Totally OT Drive By!

woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
>> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
>> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
>> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
>> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
>> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
>>
>> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
>> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
>> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
>> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
>> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
>> $665. Sweet.
>>
>> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
>>
>> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
>> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
>> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
>> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
>> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
>> Sweeeter.
>>
>> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
>> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
>> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
>> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>>
>> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
>> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
>> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
> Well you deserve a BIG YOU SUCK!
>

Yeah. LOL

dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 05/13/2017 8:31 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> Ironically when I visit the CC company and review my spending for the
>> month the CC company actually marks certain purchases as possibly being
>> eligible for a price match. With that marker there is a link to add the
>> item to a list of items to be watched. You can either hunt for them and
>> send in the documentation of let them do the looking. That is what
>> happened on this GPS/Radio on the second credit.
>
>
> Yeah, it's all a bunch o' 'bots in the background...that part I grok.

Absolutely. And I'm sure that price matching feature is considered a cost
of doing business.


>
> I don't have accounts online so wasn't thinking of that interaction for
> the listing check box. Somebody will eventually wake up to the fact
> that once they've paid a match on a given item they've fulfilled their
> obligation and will close that loophole in the code... :)

This is not really a new feature. I have heard of this benefit for many
years maybe a decade or so. But! I never realized how easy it would be to
take advantage of. When the CC company lists your monthly charges and
actually points out possible eligible purchases it is even easier than I
thought. The hard part is scanning a copy of the receipt and emailing the
copy.

Anyway, my card also offers limited time protection against merchants that
will not take back and credit a purchase, up to $500. IIRC.

And IIRC. There is limited protection against breaking a purchase.


>
> Now figure out a way to phake the matching data! :)
>
> --
>

Naaa, I don't want to fraud the CC company.

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 5:50:58 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 05/12/2017 2:50 PM, Lap Joint wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>
> > Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> ...
>
> >> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. ...
> >
> > according to JET.COM customer service (855)538-4323 USD$596 is the lowest price
> > they ever had for the pioneer avic-6200nex
> ...
>
> A closeout on discontinued model, maybe?
>
> What I don't really understand is why the CC company would be doing this
> at all...I can see the marketing ploy to get a new card customer of
> "we'll match whatever you can find".
>
> But once they've got that card business don't see how it makes any sense
> at all to make; that seems as though does nothing but take $$$ off the
> bottom line which business model doesn't really match with my idea of CC
> companies. :)
>
> Leon -- any chance you've got plug in activated that's doing this and it
> just _looks like_ it's coming from Citi or some such scenario???
>
> What's that late-night TV ad place I see that's supposed to some kind of
> bidding site? If found the particular item at that kind of site could
> see a really low price, comparatively.
>
> --

Deal Dash?

On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:43:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 5/13/2017 12:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:39:48 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>>>
>>>> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>>>
>>>> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.
>>>>
>>>> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!
>>>>
>>>
>>> On top of all that he owns his house ::gasp::
>>
>> I have three more payments. ;-)
>>
>
>I am on my negative 246th payment. ;~) Enjoy the freedom.

Now SWMBO wants to move. :-(

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:22:49 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

> Six to seven hundred at the end of the year. I save it to help relieve
> Christmas.

Although I pay $125 for my AMEX business card, it pays a HEFTY return on purchases. The year before last when I was paying my roofing bill with it, I had a couple thousand in cash to use at Amazon.

> Christmas is only 7 months away.

Really?? You just had to bring that up, right? Yikes!

I am amazed at how much time has passed this year. Worse, with my broken leg I am surprised how much income I have missed.

Robert

On Sat, 13 May 2017 17:21:30 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/13/2017 4:31 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 05/13/2017 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program
>>> isn't
>>> for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. ...
>>
>> Not reading into it at all, but am curious why the CC company is doing
>> the searching; particularly if they "resent him using" the rebate
>> program. That's just more $$ out of their pocket they didn't need to
>> lose...
>>
>> As noted in a further response, they make their fee on every purchase
>> and most of the ilk of Leon make pretty sizable use of them so that adds
>> up (not to 20% APR, no, but 3% or so I think is pretty typical; AmEx
>> raised to now almost 5% was what the building supply manager here told
>> me was why dropped them.
>
>
>Let's hear it for the "deadbeats" I am proud to be one. I pay annual
>fees on just two credit cards (AMEX and American Airlines Platinum tied
>in to my FF account). AMEX is now an affinity card with Starwood Hotels
>(and now Marriott) and time share resorts. Between those two cards I
>pay off in full ~ $6000/mo. On AMEX I have enough points in Starwood to
>spend ~ 60 nights free, plus I get upgrades when available. On the AA
>card between purchases and flights I currently have ~ 190K miles or,
>roughly, 7 round trip tickets. We fly enough that the free checked
>baggage alone puts me $100 ahead of the game at the end of the year.
>The priority boarding is also a nice perk.The rest is gravy.
>
>Should they decide this "deadbeat" is no longer worthy of their card,
>that's okay. With a FICO hovering around 830, I'm sure I can find
>somebody who'll grant me short term credit. ;)
>
>That 2½% to 5% merchant fee they're collecting is not bad considering
>it's essentially no risk to them. Those folks, in this economy, who are
>carrying $16K or more in credit card debt represent a significant risk
>to the card issuer.

Exactly. If they get one or two percent from me, per month, with
essentially zero risk, they should be pretty damn happy.

I just don't understand why anyone, such as yourself, with excellent
credit, would pay for a credit card. There are *so* many good, free,
ones around. I'm sure you have your reasons but I don't get it.

On Fri, 12 May 2017 11:32:32 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 05/12/2017 10:17 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/12/2017 9:02 AM, dpb wrote:
>...
>
>>> If you don't mind my asking, which is this......
>...
>
>> Citi Bank "Double Cash", this particular one is a Master Card.
>
>Thx, thunk mighta' been...one had considered.

Yes, thanks. I've been considering that one as well. I don't know
which one I'd dump. I, too, have two I use and pay off each month.
>
>As you, use CCs extensively but never run a balance. ? was want to dump
>the AmEx as the merchant fees are so onerous the acceptance-level by
>many places here locally has dropped precipitously including some where
>used it frequently prior...

I haven't had my Amex refused for several years. Though I'm really
happy with the Amex, it's probably the one I'd ditch. My Sam's MC
pays 5% for gas, so it's a keeper.

dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 05/12/2017 2:50 PM, Lap Joint wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. ...
>>
>> according to JET.COM customer service (855)538-4323 USD$596 is the lowest price
>> they ever had for the pioneer avic-6200nex
> ...
>
> A closeout on discontinued model, maybe?
>
> What I don't really understand is why the CC company would be doing this
> at all...I can see the marketing ploy to get a new card customer of
> "we'll match whatever you can find".
>
> But once they've got that card business don't see how it makes any sense
> at all to make; that seems as though does nothing but take $$$ off the
> bottom line which business model doesn't really match with my idea of CC
> companies. :)
>
> Leon -- any chance you've got plug in activated that's doing this and it
> just _looks like_ it's coming from Citi or some such scenario???

