So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
shouldn't be... China!
Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
Materials?!
I am just disgusted by this...
Adam
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> I
> made a mistake on that this morning: my wife bought a book at a VA
> book sale for a four year old; it was printed in Indonesia, not China.
> But the second one she bought was printed in China.
>
China is now importing toys and stuff from Indonesia.
On Mar 6, 7:26=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Still remember a comment attributed to Jack Welch while he was still
> CEO of GE.
>
> "The lowest cost solution is to build your factories on barges, then
> put them as close as possible to the lowest cost labor supply. When a
> lower cost supply develops, move the factory."
>
> Unfortunately, that concept is closer than we think.
Some of those realities have already come and gone. The Japanese, for
instance, were able to come across the Pacific, catch fish off
Canadian shores, clean/process/can them on the way back to Japan,
stick the cans in containers and ship them to Canada for less money
than we could it ourselves. They did that for a long time. That kind
of competition is real and fair.
Robatoy wrote:
> On Mar 7, 9:08 am, "NuWave Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
>>> exceeding their quota though?
>> And harpooning a few whales, no doubt.
>> -
>> Dave in Houston
>
> When all the whales are gone, we won't have to worry about that
> anymore.
(bumper sticker)
Save The Whales. Collect The Entire Set
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Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Douglas Johnson wrote:
>
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Let's hope they are farsighted enough to give credit where credit is
>>> ultimately due ... to the capitalistic societies of the West.
>> When the Brits returned Hong Kong to China in the 90's, China swore they
>> were
>> not going change it, that they wanted a capitalist example. My thought
>> was
>> "Yeah, right.". But they didn't change it. Capitalism spread across the
>> border into Guangdong province and up the coast from there.
>>
>> The young folks (teens and 20's) in China love American pop culture --
>> fast
>> food, Hollywood, TV, and music. Actually, it is kind of embarrassing. I
>> think America exports some of the worst of our culture.
>>
>> The ultimate luxury car is a Buick. Forget that German or Japanese iron.
>>
>> English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down the
>> street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is it?" just
>> to try out their English.
>>
>> How much mileage this will get us in the long term is another question.
>>
>
> Certainly worked very well with the Former Soviet Union (emphasis on
> former). The infiltration of western culture (some of it more appropriately
> hypothetical "culture") helped further the fall of the totalitarian state.
> At their heart, almost all people have the need for freedom; governments
> like the Soviet State and the Chinese Communists can only hold the lid on
> so long before things blow up. China, like the Soviet Union before it, is
> now experimenting with "controlled capitalism" and "limited freedom" in an
> attempt to maintain strong central control by the ruling class. I'm sure
> their ruling class is trying to apply "lesssons learned" from watching the
> fall of the FSU, thinking that by applying a little more force here or
> there they can maintain the high degree of control they now enjoy. A little
> freedom is like being a little pregnant and no freedom, such as they had
> before while seeing what others have is not cannot be maintained
> indefinitely. North Korea is a prime example of the latter case; they are
> either going to kill all of their people or are going to have to undergo a
> revolution.
>
Meanwhile, back in the USA, we have people who think capitalism is dead
or dying, and trying to push us into a socialist state. Go figure.
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On Mar 6, 8:24 am, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> >was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> >shouldn't be... China!
>
> >Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> >shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> >business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> >outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> >so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> >Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> >country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> >Materials?!
>
> >I am just disgusted by this...
>
> >Adam
>
> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
It will last until they reach something close to a level with us, just
as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens in China
(it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid of resources.
"Leon" wrote:
> Those in this country that used to make shims have learned that
letting the
> government pay for every thing and not have to work, pays better
than making
> shims.
More to the point, those who would hire minimum wage labor to make
shims have found out China has a labor cost 1/40 US wages.
We must offer products with high value add labor content if we are to
compete in the global market.
One of the basic problems with "the belt" economy.
Heavy industry, but not very high tech.
I watched my customers shudder their doors right before my eyes
starting in the late 70's and it continues to advance to this day.
It is not the minimum wage people who create the problem, but their
ranks increase because of it.
Lew
"Charlie Self" wrote:
> Yes, 1/40th the labor cost, but how come the transport is cheap
enough
> to cover two trips, and still pay a profit to each participant?
Two (2) things are at work that may not be evident to the casual
observer.
1) Time cost of money.
2) Just in time delivery.
The goods in those containers in some cases are owned by the shipper
until delivered rather than FOB, point of shipment, where ownership
transfers as soon as it clears the shipping dock, thus cost of
ownership (time cost of money) is born by the shipper rather than the
buyer.
All those containers of goods moving around the country eliminate the
need for warehouses and the associated costs.
The cost benefits are not just simply low cost labor.
Lew
"Frank Boettcher" wrote:
> Respectfully beg to differ with you Lew, All those containers moving
> around the country cause you to need more warehouse space. You
don't
> distribute from a container, you distribute from a distribution
> center.
Agreed; however, rather than a warehouse, it has become a distribution
center which translates in to fewer warehouses required.
