Question on routers and router tables

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
>> whatever.
>
> You're only talking about a few seconds which was <4 or that's what it was
> for my stolen Makita 3hp router. If I was using it freehand, the
> centrifugal
> force was reminder enough not to put it down and if was in the router
> table
> I made for it, then the noise of the machine running was notice not to
> touch
> anything associated with the router for a few seconds.
>
> Sure, safety features are all and good, but there comes a point where
> there's diminishing returns. The cordless DeWalt drill I bought recently
> has
> a brake and it's an irritation as far as I'm concerned. The sudden "jerk"
> to
> a stop makes the drill jump and not what I'd call conducive to good
> drilling
> practice.
>
>

LOL you and I agree on the brake for the router, I absolutely will not buy a
cordless drill with out a brake. When driving screws "in or out" I
absolutely want the drill to stop turning when I let up on the trigger.
The clutch does not always work well when removing a screw. I absolutely do
not use it as a safety feature.

"PCPaul" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway? I know I don't
> but then over here in the UK we're not allowed to have dado blades
> anyway, even on table saws, because they are too big and scary.
>
I don't have a radial arm saw presently. But have had several over the
years. Besides their obvious advantage for cutoff work, I used them
extensively for dados cuts. I cut thousands of them. I have had projects
where I have cut hundreds of dados.

Now I can cut a nice dado with a guide and a router. The difference? The
radial arm saw is so much quicker. So for production, it is great for dados.

"Leon"> wrote
>
> I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
Reminds me of a guy I knew in high school. He wanted to be a politician and
a ......... weather man.

Both profession require you to make big promises and lie a lot.

He called it "integrity".

Upscale wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have either
>> fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a table. It may
> or
>> may not be easier to adjust bit height with a plunge base.
>
> For the most part, you're right except that Jessem offers a Milwaukee router
> without any type of base that's intended only for table mounting. It appears
> to be permanently wired into a separate power/speed controller so adding a
> base (if there's one that fits) to it for free hand routing would be awkward
> at best.
>
> http://www.jessem.com/new_products.htm

JessEm makes the most incredible stuff. I'd have one or more of
everything they make if I could afford it. :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Mar 22, 1:42 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 12:25 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:07:27 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:
>
> >>> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on
> >>> a 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
> >>> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
> >>> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
> >>> motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>
> >> What's even stranger is that some manufacturers offer a 2.x horse
> >> router and a 3.x horse. The 2s usually draw 12 amps and the 3s 15.
> >> One horse out of three amps ain't perpetual motion, but it's close!
>
> > I'm trying to imagine a real 3 hp router. I think it might be a
> > little top heavy ;)
>
> > Anything with a universal motor in it they pull that crap.
>
> > The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
> > about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
> > the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
> > It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
> > get it inserted and engaged.
>
> The point is that it's easier to precisely adjust the height if you are
> making the adjustment from the same side of the table as the one on which
> you are making the measurement.

I disagree. I generally need to get my eye down level with the bit to
set the height and where are my hands then? I do have my router table
at a higher height than most people probably do so that may be part of
it. I have it about 4" higher than my TS. I would much prefer a
router that was designed to have all the controls on one side and easy
to read when mounted in the table than the through the table
adjustment. I can't see what speed it's set to on mine without
sticking my head in there, so I have to move it to one extreme, turn
it on and then listen to the speed changes. I used the through the
table adjustment a couple times before giving up on it, and having
that built into the router was one of the reasons I chose that model
so it's not like I didn't expect it to be worthwhile. Just in
practice it was easier without it.

-Kevin

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
> whatever.


Absolutely true and yes it can be annoying but it really only takes about 5
or 6 seconds to come to a stop. I have that kinda time. ;~) All things
being equal I would choose the router with that feature if and when I buy
another but I really don't put that feature up there as being a deal
breaker.

"Daryl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> & decker evs plunge router no fixed base can this router be used on a
router
> table? without a fixed base? I have seen some advertised using plunge
> routers

Depends. Do you have a way to fasten the router down securely when using it
in the table? If not, then you need to find out how to do that first before
doing anything else. Otherwise, get another router.

"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5vzxl.10328$%[email protected]...
>
> Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about the switch; no, the Makita
> has a toggle switch so you don't have to hold anything down for the motor
> to stay on. Flip the switch to the off position and the brake kicks in.
> Don't know how it works, but it's pretty spiffy.

I find that really odd that it has a toggle switch and a brake. IMHO the
brake is a safety feature. Most all hand tools with a brake, drills and
miter saws, use the "dead man" style switch, if you let go the tool shuts
down quickly. Again IMHO that brake is not going to help much if you get
into trouble and need to shut the router off quickly. With the spring
loaded switch you would simply let to. Anyway I can really see no
advantage to the brake if you have to move your hand to shut the router off.
I can wait for the bit come to a stop during normal operations.

Am I missing something here?

>
> BTW, does your Laguna bandsaw have a brake? My MiniMax does; you step on
> a pedal which kicks the motor off, then applying downward force to the
> pedal forces a brake shoe (like what you'd find in a car) against the
> inner surface of the lower wheel. I *really* like that...

Yes my Laguna has a foot brake that works the same way and cuts power to the
magnetic switch. Additionally if the top and bottom wheel covers open the
power is shut off to the switch and there is a large red push button kill
switch.

Both my 12" disk sander and Laguna have the manual brakes but I seldom use
them unless there is a visitor in the shop.



>
> --
> Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
> sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
> whatever.

You're only talking about a few seconds which was <4 or that's what it was
for my stolen Makita 3hp router. If I was using it freehand, the centrifugal
force was reminder enough not to put it down and if was in the router table
I made for it, then the noise of the machine running was notice not to touch
anything associated with the router for a few seconds.

Sure, safety features are all and good, but there comes a point where
there's diminishing returns. The cordless DeWalt drill I bought recently has
a brake and it's an irritation as far as I'm concerned. The sudden "jerk" to
a stop makes the drill jump and not what I'd call conducive to good drilling
practice.

Dado on a RAS is about the only reason I would keep one around. Great
for quick repetative cross cut dados for shelves, etc. Don't have one
right now and have an emotional dislike to the damn things and I am
reminded about it every time I look at the slightly pointier pointing
finger on my left hand. It was done with a regular cross cut blade at
the end of a very long day of cutting the same part over and over and
over... ouch.

