My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
one.
My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
goods to manageable size.
I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have not
been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
actually exist; and
b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has had
the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases like
"gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I just
don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw
simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
right-handed.
I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
possible.
TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>
>> <...>
>
>Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>
>http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
guard cover the entire blade? I knew about the $100 for the return of the
motor but even though I haven't used the thing in 15 years, it's worth more to
me than the $100. ;-)
On 8/7/2011 7:39 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug
>> Miller)
>> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
>>> operator.
>>
>> Not on a crosscut!
> ...
>
> Horse pucky!
>
> How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
> instead at the operator location? The blade is rotating away and the
> arm, motor and blade guard (as well as the kickback pawls--you _are_
> using and have them set properly aren't you--I knew you were) prevent an
> material from possibly going up and over and thereby towards the operator.
>
> If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
> on it is sufficient.
>
> I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
> thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
> cited.
>
> I can only infer that most of these are very lightweight, small machines
> that aren't rigid enough to prevent such things. Those might, indeed, as
> Robotoy says, be worthy candidates for abolishing and since they have
> little if any more capacity crosscut wise than the sliding miter saw if
> that's all one is doing with one then may as well use them instead since
> they now exist (as another said, that's a fairly recent development).
>
> IMO a RAS should be nothing less than the 12"
> DeWalt/Rockwell=Delta/Original Saw or similar; the little 10" things
> from Sears are just too lightly built. I've the 16" Rockwell-Delta and
> it's used extensively; primarily for roughing out large stock to length
> but it rips much more conveniently than the TS as well for sizable
> pieces; it's not as handy for taking a smidge off the edge.
>
> But, they belong built into a long table so there's support both infeed
> and outfeed and as such w/ a well constructed table they are both
> effective and efficient as well as safe to operate.
>
> In my early days, like Leon, it and a jointer were the only power tools
> I had and it did everything from the rough outs to shaping and even
> thickness planing w/ the rotary head attachment...also have a chain
> mortiser attachment that works the cat's meow for larger end mortises
> and particularly angles. A drill arbor on the rear shaft and it's great
> for center drilling posts, etc, as well.
>
> --
Agree with most of that, however:
My first RAS which lasted for 32 years was a 10" Monkey Ward universal
motor type. It was great, held alignment and did have the "climb" issue
until I figured how to set the rail bearings correctly (along with all
other adjustments)and started using the proper crosscut technique. It
did one rip kickback early on when I tried to cut a narrow piece of 1/4"
ply which came back like an arrow and peeled about half my thumb nail
off - healed up nicely without any after effects. It had a high speed
spindle which was great for overhead routing. I used it for rotary
surface planing, horizontal boring, disc and drum sanding and had a
variable speed router control that helped with some operations. It's
big drawback was the universal motor which probably accounts for the
current state of my hearing. Finally, the smoke all leaked out of it -
probably as a result of my incorrect replacement of brushes.
My current RAS is also a 10", but a Searz model. It is much quieter as
it doesn't have a universal motor. Contrary to Robo's critique of the
"control cut" feature, I have never had any incident as a result of it's
use. It's main problem is the "safety guard" with all the hangy down
things that make blade changing, deep cuts and miter adjustments a real
pain in the tookas. I'm considering removing those as the old RAS
worked fine without them.
The point about constant adjustments isn't a problem if the saw is set
up correctly and proper techniques are used - in other words not having
the motor climb or bind.
I use the table saw for what it does best and the RAS for what it does
best. I don't shake or tremble at the thought of eithers use, just make
sure all setup and technique is done with care.
On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
...
>> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
>
> Not on a crosscut!
...
Horse pucky!
How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
instead at the operator location? The blade is rotating away and the
arm, motor and blade guard (as well as the kickback pawls--you _are_
using and have them set properly aren't you--I knew you were) prevent an
material from possibly going up and over and thereby towards the operator.
If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
on it is sufficient.
I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
cited.
I can only infer that most of these are very lightweight, small machines
that aren't rigid enough to prevent such things. Those might, indeed,
as Robotoy says, be worthy candidates for abolishing and since they have
little if any more capacity crosscut wise than the sliding miter saw if
that's all one is doing with one then may as well use them instead since
they now exist (as another said, that's a fairly recent development).
IMO a RAS should be nothing less than the 12"
DeWalt/Rockwell=Delta/Original Saw or similar; the little 10" things
from Sears are just too lightly built. I've the 16" Rockwell-Delta and
it's used extensively; primarily for roughing out large stock to length
but it rips much more conveniently than the TS as well for sizable
pieces; it's not as handy for taking a smidge off the edge.
But, they belong built into a long table so there's support both infeed
and outfeed and as such w/ a well constructed table they are both
effective and efficient as well as safe to operate.
In my early days, like Leon, it and a jointer were the only power tools
I had and it did everything from the rough outs to shaping and even
thickness planing w/ the rotary head attachment...also have a chain
mortiser attachment that works the cat's meow for larger end mortises
and particularly angles. A drill arbor on the rear shaft and it's great
for center drilling posts, etc, as well.
--
"Doug Winterburn" wrote
The point about constant adjustments isn't a problem if the saw is set
up correctly and proper techniques are used - in other words not having
the motor climb or bind.
I use the table saw for what it does best and the RAS for what it does
best. I don't shake or tremble at the thought of eithers use, just make
sure all setup and technique is done with care.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen to all that. I add that I will not rip on a RAS. Not with a table
saw, even a contractor saw or a panel guide saw sitting around.
-- Jim in NC
In article <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Robatoy" wrote:
>>>
>>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>>>---------------------------------------
>>>You want an argument, change the subject.
>>>
>>>Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>>
>>>It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>>
>>>Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>>
>>Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
>>toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
>
>>truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
>>right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
>>one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>>
>>- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
>>*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.
>
>I *did* have a board (cedar, in fact) bind and "kick back" (actually propelled
>the carriage toward me). It eventually grabbed hold of the saw blade and
>stopped it dead. Then I changed my pants.
Apparently you didn't have it clamped to the table.
>
>>- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
>>unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.
>>
>>- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
>
>Not on a crosscut!
Yes, on a crosscut -- the wood's going to go the same direction the teeth are
moving, and that is indeed away from the operator.
Perhaps you meant to say "not on a rip cut"?
>
>>- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
>>rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Robatoy" wrote:
>>
>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>>---------------------------------------
>>You want an argument, change the subject.
>>
>>Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>
>>It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>
>>Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>
>Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
>toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
>truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
>right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
>one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>
>- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
>*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.
I *did* have a board (cedar, in fact) bind and "kick back" (actually propelled
the carriage toward me). It eventually grabbed hold of the saw blade and
stopped it dead. Then I changed my pants.
>- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
>unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.
>
>- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
Not on a crosscut!
>- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
>rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
In article <[email protected]>, Doug Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
> possible.
I have a Milwaukee, corded, about 7 years old. It's a great saw. Never
had a problem with it bogging or wandering and I am not a gentle man
with my power tools.
For any serious use, I don't see how a cordless can compete. You'd need
at least three, maybe four batteries in constant rotation. Much easier,
and cheaper, to run an extension cord.
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 11:34:34 -0500, "[email protected]"
>I don't know if "challenge" is the right word. It cuts but it will bog down
>if I put any pressure on it. It cuts a lot slower than I expected. I'll
>contact Festool. Thanks for the information.
I was thinking, could the problem be your technique? When you're
ripping a sheet of plywood, how much of your blade is protruding
through the plywood? If your blade is protruding through the plywood
an inch or more then it's too much.
It's generally accepted in Festool circles that 1-2 mm through what
your cutting is the proper depth of cut.
On 8/8/2011 1:43 PM, Max wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>
>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>
>
> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>
> Max
>
>
Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table. Clamping is not really
going to be effective but having some one else or something to support
the board would be needed. You have a 2.5 to 1 leverage ratio working
against you. Not saying that you cannot do it, it is just not as
straight forward as making a cut when the wood is not going to be
working against you.
That is not going to be as big of a problem problem on a 50" capacity TS
with a closer 1/1 leverage ratio. I squared 7, 8' 1x8 today with a
miter gauge and did not give it a second thought.
Now if your RAS has a long table on one or both both sides you have over
come one of the unique problems.
Trolling is in the eye of the reader and each post needs to be evaluated
under it's own merit.
Trolls are mostly created and not born. Many have been created here. When we
piss people off with snark they retort, all differently mind you.
Usually for every bully there is at least one troll.
--------------
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I think what "we" might dislike even more is the tattle tale net nanny.
Your tag line below makes a lot of sense. Don't be afraid of the troll.
> --
> Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
> -- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:34:02 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Did I just say that? ;~0
>> >
>> >Oh yes you did!
>> >
>> >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
>> >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
>> >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
>> >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>>
>> And you're giving him airtime...why?
>>
>It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
I just wish you could realize that it empowers them and bothers the
rest of us. We just want them to go away and they won't as long as
some are giving them airtime. <grumble,grumble> Damned enabler!
--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
On 8/10/2011 8:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:34:02 -0400, Robatoy
> I just wish you could realize that it empowers them and bothers the
> rest of us. We just want them to go away and they won't as long as
> some are giving them airtime.<grumble,grumble> Damned enabler!
I think what "we" might dislike even more is the tattle tale net nanny.
Your tag line below makes a lot of sense. Don't be afraid of the troll.
> --
> Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
> -- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
On 8/8/2011 3:46 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 08/08/2011 03:32 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/8/2011 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>>>> you hit it and learn
>>>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>>>
>>>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>>>> conclusion is either
>>>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>>>> often or it's simply
>>>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>>>
>>>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>>>> also seen several
>>>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>>>> grant aren't much of a
>>>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>>>> kitchen cabinets rather
>>>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>>>> the POS class, though,
>>>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>>>> under-powered for anything other
>>>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>>>
>>>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>>>> weighed 100.
>>>
>>> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
>>> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
>>> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
>>> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
>>> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
>>> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
>>> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
>>> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
>>> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>>>
>>
>> Not all of them are crap, if you have one built like a tank and
>> typically don't use it to
>> its potential on a daily basis it is going to hold up.
>>
>> Concerning the home center and or lumber yard monsters, if they were
>> any less of a machine
>> they would not hold up given the amount of idiot people using it. And
>> FWIW I would never
>> want to use the cut produced by one of those saws, every one I have
>> seen has been used
>> simply to cut lumber to rough length and square is not a goal nor is
>> it achieved.
>
> True; those saws are not typically set up for accuracy and the abuse
> they take is not conducive to accurate cuts, but I don't think such cuts
> are impossible. I'm sure with the proper care and feeding you could get
> near perfect results out of those saws.
>
Absolutely, as with most any piece of equipment.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every
>> one of you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced
>> kids" and all of the other terms that are commonly found here when
>> talking about the BORGS. Most of you are more full of shit than the
>> people you deride. I am one of those BORG people and yeah - I'm
>> spouting off because I've reached my limit. I see more stupid shit
>> posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any given day.
>> There's just way too much self-importance here in this group - and I
>> don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
>> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed
>> deserve recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of
>> themselves. This group has way too many of those.
> --------------------------
> Feel better Mike?<G>
>
> Lew
Yeah...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
Something
went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
one.
My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
goods to manageable size.
I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a standard right blade Milwaukee on the job for just about every
work day since 1982. I have never done anything to it but replace switches
and cords. Not even ever re-greased the gearbox.
You have my recommendation. It is probably the heaviest saw, but the
toughest, and has the best torque for ripping of any I have used.
Oh, this is for a corded model.
-- Jim in NC
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly
> 20
> years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough
> to
> include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold
> homebrew
> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
Since you ruled out Festool:
Milwaukee fan here.
I also prefer the left blade but for no special reason other than a better
view of the cut.
Max
"Doug Miller" wrote:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
-----------------------------------
Got an 18VDC circular saw as part of a kit.
15 years and a couple of batteries later, that saw doesn't owe me
anything.
Primary use was to break down sheet goods and trim 2x4s.
Built a boat with it.
I'll never have another corded saw.
Lew
On 8/5/2011 12:48 PM, Artemus wrote:
> "Leon"<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> I have the PC743 (blade left) which I've used the hell out of and it just
>>> keeps on ticking. I think it's been discontinued though. Seeing the blade
>>> and the cut line is nice but the sawdust that gets thrown in my face will make
>>> me opt for a blade right next time.
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>> So you are right handed. ;~) Your left blade saw was originally
>> intended for lefty's that did not want to have saw dust thrown in their
>> face all the time.
>
> Yes, I'm a righty.
> At the time of purchase the "seeing the cut line" argument seemed rational.
> Now a track saw with a fully enclosed blade seems to be the rational
> choice for sheet goods.
> Art
>
>
>
...it definitely is. That said, I still use my Skilsaw 77 quite a bit
for heavy work in the field...just never needed anything else. The
weight is helpful in many situations, power is spectacular, and I don't
mind getting sawdust blown back in my face...or maybe I just haven't
noticed...or I've put my face in the position necessary to avoid it. ;9
cg
On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
>>> "kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
>>> get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
>>> put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
>> Two very big, heavy boxes.
>
> Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.
>
>>> The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
>>> never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
>>> RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
>>> RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
>>
>> I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
>> would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
>> pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
>> blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.
>
> The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
> seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
> electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
> over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.
>
My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
rate control thumb dial. Works great.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:54:06 -0700, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 8/8/2011 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 10:32:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>>> "Lee Michaels"<leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>>>>
>>>>>> I AM a safety freak.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
>>>> set-up and materials...
>>>>
>>>> For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
>>>> advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
>>>
>>> What's "the danger"?
>>>
>>> On a table saw you move your fingers into the blade.
>>>
>>> On an RAS you move the blade into your fingers.
>>>
>>> Either way you have no fingers.
>>>
>>> How is one "more dangerous" than the other?
>>
>> The RAS wants to move the blade toward your fingers. The TS wants to throw
>> everything away from the blade (assuming, of course, that your fingers are
>> never behind the blade).
>
>Why would you have your fingers in line with the blade - or even near in
>line?
Why do people lose fingers?
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Lew
> Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Robatoy" wrote:
>>
>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>>---------------------------------------
>>You want an argument, change the subject.
>>
>>Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>
>>It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>
>>Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>
> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here
> have
> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws"
> and I
> truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for
> the
> right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the
> best
> one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>
> - The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want.
> There's
> *zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick
> back.
>
> - Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by
> cutting
> unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.
>
> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
> operator.
>
> - The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
> rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
I grew up around radial arm saws. I used them for many years. I did lots
of work with dados and having to cut a lot of stock to length. It worked
great for that. I have used mostly large, commercial 12 inch saws. At one
time, every house construction project had a radial arm saw on site. I knew
this guy who used to fabricate metal trailers which mounted a radial arm saw
on it with a roof. He would just tow it to the site. He built about ten of
them and rented them out.
I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all ten
fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never understood these
irrational fear about these saws. There are an abundance of ways to injure
yourself with power tools. People do it all the time. I just wonder what
the safety practices are of those folks who fear these saws.
I will be the first to admit that there are more tool options available now
that did not exist way back when. So the saw may not be as needed as it
once was. And I know those old dewalts were a really good piece of
equipment. Folks are buying those and restoring them. I don't have one
now, not enough room. But when I get a bigger shop, I will be putting a RAS
in. I am comfortable with it and I would use it regularly.
"m II" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:kbG%[email protected]...
> If you are referring to a RAS capacity, I fail to see much difference. My
> $179 10" cuts a 2x12 (hundreds of them) and has a few more space to go. I
> would have actually check the throat capacity to be sure. I believe I have
> to do a flip over for 3/4" x 16" shelving to get the last 1"
>
>
> ----------------
> "Max" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> 13 1/2 inch crosscut.
> I finally built a crosscut jig to use with a circular saw.
> -------------------
>> Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
>> saw.
>> I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
>> Advantages or disadvantages?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eric
I bought my RAS in 1969. I wasn't aware of any sliding miter saws available
at the time.
Last year I replaced a Bosch 8" sliding miter saw with a Milwaukee 12". I
still use the jig I built for crosscutting anything over a foot wide.
If I happen to have the Festool TS75 out of its systainer I'll use it just
for the dust collection.
(and, of course, it'll be out of its systainer if I'm cutting panel goods)
But I'm still not selling the RAS. ;-)
Max
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>
> Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most every
> one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
> application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
> So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.
>
> FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
> still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had more
> problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did mostly cross
> cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP knot and the
> blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather than cut through
> the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)
>
> Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
> literally never used the RAS again.
>
I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my son
cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off the blade,
misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table saw.
Go figger. <G>
Max
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:04:17 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>
>> >
>> > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>> > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>> > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>> > crosscut sled on the table saw.
>> >
>>
>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>>
>> Max
>
>The usefulness of a RAS does not negate the fact that is proportionally
>easier to make a serious screw up than with any other power tool.
>A Big ol' beefy 12" Delta, from industrial yore, is a mighty fine piece
>of gear which will do things other devices won't. BUT, you best be
>really careful, be very alert, and make sure there's no hidden cuppage
>or twistage (suck on those two words, spelchucker) in your stock... or a
>know even.
>Now add the instability of the sheetmetal, stamped pieces of shit that
>Craftsman put out and you have amplified the danger by a large
>percentage. A sloppy arm with a wonky motor with crap bearings and a
>whirling, toothed wheel of death hanging, spinning in mid air over a
>work surface is just NOT my idea of a device that makes me all
>comfy-womfy in terms of safety.
>
>BTW, all you proponents of the RAS... If you ever need to cut an end off
>a 12' x 1x6.. do what I do. A Swanson aluminum Speedsquare and a
>circular saw. I can get a pretty nice cut anywhere any time without
>first have to clean all the crap off the RAS table and move countless
>objects d'art so I can manoeuvre a hunk of lumber, through a shop just
>to do that simple operation on a very dangerous piece of crap.
Any RAS other than a "professional" model is a waste of time and
energy. A good one is (or can be) worth it's weight in gold.
On 8/8/2011 8:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...
> Any RAS other than a "professional" model is a waste of time and
> energy. A good one is (or can be) worth it's weight in gold.
Troo-dat... :)
--
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I've also made thousands of cuts with one, all with trepidation.
>
> Irrational it is ... nonetheless, I have an uncanny sense of impending
> danger - I learned not to argue with it.
>
> It's why I'm still here. :)
>
I've only made a few dozen cuts with one, but it seems to me that the
one place the RAS would be better than any other tool is crosscut dados.
Crosscutting on the table saw tends to be a bit of an adventure,
especially if table width is limited. (Things may be different if I had
a sled. Just haven't needed one bad enough to make one.)
I haven't touched a RAS since high school.
Puckdropper
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 8/7/2011 8:09 PM, Max wrote:
>> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>>
>>>
>>> Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
>>> every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
>>> application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip
>>> material. So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never
>>> use one.
>>>
>>> FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
>>> still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
>>> more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did
>>> mostly cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP
>>> knot and the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather
>>> than cut through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)
>>>
>>> Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
>>> literally never used the RAS again.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my
>> son cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off
>> the blade, misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
>> Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table
>> saw. Go figger. <G>
>>
>> Max
> I think the biggest problem with a RAS is that they can get knocked out of
> alignment pretty easily and there are numerous adjustments to zero in on.
> The table has to be parallel to the same plane that the carriage rides on,
> the blade has to lock in parallel or 90 degrees to the path of the
> carriage. The arm has to lock in at 90 degrees to the fence to make a 90
> degree cut and the fence is not always straight, once cut it can warp or
> twist. It is imperative that you have flat straight stock when cross
> cutting or you are going to have at least a little problem.
