WAAAY OT: Third-hand smoke toxicity

"stoutman Feb 18, 8:45 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: "stoutman" <[email protected]> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 GMT
Local: Fri, Feb 18 2005 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: WAAAY OT: Third-hand smoke toxicity

Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette
smoke
related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What
would
you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful
death
from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit
worrying
about the petty things."


Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
DIFFERENCE."

Not always, but, in fact, Phil was asking about the simple aroma of a
cigar or tobacco shop. It seems like to me his wife has picked up a
fearful fantasy somewhere or other. There's a lot of difference between
smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, and being exposed to the aroma of a
cigar in someone's hair or clothing. As a former 3-1/2 pack a day
smoker, I can tell you I don't like the smell of ANY smokable substance
after it has been lit, but I also don't figure someone else's hygiene
problems will affect my health--short of creating a transferance of
fleas or some such.

[email protected] wrote:
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke
is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read
a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of
chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would
be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow

Well, it seems as though I was right.

Unfortunately, I think (read: am absofuckinglutley sure) that it's the
smell that she doesn't like (read: absofuckinglutely hates) and I'm
certainly not going to change her mind on that score, so it's into the
garage with me after work.

I saw an episode of Law & Order once where the judge overturned some
decision or something and Jack McCoy was furious about it, and the
judge said, "It's not about being right. It's about _doing_ right."

So there.

Thanks, everyone, for the input.

-Phil Crow

Hi Phil,

Google "Michael Fumento" Hudson Institute and you will
find all the information you want that proves ETS
(Environmental Tobacco Smoke), while awful is
basically harmless.

Here is a link to get you started:

http://www.fumento.com/disease/smoking.html

Lou
(non-smoker for 30+ years now
but hates PC crap)

> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow
>

"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob Bowles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Brought to mind the woman in steno-pool that wore the same wool suit
> > for a month without bathing. Merely added more perfume daily on top
> > of she already had. Gawd I don't miss that! Late 1940s in San
> > Francisco financial district.
> >
>
> Ever been to Europe? Or worse, USSR. Climbing into the cockpit with a
> Soviet crew after a week in Cuba was an experience you'd never forget.
>
>

The French - they're just terrible about this stuff. It would take them far
less effort to just take a damned shower than it does for them to cover up
the growing stench with more cologne.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Fri, Feb 18, 2005, 8:07pm (EST-3) [email protected] claims:
<snip> Her position is <snip>

Perhaps she just doesn't want to come right out and tell you that
she's going to bludgeon you to death if you continue.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

Fri, Feb 18, 2005, 8:07pm (EST-3) [email protected] cites:
<snip> the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. <snip>

Let me add to my previous post.

I quit smoking many years ago. Twice. Had been up to 5+ packs a
day (so that, "I'm such a heavy smoker", at a pack a day, is just a load
of crap). Now if I'm around any smoke at all, my system shuts down.
Feels like my lungs start filling up with liquid, and I can't breathe.
Just the smell of tobacco smoke on someone's clothing is horrible to me
anymore. So, even if she is wrong on the health part, she could still
have a valid point. Or, you could continue, until she blugeoons you to
death.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> No, I'm implying that we're all exposed to some amounts of natural and
> unnatural carcinogens and unless you want to spend your life in a bubble
> pack to [possibly] delay the moment of your death by a few seconds or
> minutes, you shouldn't worry about it. The bad attitude is one that is
> unable to apply perspective to risk.
>
I missed the beginning of this one, but:

Several years ago, our newspaper published a study which, for the one
and only time I've ever seen it, included some real numbers.

According to the study (by NIH, IIRC), exposure to secondhand smoke for
8 hours a day over a working life of 40 years increased your chances of
getting lung cancer by 1 in 10,000. WOW!

Now I don't know how accurate it was, and I've never seen any other
numbers to either confirm it or refute it. But if true, we've spent a
lot of time and effort to correct a minor risk.

A friend of mine pointed out that he didn't care, he just didn't like to
smell the stuff. At least that's a valid reason :-).