On Mar 23, 2:02=A0pm, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:33:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:
> > Steve Turner wrote:
> >> -MIKE- wrote:
> >>> Steve Turner wrote:
> >>>> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can
> >>>> probably relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties
> >>>> vintage Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin
> >>>> down. =A0My Dad has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a bra=
ke,
> >>>> but then it quit working and you can really tell the difference.
>
> >>> Yep. =A0I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after mark=
et
> >>> brake.
> >>> It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would
> >>> clamp the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an
> >>> electromagnet would pull the rollers off the blade.
>
> >>> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes i=
n
> >>> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.
>
> >> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to
> >> mount some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>
> > The mechanics of a bicycle brake is what I had in mind when think of it=
.
> > It doesn't take that much pressure to stop it and there is surprisingly
> > little torque on a (free) spinning blade. =A0 (don't ask how I know) =
=A0 :-)
>
> Seems like a bike disc brake is exactly what you need - as long as it has
> the reach to get over the teeth.
>
> Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway? I know I don't
> but then over here in the UK we're not allowed to have dado blades
> anyway, even on table saws, because they are too big and scary.
>
> Apparently.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Daryl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hello folks I have a question concerning the types of routers to use on
> router tables, my old combo router table w/router got busted up and I need
> to get another setup but I don't want to go with another cheap combo
> setup, I want to get an actual table router, my question is this I have a
> 2HP black & decker evs plunge router no fixed base can this router be used
> on a router table? without a fixed base? I have seen some advertised using
> plunge routers
>
>
> TIA
>
Thank you all very much, your answers were just what I needed

[email protected] wrote:

> I'm trying to imagine a real 3 hp router. I think it might be a
> little top heavy ;)

I've got a real 5 hp router, and it's not especially top heavy - it's
just heavy... and the power cord is a bit heavy, too.

:)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Swingman" wrote ..
>
> "Lee Michaels" wrote
>>
>> "Leon"> wrote
>>>
>>> I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
>> Reminds me of a guy I knew in high school. He wanted to be a politician
>> and a ......... weather man.
>>
>> Both profession require you to make big promises and lie a lot.
>>
>> He called it "integrity".
>
> Or, in the case of weather predictors, "guess" a lot.
>
> I will say that I've been slightly impressed the past few years with their
> accuracy, more or less. Being in the construction business, I start every
> Monday morning updating the top line of each day in my "week-at-a-glance"
> organizer for the next 15 day forecast, and correcting those wrong from
> the prior week.
>
> The past few years there has been a lot less correcting necessary.
>

I assume that the geology around there is fairly consistent and
straightforward to forcast. I live in Seattle in the middle of the "Puget
Sound Convergence Zone". The weather people around here really have to work
hard.

We got a body of water in front of us (Puget Sound). We have some mountains
on the other side of that (Olympic Mountains) with the Pacific Ocean on the
other side of them. And behind us, we have the Cascade mountain range. We
also have Canada to the north of us who likes to send us some nasty cold
weather now and then. In addition to all these varibles, in the winter, the
snow level varies daily. with lots of variations in elevation.

What then happens is about thirty little microclimates depending where you
are in this Chaos model. And as any good Chaos model will do, it is moody
and unpredictable. This winter had snow falling almost half the time
somewhere. Except for the really big storms, they hardly ever got it right.
Parts of the year, their computer models work really well. Increase the
number of storms or weather patterns, it becomes a true mockery of any kind
of predictive process.

We often compare the weather lies to the Mayor lies. Who was the bigget
liar yesterday kind of discussion.

-MIKE- wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:

>> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to
>> mount some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>>
>
> The mechanics of a bicycle brake is what I had in mind when think of it.
> It doesn't take that much pressure to stop it and there is surprisingly
> little torque on a (free) spinning blade. (don't ask how I know) :-)

Heh - I was just imagining something like that trying to get a grip on
my old wobble dado blade... 8-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:

> Heh - I was just imagining something like that trying to get a grip on
> my old wobble dado blade... 8-)

...or my 10" sanding disk. ;-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

PCPaul wrote:

> Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway? I know I don't
> but then over here in the UK we're not allowed to have dado blades
> anyway, even on table saws, because they are too big and scary.
>
> Apparently.

Sure. Also a moulding head, a sanding disk, and a drill chuck - but not
all at the same time. :)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have either
> fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a table. It may
> or may not be easier to adjust bit height with a plunge base.


Well that use to be true but in the last 4 or 5 years routers have been
emerging that are specifically designed for use in a router table or for
hand held use.
The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or fine
tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The fan does not
let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not running.

On Mar 22, 12:25 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:07:27 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:
>
> > It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
> > 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
> > minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
> > electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router motor
> > develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>
> What's even stranger is that some manufacturers offer a 2.x horse router
> and a 3.x horse. The 2s usually draw 12 amps and the 3s 15. One horse
> out of three amps ain't perpetual motion, but it's close!

I'm trying to imagine a real 3 hp router. I think it might be a
little top heavy ;)

Anything with a universal motor in it they pull that crap.

The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
get it inserted and engaged.

-Kevin

"PCPaul" wrote:

> Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway?

Don't have a RAS.

Was given a wobble dado.

Used it once in a table saw, threw it in the trash.

Damn thing scared me to death and cut a lousy dado which may have been
my fault.

Lew

Steve Turner wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Hammer Hands wrote:
>>>> I have to agree with Leon. I have the larger Triton in my table and
>>>> absolutely love it. It has variable speed and will take anything I
>>>> throw at it and laugh!
>>> My 3HP Makita 3612C (an old design but still a goodie) has an
>>> electronic brake. I don't know whether the Triton (or any other
>>> popular "3HP" router) has that feature, but I *love* it, and any new
>>> router I bought would most certainly have to have it.
>>
>>
>> Do you like that brake when used in a hand held operation and do you
>> have to hold the switch for the motor to continue to run? I don't
>> think that would be a big deal when used in a router table situation
>> but I can certainly see the value in hand held usage.
>
> Funny you should ask, because the Makita is my table router and I got
> tired of taking it out of the table for hand-held operations so I bought
> a Dewalt combo pack. I agonized over that purchase because the Dewalt
> had all the features I wanted *except* for a brake, and to this day I
> wish I'd found a different combo that had one. I like the brake for
> both table and hand-held operations. I wish my tablesaw had one! :-)

Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about the switch; no, the Makita
has a toggle switch so you don't have to hold anything down for the
motor to stay on. Flip the switch to the off position and the brake
kicks in. Don't know how it works, but it's pretty spiffy.