Not sure I follow. Citi confirms with an email that they are watching an
item I set up to watch. Then I get an email from citi that it is approved
and finally an email confirming the credit. I check my cc balance this
morning and the credit was there.

This happened the same way on a small TV I purchased a couple of years ago,
they found the cheaper price.


>
> What's that late-night TV ad place I see that's supposed to some kind of
> bidding site? If found the particular item at that kind of site could
> see a really low price, comparatively.
>
> --
>

Mine was a last years model when I bought. Mine is a 6200, the later model
is a 6201.

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the
> kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program
> isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a
> stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry
> for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him.
> No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer
> fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with
> the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without
> receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>

What about the merchant fees? Every time he uses his card, they get a
small piece of the pie. It seems the average rate is 3%.

One more thought: Leon's happy, he's talking about his card. Others are
saying "I'd like to get me some of that action." There's no guarantee
they'll be "deadbeat" customers as well. Happy Leon=more sales. (I
won't even mention the F-word.)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 5/13/2017 4:31 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/13/2017 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program
>> isn't
>> for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. ...
>
> Not reading into it at all, but am curious why the CC company is doing
> the searching; particularly if they "resent him using" the rebate
> program. That's just more $$ out of their pocket they didn't need to
> lose...
>
> As noted in a further response, they make their fee on every purchase
> and most of the ilk of Leon make pretty sizable use of them so that adds
> up (not to 20% APR, no, but 3% or so I think is pretty typical; AmEx
> raised to now almost 5% was what the building supply manager here told
> me was why dropped them.


Let's hear it for the "deadbeats" I am proud to be one. I pay annual
fees on just two credit cards (AMEX and American Airlines Platinum tied
in to my FF account). AMEX is now an affinity card with Starwood Hotels
(and now Marriott) and time share resorts. Between those two cards I
pay off in full ~ $6000/mo. On AMEX I have enough points in Starwood to
spend ~ 60 nights free, plus I get upgrades when available. On the AA
card between purchases and flights I currently have ~ 190K miles or,
roughly, 7 round trip tickets. We fly enough that the free checked
baggage alone puts me $100 ahead of the game at the end of the year.
The priority boarding is also a nice perk.The rest is gravy.

Should they decide this "deadbeat" is no longer worthy of their card,
that's okay. With a FICO hovering around 830, I'm sure I can find
somebody who'll grant me short term credit. ;)

That 2½% to 5% merchant fee they're collecting is not bad considering
it's essentially no risk to them. Those folks, in this economy, who are
carrying $16K or more in credit card debt represent a significant risk
to the card issuer.

On 5/13/2017 12:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:39:48 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>>
>>> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>>
>>> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>>
>>> Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>>
>>> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.
>>>
>>> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!
>>>
>>
>> On top of all that he owns his house ::gasp::
>
> I have three more payments. ;-)
>

I am on my negative 246th payment. ;~) Enjoy the freedom.

On Sat, 13 May 2017 21:49:07 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/13/17 12:02 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:23:42 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/13/17 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>>>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match
>>>> program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I
>>>> did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
>>>> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
>>>> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the
>>>> industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money
>>>> from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no
>>>> transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the
>>>> agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money
>>>> out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>>>
>>>> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC
>>>> debt for the average household is over $16K! According to
>>>> Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little
>>>> over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is
>>>> 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to
>>>> check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the
>>>> calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum
>>>> payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their
>>>> method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is
>>>> about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a
>>>> Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different
>>>> crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to
>>>> them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>>>
>>>> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in
>>>> annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash
>>>> advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder
>>>> how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all
>>>> costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet
>>>> it is around $350 a month.
>>>>
>>>> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and
>>>> sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many
>>>> chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat,
>>>> every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather
>>>> pillow!
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>> We're pretty much in the same boat. My wife absolutely despises debt
>>> and we went through a lot of work and stress to get to the point where
>>> we have no accumulating CC debt or much of any other besides the mortgage.
>>>
>>> Even when we buy a (always used) vehicle, we put as big a down payment
>>> on it as we can and she puts every extra cent towards it until it's paid
>>> off early.
>>>
>>> We have stellar credit scores so we always get the lowest loan/credit
>>> rates and we have CC companies always sending us great offers with
>>> minuscule interest rates and free balance transfers, etc, etc. And I
>>> don't get it, because we are total "deadbeats."
>>
>> The "deadbeat" thing is way overrated. They're still making a ton of
>> money off you, and with practically zero risk. That's a pretty good
>> business to be in and others will compete to get your business.
>>
>>> I use one CC for business expenses and I let the CC company do all my
>>> bookkeeping for me, for free! They are paying me to do my record
>>> keeping for me and that's fine by me.
>>>
>>> Unlike Obamacare, this is one area of expenses where everyone else is
>>> paying for my free stuff instead of the other way around. :-)
>>
>> No, you're paying though would be paying even if you didn't use the CC
>> (because the CC cost is baked into the price). That doesn't change
>> the decision, however.
>>
>
>If you're talking about the 3% merchant fee, that's a net zero sum,
>however, because everyone pays that through the retailers soaking it
>into their prices. Even cash buyers pay it so it's a moot point in this
>discussion.

True, which is why I said "though would be paying even if you didn't
use the CC".

>I really doubt there'd be many credit cards companies in business if
>everyone paid their balance in full every month and all they made was 3%
>fees.

Banks do pretty well with the merchant's fees on debit cards. Hell,
3% amounts to a 43% return. 1% is still 14%. Not too shabby when
they pay less than 1% on savings.

On 5/14/2017 4:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:

>
> My house is paid off and has been for years. My old beater truck was paid off 10 years ago. I carry very little personal credit and actually only have one personal credit card. When I checked my credit scores a couple of years ago, they were disappointingly low. I called the clearing house (TransUnion of Equifax) and they told me that it wasn't that I had bad credit, it was that I didn't have ANY credit history of recent vintage. My training in credit services was ringing in my ears. "The prospective client must be able to demonstrate the ability to repay along with a current and active history of timely repayment".

My wife has a credit card in her name and gets offers for more. She has
worked about 6 months in the past 51 years and has a credit score of 830.

On 5/13/2017 11:54 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the
>> kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program
>> isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a
>> stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
>> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
>> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry
>> for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him.
>> No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer
>> fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with
>> the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without
>> receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>
>
> What about the merchant fees? Every time he uses his card, they get a
> small piece of the pie. It seems the average rate is 3%.
>
> One more thought: Leon's happy, he's talking about his card. Others are
> saying "I'd like to get me some of that action." There's no guarantee
> they'll be "deadbeat" customers as well. Happy Leon=more sales. (I
> won't even mention the F-word.)
>
> Puckdropper
>

That is the way I see it. You should see how much I received in credits
from the GM credit card program when I bought a truck and a vehicle for
my son, way back in 1997 and 2005. That card offered 5% credit on every
purchase towards the purchase of a GM vehicle. $5K+

On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:23:42 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/13/17 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match
>> program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I
>> did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
>> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
>> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the
>> industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money
>> from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no
>> transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the
>> agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money
>> out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>
>> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC
>> debt for the average household is over $16K! According to
>> Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little
>> over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is
>> 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to
>> check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>
>> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the
>> calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum
>> payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their
>> method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is
>> about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a
>> Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different
>> crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to
>> them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>
>> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in
>> annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash
>> advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder
>> how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all
>> costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet
>> it is around $350 a month.
>>
>> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and
>> sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many
>> chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>
>> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat,
>> every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather
>> pillow!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
>We're pretty much in the same boat. My wife absolutely despises debt
>and we went through a lot of work and stress to get to the point where
>we have no accumulating CC debt or much of any other besides the mortgage.
>
>Even when we buy a (always used) vehicle, we put as big a down payment
>on it as we can and she puts every extra cent towards it until it's paid
>off early.
>
>We have stellar credit scores so we always get the lowest loan/credit
>rates and we have CC companies always sending us great offers with
>minuscule interest rates and free balance transfers, etc, etc. And I
>don't get it, because we are total "deadbeats."