> If you ever do rip with your RAS "remember" that you feed against the
> rotation of the blade. While this sounds like common sense you can rip
> from either side of the table. Typically for narrow stock you are on the
> right side of the table with the motor pointing away from the arm column.
> For wider rip capacity you can rip from the left side of the table but be
> sure to rotate the motor so that it points towards the column arm. Keep
> in mind that in this situation the stock needs to be wide so that you can
> have room to push the stock through with out having the motor interfere.
> Get any of those positions or steps backwards and you end up with a board
> launcher.
>
You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are so
many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of accuracy.
It takes way too long to get it "just right".
Max
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:24:35 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:33:15 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 8/8/2011 8:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>...
>>
>>> Any RAS other than a "professional" model is a waste of time and
>>> energy. A good one is (or can be) worth it's weight in gold.
>>
>>Troo-dat... :)
>
>Like the 12 to 16-inchers at the lumber yard?
>
>I wonder what this local (?) yard uses...
>http://www.jettoolumberyard.com/
They don't have to be 12 or 16 inchers to be good, and by far not all
12 or 16 inchers ARE good. I've seen a lot of big crap over the years
- and I've seen some beautiful, simple, crude, and accurate swinging
cutoff saws at lumber yards that are certainly not "radial arm saws"
that do that job just fine - but I wouldn't want to try to cut cove
moulding with them.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>
Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
Max
On 8/8/2011 3:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/8/11 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>>
>>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>>> ...
>>>
>>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>>> you hit it and learn
>>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>>
>>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>>> conclusion is either
>>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>>> often or it's simply
>>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>>
>>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>>> also seen several
>>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>>> grant aren't much of a
>>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>>> kitchen cabinets rather
>>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>>> the POS class, though,
>>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>>> under-powered for anything other
>>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>>
>>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>>> weighed 100.
>>
>> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
>> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
>> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
>> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
>> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
>> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
>> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
>> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
>> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>>
>
> I was just using mine and even though the settings are still dead on,
> it's just such a PITA to change the angles of the cuts. You have raise
> the height to change the angle (because of how the blade cuts into the
> table in order to make a through cut, then lower it back down.
> Every time you want to change either angle.
>
> That's a big reason most guys use it only for crosscuts.
>
>
You should use a sacrificial table in front of the fence, usually of
1/4" ply. This eliminates cutting into the main table. It also lets
you adjust the saw for miter cuts without raising or lowering the arm by
returning the motor/blade behind the fence, adjusting the miter and them
making the miter cut while only cutting into the sacrificial table. You
do have to raise/lower the arm for bevel cuts though.
I've never had to replace the main table on my RAS as it has never been
touched by a blade. Fences OTOH are a disposable item. I make mine out
of poplar. I use baltic birch for the sacricial table and they usually
last 4-5 years.
I wrote:
>> Even works well with an 18VDC panel saw.
-----------------------------
"Robatoy" wrote:
> I am still quite fond of my Skil worm drive....although getting a
> tad
> heavier than I remember.
--------------------------------------
After somebody decided they needed my Mag housing 77, more than I did,
I ended up with an 18VDC DeWalt panel saw as part of a drill/saw
package.
I won't go back.
Not having to screw around with a cord was reason enough.
After that, it's a matter of weight.
Lew
Mike Marlow wrote:
> I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every
> one of you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced
> kids" and all of the other terms that are commonly found here when
> talking about the BORGS. Most of you are more full of shit than the
> people you deride. I am one of those BORG people and yeah - I'm
> spouting off because I've reached my limit. I see more stupid shit
> posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any given day.
> There's just way too much self-importance here in this group - and I
> don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed
> deserve recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of
> themselves. This group has way too many of those.
--------------------------
Feel better Mike?<G>
Lew
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 8/9/2011 9:04 AM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> The whole point is, and you your self have made the comment that the
>> DeWalt/B&D style RAS's are less than desirable. Most users use that
>> style saw if using a RAS and the users have a valid point about the
>> problems that are inherent with RAS's.
>>
>> Because you use a "Tank of a RAS does not mean that there are not
>> deficiencies in the design.
>
> But the same thing is true about the sorry POS benchtop or contractor
> wannabe TS's, too...
>
> It's not the RAS per se, just like it's not the TS; it's the
> implementation if anything.
>
> The old DeWalt of Dad's is still here; it would be perfectly adequate as
> a hobbyist tool w/ one thing--a more powerful motor. At one time one
> could, in fact, swap out the components and do so; I tried to talk Dad
> into doing it but he was almost done w/ the house remodel so didn't
> think it was worth fooling with and so it's still as it was. I brought
> my shop from TN when came back, of course, so it's still out there.
> I've not gone to trouble of trying to sort out what have so many
> duplicates of or which of the combined set is the better to cull the
> herd but at some point really should; I've got stuff in every corner of
> every outbuilding on the place... :(
>
> Somehow the RAS has become the same emblem of the down and out to be
> kicked around just like the BORGs; it's a popular position but is mostly
> just reiterating the refrain.
>
> I'll retire from the thread; I think I've made my position clear. The
> RAS is a fine tool for the purposes to which it is best suited and is a
> worthy complement to the TS in almost any shop. I would still recommend
> a _good_ TS as the first acquisition for most folks but I'll never
> accept the blanket condemnation of the RAS as a device. Criticism of a
> specific tool is something different.
>
> --
Well, Pshaw! I'm goin' out tomorrow and get me one of them 16 inchers.
How much do they cost?
Max
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 8/9/2011 5:17 PM, Max wrote:
> ...
>
>> Well, Pshaw! I'm goin' out tomorrow and get me one of them 16 inchers.
>> How much do they cost?
>
> If you have to ask... :)
>
> No idea, as mentioned in another thread, I got lucky on this from an
> acquaintance working at Lane.
>
> It looks like Delta makes nothing but the 10" any more; Original Saw
> Company still makes industrial-strength (and priced) RAS up to at least
> 20". If I had to guess I'd say a 16" would run $5K any way, these days
> new. Seems like last time I happened to notice a new blade was roughly
> $1500...
>
> --
$1500 just for a blade. I could get a Saw Stop for that much and then I
wouldn't have to worry about ripping, crosscutting or anything
's' okay. I just realized I don't have enough room for it anyway. ;-)
Max
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 8/9/2011 9:08 PM, Max wrote:
>
>> 's' okay. I just realized I don't have enough room for it anyway. ;-)
>
> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
LOL
On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 21:54:25 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>>
>> My old Milwaukee and my old Delta are both twice the saw virtually
>> anything avalable today is. About 10 years or so ago I took out the
>> armature on the delta cutting aluminum - I had a choice - something
>> like $120 for a new armature, of $69 for a new cheap saw. I'm sure I
>> made the right choice, because I still have that saw. The cheap $69
>> saw would have been in the dump long ago.
>
>That's interesting - why do you say that? Difference in construction?
>Evidence? Actually, I believe you are proabaly right, but I'm interested
>in hearing what you actually found to be the reason for your statement.
The old Delta is a solid aluminum case, with cast aluminum shoe and
pivots - very accurate and solid. The brush holders are likewize
solidly constructed, and the bearings - ALL of them, are precision
fitted into the aluminum housings. The metal fan on the armature is
pressed onto a spline on the shaft, and the commutator is like a peice
of jewelry, with lots of metal. The armature is well wrapped, and well
"varnished" .
The cheap saws have the bearings pressed into plastic housings - the
brush holders are a joke, plastic fans that melt and come off the
shaft if the armature gets warm, the stamped sheet metal shoe is
fastened to the stamped depth adjustment peice with a couple of sloppy
rivets for the pivot. IMPOSSIBLE for them to maintain any accuracy
over time (assuming there is any to start with) and the crappy stamped
wing nuts that are supposed to hold the shoe adjustment either strip
or jam after a few uses.
The saw has had some HEAVY use, cutting mixed hardwood studs and
planks for my shed, among a lot of other jobs.
The old Milwaukee is heavier, and more powerful, and is an example of
a plastic (double insulated) saw that is also very well built - with a
lot of heavy cast aluminum parts and good over-all construction (and
it's likely over 25 years old too)
"For any serious use, I don't see how a cordless can compete."
Second that! I got one from Sears in the C-3 series 19.2 Volt. Cross
cutting trim - no problem, Riping - No Way. Cutting any distance in
three quarter inch material - No Way. The damned thing lies to wander.
Great little trim saw (emphasis on "little," but not much more than a
toy - albeit too sharp to give to a little kid!
Two more cents
Thanx!
I forgot about the head turning 90 and using the RAS like an upside down
shaper table.
This must be what all the "jumping the board" an "ripping" discussion is all
about.
-------------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
There are at least two things you can do with a RAS that you can't do with a
SCMS:
Most radial arm saws allow the saw carriage to be turned at 90 degrees to
the
rails, and locked in place, so you can make rip cuts.
Radial arm saws also have long enough arbors to accomodate a dado set.
------------------
In article <rED%[email protected]>, "m II" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
>saw.
>I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
>Advantages or disadvantages?
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 08:58:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 8/5/2011 7:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 08:10:42 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Welllll there is the larger and more powerful TS75 and I have that one.
>>
>> I bought it to cut sheets down to size. I'm not a pro and don't do multiple
>> sheets at a time, so didn't think I needed the TS75.
>
>Well I generally don't cut stacked sheets either but we did on that
>occasion. I was strongly considering the TS55 over the TS75 but knew
>that I was going to end up with both the 75 &55 inch tracks sooner than
>later. As you know, the 75 comes with the TS75, the 55 comes with the
>TS55. I determined that that buying the TS75 which came with the 75
>track and buying the 55 track alone, there much less of a total price
>difference then buying the other way around. So for me the ultimate
>price difference, purchased the way I did, closed the price gap
>considerably and I knew the extra power and capacity would one day be an
>advantage. All things being equal I'd probably have gone with the TS55.
I considered that angle. I bought the thing last(?) summer when Festool had
the "big" sale. I didn't know if I would use the 75" rail (but I want the
106"). I now wish I had the 75". The 55" rail is just a little short for a
4' cut. In the end, it was weight that really tipped me over the edge.
>>> The TS 55 is a smaller saw for smaller demands. IIRC Swingman and I
>>> were using either his or my TS75 for cutting 2 stacked 3/4" thick sheets
>>> of plywood at the same time with no indication that the saw was being
>>> stressed or bogged down.
>>> Is your saw actually working correctly? IIRC both saws have the
>>> electronic VS that is suppose to give it more juice when necessary. AND
>>> are you using it with an extension cord that is not up to the task?
>>
>> AFAIC, the electronics VS is useless. It doesn't have enough power to use it
>> other than flat-out. Don't get me wrong, I love the way it cuts, I just
>> expected a lot more power from an expensive tool.
>
>Even on the TS75 I use it at full speed so I could not attest to the
>effectiveness of the EVS. I do know that the EVS works really well on
>my Rotex125. Regardless of the speed setting coupled with different
>grit papers and or pressure applied the motor does not ever seem to
>deviate in speed.
Thinking about it last night, I think I'll put a current/power meter on it and
see if it's really taking all the power it should be when loaded.
>>> You mention hard wood plywood, are you talking about something like 3/4"
>>> thick Baltic birch? I would think that a common 3/4" plywood should not
>>> be problem with the TS 55. Give the Festool guys a call and tell them
>>> what you are experiencing.
>>
>> Nothing fancy, 3/4" (23/32") Oak/Birch veneer ply; Lowes style. It cuts it,
>> but not like I expect. I don't expect the RPM to vary at all.
>
>I would certainly think that whould not be a challenge. I would
>certainly confirm my suppositions directly with the Festool company
>reps. They are pretty darn eager to help, they have a reputation to
>uphold. :-) You should be very satisfied with your purchase.
I don't know if "challenge" is the right word. It cuts but it will bog down
if I put any pressure on it. It cuts a lot slower than I expected. I'll
contact Festool. Thanks for the information.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:18:21 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
> My old Milwaukee and my old Delta are both twice the saw virtually
>anything avalable today is. About 10 years or so ago I took out the
>armature on the delta cutting aluminum - I had a choice - something
>like $120 for a new armature, of $69 for a new cheap saw. I'm sure I
>made the right choice, because I still have that saw. The cheap $69
>saw would have been in the dump long ago.
Why were there only the two choices you mentioned?
I would have taken the $120 and bought a new decent saw rather the a
new cheap saw. Metal casings can be a shock hazard.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected] wrote:
>>
> My old Milwaukee and my old Delta are both twice the saw virtually
> anything avalable today is. About 10 years or so ago I took out the
> armature on the delta cutting aluminum - I had a choice - something
> like $120 for a new armature, of $69 for a new cheap saw. I'm sure I
> made the right choice, because I still have that saw. The cheap $69
> saw would have been in the dump long ago.
That's interesting - why do you say that? Difference in construction?
Evidence? Actually, I believe you are proabaly right, but I'm interested
in hearing what you actually found to be the reason for your statement.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:57:57 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
>> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
>> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
>> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
>> one.
>>
>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
>> goods to manageable size.
>
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
>> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
>> possible.
>>
>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
>> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
>I own four.
>
>~ A cordless DeWalt, which has it narrow uses, but narrow is the
>operative word and not a "go to" tool.
Agreed. I have the DeWalt, which is a useful tool but it's not an only
circular saw by any means. I also have an older Makita cordless that's good
for cedar clapboards, but that's about it.
>~ A Makita 5007NB which is one of the best circular saws I've ever
>owned, and the one I'd carry with me to most jobs if I could only take
>one, and for your above purposes. Light, easy to wield, and has enough
>power for all the above.
I like my Bosch CS10, too. Nice saw.
>~ An older Skil77 worm drive, which, although I love it, is just too
>much saw too be carrying around unless you're a framer on the joist crew. :)
I'd rather carry a SCMS around. ;-)
>~ and of course, the Festool TS75, which is a damn fine cabinet circular
>saw, but not practical in price or function for most of your needs above.
I have a TS55. While I like it for paneling and plywood, it certainly doesn't
have much power. It'll bog down on 3/4" hardwood ply, even. I tried to cut a
2x with it (it was out and my other saws weren't). One cut was fine but I
wouldn't want to have to do too many. Is it normal for a Festool to be so
under-powered?
>FWIW, I'd still buy the Makita again if I lost it.
Same with my Bosch.
>You're sure to get lots of advice on this one ...
One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my previous
saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
On 8/9/2011 7:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
>>>> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
>>>> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
>>>> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
>>>> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
>>>
>>> I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
>>> won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
>>> I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
>>
>> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
>> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
>> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
>> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
>> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
>>
>> Did I just say that? ;~0
>
> Oh yes you did!
>
> I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
Like minds... I was backing up dpb on this one, don't care if the
plonked on sees it or not.
On Aug 11, 6:35=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/11/2011 10:10 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 9:56 am, dpb<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 8/10/2011 2:15 PM, dpb wrote:
> >> ...
>
> >>> What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer=
;...
>
> >> _Just_KNEW_ shouldn't have mentioned that; that got me to drooling aga=
in...
>
> >> <http://www.mlsmachinery.com/onlinecatalog/imagesFrameset.asp?id=3D263=
54...>
>
> >> I asked for a quote; we'll see what they say... :)
>
> >> --
>
> > When you see 3 belts driving a cutterhead, something serious is about
> > to happen.<G>
> > The SIZE of that beast!
> > So... they're going to ship it UPS?
>
> Yeah, they'll just load the UPS truck on the semi, no problem... :)
>
> =A0From FL out here will have to enter in to the picture for sure. =A0I
> bought a JLG 40H 40-ft boom manlift the year came back to the farm owing
> to needing the reroof job on it and the house plus several other high
> jobs could see including trees. =A0Broker was in FL while machine outside
> Chicago--he had arrangement w/ private trucking and guaranteed it for
> $600--ended up costing $800 but he kept his bargain. =A0It weighed about
> 12k lb and took up most of the load; if they can find shared load one of
> these is probably about 2000lb and doesn't take up much space so
> shouldn't be _too_ bad but it's been a while since I've shipped
> something sizable; fuel surcharges have to be a factor.
>
> I've not heard on this one; they sent a $3500 quote for a 12" Crescent
> w/ a "make an offer" disclaimer. =A0I'm sure I'll manage to fight off the
> urge, but it's a temptation, sure... :)
>
> BTW, they've a nice-looking 16" General up north closer to you; somebody
> has even retrofitted it for single-phase...
>
> <http://www.mlsmachineryusa.com/onlineCatalog/details.asp?cat=3D1270&auc.=
..>
>
> That'll prep some stock for the carver... :)
>
> --
Awww maaaan..... they have CNC's too......
After several cheaper B&D circ saws I purchased a Porter Cable unit about
ten years ago. It has seen a lot of hard use in that time and still going
strong.
It has about a 10' rubber very flexible cord that hardly ever tangles,
although heavier than I was used to it is very balanced and I can actually
freeform cut straight with it!
It has a blade to guide setback of exactly 1.5"...nice for cutting to fence.
Very little vibration = good bearings
Good chip direction via the 1" chip chute on top
I am very impressed as well as people borrowing it.
I have never used another quality circ saw to compare with this.
--------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
Something
went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
one.
My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
goods to manageable size.
I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have
not
been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
actually exist; and
b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has
had
the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases
like
"gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I
just
don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade
saw
simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
right-handed.
I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both
to
seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
possible.
TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:42:27 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
>> Something went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows
>> half a dozen segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts
>> are no longer available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so
>> it's time to buy a new one.
>>
>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks,
>> cutting sheet goods to manageable size.
>>
>> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one
>> that
>> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted
>> nearly 20 years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is
>> large enough to include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>>
>> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
>> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws
>> have not been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing
>> to be persuaded that cordless circular saws that won't drain a
>> battery in five seconds do actually exist; and
>> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used
>> has had the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws
>> includes phrases like "gives users the clearest line of sight for
>> easy, accurate cutting" but I just don't see how it's really any
>> different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw simply because
>> that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to having
>> the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
>> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
>> right-handed.
>>
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models
>> both to seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China
>> if at all possible.
>>
>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold
>> homebrew or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
>-----------
>
>Judging from the replies, everybody pretty much likes what they have.
>
>Therefore, one conclusion is get the saw that has the most attractive paint
>job - you'll get used to it.
>
My old Milwaukee and my old Delta are both twice the saw virtually
anything avalable today is. About 10 years or so ago I took out the
armature on the delta cutting aluminum - I had a choice - something
like $120 for a new armature, of $69 for a new cheap saw. I'm sure I
made the right choice, because I still have that saw. The cheap $69
saw would have been in the dump long ago.
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
>> "kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
>> get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
>> put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
>>
>
>They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
>Two very big, heavy boxes.
Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.
>> The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
>> never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
>> RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
>> RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
>
>I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
>would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
>pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
>blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.
The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.
On 8/8/2011 8:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...
> I've never had problems with hardwoods, only soft. As I said in another post,
> I was making fence pickets out of rough sawn (white/green?) cedar 1x. It
> still surprises me that it took off like that. I had a couple of kicks
> ripping on the thing, too, but those weren't nearly as exciting.
Indeed, the softer the material, the more likely for the blade to want
to accelerate.
Learning that and the touch to know how much to hold against is an
acquired skill.
It's a case where an under-powered saw is worse than a big 'un,
too...mine will just zip right on thru w/ a rough cut at that speed but
it won't bog down; the smaller ones are the ones that can choke if let
them get ahead of themselves.
I still say it isn't particularly dangerous--a little of a surprise,
sure, and a screwed up workpiece maybe, but unless the saw is a _real_
POS, it'll just wedge and generally stall and pop a breaker.