> Model changes consistent with demand can not be anticipated
> so the inventory held for all models is much greater. Additionally,
> the shipments are always late so safety stock is added to make sure
> there are no stock outs, particularly as you approach any peak
selling
> seasons.
>
> And once those containors get on your property, you better have the
> space to unload them, or you end up paying a per diem on the
> containers.
Sounds like standard dumurage charges. Same for rail cars, trailers,
etc. AKA: No free lunch.
> And when you anticipate wrong four months out and are facing a
> stockout, then you air freight the stuff and take a real bath.
Yep.
> There are no savings on the cost of carrying inventory or the cost
of
> quality from the far east at least with regard to woodworking
> machinery. It is substantially more, factor of four for cost of
> carrying inventory and a factor of 2.5 for cost of quality.
>
> It is, in fact fully burdened labor that is cheap.
No question, fully burdened lsbor is the big prize.
My info was acquired as a result of sharing a plane ride with a
computer jock whose primary customer was WalMart a few years ago.
He also indicated they manage their inventory based on the daily store
sales registered at the check out.
As I remember, ".. almost real time" were the words he used to
describe it.
So much of their inventory appears to be short term items that they
just flush out one model and bring on the next one.
SAme applies to Home Depot and probably Lowes.
Also helps to control liability, returns, warranties, etc.
I'm certain what you described applies to the durable goods industry;
however, most of what I described would not be considered as durable
goods.
Either way, we are never going to be able to again compete in the low
tech value add industries again.
Even things like airplanes are coming under fire.
Still remember a comment attributed to Jack Welch while he was still
CEO of GE.
"The lowest cost solution is to build your factories on barges, then
put them as close as possible to the lowest cost labor supply. When a
lower cost supply develops, move the factory."
Unfortunately, that concept is closer than we think.
Lew
Robatoy wrote:
> Some of those realities have already come and gone. The Japanese, for
> instance, were able to come across the Pacific, catch fish off
> Canadian shores, clean/process/can them on the way back to Japan,
> stick the cans in containers and ship them to Canada for less money
> than we could it ourselves. They did that for a long time. That kind
> of competition is real and fair.
Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
exceeding their quota though?
Chris
Douglas Johnson wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Let's hope they are farsighted enough to give credit where credit is
>>ultimately due ... to the capitalistic societies of the West.
>
> When the Brits returned Hong Kong to China in the 90's, China swore they
> were
> not going change it, that they wanted a capitalist example. My thought
> was
> "Yeah, right.". But they didn't change it. Capitalism spread across the
> border into Guangdong province and up the coast from there.
>
> The young folks (teens and 20's) in China love American pop culture --
> fast
> food, Hollywood, TV, and music. Actually, it is kind of embarrassing. I
> think America exports some of the worst of our culture.
>
> The ultimate luxury car is a Buick. Forget that German or Japanese iron.
>
> English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down the
> street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is it?" just
> to try out their English.
>
> How much mileage this will get us in the long term is another question.
>
Certainly worked very well with the Former Soviet Union (emphasis on
former). The infiltration of western culture (some of it more appropriately
hypothetical "culture") helped further the fall of the totalitarian state.
At their heart, almost all people have the need for freedom; governments
like the Soviet State and the Chinese Communists can only hold the lid on
so long before things blow up. China, like the Soviet Union before it, is
now experimenting with "controlled capitalism" and "limited freedom" in an
attempt to maintain strong central control by the ruling class. I'm sure
their ruling class is trying to apply "lesssons learned" from watching the
fall of the FSU, thinking that by applying a little more force here or
there they can maintain the high degree of control they now enjoy. A little
freedom is like being a little pregnant and no freedom, such as they had
before while seeing what others have is not cannot be maintained
indefinitely. North Korea is a prime example of the latter case; they are
either going to kill all of their people or are going to have to undergo a
revolution.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
NuWave Dave wrote:
> "Robert Allison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:uTKAj.4555$hr3.2676@trnddc04...
>
>> Having been raised in Brownsville, TX, I am quite used to people
>> speaking more than one language. I took 3 years of spanish in high
>> school which basically gave me the basic structure of the language but
>> I could not converse unless someone wanted to know where the library
>> was.
>
> Donde queda la biblioteca ? I even remember the book.
> -
> Dave in Houston
>
>
I went out of my way to learn how to say "I have a blue pencil" in
several languages. I am now working on "a polyglot is a multi-sided
glot". Tough.
mahalo,
jo4hn
On Mar 6, 1:56 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
> > Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made
> >>> shims?
> >>> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that
> >>> last?
>
> >> It will last until they reach something close to a level with us,
> >> just as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens
> >> in China (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid
> >> of
> >> resources.
>
> > The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is
> > not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards, their GDP
> is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of the US), to
> spread among more than ten times the population, so Politburo or no
> Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
>
Check it 10 years ago. Check it 10 years from now.
On Mar 6, 9:34 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 8:24 am, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> > >was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> > >shouldn't be... China!