The "deadbeat" thing is way overrated. They're still making a ton of
money off you, and with practically zero risk. That's a pretty good
business to be in and others will compete to get your business.

>I use one CC for business expenses and I let the CC company do all my
>bookkeeping for me, for free! They are paying me to do my record
>keeping for me and that's fine by me.
>
>Unlike Obamacare, this is one area of expenses where everyone else is
>paying for my free stuff instead of the other way around. :-)

No, you're paying though would be paying even if you didn't use the CC
(because the CC cost is baked into the price). That doesn't change
the decision, however.

On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:39:48 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 May 2017 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>
>>According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>
>>http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>
>>Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>
>>Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.
>>
>>So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>
>>On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!
>>
>
>On top of all that he owns his house ::gasp::

I have three more payments. ;-)

By industry standards, I am a deadbeat, too. There are months when I pay o=
ff my business credit accounts and it can reach nearly $10K. Any given mon=
th. It is about $7500 or so, but it is due every month. Rain days? What =
are those? Client doesn't pay on time? Not my creditors fault, you can ask =
them. No excuses, no leeway. If I miss or I am late, I might get a pass, =
but most likely will be terminated as a credit client. Commercial credit i=
s demanding; a late fee for an "oops" isn't part of the equation. So I don=
't miss, and I am not late.

My house is paid off and has been for years. My old beater truck was paid =
off 10 years ago. I carry very little personal credit and actually only ha=
ve one personal credit card. When I checked my credit scores a couple of y=
ears ago, they were disappointingly low. I called the clearing house (Tran=
sUnion of Equifax) and they told me that it wasn't that I had bad credit, i=
t was that I didn't have ANY credit history of recent vintage. My training=
in credit services was ringing in my ears. "The prospective client must be=
able to demonstrate the ability to repay along with a current and active h=
istory of timely repayment".

I put my eye surgery on my card ($9K) and paid it out using various schemes=
over about 2 years. My FICO score went up about 35 points, and I started =
getting more credit card offers. Hurray! Robert needs us again! Let's load=
him up!

It took a long time to get through my noggin that the credit card industry =
and other short term lenders don't care how much debt you have. (NOT talkin=
g the mortgage industry.) They care about your ability to repay. They don'=
t care that you are a thrifty saver. Case in point, when you applied for a=
credit card, did they verify and of your cash on hand or CDs, etc.? Nope, =
they run a credit report, take your word on your income, and make a decisio=
n. You can be overwhelmed with debt, and have NO money in the bank and sti=
ll get more credit cards.

Credit card companies have no use for thrifty people, highly disciplined sp=
enders, or folks that refuse to be sodomized by them. 10 years in lending =
led me to despise the short term credit industry.

To make the point that the credit card issuers, servicers, and promoters ar=
e souless vampires that will drink every drop of your blood, watch this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

It is a few years old, but NOTHING has changed, except to get worse. They =
even have the guy that developed the scheme that has a person pay so little=
on their credit cards that they can never pay it off. That is modified no=
w and is illegal, but your minimum payment can still be less than the debt =
service fee, making that payment an interest only payment.

The documentary shows how scheming, cunning, and evil the credit card compa=
nies are, and again, they are worse now than they were when that documentar=
y was made. The documentary stays up though, as most people don't have any=
idea how credit cards work.

Literally, when I saw that documentary, it gave me shivers. I have encoura=
ged anyone I can to take a look at it.

Robert

On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
>
> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
> $665. Sweet.
>
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
>
> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
> Sweeeter.
>
> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>
> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
Well you deserve a BIG YOU SUCK!

--
Jeff

On 5/15/2017 1:45 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/15/2017 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> Yeah well you know, LOL. There is also the 2% cash back.
>
> While 2% is 2%, unless do a sizable flowthru it really doesn't add up to
> that much actual cash. Then again, "a penny saved..."

Six to seven hundred at the end of the year. I save it to help relieve
Christmas.


>
> ...
>
>> No kidding, no separate check for DirecTV, Electricity, Cell Phone, and
>> so on. And I pay the CC with a direct money transfer. I write about 2~3
>> checks per month and have 30~40 charges per month.
>
> We have more than that business accounts monthly that write checks for,
> but all the routine bills are on direct-pay. I guess if were out to
> maximize the cashback have them on the card as well but I'm more than
> reluctant to ever give a CC company access to an account.

I was reluctant too but then realized that when I give them a check for
payment they have my routing and account number. And I always opt for
single one time payments.

>
> If ran the fuel bill that way, then could actually see it! :) As is,
> the distributor discount is a little over that over pump pricing on bulk
> delivery; 1% on the pump island.
>
> Lynda can generally keep the car at about half-price with the Dillons
> credit from the grocery tab, so she does it but only the two of us can't
> eat enough to finance more than the one. :(
> ...
>
>
>> I hate being side tracked. :~)
>
> Doncha' just, though! Now we're well into planting season this year
> already...
>
> --
>
Christmas is only 7 months away.

On 5/13/2017 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>
> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>
> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>
> Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>
> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.
>
> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't even notice him.
>
> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!
>
> Robert
>


LOL

On 5/12/2017 2:50 PM, Lap Joint wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/12/2017 9:15 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
>>>> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
>>>> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
>>>> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
>>>> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
>>>>
>>>> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
>>>> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
>>>> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
>>>> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
>>>> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
>>>> $665. Sweet.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
>>>>
>>>> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
>>>> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
>>>> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
>>>> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
>>>> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
>>>> Sweeeter.
>>>>
>>>> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
>>>> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
>>>> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
>>>> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>>>>
>>>> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
>>>> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
>>>> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
>>>
>>> Did they happen to mention where they price matched a $900 unit for $120?
>>
>> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. I had already gotten a
>> credit for the $62 for the price difference between Best Buys price and
>> the Amazon Price.
>
> according to JET.COM customer service (855)538-4323 USD$596 is the lowest price
> they ever had for the pioneer avic-6200nex
> https://jet.com/search?term=AVIC-6200NEX


Well, CitiCards found the price, I got a $485 credit, I'm not going to
argue with that.




> best buy has not carried that model number for over a year, the sales rep looked it up.

