bought the Beadlock basic jig:
>
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18088

Another "loose tenon" form of M&T joinery, as previously suggested ...
and an excellent one for those without dedicated tools, on a limited
budget, and with the time to drill multiple holes for a project.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 10/18/2012 9:27 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 10/18/2012 8:28 AM, Dave wrote:
>>
>>> Even I find myself questioning a few of the claims about other
>>> Festool products, but the Domino I bought? It was worth every cent.
>>
>> Since I don't own a Domino gonna have to spring for one myself one of
>> these days, and join the club ... :)
>
> Thank goodness! I feel like I'm in good company. If Karl does not own one,
> then I don't have to feel inadequate. No dig on Karl, but if he can produce
> the work he does, and is as focused on quality as he is, and he doesn't own
> one, then I'm feeling less pressure to go out and spend the money I
> otherwise would have spent on my wife's birthday present...
>

He uses his Multi-router ins place of the domino.



> Of course, he has an unfair advantage - he gets to use Leon's Festools
> Undercover Sales and Marketing Agent demo tools...
>

Actually we have not shared Festool tools "yet". We own have of Festool
Stock