>
> > >Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> > >shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> > >business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> > >outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> > >so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> > >Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> > >country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> > >Materials?!
>
> > >I am just disgusted by this...
>
> > >Adam
>
> > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
> I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
> I'll look.
>
> But they snap off clean and are handy as they come in small bundles..
> perfect for the tool box.
>
> I don't really care if it costs 50 cents or 2 dollars during a $
> 5000.00 install.
Cedar shingles are cheaper and better, and snap off easy
after a whack with a beater chisel. You get occasional
splinters, but no big deal to snip them off.
On Mar 7, 12:47=A0am, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Some of those realities have already come and gone. The Japanese, for
> > instance, were able to come across the Pacific, catch fish off
> > Canadian shores, clean/process/can them on the way back to Japan,
> > stick the cans in containers and ship them to Canada for less money
> > than we could it ourselves. They did that for a long time. That kind
> > of competition is real and fair.
>
> Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
> exceeding their quota though?
>
> Chris
That was more a Spain/Portugal problem on the Atlantic Coast.
But yes, the quota thing has been whored by fishermen from all over...
including Canadians.
"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Bob Martin" wrote
>>> in 1399194 20080306 045035 Airedale wrote:
>>>
>>> >I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
>>> >friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
>>> >really no choices though any more.
>>>
>>> I'm surprised that you are surprised. The world is now a global market
>>and
>>> everyone buys from the lowest cost producer. The rich western countries
>>have
>>> almost given up on manufacturing and make their money from services.
>>
>>While I agree with you, and understand the ecocomics, I'm just hoping
>>against hope that I'm such a dumb shit that I simply can't grasp how it is
>>NOT the end of our heretofore vital middle class.
>
>
> Grad school Economics professor said two things 35 or so years ago
> that I remember. The first is that Soviet communisim will fall
> without a shot being fired because of the inability of capital to flow
> properly in a planned economy. He was right. Certainly there were
> shots fired, but they had nothing to do with the ultimate failure
> which was an economic failure
>
> Secondly, he said that the only way to have consistent and real
> increases in GDP was to base your economy on adding value to things
> that are mined or grown. Once you move away from that, you can hide
> for a while with service, but it is a zero sum game and eventually
> there will be a lowering of standard of living, devaluation of
> currency and many things bad. I'm beginning to think he was right
> again. Looks like stagflation with little that can be done about it
> because we are no longer in the value adding drivers seat.
>
> I can't remember a time in the history of this country when falling US
> demand did not also have a corresponding fall in commodity prices,
> getting things back in balance. But here we are, with all energy and
> basic materials going through the roof with US demand falling daily.
>
> In my little world we have been insulated from the big picture by a
> Toyota Assembly plant being built about twenty miles away with
> supplier plants popping up all over the region. But the big picture
> looks fairly bleak to me.
>
> Frank
This is the same problem that England faced in the late 50s and early 60s.
Manufacturing was collapsing and moving to North America. One example was
their auto industry. They had several auto manufacturers, Rolls Royce, Land
Rover, British Ford, British GM, and Standard Auto who made several brands,
along with the specialty auto companies. Now they are virtually all gone,
closed or sold to someone else. Times were rough in the 70s and 80s, now
they are starting to pick up again now that the economy has adapted. Whether
the US market can adapt is yet to be seen.
in 1399194 20080306 045035 Airedale <[email protected]> wrote:
>I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
>friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
>really no choices though any more.
I'm surprised that you are surprised. The world is now a global market and
everyone buys from the lowest cost producer. The rich western countries have
almost given up on manufacturing and make their money from services.
On Mar 6, 12:28=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
> I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
> I'll look.
>
> Swingman and I recently used these shims. =A0I prefer them as they are
> consistant in size and dont splinter. =A0IIRC they are the same price as t=
he
> splintery shims 99 cents maybe 1.99 per pack.
AND they snap off a lot easier if you put them in with the holes away
from you.
On Mar 6, 9:47 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
>
> > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
> American tree that gets to live a little longer.
They're all our trees.
R
On Mar 6, 1:09 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> >> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> > It will last until they reach something close to a level with us, just
> > as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens in China
> > (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid of resources.
>
> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not. The
> Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
I think the Chinese government is pushing chain smoking. The Russians
used vodka.
On Mar 6, 3:03 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Charlie Self" wrote:
> > Yes, 1/40th the labor cost, but how come the transport is cheap
> enough
> > to cover two trips, and still pay a profit to each participant?
>
> Two (2) things are at work that may not be evident to the casual
> observer.
>
> 1) Time cost of money.
> 2) Just in time delivery.
>
> The goods in those containers in some cases are owned by the shipper
> until delivered rather than FOB, point of shipment, where ownership
> transfers as soon as it clears the shipping dock, thus cost of
> ownership (time cost of money) is born by the shipper rather than the
> buyer.
Yes, but...the costs are still there and must be included in product
pricing.
>
> All those containers of goods moving around the country eliminate the
> need for warehouses and the associated costs.