Regardless, I bought that model on March 5, 2017. They did have to
order it, 3 days wait.

On 5/15/2017 9:46 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/15/2017 9:07 AM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> We try to buy everything on CC if for nothing else, the protection.
>
> For the occasional purchase that can be valuable, indeed. Just
> groceries, etc., etc., don't seem that risky. :)

Yeah well you know, LOL. There is also the 2% cash back.



>
> In my case it's just the convenience of only the one monthly statement
> for the miscellaneous routine "stuff" almost exclusively altho certainly
> anything over the 'net or thru eBay or the like is worthy.

No kidding, no separate check for DirecTV, Electricity, Cell Phone, and
so on. And I pay the CC with a direct money transfer. I write about
2~3 checks per month and have 30~40 charges per month.



>
> Back more nearly on subject, I had brought the PM 180 planer back but it
> was on three phase and no 3P service on the place so it'd just sat there
> since coming back and I'd gotten by with the little Rockwell/Delta 13.
>
> Broke down last fall and bought a converter and was able by searching to
> buy necessary electrical fittings and all for as much as 75% off what
> could get locally as there just is no local competitive supplier for
> such given the small market like the building supply there's only one
> electrical supply outfit in town. So, for a couple months there I
> bought a bunch of stuff there as figured while ordering I'd just stock
> up on common things...so, anyways, now the planer is in and operational,
> got a larger DC on hand to get up when can get back to the finishing
> structural reinforcement needed on west end of the barn where we were
> when got sidetracked about 7 year ago... :)

I hate being side tracked. :~)

wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind
>of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him,
>and they resent the fact that he uses it. I >did a stint working for a
>bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was
>required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications.
>Seriously, the term in the >industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat"
>because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash
>advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him
> >under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay
>money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".

I guess I'm a "deadbeat" too... and happy about it! LOL

I don't feel bad at all as the CC companies are wracking up pretty hefty
merchant fees from my utilization. As such they are generating an income
stream from me.

On 5/12/2017 5:50 PM, dpb wrote:

>
> What I don't really understand is why the CC company would be doing this
> at all...I can see the marketing ploy to get a new card customer of
> "we'll match whatever you can find".
>
> But once they've got that card business don't see how it makes any sense
> at all to make; that seems as though does nothing but take $$$ off the
> bottom line which business model doesn't really match with my idea of CC
> companies. :)

Competition. If they do it for a period and stop, customers will jump
to another card that gives cash back.

We go to BJ's about once a month and I always used cash or debit card.
Discover offered 5% when used at club stores. I can enjoy the 5% back
on a $300 purchase so I used the card. Amazon Prime gave me 5% of a
$1300 TV too.

It is also an incentive for people that cannot manage money to use a
card to get 2% back and pay 29% interest on the balance.

On 5/14/2017 10:43 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/14/2017 7:58 AM, Leon wrote:
>> dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>
>>> Now figure out a way to phake the matching data! :)
>>>
>> Naaa, I don't want to fraud the CC company.
>
> Would _I_ even think of such a thing?! :)
>
> --
>
>
>
LOL

On 5/14/2017 11:03 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/14/2017 3:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> By industry standards, I am a deadbeat, too. There are months when I
>> pay off my business credit accounts and it can reach nearly $10K. Any
>> given month. It is about $7500 or so, but it is due every month. Rain
>> days? What are those? Client doesn't pay on time? Not my creditors
>> fault, you can ask them. No excuses, no leeway. If I miss or I am late,
>> I might get a pass, but most likely will be terminated as a credit
>> client. Commercial credit is demanding; a late fee for an "oops" isn't
>> part of the equation. So I don't miss, and I am not late.
> ...
>
> While still on the independent consulting gig I used a CC for floating
> instrumentation or other hardware and like purchases for billing clients
> with those vendors that didn't have standing accounts with and couldn't
> foresee were going to be consistent-enough over longhaul to make
> establishing an account worthwhile. But, those were billable accounts
> that knew clients would pay when invoiced so was not issue of cash flow.
>
> I'd never operate the farm inputs that way, however; the operating
> capital for it is on annually renogtiated/extended credit line through
> one or more sources. Far, far cheaper rates and when there's an
> unforeseen glitch you go visit...
>
> When it's 200 gal to fill a tractor tank and consumption may push 18
> gal/hr so it's a daily chore, fuel bills alone monthly can push $10k for
> heavy usage months. Add in other inputs such as seed, fertilizer,
> chemical...
>
> Anyway, it'd seem a float for smaller stuff might be ok, but the
> investment up front for a full-size house job unless you're getting
> progress payments would seem to require a different financing scheme
> entirely so the CC would never come into play other than to routinely
> pay every month's bill when it's due.
>
> We use CC for almost all non-business expenses; together probably
> average $2K/mo, but haven't paid an interest charge in 20 yr (except I
> do recall missed a pay date on AmEx one time while were out of town but
> they rescinded the late fee altho I think we did pay a couple bucks of
> interest).
>
> --
>
> --
>
We try to buy everything on CC if for nothing else, the protection.

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 9:05:00 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/14/2017 4:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> >=20
> > My house is paid off and has been for years. My old beater truck was p=
aid off 10 years ago. I carry very little personal credit and actually onl=
y have one personal credit card. When I checked my credit scores a couple =
of years ago, they were disappointingly low. I called the clearing house (=
TransUnion of Equifax) and they told me that it wasn't that I had bad credi=
t, it was that I didn't have ANY credit history of recent vintage. My trai=
ning in credit services was ringing in my ears. "The prospective client mus=
t be able to demonstrate the ability to repay along with a current and acti=
ve history of timely repayment".
>=20
> My wife has a credit card in her name and gets offers for more. She has=
=20
> worked about 6 months in the past 51 years and has a credit score of 830.

I believe it. Although is improved, there are a lot of inconsistencies in r=
eporting. =20

Also, you are married, no? If so, you have a combined credit score based o=
n each other's activities whether their was mutual participation or not. T=
he law looks at a married couple as one entity; so a spouse that purchases =
on credit will create a loan or charge that creates a mutual liability situ=
ation.

So whether either of you have worked in he last few years or not, if you ha=
ve demonstrated the ability to repay small loans (credit cards, vehicles, a=
boat, more credit cards, a yard shed, new siding on the house, a roof, stu=
dent loans and a host of others) no doubt your MUTUAL credit scores will be=
high as your wife is tagged to your ability to repay (since you were obvio=
usly the primary earner).

Think about it this way; if you divorce, all debt (let's not worry about ra=
tios or clever attorneys) and assets are to be equally divided. This is bec=
ause all credit/assets for a married couple is mutual; likewise, if you wif=
e entered into debt without your knowledge and failed to repay (that sports=
car she always wanted!) it would ruin not only hers but your credit as wel=
l.

But if all payments are made, and all is on time, then both share the benef=
its. Should that event occur though, if you were the primary (worse, only)=
wager earner for the married entity, she would be completely sunk because =
she is single (a new, legal entity)and cannot demonstrate the ability to re=
pay.