The access problem is why I don't rip narrow stock on the RAS unless it
is too long for my TS setup I may make a rare exception, but w/ large
enough pieces that have easy enough clearance to push it thru, I much
prefer ripping because I've got the long in/ and outfeed tables
specifically to handle the material w/o ever having to do anything but
slide it along the fence.
You _are_, I presume, feeding against the rotation and not trying to do
an the equivalent of a climb-cutting operation w/ a router???? Trying
that _WILL_ get you, indeed... :(
--
On 8/8/2011 8:46 PM, dpb wrote:
...
[in connection w/ ripping on RAS]
> You _are_, I presume, feeding against the rotation and not trying to do
> an the equivalent of a climb-cutting operation w/ a router???? Trying
> that _WILL_ get you, indeed... :(
One last comment re: your experience w/ overfeeding...
NB that the reason for the tendency of the RAS to do so (and probably
the prime reason for the naysayers is a failure to fully comprehend the
nature of the beast in operation and allow for it) is that in normal
crosscutting of starting w/ the head behind the fence and the material
in front for a cross cut, one _is_, in fact, climb cutting. That means
the blade will want to pull the material in but since the fence
restrains it, the head instead tends to want to accelerate towards you
so one must have some restraining force to prevent it from overfeeding
beyond the capacity of the particular saw.
Again, it's just the nature of the beast but it isn't terribly unsafe;
just disconcerting since the path of the blade and the material are
constrained. Just like one shouldn't feed a rip cut on a TS w/ the hand
in front of the blade or put the fingers on the miter box near the
location of the cut, one shouldn't have one's off hand in the way of
where the RAS blade travels on the carriage.
In fact, since moving the carriage on the RAS requires one hand on it
and therefore off the table, one could make the case that the risk of
losing a digit is reduced by at least half in comparison to the TS since
there are only half the number of candidates even potentially in harm's
way. :)
--
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:47:23 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/8/2011 6:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>> Sure got me to clean out my pants!
>
>Prolly needed it anyway... :)
After, sure. ;-)
>The RAS I have is powerful enough to just keep on trucking--I've never
>been able to feed it anything that even gives it a moment's pause. That
>includes large old oak and SYP timbers from antebellum houses or other
>reclaimed industrial buildings and so on that is some hard stuff...
I've never had problems with hardwoods, only soft. As I said in another post,
I was making fence pickets out of rough sawn (white/green?) cedar 1x. It
still surprises me that it took off like that. I had a couple of kicks
ripping on the thing, too, but those weren't nearly as exciting.
On Aug 11, 9:56=A0am, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/10/2011 2:15 PM, dpb wrote:
> ...
>
> > What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer;.=
..
>
> _Just_KNEW_ shouldn't have mentioned that; that got me to drooling again.=
..
>
> <http://www.mlsmachinery.com/onlinecatalog/imagesFrameset.asp?id=3D26354.=
..>
>
> I asked for a quote; we'll see what they say... :)
>
> --
When you see 3 belts driving a cutterhead, something serious is about
to happen. <G>
The SIZE of that beast!
So... they're going to ship it UPS?
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:38:40 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/5/11 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>>
>>>> <...>
>>>
>>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>>
>>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>>
>> Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
>> guard cover the entire blade?
>>
>
><http://tedwiebe.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc_00021.jpg>
Thanks, but it looks backwards. Doesn't the front-bottom of the guard catch
on the wood/fence when it's pulled across it? It also looks like the hinges
are backwards, or set up to cut on the push.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:55:58 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Robatoy" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>>>>---------------------------------------
>>>>You want an argument, change the subject.
>>>>
>>>>Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>>>
>>>>It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>>>
>>>>Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>>>
>>>Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
>>>toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
>>
>>>truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
>>>right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
>>>one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>>>
>>>- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
>>>*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.
>>
>>I *did* have a board (cedar, in fact) bind and "kick back" (actually propelled
>>the carriage toward me). It eventually grabbed hold of the saw blade and
>>stopped it dead. Then I changed my pants.
>
>Apparently you didn't have it clamped to the table.
GMAFB! The wood didn't move 1/16" THE CARRIAGE JUMPED!
>>>- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
>>>unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.
>>>
>>>- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
>>
>>Not on a crosscut!
>
>Yes, on a crosscut -- the wood's going to go the same direction the teeth are
>moving, and that is indeed away from the operator.
Good grief. The wood is tight against the fence.
>Perhaps you meant to say "not on a rip cut"?
No. I didn't.
>>
>>>- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
>>>rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
Which is why I still have all my fingers.
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:39:52 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>> wrote:
>...
>
>>> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
>>
>> Not on a crosscut!
>...
>
>Horse pucky!
>
>How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
>instead at the operator location?
Simple. When a crosscut kicks the wood is *not* thrown back, away from the
operator, rather the carriage is propelled *towards* the operator.
>The blade is rotating away and the
>arm, motor and blade guard (as well as the kickback pawls--you _are_
>using and have them set properly aren't you--I knew you were) prevent an
>material from possibly going up and over and thereby towards the operator.
Kickback pawls on a crosscut?
>If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
>on it is sufficient.
If you're lucky and nothing else goes wrong.
>I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
>thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
>cited.
That often happens after a kickback.
>I can only infer that most of these are very lightweight, small machines
>that aren't rigid enough to prevent such things. Those might, indeed,
>as Robotoy says, be worthy candidates for abolishing and since they have
>little if any more capacity crosscut wise than the sliding miter saw if
>that's all one is doing with one then may as well use them instead since
>they now exist (as another said, that's a fairly recent development).
>
>IMO a RAS should be nothing less than the 12"
>DeWalt/Rockwell=Delta/Original Saw or similar; the little 10" things
>from Sears are just too lightly built. I've the 16" Rockwell-Delta and
>it's used extensively; primarily for roughing out large stock to length
>but it rips much more conveniently than the TS as well for sizable
>pieces; it's not as handy for taking a smidge off the edge.
But they are. ...and they are what we were discussing.
<...>
In article <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:39:52 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug
> Miller)
>>> wrote:
>>...
>>
>>>> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
> operator.
>>>
>>> Not on a crosscut!
>>...
>>
>>Horse pucky!
>>
>>How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
>>instead at the operator location?
>
>Simple. When a crosscut kicks the wood is *not* thrown back, away from the
>operator, rather the carriage is propelled *towards* the operator.
Yes, that *can* happen, if the operator isn't feeding the carriage properly.
But so what? Even if it does, you can't be hurt unless you've done something
blindingly stupid like operating the saw without the blade guard, or putting
your other hand in line with the cut.
On 8/7/2011 11:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...
>> If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
>> on it is sufficient.
>
> If you're lucky and nothing else goes wrong.
I'm older than I think...it's actually been 40+ years and _never_ had
any of this "anything else" to go wrong yet. I really don't know what
there is _to_ go wrong.
>> I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
>> thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
>> cited.
>
> That often happens after a kickback.
Exceptin' it just isn't an issue...
--
On Aug 4, 10:36=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Somet=
hing
Some years ago (20+), I ran across a Worm Drive Saw at the Sears
Outlet Store for a decent price (Maybe $69.00?). I'd never owned nor
used one before and I've never bothered with my old circular saws
since. It's always my first choice for framing, decking, etc. I put
an 18-tooth blade on it to rip 2x6 girders out of some "cull" lumber
2x12's to build my new deck and, how do they say "like buddah!"
Of course Sears didn't make the saw. Looks just like the Milwaukee of
the era. I suspect there are not too many manufacturers of this beast
as all I've seen look pretty similar.
My two cents
On 8/8/2011 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>
>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>> ...
>>
>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>> you hit it and learn
>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>
>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>> conclusion is either
>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>> often or it's simply
>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>
>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>> also seen several
>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>> grant aren't much of a
>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>> kitchen cabinets rather
>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>> the POS class, though,
>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>> under-powered for anything other
>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>
>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>> weighed 100.
>
> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>
Not all of them are crap, if you have one built like a tank and
typically don't use it to its potential on a daily basis it is going to
hold up.
Concerning the home center and or lumber yard monsters, if they were any
less of a machine they would not hold up given the amount of idiot
people using it. And FWIW I would never want to use the cut produced by
one of those saws, every one I have seen has been used simply to cut
lumber to rough length and square is not a goal nor is it achieved.
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 12:26:09 -0500, Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:27:31 -0500, "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>>
>>>> <...>
>>>
>>>Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>>
>>>http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>>
>>Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
>>guard cover the entire blade? I knew about the $100 for the return of the
>>motor but even though I haven't used the thing in 15 years, it's worth more to
>>me than the $100. ;-)
>>
>
>My RAS must be the same as yours. It also is the one the one they offer $100
>for the motor. Like you, it is worth more than that to me. If I got rid of it,
>I'd have to spend $600+ to buy a SCMS to replace it. I use mine a lot more
>frequently than you do. ;^)
Well, I also have the $600 SCMS (before that, a $100 HF). ;-) I'll plug the
model number into the site -MIKE- linked and see. I'll take the freebie, if
offered. ;-)
>I could live without it, but it sure can be convenient to have along with the TS
>at times. I also have a couple muscle powered miter setups, but don't use those
>too often.
I'll set it up again when I get my shop finished. Though it'll probably be
another year before I get it completely done, I should be able to start moving
a few tools in later this fall. I don't care what Swing and Leon say, it's
too damned hot to work out there this time of year. ;-) It probably averages
a humid 140 during the day. :-(
Climbing on the roof to cut that vent into the attic. That's the biggest
thing I see for those things.
------------
"Hoosierpopi" wrote in message
news:54bda02c-df19-412c-b603-819ac585ca72@t20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
"For any serious use, I don't see how a cordless can compete."
Second that! I got one from Sears in the C-3 series 19.2 Volt. Cross
cutting trim - no problem, Riping - No Way. Cutting any distance in
three quarter inch material - No Way. The damned thing lies to wander.
Great little trim saw (emphasis on "little," but not much more than a
toy - albeit too sharp to give to a little kid!
Two more cents
Doug Miller wrote:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
> Something went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows
> half a dozen segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts
> are no longer available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so
> it's time to buy a new one.
>
> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks,
> cutting sheet goods to manageable size.
>
> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one
> that
> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted
> nearly 20 years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is
> large enough to include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>
> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws
> have not been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing
> to be persuaded that cordless circular saws that won't drain a
> battery in five seconds do actually exist; and
> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used
> has had the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws
> includes phrases like "gives users the clearest line of sight for
> easy, accurate cutting" but I just don't see how it's really any
> different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw simply because
> that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to having
> the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
> right-handed.
>
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models
> both to seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China
> if at all possible.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold
> homebrew or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
-----------
Judging from the replies, everybody pretty much likes what they have.
Therefore, one conclusion is get the saw that has the most attractive paint
job - you'll get used to it.
On 8/8/2011 6:52 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> On 8/7/2011 2:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
>>> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
>>> truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
>>> right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
>>> one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>>
>> Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
>> every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
>> application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
>
> True enough, but it's also true that the primary purpose of a RAS is
> crosscuts, not ripping. I haven't ripped even one board on my RAS since I
> bought my first TS.
I believe that with access to a TS that cross cutting becoming the
primary function of a RAS certainly is a true statement. When I bought
my TS however I stopped ripping AND cross cutting with my RAS. ;~) Two
years later I gained a log of room after never using and selling the RAS
and never looked back although I did add add a 12" CMS about 10 years
later. And true to form when I upgraded my TS to a cabinet saw 12 years
ago the CMS became a dust collector which I only use on the occasional
job site. It still sets at the old house that we sold to our son in
October.
>
>> So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.
>
> I can easily understand preferring to never use one for rip cuts if a TS is
> available. Never using one for crosscuts is a bit harder for me to understand:
> that's what it was designed to do.
The key elements that I added to my cabinet saw immediately were a left
and right Dubby jig, "infinite angle, 90-45 degree, cutting sleds". If
you ever want to be able to accurately cut repeated length miters on
panels or boards on your TS you might want to keep them in mind,
especially if you want to make more room by eliminating a RAS. ;~) It
is a hard decision to make, getting rid of a large piece of equipment,
but if you find yourself only using the RAS for the occasional cross cut....
Not trying in any to away you from using your RAS, just letting you know
that there are alternative ways to repeatedly do very accurate multi
angle and compound angle cross cuts on a TS.
On 8/8/2011 8:14 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>> Steve Turner<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a professional
>>>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
>>>> believe, I'd like to see
>>>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take
>>>> theirs away.
>>>
>>> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
>>> you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I
>>> guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous
>>> 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and
>>> 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
>>
>> Morons? Two letters come to mind...
>
> I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every one of
> you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced kids" and all of
> the other terms that are commonly found here when talking about the BORGS.
> Most of you are more full of shit than the people you deride. I am one of
> those BORG people and yeah - I'm spouting off because I've reached my limit.
> I see more stupid shit posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any
> given day. There's just way too much self-importance here in this group -
> and I don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed deserve
> recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of themselves. This
> group has way too many of those.
>
FWIW, My comment about idiot people at the BORG was mostly pointed at
the customers.
With equipment exposed to the public one of them that is not authorized
or qualified is going to help them selves to it when they get tired of
waiting for some one to show up to make the cut.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>
> [snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>
> >>I AM a safety freak.
> >
> >
>
> There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
> set-up and materials...
>
> For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
> advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
What's "the danger"?
On a table saw you move your fingers into the blade.
On an RAS you move the blade into your fingers.
Either way you have no fingers.
How is one "more dangerous" than the other?
In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 8/8/2011 8:00 AM, dpb wrote:
> > On 8/7/2011 11:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 8/7/11 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
> >>> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
> >>> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
> >>>
> >>> Max
> >>>
> >>
> >> I set mine up years ago, have made more cuts than I can remember and
> >> it's still dead on.
> >
> > Agreed...it's not an issue that Leon makes it to be ime. (After all,
> > we're working wood here, not machining precision metal...)
> >
> > --
> >
>
> Well that is certainly true but once you start to expect more precision
> from your equipment your projects reflect that. Keep in mind that I
> have seriousely been building furniture since the late 70's, have owned
> both the RAS and TS and find that set up and accuracy to be simpler and
> better on a cabinet saw. If your are satisfied with the results you get
> from your RAS that is great. I eventually out grew the limitations of
> my RAS, both in ripping and in cross cutting and added a TS for the
> first time in 1983. I never used my RAS again and sold it a few years
> later.
While I don't have your amount of experience, my own is pretty much the
same.
While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
crosscut sled on the table saw.
On Aug 10, 3:23=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > =A0"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > In article <[email protected]=
>,
> > > [email protected] says...
>
> > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > > =A0Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> Did I just say that? =A0;~0
>
> > > > > >Oh yes you did!
>
> > > > > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as =
there is
> > > > > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he ne=
eds to
> > > > > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > > > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>
> > > > > And you're giving him airtime...why?
>
> > > > It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
>
> > > Not rising to the bait. =A0Try harder.
>
> > But you just did........ and, at the same time verified your label.
>
> So you admit that you're just trolling. Must be sad to be so lonely that
> you have to do that to get anybody to talk to you.
Project much? Personally, I have plenty of people who talk to me on a
regular basis without any of them being a nit-picky OCD-suffering anal
retentive loner. And a nit-picky OCD-suffering anal retentive loner
you are, oh yes you are..... Did you know that anybody with a big
moustache like yours usually has something to hide? Or maybe it
functions as a shock-absorber? Not that there is anything wrong with
that....
On 8/9/2011 10:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Did I just say that? ;~0
>>
>> Oh yes you did!
>>
>> I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
>> no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
>> split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
>> smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>
> And you're giving him airtime...why?
>
> --
> Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
> -- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
Mostly to antagonize you. ;~)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > >
> > >Oh yes you did!
> > >
> > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> >
> > And you're giving him airtime...why?
> >
> It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
Not rising to the bait. Try harder.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > > > >
> > > > >Oh yes you did!
> > > > >
> > > > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > > > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > > > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> > > >
> > > > And you're giving him airtime...why?
> > > >
> > > It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
> >
> > Not rising to the bait. Try harder.
>
> But you just did........ and, at the same time verified your label.
So you admit that you're just trolling. Must be sad to be so lonely that
you have to do that to get anybody to talk to you.
On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Did I just say that? ;~0
>
>Oh yes you did!
>
>I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
>no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
>split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
>smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
And you're giving him airtime...why?
--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
On Aug 10, 3:23=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > =A0"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > In article <[email protected]=
>,
> > > [email protected] says...
>
> > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > > =A0Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> Did I just say that? =A0;~0
>
> > > > > >Oh yes you did!
>
> > > > > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as =
there is
> > > > > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he ne=
eds to
> > > > > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > > > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>
> > > > > And you're giving him airtime...why?
>
> > > > It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
>
> > > Not rising to the bait. =A0Try harder.
>
> > But you just did........ and, at the same time verified your label.
>
> So you admit that you're just trolling. Must be sad to be so lonely that
> you have to do that to get anybody to talk to you.
But YOU are talking to me, and that's all I want... *swoon*... and a
certified pompous poser to boot!
You made my day.
Two main trolls fight it out!
ROFLMFAO!!!
----------------
"Robatoy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > > >
> > > >Oh yes you did!
> > > >
> > > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there
> > > >is
> > > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs
> > > >to
> > > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> > >
> > > And you're giving him airtime...why?
> > >
> > It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
>
> Not rising to the bait. Try harder.
But you just did........ and, at the same time verified your label.
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > > >
> > > >Oh yes you did!
> > > >
> > > >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > > >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > > >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> > >
> > > And you're giving him airtime...why?
> > >
> > It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
>
> Not rising to the bait. Try harder.
But you just did........ and, at the same time verified your label.
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:59:41 -0400, Robatoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> >
> >Oh yes you did!
> >
> >I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> >no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> >split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> >smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>
> And you're giving him airtime...why?
>
It's a weakeness, I have, C-less. I like poking at pompous posers.
In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 8/8/2011 6:52 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >> On 8/7/2011 2:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
> >>> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
> >>> truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
> >>> right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
> >>> one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
> >>
> >> Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
> >> every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
> >> application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
> >
> > True enough, but it's also true that the primary purpose of a RAS is
> > crosscuts, not ripping. I haven't ripped even one board on my RAS since I
> > bought my first TS.
>
> I believe that with access to a TS that cross cutting becoming the
> primary function of a RAS certainly is a true statement. When I bought
> my TS however I stopped ripping AND cross cutting with my RAS. ;~) Two
> years later I gained a log of room after never using and selling the RAS
> and never looked back although I did add add a 12" CMS about 10 years
> later. And true to form when I upgraded my TS to a cabinet saw 12 years
> ago the CMS became a dust collector which I only use on the occasional
> job site. It still sets at the old house that we sold to our son in
> October.
>
> >
> >> So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.
> >
> > I can easily understand preferring to never use one for rip cuts if a TS is
> > available. Never using one for crosscuts is a bit harder for me to understand:
> > that's what it was designed to do.
>
> The key elements that I added to my cabinet saw immediately were a left
> and right Dubby jig, "infinite angle, 90-45 degree, cutting sleds".
Oh, great, another tool to buy. Thanks Leon. Now to scrape up a spare
three hundred bucks . . .
> If
> you ever want to be able to accurately cut repeated length miters on
> panels or boards on your TS you might want to keep them in mind,
> especially if you want to make more room by eliminating a RAS. ;~) It
> is a hard decision to make, getting rid of a large piece of equipment,
> but if you find yourself only using the RAS for the occasional cross cut....
>
> Not trying in any to away you from using your RAS, just letting you know
> that there are alternative ways to repeatedly do very accurate multi
> angle and compound angle cross cuts on a TS.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> ...