>
Aye. Just in time. And that's why we're drowning in tractor-trailer
rigs, and far too many of the Interstates are terrifying to drive on
for a four wheeler. There is ALWAYS a cost: we're paying it in road
construction taxes that primarily benefit trucking companies, and
we're paying it in traffic fatalities because of the extra trucks on
the road. Road construction always lags need, so we're always in a
state of spending to help out companies.
On Mar 6, 2:22 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2:14 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Lobby Dosser wrote:
>
> > >> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is
> > >> not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> > > While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards, their GDP
> > > is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of the US), to
> > > spread among more than ten times the population, so Politburo or no
> > > Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
>
> > And the population is now exposed to higher standards of living.
>
> And to the toxins in the waste we send over there to be recycled.
>
They're getting even with lead paint on toys and other contaminants in
drugs and other products. What is it, heparin, with Chinese base
materials, has killed a number of people.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:05:39 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 6, 9:47 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Phisherman wrote:
>>
>> > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
>> > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>>
>> Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
>> American tree that gets to live a little longer.
>
>They're all our trees.
>
>R
And sometimes trees are harvested in NA and sent off to be processed.
On Mar 6, 8:24=A0am, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> >was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> >shouldn't be... China!
>
> >Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> >shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> >business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> >outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> >so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> >Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> >country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> >Materials?!
>
> >I am just disgusted by this...
>
> >Adam
>
> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
I'll look.
But they snap off clean and are handy as they come in small bundles..
perfect for the tool box.
I don't really care if it costs 50 cents or 2 dollars during a $
5000.00 install.
On Mar 5, 10:44=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 8:48 pm, Airedale <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> > was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> > shouldn't be... China!
>
> > Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> > shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> > business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> > outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> > so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> > Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> > country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> > Materials?!
>
> > I am just disgusted by this...
>
> Use a bundle of undercourse cedar shingles instead. =A0They're cheaper
> than buying the little sissy packs of shims and the bundle will come
> from Canada...if that'll make you feel any better.
>
> R
I like that - "little sissy packs of shims". Well thats all I needed
and should need for awhile! :)
I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
really no choices though any more.
I plan on buying a jointer soon and I don't think there is a single
one that I know of that is made in the US that is a 6" inch model.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
I'll look.
Swingman and I recently used these shims. I prefer them as they are
consistant in size and dont splinter. IIRC they are the same price as the
splintery shims 99 cents maybe 1.99 per pack.
Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not. The
>Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
Actually, the Chinese standard of living IS soaring. Just not uniformly. I was
walking a street in Shanghai that looked just like Rodeo Drive in LA. The same
high end brands: Prada, Cartier, Rolex, etc. The same expensive and stylishly
dressed people.
Streets that used to be jammed with bicycles are now jammed with cars. This is
mostly in the regions along the south and east coasts. Somewhere around 200
million people have moved from farms to manufacturing jobs. Four dollars a day
is a big step up for them. (Those aren't the ones buying Prada, it's their
bosses.)
You go into the country and you see peasants living just as they did 3000 years
ago, except they all seem to have cell phones.
One other factoid that gets lost is that even China is losing manufacturing
jobs. Increasing automation and even lower cost labor (e.g. Viet Nam) is doing
to them what they did to us.
-- Doug
On Mar 7, 8:45=A0am, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 1:09 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > >> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> > > It will last until they reach something close to a level with us, just=
> > > as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens in China=
> > > (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid of resources.=
>
> > The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not. T=
he
> > Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> I think the Chinese government is pushing chain smoking. The Russians
> used vodka.
The Americanadians used both...for taxes and to reduce the expense of
old age care.
On Mar 6, 2:14 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Lobby Dosser wrote:
>
> >> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is
> >> not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> > While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards, their GDP
> > is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of the US), to
> > spread among more than ten times the population, so Politburo or no
> > Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
>
> And the population is now exposed to higher standards of living.
And to the toxins in the waste we send over there to be recycled.
R
On Mar 6, 12:47=A0pm, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 9:47 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Phisherman wrote:
> > > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on
> > >> and
> > >> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> > >> shouldn't be... China!
>
> > >> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> > >> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> > >> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> > >> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there
> > >> and
> > >> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> > >> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> > >> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic
> > >> building
> > >> Materials?!
>
> > >> I am just disgusted by this...
>
> > >> Adam
>
> > > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> > Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
> > American tree that gets to live a little longer.
>
> Trees cut here. Shipped to China. China makes plywood and shims and
> 2x4s. Shipped to U.S. We buy. Some profit--on trees--stays here. Most
> profit goes to China along with more of our trees.
Of course the Chinese also ship the US/Canada tree products to
countries all over the world.
On Mar 6, 9:47=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on
> >> and
> >> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> >> shouldn't be... China!
>
> >> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> >> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> >> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> >> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there
> >> and
> >> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> >> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> >> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic
> >> building
> >> Materials?!
>
> >> I am just disgusted by this...