BTW, does your Laguna bandsaw have a brake? My MiniMax does; you step
on a pedal which kicks the motor off, then applying downward force to
the pedal forces a brake shoe (like what you'd find in a car) against
the inner surface of the lower wheel. I *really* like that...

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5412875f-9355-4c85-a333-190cd927a1dd@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
> about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
> the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
> It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
> get it inserted and engaged.
>
> -Kevin


Well concerning those statements, your set up may be like that but not all
routers and or router lifts are the same.

Many router lifts, some routers have no lock or have the need for a lock
under the table. My particular router has a lock but it is not needed when
used in the router table configuration. The lock might be needed if I used
my router in a hand held application in it's plunge configuration.

Some router lifts only afford you the ability to and or are much easier to
adjust from above the table. Still in my case there is no router table
height adjustment on top however the collet is loosened and tightened from
on top of the router table.

Having said that I pretty much go with your school of thought myself but
realize that not every one uses the same router that I do so different
factors will have varying degrees of importance to the user.

"Lee Michaels" wrote

> We often compare the weather lies to the Mayor lies. Who was the bigget
> liar yesterday kind of discussion.

Much less complicated climate wise hereabouts. Around here it is either
raining, or it isn't ... nothing much else matters/happens.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have either
> fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a table. It may
or
> may not be easier to adjust bit height with a plunge base.

For the most part, you're right except that Jessem offers a Milwaukee router
without any type of base that's intended only for table mounting. It appears
to be permanently wired into a separate power/speed controller so adding a
base (if there's one that fits) to it for free hand routing would be awkward
at best.

http://www.jessem.com/new_products.htm

"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hammer Hands wrote:
>> I have to agree with Leon. I have the larger Triton in my table and
>> absolutely love it. It has variable speed and will take anything I throw
>> at it and laugh!
>
> My 3HP Makita 3612C (an old design but still a goodie) has an electronic
> brake. I don't know whether the Triton (or any other popular "3HP"
> router) has that feature, but I *love* it, and any new router I bought
> would most certainly have to have it.


Do you like that brake when used in a hand held operation and do you have to
hold the switch for the motor to continue to run? I don't think that would
be a big deal when used in a router table situation but I can certainly see
the value in hand held usage.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or fine
> tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The fan does
not
> let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not running.

I'm in the market for a new router since my 3hp Makita was stolen from my
best friend's garage. How easy is the fine adjustment with the Triton? And
second, how well does the dust port work for chip extraction? I'm looking at
the 3 1/4 HP model.

Thanks

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> LOL you and I agree on the brake for the router, I absolutely will not buy
a
> cordless drill with out a brake. When driving screws "in or out" I
> absolutely want the drill to stop turning when I let up on the trigger.

I've only had it a few months and not used it very much in that time. It's
my first drill with a brake, or any woodworking tool with a brake for that
matter. Driving screws, I can envision a use for the brake so you don't go
too deep, but I've never had any problem with the brake-less drill when
removing screws. I suppose I'll get used to it in time.

The most appropriate router nowadays is at least 2hp, maybe 2.5 or 3
and has a plunge base with a built in ability to set the height from
above the table. This can save you the money of an expensive raiser
setup and give you the conveinience of the above the table adjust.

Lots ofd times they sell kits with both types of bases so you at least
still have a fixed base to keep for hand work and you just need to
drop the router out of the plunge base that is attached to the table
when yoyu need to do hand work.

On Mar 21, 10:07=A0pm, "Daryl" <[email protected]> wrote:
> hello folks I have a question concerning the types of routers to use on
> router tables, my old combo router table w/router got busted up and I nee=
d
> to get another setup but I don't want to go with another cheap combo setu=
p,
> I want to get an actual table router, my question is this I have a 2HP bl=
ack
> & decker evs plunge router no fixed base can this router be used on a rou=
ter
> table? without a fixed base? I have seen some advertised using plunge
> routers
>
> =A0 =A0 TIA

Hammer Hands wrote:
> I have to agree with Leon. I have the larger
> Triton in my table and absolutely love it. It has variable speed and will
> take anything I throw at it and laugh!

My 3HP Makita 3612C (an old design but still a goodie) has an electronic
brake. I don't know whether the Triton (or any other popular "3HP"
router) has that feature, but I *love* it, and any new router I bought
would most certainly have to have it.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:43:43 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
>>
>
>
> I read somewhere, some time ago, that an easy way to beat the
> weatherman's forecast accuracy is to simply take today's reported
> weather and use that for tomorrow's forecast.

That sounds reasonable. Some observations, go outside moments before the
forcast and report what you see and feel. Several years ago when we first
got going on Satelite Dish programing we were only able to get the major
broad cast stations from New York or Los Angeles IIRC. We had to pick which
ever one worked the best for us with reguard to program times. We went
with the East coast network and I found that the New Youk City metropolitan
area "rain" forcast was often more accurate than the local forcast here in
Houston. If it was going to rain in NY it would probably rain in Houston
as well. LOL


>
> But weather is a chaotic system and the forecasters really do a pretty
> good job of near term forecasting. On the other hand, above the
> quantum level, the physics of electricity is a deterministic system
> and there's no excuse for that kind of inaccuracy. Misleading at best,
> fraud at worst.

Yeah, but I think it has become pretty common place to understand that the
hp and amp ratings are more of an indicator of how that tool will perform as
compared to one with less or higher ratings. Automobile manufacturers rate
hp of their engines and that is fine if you have the engine directly hooked
up to a dyno. Unfortunately those hp numbers are reduced when the engine is
attached to a transmission, drive shaft, differential, and axel. And those
perceived numbers are further reduced when the same engine is matched to a
larger vehicle or truck. I highly suspect that the 3.5 hp and 15 amp
rating is closer to accurate than say the hp that is at the wheels of my
Tundra that has a 382 hp rating but I know that this particular engine will
perform better than the engine with the 235 hp rating.

David G. Nagel wrote:
> Craftsman radial arm saw heads have been recalled. Some heads can be
> retrofitted with an effective blade shield others can't. Those that
> can't be fixed can get a $100 REFUND in leiu of repair. You have to send
> the motor in for disposal.
>
> Look up the recall on either the SEARS.COM web site or do a google search.