And no, I don't smoke. Well, my cardiologist does allow me one cigar a
month. He says that's not smoking, as far as my health is concerned.
I've been doing that for 8 years now with no addiction problem causing
me to increase the number.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

On 18 Feb 2005 20:07:01 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
>Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
>shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
>in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
>dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
>tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
>me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
>in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
>dangerous to her health.
>
>If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
>it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
>pretty okay too.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Phil Crow

Check out
<http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=second+hand+smoke&fr=yscpb&vs=www.junkscience.com>

Quoting one comment regarding Health Canada study link between second
hand smoke and breast cancer, "Epidemiology studies on second-hand smoke
rely on statistics rather than scientific experiments. While statistical
studies can be helpful in identifying cause-and-effect relationships, the
statistical associations must be strong. Smoking was linked to lung cancer
because populations of heavy smokers had about 1,000% more lung cancer than
non-smoking populations. Weak statistical associations, though, are open to
question.
Among epidemiologists, statistical associations purporting to represent
increases in risk of 100% or less are considered 'weak associations.' As
the U.S. National Cancer Institute said about an earlier study on abortion
and breast cancer, 'In epidemiologic research, [risks of less than 100%]
are considered small and usually difficult to interpret. Such increases may
be due to chance, statistical bias or effects of confounding factors that
are sometimes not evident.'

The statistical associations in the Health Canada study are weak. And it
has other shortcomings. "

From yet another (a 1998 article), "There are many good reasons to avoid
secondhand smoke. It stinks. It lingers. It irritates. But contrary to
popular wisdom and anti-tobacco propaganda, there is little solid evidence
that it kills. Last week, a federal judge threw out a widely touted study
by the Environmental Protection Agency that declared secondhand tobacco
smoke a Class A carcinogen in 1993. The EPA report used dubious statistical
methods to conclude that passive smoke causes 3,000 lung-cancer deaths per
year. The ruling affirms what respected epidemiologists and
biostatisticians have said for five years: EPA used political science, not
sound science, to arrive at its ominous numbers."



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Have her read Michael Crichton's "State of Fear".

Dave


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow
>



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"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fri, Feb 18, 2005, 8:07pm (EST-3) [email protected] cites:
> <snip> the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. <snip>
>

> I quit smoking many years ago. Twice. Had been up to 5+ packs a
> day (so that, "I'm such a heavy smoker", at a pack a day, is just a load
> of crap). Now if I'm around any smoke at all, my system shuts down.
> Feels like my lungs start filling up with liquid, and I can't breathe.
> Just the smell of tobacco smoke on someone's clothing is horrible to me
> anymore. So, even if she is wrong on the health part, she could still
> have a valid point. Or, you could continue, until she blugeoons you to
> death.
>

Distillation to reality.

You will be sleeping on the couch, or wake up in bed with a large scab where
your genitalia used to be if you try to tough it out. She is right, even
when she is wrong, because, like other things PC, the facts are meaningless
to a possessor of the truth.

My eldest son and I were waiting to enter the church for his wedding when he
asked me for "words of wisdom" from a man married, at that time a mere 34
years. The words that express the most wisdom are "yes dear."

"Bob Bowles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brought to mind the woman in steno-pool that wore the same wool suit
> for a month without bathing. Merely added more perfume daily on top
> of she already had. Gawd I don't miss that! Late 1940s in San
> Francisco financial district.
>

Ever been to Europe? Or worse, USSR. Climbing into the cockpit with a
Soviet crew after a week in Cuba was an experience you'd never forget.

If you can smell the smoke, it is getting into your lungs. Tobacco
smoke has about 50 toxic chemicals in it, including cyanide and
arsenic. Your wife is correct. To make peace you could change
clothes before entering the house and don't argue with the SWMBO.

On 18 Feb 2005 20:07:01 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
>Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
>shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
>in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
>dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
>tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
>me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
>in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
>dangerous to her health.
>
>If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
>it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
>pretty okay too.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Phil Crow

Brought to mind the woman in steno-pool that wore the same wool suit
for a month without bathing. Merely added more perfume daily on top
of she already had. Gawd I don't miss that! Late 1940s in San
Francisco financial district.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:53:57 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It feels good to get this rant off my chest. I've been meaning to find some
>reason to rant about this for ages. I guess it's one reason SWMBO and I
>have stuck together so long. I told her how badly such things affect me
>early on, and she stopped spraying herself with that glop. She's one of
>the few women I know who doesn't exude chemical foulness from her every
>pore. I appreciate her for giving up her perfumes for me, because I know
>women are into that crap.

"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What would
> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful death
> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
> about the petty things."
>
> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
DIFFERENCE.
>

You'd have to ask that question of someone who had a loved one die because
their spouse stopped by a smoking lounge on the way home from work and then
spread the dangerous toxins on to them when they arrived home. Doubtful you
can find the case study to support it, but that was what the OP was talking
about.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What would
> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful death
> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
> about the petty things."
>
> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
> DIFFERENCE.