>
> >> Adam
>
> > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
> American tree that gets to live a little longer.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you sure we are not shipping our harvested logs to China.
Joe G
On Mar 7, 7:02=A0pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Mar 7, 12:47=A0am, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy wrote:
> >> > Some of those realities have already come and gone. The Japanese,
> >> > for instance, were able to come across the Pacific, catch fish off
> >> > Canadian shores, clean/process/can them on the way back to Japan,
> >> > stick the cans in containers and ship them to Canada for less money
> >> > than we could it ourselves. They did that for a long time. That
> >> > kind of competition is real and fair.
>
> >> Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
> >> exceeding their quota though?
>
> >> Chris
>
> > That was more a Spain/Portugal problem on the Atlantic Coast.
> > But yes, the quota thing has been whored by fishermen from all over...
> > including Canadians.
>
> And the Herring War between the UK and Iceland. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm herrrring... little green ones... right out of the North
Sea...
On Mar 6, 9:47 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on
> >> and
> >> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> >> shouldn't be... China!
>
> >> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> >> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> >> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> >> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there
> >> and
> >> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> >> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> >> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic
> >> building
> >> Materials?!
>
> >> I am just disgusted by this...
>
> >> Adam
>
> > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
> American tree that gets to live a little longer.
>
Trees cut here. Shipped to China. China makes plywood and shims and
2x4s. Shipped to U.S. We buy. Some profit--on trees--stays here. Most
profit goes to China along with more of our trees.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> LOL. It could be worse ... and was. How soon we forget the early Japanese
> efforts in teaching us how to assemble their products! :)
"First you must have peace of mind."
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 12:47 am, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>> > Some of those realities have already come and gone. The Japanese,
>> > for instance, were able to come across the Pacific, catch fish off
>> > Canadian shores, clean/process/can them on the way back to Japan,
>> > stick the cans in containers and ship them to Canada for less money
>> > than we could it ourselves. They did that for a long time. That
>> > kind of competition is real and fair.
>>
>> Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
>> exceeding their quota though?
>>
>> Chris
>
> That was more a Spain/Portugal problem on the Atlantic Coast.
> But yes, the quota thing has been whored by fishermen from all over...
> including Canadians.
>
And the Herring War between the UK and Iceland.
"Bob Martin" wrote
> in 1399194 20080306 045035 Airedale wrote:
>
> >I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
> >friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
> >really no choices though any more.
>
> I'm surprised that you are surprised. The world is now a global market
and
> everyone buys from the lowest cost producer. The rich western countries
have
> almost given up on manufacturing and make their money from services.
While I agree with you, and understand the ecocomics, I'm just hoping
against hope that I'm such a dumb shit that I simply can't grasp how it is
NOT the end of our heretofore vital middle class.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made
>>>> shims?
>>>> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that
>>>> last?
>>>
>>> It will last until they reach something close to a level with us,
>>> just as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens
>>> in China (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid
>>> of
>>> resources.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is
>> not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards, their GDP
> is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of the US), to
> spread among more than ten times the population, so Politburo or no
> Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
>
And the population is now exposed to higher standards of living.
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
> exceeding their quota though?
And harpooning a few whales, no doubt.
-
Dave in Houston
"Douglas Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down the
> street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is it?" just
> to try
> out their English.
>
English is taught in schools in many countries. I've even heard people in
Quebec speak it :)
I'm waiting for the day the Chinese government refuses to sell to Wal Mart
and then takes over our economy.
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2:22 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mar 6, 2:14 pm, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>
>> > >> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living
>> > >> is not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>>
>> > > While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards,
>> > > their GDP is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of
>> > > the US), to spread among more than ten times the population, so
>> > > Politburo or no Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
>>
>> > And the population is now exposed to higher standards of living.
>>
>> And to the toxins in the waste we send over there to be recycled.
>>
>
> They're getting even with lead paint on toys and other contaminants in
> drugs and other products. What is it, heparin, with Chinese base
> materials, has killed a number of people.
>
>
Dog and cat food here. Plus tooth paste and drug base in Panama. It's not
just us they're getting even with. :o)
"Han" <wrote
> Douglas Johnson wrote i
> > English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down
> > the street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is
> > it?" just to try out their English.
> >
> > How much mileage this will get us in the long term is another
> > question.
> >
>
> Better, more readable manuals!!
LOL. It could be worse ... and was. How soon we forget the early Japanese
efforts in teaching us how to assemble their products! :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:61c26f00-2234-4e3d-aa9a-734b734c480a@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 6, 12:28 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
> I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
> I'll look.
>
> Swingman and I recently used these shims. I prefer them as they are
> consistant in size and dont splinter. IIRC they are the same price as the
> splintery shims 99 cents maybe 1.99 per pack.
AND they snap off a lot easier if you put them in with the holes away
from you.
Ill keep that in mine, thanks.
Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down
> the street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is
> it?" just to try out their English.
>
> How much mileage this will get us in the long term is another
> question.
