Nitrocellulose lacquer must be out of favor in most localities by now.
I'm pretty sure you can't use it in a factory setting in CA these days,
probably in some other places too. Would I be correct to assume most of
them use a spray on polyurethane product? This is the case with high
quality guitars, where most of my woodworking and finishing experience
comes from. Nitro is the traditional finish for quality guitars, but in
recent years poly has pretty much become the standard out of necessity,
much to the chagrin of purists. Anyone know what the better furniture
makers use and how it rates? Can anyone buy good furniture anymore, or
does everything come from Ikea and Oak Express these days?
"Hax Planks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The coffee table I'm making for my mom has about $100 invested in it if
> you factor in wear and tear on tools, electricity, etc. Labor is huge
> though.
The higher the labor to cost of materials ratio the more money you make
providing you are the labor. Price accordingly.
In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
>
> <http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buff
> et.html>
> to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
I think I'd want to see it in situ.
Seems to me the surroundings and lighting would make a big differnece
for a piece like that.
--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows
Ed Clarke wrote:
> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>
> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
PK
Hi,
have a look at:
http://www.hesse-lignal.de/
(also in english)
for professional use.
Cheers
Sven
Tischlermeister
(prof. joiner with qualification)
"Hax Planks" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> Nitrocellulose lacquer must be out of favor in most localities by now.
> I'm pretty sure you can't use it in a factory setting in CA these days,
> probably in some other places too. Would I be correct to assume most of
> them use a spray on polyurethane product? This is the case with high
> quality guitars, where most of my woodworking and finishing experience
> comes from. Nitro is the traditional finish for quality guitars, but in
> recent years poly has pretty much become the standard out of necessity,
> much to the chagrin of purists. Anyone know what the better furniture
> makers use and how it rates? Can anyone buy good furniture anymore, or
> does everything come from Ikea and Oak Express these days?
On 2005-02-23, Hax Planks <[email protected]> wrote:
> much to the chagrin of purists. Anyone know what the better furniture
> makers use and how it rates? Can anyone buy good furniture anymore, or
> does everything come from Ikea and Oak Express these days?
I have a Henredon sofa that cost me about $4k. It's leaking goose down.
This does not please me at all. My conclusion, after looking at a lot
of stuff in furniture stores is that you have to make quality furniture
yourself or have it custom built.
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 27 Feb 2005 17:58:32 GMT, Ed Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2005-02-27, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ed Clarke wrote:
>>> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>>
>>> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>>> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>>
>>> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>>
>> Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
>> the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
>
>I fear that I have to agree. You can polish a turd to a high gloss if
>you freeze it in liquid nitrogen, but when all's said and done, it's
>still crap. The Morris piece is carefully crafted ugly. It is, however,
>less ugly than that first piece of firewood.
>
>So why do I feel so guilty about criticizing Morris? I guess that even
>he had off days... Here's another one:
>
>http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/Sept.2001/ac.images/libertysideboard2.jpg
>
>I guess they're all ugly. Do a google search on images for "liberty sideboard".
Yep, looks like the whole idea of that design was misplaced. Some were
just more ugly than others.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On 2005-02-28, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>>Oh yeah, you need 55 board feet of QS white oak (includes 15% wastage ).
>
> FIFTY FIVE FEET? How big are those beasties? Checking scans...oh, 14"
> by 32" by about 5'. That's $275 in wood alone at prices here. Ouch!
> That's the kind of project where you want all of the wood to be from
> the same tree, so it all fumes to the same depth.
The problem is the back - shiplapped QS, 12 each 4 7/8 x 23 7/16. You could
use QS plywood, but that's $100+ at Condon. I think I'm going with the
original Ellis design. Instead of the 4 panes of leaded glass, I'll use a
single piece of glass to get the thing completed.
I've been looking at stained glass supplies and techniques and those panes
can be replaced later if I really want them. It sounds easy, but lots of
things sound easy until you try to do them. 50/50 lead-tin solder, lead U
track, lead H track, cut with a knife and solder together. Simple right?
Unless your iron is too hot and melts the lead... or...
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 27 Feb 2005 17:58:32 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-27, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ed Clarke wrote:
>>> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>>
>>> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>>> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>>
>>> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>>
>> Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
>> the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
Yes, our tastes do vary. I wouldn't have a period piece in my home,
period. (Bad pun alert!) Queen Anne can keep her legs while Sheraton,
chippendale, et al can keep their stuff. I'm not fond of any of it.