Already installed; thanks.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5412875f-9355-4c85-a333-190cd927a1dd@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 22, 12:25 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:07:27 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:
>>
>> > It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
>> > 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
>> > minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
>> > electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
>> > motor
>> > develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>>
>> What's even stranger is that some manufacturers offer a 2.x horse router
>> and a 3.x horse. The 2s usually draw 12 amps and the 3s 15. One horse
>> out of three amps ain't perpetual motion, but it's close!
>
> I'm trying to imagine a real 3 hp router. I think it might be a
> little top heavy ;)


Have you seen a CNC router?

"-MIKE-" wrote:

> We had wonderful Summers in Cleveland.

Yep, as I would tell my mother, July 4&5.

> And because of our position in the time zone, it didn't get dark
> until about 9:30, end of June-beginning on July.

Right after "Blackberry Winter" which is usually mid June.

Can still remember finishing up on the 18th hole at Pleasant Valley
around 10:00PM in late June.

Lew

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:17:21 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

> PCPaul wrote:
>
>> Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway? I know I don't
>> but then over here in the UK we're not allowed to have dado blades
>> anyway, even on table saws, because they are too big and scary.
>>
>> Apparently.
>
> Sure. Also a moulding head, a sanding disk, and a drill chuck - but not
> all at the same time. :)

Reminds me of the lathe I learned on - an old Coronet Major - with a
table saw mounted to the other side of the main axle - where a bowl
turning head would go.

You had to think about your elbows, especially if you ran it with the
guard removed and the fence tucked out of the way...

<http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g.e.malthouse/cmajor01.htm>

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>Jessem offers a Milwaukee router
>>without any type of base that's intended only for table mounting.
>
> From the blurb about the router motor on Jessem's web site:
>
> "15 AMP, 3-1/2 MAX HP "
>
> Never happen!!
>
> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
> 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
> motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>
> Jessem and/or Milwaukee is not alone in grossly over inflating the HP
> in their advertising literature.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA
It seems that makers of tools such as drills, routers, and the like always
quote the maximum power. The average power of a single phase motor is half
of the maximum power. Hence both average hp of 1 3/4 is the same as maximum
hp of 3 1/2.
The amount of work that you can do is more closely associated with the
average horsepower.

Jim

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:33:36 -0500, Jim wrote:

> The average power of a single phase motor is half of the maximum power.
> Hence both average hp of 1 3/4 is the same as maximum hp of 3 1/2.

I heard somewhere that a conservative horsepower estimate can be made for
110V equipment by taking the amp rating and moving the decimal point one
place left. IOW, 13 amps is 1.3 horse. Remember, I said
conservative :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or
>> fine
>> tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The fan does
> not
>> let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not running.
>
> I'm in the market for a new router since my 3hp Makita was stolen from my
> best friend's garage. How easy is the fine adjustment with the Triton? And
> second, how well does the dust port work for chip extraction? I'm looking
> at
> the 3 1/4 HP model.
>
> Thanks

The fine tune adjustment is very easy to use providing you have access to
the router under the table and you mount the router with the adjustment knob
on the front side. Like a typical plunge router it has a lock lever to
lock the height setting in any position. You release that lever, IIRC it is
adjustable to most any position, turn the coarse handle for fast
adjustments, and then turn the fine tune knob for zeroing in on the final
adjustment. You can use the fine adjustment knob to move the router through
out the whole distance that the motor will travel, so it does not reach a
limit similar to the limits of the fine tune knob on the Bosch 1617 fixed
base router. I have that router also.

I have never used the router as a hand held. It is always hanging under the
table and I use the dust port built into the fence for collection.

I have the bigger model and bought it when it was originally in the $300
range and was the only Triton router choice and do not regret paying more.

A couple of things to consider but keep in mind I am not one that really
cares about how a tool looks so much as how well it performs. I am going to
sound critical here but I am not saying this to scare you away.

My router was and I suspect that they continue to be made in China. Like
the complaints about cheap materials appearance used for the interiors of
some cars the Triton plastic looks cheap. Does this affect anything at all,
NO. The metal parts look like you would expect from any brand.

The fine adjustment knob has a bit of play. The bit height is not
immediately affected by the initial movement of the knob. Keep in mind that
the bit height does stay consistent once the movement starts but it
typically takes about 1/16 of a turn to get the bit moving in either
direction. Not a problem with me as the knob still allows accurate
adjustments. IIRC a full turn moves the bit about 1/16", and about 2 full
turns of the coarse adjustment handle/knob to go from full up to full down
and visa versa.

The collet is a very quick release and tighten design. From fully tight to
fully loose, enough for the bit to come out, is about 1/8" turn so leverage
will be your friend. The threads are more coarse than those on most
routers. I am not a fan of lock shaft routers as I prefer to work two
wrenches against each other to loosen or tighten the collet, however with
the lock shaft on the Triton it is much easier to remove the bit from above
the table with 1 wrench above the table. You do not have to hold a lock to
lock the shaft. A safety feature requires the router to be turned off to
raise/lower the router enough to loosen the collet and this same feature
automatically locks the shaft when the collet is in the bit removal
position. Moving the bit back to an operating spot automatically unlocks
the shaft and allows you to turn the router back on.

Would I buy it again? Yes but I would take a look at the offerings again
and only change brands if I found something better.

"Lee Michaels" wrote:


> I live in Seattle in the middle of the "Puget Sound Convergence
> Zone". The weather people around here really have to work hard.

Let's see, summer is July 4 & 5.

After that, snow or rain.

Kind of like Cleveland.

Lew

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have the bigger model and bought it when it was originally in the $300
>> range and was the only Triton router choice and do not regret paying
>> more.
>
> One other question. Did you remove the springs from the plunge mechanism
> for
> use in the table?
>
>
Yes, however the spring is "intended" to be removed easily. Remove a plug
and take out the spring.

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>
>>> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have
>>> either fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a
>>> table. It may or may not be easier to adjust bit height with a
>>> plunge base.
>>
>>
>> Well that use to be true but in the last 4 or 5 years routers have
>> been emerging that are specifically designed for use in a router
>> table or for hand held use.
>> The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or
>> fine tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The
>> fan does not let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not
>> running.
>
> OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info


You are absolutely welcome! I just learned that Makita has an electric
brake on at least one of their routers.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have
>> either fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a
>> table. It may or may not be easier to adjust bit height with a
>> plunge base.
>
>
> Well that use to be true but in the last 4 or 5 years routers have
> been emerging that are specifically designed for use in a router table
> or for hand held use.
> The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or
> fine tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The
> fan does not let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not
> running.
>
>

I have to agree with Leon. I have the larger
Triton in my table and absolutely love it. It has variable speed and will
take anything I throw at it and laugh!