Robert

On Fri, 12 May 2017 21:29:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/12/2017 5:50 PM, dpb wrote:
>
>>
>> What I don't really understand is why the CC company would be doing this
>> at all...I can see the marketing ploy to get a new card customer of
>> "we'll match whatever you can find".
>>
>> But once they've got that card business don't see how it makes any sense
>> at all to make; that seems as though does nothing but take $$$ off the
>> bottom line which business model doesn't really match with my idea of CC
>> companies. :)
>
>Competition. If they do it for a period and stop, customers will jump
>to another card that gives cash back.

Those with excellent credit, sure. These cards are only available to
those who have really good credit. Club cards may have a little more
leeway. They're pretty stingy with credit lines for the first year,
anyway, which I thought was pretty dumb because they are picky with
the customers for these cards.
>
>We go to BJ's about once a month and I always used cash or debit card.
>Discover offered 5% when used at club stores. I can enjoy the 5% back
>on a $300 purchase so I used the card. Amazon Prime gave me 5% of a
>$1300 TV too.

A decade ago, or so, I was at a BP station and noticed their 5% cash
back on gasoline and for three months, 5% on everything else, too. I
got the card but they only gave me a $5000 credit limit (rats!). We
bought a couple of rooms of Amish furniture. I made a deal with the
factory to pay them $5000 on order, $5000 a month later, and another
$5000 on delivery. That card paid for half my Unisaur. ;-)
>
>It is also an incentive for people that cannot manage money to use a
>card to get 2% back and pay 29% interest on the balance.

..and make it up in volume.

You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind=
of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him=
, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a ba=
nk working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required=
to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Serious=
ly, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the m=
ake NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance intere=
st, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agree=
ment with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without re=
ceiving anything from him, "deadbeat".

According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for=
the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average=
low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash =
back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is =
also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to=
the consumer.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-paymen=
t.aspx

Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator sh=
ows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the =
principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest =
on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending =
on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points syste=
m, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (acco=
rding to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.=20

Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual=
fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees fr=
om balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies ma=
ke per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anythin=
g else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.

So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leo=
n a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't=
even notice him.

On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every oth=
er chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!

Robert

On 5/14/2017 1:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>
> Also, you are married, no? If so, you have a combined credit score based on each other's activities whether their was mutual participation or not. The law looks at a married couple as one entity; so a spouse that purchases on credit will create a loan or charge that creates a mutual liability situation.
>
snip.
>
> But if all payments are made, and all is on time, then both share the benefits. Should that event occur though, if you were the primary (worse, only) wager earner for the married entity, she would be completely sunk because she is single (a new, legal entity)and cannot demonstrate the ability to repay.
>
> Robert
>

Thanks for the clarification. I told her to get her own card though the
other accounts supply 2 cards. In the past, a single woman had a hard
time getting credit. Never know when you may need it.

On Sun, 14 May 2017 01:06:52 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>By industry standards, I am a deadbeat, too. There are months when I pay off my business credit accounts and it can reach nearly $10K. Any given month. It is about $7500 or so, but it is due every month. Rain days? What are those? Client doesn't pay on time? Not my creditors fault, you can ask them. No excuses, no leeway. If I miss or I am late, I might get a pass, but most likely will be terminated as a credit client. Commercial credit is demanding; a late fee for an "oops" isn't part of the equation. So I don't miss, and I am not late.
>
>My house is paid off and has been for years. My old beater truck was paid off 10 years ago. I carry very little personal credit and actually only have one personal credit card. When I checked my credit scores a couple of years ago, they were disappointingly low. I called the clearing house (TransUnion of Equifax) and they told me that it wasn't that I had bad credit, it was that I didn't have ANY credit history of recent vintage. My training in credit services was ringing in my ears. "The prospective client must be able to demonstrate the ability to repay along with a current and active history of timely repayment".

It makes sense, no? The credit score is intended to not only show
your ability to pay but your willingness (track record). If you
didn't borrow anything, you would have a zero credit score . You'd
cease to exist. ;-)

Dave Ramsey talks about this all the time (he strongly advocates it,
in fact).

>I put my eye surgery on my card ($9K) and paid it out using various schemes over about 2 years. My FICO score went up about 35 points, and I started getting more credit card offers. Hurray! Robert needs us again! Let's load him up!

;-)

For those who want a high score, a bunch of cards with high
availability and low usage, paid off each month will do wonders.
That's why I carry a high credit limit. I never use it but I may have
a couple of grand on a card in a given month (that will be paid that
month) but I don't want it to show as if I'm carrying 30% or 40% on
the card. I'd rather it be 10-20%.

>It took a long time to get through my noggin that the credit card industry and other short term lenders don't care how much debt you have. (NOT talking the mortgage industry.) They care about your ability to repay. They don't care that you are a thrifty saver. Case in point, when you applied for a credit card, did they verify and of your cash on hand or CDs, etc.? Nope, they run a credit report, take your word on your income, and make a decision. You can be overwhelmed with debt, and have NO money in the bank and still get more credit cards.

They do care how much, sure, but they care most about how you're
paying (not necessarily off).

>Credit card companies have no use for thrifty people, highly disciplined spenders, or folks that refuse to be sodomized by them. 10 years in lending led me to despise the short term credit industry.

Sure they do. If what you say were true, none of us "deadbeats" would
have a card, particularly one that refunds part of the purchase price.

>To make the point that the credit card issuers, servicers, and promoters are souless vampires that will drink every drop of your blood, watch this:

Some, not all. Perhaps most, even. Blanket statements are *always*
wrong. ;-)

>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/
>
>It is a few years old, but NOTHING has changed, except to get worse. They even have the guy that developed the scheme that has a person pay so little on their credit cards that they can never pay it off. That is modified now and is illegal, but your minimum payment can still be less than the debt service fee, making that payment an interest only payment.

Now that *has* changed. The feds have increased the minimum payments,
much to the chagrin of the people drowning in debt. You just can't
please everyone.

>The documentary shows how scheming, cunning, and evil the credit card companies are, and again, they are worse now than they were when that documentary was made. The documentary stays up though, as most people don't have any idea how credit cards work.

They're not worse. There are a lot of relatively new rules in place.
Most are disliked by both sides but do make sense.

>Literally, when I saw that documentary, it gave me shivers. I have encouraged anyone I can to take a look at it.

On 5/12/2017 9:02 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/12/2017 8:37 AM, Leon wrote:
>> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
>> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
>> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
>> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
>> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
> ...
>
>> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
>> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
>> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
>> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>>
>> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
>> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail is
>> $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
>
> The $$$ the CC issuers are raking in must be truly staggering given what
> they're doing on stuff like this. Those that are actually paying their
> minimums every month @ 18% or whatever effective APR is are really
> toting a load for those who just use them for cash flow...

Absolutely true.

We use two credit cards monthly and at least once a month both have a
Zero balance. Discover is one as it pays 5% on quarterly purchases of
certain items, 1% on all others.

>
> If you don't mind my asking, which is this...I've been wanting to
> replace one have had but haven't gotten the round tuit required...a
> satisfied customer would be a good recommendation... :)
>
> --
>

Citi Bank "Double Cash", this particular one is a Master Card.