>
Better, more readable manuals!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I went out of my way to learn how to say "I have a blue pencil" in
> several languages. I am now working on "a polyglot is a multi-sided
> glot". Tough.
>
Een plyglot is een veelzijdige glot.
But you have to be able to pronounce a Dutch (or Hebrew) hard g.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not.
>>The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>
> Actually, the Chinese standard of living IS soaring. Just not
> uniformly.
Yeah, I should have qualified that. Their CEOs also buy private jets.
"Douglas Johnson" wrote
> China's government has some world class problems (broken banking system,
totally
> inadequate infrastructure, pollution, among others), but the people are
hugely
> better off than they were.
Let's hope they are farsighted enough to give credit where credit is
ultimately due ... to the capitalistic societies of the West.
But probably not ... to the ultimate detriment of both.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Mar 6, 8:15 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bob Martin" wrote
>
> > in 1399194 20080306 045035 Airedale wrote:
>
> > >I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
> > >friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
> > >really no choices though any more.
>
> > I'm surprised that you are surprised. The world is now a global market
> and
> > everyone buys from the lowest cost producer. The rich western countries
> have
> > almost given up on manufacturing and make their money from services.
>
> While I agree with you, and understand the ecocomics, I'm just hoping
> against hope that I'm such a dumb shit that I simply can't grasp how it is
> NOT the end of our heretofore vital middle class.
>
My wife has been harping on this particular subject, the loss of the
middle class, for five years; in the past four, I've come to agree
with her. As things presently stand, the U.S. middle class will
disappear, soon rather than late.
We are hiring Colombians to do our logging, then shipping the logs to
China (or somewhere similar), where it becomes plywood and boards,
which are then shipped back to us.
Yes, 1/40th the labor cost, but how come the transport is cheap enough
to cover two trips, and still pay a profit to each participant? Sure,
we're becoming a service economy, or have become a service economy, to
be more accurate, but at some point, an economy needs to move on more
than an insurance policy, a sales commission, a clerk's salary....
Something REAL has to be produced or all these hotshot real estate
sales types will be in hot dodo...oh, wait! Many of them are. As are
many others, all the while we have a President who says we're not in a
recession, our local plants--the ones left--including Volvo over in
Dublin, VA, are pretty much shut down, at least temporarily and the
biggest sources of jobs seem to JiffyLube and McDonald's.
We do have an excellent label design and printing company here in
Bedford, and that's growing...food product labels. But my next book
will be printed in China, and I'd bet that any photo illustrated book
any of you have bought in the past few years has been printed there. I
made a mistake on that this morning: my wife bought a book at a VA
book sale for a four year old; it was printed in Indonesia, not China.
But the second one she bought was printed in China.
Sigh.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Bob Martin" wrote
>> in 1399194 20080306 045035 Airedale wrote:
>>
>> >I just am sadend by it all I guess. Using foreign made (from a not so
>> >friendly country) products to build stuff just bothers me. We have
>> >really no choices though any more.
>>
>> I'm surprised that you are surprised. The world is now a global market
>and
>> everyone buys from the lowest cost producer. The rich western countries
>have
>> almost given up on manufacturing and make their money from services.
>
>While I agree with you, and understand the ecocomics, I'm just hoping
>against hope that I'm such a dumb shit that I simply can't grasp how it is
>NOT the end of our heretofore vital middle class.
Grad school Economics professor said two things 35 or so years ago
that I remember. The first is that Soviet communisim will fall
without a shot being fired because of the inability of capital to flow
properly in a planned economy. He was right. Certainly there were
shots fired, but they had nothing to do with the ultimate failure
which was an economic failure
Secondly, he said that the only way to have consistent and real
increases in GDP was to base your economy on adding value to things
that are mined or grown. Once you move away from that, you can hide
for a while with service, but it is a zero sum game and eventually
there will be a lowering of standard of living, devaluation of
currency and many things bad. I'm beginning to think he was right
again. Looks like stagflation with little that can be done about it
because we are no longer in the value adding drivers seat.
I can't remember a time in the history of this country when falling US
demand did not also have a corresponding fall in commodity prices,
getting things back in balance. But here we are, with all energy and
basic materials going through the roof with US demand falling daily.
In my little world we have been insulated from the big picture by a
Toyota Assembly plant being built about twenty miles away with
supplier plants popping up all over the region. But the big picture
looks fairly bleak to me.
Frank
On Mar 5, 8:48 pm, Airedale <[email protected]> wrote:
> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> shouldn't be... China!
>
> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> Materials?!
>
> I am just disgusted by this...
Use a bundle of undercourse cedar shingles instead. They're cheaper
than buying the little sissy packs of shims and the bundle will come
from Canada...if that'll make you feel any better.
R
On Mar 6, 4:23=A0pm, Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 9:34 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 6, 8:24 am, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
>
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and=
> > > >was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> > > >shouldn't be... China!
>
> > > >Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> > > >shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> > > >business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> > > >outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> > > >so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> > > >Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> > > >country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> > > >Materials?!
>
> > > >I am just disgusted by this...