>
> > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> > crosscut sled on the table saw.
> ...
>
> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
> >
> > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> > crosscut sled on the table saw.
> >
>
> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/8/2011 4:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> >>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> >>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> >>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
> >
> > Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
> > machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
>
> "A", sure...do 8 or 10 at a time and it's not as much of a slam dunk... :)
Well, actually it is. 10 of them lined up on a 2x4 beats manhandling 10
of them into and out of the shop and onto and off of the saw.
In fact for 10 I'd probably clamp 'em together then use my sheet-goods
jig.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 8/9/2011 6:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> > On 8/8/2011 7:37 PM, dpb wrote:
> >> On 8/8/2011 3:48 PM, Leon wrote:
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
> >>> more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
> >>> approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
> >>> 1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table....
> >>
> >> no, No, NO!!!
> >>
> >> Like a TS, a good RAS setup is in a table providing infeed and outfeed
> >> support.
> >
> >
> > If you will reread what I said, given the way "most" are set up...
>
> Well, _most_ TS are sitting on their own, too, and you wouldn't say that
> makes them unsuited for use...it's a selective criticism against the RAS
> owing to your bias against it, not a real issue.
"Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> > On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> >> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> >> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> >> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> >> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> >
> > I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> > won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> > I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
>
> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
>
> Did I just say that?
If any part of a 2x10 fits onto the infeed or outfeed table on your
table saw it must be an amazingly small saw.
You need an additional support for cross cutting long boards that is
neither infeed nor outfeed but an end support.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> > On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> > > On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > ...
> > >
> > >> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> > >> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> > >> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> > >> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> > >> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> > >
> > > I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> > > won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> > > I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
> >
> > He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> > statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> > as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> > making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> > names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
> >
> > Did I just say that? ;~0
>
> Oh yes you did!
>
> I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
OK, show us a photo of the 2x10 you are squaring touching either the
infeed or outfeed table on your table saw during the cut, schmott guy.
In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...
>
> On 8/9/2011 7:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> >>> On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> >>>> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> >>>> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> >>>> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> >>>> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> >>>
> >>> I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> >>> won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> >>> I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
> >>
> >> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> >> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> >> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> >> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> >> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
> >>
> >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> >
> > Oh yes you did!
> >
> > I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
>
>
> Like minds... I was backing up dpb on this one, don't care if the
> plonked on sees it or not.
Funny thing is, dpb reacted like an adult. Pity you and Robatoy can't.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
> > @swbelldotnet says...
> > >
> > > On 8/9/2011 7:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> > > > In article<[email protected]>,
> > > > Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> > > >>> On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > >>> ...
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> > > >>>> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> > > >>>> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> > > >>>> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> > > >>>> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> > > >>> won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> > > >>> I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
> > > >>
> > > >> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> > > >> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> > > >> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> > > >> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> > > >> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
> > > >>
> > > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > > >
> > > > Oh yes you did!
> > > >
> > > > I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > > > no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > > > split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > > smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Like minds... I was backing up dpb on this one, don't care if the
> > > plonked on sees it or not.
> >
> > Funny thing is, dpb reacted like an adult. Pity you and Robatoy can't.
>
> You can't read my posts.
I can't? What is preventing me?
> Henceforth, I don't know what you're talking
> about.
That has been abundantly clear for some time.
On 8/7/2011 2:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
> ---------------------------------------
> You want an argument, change the subject.
>
> Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>
> It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>
> Even that cut gives me the "willies"
A RAS, and I owned one, is only tool that I always approached with a
great deal of, if not exactly fear, trepidation. Finally got rid of
because I was always looking for another way to do something instead of
using it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 8/5/2011 7:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 08:10:42 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>> Welllll there is the larger and more powerful TS75 and I have that one.
>
> I bought it to cut sheets down to size. I'm not a pro and don't do multiple
> sheets at a time, so didn't think I needed the TS75.
Well I generally don't cut stacked sheets either but we did on that
occasion. I was strongly considering the TS55 over the TS75 but knew
that I was going to end up with both the 75 &55 inch tracks sooner than
later. As you know, the 75 comes with the TS75, the 55 comes with the
TS55. I determined that that buying the TS75 which came with the 75
track and buying the 55 track alone, there much less of a total price
difference then buying the other way around. So for me the ultimate
price difference, purchased the way I did, closed the price gap
considerably and I knew the extra power and capacity would one day be an
advantage. All things being equal I'd probably have gone with the TS55.
>
>> The TS 55 is a smaller saw for smaller demands. IIRC Swingman and I
>> were using either his or my TS75 for cutting 2 stacked 3/4" thick sheets
>> of plywood at the same time with no indication that the saw was being
>> stressed or bogged down.
>> Is your saw actually working correctly? IIRC both saws have the
>> electronic VS that is suppose to give it more juice when necessary. AND
>> are you using it with an extension cord that is not up to the task?
>
> AFAIC, the electronics VS is useless. It doesn't have enough power to use it
> other than flat-out. Don't get me wrong, I love the way it cuts, I just
> expected a lot more power from an expensive tool.
Even on the TS75 I use it at full speed so I could not attest to the
effectiveness of the EVS. I do know that the EVS works really well on
my Rotex125. Regardless of the speed setting coupled with different
grit papers and or pressure applied the motor does not ever seem to
deviate in speed.
>
>> You mention hard wood plywood, are you talking about something like 3/4"
>> thick Baltic birch? I would think that a common 3/4" plywood should not
>> be problem with the TS 55. Give the Festool guys a call and tell them
>> what you are experiencing.
>
> Nothing fancy, 3/4" (23/32") Oak/Birch veneer ply; Lowes style. It cuts it,
> but not like I expect. I don't expect the RPM to vary at all.
I would certainly think that whould not be a challenge. I would
certainly confirm my suppositions directly with the Festool company
reps. They are pretty darn eager to help, they have a reputation to
uphold. :-) You should be very satisfied with your purchase.
On 8/8/2011 8:30 AM, Leon wrote:
> Well that is certainly true but once you start to expect more precision
> from your equipment your projects reflect that. Keep in mind that I
> have seriousely been building furniture since the late 70's, have owned
> both the RAS and TS and find that set up and accuracy to be simpler and
> better on a cabinet saw. If your are satisfied with the results you get
> from your RAS that is great. I eventually out grew the limitations of
> my RAS, both in ripping and in cross cutting and added a TS for the
> first time in 1983. I never used my RAS again and sold it a few years
> later.
When I first owned a RAS there was no such thing as a SCMS. I used the
RAS to build 3 recording studios. The last studio I built in the early
nineties, the RAS, although setup onsite as usual, hardly got used as I
had a miter saw by then, and the RAS had become what I considered a
liability issue ... had a couple of guys helping me that I was sure
would eventually kill themselves with the damn thing.
I certainly haven't missed owning one. That's not to say that if I had
beaucoup room and an unlimited tool budget I wouldn't have another one,
along with a couple of more table saws, for dedicated use. First things,
first.
In my dreams .... :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 8/7/2011 4:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all
> ten fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never
> understood these irrational fear about these saws.
I've also made thousands of cuts with one, all with trepidation.
Irrational it is ... nonetheless, I have an uncanny sense of impending
danger - I learned not to argue with it.
It's why I'm still here. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 8/9/2011 8:11 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/9/2011 6:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/8/2011 7:37 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2011 3:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
>>>> more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
>>>> approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
>>>> 1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table....
>>>
>>> no, No, NO!!!
>>>
>>> Like a TS, a good RAS setup is in a table providing infeed and outfeed
>>> support.
>>
>>
>> If you will reread what I said, given the way "most" are set up...
>
> Well, _most_ TS are sitting on their own, too, and you wouldn't say that
> makes them unsuited for use...it's a selective criticism against the RAS
> owing to your bias against it, not a real issue.
The whole point is, and you your self have made the comment that the
DeWalt/B&D style RAS's are less than desirable. Most users use that
style saw if using a RAS and the users have a valid point about the
problems that are inherent with RAS's.
Because you use a "Tank of a RAS does not mean that there are not
deficiencies in the design.
On 8/8/2011 7:37 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 3:48 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
>> more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
>> approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
>> 1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table....
>
> no, No, NO!!!
>
> Like a TS, a good RAS setup is in a table providing infeed and outfeed
> support.
If you will reread what I said, given the way "most" are set up...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:58:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>It just pains me to the core to see old timbers go under the wrecking
>ball that are perfect inside needing only a little TLC to remove the
>foreign material and resurface or resaw... :(
I saw a couple of old houses being demolished in Buffalo the other
day. I was pleased to see how they were doing it. The organization is
"Buffalo Reuse". See:
http://www.buffaloreuse.org/GreenDemolition/GreenDemolition
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 07:36:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 8/10/2011 8:34 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 01:34:02 -0400, Robatoy
>
>> I just wish you could realize that it empowers them and bothers the
>> rest of us. We just want them to go away and they won't as long as
>> some are giving them airtime.<grumble,grumble> Damned enabler!
>
>I think what "we" might dislike even more is the tattle tale net nanny.
OMG, you're right. I've turned into that Cherman guy who bailed a few
years ago, haven't I? OK, I'll shut up.
>Your tag line below makes a lot of sense. Don't be afraid of the troll.
It's not fear. It's merely the persistant annoyance of a yapping,
ankle-biter, mini-dog. Ya just gotta hate 'em.
--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach
On 8/10/2011 3:31 PM, Nova wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:58:25 -0500, dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> It just pains me to the core to see old timbers go under the wrecking
>> ball that are perfect inside needing only a little TLC to remove the
>> foreign material and resurface or resaw... :(
>
> I saw a couple of old houses being demolished in Buffalo the other
> day. I was pleased to see how they were doing it. The organization is
> "Buffalo Reuse". See:
>
> http://www.buffaloreuse.org/GreenDemolition/GreenDemolition
Kewl...
Was too young back then to have thought of their expedient... :) (or :(
more like it) altho access would have a trick where the particular house
was located w/ large equipment like shown there. But it's the trick for
speeding up the demo but still have mostly salvageable stuff in the end.
Hate to see the old plaster castings/carvings in ceilings, cornices,
etc., get destroyed as well...
--
On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> ...
>
>> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
>> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
>> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
>> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
>> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
>
> I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
Did I just say that? ;~0
On 8/7/2011 8:09 PM, Max wrote:
> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>
>>
>> Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
>> every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
>> application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip
>> material. So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never
>> use one.
>>
>> FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
>> still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
>> more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did
>> mostly cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP
>> knot and the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather
>> than cut through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)
>>
>> Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
>> literally never used the RAS again.
>>
>
>
> I've never had a problem with a RAS (I've never tried ripping) but my
> son cross cut a piece of Oak and it climbed on him, broke a tooth off
> the blade, misaligned the saw and he hasn't used it since.
> Contrariwise, I've had a couple pieces of wood slung at me from a table
> saw. Go figger. <G>
>
> Max
I think the biggest problem with a RAS is that they can get knocked out
of alignment pretty easily and there are numerous adjustments to zero in
on. The table has to be parallel to the same plane that the carriage
rides on, the blade has to lock in parallel or 90 degrees to the path of
the carriage. The arm has to lock in at 90 degrees to the fence to make
a 90 degree cut and the fence is not always straight, once cut it can
warp or twist. It is imperative that you have flat straight stock when
cross cutting or you are going to have at least a little problem.
If you ever do rip with your RAS "remember" that you feed against the
rotation of the blade. While this sounds like common sense you can rip
from either side of the table. Typically for narrow stock you are on
the right side of the table with the motor pointing away from the arm
column. For wider rip capacity you can rip from the left side of the
table but be sure to rotate the motor so that it points towards the
column arm. Keep in mind that in this situation the stock needs to be
wide so that you can have room to push the stock through with out having
the motor interfere. Get any of those positions or steps backwards and
you end up with a board launcher.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 18:18:52 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>> >
>> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>> > > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>> > > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>> > > crosscut sled on the table saw.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>>
>> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
>> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
>
>Brilliant idea!!
I never, ever had any luck making a square cut on a vertical 4x4 until
I learned the speed square method. Slap-in-the-head time.
Such a simple concept, such a rich reward!
--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:33:15 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/8/2011 8:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>> Any RAS other than a "professional" model is a waste of time and
>> energy. A good one is (or can be) worth it's weight in gold.
>
>Troo-dat... :)
Like the 12 to 16-inchers at the lumber yard?
I wonder what this local (?) yard uses...
http://www.jettoolumberyard.com/
--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington
On 8/4/2011 11:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:57:57 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
>>> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
>>> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
>>> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
>>> one.
>>>
>>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
>>> goods to manageable size.
>>
>>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
>>> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
>>> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>>
>> I own four.
>>
>> ~ A cordless DeWalt, which has it narrow uses, but narrow is the
>> operative word and not a "go to" tool.
>
> Agreed. I have the DeWalt, which is a useful tool but it's not an only
> circular saw by any means. I also have an older Makita cordless that's good
> for cedar clapboards, but that's about it.
>
>> ~ A Makita 5007NB which is one of the best circular saws I've ever
>> owned, and the one I'd carry with me to most jobs if I could only take
>> one, and for your above purposes. Light, easy to wield, and has enough
>> power for all the above.
>
> I like my Bosch CS10, too. Nice saw.
>
>> ~ An older Skil77 worm drive, which, although I love it, is just too
>> much saw too be carrying around unless you're a framer on the joist crew. :)
>
> I'd rather carry a SCMS around. ;-)
>
>> ~ and of course, the Festool TS75, which is a damn fine cabinet circular
>> saw, but not practical in price or function for most of your needs above.
>
> I have a TS55. While I like it for paneling and plywood, it certainly doesn't
> have much power. It'll bog down on 3/4" hardwood ply, even. I tried to cut a
> 2x with it (it was out and my other saws weren't). One cut was fine but I
> wouldn't want to have to do too many. Is it normal for a Festool to be so
> under-powered?
Welllll there is the larger and more powerful TS75 and I have that one.
The TS 55 is a smaller saw for smaller demands. IIRC Swingman and I
were using either his or my TS75 for cutting 2 stacked 3/4" thick sheets
of plywood at the same time with no indication that the saw was being
stressed or bogged down.
Is your saw actually working correctly? IIRC both saws have the
electronic VS that is suppose to give it more juice when necessary. AND
are you using it with an extension cord that is not up to the task?
You mention hard wood plywood, are you talking about something like 3/4"
thick Baltic birch? I would think that a common 3/4" plywood should not
be problem with the TS 55. Give the Festool guys a call and tell them
what you are experiencing.
Concerning 2x material I am not even comfortable with cutting with my
TS75 with out using the track. Something about the plunge mechanism
with the saw sitting on a 2x4 does not seem natural to me yet. ;~)
>
>> FWIW, I'd still buy the Makita again if I lost it.
>
> Same with my Bosch.
>
>> You're sure to get lots of advice on this one ...
>
> One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my previous
> saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
On Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:51:46 PM UTC-4, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Robatoy" wrote:
> >
> >> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws"
I've seen radial arm saws that weren't aligned correctly, and that had
missing guards. They ARE dangerous. It's all correctible, and I've
corrected one or two.
Table saws, likewise.
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 14:38:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 8/5/2011 10:17 AM, willshak wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote the following:
>>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
>>> Something went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows
>>> half a dozen segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts
>>> are no longer available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's
>>> time to buy a new one.
>>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting
>>> sheet goods to manageable size.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one
>>> that died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted
>>> nearly 20 years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is
>>> large enough to include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
>>> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws
>>> have not been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing
>>> to be persuaded that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery
>>> in five seconds do actually exist; and
>>> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used
>>> has had the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws
>>> includes phrases like "gives users the clearest line of sight for
>>> easy, accurate cutting" but I just don't see how it's really any
>>> different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw simply because that's
>>> what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to having the
>>> blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain them
>>> to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
>>> right-handed.
>>
>>
>> I have never had a left hand bladed C saw. First, I didn't know they
>> existed before some comments made in this, or some other home or
>> construction group.
>> I do have a very old Skilsaw wormdrive saw that belonged to my FiL, now
>> deceased. The saw has been languishing in a dark corner of my garage for
>> a decade.
>> It has some missing parts related to safety and I never used it or even
>> turned it on, besides, it is a monster and heavy. Looking at it just
>> now, I see it is left bladed.
>> I too am right handed, and I can see some benefit to having a saw with a
>> left handed blade, especially the "gives users the clearest line of
>> sight for easy, accurate cutting" part. Another I would think would be a
>> safety issue.
>> Holding a piece of wood steady, whether fenced or unfenced with the left
>> hand, then cutting on the other side of the right hand bladed saw
>> requires that your head is also on the right side of the saw to aim the
>> cut leaving the left hand in your peripheral vision and could be in the
>> way of the motor side as it saws. I like the idea that the holding,
>> aiming, and cutting, is on the same side of the saw. I guess left handed
>> people already are doing this with the right handed blade saws.
>> Why are most, if not all, radial arm saws left bladed?
>> Just my opinion, YMMV.
>
>It "sounds" logical and like a good idea, it is not. Most all power
>tools come with some kind of warning to not bend over or align you eyes
>directly with the cutting edge of the blade. bit, what ever. The
>"common" circular saw is not a precision tool. Although skilled and
>long time users can do wonders with circular saw it is a developed
>skill. The intent by the manufacturer is for you use the alignment mark
>at the front of the shoe to line up your saw and then start the saw and
>make the cut with your head and eyes on the opposite side of the blade.
> Yes your cut is probably not going to be square or a straight line.
>This is a free hand tool and practice makes perfect.
>
>The RAS is a different set up altogether. While a circular saw's blade
>rotation directs the debris back behind the saw, in your direction, the
>RAS directs the debris away from the operator. Same with miter saws.
>That said when ripping with a RAS the debris comes back at the operator
>however the guard should be rotated down on the back side of the blade
>to divert the debris, and prevent kickback providing you are using the
>splitter and anti kick back pawls.
The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
<...>
On 8/8/2011 8:00 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/7/2011 11:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/7/11 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
>>> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
>>> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
>>>
>>> Max
>>>
>>
>> I set mine up years ago, have made more cuts than I can remember and
>> it's still dead on.
>
> Agreed...it's not an issue that Leon makes it to be ime. (After all,
> we're working wood here, not machining precision metal...)
>
> --
>
Well that is certainly true but once you start to expect more precision
from your equipment your projects reflect that. Keep in mind that I
have seriousely been building furniture since the late 70's, have owned
both the RAS and TS and find that set up and accuracy to be simpler and
better on a cabinet saw. If your are satisfied with the results you get
from your RAS that is great. I eventually out grew the limitations of
my RAS, both in ripping and in cross cutting and added a TS for the
first time in 1983. I never used my RAS again and sold it a few years
later.
On Sun, 7 Aug 2011 01:13:19 -0400, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
>One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my
>previous
>saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>One thing I would add is the shoe mounting is as or more important as the
>shoe, I think.
Agreed, but I consider that part of the shoe.
>It is tough to knock it out of line because the mounting is so heavy. If
>you drop it off of the roof, all you do is straighten the shoe with a hammer
>and keep on rocking.
I don't intend to drop if off a roof, so I'd rather have a stiffer, more
accurate shoe (and mounting). I rarely cut anything other than a 90degree
cut, so that rigidity is what I looked for. There are so many circular saws
to choose from. When buying a new one, think about how you're likely to use
it.
>The Milwaukee has the type of mount where you can tell exactly how much you
>are raising or lowering the blade. It also still cuts on the same place on
>shoe notch whether you have the saw on 0 degrees, 25 or 45 degrees.
The rear-pivot DeWalt DW364 has the depth gauge, too. It's pretty slick.
On Aug 10, 3:15=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/10/2011 9:04 AM, dpb wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/9/2011 9:08 PM, Max wrote:
> >> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> > ...
>
> >>> ... If I had to guess I'd say a 16" would run $5K any way,
> >>> these days new. Seems like last time I happened to notice a new blade
> >>> was roughly $1500...
> > ...
>
> >> $1500 just for a blade. I could get a Saw Stop for that much and then =
I
> >> wouldn't have to worry about ripping, crosscutting or anything
> >> 's' okay. I just realized I don't have enough room for it anyway. ;-)
>
> > ...
>
> > A quick search didn't find a distributor w/ online prices listed for th=
e
> > larger OSC saws but a 2000 review of the 10" in FWW had it listed for
> > $2500 or thereabouts; I've probably underestimated the larger based on
> > that.
>
> ...
>
> Well, not _too_ badly...
>
> <http://www.tools-plus.com/original-saw-3541.html>
>
> (Of course, this is just the "entry-level" model... :) =A0)
>
> If one really were looking for larger RAS, the place is the used market;
> they really don't bring top dollar. =A0Of course, you'll generally need
> 3-phase power or a converter; very few industrial will have single-phase
> motors just as most Unisaurs or PM66 or other gear from such sites will
> be. =A0Still, for equivalent $$ one can get a lot of machine.
>
> What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer; I
> just don't do enough work to justify it any longer. =A0A local shop in
> Lynchburg would give us evening/night access to theirs...what a joy to
> surface an old 3x12 or such salvaged old-growth beam in a single pass on
> the way to turning it into panels or other architectural details...
>
> --
I, for one, just love old timber wood and water-logged salvaged wood.
This link might interest you.
http://www.aquatimber.com/
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If a professional
>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
>> believe, I'd like to see
>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take
>> theirs away.
>
> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
> you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I
> guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous
> 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and
> 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
Morons? Two letters come to mind...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:27:31 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>
>>> <...>
>>
>>Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>
>>http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>
>Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
>guard cover the entire blade? I knew about the $100 for the return of the
>motor but even though I haven't used the thing in 15 years, it's worth more to
>me than the $100. ;-)
>
My RAS must be the same as yours. It also is the one the one they offer $100
for the motor. Like you, it is worth more than that to me. If I got rid of it,
I'd have to spend $600+ to buy a SCMS to replace it. I use mine a lot more
frequently than you do. ;^)
I could live without it, but it sure can be convenient to have along with the TS
at times. I also have a couple muscle powered miter setups, but don't use those
too often.
Regards,
Roy
On 8/7/2011 11:10 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/7/2011 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
> ...
>
>> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
>> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
>> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
> ...
>
> I've never had such issues; then again, I have one of the old large
> (16") Rockwell-Delta's not the little home-store Sears/DeWalt/etc.
>
> --
Typically every new RAS right out of the box has the alignment issue.
You have to assemble at least the table and that has to be done
perfectly. So at least once the RAS has all those extra alignment
settinsg. Then add in humidity, temperature changes and the table/fence
needs to be readjusted. If you really use the RAS a lot the table has
to be replaced and you start the alignment process again.
Now, if you have an industrial sized saw in good condition the
adjustments are probably greatly reduced as would be expected but
because of the inherent characteristics of the RAS the more commonly
found ones are more trouble.
I believe that the biggest issue with all RAS's regardless of size is
the wood table which moves and changes shape.
Consider also that if you most often cut a like sized material on the
16" RAS's as you do with a 10" RAS. If you mostly cut 3/4" material
with a 10" RAS the equivalent on a 16" RAS would probably be 1-1/4"",
assuming the capacity on a 10" saw is 3" and the capacity on a 16" is
5". When always using equivalent thickness materials I am sure the
alignment and operation issues become more equal. The typical 10 RAS
would probably perform much better and more smoothly if it normally cut
material less the 1/2" thick.
Now I am not saying that I would never use a RAS again but I would
absolutely trust the results from my cabinet saw over any RAS whether it
be cross cutting or ripping with few exceptions such as squaring the end
of a long board or cutting dados across long boards.
This is my view after having both machines and build lots of furniture
with both. I still view the TS a more safe to operate machine over the
RAS even though I have never been injured with a RAS but have been with
a TS.
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 08:10:42 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 8/4/2011 11:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:57:57 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
>>>> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
>>>> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
>>>> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
>>>> goods to manageable size.
>>>
>>>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
>>>> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
>>>> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>>>
>>> I own four.
>>>
>>> ~ A cordless DeWalt, which has it narrow uses, but narrow is the
>>> operative word and not a "go to" tool.
>>
>> Agreed. I have the DeWalt, which is a useful tool but it's not an only
>> circular saw by any means. I also have an older Makita cordless that's good
>> for cedar clapboards, but that's about it.
>>
>>> ~ A Makita 5007NB which is one of the best circular saws I've ever
>>> owned, and the one I'd carry with me to most jobs if I could only take
>>> one, and for your above purposes. Light, easy to wield, and has enough
>>> power for all the above.
>>
>> I like my Bosch CS10, too. Nice saw.
>>
>>> ~ An older Skil77 worm drive, which, although I love it, is just too
>>> much saw too be carrying around unless you're a framer on the joist crew. :)
>>
>> I'd rather carry a SCMS around. ;-)
>>
>>> ~ and of course, the Festool TS75, which is a damn fine cabinet circular
>>> saw, but not practical in price or function for most of your needs above.
>>
>> I have a TS55. While I like it for paneling and plywood, it certainly doesn't
>> have much power. It'll bog down on 3/4" hardwood ply, even. I tried to cut a
>> 2x with it (it was out and my other saws weren't). One cut was fine but I
>> wouldn't want to have to do too many. Is it normal for a Festool to be so
>> under-powered?
>
>Welllll there is the larger and more powerful TS75 and I have that one.
I bought it to cut sheets down to size. I'm not a pro and don't do multiple
sheets at a time, so didn't think I needed the TS75.
> The TS 55 is a smaller saw for smaller demands. IIRC Swingman and I
>were using either his or my TS75 for cutting 2 stacked 3/4" thick sheets
>of plywood at the same time with no indication that the saw was being
>stressed or bogged down.
>Is your saw actually working correctly? IIRC both saws have the
>electronic VS that is suppose to give it more juice when necessary. AND
>are you using it with an extension cord that is not up to the task?
AFAIC, the electronics VS is useless. It doesn't have enough power to use it
other than flat-out. Don't get me wrong, I love the way it cuts, I just
expected a lot more power from an expensive tool.
>You mention hard wood plywood, are you talking about something like 3/4"
>thick Baltic birch? I would think that a common 3/4" plywood should not
>be problem with the TS 55. Give the Festool guys a call and tell them
>what you are experiencing.
Nothing fancy, 3/4" (23/32") Oak/Birch veneer ply; Lowes style. It cuts it,
but not like I expect. I don't expect the RPM to vary at all.
>Concerning 2x material I am not even comfortable with cutting with my
>TS75 with out using the track. Something about the plunge mechanism
>with the saw sitting on a 2x4 does not seem natural to me yet. ;~)
>
I understand. ;-) I had a scrap to cut and just didn't want to get out the
other saw. It barely made it through the 2x.
On Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:39:39 PM UTC-4, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> I mainly use my girlfriend's Makita 5277B, it totally rocks.
>
> I would trust Milwaukee or Porter Cable any day.
Alas, the passage of time changes the qualities of
our favorite brands. I've seen two killer faults in circular
saws (corded), which are plastic frames (if the soleplate
isn't metal-to-metal at the pivot, do NOT buy that saw),
and aggressive bladeguards. Both made straight cuts
nearly impossible, and plunge cuts dangerous.
On 8/4/2011 11:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Doug Miller" wrote:
>
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
> -----------------------------------
> Got an 18VDC circular saw as part of a kit.
>
> 15 years and a couple of batteries later, that saw doesn't owe me
> anything.
>
> Primary use was to break down sheet goods and trim 2x4s.
>
> Built a boat with it.
>
> I'll never have another corded saw.
>
> Lew
>
>
How long did it take to build that boat Lew?
On 8/4/2011 10:38 PM, Artemus wrote:
> "Doug Miller"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
>> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
>> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
>> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
>> one.
>>
>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
>> goods to manageable size.
>>
>> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
>> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
>> years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
>> include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>>
>> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
>> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have not
>> been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
>> that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
>> actually exist; and
>> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has had
>> the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases like
>> "gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I just
>> don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw
>> simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
>> having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
>> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
>> right-handed.
>>
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
>> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
>> possible.
>>
>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
>> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
> I have the PC743 (blade left) which I've used the hell out of and it just
> keeps on ticking. I think it's been discontinued though. Seeing the blade
> and the cut line is nice but the sawdust that gets thrown in my face will make
> me opt for a blade right next time.
> Art
>
>
So you are right handed. ;~) Your left blade saw was originally
intended for lefty's that did not want to have saw dust thrown in their
face all the time.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> If a professional
>>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
>>> believe, I'd like to see
>>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take
>>> theirs away.
>>
>> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
>> you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I
>> guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous
>> 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and
>> 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
>
> Morons? Two letters come to mind...
I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every one of
you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced kids" and all of
the other terms that are commonly found here when talking about the BORGS.
Most of you are more full of shit than the people you deride. I am one of
those BORG people and yeah - I'm spouting off because I've reached my limit.
I see more stupid shit posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any
given day. There's just way too much self-importance here in this group -
and I don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed deserve
recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of themselves. This
group has way too many of those.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 23:09:19 -0500, "[email protected]"
>I have a TS55. While I like it for paneling and plywood, it certainly doesn't
>have much power. It'll bog down on 3/4" hardwood ply, even. I tried to cut a
>2x with it (it was out and my other saws weren't). One cut was fine but I
>wouldn't want to have to do too many. Is it normal for a Festool to be so
>under-powered?
No, it's not right to be underpowered. I've got a friend with a TS55
and he cuts veneered hardwood ply all the time and I've never seen it
bog down. Agreed, it's not near as powerful as the TS75, but you
shouldn't be having power problems cutting. Perhaps you should post
your problem in the Festool Owner's Group.
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 00:30:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/5/11 11:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:38:40 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/5/11 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>>>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>>>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <...>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>>>>
>>>> Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
>>>> guard cover the entire blade?
>>>>
>>>
>>> <http://tedwiebe.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc_00021.jpg>
>>
>> Thanks, but it looks backwards. Doesn't the front-bottom of the guard catch
>> on the wood/fence when it's pulled across it? It also looks like the hinges
>> are backwards, or set up to cut on the push.
>
>No, it's doesn't catch. I guess if your fence is higher than normal, it
>may, but there's also a lift on the handle, to lift it for whatever
>reason, including that.
Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
"kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
>As for the hinges, remember that a RAS also rips. Most guys don't do
>this and think it's dangerous. I've ripped a lot with mine and it's no
>more dangerous than on a table saw, when done correctly.
It's perfectly safe, when done correctly. ;-) I'm one of the "most guys",
though I have ripped a *lot* with it, too. I didn't set it up after the move,
primarily because I didn't like ripping on it. Not that I have a table saw,
that's not an issue.
>FWIW, when end cutting narrow stock, I often pull the saw out, set my
>board, then cut on the push stroke to avoid that forward push sensation
>of a RAS. I also use a blade with a negative hook angle to lessen that.
The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 08:03:54 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/7/2011 11:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>>> If anything, the carriage may try to accelerate, but holding a firm hold
>>> on it is sufficient.
>>
>> If you're lucky and nothing else goes wrong.
>
>I'm older than I think...it's actually been 40+ years and _never_ had
>any of this "anything else" to go wrong yet. I really don't know what
>there is _to_ go wrong.
>
>>> I've used the RAS for 30 years+ and never had even a hint of such a
>>> thing as kickback of material, riding over a board or the other examples
>>> cited.
>>
>> That often happens after a kickback.
>
>Exceptin' it just isn't an issue...
Sure got me to clean out my pants!
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:01:05 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:39:52 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/7/2011 7:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:51:46 GMT, [email protected] (Doug
>> Miller)
>>>> wrote:
>>>...
>>>
>>>>> - If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
>> operator.
>>>>
>>>> Not on a crosscut!
>>>...
>>>
>>>Horse pucky!
>>>
>>>How can it be anything else unless one is standing behind the saw
>>>instead at the operator location?
>>
>>Simple. When a crosscut kicks the wood is *not* thrown back, away from the
>>operator, rather the carriage is propelled *towards* the operator.
>
>Yes, that *can* happen, if the operator isn't feeding the carriage properly.
If no mistakes are ever made, *all* tools are safe.
>But so what? Even if it does, you can't be hurt unless you've done something
>blindingly stupid like operating the saw without the blade guard, or putting
>your other hand in line with the cut.
See above.
On 8/8/2011 6:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...
> Sure got me to clean out my pants!
Prolly needed it anyway... :)
The RAS I have is powerful enough to just keep on trucking--I've never
been able to feed it anything that even gives it a moment's pause. That
includes large old oak and SYP timbers from antebellum houses or other
reclaimed industrial buildings and so on that is some hard stuff...
--
"make the cut"?????
They aren't allowed to turn on those dust collectors in Canada. They do,
however provide a manual hardback saw and a mitre box for the customer to
mangle his/her whole body with when they cut off a piece of trim. Those
things can be dangerous!...LOL
----------------
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
FWIW, My comment about idiot people at the BORG was mostly pointed at
the customers.
With equipment exposed to the public one of them that is not authorized
or qualified is going to help them selves to it when they get tired of
waiting for some one to show up to make the cut.
On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
> one.
>
> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
> goods to manageable size.
>
> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
> years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
> include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
At one time PC had my eye but today If I were to buy another it would be
the Makita. I own a few Bosch tools but have never been impressed
enough to say I would buy them again, 2 routers and an impact driver.
Milwaukee also had my attention long before complaints about a drop in
quality. FWIW I am around construction sites on a pretty regular basis
and the Makita seems to be the favorite.
>
> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have not
> been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
> that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
> actually exist; and
IMHO cordless is going to be good if you have no plan to ever use the
saw but it would be handy to have if that was all you had to make a cut.
Not saying that it cannot perform a task but it is never ever going to
be able to keep up with the cheapest of corded saws. I would never buy
one unless I had a specific need that required a cordless saw.
> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has had
> the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases like
> "gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I just
> don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw
> simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
> having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
> right-handed.
It seems to be a forgotten thing but most saws have the blade on the
right side and were intended to be held with a right handers right hand.
Left sides saws were made available for the south paws. This all
evolved around safety and where you should be standing when operating
the saw. Typically the intent was that the saw body was between you and
the blade. This position also helps to keep a large amount of saw dust
from being thrown back at you. Safety aside the left sided models have
become more popular with right handers because they can see the blade
and the line they want to follow. That does not mean they are using the
correct saw, just that they want to see the spinning blade while it is
cutting. Every saw I have seen and or used has a cut line indicator on
the front of the shoe to give you that information. Once you have used
the saw enough and correctly and as you have indicated for you
personally you become comfortable and proficient with using the
indicator rather than watching the blade. I will never buy a left sides
saw, I am right handed. There are exception's some saws only come with
the left side blade, take the Skil 77 as an example.
>
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
> possible.
Well look closely at your choices as many top brand tools are being
manufactured in China these days.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
> one.
>
> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
> goods to manageable size.
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
> possible.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
I own four.
~ A cordless DeWalt, which has it narrow uses, but narrow is the
operative word and not a "go to" tool.
~ A Makita 5007NB which is one of the best circular saws I've ever
owned, and the one I'd carry with me to most jobs if I could only take
one, and for your above purposes. Light, easy to wield, and has enough
power for all the above.
~ An older Skil77 worm drive, which, although I love it, is just too
much saw too be carrying around unless you're a framer on the joist crew. :)
~ and of course, the Festool TS75, which is a damn fine cabinet circular
saw, but not practical in price or function for most of your needs above.
FWIW, I'd still buy the Makita again if I lost it.
You're sure to get lots of advice on this one ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
In article <[email protected]>, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/4/2011 9:36 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. [...]
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
>> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
>> possible.
>I own four.
>
>~ A cordless DeWalt, which has it narrow uses, but narrow is the
>operative word and not a "go to" tool.
Pretty much what I'd figured to be the case with most cordless circ saws.
>
>~ A Makita 5007NB which is one of the best circular saws I've ever
>owned, and the one I'd carry with me to most jobs if I could only take
>one, and for your above purposes. Light, easy to wield, and has enough
>power for all the above.
Would you happen to know the differences between the 5007NB and the 5007NK?
>
>~ An older Skil77 worm drive, which, although I love it, is just too
>much saw too be carrying around unless you're a framer on the joist crew. :)
>
>~ and of course, the Festool TS75, which is a damn fine cabinet circular
>saw, but not practical in price or function for most of your needs above.
>
>FWIW, I'd still buy the Makita again if I lost it.
>
>You're sure to get lots of advice on this one ...
>
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> In
> Would you happen to know the differences between the 5007NB and the 5007NK?
Looks like the NK has a 15A motor versus a 13A for the NB. The NB was much
more expensive when I bought it ten or twelve years ago then the NK is
today but I don't know how that speaks to quality. Sorry, just not that
familiar with the NK.
In article <[email protected]>, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In
>> Would you happen to know the differences between the 5007NB and the 5007NK?
>
>Looks like the NK has a 15A motor versus a 13A for the NB. The NB was much
>more expensive when I bought it ten or twelve years ago then the NK is
>today but I don't know how that speaks to quality. Sorry, just not that
>familiar with the NK.
Thanks, Karl.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
> one.
>
> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
> goods to manageable size.
>
> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
> years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
> include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>
> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have not
> been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
> that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
> actually exist; and
> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has had
> the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases like
> "gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I just
> don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw
> simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
> having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
> right-handed.
>
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
> possible.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
I have the PC743 (blade left) which I've used the hell out of and it just
keeps on ticking. I think it's been discontinued though. Seeing the blade
and the cut line is nice but the sawdust that gets thrown in my face will make
me opt for a blade right next time.
Art
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I have the PC743 (blade left) which I've used the hell out of and it just
> > keeps on ticking. I think it's been discontinued though. Seeing the blade
> > and the cut line is nice but the sawdust that gets thrown in my face will make
> > me opt for a blade right next time.
> > Art
> >
> >
> So you are right handed. ;~) Your left blade saw was originally
> intended for lefty's that did not want to have saw dust thrown in their
> face all the time.
Yes, I'm a righty.
At the time of purchase the "seeing the cut line" argument seemed rational.
Now a track saw with a fully enclosed blade seems to be the rational
choice for sheet goods.
Art
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Leon" wrote:
>
>> How long did it take to build that boat Lew?
>-------------------------
>18+ years to get the hull, deck, bulkheads and floors.
>
>Still had another 5 years to trim out when I walked away.
>
>Lew
>
>
>http://sites.google.com/site/lewssailboat/
>
>
>
>
How long would it have taken if you didn't have to wait for the batteries
to charge? :)
--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>
> <...>
Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/5/11 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>
>>> <...>
>>
>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>
>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>
> Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
> guard cover the entire blade?
>
<http://tedwiebe.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc_00021.jpg>
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/5/2011 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>
>>> <...>
>>
>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>
>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>
> Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
> guard cover the entire blade? I knew about the $100 for the return of the
> motor but even though I haven't used the thing in 15 years, it's worth more to
> me than the $100. ;-)
Go for it. Mike turned me onto this recall notice too, and I'm glad I followed
up on it. If your saw qualifies, all you gotta do is fill out a form and an
impressive box of goodies shows up on your doorstep. The brand new table board
itself is worth the effort it takes to apply for the recall.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> Go for it. Mike turned me on....
>
Perv.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/5/11 11:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:38:40 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/5/11 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:07:30 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold down the
>>>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the rear of
>>>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>>>
>>>>> <...>
>>>>
>>>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>>>
>>> Didn't know about the new guard and table. I'll look into it but how does a
>>> guard cover the entire blade?
>>>
>>
>> <http://tedwiebe.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc_00021.jpg>
>
> Thanks, but it looks backwards. Doesn't the front-bottom of the guard catch
> on the wood/fence when it's pulled across it? It also looks like the hinges
> are backwards, or set up to cut on the push.
No, it's doesn't catch. I guess if your fence is higher than normal, it
may, but there's also a lift on the handle, to lift it for whatever
reason, including that.
As for the hinges, remember that a RAS also rips. Most guys don't do
this and think it's dangerous. I've ripped a lot with mine and it's no
more dangerous than on a table saw, when done correctly.
FWIW, when end cutting narrow stock, I often pull the saw out, set my
board, then cut on the push stroke to avoid that forward push sensation
of a RAS. I also use a blade with a negative hook angle to lessen that.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> Go for it. Mike turned me on....
>>>
>>
>> Perv.
>
> Tease.
>
Bitch.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
> "kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
> get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
> put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
>
They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
Two very big, heavy boxes.
> The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
> never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
> RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
> RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/8/2011 4:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 10:32:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>>
>>> In article<[email protected]>,
>>> "Lee Michaels"<leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>>>
>>>>> I AM a safety freak.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
>>> set-up and materials...
>>>
>>> For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
>>> advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
>>
>> What's "the danger"?
>>
>> On a table saw you move your fingers into the blade.
>>
>> On an RAS you move the blade into your fingers.
>>
>> Either way you have no fingers.
>>
>> How is one "more dangerous" than the other?
>
> The RAS wants to move the blade toward your fingers. The TS wants to throw
> everything away from the blade (assuming, of course, that your fingers are
> never behind the blade).
Why would you have your fingers in line with the blade - or even near in
line?
On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 10:32:26 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>>
>> [snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>>
>> >>I AM a safety freak.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
>> set-up and materials...
>>
>> For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
>> advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
>
>What's "the danger"?
>
>On a table saw you move your fingers into the blade.
>
>On an RAS you move the blade into your fingers.
>
>Either way you have no fingers.
>
>How is one "more dangerous" than the other?
The RAS wants to move the blade toward your fingers. The TS wants to throw
everything away from the blade (assuming, of course, that your fingers are
never behind the blade).
On 8/6/11 3:48 PM, willshak wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote the following:
>> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold
>>> down the
>>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the
>>> rear of
>>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>>
>>> <...>
>>
>> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>>
>> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>>
>>
>
>
> I got the replacement table and guard for the Craftsman years ago. It's
> still in the box it came in, sitting next to the RAS.
>
That was very helpful.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>>> Go for it. Mike turned me on....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perv.
>>
>> Tease.
>>
>
> Bitch.
Democrat.
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 8/6/11 6:34 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>>>> Go for it. Mike turned me on....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perv.
>>>
>>> Tease.
>>>
>>
>> Bitch.
>
> Democrat.
>
Hey, hey, hey!!! Geez, man... we were just razzing each other and you
had to blow a fuse throw out the D word. wow. chill out, have a beer.
That's the last time I let you see me in tight pants.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
One thing I made sure of is the cast shoe. I had a stamped one on my
previous
saw. Any little bump would whack it out of alignment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I would add is the shoe mounting is as or more important as the
shoe, I think.
It is tough to knock it out of line because the mounting is so heavy. If
you drop it off of the roof, all you do is straighten the shoe with a hammer
and keep on rocking.
The Milwaukee has the type of mount where you can tell exactly how much you
are raising or lowering the blade. It also still cuts on the same place on
shoe notch whether you have the saw on 0 degrees, 25 or 45 degrees.
-- Jim in NC
On 8/6/2011 9:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/6/11 6:34 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> On 8/6/2011 2:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 8/6/11 1:40 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/2011 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 8/5/11 11:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>>>>> Go for it. Mike turned me on....
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perv.
>>>>
>>>> Tease.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bitch.
>>
>> Democrat.
>>
>
> Hey, hey, hey!!! Geez, man... we were just razzing each other and you
> had to blow a fuse throw out the D word. wow. chill out, have a beer.
>
> That's the last time I let you see me in tight pants.
Sorry; maybe I did get a little carried away. :-)
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
I mainly use my girlfriend's Makita 5277B, it totally rocks.
I would trust Milwaukee or Porter Cable any day.
That's about it.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" wrote:
>
>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>---------------------------------------
>You want an argument, change the subject.
>
>Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>
>It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>
>Even that cut gives me the "willies"
Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
- The stock stays put; you can even clamp it to the table if you want. There's
*zero* possibility that a long board can torque crooked, bind, and kick back.
- Since the stock doesn't move, there's no kickback danger posed by cutting
unsurfaced lumber that might rock or twist: shim it, clamp it, cut it.
- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the operator.
- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
Swingman wrote:
> On 8/7/2011 2:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Robatoy" wrote:
>>
>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>> ---------------------------------------
>> You want an argument, change the subject.
>>
>> Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>
>> It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>
>> Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>
> A RAS, and I owned one, is only tool that I always approached with a
> great deal of, if not exactly fear, trepidation. Finally got rid of
> because I was always looking for another way to do something instead of
> using it.
Nice overview of the RAS at the link below. Evidentally, it doesn't tell
"the whole story" (I've never used one). It does say that those made
after the early 60's were generally made to loose tolerances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_arm_saw
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
- If a RAS ever *does* kick back, the wood is thrown *away* from the
operator.
- The saw carriage runs on *rails*. Don't put your hand in line with the
rails, and it's completely impossible to be hit by the blade.
=============
Things bounce when forced to
Never say "never". People cut fingers off on presses that only travel a
straight, repetitive line, unfortunately.
Your turn to peel the potatoes!
--
Eric
On 8/7/2011 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
...
> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
...
I've never had such issues; then again, I have one of the old large
(16") Rockwell-Delta's not the little home-store Sears/DeWalt/etc.
--
On 8/7/11 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
>
>
> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
>
> Max
>
I set mine up years ago, have made more cuts than I can remember and
it's still dead on.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 21:14:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Robatoy wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If a professional
>>>>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
>>>>> believe, I'd like to see
>>>>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to
>>>>> take theirs away.
>>>>
>>>> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it
>>>> that you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding
>>>> things.... I guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it
>>>> was dangerous 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the
>>>> morons and 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
>>>
>>> Morons? Two letters come to mind...
>>
>> I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every
>> one of you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced
>> kids" and all of the other terms that are commonly found here when
>> talking about the BORGS. Most of you are more full of shit than the
>> people you deride. I am one of those BORG people and yeah - I'm
>> spouting off because I've reached my limit. I see more stupid shit
>> posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any given day.
>> There's just way too much self-importance here in this group - and I
>> don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
>> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed
>> deserve recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of
>> themselves. This group has way too many of those.
>
> I'd imagine that you're trepidacious around mirrors, eh, Mike?
Not at all Larry.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:12:30 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 8/8/2011 5:18 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>> > In article<[email protected]>,
>> > "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article<[email protected]>,
>> >> [email protected] says...
>> >>>
>> >>> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>> >>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>> >>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>> >>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
>> >> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
>> >
>> > Brilliant idea!!
>>
>> Ai't it. LOL.. I often use my jig saw and speed square, with the right
>> Bosch blade I get burnished smooth cuts with little to no tear out.
>
>Those Bosch blades (the right one for the job) simply are the
>best.That's not to say that there aren't other good blades (Festool) but
>far be it for me to start a 'discussion' in here.
I borrowed one my clients' Bosch spade bits the other day when I
couldn't find my set in my truck. Hayseuss Crisco, what a difference!
I didn't know a spade bit could cut like that. Scary fast, smooth
sides, super-aggressive feed. I'm completely sold.
Bosch Daredevil. Here's one source:
http://www.toolking.com/bosch-dsb5003-daredevil-spade-bit-set-3-piece
--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington
On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 21:14:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a professional
>>>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
>>>> believe, I'd like to see
>>>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take
>>>> theirs away.
>>>
>>> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
>>> you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I
>>> guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous
>>> 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and
>>> 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
>>
>> Morons? Two letters come to mind...
>
>I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every one of
>you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced kids" and all of
>the other terms that are commonly found here when talking about the BORGS.
>Most of you are more full of shit than the people you deride. I am one of
>those BORG people and yeah - I'm spouting off because I've reached my limit.
>I see more stupid shit posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any
>given day. There's just way too much self-importance here in this group -
>and I don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
>successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed deserve
>recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of themselves. This
>group has way too many of those.
I'd imagine that you're trepidacious around mirrors, eh, Mike?
--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington
In article <rED%[email protected]>, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter saw.
>I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
>Advantages or disadvantages?
There are at least two things you can do with a RAS that you can't do with a
SCMS:
Most radial arm saws allow the saw carriage to be turned at 90 degrees to the
rails, and locked in place, so you can make rip cuts.
Radial arm saws also have long enough arbors to accomodate a dado set.
In article <[email protected]>, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 8/7/2011 2:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
>> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
>> truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
>> right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
>> one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
>
>Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
>every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
>application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
True enough, but it's also true that the primary purpose of a RAS is
crosscuts, not ripping. I haven't ripped even one board on my RAS since I
bought my first TS.
> So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.
I can easily understand preferring to never use one for rip cuts if a TS is
available. Never using one for crosscuts is a bit harder for me to understand:
that's what it was designed to do.
On 8/7/2011 11:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/7/11 10:06 PM, Max wrote:
>>
>>
>> You have mentioned the real deal killer for a RAS. Alignment. There are
>> so many things that have to be just right for a reasonable amount of
>> accuracy. It takes way too long to get it "just right".
>>
>> Max
>>
>
> I set mine up years ago, have made more cuts than I can remember and
> it's still dead on.
Agreed...it's not an issue that Leon makes it to be ime. (After all,
we're working wood here, not machining precision metal...)
--
On 8/8/2011 9:17 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 8:30 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Well that is certainly true but once you start to expect more precision
>> from your equipment your projects reflect that. Keep in mind that I
>> have seriousely been building furniture since the late 70's, have owned
>> both the RAS and TS and find that set up and accuracy to be simpler and
>> better on a cabinet saw. If your are satisfied with the results you get
>> from your RAS that is great. I eventually out grew the limitations of
>> my RAS, both in ripping and in cross cutting and added a TS for the
>> first time in 1983. I never used my RAS again and sold it a few years
>> later.
...
Well, I have a PM66 TS as well, but I'd not (willingly) give up the RAS,
either...
I've been building since in the mid-60s; a significant period of custom
work both furniture and architectural...nobody yet complained about a
lack of results... :)
--
On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
...
> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> crosscut sled on the table saw.
...
If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
--
On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>> ...
>>
>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>
> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
...
It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
you hit it and learn not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
conclusion is either there's something wrong in a shop that one would
get hit so hard and often or it's simply too flimsy if a casual bump can
knock it out of line.
I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
also seen several various Craftsmans of similar lightweight
construction; them I'll grant aren't much of a tool as far as sturdiness
goes altho I used the one Dad had for the kitchen cabinets rather than
drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in the POS
class, though, simply because it was so lightweight. It was also
seriously under-powered for anything other than softwoods or at most
4-quarter hardwoods
Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt weighed
100.
--
On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>
>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>
>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
> ...
>
> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret you hit it and learn
> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>
> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my conclusion is either
> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and often or it's simply
> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>
> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've also seen several
> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll grant aren't much of a
> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the kitchen cabinets rather
> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in the POS class, though,
> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously under-powered for anything other
> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>
> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt weighed 100.
I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and I never adjust it
away from that position. I could see how it could get knocked out of adjustment if got a
good wack, and I do check it periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord,
so I'm happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace it, but I'm
slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to seek one out. If a professional
quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us believe, I'd like to see
what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 08/08/2011 03:32 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>>
>>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>>> ...
>>>
>>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>>> you hit it and learn
>>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>>
>>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>>> conclusion is either
>>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>>> often or it's simply
>>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>>
>>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>>> also seen several
>>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>>> grant aren't much of a
>>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>>> kitchen cabinets rather
>>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>>> the POS class, though,
>>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>>> under-powered for anything other
>>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>>
>>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>>> weighed 100.
>>
>> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
>> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
>> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
>> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
>> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
>> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
>> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
>> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
>> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>>
>
> Not all of them are crap, if you have one built like a tank and typically don't use it to
> its potential on a daily basis it is going to hold up.
>
> Concerning the home center and or lumber yard monsters, if they were any less of a machine
> they would not hold up given the amount of idiot people using it. And FWIW I would never
> want to use the cut produced by one of those saws, every one I have seen has been used
> simply to cut lumber to rough length and square is not a goal nor is it achieved.
True; those saws are not typically set up for accuracy and the abuse they take is not
conducive to accurate cuts, but I don't think such cuts are impossible. I'm sure with the
proper care and feeding you could get near perfect results out of those saws.
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 8/8/11 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>
>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>> ...
>>
>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>> you hit it and learn
>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>
>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>> conclusion is either
>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>> often or it's simply
>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>
>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>> also seen several
>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>> grant aren't much of a
>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>> kitchen cabinets rather
>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>> the POS class, though,
>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>> under-powered for anything other
>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>
>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>> weighed 100.
>
> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>
I was just using mine and even though the settings are still dead on,
it's just such a PITA to change the angles of the cuts. You have raise
the height to change the angle (because of how the blade cuts into the
table in order to make a through cut, then lower it back down.
Every time you want to change either angle.
That's a big reason most guys use it only for crosscuts.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/8/11 5:34 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 3:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/8/11 3:05 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> On 08/08/2011 02:43 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2011 2:25 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/8/2011 9:38 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If a simple bump can do that, it's the POS in "POS RAS" that's the
>>>>>> problem, not that it was a RAS... :)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's inherent in the design. Bump the end of the arm from the side and
>>>>> something's going to give. It's called "leverage".
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> It'd take a hell of a bump to move the arm on my RAS16; you'll regret
>>>> you hit it and learn
>>>> not to do that again if you were to do so... :)
>>>>
>>>> In the roughly 35 years I've not had it be an issue _ever_ so my
>>>> conclusion is either
>>>> there's something wrong in a shop that one would get hit so hard and
>>>> often or it's simply
>>>> too flimsy if a casual bump can knock it out of line.
>>>>
>>>> I've seem the small DeWalts (Dad had one for 'round the farm) and I've
>>>> also seen several
>>>> various Craftsmans of similar lightweight construction; them I'll
>>>> grant aren't much of a
>>>> tool as far as sturdiness goes altho I used the one Dad had for the
>>>> kitchen cabinets rather
>>>> than drag mine from VA to KS and it was serviceable. I'd label it in
>>>> the POS class, though,
>>>> simply because it was so lightweight. It was also seriously
>>>> under-powered for anything other
>>>> than softwoods or at most 4-quarter hardwoods
>>>>
>>>> Not so w/ the 16RAS; it weighs nearly 400 lb; I doubt the DeWalt
>>>> weighed 100.
>>>
>>> I have a Craftsman 10" RAS that I use for 90-degree crosscuts ONLY, and
>>> I never adjust it away from that position. I could see how it could get
>>> knocked out of adjustment if got a good wack, and I do check it
>>> periodically but it never seems to do that of its own accord, so I'm
>>> happy with it. I would like to have a *serious* big-daddy RAS to replace
>>> it, but I'm slightly space constrained and I see no immediate reason to
>>> seek one out. If a professional quality RAS is as useless as a lot of
>>> people here would have us believe, I'd like to see what every home
>>> center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs away.
>>>
>>
>> I was just using mine and even though the settings are still dead on,
>> it's just such a PITA to change the angles of the cuts. You have raise
>> the height to change the angle (because of how the blade cuts into the
>> table in order to make a through cut, then lower it back down.
>> Every time you want to change either angle.
>>
>> That's a big reason most guys use it only for crosscuts.
>>
>>
> You should use a sacrificial table in front of the fence, usually of
> 1/4" ply. This eliminates cutting into the main table. It also lets you
> adjust the saw for miter cuts without raising or lowering the arm by
> returning the motor/blade behind the fence, adjusting the miter and them
> making the miter cut while only cutting into the sacrificial table. You
> do have to raise/lower the arm for bevel cuts though.
>
> I've never had to replace the main table on my RAS as it has never been
> touched by a blade. Fences OTOH are a disposable item. I make mine out
> of poplar. I use baltic birch for the sacricial table and they usually
> last 4-5 years.
I use a sacrificial top. The original is virgin.
I make a lot of bevels, which makes it a PITA imo.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/8/2011 3:48 PM, Leon wrote:
...
> Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
> more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
> approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
> 1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table....
no, No, NO!!!
Like a TS, a good RAS setup is in a table providing infeed and outfeed
support.
You'll play hell doing full-size 2+X hardwoods of large sizes even on
the TS simply for the effort of pushing the material even if do have
support.
Now, no everybody does large architectural work but that's what I did
mostly and the TS was not the tool of choice for much simply because
moving the material was harder than moving the tool by far...it's also
why I have a 16"-er. (It's also why most of the original work in the
old mansions used to refurb was able to be done--hand tools move on
large surfaces, not the other way 'round.)
--
On 8/8/2011 4:04 PM, Robatoy wrote:
...
> The usefulness of a RAS does not negate the fact that is proportionally
> easier to make a serious screw up than with any other power tool.
...
Rob, generally I'll agree w/ you but you're just wrong here...
The RAS isn't nothin' compared to a 1" or larger spindle shaper as to
what you can do to yourself and how quickly, but they're also in many
large shops.
It is, like anything else, an acquired skill and a comfort level comes
w/ that skill and experience.
There's nothing about knots or other things in lumber in a heavy RAS w/
sufficient power to fret over; they simply don't know they exist for the
most part.
The problems of small and under-powered are of note but it's the
limitations of the implementation of the device not the device itself
that's the problem there.
--
On 8/8/2011 4:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>
>>>
>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>
>>
>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>
> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
"A", sure...do 8 or 10 at a time and it's not as much of a slam dunk... :)
--
On 8/8/11 8:14 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I see more stupid shit posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any
> given day.
I'd agree with that.
> There's just way too much self-importance here in this group -
> and I don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed deserve
> recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of themselves. This
> group has way too many of those.
>
I agree with that, too..... even though there's been a time or two I
rode that side of the fence.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>>
>> [snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>>
>> >>I AM a safety freak.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
>> set-up and materials...
>>
>> For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
>> advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
>
>What's "the danger"?
>
>On a table saw you move your fingers into the blade.
Fairly easy to do, since you're using your fingers to feed the wood into the
blade.
>
>On an RAS you move the blade into your fingers.
Only if you're stupid enough to put your fingers in front of the blade.
>
>Either way you have no fingers.
>
>How is one "more dangerous" than the other?
See above: the RAS rides on rails. Keep your fingers away from the path of the
rails, and there's no problem.
On 8/9/2011 6:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 7:37 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 8/8/2011 3:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
>>> more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
>>> approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
>>> 1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table....
>>
>> no, No, NO!!!
>>
>> Like a TS, a good RAS setup is in a table providing infeed and outfeed
>> support.
>
>
> If you will reread what I said, given the way "most" are set up...
Well, _most_ TS are sitting on their own, too, and you wouldn't say that
makes them unsuited for use...it's a selective criticism against the RAS
owing to your bias against it, not a real issue.
--
On 8/8/2011 10:55 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
...
>> It is, like anything else, an acquired skill and a comfort level comes
>> w/ that skill and experience.
>
> And that's another factor. A RAS requires thought, skill, experience.
> Joe Blow, who buys one on Saturday morning, assembles it hastily in
> order to build that dream piece of furniture and a RAS is the perfect
> tool to teach him that there are no short cuts, and second chances only
> come to a lucky few. Same as a 16-year old with a license he got 2 days
> prior, who climbs on a 150HP crotch-rocket. Is that the motorcycle's
> fault? Your argument is that it isn't. (Work with me here). Is it the
> kid's fault?......in fact, it is the combination of the two which causes
> all the grief.
>
> As long as one throws qualifiers at the risk factors involved, all tools
> would end up being safe. We know that that isn't true. The RAS requires
> a disproportionate amount of caution, especially if it is a wobbly piece
> of crap.
...
> You, your experience, smarts, and a fine tool, make that combination as
> safe as it can be. The rest of the RAS's and their operators are at a
> higher risk.
I really don't see how the RAS is any riskier than the cheap homeowner
TS the same Joe Blow could put in the trunk of his car and carry home
for the same purpose...many of them are too small a table, critically
underpowered and flimsy just as does the cheap RAS.
As for the comparison, yes, I do tend to blame the operator as being the
culprit over the tool as a general precept. I suppose being a farm-bred
and raised kid who grew up around large and often far more perilous
equipment(+) gives me an attitude, not to mention having reached
official geezer status. :)
(+) I'm such an old f--- that I predate the advent of required
fully-enclosed PTO shafts, chain shields were generally as minimal as
possible and open platforms. One didn't expect the gear to look out for
you; you knew to respect it and to be the cautious one yourself.
Now, things aren't the way they used to be and it does seem as I assist
at Farm Bureau safety events for kids (they're required to have a course
and certificate to work off their own farmstead now) that there isn't
the awareness that we used to have and an expectation that somehow they
should be protected against whatever happens instead of ensuring that
something bad does _not_ happen. Equipment _is_ safer and that's
_a_good_thing_ (tm) but expectations are so different in societal
blame-shifting it shows up even at this. I do not think that is a good
trend.
--
On 8/9/2011 9:04 AM, Leon wrote:
...
> The whole point is, and you your self have made the comment that the
> DeWalt/B&D style RAS's are less than desirable. Most users use that
> style saw if using a RAS and the users have a valid point about the
> problems that are inherent with RAS's.
>
> Because you use a "Tank of a RAS does not mean that there are not
> deficiencies in the design.
But the same thing is true about the sorry POS benchtop or contractor
wannabe TS's, too...
It's not the RAS per se, just like it's not the TS; it's the
implementation if anything.
The old DeWalt of Dad's is still here; it would be perfectly adequate as
a hobbyist tool w/ one thing--a more powerful motor. At one time one
could, in fact, swap out the components and do so; I tried to talk Dad
into doing it but he was almost done w/ the house remodel so didn't
think it was worth fooling with and so it's still as it was. I brought
my shop from TN when came back, of course, so it's still out there.
I've not gone to trouble of trying to sort out what have so many
duplicates of or which of the combined set is the better to cull the
herd but at some point really should; I've got stuff in every corner of
every outbuilding on the place... :(
Somehow the RAS has become the same emblem of the down and out to be
kicked around just like the BORGs; it's a popular position but is mostly
just reiterating the refrain.
I'll retire from the thread; I think I've made my position clear. The
RAS is a fine tool for the purposes to which it is best suited and is a
worthy complement to the TS in almost any shop. I would still recommend
a _good_ TS as the first acquisition for most folks but I'll never
accept the blanket condemnation of the RAS as a device. Criticism of a
specific tool is something different.
--
On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
...
> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
It may be easier for a one-time deal, surely; but the solution (and imo
which isn't so humble :) ) the only way to have a RAS workstation is to
have it in a long table that supports the largest majority lengths of
material used for both crosscutting and ripping. Mine sits in a 20'
section w/ roughly equal distances both directions. Now granted that's
a little more than most have room for but it now sits in the alleyway of
the barn that's 66 ft unobstructed so it's not a problem. The 20' is
because it fit the full length of the garage wall shop in TN and I've
not enlarged it.
Again, of course, this is a 16" puppy and I had it that size owing to
doing mostly ante- and early post-bellum renovations in Lynchburg, VA,
and surrounding counties when I got it to handle the sizes of materials
we were finding in them.
I'd have been happy w/ a 14 or even 12 but got lucky and an acquaintance
working at the old Lane furniture (then the new production facility was
almost new) got me a deal on this one out of the old facility in Alta Vista.
--
On 8/9/2011 5:17 PM, Max wrote:
...
> Well, Pshaw! I'm goin' out tomorrow and get me one of them 16 inchers.
> How much do they cost?
If you have to ask... :)
No idea, as mentioned in another thread, I got lucky on this from an
acquaintance working at Lane.
It looks like Delta makes nothing but the 10" any more; Original Saw
Company still makes industrial-strength (and priced) RAS up to at least
20". If I had to guess I'd say a 16" would run $5K any way, these days
new. Seems like last time I happened to notice a new blade was roughly
$1500...
--
On 8/9/2011 9:08 PM, Max wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
...
>> ... If I had to guess I'd say a 16" would run $5K any way,
>> these days new. Seems like last time I happened to notice a new blade
>> was roughly $1500...
...
> $1500 just for a blade. I could get a Saw Stop for that much and then I
> wouldn't have to worry about ripping, crosscutting or anything
> 's' okay. I just realized I don't have enough room for it anyway. ;-)
...
A quick search didn't find a distributor w/ online prices listed for the
larger OSC saws but a 2000 review of the 10" in FWW had it listed for
$2500 or thereabouts; I've probably underestimated the larger based on that.
I did see that Freud and some of the others now have 16" blades in the
$100+ price range; I guess the larger cutoff saws have generated some
demand. I might have to explore what is now available; I'm still using
the same blades I got with it originally; they're much heavier than what
one is used to; almost like a (very) small sawmill blade. Hence, at the
rate a small shop uses them up they can be resharpened almost
indefinitely unless one were really, really abusing one with highly
abrasive woods or huge amounts of dirt or foreign objects in reclaimed
material.
That was the hardest on blades in VA; we tried to reuse as much original
material as possible from those old places and would also buy or dive
material from scrap of others that were being razed or gutted by those
who didn't try to refurb but just built new inside the old structures(+)
as raw material sources for those we were refurbishing/restoring.
(+) We tried once bidding the demolition on one of these w/ the idea we
would retrieve instead of just demolish and lost our shirts. The
contract had a time performance penalty and in the end to meet it it was
either go to the demolish route or hire so much extra labor to salvage
what we needed that it didn't pay. :( It was almost heartbreaking to
see what went to burn piles out of some those places...
--
On 8/10/2011 9:04 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 8/9/2011 9:08 PM, Max wrote:
>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
> ...
>
>>> ... If I had to guess I'd say a 16" would run $5K any way,
>>> these days new. Seems like last time I happened to notice a new blade
>>> was roughly $1500...
> ...
>
>> $1500 just for a blade. I could get a Saw Stop for that much and then I
>> wouldn't have to worry about ripping, crosscutting or anything
>> 's' okay. I just realized I don't have enough room for it anyway. ;-)
>
> ...
>
> A quick search didn't find a distributor w/ online prices listed for the
> larger OSC saws but a 2000 review of the 10" in FWW had it listed for
> $2500 or thereabouts; I've probably underestimated the larger based on
> that.
...
Well, not _too_ badly...
<http://www.tools-plus.com/original-saw-3541.html>
(Of course, this is just the "entry-level" model... :) )
If one really were looking for larger RAS, the place is the used market;
they really don't bring top dollar. Of course, you'll generally need
3-phase power or a converter; very few industrial will have single-phase
motors just as most Unisaurs or PM66 or other gear from such sites will
be. Still, for equivalent $$ one can get a lot of machine.
What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer; I
just don't do enough work to justify it any longer. A local shop in
Lynchburg would give us evening/night access to theirs...what a joy to
surface an old 3x12 or such salvaged old-growth beam in a single pass on
the way to turning it into panels or other architectural details...
--
On 8/10/2011 2:28 PM, Robatoy wrote:
...
> I, for one, just love old timber wood and water-logged salvaged wood.
> This link might interest you.
>
> http://www.aquatimber.com/
Hadn't seen that particular one, thanks...there are several.
In the US SE there's quite a lot of cypress and SYP being reclaimed the
same way; lesser amounts of other hardwoods (obviously, given the
indigenous species).
It just pains me to the core to see old timbers go under the wrecking
ball that are perfect inside needing only a little TLC to remove the
foreign material and resurface or resaw... :(
Heck, I save every old tuba-X from the old sheds and barn addition and
everything else out here and will eventually use most of it
somewhere...it's only 100 yr-old (roughly) SYP but there are 18- and
20-ft 2x6 w/o a knot or more than very small ones all over...
There are some more recent vintage (late-50s) 20- and even a couple of
24-ft 2x8 and 2x10 Doug fir joists in the haymow leftover from when we
built the feedmill and associated bins into the loft. I can't imagine
what one of those would cost at a lumber yard today if one could even
find such a thing...
I'm not sure what I will do with them; I can't bring myself to cut them
up... :)
I've a picture or two of the barn under construction just after WWI--the
cost of the timber used for the scaffolding would cost more than a good
sized house finished today, I'm sure... :)
--
On 8/10/2011 2:15 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer;...
_Just_KNEW_ shouldn't have mentioned that; that got me to drooling again...
<http://www.mlsmachinery.com/onlinecatalog/imagesFrameset.asp?id=26354&pic=2&size=0>
I asked for a quote; we'll see what they say... :)
--
On 8/11/2011 10:10 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Aug 11, 9:56 am, dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 8/10/2011 2:15 PM, dpb wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> What I still covet is a 16" or larger Crescent or similar old jointer;...
>>
>> _Just_KNEW_ shouldn't have mentioned that; that got me to drooling again...
>>
>> <http://www.mlsmachinery.com/onlinecatalog/imagesFrameset.asp?id=26354...>
>>
>> I asked for a quote; we'll see what they say... :)
>>
>> --
>
> When you see 3 belts driving a cutterhead, something serious is about
> to happen.<G>
> The SIZE of that beast!
> So... they're going to ship it UPS?
Yeah, they'll just load the UPS truck on the semi, no problem... :)
From FL out here will have to enter in to the picture for sure. I
bought a JLG 40H 40-ft boom manlift the year came back to the farm owing
to needing the reroof job on it and the house plus several other high
jobs could see including trees. Broker was in FL while machine outside
Chicago--he had arrangement w/ private trucking and guaranteed it for
$600--ended up costing $800 but he kept his bargain. It weighed about
12k lb and took up most of the load; if they can find shared load one of
these is probably about 2000lb and doesn't take up much space so
shouldn't be _too_ bad but it's been a while since I've shipped
something sizable; fuel surcharges have to be a factor.
I've not heard on this one; they sent a $3500 quote for a 12" Crescent
w/ a "make an offer" disclaimer. I'm sure I'll manage to fight off the
urge, but it's a temptation, sure... :)
BTW, they've a nice-looking 16" General up north closer to you; somebody
has even retrofitted it for single-phase...
<http://www.mlsmachineryusa.com/onlineCatalog/details.asp?cat=1270&auct=0&liq=0&id=25925&p=1&rpp=10>
That'll prep some stock for the carver... :)
--
On 8/11/2011 8:16 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Aug 11, 6:35 pm, dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
...
>> BTW, they've a nice-looking 16" General up north closer to you; somebody
>> has even retrofitted it for single-phase...
>>
>> <http://www.mlsmachineryusa.com/onlineCatalog/details.asp?cat=1270&auc...>
>>
>> That'll prep some stock for the carver... :)
>>
>> --
>
> Awww maaaan..... they have CNC's too......
Go for it...you know you _need_ it.
--
If you are referring to a RAS capacity, I fail to see much difference. My
$179 10" cuts a 2x12 (hundreds of them) and has a few more space to go. I
would have actually check the throat capacity to be sure. I believe I have
to do a flip over for 3/4" x 16" shelving to get the last 1"
----------------
"Max" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
13 1/2 inch crosscut.
I finally built a crosscut jig to use with a circular saw.
-------------------
> Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter
> saw.
> I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
> Advantages or disadvantages?
>
> --
>
> Eric
On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:42:27 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
>> Something went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows
>> half a dozen segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts
>> are no longer available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so
>> it's time to buy a new one.
>>
>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks,
>> cutting sheet goods to manageable size.
>>
>> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one
>> that
>> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted
>> nearly 20 years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is
>> large enough to include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>>
>> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
>> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws
>> have not been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing
>> to be persuaded that cordless circular saws that won't drain a
>> battery in five seconds do actually exist; and
>> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used
>> has had the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws
>> includes phrases like "gives users the clearest line of sight for
>> easy, accurate cutting" but I just don't see how it's really any
>> different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw simply because
>> that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to having
>> the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
>> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
>> right-handed.
>>
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models
>> both to seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China
>> if at all possible.
>>
>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold
>> homebrew or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
>-----------
>
>Judging from the replies, everybody pretty much likes what they have.
If I didn't I would buy something else. ...and have.
>Therefore, one conclusion is get the saw that has the most attractive paint
>job - you'll get used to it.
It's more than paint.
On 8/5/2011 1:01 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> How long did it take to build that boat Lew?
> -------------------------
> 18+ years to get the hull, deck, bulkheads and floors.
>
> Still had another 5 years to trim out when I walked away.
>
> Lew
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/lewssailboat/
>
>
>
Have seen the picture before and again, Lovely project Lew!
On 8/5/2011 10:17 AM, willshak wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote the following:
>> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday.
>> Something went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows
>> half a dozen segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts
>> are no longer available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's
>> time to buy a new one.
>> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting
>> sheet goods to manageable size.
>>
>> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one
>> that died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted
>> nearly 20 years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is
>> large enough to include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>>
>> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
>> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws
>> have not been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing
>> to be persuaded that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery
>> in five seconds do actually exist; and
>> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used
>> has had the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws
>> includes phrases like "gives users the clearest line of sight for
>> easy, accurate cutting" but I just don't see how it's really any
>> different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw simply because that's
>> what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to having the
>> blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain them
>> to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
>> right-handed.
>
>
> I have never had a left hand bladed C saw. First, I didn't know they
> existed before some comments made in this, or some other home or
> construction group.
> I do have a very old Skilsaw wormdrive saw that belonged to my FiL, now
> deceased. The saw has been languishing in a dark corner of my garage for
> a decade.
> It has some missing parts related to safety and I never used it or even
> turned it on, besides, it is a monster and heavy. Looking at it just
> now, I see it is left bladed.
> I too am right handed, and I can see some benefit to having a saw with a
> left handed blade, especially the "gives users the clearest line of
> sight for easy, accurate cutting" part. Another I would think would be a
> safety issue.
> Holding a piece of wood steady, whether fenced or unfenced with the left
> hand, then cutting on the other side of the right hand bladed saw
> requires that your head is also on the right side of the saw to aim the
> cut leaving the left hand in your peripheral vision and could be in the
> way of the motor side as it saws. I like the idea that the holding,
> aiming, and cutting, is on the same side of the saw. I guess left handed
> people already are doing this with the right handed blade saws.
> Why are most, if not all, radial arm saws left bladed?
> Just my opinion, YMMV.
It "sounds" logical and like a good idea, it is not. Most all power
tools come with some kind of warning to not bend over or align you eyes
directly with the cutting edge of the blade. bit, what ever. The
"common" circular saw is not a precision tool. Although skilled and
long time users can do wonders with circular saw it is a developed
skill. The intent by the manufacturer is for you use the alignment mark
at the front of the shoe to line up your saw and then start the saw and
make the cut with your head and eyes on the opposite side of the blade.
Yes your cut is probably not going to be square or a straight line.
This is a free hand tool and practice makes perfect.
The RAS is a different set up altogether. While a circular saw's blade
rotation directs the debris back behind the saw, in your direction, the
RAS directs the debris away from the operator. Same with miter saws.
That said when ripping with a RAS the debris comes back at the operator
however the guard should be rotated down on the back side of the blade
to divert the debris, and prevent kickback providing you are using the
splitter and anti kick back pawls.
>
> .
>
>> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models
>> both to seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China
>> if at all possible.
>>
>> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold
>> homebrew or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
>
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:07:40 -0700, Doug Winterburn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
>>>> "kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks to
>>>> get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I never
>>>> put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
>>> Two very big, heavy boxes.
>>
>> Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.
>>
>>>> The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands are
>>>> never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same with a
>>>> RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when using the
>>>> RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
>>>
>>> I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
>>> would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
>>> pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
>>> blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.
>>
>> The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator. It
>> seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
>> electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS are
>> over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.
>>
>
>My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
>motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
>and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
>rate control thumb dial. Works great.
Ok, so someone stole my idea. ;-)
On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:17:25 -0400, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 11:34:34 -0500, "[email protected]"
>>I don't know if "challenge" is the right word. It cuts but it will bog down
>>if I put any pressure on it. It cuts a lot slower than I expected. I'll
>>contact Festool. Thanks for the information.
>
>I was thinking, could the problem be your technique? When you're
>ripping a sheet of plywood, how much of your blade is protruding
>through the plywood? If your blade is protruding through the plywood
>an inch or more then it's too much.
Could be. With the Festool, just enough to break the surface (plus maybe
1/16"). With other saws, I try to get the whole tooth out of the material.
Not sure this is proper technique, either.
>It's generally accepted in Festool circles that 1-2 mm through what
>your cutting is the proper depth of cut.
I figured that's why they added accurate depth control. ;-)
On 8/8/2011 5:18 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>>
>>> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>>
>> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
>> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
>
> Brilliant idea!!
Ai't it. LOL.. I often use my jig saw and speed square, with the right
Bosch blade I get burnished smooth cuts with little to no tear out.
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 05:29:23 -0400, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 23:09:19 -0500, "[email protected]"
>>I have a TS55. While I like it for paneling and plywood, it certainly doesn't
>>have much power. It'll bog down on 3/4" hardwood ply, even. I tried to cut a
>>2x with it (it was out and my other saws weren't). One cut was fine but I
>>wouldn't want to have to do too many. Is it normal for a Festool to be so
>>under-powered?
>
>No, it's not right to be underpowered. I've got a friend with a TS55
>and he cuts veneered hardwood ply all the time and I've never seen it
>bog down. Agreed, it's not near as powerful as the TS75, but you
>shouldn't be having power problems cutting.
Thanks. See my reply to Leon. It cuts but with no "authority" at all. It's
like it's not cutting straight, but it can't be since it's on the track.
> Perhaps you should post
>your problem in the Festool Owner's Group.
Good idea. Thanks! I was considering getting one of the stores to demo a new
one. Highland has a setup that looks like it's used frequently. Next time
I'm up there...
On 8/8/2011 6:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Ai't it. LOL.. I often use my jig saw and speed square, with the
>> right Bosch blade I get burnished smooth cuts with little to no tear
>> out.
> ---------------------------------
> And here I thought I was the only one who pulled that trick.
>
> Great minds run in the same gutter<G>
>
> Lew
>
>
Now there is two or more of us Lew. ;~)
Doug Miller wrote the following:
> My old faithful corded circular saw finally bit the dust yesterday. Something
> went Pop! and it stopped running. Disassembly today shows half a dozen
> segments missing from the commutator; the critical parts are no longer
> available (after 15+ years, that's no surprise), so it's time to buy a new
> one.
>
> My uses are, I think, pretty typical: framing, building decks, cutting sheet
> goods to manageable size.
>
> I'm looking for something that will last a good long time. The one that
> died is only the second one I've ever owned; the first one lasted nearly 20
> years, and I'm hoping for similar durability. The budget is large enough to
> include Bosch, Makita, or Milwaukee, but not Festool.
>
> I'm looking for general recommendations in two areas:
> a) corded vs. cordless -- my experiences with cordless circular saws have not
> been positive, but they've been cheap saws, and I'm willing to be persuaded
> that cordless circular saws that won't drain a battery in five seconds do
> actually exist; and
> b) left blade vs. right blade. Every circular saw that I've ever used has had
> the blade on the right. Advertising for left-blade saws includes phrases like
> "gives users the clearest line of sight for easy, accurate cutting" but I just
> don't see how it's really any different. I'm inclined to get a right-blade saw
> simply because that's what I'm used to, but if there truly are advantages to
> having the blade on the left, I'd be much obliged if someone would explain
> them to me. In case it makes a difference to the recommendation, I'm
> right-handed.
>
I have never had a left hand bladed C saw. First, I didn't know they
existed before some comments made in this, or some other home or
construction group.
I do have a very old Skilsaw wormdrive saw that belonged to my FiL, now
deceased. The saw has been languishing in a dark corner of my garage for
a decade.
It has some missing parts related to safety and I never used it or even
turned it on, besides, it is a monster and heavy. Looking at it just
now, I see it is left bladed.
I too am right handed, and I can see some benefit to having a saw with a
left handed blade, especially the "gives users the clearest line of
sight for easy, accurate cutting" part. Another I would think would be a
safety issue.
Holding a piece of wood steady, whether fenced or unfenced with the left
hand, then cutting on the other side of the right hand bladed saw
requires that your head is also on the right side of the saw to aim the
cut leaving the left hand in your peripheral vision and could be in the
way of the motor side as it saws. I like the idea that the holding,
aiming, and cutting, is on the same side of the saw. I guess left handed
people already are doing this with the right handed blade saws.
Why are most, if not all, radial arm saws left bladed?
Just my opinion, YMMV.
.
> I'm also looking for recommendations of specific brands and/or models both to
> seek out, and to avoid. I intend to avoid tools made in China if at all
> possible.
>
> TIA... Thanks may also be expressed tangibly, in the form of a cold homebrew
> or three, next time you pass through Indianapolis.
>
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
On 8/7/2011 2:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "Robatoy" wrote:
>>
>>> RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
>> ---------------------------------------
>> You want an argument, change the subject.
>>
>> Cerritos college has ONE (1) RAS in the entire facility.
>>
>> It's use is restricted to cross cutting rough stock to length.
>>
>> Even that cut gives me the "willies"
>
> Why should it? I've never understood the antipathy that many guys here have
> toward radial arm saws. One person used to call them "radical harm saws" and I
> truly don't understand why. It's just a case of using the right tool for the
> right job. A radial arm saw is *not* the right tool for ripping (not the best
> one, anyway), but IMHO it's safer than a table saw for crosscuts:
Well you may have answered your own question there Doug. While most
every one will agree that the RAS is not comforting to use in the rip
application, it is indeed built and intended to be used to rip material.
So that is probably why most every one would prefer to never use one.
FWIW I owned one for about 5 years and build a lot of furniture that I
still own today and did quite a bit of ripping with it. For me I had
more problems with it while crosscutting, probably because I did mostly
cross cutting but I never got used to cutting into a narley SYP knot and
the blade and motor trying to climb up over the board rather than cut
through the knot, for what ever reason. ;~)
Three years after buying it I added a contractors saw to my shop and
literally never used the RAS again.
On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:48:23 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 8/8/2011 1:43 PM, Max wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>>
>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
>>>
>>
>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>
>Given the way most RAS's are set up, squaring that board might be a bit
>more diffident once you actually try that. IIRC the blade is
>approximately 30 inches from the end of the table so you have about 7
>1/2 feet of board hanging off of the table. Clamping is not really
>going to be effective but having some one else or something to support
>the board would be needed. You have a 2.5 to 1 leverage ratio working
>against you. Not saying that you cannot do it, it is just not as
>straight forward as making a cut when the wood is not going to be
>working against you.
Roller infeed support or a 8+ foot infeed table is REQUIRED for any
kind of accuracy on a RAS.
>
>That is not going to be as big of a problem problem on a 50" capacity TS
>with a closer 1/1 leverage ratio. I squared 7, 8' 1x8 today with a
>miter gauge and did not give it a second thought.
A sliding table cabinet saw is the most accurate for squaring stock.
>
>Now if your RAS has a long table on one or both both sides you have over
>come one of the unique problems.
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I grew up around radial arm saws. I used them for many years. I did lots
of work with dados and having to cut a lot of stock to length. It worked
great for that. I have used mostly large, commercial 12 inch saws. At one
time, every house construction project had a radial arm saw on site. I knew
this guy who used to fabricate metal trailers which mounted a radial arm saw
on it with a roof. He would just tow it to the site. He built about ten of
them and rented them out.
I have done thousands of cuts on these saws over the years. I have all ten
fingers and toes. Of course, I AM a safety freak. I never understood these
irrational fear about these saws. There are an abundance of ways to injure
yourself with power tools. People do it all the time. I just wonder what
the safety practices are of those folks who fear these saws.
I will be the first to admit that there are more tool options available now
that did not exist way back when. So the saw may not be as needed as it
once was. And I know those old dewalts were a really good piece of
equipment. Folks are buying those and restoring them. I don't have one
now, not enough room. But when I get a bigger shop, I will be putting a RAS
in. I am comfortable with it and I would use it regularly.
=====================
Never used a RAS but wonder how they compare with a good sliding miter saw.
I couldn't live without one, even a cheap one.
Advantages or disadvantages?
--
Eric
On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 17:01:03 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:18:21 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>> My old Milwaukee and my old Delta are both twice the saw virtually
>>anything avalable today is. About 10 years or so ago I took out the
>>armature on the delta cutting aluminum - I had a choice - something
>>like $120 for a new armature, of $69 for a new cheap saw. I'm sure I
>>made the right choice, because I still have that saw. The cheap $69
>>saw would have been in the dump long ago.
>
>Why were there only the two choices you mentioned?
>
>I would have taken the $120 and bought a new decent saw rather the a
>new cheap saw. Metal casings can be a shock hazard.
At the time a GOOD saw was still considereably more than I paid for
the part - and a metal housing saw, with a properly grounded cord, is
no more of a shock danger than a cheap plastic saw. A GOOD plastic saw
isn't much better. The BIGGEST shock danger with ANY saw is cutting
the cord.
On 8/5/2011 2:48 PM, Artemus wrote:
> "Leon"<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> I have the PC743 (blade left) which I've used the hell out of and it just
>>> keeps on ticking. I think it's been discontinued though. Seeing the blade
>>> and the cut line is nice but the sawdust that gets thrown in my face will make
>>> me opt for a blade right next time.
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>> So you are right handed. ;~) Your left blade saw was originally
>> intended for lefty's that did not want to have saw dust thrown in their
>> face all the time.
>
> Yes, I'm a righty.
> At the time of purchase the "seeing the cut line" argument seemed rational.
> Now a track saw with a fully enclosed blade seems to be the rational
> choice for sheet goods.
> Art
Oh hell yeah! The track saw coupled with a vac means you have to look
for saw dust after ripping a sheet of plywood. Not to mention you only
align the saw up on top of the track, no guess work as to where the saw
is going to cut once the track is placed.
It works good at turning s2s lumber into s2s1e also, faster than using a
jointer on long pieces.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
[snipped all be the important part.LOL]
>>I AM a safety freak.
>
>
There you have it. You HAVE to be 110% awake, NO routine cuts, perfect
set-up and materials...
For a super careful, vigilant user, RAS's offer only a small set of
advantages that simple aren't worth the danger.
In article <[email protected]>,
Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> If a professional
> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us believe, I'd
> like to see
> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take theirs
> away.
The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I guess
somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous 'as is'.
They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and 'safety-ise' the
bejeezus out of that RAS.
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, lcb11211
> @swbelldotnet says...
> >
> > On 8/9/2011 7:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> > > In article<[email protected]>,
> > > Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> > >>> On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > >>> ...
> > >>>
> > >>>> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> > >>>> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> > >>>> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> > >>>> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> > >>>> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> > >>>
> > >>> I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> > >>> won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> > >>> I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
> > >>
> > >> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> > >> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> > >> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> > >> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> > >> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
> > >>
> > >> Did I just say that? ;~0
> > >
> > > Oh yes you did!
> > >
> > > I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
> > > no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
> > > split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
> > > smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
> >
> >
> > Like minds... I was backing up dpb on this one, don't care if the
> > plonked on sees it or not.
>
> Funny thing is, dpb reacted like an adult. Pity you and Robatoy can't.
You can't read my posts. Henceforth, I don't know what you're talking
about.
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/6/2011 6:10 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 15:32:45 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/6/11 2:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>> Thnaks. I ordered the "kit" for my saw (113.19771). It implies that the
> >>> "kit" contains a guard and table. The site said it would take 8-10 weeks
> >>> to
> >>> get here. Since it was some time before 1993 (we moved that year and I
> >>> never
> >>> put it back together) when I last used it, I think I can wait. ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >> They said "8-10 weeks" when I ordered mine and it showed up 3 days later.
> >> Two very big, heavy boxes.
> >
> > Then I'll have to find a place to store 'em.
> >
> >>> The issue I have is on the other side of the blade. With a TS my hands
> >>> are
> >>> never on the back side when power is on. I suppose one can do the same
> >>> with a
> >>> RAS, but it's awkward. OTOH, I never stood in the line of fire when
> >>> using the
> >>> RAS. With a TS it's a little more difficult to stand completely aside.
> >>
> >> I actually came up with a good idea for a brake on the sliding arm that
> >> would always be engaged and only disengage when the squeeze handle was
> >> pulled. There would be a ratcheting system that would not allow the
> >> blade assembly to move unless the trigger was pulled.
> >
> > The other danger is the blade powering the carriage towards the operator.
> > It
> > seems that sort of thing could take care of that, too. With modern
> > electronics such a thing would be trivial but I think the days of the RAS
> > are
> > over. I certainly wouldn't buy one now.
> >
>
> My current Searz RAS has a feature called "control cut". It's a
> motorized cable that only lets the motor advance at a controlled rate
> and retracts the motor when the trigger is released. It has a variable
> rate control thumb dial. Works great.
Oh yea... sounds REAL safe. The motor retracts itself past the 'just
cut' little pieces while the blade is still spinning down or even
stopped? Can't you hear that wonderful sound of KAHcchAAANGGG when it
jams a cut-off into the slot? What the hell, a new blade, maybe an eye,
maybe a thumb....
RAS should be O U T L A W E D ! !
In article <[email protected]>,
"Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
> >
> > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> > crosscut sled on the table saw.
> >
>
> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>
> Max
The usefulness of a RAS does not negate the fact that is proportionally
easier to make a serious screw up than with any other power tool.
A Big ol' beefy 12" Delta, from industrial yore, is a mighty fine piece
of gear which will do things other devices won't. BUT, you best be
really careful, be very alert, and make sure there's no hidden cuppage
or twistage (suck on those two words, spelchucker) in your stock... or a
know even.
Now add the instability of the sheetmetal, stamped pieces of shit that
Craftsman put out and you have amplified the danger by a large
percentage. A sloppy arm with a wonky motor with crap bearings and a
whirling, toothed wheel of death hanging, spinning in mid air over a
work surface is just NOT my idea of a device that makes me all
comfy-womfy in terms of safety.
BTW, all you proponents of the RAS... If you ever need to cut an end off
a 12' x 1x6.. do what I do. A Swanson aluminum Speedsquare and a
circular saw. I can get a pretty nice cut anywhere any time without
first have to clean all the crap off the RAS table and move countless
objects d'art so I can manoeuvre a hunk of lumber, through a shop just
to do that simple operation on a very dangerous piece of crap.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > Robatoy wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If a professional
> >>> quality RAS is as useless as a lot of people here would have us
> >>> believe, I'd like to see
> >>> what every home center and lumber yard would do if you tried to take
> >>> theirs away.
> >>
> >> The RAS at Home Despot has so many safety devices attached to it that
> >> you can hardly tell it is a RAS. Trap doors, sliding things.... I
> >> guess somehow, the industrial safety crowd thought it was dangerous
> >> 'as is'. They then felt compelled to deal with the morons and
> >> 'safety-ise' the bejeezus out of that RAS.
> >
> > Morons? Two letters come to mind...
>
> I'm going to tag on to my own post - because I'm pissed. Fuck every one of
> you that delight in describing "morons" and "pimple faced kids" and all of
> the other terms that are commonly found here when talking about the BORGS.
> Most of you are more full of shit than the people you deride. I am one of
> those BORG people and yeah - I'm spouting off because I've reached my limit.
> I see more stupid shit posted here than I hear spoken in the store on any
> given day. There's just way too much self-importance here in this group -
> and I don't care what you've done in your career. I've seen a lot of very
> successful people with great skills and accomplishments, who indeed deserve
> recoginition, but at the same time, think too much of themselves. This
> group has way too many of those.
Take a powder, Mike. Relax. You can't tell me that Home Depot is 'moron
free'. I have stared into the vacuum of their eyes. There ARE pimply
faced kids that are left in charge of departments where their help is
useless. Most of the time it's not their fault. A sub-manager needs to
fill a hole and says: "Jason, you are in paint tonight."
I walk in and ask a question about primer for cedar. "Gee, I don't
know..."
I understand why he doesn't know, he hasn't been around long enough,
never went out on a paint crew, so what-the-fuck do I expect for minimum
wage?
Now, somehow you swing this hard over to the an extreme rant. Self
importance and derision?
When I asked the 'associate' about primer for cedar, it was *I* who knew
fuck-all, and he was no help and that's his fucking job. It is the STORE
that tries to get away with unqualified staff, because heaven forbid
they'd have to pay them a decent wage...AKA.. when you pay peanuts, you
get monkeys.
...and man, you've been some cranky lately.
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Like minds... I was backing up dpb on this one, don't care if the
> > > > plonked on sees it or not.
> > >
> > > Funny thing is, dpb reacted like an adult. Pity you and Robatoy can't.
> >
> > You can't read my posts.
>
> I can't? What is preventing me?
>
> > Henceforth, I don't know what you're talking
> > about.
>
> That has been abundantly clear for some time.
Read it again. I do not know what YOU are talking about.... and that's
okay by me.
In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 4:04 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> ...
>
> > The usefulness of a RAS does not negate the fact that is proportionally
> > easier to make a serious screw up than with any other power tool.
>
> ...
>
> Rob, generally I'll agree w/ you but you're just wrong here...
Hell, that's happened before. But what have here, is someone (you) who
defends the RAS from the vantage point of having a rugged, rigid
industrial 16" and my beef is with the far less secure crap that is in
the majority.
>
> The RAS isn't nothin' compared to a 1" or larger spindle shaper as to
> what you can do to yourself and how quickly, but they're also in many
> large shops.
Oh hell, yes. A shaper is probably the nastiest piece of gear out
there...jointers can eat a hand right to the wrist and blow a cloud of
pink mist all over the shop.
>
> It is, like anything else, an acquired skill and a comfort level comes
> w/ that skill and experience.
And that's another factor. A RAS requires thought, skill, experience.
Joe Blow, who buys one on Saturday morning, assembles it hastily in
order to build that dream piece of furniture and a RAS is the perfect
tool to teach him that there are no short cuts, and second chances only
come to a lucky few. Same as a 16-year old with a license he got 2 days
prior, who climbs on a 150HP crotch-rocket. Is that the motorcycle's
fault? Your argument is that it isn't. (Work with me here). Is it the
kid's fault?......in fact, it is the combination of the two which causes
all the grief.
As long as one throws qualifiers at the risk factors involved, all tools
would end up being safe. We know that that isn't true. The RAS requires
a disproportionate amount of caution, especially if it is a wobbly piece
of crap.
>
> There's nothing about knots or other things in lumber in a heavy RAS w/
> sufficient power to fret over; they simply don't know they exist for the
> most part.
I agree. Underpowered saws are more dangerous.
>
> The problems of small and under-powered are of note but it's the
> limitations of the implementation of the device not the device itself
> that's the problem there.
>
> --
You, your experience, smarts, and a fine tool, make that combination as
safe as it can be. The rest of the RAS's and their operators are at a
higher risk.
In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 5:18 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> In article<[email protected]>,
> >> [email protected] says...
> >>>
> >>> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> >>>> wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> >>>> don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> >>>> crosscut sled on the table saw.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
> >>
> >> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
> >> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
> >
> > Brilliant idea!!
>
> Ai't it. LOL.. I often use my jig saw and speed square, with the right
> Bosch blade I get burnished smooth cuts with little to no tear out.
Those Bosch blades (the right one for the job) simply are the
best.That's not to say that there aren't other good blades (Festool) but
far be it for me to start a 'discussion' in here.
In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 8/9/2011 7:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> > On 8/9/2011 3:42 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >> "Infeed" and "outfeed" are meaningless terms when talking about cross-
> >> cutting on a RAS. It's a lot easier to lay the thing on the RAS table
> >> and prop up the ends with saw horses or stools or a rope tied to the
> >> ceiling than it is to work out some kind of movable or low friction
> >> support for the ends as is needed with a table saw.
> >
> > I never talked about "infeed" or "outfeed" (intentionally, anyway; I
> > won't say I didn't write something confusingly inadvertently :) ); there
> > I was indending the directions to be those when ripping.
>
> He who is plonked is a little slow and prides himself when he can find a
> statement that can be understood in a way. Helps him think of himself
> as an expert. They are in feed and out feed tables as you mentioned,
> making the comparison to the TS. As you well know they don't change
> names because you happen to use them for cross cutting also.
>
> Did I just say that? ;~0
Oh yes you did!
I wrote a few lines similar to yours, Leon, but discarded it as there is
no way Clarke will ever stop trying to sound important. If he needs to
split hairs, jerk-off a mosquito to do so, he will. He's all
smoke-and-mirrors and I doubt there's real substance.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
> > BTW, all you proponents of the RAS... If you ever need to cut an end
> > off
> > a 12' x 1x6.. do what I do. A Swanson aluminum Speedsquare and a
> > circular saw.
> -----------------------------
> Even works well with an 18VDC panel saw.
>
> Lew
I am still quite fond of my Skil worm drive....although getting a tad
heavier than I remember.
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> >
> > >
> > > While an RAS, perfectly aligned, is a wonderful tool, bump it in the
> > > wrong place and you have to go through the whole process again. I just
> > > don't get the same repeatability out of the RAS that I do out of a
> > > crosscut sled on the table saw.
> > >
> >
> > Yabbut....squaring the end of a ten foot 1 X 12? ;-)
>
> Is easier with a Speed Square and a Skilsaw than with any stationary
> machine. If you need more precision you make a jig.
Brilliant idea!!
-MIKE- wrote the following:
> On 8/5/11 7:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> The guard on my old (30 years) crapsman rotates to the front to hold
>> down the
>> board against kickback. The pawls and splitter rotate down from the
>> rear of
>> the guard. The guard doesn't do squat for flying sawdust.
>>
>> <...>
>
> Did you look into getting the free replacement table and guard?
>
> http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/
>
>
I got the replacement table and guard for the Craftsman years ago. It's
still in the box it came in, sitting next to the RAS.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
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