On 5/12/2017 9:15 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
>> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
>> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
>> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
>> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
>> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
>>
>> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
>> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
>> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
>> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
>> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
>> $665. Sweet.
>>
>> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
>>
>> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
>> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
>> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
>> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
>> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
>> Sweeeter.
>>
>> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
>> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
>> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
>> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>>
>> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
>> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
>> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
>
> Did they happen to mention where they price matched a $900 unit for $120?

Jet.com And actually they were around $182. I had already gotten a
credit for the $62 for the price difference between Best Buys price and
the Amazon Price.


>
> Might be some on here that would be interested, if for no other reason
> than to sell them on Ebay or Amazon at huge profits...
>

On 05/12/2017 8:37 AM, Leon wrote:
> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
...

> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>
> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail is
> $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !

The $$$ the CC issuers are raking in must be truly staggering given what
they're doing on stuff like this. Those that are actually paying their
minimums every month @ 18% or whatever effective APR is are really
toting a load for those who just use them for cash flow...

If you don't mind my asking, which is this...I've been wanting to
replace one have had but haven't gotten the round tuit required...a
satisfied customer would be a good recommendation... :)

--

On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
>
> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
> $665. Sweet.
>
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
>
> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
> Sweeeter.
>
> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
>
> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !

Did they happen to mention where they price matched a $900 unit for $120?

Might be some on here that would be interested, if for no other reason
than to sell them on Ebay or Amazon at huge profits...

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 05/12/2017 10:17 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 9:02 AM, dpb wrote:
...

>> If you don't mind my asking, which is this......
...

> Citi Bank "Double Cash", this particular one is a Master Card.

Thx, thunk mighta' been...one had considered.

As you, use CCs extensively but never run a balance. ? was want to dump
the AmEx as the merchant fees are so onerous the acceptance-level by
many places here locally has dropped precipitously including some where
used it frequently prior...

--

In article <[email protected]>
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> On 5/12/2017 9:15 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 5/12/2017 9:37 AM, Leon wrote:
> >> So a few months ago we were discussing credit cards and I mentioned that
> >> my credit card paid me 2% cash back on every thing I purchase.
> >> I also commented about an included feature that offered price protection
> >> for 60 days. You basically send in a copy of an ad of a cheaper price
> >> and they credit your account for the same difference in 60 days.
> >>
> >> In early March I bought an in dash Pioneer GPS radio from and had it
> >> installed by Best Buy. I also bought a back up camera that integrates
> >> with the unit. Best buy sells the unit for less than the suggested $900
> >> retail price, IIRC about $724. I brought in a screen image of an Amazon
> >> price for the same unit and was able to purchase the unit for about
> >> $665. Sweet.
> >>
> >> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-6200NEX
> >>
> >> There were several lower prices on Amazon but Best Buy would not price
> >> match because others on Amazon were offing the unit, these were not
> >> fulfilled and shipped by Amazon. Any way I sent a screen image, of the
> >> lower Amazon prices, to my credit card company and they price matched.
> >> Within a week I had a $62 credit for the lower price that I found.
> >> Sweeeter.
> >>
> >> On the last day of the 60 day limit, to finding a lower price, my credit
> >> card company sent me an e-mail indicating that "they" found an even
> >> cheaper price for for the unit I bought. I had totally forgotten about
> >> this purchase and the possibility of getting a further credit.
> >>
> >> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
> >> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
> >> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
> >
> > Did they happen to mention where they price matched a $900 unit for $120?
>
> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. I had already gotten a
> credit for the $62 for the price difference between Best Buys price and
> the Amazon Price.

according to JET.COM customer service (855)538-4323 USD$596 is the lowest price
they ever had for the pioneer avic-6200nex
https://jet.com/search?term=AVIC-6200NEX
best buy has not carried that model number for over a year, the sales rep looked it up.
<http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?st=AVIC-6200NEX&_dyncharset=UTF-8&id=pcat17071&type=page&sc=Global>
inquiring minds want to know how you trick Citi MasterCard out of all that quid? rotflol

On 05/12/2017 2:50 PM, Lap Joint wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
...

>> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. ...
>
> according to JET.COM customer service (855)538-4323 USD$596 is the lowest price
> they ever had for the pioneer avic-6200nex
...

A closeout on discontinued model, maybe?

What I don't really understand is why the CC company would be doing this
at all...I can see the marketing ploy to get a new card customer of
"we'll match whatever you can find".

But once they've got that card business don't see how it makes any sense
at all to make; that seems as though does nothing but take $$$ off the
bottom line which business model doesn't really match with my idea of CC
companies. :)

Leon -- any chance you've got plug in activated that's doing this and it
just _looks like_ it's coming from Citi or some such scenario???

What's that late-night TV ad place I see that's supposed to some kind of
bidding site? If found the particular item at that kind of site could
see a really low price, comparatively.

--

On 05/12/2017 7:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...

> I haven't had my Amex refused for several years. ...

Huh. There are now more places in town here that refuse it now than
accept it in the hardware/building supply arenas which is about all I
purchase locally on CC as have open accounts at essentially every where
else. Of course, this is a small market where there's only one building
supply and a couple hardware stores, so it doesn't take many to make it
useless.

I suppose what I should do is just open accounts at both instead...

--

On 05/12/2017 8:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...

> Competition. If they do it for a period and stop, customers will jump to
> another card that gives cash back.
...

That's not what was speaking of; "sure" on that.

--

On 5/12/2017 11:20 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> WOW! This morning the credit showed up I got an additional $485 credit,
>>> effectively making my cost for this unit about $120. Suggested retail
>>> is $900. V E R Y S W E E T ! ! ! !
>>
>> Did they happen to mention where they price matched a $900 unit for $120?
>
> Jet.com And actually they were around $182. I had already gotten a
> credit for the $62 for the price difference between Best Buys price and
> the Amazon Price.

When I go there the price ranges from $596.90 to $925.43, depending on
what all you get with it. I think they may have screwed up, or I'm
missing something.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 5/13/17 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match
> program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I
> did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the
> industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money
> from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no
> transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the
> agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money
> out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>
> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC
> debt for the average household is over $16K! According to
> Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little
> over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is
> 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to
> check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>
> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>
>
>
Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the
> calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum
> payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their
> method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is
> about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a
> Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different
> crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to
> them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>
> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in
> annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash
> advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder
> how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all
> costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet
> it is around $350 a month.
>
> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and
> sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many
> chickens that they don't even notice him.
>
> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat,
> every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather
> pillow!
>
> Robert
>

We're pretty much in the same boat. My wife absolutely despises debt
and we went through a lot of work and stress to get to the point where
we have no accumulating CC debt or much of any other besides the mortgage.

Even when we buy a (always used) vehicle, we put as big a down payment
on it as we can and she puts every extra cent towards it until it's paid
off early.

We have stellar credit scores so we always get the lowest loan/credit
rates and we have CC companies always sending us great offers with
minuscule interest rates and free balance transfers, etc, etc. And I
don't get it, because we are total "deadbeats."

I use one CC for business expenses and I let the CC company do all my
bookkeeping for me, for free! They are paying me to do my record
keeping for me and that's fine by me.