And how you die absolutely is not going to be controlled by any decision
that you make. There are many smokers that die of other natural causes.

Glen wrote:

>> years. The words that express the most wisdom are "yes dear."
>>
>>
> In truth, the secret to a happy marriage is sincerity. Once you learn
> to fake that, you got it made.

Yup.

:)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"stoutman" wrote in message
> You wrote "Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to
any
> bad
> stuff, and still die?"
>
> You are implying that we should all go out and have a camel because hey,
we
> are all gonna die anyway. Bad atitude Doug.

Not at all. It's a matter of timing ... if I knew when it was going to
happen, at least one week before I would buy a carton, and a frozen
margarita machine for the kitchen.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"> I Get rid of it all and replace it with the scent of good cherry
> pipe tobacco. That would be a nice start.
>
> Disagree I prefer the scent of a good whisky Cavendish blend to cherry.
otherwise you have it pretty close to right.

Silvan wrote:
>> Glen wrote:
>>
>>>> years. The words that express the most wisdom are "yes dear."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In truth, the secret to a happy marriage is sincerity. Once you
>>> learn to fake that, you got it made.
>>
>> Yup.

No, the correct words are, "You're right, dear."

Josie

"Bob Bowles" wrote in message
> Brought to mind the woman in steno-pool that wore the same wool suit
> for a month without bathing. Merely added more perfume daily on top
> of she already had. Gawd I don't miss that! Late 1940s in San
> Francisco financial district.

A German, or French, nightclub, packed to the rafters with overheated
dancers, on a freezing winter night in the 60's and early 70's .. not for
the olfactory faint of heart.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

George wrote:

<snip>
>
> My eldest son and I were waiting to enter the church for his wedding when he
> asked me for "words of wisdom" from a man married, at that time a mere 34
> years. The words that express the most wisdom are "yes dear."
>
>
In truth, the secret to a happy marriage is sincerity. Once you learn
to fake that, you got it made.

;-)
Glen

Take a tip from the 18th century English Gentlemen: Get a smoking jacket
and hat and wear them when you smoke, leave them some where else when you
associate with the ladies so as to be inoffensive.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow
>

<[email protected]> wrote in message

> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.

That's one "discussion" that even if you win, you most likely lose.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

I am convinced women have a much more acute sense of smell than men. We
have this discussion about exhaust smell from lawnmowers and snow blowers.

My take is, reasonable or unreasonable, the smell bothers her. She is the
best thing to happen in my life, and if avoided smells makes her happier,
I'll do it. She does the same for me.

Logic, reason, and statistics have little place in this argument.

Walt C



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow
>

[email protected] wrote:

> decision or something and Jack McCoy was furious about it, and the
> judge said, "It's not about being right. It's about _doing_ right."

This whole thread makes me want to point out that I feel the same as your
wife does, except I feel that way about perfumes and artificial fragrances
of every flavor. Certain kinds of vanilla, and one berry-scented something
they don't make anymore, and oddly enough, Brut. Everything else from Old
Spice to Chanel #5 gives me a splitting headache moments after coming into
proximity with the repugnant vapors.

The world is filled with these horrible fake fragrances. I've even heard
limp wristed prancing little prissy boy perfume industry fragrance
designers assert that there is absolutely no difference between a fake
fragrance and a natural one. I assert that that is bullshit. Why don't
real flowers make my head hurt?

I couldn't care less about smokers, but if I had my way, I'd abolish the
entire artificial fragrance industry. No more perfume, deodorant (except
Brut), cologne, scented candles and plugins and air fresheners and
whatzits. Get rid of it all and replace it with the scent of good cherry
pipe tobacco. That would be a nice start.

It feels good to get this rant off my chest. I've been meaning to find some
reason to rant about this for ages. I guess it's one reason SWMBO and I
have stuck together so long. I told her how badly such things affect me
early on, and she stopped spraying herself with that glop. She's one of
the few women I know who doesn't exude chemical foulness from her every
pore. I appreciate her for giving up her perfumes for me, because I know
women are into that crap.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> And how you die absolutely is not going to be controlled by any decision
> that you make. There are many smokers that die of other natural causes.
>
>

Yes, but they're all listed as smoking related. Sure way to inflate stats.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Phil Crow
>

You're in trouble Phil. You can't win any discussion with a person who
takes things this far. She clearly hates everything related to smoking, and
that has the feel of a no-win battle ground. On the other hand, every
breath we take reduces the number of breaths left remaining to us in our
lives. Best not to breathe, and then that way we'll never hit that point of
breathing our last breath.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
EPA used political science, not
> sound science, to arrive at its ominous numbers."