YMMV

Steve

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have the bigger model and bought it when it was originally in the
>> $300 range and was the only Triton router choice and do not regret
>> paying more.
>
> One other question. Did you remove the springs from the plunge
> mechanism for use in the table?
>
>

I did remove the plunge springs from mine, it made the adjusting easier.
If you go this route be aware that the spring is under a lot of tension
and will fly out of the plunge tube even though you are holding on to the
cap. DAMHIKT!!

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:33:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

> Steve Turner wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> Steve Turner wrote:
>>>> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can
>>>> probably relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties
>>>> vintage Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin
>>>> down. My Dad has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake,
>>>> but then it quit working and you can really tell the difference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yep. I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after market
>>> brake.
>>> It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would
>>> clamp the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an
>>> electromagnet would pull the rollers off the blade.
>>>
>>> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
>>> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.
>>
>> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to
>> mount some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>>
>>
> The mechanics of a bicycle brake is what I had in mind when think of it.
> It doesn't take that much pressure to stop it and there is surprisingly
> little torque on a (free) spinning blade. (don't ask how I know) :-)

Seems like a bike disc brake is exactly what you need - as long as it has
the reach to get over the teeth.

Does anybody run a wobble blade or dado in a RAS anyway? I know I don't
but then over here in the UK we're not allowed to have dado blades
anyway, even on table saws, because they are too big and scary.

Apparently.

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>> Leon wrote:
>>> Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
>>> have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
>>> You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
>>> this!?" :-)
>>
>>
>> No, Steve indicated that it might be a deal breaker in the future.
>> Agreed, if you have it you probably appreciate it more.
>
> I can't speak for Steve. I speak for -MIKE-.


Sorry Mike.

Leon wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hammer Hands wrote:
>>> I have to agree with Leon. I have the larger Triton in my table and
>>> absolutely love it. It has variable speed and will take anything I throw
>>> at it and laugh!
>> My 3HP Makita 3612C (an old design but still a goodie) has an electronic
>> brake. I don't know whether the Triton (or any other popular "3HP"
>> router) has that feature, but I *love* it, and any new router I bought
>> would most certainly have to have it.
>
>
> Do you like that brake when used in a hand held operation and do you have to
> hold the switch for the motor to continue to run? I don't think that would
> be a big deal when used in a router table situation but I can certainly see
> the value in hand held usage.

Funny you should ask, because the Makita is my table router and I got
tired of taking it out of the table for hand-held operations so I bought
a Dewalt combo pack. I agonized over that purchase because the Dewalt
had all the features I wanted *except* for a brake, and to this day I
wish I'd found a different combo that had one. I like the brake for
both table and hand-held operations. I wish my tablesaw had one! :-)

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Steve Turner wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> Steve Turner wrote:
>>> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can
>>> probably relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties
>>> vintage Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin
>>> down. My Dad has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake,
>>> but then it quit working and you can really tell the difference.
>>>
>>
>> Yep. I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after market
>> brake.
>> It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would clamp
>> the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an electromagnet
>> would pull the rollers off the blade.
>>
>> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
>> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.
>
> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to mount
> some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>
Craftsman radial arm saw heads have been recalled. Some heads can be
retrofitted with an effective blade shield others can't. Those that
can't be fixed can get a $100 REFUND in leiu of repair. You have to send
the motor in for disposal.

Look up the recall on either the SEARS.COM web site or do a google search.

Dave Nagel
BTDTGTR

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> the bit height does stay consistent once the movement starts but it
> typically takes about 1/16 of a turn to get the bit moving in either
> direction.

This bother me a bit. Do you feel some resistance when the bit starts
moving? If not, then adjusting the bit would be solely a visual adjustment
and that can lead to errors.

> Would I buy it again? Yes but I would take a look at the offerings again
> and only change brands if I found something better.

Well, so far in my search, I haven't found anything better. I'm not as
concerned with price as I am with machined quality.

Thanks for the critique.

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon"> wrote
>>
>> I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
> Reminds me of a guy I knew in high school. He wanted to be a politician
> and a ......... weather man.
>
> Both profession require you to make big promises and lie a lot.
>
> He called it "integrity".


When my son was about 4 years old he wanted to be the guy that rode on the
back of the garbage truck and collected garbage. I questioned him on that a
few minutes wondering what the attraction was and was relieved to learn that
he wanted to ride on the back of the truck. I asked if he had ever smelled
the garbage in those trucks and he replied with a nod and said that it
stunk. I reminded him that riding on that truck all day would require him
to smell that stink all day also.

Before I realized that my son was pretty smart I kiddingly would remind him
that he could be come a doctor or a weather forecaster. NO ONE would ever
seriously expect you to diagnose or forecast it correctly every time.
Fortunately he has done well in school and I now kiddingly remind him that
he is his mother's and my revised "Retirement Plan". :~)

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>Jessem offers a Milwaukee router
>>without any type of base that's intended only for table mounting.
>
> From the blurb about the router motor on Jessem's web site:
>
> "15 AMP, 3-1/2 MAX HP "
>
> Never happen!!
>
> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
> 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
> motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>
> Jessem and/or Milwaukee is not alone in grossly over inflating the HP
> in their advertising literature.


I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.

-MIKE- wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>>> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
>>> whatever.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely true and yes it can be annoying but it really only takes
>> about 5 or 6 seconds to come to a stop. I have that kinda time. ;~)
>> All things being equal I would choose the router with that feature if
>> and when I buy another but I really don't put that feature up there as
>> being a deal breaker.
>
> Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
> have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
> You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
> this!?" :-)

Yes, it's kinda like that. :-) After running that Makita in a table
(and by hand) for so many years, going to a router without a brake was
annoying. And I *knew* I wouldn't like it because I've also had many
occasions to use my buddy's router table (and he mine) with the Porter
Cable 7518, and discovering that it (the Big Bad Boy of table routers!)
didn't have a brake was a disappointment to us both.

The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can probably
relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties vintage
Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin down. My Dad
has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake, but then it quit
working and you can really tell the difference.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I have the bigger model and bought it when it was originally in the $300
> range and was the only Triton router choice and do not regret paying more.

One other question. Did you remove the springs from the plunge mechanism for
use in the table?