Unlike Obamacare, this is one area of expenses where everyone else is
paying for my free stuff instead of the other way around. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 05/13/2017 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't
> for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. ...

Not reading into it at all, but am curious why the CC company is doing
the searching; particularly if they "resent him using" the rebate
program. That's just more $$ out of their pocket they didn't need to
lose...

As noted in a further response, they make their fee on every purchase
and most of the ilk of Leon make pretty sizable use of them so that adds
up (not to 20% APR, no, but 3% or so I think is pretty typical; AmEx
raised to now almost 5% was what the building supply manager here told
me was why dropped them.

--

On 5/13/17 12:02 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2017 11:23:42 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/13/17 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match
>>> program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I
>>> did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential
>>> construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on
>>> credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the
>>> industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money
>>> from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no
>>> transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the
>>> agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money
>>> out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>>>
>>> According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC
>>> debt for the average household is over $16K! According to
>>> Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little
>>> over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is
>>> 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to
>>> check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>>>
>>> http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the
>>> calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum
>>> payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their
>>> method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is
>>> about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a
>>> Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different
>>> crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to
>>> them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>>>
>>> Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in
>>> annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash
>>> advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder
>>> how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all
>>> costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet
>>> it is around $350 a month.
>>>
>>> So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and
>>> sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many
>>> chickens that they don't even notice him.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat,
>>> every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather
>>> pillow!
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> We're pretty much in the same boat. My wife absolutely despises debt
>> and we went through a lot of work and stress to get to the point where
>> we have no accumulating CC debt or much of any other besides the mortgage.
>>
>> Even when we buy a (always used) vehicle, we put as big a down payment
>> on it as we can and she puts every extra cent towards it until it's paid
>> off early.
>>
>> We have stellar credit scores so we always get the lowest loan/credit
>> rates and we have CC companies always sending us great offers with
>> minuscule interest rates and free balance transfers, etc, etc. And I
>> don't get it, because we are total "deadbeats."
>
> The "deadbeat" thing is way overrated. They're still making a ton of
> money off you, and with practically zero risk. That's a pretty good
> business to be in and others will compete to get your business.
>
>> I use one CC for business expenses and I let the CC company do all my
>> bookkeeping for me, for free! They are paying me to do my record
>> keeping for me and that's fine by me.
>>
>> Unlike Obamacare, this is one area of expenses where everyone else is
>> paying for my free stuff instead of the other way around. :-)
>
> No, you're paying though would be paying even if you didn't use the CC
> (because the CC cost is baked into the price). That doesn't change
> the decision, however.
>

If you're talking about the 3% merchant fee, that's a net zero sum,
however, because everyone pays that through the retailers soaking it
into their prices. Even cash buyers pay it so it's a moot point in this
discussion.

I really doubt there'd be many credit cards companies in business if
everyone paid their balance in full every month and all they made was 3%
fees.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/13/17 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/13/2017 11:54 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon
>>> is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match
>>> program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it.
>>> I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of
>>> residential construction loans so I was required to take all
>>> kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously,
>>> the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because
>>> the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash
>>> advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to
>>> pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence,
>>> since theypay money out without receiving anything from him,
>>> "deadbeat".
>>>
>>
>> What about the merchant fees? Every time he uses his card, they
>> get a small piece of the pie. It seems the average rate is 3%.
>>
>> One more thought: Leon's happy, he's talking about his card.
>> Others are saying "I'd like to get me some of that action."
>> There's no guarantee they'll be "deadbeat" customers as well.
>> Happy Leon=more sales. (I won't even mention the F-word.)
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> That is the way I see it. You should see how much I received in
> credits from the GM credit card program when I bought a truck and a
> vehicle for my son, way back in 1997 and 2005. That card offered 5%
> credit on every purchase towards the purchase of a GM vehicle.
> $5K+

My friend did that with a Ford card in the early 90s and ended up
getting about $8k off a new car (after all bargaining and other
discounts). Ford soon after added a cap to the discount.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 05/13/2017 8:31 PM, Leon wrote:
...

> Ironically when I visit the CC company and review my spending for the
> month the CC company actually marks certain purchases as possibly being
> eligible for a price match. With that marker there is a link to add the
> item to a list of items to be watched. You can either hunt for them and
> send in the documentation of let them do the looking. That is what
> happened on this GPS/Radio on the second credit.


Yeah, it's all a bunch o' 'bots in the background...that part I grok.

I don't have accounts online so wasn't thinking of that interaction for
the listing check box. Somebody will eventually wake up to the fact
that once they've paid a match on a given item they've fulfilled their
obligation and will close that loophole in the code... :)

Now figure out a way to phake the matching data! :)

--

On 05/14/2017 7:58 AM, Leon wrote:
> dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
...

>> Now figure out a way to phake the matching data! :)
>>
> Naaa, I don't want to fraud the CC company.

Would _I_ even think of such a thing?! :)

--

On 05/14/2017 3:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> By industry standards, I am a deadbeat, too. There are months when I
> pay off my business credit accounts and it can reach nearly $10K. Any
> given month. It is about $7500 or so, but it is due every month. Rain
> days? What are those? Client doesn't pay on time? Not my creditors
> fault, you can ask them. No excuses, no leeway. If I miss or I am late,
> I might get a pass, but most likely will be terminated as a credit
> client. Commercial credit is demanding; a late fee for an "oops" isn't
> part of the equation. So I don't miss, and I am not late.
...

While still on the independent consulting gig I used a CC for floating
instrumentation or other hardware and like purchases for billing clients
with those vendors that didn't have standing accounts with and couldn't
foresee were going to be consistent-enough over longhaul to make
establishing an account worthwhile. But, those were billable accounts
that knew clients would pay when invoiced so was not issue of cash flow.

I'd never operate the farm inputs that way, however; the operating
capital for it is on annually renogtiated/extended credit line through
one or more sources. Far, far cheaper rates and when there's an
unforeseen glitch you go visit...

When it's 200 gal to fill a tractor tank and consumption may push 18
gal/hr so it's a daily chore, fuel bills alone monthly can push $10k for
heavy usage months. Add in other inputs such as seed, fertilizer,
chemical...

Anyway, it'd seem a float for smaller stuff might be ok, but the
investment up front for a full-size house job unless you're getting
progress payments would seem to require a different financing scheme
entirely so the CC would never come into play other than to routinely
pay every month's bill when it's due.

We use CC for almost all non-business expenses; together probably
average $2K/mo, but haven't paid an interest charge in 20 yr (except I
do recall missed a pay date on AmEx one time while were out of town but
they rescinded the late fee altho I think we did pay a couple bucks of
interest).

--

--

On 05/15/2017 9:07 AM, Leon wrote:
...

> We try to buy everything on CC if for nothing else, the protection.

For the occasional purchase that can be valuable, indeed. Just
groceries, etc., etc., don't seem that risky. :)

In my case it's just the convenience of only the one monthly statement
for the miscellaneous routine "stuff" almost exclusively altho certainly
anything over the 'net or thru eBay or the like is worthy.