>
> > > >Adam
>
> > > Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> > > Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> > I want the composite shims made from recycled materials.
> > I buy them by the box at HD and I have no idea where they're made.
> > I'll look.
>
> > But they snap off clean and are handy as they come in small bundles..
> > perfect for the tool box.
>
> > I don't really care if it costs 50 cents or 2 dollars during a $
> > 5000.00 install.
>
> Cedar shingles are cheaper and better, and snap off easy
> after a whack with a beater chisel. =A0You get occasional
> splinters, but no big deal to snip them off.
I disagree. I did it your way for many years. I like the 2008-way
better.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:03:50 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Charlie Self" wrote:
>
>> Yes, 1/40th the labor cost, but how come the transport is cheap
>enough
>> to cover two trips, and still pay a profit to each participant?
>
>Two (2) things are at work that may not be evident to the casual
>observer.
>
>1) Time cost of money.
>2) Just in time delivery.
>
>The goods in those containers in some cases are owned by the shipper
>until delivered rather than FOB, point of shipment, where ownership
>transfers as soon as it clears the shipping dock, thus cost of
>ownership (time cost of money) is born by the shipper rather than the
>buyer.
>
Well, that's not how it works in the woodworking machinery business
>All those containers of goods moving around the country eliminate the
>need for warehouses and the associated costs.
>
Respectfully beg to differ with you Lew, All those containers moving
around the country cause you to need more warehouse space. You don't
distribute from a container, you distribute from a distribution
center.
Tupelo factory shipped industrial woodworking machinery to a warehouse
in Memphis, where it was picked and shipped to distributors. Assembly
lines were on a JIT flow basis so factory lead time on any item was
very short usually less than 30 day and many items less than a couple
of days. Model changes could be handled on the fly on asssembly
lines when demand changed. Feedback on what was sold today could be
factored into what was produced tommorrow, consequently the amount of
inventory held in the distribution center was very small so not much
space needed.
Most good US manufacturers have evolved to this point.
Alternatively, the industrial woodworking machinery from the far east
has about a four month minimum lead time, factory, trans to dock, on
the water, on the train or truck from the west coast, and then into
the DC. Model changes consistent with demand can not be anticipated
so the inventory held for all models is much greater. Additionally,
the shipments are always late so safety stock is added to make sure
there are no stock outs, particularly as you approach any peak selling
seasons.
And once those containors get on your property, you better have the
space to unload them, or you end up paying a per diem on the
containers.
And when you anticipate wrong four months out and are facing a
stockout, then you air freight the stuff and take a real bath.
There are no savings on the cost of carrying inventory or the cost of
quality from the far east at least with regard to woodworking
machinery. It is substantially more, factor of four for cost of
carrying inventory and a factor of 2.5 for cost of quality.
It is, in fact fully burdened labor that is cheap.
Frank
>The cost benefits are not just simply low cost labor.
>
>Lew
>
On Mar 7, 9:08=A0am, "NuWave Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Didn't they also come under fire for fishing in illegal areas and
> > exceeding their quota though?
>
> =A0 =A0 And harpooning a few whales, no doubt.
> -
> Dave in Houston
When all the whales are gone, we won't have to worry about that
anymore.
Phisherman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on
>> and
>> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
>> shouldn't be... China!
>>
>> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
>> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
>> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
>> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there
>> and
>> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>>
>> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
>> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic
>> building
>> Materials?!
>>
>> I am just disgusted by this...
>>
>> Adam
>
> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
Look at it this way--every Chinese tree that gets cut down is one more
American tree that gets to live a little longer.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Lobby Dosser wrote:
> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made
>>> shims?
>>> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that
>>> last?
>>
>> It will last until they reach something close to a level with us,
>> just as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens
>> in China (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid
>> of
>> resources.
>>
>>
>
> The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is
> not. The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
While China's economy may be "soaring" by Chinese standards, their GDP
is still only 3/4 that of Japan (and about 1/5 that of the US), to
spread among more than ten times the population, so Politburo or no
Politburo there's not all that much to go around.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Charlie Self wrote:
...
> Aye. Just in time. And that's why we're drowning in tractor-trailer
> rigs, and far too many of the Interstates are terrifying to drive on
> for a four wheeler. There is ALWAYS a cost: we're paying it in road
> construction taxes that primarily benefit trucking companies, and
> we're paying it in traffic fatalities because of the extra trucks on
> the road. Road construction always lags need, so we're always in a
> state of spending to help out companies.
And the trucking companies benefit the manufacturer and retailer and the
retailer benefits the consumer/end user. All is a whole.
--
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Let's hope they are farsighted enough to give credit where credit is
>ultimately due ... to the capitalistic societies of the West.
When the Brits returned Hong Kong to China in the 90's, China swore they were
not going change it, that they wanted a capitalist example. My thought was
"Yeah, right.". But they didn't change it. Capitalism spread across the border
into Guangdong province and up the coast from there.