>So why do I feel so guilty about criticizing Morris? I guess that even
>he had off days... Here's another one:
I picked up that picture from a book on Morris, but don't know if
he had any design input for the Liberty sideboards. YMMV.
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
On 28 Feb 2005 02:19:02 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-27, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>> Ser gut. My favorite Stickley/Ellis bookcase is the #700 with the
>> quad lights at the top of the door.
Oops, I dropped an "h" in "sehr gut" there, didn't I?
>Are you aware of "Popular Woodworking" February issue(#146)? The cover
>project is the #700 bookcase and the author is Robert W. Lang ( also
No, I wasn't. I wonder if the issue is still available on newsstands.
(calling Blind George's News Stand now...not open yet) I'll look for
it at the library this week, too. Thanks for the heads-up.
>the author of "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture - 27 Stickley
>Designs For Every Room in the Home"). I've been in touch with him about
I have his "More" book and the "Inlay" book from that series.
It's very cool that the author is available for consultation.
>this project - he forgot to specify that he used dark brown Briwax and
>to wait two weeks after shellacing the piece before waxing it. It also
>looks like he pinned the tennons in one of the pictures.
Dark wax for hiding itself when it fills the pores?
>Briwax uses toluene as the solvent so the shellac needs extra curing time.
Grok that.
>Oh yeah, you need 55 board feet of QS white oak (includes 15% wastage ).
FIFTY FIVE FEET? How big are those beasties? Checking scans...oh, 14"
by 32" by about 5'. That's $275 in wood alone at prices here. Ouch!
That's the kind of project where you want all of the wood to be from
the same tree, so it all fumes to the same depth.
>I'm going to build this before I start on the #719 with mitered glass. I
>have everything I need except the oak which I'll get next week.
Pics, please. Maybe I'll get to that dictionary stand this week. I
have the fuming tent all done and sitting on the back porch waiting
for me.
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
On 27 Feb 2005 17:58:32 GMT, Ed Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2005-02-27, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ed Clarke wrote:
>>> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>>
>>> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>>> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>>
>>> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>>
>> Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
>> the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
>
>I fear that I have to agree. You can polish a turd to a high gloss if
>you freeze it in liquid nitrogen, but when all's said and done, it's
>still crap. The Morris piece is carefully crafted ugly. It is, however,
>less ugly than that first piece of firewood.
>
>So why do I feel so guilty about criticizing Morris? I guess that even
>he had off days... Here's another one:
>
>http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/Sept.2001/ac.images/libertysideboard2.jpg
>
>I guess they're all ugly. Do a google search on images for "liberty sideboard".
Here's one from that collection that makes the "oven door" model look
like it may have been modeled. With the exception of the hardware,
everything else is the same as the initially posted ugly guy:
<http://www.millineryworks.co.uk/images_furnexhibs/Arts&Craftsexhib/LibertySideboard.jpg>
This one's not so bad:
<http://www.fitzdecarts.com/images/English%20antiques/English%20Antique%20Furniture/LibertySideboard.JPG>
BTW, you were right about the oven door, here's ugly again:
<http://www.puritanvalues.co.uk/8337.jpg>
I didn't go through all 124 hits on images.google.com, but of those I did
look at, it was kind of funny how many of the pictures were taken outdoors.
The settings almost appeared to be alleys, backyards, or garages; sort of
like these were things that had been tossed out. :-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
>>
>><http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buff
>>et.html>
>>to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
>
>
> I think I'd want to see it in situ.
>
> Seems to me the surroundings and lighting would make a big differnece
> for a piece like that.
>
Email him about it. I'm sure he'd be wiling to loan you one for a few
years to see how it fit in with your other furnishings;-)
Joe
On 2005-02-25, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
> I think I'd like it better in fumed white oak. It's reminiscent of the
> Liberty sideboard which I liked but wouldn't want in my home. This is
> similar: http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/1111/1027_1_md.jpg
That thing looks like someone cut the top off of another piece and glued
it to a table. At the time these were made I think that opium and cocaine
were legal. Is this design an Arts & Crafts example of the result of
recreational drug use?