On Mar 22, 3:02 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:5412875f-9355-4c85-a333-190cd927a1dd@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
> > about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
> > the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
> > It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
> > get it inserted and engaged.
>
> > -Kevin
>
> Well concerning those statements, your set up may be like that but not all
> routers and or router lifts are the same.
>
> Many router lifts, some routers have no lock or have the need for a lock
> under the table. My particular router has a lock but it is not needed when
> used in the router table configuration. The lock might be needed if I used
> my router in a hand held application in it's plunge configuration.

I have the smaller Triton, and I have from time to time forgotten to
lock it without anything seeming to move, but it falls in the category
of why risk it? Does it actually say in the manual you don't need to
lock it in table use?

> Some router lifts only afford you the ability to and or are much easier to
> adjust from above the table. Still in my case there is no router table
> height adjustment on top however the collet is loosened and tightened from
> on top of the router table.

The above the table bit changes with one wrench are definitely
awesome. And they give you a "real" wrench, which totally shocked me.

-Kevin

Daryl wrote:
> hello folks I have a question concerning the types of routers to use
> on router tables, my old combo router table w/router got busted up
> and I need to get another setup but I don't want to go with another
> cheap combo setup, I want to get an actual table router, my question
> is this I have a 2HP black & decker evs plunge router no fixed base
> can this router be used on a router table? without a fixed base? I
> have seen some advertised using plunge routers

1. Yes, your B&D can be used in a table, with or without a fixed base. All
you need do is attach the existing base to the table insert.

2. A more powerful router would be better. Routers are essentially
*trimming* tools...they weren't really meant to serve in place of shapers;
nevetheless, that's the way people are using them so more power is better.

3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have either
fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a table. It may or
may not be easier to adjust bit height with a plunge base.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 22, 12:25 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:07:27 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:
>>
>>> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on
>>> a 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
>>> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
>>> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
>>> motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>>
>> What's even stranger is that some manufacturers offer a 2.x horse
>> router and a 3.x horse. The 2s usually draw 12 amps and the 3s 15.
>> One horse out of three amps ain't perpetual motion, but it's close!
>
> I'm trying to imagine a real 3 hp router. I think it might be a
> little top heavy ;)
>
> Anything with a universal motor in it they pull that crap.
>
> The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
> about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
> the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
> It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
> get it inserted and engaged.

The point is that it's easier to precisely adjust the height if you are
making the adjustment from the same side of the table as the one on which
you are making the measurement.

Leon wrote:
>> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
>> 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
>> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
>> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
>> motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>>
>> Jessem and/or Milwaukee is not alone in grossly over inflating the HP
>> in their advertising literature.
>
>
> I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
>

He is, in hindsight, which is a benefit the router manufacturers get to
take advantage of.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> I live in Seattle in the middle of the "Puget Sound Convergence
>> Zone". The weather people around here really have to work hard.
>
> Let's see, summer is July 4 & 5.
>
> After that, snow or rain.
>
> Kind of like Cleveland.
>
> Lew
>

We had wonderful Summers in Cleveland.
And because of our position in the time zone, it didn't get dark
until about 9:30, end of June-beginning on July.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> I find that really odd that it has a toggle switch and a brake. IMHO the
> brake is a safety feature. Most all hand tools with a brake, drills and
> miter saws, use the "dead man" style switch, if you let go the tool shuts
> down quickly. Again IMHO that brake is not going to help much if you get
> into trouble and need to shut the router off quickly. With the spring
> loaded switch you would simply let to. Anyway I can really see no
> advantage to the brake if you have to move your hand to shut the router off.
> I can wait for the bit come to a stop during normal operations.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>

You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
whatever.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote:
>
>> We had wonderful Summers in Cleveland.
>
> Yep, as I would tell my mother, July 4&5.
>

I don't know, Lew, I remember having long winters *and* summers.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Upscale wrote:
>> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
>> whatever.
>
> You're only talking about a few seconds which was <4 or that's what it was
> for my stolen Makita 3hp router. If I was using it freehand, the centrifugal
> force was reminder enough not to put it down and if was in the router table
> I made for it, then the noise of the machine running was notice not to touch
> anything associated with the router for a few seconds.
>

Certainly, it's a matter of opinion. I don't care about the safety
feature of the brake.
I would love the feature as a time/frustration saver alone.
In the case of my router, it's more like several seconds and a lot
longer on my table saw.



> Sure, safety features are all and good, but there comes a point where
> there's diminishing returns. The cordless DeWalt drill I bought recently has
> a brake and it's an irritation as far as I'm concerned. The sudden "jerk" to
> a stop makes the drill jump and not what I'd call conducive to good drilling
> practice.
>

I *really* miss the brake on my former cordless drill.
The "jerk" never bothered me, nor effected my accuracy.

To each, his own.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
>> You don't have to wait for the tool to wind down to continue with
>> whatever.
>
>
> Absolutely true and yes it can be annoying but it really only takes about 5
> or 6 seconds to come to a stop. I have that kinda time. ;~) All things
> being equal I would choose the router with that feature if and when I buy
> another but I really don't put that feature up there as being a deal
> breaker.
>

Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
this!?" :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

>> Leon wrote:
>> Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
>> have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
>> You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
>> this!?" :-)
>
>
> No, Steve indicated that it might be a deal breaker in the future. Agreed,
> if you have it you probably appreciate it more.
>

I can't speak for Steve. I speak for -MIKE-.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Steve Turner wrote:
> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can probably
> relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties vintage
> Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin down. My Dad
> has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake, but then it quit
> working and you can really tell the difference.
>

Yep. I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after market brake.
It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would clamp
the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an electromagnet
would pull the rollers off the blade.

I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Steve Turner wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> Steve Turner wrote:
>>> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can
>>> probably relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties
>>> vintage Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin
>>> down. My Dad has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake,
>>> but then it quit working and you can really tell the difference.
>>>
>>
>> Yep. I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after market
>> brake.
>> It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would clamp
>> the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an electromagnet
>> would pull the rollers off the blade.
>>
>> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
>> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.
>
> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to mount
> some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>

The mechanics of a bicycle brake is what I had in mind when think of it.
It doesn't take that much pressure to stop it and there is surprisingly
little torque on a (free) spinning blade. (don't ask how I know) :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Morris Dovey wrote:
>
> Heh - I was just imagining something like that trying to get a grip on
> my old wobble dado blade... 8-)
>

I have one of those. There would be exceptions, certainly. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

David G. Nagel wrote:
>>> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
>>> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.
>>
>> You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to
>> mount some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...
>>
> Craftsman radial arm saw heads have been recalled. Some heads can be
> retrofitted with an effective blade shield others can't. Those that
> can't be fixed can get a $100 REFUND in leiu of repair. You have to send
> the motor in for disposal.
>
> Look up the recall on either the SEARS.COM web site or do a google search.
>
> Dave Nagel
> BTDTGTR

Been done, Dave. Thanks, though.

But, they didn't send a brake with the recall. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
>>>> have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
>>>> You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
>>>> this!?" :-)
>>>
>>> No, Steve indicated that it might be a deal breaker in the future.
>>> Agreed, if you have it you probably appreciate it more.
>> I can't speak for Steve. I speak for -MIKE-.
>
>
> Sorry Mike.
>

Just razzin ya, brother.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>
>
> Of course it's not a deal breaker, but I equate it with the euphoria you
> have after buying your first cordless drill or pneumatic nailer.
> You're like, "How the he!! did I ever get anything done before I had
> this!?" :-)


No, Steve indicated that it might be a deal breaker in the future. Agreed,
if you have it you probably appreciate it more.

"Daryl" wrote:

> hello folks I have a question concerning the types of routers to use
> on router tables,....

These days a 3HP Milwaukee is getting favorable comments as a table
router.

Lew

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> the bit height does stay consistent once the movement starts but it
>> typically takes about 1/16 of a turn to get the bit moving in either
>> direction.
>
> This bother me a bit. Do you feel some resistance when the bit starts
> moving? If not, then adjusting the bit would be solely a visual adjustment
> and that can lead to errors.

Really no more so than when you start turning the knob. Absolutely the
adjustment is visual if you need to be more accurate than 1/128" and could
lead to errors if you absolutely insist on depending on the turn of the knob
to indicate an exact movement. Does this keep you from making accurate
adjustments NO. Like finishes I never experiment with a setting on the
actual project pieces. Because it takes more time to zero the bit and make
some calculated adjustment from there vs. simply eye balling every result of
an adjustment on a scrap I have never depended on an exact movement when
turning the knob. Even if the adjustment could be that accurate I would
still run a test piece to verify "I" did not make an adjustment mistake. I
have always viewed the bit height adjustment as being similar to setting the
rip fence on my TS. I look at the indicator on the fence to locate the
fence, I look at the bit height to set the height. If I do a particular
set up often I will keep scraps to use as set up blocks. YMMV

Having said this I have used plunge routers for many years in a router table
set up. Fine adjustments were a real hassle as the next adjustment might be
"much" farther off than the previous adjustment. At least with the Triton
each adjustment can be minute and always closer to the desired setting.
You can get very close to a mark on the wood with the coarse adjustment, the
fine adjustment knob will zero in on that mark pretty accurately visually,
close enough that bit chatter would probably enter more error into the mix.

In your case you may have different needs and depending on an exact movement
in relation to a given amount of the turn of the knob may be a necessity
given your circumstances. You may not have the luxury of achieving the same
results using a differnt method.

If you need the dial adjustment accuracy I would suggest a fixed base router
and after market precision mechanical lift combination. The draw back there
is that you can expect to spend in the $400 range for the lift alone. If
you are a big fan of the "Incra" style TS rip fences and the way they
adjust, the seperate lift may be the better choice.




>
>> Would I buy it again? Yes but I would take a look at the offerings again
>> and only change brands if I found something better.
>
> Well, so far in my search, I haven't found anything better. I'm not as
> concerned with price as I am with machined quality.
>
> Thanks for the critique.

It was my pleasure. While I consider the Triton to be a fine tool it
certainly does not follow the leader or focus on achieving results in the
same way that many would expect. I just wanted you to be aware of those
differences. While it is always a hassle to return something, Woodcraft has
a return policy of 90 days IIRC, no questions asked so you are not locked in
to a purchase that you might determine to be short of your requirements or
expectations.

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> LOL you and I agree on the brake for the router, I absolutely will not
>> buy
> a
>> cordless drill with out a brake. When driving screws "in or out" I
>> absolutely want the drill to stop turning when I let up on the trigger.
>
> I've only had it a few months and not used it very much in that time. It's
> my first drill with a brake, or any woodworking tool with a brake for that
> matter. Driving screws, I can envision a use for the brake so you don't go
> too deep, but I've never had any problem with the brake-less drill when
> removing screws. I suppose I'll get used to it in time.


When removing screws or nuts quickly you can stop when the screw is out or
nut is off. Lettiing up on the trigger stops the momentum and the nut and
or screw don't take off.

"Daryl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hello folks I have a question concerning the types of routers to use on
> router tables, my old combo router table w/router got busted up and I need
> to get another setup but I don't want to go with another cheap combo
> setup, I want to get an actual table router, my question is this I have a
> 2HP black & decker evs plunge router no fixed base can this router be used
> on a router table? without a fixed base? I have seen some advertised using
> plunge routers
>
>
> TIA
>

I don't know of any router that cannot be used on a router table. That said
different style routers are better suited for router table use. Typically
the best routers to use are the newer style combo routers that work as a
plunge or fixed base router all in one. The Triton router is an example of
this. IIRC PC has a router that falls in this category and perhaps other
brands as well.
Next would be the fixed base with a router lift of some type followed by
just a fixed base router and finally a plunge router.

For the most part any of the styles will perform the same "once adjusted".
Ease of accurate adjustments is what it is all about when choosing a router
for the router table.

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:43:43 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
>


I read somewhere, some time ago, that an easy way to beat the
weatherman's forecast accuracy is to simply take today's reported
weather and use that for tomorrow's forecast.

But weather is a chaotic system and the forecasters really do a pretty
good job of near term forecasting. On the other hand, above the
quantum level, the physics of electricity is a deterministic system
and there's no excuse for that kind of inaccuracy. Misleading at best,
fraud at worst.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> He is, in hindsight,


LOL, I cannot agree with that either. It is not unusual for the local
weather guy to say we need the rain it has been days since we have gotten
any. He then states that the official rainfall measurement was "zip" when
for the same time period, same city, I measure 1.5". Or visa versa.

The thing that gets my goat is when they comment that the high/ low temp
is/was "X" degrees above or below normal for the day to exaggerate the heat
or cold temperature conditions for any given day. What the heck do they
think "normal" means? It is absolutely normal for the temperature to not
be exactly the same all the time. It would make much more sense if they
indicated the same figures as compared to the "AVERAGE" temp of a particular
day.

>Jessem offers a Milwaukee router
>without any type of base that's intended only for table mounting.

From the blurb about the router motor on Jessem's web site:

"15 AMP, 3-1/2 MAX HP "

Never happen!!

It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router
motor develops something closer to 1.5HP.

Jessem and/or Milwaukee is not alone in grossly over inflating the HP
in their advertising literature.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

[email protected] wrote:
>
> The advice I would give as far as router tables go, don't even worry
> about all the above the table adjustment stuff. You have to go under
> the table to lock and unlock the height anyway, so wtf is the point?
> It's easier to just turn a knob than get your adjustment wrench and
> get it inserted and engaged.
>

I've got a cheap Ryobi router table and a cheap Ryobi router to go with it.

As it turns out, a nut-driver easily fits in a hole in the router's table
and engages the shaft for the bit adjustment. I simply adjust the height
where I want it, the reach under the table and slap the height lock.

What IS missing is someway to lock the router shaft for changing the bit. I
solved that by drilling one hole and adding one guide such that a push on a
1/4" rod from the front of the table engages the shaft lock. I can then work
on bit changing from the top.

"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> A safety feature, sure, in that you don't have a dangerous bit spinning
> endlessly after you've finished your cut and you're either waiting to
> remove the workpiece from harm's way or you're done with the operation.
> You've shut the router off; now it would be nice to move on with your next
> operation or train of thought without fear of absentmindedly encountering
> that spinning bit. In many cases a spinning bit or blade is simply a time
> waster; you're waiting for the dumb thing to stop so you can set that
> router down, make a height adjustment, reposition a fence, etc. A
> stationary cutter is a safer cutter.

I suppose that would be a nice feature if the router came with it but I have
no problem waiting 5 or 6 seconds for the bit to spin down to a stop. I
had a serious run in with a TS blade about 20 years ago. I have learned to
be patient and watch the blade or bit actually stop spinning if I don't walk
away. Getting in a too big of a hurry will eventually catch up with you.

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:07:27 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:


>
> It's either a 3-1/2 HP motor or it's a 15 amp motor, but running on a
> 120v circuit it's for durn sure not both. 3.5hp on 120v requires a
> minimum of 22amps and that assumes a unity power factor and 100%
> electromechanical efficiency. It's far more likely that the router motor
> develops something closer to 1.5HP.
>

What's even stranger is that some manufacturers offer a 2.x horse router
and a 3.x horse. The 2s usually draw 12 amps and the 3s 15. One horse
out of three amps ain't perpetual motion, but it's close!


--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Leon wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> 3. There is no such thing as "actual table router". Routers have
>> either fixed bases or plunge bases; either type can be used in a
>> table. It may or may not be easier to adjust bit height with a
>> plunge base.
>
>
> Well that use to be true but in the last 4 or 5 years routers have
> been emerging that are specifically designed for use in a router
> table or for hand held use.
> The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or
> fine tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The
> fan does not let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not
> running.

OK, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Leon wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:5vzxl.10328$%[email protected]...
>> Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about the switch; no, the Makita
>> has a toggle switch so you don't have to hold anything down for the motor
>> to stay on. Flip the switch to the off position and the brake kicks in.
>> Don't know how it works, but it's pretty spiffy.
>
> I find that really odd that it has a toggle switch and a brake. IMHO the
> brake is a safety feature. Most all hand tools with a brake, drills and
> miter saws, use the "dead man" style switch, if you let go the tool shuts
> down quickly. Again IMHO that brake is not going to help much if you get
> into trouble and need to shut the router off quickly. With the spring
> loaded switch you would simply let to. Anyway I can really see no
> advantage to the brake if you have to move your hand to shut the router off.
> I can wait for the bit come to a stop during normal operations.
>
> Am I missing something here?

A safety feature, sure, in that you don't have a dangerous bit spinning
endlessly after you've finished your cut and you're either waiting to
remove the workpiece from harm's way or you're done with the operation.
You've shut the router off; now it would be nice to move on with your
next operation or train of thought without fear of absentmindedly
encountering that spinning bit. In many cases a spinning bit or blade
is simply a time waster; you're waiting for the dumb thing to stop so
you can set that router down, make a height adjustment, reposition a
fence, etc. A stationary cutter is a safer cutter.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Lee Michaels" wrote
>
> "Leon"> wrote
>>
>> I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
> Reminds me of a guy I knew in high school. He wanted to be a politician
> and a ......... weather man.
>
> Both profession require you to make big promises and lie a lot.
>
> He called it "integrity".

Or, in the case of weather predictors, "guess" a lot.

I will say that I've been slightly impressed the past few years with their
accuracy, more or less. Being in the construction business, I start every
Monday morning updating the top line of each day in my "week-at-a-glance"
organizer for the next 15 day forecast, and correcting those wrong from the
prior week.

The past few years there has been a lot less correcting necessary.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:38:10 -0500, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I heard somewhere that a conservative horsepower estimate can be made for
>110V equipment by taking the amp rating and moving the decimal point one
>place left. IOW, 13 amps is 1.3 horse. Remember, I said
>conservative :-).


Probably not a bad rule of thumb.

In your example, 13 amps at 120 volts = 1.56 KVA (or KW if you assume
a power factor of 1.0) = 2.09 HP (PF = 1.0, Eff = 100%)

2.09 * (PF)*(Eff) = 1.3 or an estimated (PF)*(Eff) = 0.62 which is in
the ballpark for the product of the values. 80% efficiency and 0.8 PF
would be 0.64..

My 3HP tablesaw has a FLA of 14 amps at 240v. Using that rule of thumb
with 28 amps at 120 gives 2.8HP. Not far off, and a little
conservative as you suggest. That's assuming the advertised 3HP is
correct.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

-MIKE- wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> The other machine that I *really* wish had a brake (and you can
>> probably relate to this -MIKE-) is my recently acquired Eighties
>> vintage Craftsman 10" radial arm saw; it takes *forever* to spin
>> down. My Dad has the bigger 12" model and it *used* to have a brake,
>> but then it quit working and you can really tell the difference.
>>
>
> Yep. I think it would be easy (relatively) to design an after market
> brake.
> It could be a couple of rubber(ish) rollers on springs that would clamp
> the blade like brake shoes. When power is turned on, an electromagnet
> would pull the rollers off the blade.
>
> I know the regular brakes work using the existing motor and brushes in
> some way and would probably be a bear to retrofit.

You know, I actually wondered how hard (or unsafe!) it would be to mount
some kind of bicycle brake arrangement to the RAS blade...

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/