The young folks (teens and 20's) in China love American pop culture -- fast
food, Hollywood, TV, and music. Actually, it is kind of embarrassing. I think
America exports some of the worst of our culture.
The ultimate luxury car is a Buick. Forget that German or Japanese iron.
English is a required subject in the schools. It is hard to walk down the
street without a kid running up to say "Hello" or "What time is it?" just to try
out their English.
How much mileage this will get us in the long term is another question.
-- Doug
Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>Douglas Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not.
>>>The Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
>>
>> Actually, the Chinese standard of living IS soaring. Just not
>> uniformly.
>
>Yeah, I should have qualified that. Their CEOs also buy private jets.
Indeed they do. But unless there are a hell of a lot of CEO's, somebody else is
buying all those cars and condos. Even the four-buck-a-day factory worker is
living better than their wildest dreams.
Twenty years ago, essentially everyone in the country was a slave. They lived
where they told, did the work they were told, and were paid essentially nothing.
China's government has some world class problems (broken banking system, totally
inadequate infrastructure, pollution, among others), but the people are hugely
better off than they were.
-- Doug
-- Doug
"Robert Allison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uTKAj.4555$hr3.2676@trnddc04...
> Having been raised in Brownsville, TX, I am quite used to people
> speaking more than one language. I took 3 years of spanish in high
> school which basically gave me the basic structure of the language but
> I could not converse unless someone wanted to know where the library
> was.
Donde queda la biblioteca ? I even remember the book.
-
Dave in Houston
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:48:14 -0800 (PST), Airedale
<[email protected]> wrote:
>So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
>was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
>shouldn't be... China!
>
>Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
>shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
>business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
>outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
>so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
>Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
>country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
>Materials?!
>
>I am just disgusted by this...
>
>Adam
Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
"Airedale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b8807cb6-76c1-4a3b-a6ec-ffa98f82a7c9@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> So I just picked up some wood shims for a project I am working on and
> was greatly suprised to see where they are made. Though I guess I
> shouldn't be... China!
>
> Why the hell does Home Depot need to be using China to supply wood
> shims to it? I have a pretty good understanding of economics and
> business, yet I am still baffled by the fact that we have even
> outsourced WOOD SHIMS to China! I know Steel is cheap over there and
> so it the labor, but wood shims?! Come on!
>
> Even the friggen 2x4's I bought are from China. How the hell as a
> country have we come to relying on China to supply us basic building
> Materials?!
>
> I am just disgusted by this...
>
> Adam
Those in this country that used to make shims have learned that letting the
government pay for every thing and not have to work, pays better than making
shims. Apparently making shims is now beneath the lowest wage worker and he
would rather let the government support him.
Before you know it an illegal that cuts your yard will be on welfare and not
cutting your yard.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>English is taught in schools in many countries. I've even heard people in
>Quebec speak it :)
I have, too. But not until I told them I was from the states. They forgive the
poor, ignorant Yanks for being mono-lingual. -- Doug
"Douglas Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>English is taught in schools in many countries. I've even heard people in
>>Quebec speak it :)
>
> I have, too. But not until I told them I was from the states. They
> forgive the
> poor, ignorant Yanks for being mono-lingual. -- Doug
The US schools do a poor job on language. You may get a year of Spanish
or French but it is a far cry from every day conversational use when all is
done. My own language skills are lacking, but I do learn at least a few
words of a country that I'm visiting, but hear a lot of English spoken,
especially in tourist areas.
We get a lot of truck drivers from Quebec. Most speak little or no English
or just refuse to. OTOH, I've never had a problem when visiting there.
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Do you want a $7 pack of USA shims or a $3 pack of China-made shims?
>> Currently, China's economy is soaring--but how long will that last?
>
> It will last until they reach something close to a level with us, just
> as happened in Japan and Taiwan. But by the time that happens in China
> (it's also happening in India), the world will be devoid of resources.
>
>
The Chinese economy is soaring. The Chinese standard of living is not. The
Politburo is sitting on a time bomb.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Douglas Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>English is taught in schools in many countries. I've even heard people in
>>>Quebec speak it :)
>>
>>I have, too. But not until I told them I was from the states. They
>>forgive the
>>poor, ignorant Yanks for being mono-lingual. -- Doug
>
>
> The US schools do a poor job on language. You may get a year of Spanish
> or French but it is a far cry from every day conversational use when all is
> done. My own language skills are lacking, but I do learn at least a few
> words of a country that I'm visiting, but hear a lot of English spoken,
> especially in tourist areas.
>
> We get a lot of truck drivers from Quebec. Most speak little or no English
> or just refuse to. OTOH, I've never had a problem when visiting there.
Having been raised in Brownsville, TX, I am quite used to people
speaking more than one language. I took 3 years of spanish in
high school which basically gave me the basic structure of the
language but I could not converse unless someone wanted to know
where the library was.
After going to work, I learned in a hurry. I and one other guy
were the only people on the jobsite where english was their first
language. Immersion is the way to go.
I still find it strange that people only speak one language. I
am not absolutely fluent, but I can carry on a lengthy conversation.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX