I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
gyp-board on furring strips.
I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
On May 26, 1:59 pm, Dennis McClendon <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com">
wrote:
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
> pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
> to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
> wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
> gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
The type of U-channel you describe essentially provides a cantilever
depending upon the style you choose. I use the double standards
around my place and fasten directly to the studs. If you wanted to
hide them then you could do so any number of ways. Here is an example
of the standards I mean.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=106
They stock a similar product at HD though I don't find it on their
website.
This is a bit hard to explain without a picture but I'll try.
Make a strip the same thickness and material as the shelf and lets say
1 1/2" deep. Counter bore some holes so you can have a 6" bolt stick
out every 12". Attach this strip to the wall with typical anchors so
you end up with a 1 1/2" deep shelf with bolts sticking straight out
into the room.
Now make your shelf so it has 6" deep holes bored in the correct
locations and an opening on the underside, big enough to attach a nut
and tighten it up.
Because you want the shelf to die into the wall at the ends either
build the strip and shelf and then shape them together or just shape
the shelf first and then rip the strip off the back side of the shelf
and mill the counterbores, etc. You'll lose the thickness of the blade
but the curve should still be smooth enough at the joint.
On May 26, 11:59 am, Dennis McClendon <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com">
wrote:
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
> pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
> to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
> wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
> gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
OK, plan B.
Anchor a steel angle into the side of the concrete column have it toed
up, notch the shelf so the angle is hidden inside the edge and bottom
of the shelf.
On May 27, 9:21 am, Dennis McClendon <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com">
wrote:
> Thanks for the several useful responses. I'm concerned that with such a
> deep shelf increasing the leverage from the weight of the books, my
> biggest problem is going to be mounting into the wall. I think I
> probably have four studs along the run, but it seems like there will be
> a LOT of force trying to bend or pull those fasteners out of the studs.
> Unlike the situation with a kitchen wall cabinet or angled shelf
> bracket, none of the load is being transferred the other way, into the
> wall or wallboard.
>
> I have a couple of the Lack floating shelves. They're ingenious in
> design, but IKEA warns purchasers about a maximum load on them.
>
> The protruding column is a concrete pier (this is in a highrise condo)
> and I'm thinking that may provide some help to me. If I can anchor
> solidly into that at the cutout points--seven inches in front of the
> main wall--it seems like the weight of books on the back part of the
> shelf will partially balance the weight on the front part of the shelf,
> making these anchors pivot points that are largely supporting the
> shelves vertically, and relieving stress on the wall mountings.
>
> The torsion box seems a much more complicated project than sandwiching
> U-channels in between plywood. Would that provide benefits for my
> support problem, or is it more to avoid longitudinal sagging?
Thanks for the several useful responses. I'm concerned that with such a
deep shelf increasing the leverage from the weight of the books, my
biggest problem is going to be mounting into the wall. I think I
probably have four studs along the run, but it seems like there will be
a LOT of force trying to bend or pull those fasteners out of the studs.
Unlike the situation with a kitchen wall cabinet or angled shelf
bracket, none of the load is being transferred the other way, into the
wall or wallboard.
I have a couple of the Lack floating shelves. They're ingenious in
design, but IKEA warns purchasers about a maximum load on them.
The protruding column is a concrete pier (this is in a highrise condo)
and I'm thinking that may provide some help to me. If I can anchor
solidly into that at the cutout points--seven inches in front of the
main wall--it seems like the weight of books on the back part of the
shelf will partially balance the weight on the front part of the shelf,
making these anchors pivot points that are largely supporting the
shelves vertically, and relieving stress on the wall mountings.
The torsion box seems a much more complicated project than sandwiching
U-channels in between plywood. Would that provide benefits for my
support problem, or is it more to avoid longitudinal sagging?
This would make them float...
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=51933&cat=3,43648,43649
"Dennis McClendon" <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com"> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any pointers
> to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut to
> fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the wall.
> Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably gyp-board
> on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
I thought the proper term was a stress skin panel. I did not get
any Googles on that term for a shelf.
The idea would be to make a lattice work shape of the shelf you
want, a bit like a hollow core door. This lattice would be thin
slats that would easily lend themselves to your curved shape, the
slats can be half lapped. Leave a void on the side that will
attach to the wall. Glue a skin, such as 1/4" ply to both faces
of the lattice. Attach a block that is a tight fit in the void
pocket(s) that you created to the wall surface. Slide the
finished shelf onto the ledger blocks and pin/screw/through bolt
if you want it removable; glue and clamp for permanent
installation.
I hope I described it well enough to get you started or that
someone else will come up with the proper term to find an internet
reference with pictures. You can carry tremendous amounts of
weight on these things.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
"Dennis McClendon" <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com"> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will
> appear to float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living
> room. Any pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to
> make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth
> at both ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center,
> they will be cut to fit around a 17-inch wide column that
> protrudes 7 inches from the wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel
> studs, and the column is probably gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood
> together with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted
> on a wall to support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the
> sandwich to resist longitudinal sagging. But the support from
> the wall has me stymied.
Dennis McClendon wrote:
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
> pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
> to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
> wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
> gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
do a search on "torsion boxes". FWW had an article some years back.
Good luck,
Harvey
Dennis McClendon <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com"> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
> pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
> to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
> wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
> gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.
Ikea sells a "beech" shelf called Lack, which is supported by concealed
fasteners. Shelf is ~ 2" thick, a small torsion box-like structure.
Other possibility is a torsion box fastened to the wall via a French cleat-
type fastener. Split the cleat to allow for your column.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Michael Latcha" <[email protected]> wrote in news:4659c76a$0$9883
[email protected]:
> This would make them float...
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=51933&cat=3,43648,43649
>
I think this is the basic idea of the Lack shelves of Ikea.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Dennis McClendon <"dmcclendon AT rcn DOT com"> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Thanks for the several useful responses. I'm concerned that with such
> a deep shelf increasing the leverage from the weight of the books, my
> biggest problem is going to be mounting into the wall. I think I
> probably have four studs along the run, but it seems like there will
> be a LOT of force trying to bend or pull those fasteners out of the
> studs.
> Unlike the situation with a kitchen wall cabinet or angled shelf
> bracket, none of the load is being transferred the other way, into the
> wall or wallboard.
>
> I have a couple of the Lack floating shelves. They're ingenious in
> design, but IKEA warns purchasers about a maximum load on them.
Our Lack is used more decoratively and for little pictures, rather than
for bookshelves.
> The protruding column is a concrete pier (this is in a highrise condo)
> and I'm thinking that may provide some help to me. If I can anchor
> solidly into that at the cutout points--seven inches in front of the
> main wall--it seems like the weight of books on the back part of the
> shelf will partially balance the weight on the front part of the
> shelf, making these anchors pivot points that are largely supporting
> the shelves vertically, and relieving stress on the wall mountings.
I'd contact the condo board people because if this pier is part of what
holds up the high rise, you might not want to drill holes in it ...
> The torsion box seems a much more complicated project than sandwiching
> U-channels in between plywood. Would that provide benefits for my
> support problem, or is it more to avoid longitudinal sagging?
U-channels in between plywood is like the start of a torsion box. I
think you'd want to have the back "wall" of such a torsion box - be it
metal U-channel or solid wood - sturdily fastened to the wall studs.
Then, where it leans against the pier, it should do so tightly, so top
and bottom portions of the wood or U-channel lean/hang against the pier
so as to provide support.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On Sat, 26 May 2007 14:45:42 -0500, "DanG" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I thought the proper term was a stress skin panel. I did not get
>any Googles on that term for a shelf.
>
>The idea would be to make a lattice work shape of the shelf you
>want, a bit like a hollow core door. This lattice would be thin
>slats that would easily lend themselves to your curved shape, the
>slats can be half lapped. Leave a void on the side that will
>attach to the wall. Glue a skin, such as 1/4" ply to both faces
>of the lattice. Attach a block that is a tight fit in the void
>pocket(s) that you created to the wall surface. Slide the
>finished shelf onto the ledger blocks and pin/screw/through bolt
>if you want it removable; glue and clamp for permanent
>installation.
>
>I hope I described it well enough to get you started or that
>someone else will come up with the proper term to find an internet
>reference with pictures. You can carry tremendous amounts of
>weight on these things.
Agreed, they work well. I leant on mine after installing it, it showed
no signs of moving.
This system has been described in at least 2 magazines over the past
few years. FWW was one, and I can't recall the other. Somebody with a
FWW index may be able to narrow it down, then maybe you can find it in
the local library.
Barry
Look in the June 2007 issue of Woodworker's Journal. Ian Kirby has an article
on "torsion Boxes" and it includes mounting them on a wall if I remember correctly.
Wayne
Dennis McClendon wrote:
> I'm trying to design some curved-front bookshelves that will appear to
> float unsupported from a wall in a contemporary living room. Any
> pointers to places where I can get ideas for how to make this work?
>
> I'm imagining shelves 66 inches long, that curve from no depth at both
> ends to 18 inches deep in the center. In the center, they will be cut
> to fit around a 17-inch wide column that protrudes 7 inches from the
> wall. Wall is gyp-board over steel studs, and the column is probably
> gyp-board on furring strips.
>
> I'm thinking of sandwiching two thicknesses of 3/4-inch plywood together
> with a U-shaped steel channel (the type usually mounted on a wall to
> support bookcases, ironically) in the middle of the sandwich to resist
> longitudinal sagging. But the support from the wall has me stymied.