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 00:00:26 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
><[email protected]> spake:
> I'll see if I can find that nicer Liberty sideboard/hutch and email
> the pic to you. Is that email addy valid?
Sure is, send away!
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
> Let's see what Ed has to say about the other one in the pic I emailed
> to him. If he likes that one, send your real email addy to one of us
> and we'll send a copy. (I got sick and effin' tired of fighting spam,
> pukey ducks, christmas sh*t, and virii in ABPF so I don't frequent it
> any longer.)
The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
Click on the links. It's easier to compare if you use Firefox and open both
pictures in tabs, or open both in a new window with IE.
The Morris version has a unifying feature with the supports on the side
of the table and the display openings on the top shelf. These pieces seem
to be designed to go together rather than just having a random bookcase
stuck on as an afterthought.
I'm not sure, but the Ugly version seems to have the base door on the
right opening as in an oven. The hinges are on the bottom? What's that
all about?
The round bulls-eye glass in the center door on the Ugly bookcase part
do not seem to be a good feature. You can't see through the bulls-eyes
and there's no light behind them so why even use glass? The 4 over 4
glass on the Morris piece let you use the center as a display cabinet.
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 2005-02-27, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ed Clarke wrote:
>> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>
>> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>
>> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>
> Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
> the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
I fear that I have to agree. You can polish a turd to a high gloss if
you freeze it in liquid nitrogen, but when all's said and done, it's
still crap. The Morris piece is carefully crafted ugly. It is, however,
less ugly than that first piece of firewood.
So why do I feel so guilty about criticizing Morris? I guess that even
he had off days... Here's another one:
http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/Sept.2001/ac.images/libertysideboard2.jpg
I guess they're all ugly. Do a google search on images for "liberty sideboard".
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
On 2005-02-27, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
> On 27 Feb 2005 13:38:06 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
><[email protected]> spake:
>>The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>>Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>
>>http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>
> Ser gut. My favorite Stickley/Ellis bookcase is the #700 with the
> quad lights at the top of the door.
Are you aware of "Popular Woodworking" February issue(#146)? The cover
project is the #700 bookcase and the author is Robert W. Lang ( also
the author of "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture - 27 Stickley
Designs For Every Room in the Home"). I've been in touch with him about
this project - he forgot to specify that he used dark brown Briwax and
to wait two weeks after shellacing the piece before waxing it. It also
looks like he pinned the tennons in one of the pictures.
Briwax uses toluene as the solvent so the shellac needs extra curing time.
Oh yeah, you need 55 board feet of QS white oak (includes 15% wastage ).
I'm going to build this before I start on the #719 with mitered glass. I
have everything I need except the oak which I'll get next week.
--
I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
of the last century.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The dresser isn't too bad either, esthetically (IMO). The treter buffet
> lines and angles neither flow well nor do they blend together in a
> harmonious manner. Of course, that's my opinion, peoples' idea of
> esthetically pleasing differs widely, so others may find it a thing of
> beauty.
LOL...
Peoples' idea of esthetically pleasing.... Ponder that. LOL..
A good friend whom I often work with had a job in an affluent neighborhood.
The decorating was questionable in the customers house. The probably 6,000+
square foot house with large spiral staircase, wooden floors with a 10'
diameter raised step floor in the middle of the living room surrounded with
6, 10" diameter columns going to the 12' tall ceilings gives you an idea of
the styling of the home as you enter through the front door. I found that
odd but the furniture at the entry way was bizarre. First thing you see are
3 over stuffed art deco style chairs covered in red velvet and between each
chair stood equal height penguins in tuxedos holding ash trays filled
individually loose cigarettes.
Hax Planks wrote:
>Can anyone buy good furniture anymore, or
> does everything come from Ikea and Oak Express these days?
As far as factory stuff goes, these guys make some terrific stuff:
<http://www.stickley.com/index.html>
Check out the factory tour link. I'm pretty sure they use
nitrocellulose lacquer.
California still HAS factories? I thought they were all driven away
with taxes and laws. <G>
Here in New England there are plenty of one-off folks who will make good
stuff for a price. I know a guy who sells Mohawk finishing products to
shops, and I understand he still sells an awful lot of lacquer.
Barry
"Ed Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-02-23, Hax Planks <[email protected]> wrote:
> --
> I can find no modern furniture that is as well designed and emotionally
> satisfying as that made by the Arts and Crafts movement in the early years
> of the last century.