Back more nearly on subject, I had brought the PM 180 planer back but it
was on three phase and no 3P service on the place so it'd just sat there
since coming back and I'd gotten by with the little Rockwell/Delta 13.

Broke down last fall and bought a converter and was able by searching to
buy necessary electrical fittings and all for as much as 75% off what
could get locally as there just is no local competitive supplier for
such given the small market like the building supply there's only one
electrical supply outfit in town. So, for a couple months there I
bought a bunch of stuff there as figured while ordering I'd just stock
up on common things...so, anyways, now the planer is in and operational,
got a larger DC on hand to get up when can get back to the finishing
structural reinforcement needed on west end of the barn where we were
when got sidetracked about 7 year ago... :)

--

On 05/15/2017 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
...

> Yeah well you know, LOL. There is also the 2% cash back.

While 2% is 2%, unless do a sizable flowthru it really doesn't add up to
that much actual cash. Then again, "a penny saved..."

...

> No kidding, no separate check for DirecTV, Electricity, Cell Phone, and
> so on. And I pay the CC with a direct money transfer. I write about 2~3
> checks per month and have 30~40 charges per month.

We have more than that business accounts monthly that write checks for,
but all the routine bills are on direct-pay. I guess if were out to
maximize the cashback have them on the card as well but I'm more than
reluctant to ever give a CC company access to an account.

If ran the fuel bill that way, then could actually see it! :) As is,
the distributor discount is a little over that over pump pricing on bulk
delivery; 1% on the pump island.

Lynda can generally keep the car at about half-price with the Dillons
credit from the grocery tab, so she does it but only the two of us can't
eat enough to finance more than the one. :(
...


> I hate being side tracked. :~)

Doncha' just, though! Now we're well into planting season this year
already...

--

On 5/15/17 1:19 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/15/2017 9:46 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 05/15/2017 9:07 AM, Leon wrote: ...
>
>>
>> In my case it's just the convenience of only the one monthly
>> statement for the miscellaneous routine "stuff" almost exclusively
>> altho certainly anything over the 'net or thru eBay or the like is
>> worthy.
>
> No kidding, no separate check for DirecTV, Electricity, Cell Phone,
> and so on. And I pay the CC with a direct money transfer. I write
> about 2~3 checks per month and have 30~40 charges per month.
>

We just realized that the address on our checks is from the house we
moved out of 3 years ago! :-) That's how often we write checks.

What cracks me up are the technophobes who still insist on writing
checks for everything because they don't want their information out
there, "electronically."

Yet, when they write their check at the grocery store, the clerk runs it
through an electronic scanner that checks their account balance to
approve the check, withdrawing the funds immediately (just like a debt
card), and in most cases, the clerk hands the check back to the
customer. I've seen customers refuse to take back the check, thinking
they somehow must leave the check with the store. Then, when the
customer is out of sight, the clerk rips up the check and tosses it or
runs it through an under counter check shredder.

I have clients who are the same way and don't like instant, electronic
transactions. They will write me a check and I'll smile and accept it
with gratitude. Then I go to my car, take a picture of the check with
the bank app on my phone, and electronically send the check to my bank
and rip up their check.

Credit card fraud is just a nasty by-product the the age in which we live.
It happens and it's best to just take advantage of the technology the CC
companies and banks have set up to help you catch and avoid it.

Just this morning, the wife found another fraudulent charge on one of
our cards. So we clicked on the link to report it and it'll be taken
care of. Now, it sucks because we'll have to wait for another card in
the mail and change all the info at merchants who use that card, but
it's just the price of convenience. It probably happens once every
other year on average, but considering how many transactions we make and
the fact that it doesn't cost us anything to deal with it, I would never
go back to the old ways.

The crooks are playing the same game and the industry just has to try to
stay ahead of them.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 12 May 2017 19:22:18 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 05/12/2017 7:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>...
>
>> I haven't had my Amex refused for several years. ...
>
>Huh. There are now more places in town here that refuse it now than
>accept it in the hardware/building supply arenas which is about all I
>purchase locally on CC as have open accounts at essentially every where
>else. Of course, this is a small market where there's only one building
>supply and a couple hardware stores, so it doesn't take many to make it
>useless.
>
>I suppose what I should do is just open accounts at both instead...

Entirely possible but I haven't had a problem with mine in years.
Perhaps it's a regional thing?

On 5/13/2017 4:31 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 05/13/2017 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is
>> the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program
>> isn't
>> for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. ...
>
> Not reading into it at all, but am curious why the CC company is doing
> the searching; particularly if they "resent him using" the rebate
> program. That's just more $$ out of their pocket they didn't need to
> lose...
>
> As noted in a further response, they make their fee on every purchase
> and most of the ilk of Leon make pretty sizable use of them so that adds
> up (not to 20% APR, no, but 3% or so I think is pretty typical; AmEx
> raised to now almost 5% was what the building supply manager here told
> me was why dropped them.
>
> --
>
>


Ironically when I visit the CC company and review my spending for the
month the CC company actually marks certain purchases as possibly being
eligible for a price match. With that marker there is a link to add the
item to a list of items to be watched. You can either hunt for them and
send in the documentation of let them do the looking. That is what
happened on this GPS/Radio on the second credit.

On Sat, 13 May 2017 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>You guys are reading something into this that isn't there. Leon is the kind of guys credit card companies hate. The price match program isn't for him, and they resent the fact that he uses it. I did a stint working for a bank working on all types of residential construction loans so I was required to take all kinds of classes on credit vehicles and applications. Seriously, the term in the industry for brother Leon is a "deadbeat" because the make NO money from him. No interest, no annual fees, no cash advance interest, no transfer fees, nothing. Worse, they have to pay him under the agreement with the card of reference! Hence, since theypay money out without receiving anything from him, "deadbeat".
>
>According to NerdWallet, Bloomberg, and a couple of others, the CC debt for the average household is over $16K! According to Bankrate.com, the average low interest card is at an APR of a little over 13%, but the average cash back/points back/rewards card is 17.68%. I used this calculator (which is also used by banks to check numbers) to get some idea of what that means to the consumer.
>
>http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/credit-cards/credit-card-minimum-payment.aspx
>
>Using a 16K balance, a 17.68% APR, a 4% required payment, the calculator shows that there will be $25K paid out at the minimum payment to pay off the principal and interest! Depending on their method, the front end interest on the monthly payment of $640 is about $230 per payment. YMMV, depending on the calculator. I have a Citibank that has no annual fee, a points system, etc., different crap I don't use or want, and the interest payment (according to them) using those parameters is closer to $325 a month.
>
>Regardless, look at the income average for the CC companies. Add in annual fees for many, add in late fees for many, fees from cash advances, fees from balance transfers, etc., and you have to wonder how much CC companies make per user a month on average. With all costs, fees, interest and anything else that can be added, I'll bet it is around $350 a month.
>
>So really, does anyone think they care about price matching and sending Leon a credit? The CC companies are plucking so many chickens that they don't even notice him.
>
>On the other hand, thanks a lot, Leon. Since you are a deadbeat, every other chicken is being plucked so you can have a free feather pillow!
>

On top of all that he owns his house ::gasp::