Imagine that.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 GMT, "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
>related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What would
>you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful death
>from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
>about the petty things."
>
>Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the DIFFERENCE.
>
How about all the cows that develop lung cancer every year. How many
of them do you suppose smoked more than a pack a day? OTOH, maybe the
guy who ran the milking machine was a smoker and it was second-hand
smoke that did them in.

If all these cases of bovine lung cancer are caused by second-hand
smoke it wasn't from tobacco. Maybe from the eruption of Mt. St.
Helen's or any of the other volcanic eruptions which occur
periodically on our planet and spew more pollutants into the air than
a thousand years of cigarette smoke.

Go worry about a metiorite crashing into earth.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder."

Joe

Walt Cheever wrote:

> I am convinced women have a much more acute sense of smell than men. We
> have this discussion about exhaust smell from lawnmowers and snow blowers.
>
> My take is, reasonable or unreasonable, the smell bothers her. She is the
> best thing to happen in my life, and if avoided smells makes her happier,
> I'll do it. She does the same for me.
>
> Logic, reason, and statistics have little place in this argument.

Not "women". Individual women. And individual men. Consider the people
who get paid by perfume manufacturers to judge nuances of fragrance. Some
folks have noses dang near as good as a bloodhound.

> Walt C
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>>
>> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
>> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
>> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
>> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
>> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
>> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
>> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
>> dangerous to her health.
>>
>> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
>> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
>> pretty okay too.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Phil Crow
>>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

From someone who has died twice - I highly recommend taking a walk on the
wild side and the sooner the better. Although I don't consider third hand
smoke (who ever heard of this anyway?) gettin' wild and crazy - I think
Doug has the right attitude if not stated elequently enough for your taste.

Every morning when you walk out the door to go to work, you assume you will
return that evening. Guess what, for many people, that doesn't happen. And
yes, we all die of something.

I hug and kiss my wife and grandson every morning like it will be the last
time I ever see them - conciously.

You can lead the healthiest life possible and still get run over in a
crosswalk by a bus or have some asshole park his SUV in front of your train
or have a plane ram into your office, etc., etc. The media splashes stories
in front of us everyday about all kinds of stupid tragedies.
Go to any trauma unit and see if one person isn't in there not due to a
something stupid and not of there own fault - smoking included.

And what would be the difference what a parent died of when you have to
explain it to a little kid? Would you feel better explaing that mommy died
of breast cancer or daddy died of congestive heart failure? Doubtful the
kid will. Hopefully they won't grow up into a politician with a chip on
their shoulder (like one of our previous governors).

My two cents worth.
Mark

"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You wrote "Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to
any
> bad
> stuff, and still die?"
>
> You are implying that we should all go out and have a camel because hey,
we
> are all gonna die anyway. Bad atitude Doug.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 +0000, stoutman wrote:
> >
> >> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette
smoke
> >> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What
> >> would
> >> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful
> >> death
> >> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit
worrying
> >> about the petty things."
> >>
> >> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
> >> DIFFERENCE.
> >
> > From "third hand smoke" aka smoke smell? Get real - from a reformed
> > smoker. There's probably more chance of shortening one's life from
> > spraying weed-be-gone on your lawn than a whif of third hand smoke on
> > someone's clothes. Get over your PC syndrome and try to put a small
> > amount of perspective in your reasoning. The PC willys will probably
> > shorten your life from stress more than third hand smoke. And fer
Christ's
> > sake, never get close to a campfire and roast a marshmellow!
> >
> > - Doug
> >
> > --
> >
> > To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert
> > Hubbard)
> >
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke [snip]

Maybe she doesn't like smell?
After a few bowls of chili and a 6-pack of beer, I certainly won't fart
anywhere near my wife.
In fact, after a meal like that, I go to a cigar bar and fart. Who'd
know? Now I think about it, that would be inconsiderate, because some of
the patrons will have to go home at some point....


It's a complicated world.

0¿0

Rob----> who doesn't smoke and thinks that people who do, stink.

Disagree..it's a great attitude!! If I live my life correctly, all my parts
should be totally worn out at the same time and I'll just go... if one
single part still has life in it..I've done something wrong.

I've already started by removing body parts while practicing my favourite
hobby...I consider it an investment <g!>

It's kinda like having seat covers on the car...where you're uncomfortable
for the years you own it and you save the really good stuff for the next
guy. Or having carpet runners on your floors. What's the point? I buy a car
to sit in and use, I buy carpet to walk on and I have a body that will work
right up to the moment it doesn't, regardless what I do to it...

You're worried about third hand smoke? I s'pose you'd better quit barbequing
your steaks...or tofu. That charred stuff may be a carcinogen...

My $0.02 (CDN)

Rob

--


http://www.robswoodworking.com

"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You wrote "Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to
any
> bad
> stuff, and still die?"
>
> You are implying that we should all go out and have a camel because hey,
we
> are all gonna die anyway. Bad atitude Doug.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 +0000, stoutman wrote:
> >
> >> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette
smoke
> >> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What
> >> would
> >> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful
> >> death
> >> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit
worrying
> >> about the petty things."
> >>
> >> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
> >> DIFFERENCE.
> >
> > From "third hand smoke" aka smoke smell? Get real - from a reformed
> > smoker. There's probably more chance of shortening one's life from
> > spraying weed-be-gone on your lawn than a whif of third hand smoke on
> > someone's clothes. Get over your PC syndrome and try to put a small
> > amount of perspective in your reasoning. The PC willys will probably
> > shorten your life from stress more than third hand smoke. And fer
Christ's
> > sake, never get close to a campfire and roast a marshmellow!
> >
> > - Doug
> >
> > --
> >
> > To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert
> > Hubbard)
> >
>
>

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has to do with an ongoing, um, discussion with my wife.
>
> Her position is that a person, could be anyone, who goes to a tobacco
> shop after work for an hour and then comes home smelling like smoke is,
> in fact, exposing her to the bazillion toxins in cigar smoke. I read a
> dozen or so articles following a Google search, and from what I can
> tell, there's no direct evidence supporting that claim. My gut tells
> me that while she may theoretically be correct, the 1.8 ppm of chlorine
> in our tap water or a large fry from McD's would be at least as
> dangerous to her health.
>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate
> it. Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be
> pretty okay too.
>


Evidence or not, it doesn't matter. Smoke filled clothing especially from
cigars to a non smoker smells like shit. I would bet your wife is more
upset about you coming home and reeking up the joint. Buy some Febreese
(sp?) in the laundry detergent isle and spray it on your ripe self before
you walk in the front door.

Frank

Swingman wrote:

> Not at all. It's a matter of timing ... if I knew when it was going to
> happen, at least one week before I would buy a carton, and a frozen
> margarita machine for the kitchen.

Now there's an interesting thought. I remember some radio program a bit
back where the interviewer was talking to people in their 80s and 90s who
had decided to take up smoking again.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Doug Winterburn wrote:

> No, I'm implying that we're all exposed to some amounts of natural and
> unnatural carcinogens and unless you want to spend your life in a bubble
> pack to [possibly] delay the moment of your death by a few seconds or

Wouldn't work. The bubble would outgas carcinogens.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

>
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate it.
> Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be pretty
> okay too.

Ask her who she knows who isn't going to die - healthy or otherwise.
Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to any bad
stuff, and still die? So, enjoy yourself and quit worrying about the
petty things, because the final outcome ain't gonna change.

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 +0000, stoutman wrote:

> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What would
> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful death
> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
> about the petty things."
>
> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
> DIFFERENCE.

From "third hand smoke" aka smoke smell? Get real - from a reformed
smoker. There's probably more chance of shortening one's life from
spraying weed-be-gone on your lawn than a whif of third hand smoke on
someone's clothes. Get over your PC syndrome and try to put a small
amount of perspective in your reasoning. The PC willys will probably
shorten your life from stress more than third hand smoke. And fer Christ's
sake, never get close to a campfire and roast a marshmellow!

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:00:15 +0000, stoutman wrote:

> You wrote "Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to
> any bad
> stuff, and still die?"

>
> You are implying that we should all go out and have a camel because hey,
> we are all gonna die anyway. Bad atitude Doug.

No, I'm implying that we're all exposed to some amounts of natural and
unnatural carcinogens and unless you want to spend your life in a bubble
pack to [possibly] delay the moment of your death by a few seconds or
minutes, you shouldn't worry about it. The bad attitude is one that is
unable to apply perspective to risk.

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

Larry Blanchard wrote:

> And no, I don't smoke. Well, my cardiologist does allow me one cigar a
> month. He says that's not smoking, as far as my health is concerned.
> I've been doing that for 8 years now with no addiction problem causing
> me to increase the number.

I know a guy who smokes exactly two cigarettes a day, and has been doing
that for about 40 years. He's considered a "non-smoker" for life insurance
purposes, but his health insurance has him as a smoker.

I also knew a woman who died an extremely horrible and grizzly death from
lung cancer. She never smoked, wasn't around anything more than whatever
occasional environmental smoke she just couldn't avoid, didn't work in a
mill or a coal mine. She was only 52.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Doug Winterburn Wrote:
> -
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciat
> it.
> Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would b
> pretty
> okay too.-
>
> Ask her who she knows who isn't going to die - healthy or otherwise.
> Wouldn't it really **** you off to have never been exposed to any bad
> stuff, and still die? So, enjoy yourself and quit worrying about the
> petty things, because the final outcome ain't gonna change.
>
> - Doug
>
> --
>
> Thank you! To

--
tomeshew

Doug Winterburn Wrote:
> -
> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciat
> it.
> Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would b
> pretty
> okay too.-
>
> Ask her who she knows who isn't going to die - healthy or otherwise.
> Wouldn't it really **** you off to have never been exposed to any bad
> stuff, and still die? So, enjoy yourself and quit worrying about the
> petty things, because the final outcome ain't gonna change.
>
> - Doug
>
> --
>
> I thank you! To

--
tomeshew

Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What would
you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful death
from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
about the petty things."

Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the DIFFERENCE.





"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> If anyone has any direct evidence one way or t'other, I'd appreciate it.
>> Ah, hell, even if anyone has interesting anecdotes, those would be pretty
>> okay too.
>
> Ask her who she knows who isn't going to die - healthy or otherwise.
> Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to any bad
> stuff, and still die? So, enjoy yourself and quit worrying about the
> petty things, because the final outcome ain't gonna change.
>
> - Doug
>
> --
>
> To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert
> Hubbard)
>

>Among epidemiologists, statistical associations purporting to represent
>increases in risk of 100% or less are considered 'weak associations.' As
>the U.S. National Cancer Institute said about an earlier study on abortion
>and breast cancer, 'In epidemiologic research, [risks of less than 100%]
>are considered small and usually difficult to interpret. Such increases may
>be due to chance, statistical bias or effects of confounding factors that
>are sometimes not evident.'
>

Abortion being in any way harmful to the mother or to the unborn child
does not fit the liberal agenda. Ergo, any study linking increased
probability of breast cancer resulting from abortion had to be faulty.
If you rhink ir could be otherwise you do not understand liberalism.

Joe

"Liberalism is a mental disorder."

firstjois wrote:

> Silvan wrote:
>
>>>Glen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>years. The words that express the most wisdom are "yes dear."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In truth, the secret to a happy marriage is sincerity. Once you
>>>>learn to fake that, you got it made.
>>>
>>>Yup.
>
>
> No, the correct words are, "You're right, dear."
>
> Josie
>
>
I believe the three things a man must learn to say (while keeping a
straight face and solemn expression) are:
"Yes, dear."
"You're right, dear." and
"I'm sorry, dear."

All other verbiage is totally superfluous.

;-)
Glen

You wrote "Wouldn't it really piss you off to have never been exposed to any
bad
stuff, and still die?"

You are implying that we should all go out and have a camel because hey, we
are all gonna die anyway. Bad atitude Doug.





"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:45:14 +0000, stoutman wrote:
>
>> Why dont you ask that question to someone suffering from cigarette smoke
>> related emphysema or a child who lost a parent to lung cancer? What
>> would
>> you say to them? "Sure little Mikey, your mother is dying a painful
>> death
>> from lung cancer because she smoked a pack a day. But hey, quit worrying
>> about the petty things."
>>
>> Sure we are all gonna die, but its the how and why that make the
>> DIFFERENCE.
>
> From "third hand smoke" aka smoke smell? Get real - from a reformed
> smoker. There's probably more chance of shortening one's life from
> spraying weed-be-gone on your lawn than a whif of third hand smoke on
> someone's clothes. Get over your PC syndrome and try to put a small
> amount of perspective in your reasoning. The PC willys will probably
> shorten your life from stress more than third hand smoke. And fer Christ's
> sake, never get close to a campfire and roast a marshmellow!
>
> - Doug
>
> --
>
> To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert
> Hubbard)
>