You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a Mission
look to it.
http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:15:18 -0700, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 27 Feb 2005 17:58:32 GMT, Ed Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-02-27, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Ed Clarke wrote:
>>>> On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>>>> Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>>>
>>> Nope, sorry, Morris one still looks like some hybrid that was hit with
>>> the ugly stick, right down to the uneven height doors.
>>
>>I fear that I have to agree. You can polish a turd to a high gloss if
>>you freeze it in liquid nitrogen, but when all's said and done, it's
>>still crap. The Morris piece is carefully crafted ugly. It is, however,
>>less ugly than that first piece of firewood.
>>
>>So why do I feel so guilty about criticizing Morris? I guess that even
>>he had off days... Here's another one:
>>
>>http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/Sept.2001/ac.images/libertysideboard2.jpg
>>
>>I guess they're all ugly. Do a google search on images for "liberty sideboard".
>
>
> Here's one from that collection that makes the "oven door" model look
>like it may have been modeled.
I meant to say "modified", as in the original was modified later.
> With the exception of the hardware,
>everything else is the same as the initially posted ugly guy:
><http://www.millineryworks.co.uk/images_furnexhibs/Arts&Craftsexhib/LibertySideboard.jpg>
>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Leon says...
> You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a Mission
> look to it.
> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
The prices are astonishing. People really pay $3000 for a coffee table?
I'm making a maple and walnut coffee table for my Mom's birthday and I
could quit my day job if I could sell them for $500.
B a r r y says...
> As far as factory stuff goes, these guys make some terrific stuff:
> <http://www.stickley.com/index.html>
>
> Check out the factory tour link. I'm pretty sure they use
> nitrocellulose lacquer.
>
> California still HAS factories? I thought they were all driven away
> with taxes and laws. <G>
>
> Here in New England there are plenty of one-off folks who will make good
> stuff for a price. I know a guy who sells Mohawk finishing products to
> shops, and I understand he still sells an awful lot of lacquer.
>
> Barry
I thought the Stickley prices were high until I saw the Michael Colca
page. For Stickley it looks like the finish choices are lacquer and
oil/wax. I'm surprised that a top drawer (haha) furniture maker would
sell their products with a finish that offers so little protection. Not
that oil and wax should never be used, but I wonder if customers know
how vulnerable it is.
Leon says...
> But do you have the room and could you turn out at least 10 of those a
> month? $500 would be pretty cheap out of a one man operation. Also,
> marketing your product is half the battle.
I could probably do 10 a month if it was standardized. If each was
custom, it might only be 5 a month. I'm also assuming about 60 hours a
week since working for myself isn't that demanding.
Leon says...
> Ok, that is the easy part. Do you have a market ready to buy every thing
> that you build in those quantities?
> Can you get by on 5 per month with "gross" sales of $2500.
I don't know. I never tried selling any furniture. My sister has a
crafts store. I may try to sell some things there just for the fun of
it. I could get by on $2500 gross sales for a while. Of course then I
would need to pay taxes on it.
Leon says...
> I woul jump all over that. Traffic is what you will need.
But it remains to be seen how much she will like me moving into her
store.
> And the cost of materials, supplies, tools.
The coffee table I'm making for my mom has about $100 invested in it if
you factor in wear and tear on tools, electricity, etc. Labor is huge
though.
Rob Mitchell says...
> I'm just finishing a small night table for my daughter. Materials (elm)
> cost me about $50. Labour, I don't even want to think about it, but
> many hours, 'cause I'm really slow. Today I was in Borg and saw a
> completely finished night table, solid wood marked down for $45.
>
> Materials $50
> New Table saw $2000
> 'I love you Daddy'...priceless!
They may be solid wood, but the quality is still terrible.
"Hax Planks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon says...
>
>> Ok, that is the easy part. Do you have a market ready to buy every thing
>> that you build in those quantities?
>> Can you get by on 5 per month with "gross" sales of $2500.
>
> I don't know. I never tried selling any furniture. My sister has a
> crafts store. I may try to sell some things there just for the fun of
> it.
I woul jump all over that. Traffic is what you will need.
I could get by on $2500 gross sales for a while. Of course then I
> would need to pay taxes on it.
And the cost of materials, supplies, tools.
"Hax Planks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon says...
>
>> You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a Mission
>> look to it.
>> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>
> The prices are astonishing. People really pay $3000 for a coffee table?
> I'm making a maple and walnut coffee table for my Mom's birthday and I
> could quit my day job if I could sell them for $500.
But do you have the room and could you turn out at least 10 of those a
month? $500 would be pretty cheap out of a one man operation. Also,
marketing your product is half the battle.
Hax Planks wrote:
> The prices are astonishing. People really pay $3000 for a coffee table?
> I'm making a maple and walnut coffee table for my Mom's birthday and I
> could quit my day job if I could sell them for $500.
Really?
$500 retail, $250 for you, less tools, rent, heat, labour, materials,
insurance, power, advertising, office expenses, accounting, legal,
complying with Government safety and pollution regs, and finally taxes.
Forget it. However, if you start a business making coffee tables, and
sell a few through your sister, then you might be able to write off all
of your tools (and a truck, woodlot, attending tradeshows in exotic
locations etc) from your other income (if you are not incorporated,
depends on jurisdiction) You might save more in taxes by losing money
on the tables!
I'm just finishing a small night table for my daughter. Materials (elm)
cost me about $50. Labour, I don't even want to think about it, but
many hours, 'cause I'm really slow. Today I was in Borg and saw a
completely finished night table, solid wood marked down for $45.
Materials $50
New Table saw $2000
'I love you Daddy'...priceless!
"Hax Planks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon says...
>
>> But do you have the room and could you turn out at least 10 of those a
>> month? $500 would be pretty cheap out of a one man operation. Also,
>> marketing your product is half the battle.
>
> I could probably do 10 a month if it was standardized. If each was
> custom, it might only be 5 a month. I'm also assuming about 60 hours a
> week since working for myself isn't that demanding.
Ok, that is the easy part. Do you have a market ready to buy every thing
that you build in those quantities?
Can you get by on 5 per month with "gross" sales of $2500.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a
> Mission look to it.
> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>
You're right, Leon. Those are really nicely designed.
Patriarch
On 28 Feb 2005 21:08:11 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-28, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>
>>>Oh yeah, you need 55 board feet of QS white oak (includes 15% wastage ).
>>
>> FIFTY FIVE FEET? How big are those beasties? Checking scans...oh, 14"
>> by 32" by about 5'. That's $275 in wood alone at prices here. Ouch!
>> That's the kind of project where you want all of the wood to be from
>> the same tree, so it all fumes to the same depth.
>
>The problem is the back - shiplapped QS, 12 each 4 7/8 x 23 7/16. You could
>use QS plywood, but that's $100+ at Condon. I think I'm going with the
>original Ellis design. Instead of the 4 panes of leaded glass, I'll use a
>single piece of glass to get the thing completed.
Oy vay, that'll ruin the look and Ellis will haunt you forever. You
can make those yourself in an hour with under ten bucks worth of
materials.
>I've been looking at stained glass supplies and techniques and those panes
>can be replaced later if I really want them. It sounds easy, but lots of
>things sound easy until you try to do them. 50/50 lead-tin solder, lead U
>track, lead H track, cut with a knife and solder together. Simple right?
>Unless your iron is too hot and melts the lead... or...
I picked up a regulator and iron from Ebay for about $40. Or practice
with your Heller soldering gun on a $2 strip of lead came and a broken
window pane. Glass companies give away small pieces like that. Cut
with a knife, dykes, axe, or whatever is handy.
Tell ya what. Send the exact dimensions and I'll do it for you at
cost. I need the practice anyway. ;) Glass is free since I replaced
all my single-glazed windows with duals the year I moved in.
I picked up a Firestone 1211 hand axe last week and will use it like
a round knife (leather knife) to cut the came.
http://www.discountcutlery.net/en-us/dept_21251.html
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
> <http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/trett
> er_buffet.html> to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
Well, I agree that wasn't my favorite...
Patriarch
On 27 Feb 2005 13:38:06 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>
>> Let's see what Ed has to say about the other one in the pic I emailed
>> to him. If he likes that one, send your real email addy to one of us
>> and we'll send a copy. (I got sick and effin' tired of fighting spam,
>> pukey ducks, christmas sh*t, and virii in ABPF so I don't frequent it
>> any longer.)
>
>The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>
>http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
Ser gut. My favorite Stickley/Ellis bookcase is the #700 with the
quad lights at the top of the door.
>Click on the links. It's easier to compare if you use Firefox and open both
>pictures in tabs, or open both in a new window with IE.
>
>The Morris version has a unifying feature with the supports on the side
>of the table and the display openings on the top shelf. These pieces seem
>to be designed to go together rather than just having a random bookcase
>stuck on as an afterthought.
Maybe they let the floor manager decide what to build. Oops!
>I'm not sure, but the Ugly version seems to have the base door on the
>right opening as in an oven. The hinges are on the bottom? What's that
>all about?
I'd use it for setting down a pile of plates before shuffling them
back into the belly of the beast.
>The round bulls-eye glass in the center door on the Ugly bookcase part
>do not seem to be a good feature. You can't see through the bulls-eyes
>and there's no light behind them so why even use glass? The 4 over 4
>glass on the Morris piece let you use the center as a display cabinet.
With white plates behind them, you might be able to see a bit, but
they are mighty ugly, huh?
--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:53:22 -0700, the inscrutable Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> spake:
>On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:57:25 -0800, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>>> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>You're right, Leon. Those are really nicely designed.
>>
>>Agreed, but it's more decorative, more of a G&G + Roycroft influence.
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
><http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buffet.html>
>to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
I think I'd like it better in fumed white oak. It's reminiscent of the
Liberty sideboard which I liked but wouldn't want in my home. This is
similar: http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/1111/1027_1_md.jpg
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:29:06 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
>> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
>
>
>It's his beauty of craftsmanship. It's the back view of the mirror where it
>connects to the dresser that did if for me.
>
That I will grant you. I've seen that approach for attachment in FWW a
number of years ago (think they were advocating it for upper half of a
china cabinet) and was really impressed with the idea.
The dresser isn't too bad either, esthetically (IMO). The treter buffet
lines and angles neither flow well nor do they blend together in a
harmonious manner. Of course, that's my opinion, peoples' idea of
esthetically pleasing differs widely, so others may find it a thing of
beauty.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
It's his beauty of craftsmanship. It's the back view of the mirror where it
connects to the dresser that did if for me.
On 26 Feb 2005 04:09:52 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>> On 26 Feb 2005 00:00:26 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
>><[email protected]> spake:
>
>> I'll see if I can find that nicer Liberty sideboard/hutch and email
>> the pic to you. Is that email addy valid?
>
>Sure is, send away!
OK, sent. I think this one came from a William Morris book.
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:26:14 -0600, the inscrutable Patriarch
<[email protected]> spake:
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a
>> Mission look to it.
>> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>>
>
>You're right, Leon. Those are really nicely designed.
Agreed, but it's more decorative, more of a G&G + Roycroft influence.
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
On 27 Feb 2005 13:38:06 GMT, Ed Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2005-02-26, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>
>> Let's see what Ed has to say about the other one in the pic I emailed
>> to him. If he likes that one, send your real email addy to one of us
>> and we'll send a copy. (I got sick and effin' tired of fighting spam,
>> pukey ducks, christmas sh*t, and virii in ABPF so I don't frequent it
>> any longer.)
>
>The Morris version is a much better design. You can see both the Ugly
>Liberty Sideboard and the Morris Liberty Sideboard at:
>
>http://www.cilia.org/~clarke/Craftsman
>
>Click on the links. It's easier to compare if you use Firefox and open both
>pictures in tabs, or open both in a new window with IE.
>
>The Morris version has a unifying feature with the supports on the side
>of the table and the display openings on the top shelf. These pieces seem
>to be designed to go together rather than just having a random bookcase
>stuck on as an afterthought.
>
I kind of agree. The Morris version falls under the category of "not in
my house", but I can see some of the features with which some people may
find it esthetically pleasing. The ugly version falls under the category
of "who on earth would want that thing in their house". You hit on a lot
of the things that make the difference, the lack of side supports make the
top on the ugly sideboard "disturbing" while it seems to be a part of the
Morris design.
>I'm not sure, but the Ugly version seems to have the base door on the
>right opening as in an oven. The hinges are on the bottom? What's that
>all about?
>
That nails another disturbing element; the bottom of the ugly design is
disturbingly assymetric and makes the bottom rail appear to be uneven and
poorly constructed. That more than likely is not the case, but the design
supports the illusion that the bottom rail is not straight.
>The round bulls-eye glass in the center door on the Ugly bookcase part
>do not seem to be a good feature. You can't see through the bulls-eyes
>and there's no light behind them so why even use glass? The 4 over 4
>glass on the Morris piece let you use the center as a display cabinet.
I'm not sure if it is the bulls-eye glass that is disturbing so much as
the proportions between the top and bottom shelves, and the short, wide
rectangular dimension of the center door that don't "fit". I'm not sure,
but I'm almost willing to bet that the bulls-eye glass wouldn't look half
bad on the Morris design.
But then what do I know, I'm an engineer commenting on artistic esthetics
:-)
BTW, thanks for posting both pictures, I set up Mozilla in two windows to
let me alternate between them.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:15:08 -0800, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:53:22 -0700, the inscrutable Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> spake:
>
>>On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:57:25 -0800, Larry Jaques
>><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You're right, Leon. Those are really nicely designed.
>>>
>>>Agreed, but it's more decorative, more of a G&G + Roycroft influence.
>>
>> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
>><http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buffet.html>
>>to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
>
>I think I'd like it better in fumed white oak. It's reminiscent of the
>Liberty sideboard which I liked but wouldn't want in my home. This is
>similar: http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/1111/1027_1_md.jpg
>
>
Man, Larry, going from bad to worse. I'm sure the craftsmanship is
outstanding, but nothing on that piece flows well. The base looks like a
reasonably elegant tapered piece was trying to grow, but got crushed by a
falling flat table with a shelf on top of it before the base had a chance
to mature.
> ---
> - Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
> http://diversify.com Web Applications
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:35:38 -0700, the inscrutable Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> spake:
>>> Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
>>><http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buffet.html>
>>>to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
>>
>>I think I'd like it better in fumed white oak. It's reminiscent of the
>>Liberty sideboard which I liked but wouldn't want in my home. This is
>>similar: http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/1111/1027_1_md.jpg
>
> Man, Larry, going from bad to worse. I'm sure the craftsmanship is
>outstanding, but nothing on that piece flows well. The base looks like a
>reasonably elegant tapered piece was trying to grow, but got crushed by a
>falling flat table with a shelf on top of it before the base had a chance
>to mature.
Let's see what Ed has to say about the other one in the pic I emailed
to him. If he likes that one, send your real email addy to one of us
and we'll send a copy. (I got sick and effin' tired of fighting spam,
pukey ducks, christmas sh*t, and virii in ABPF so I don't frequent it
any longer.)
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:57:25 -0800, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:26:14 -0600, the inscrutable Patriarch
><[email protected]> spake:
>
>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> You might fine this fellows work very nice. Expensive but has a
>>> Mission look to it.
>>> http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/_casework.html
>>>
>>
>>You're right, Leon. Those are really nicely designed.
>
>Agreed, but it's more decorative, more of a G&G + Roycroft influence.
>
>
Maybe it's just me, but I find the Treter Buffet
<http://www.io.com/~colca/Home_Furniture/_Casework/Tretter_Buffet/tretter_buffet.html>
to be pretty much gluteous ugly.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Rob Mitchell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm just finishing a small night table for my daughter. Materials (elm)
> cost me about $50. Labour, I don't even want to think about it, but many
> hours, 'cause I'm really slow. Today I was in Borg and saw a completely
> finished night table, solid wood marked down for $45.
>
> Materials $50
> New Table saw $2000
> 'I love you Daddy'...priceless!
The most valuable part of anything that you build is that part of you that
goes into it. Never sell yourself short.
On 26 Feb 2005 00:00:26 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
<[email protected]> spake:
>On 2005-02-25, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di> wrote:
>
>> I think I'd like it better in fumed white oak. It's reminiscent of the
>> Liberty sideboard which I liked but wouldn't want in my home. This is
>> similar: http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive/1111/1027_1_md.jpg
>
>That thing looks like someone cut the top off of another piece and glued
>it to a table. At the time these were made I think that opium and cocaine
>were legal. Is this design an Arts & Crafts example of the result of
>recreational drug use?
I'll see if I can find that nicer Liberty sideboard/hutch and email
the pic to you. Is that email addy valid?
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications