I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
use it for?
In article <[email protected]>, Guess who
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:03:08 -0000, [email protected]
> (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
> >In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
> >castor oil,
>
> Hydrocarbon products are poisonous
So is castor oil.
--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B,
sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:26:39 GMT, Rick Cook
<[email protected]> wrote:
>LRod wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>I don't find the word 'gasoline' in either of those pages. I think
>you're being confused by the term 'gas' turbine.
I guess I am. Does that mean that the Chrysler concept car they built
in the '60s powered by a gas turbine wasn't gasoline powered either?
That's how long I've been laboring under that misapprehension.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
According to my Father-ln-Law you can use kerosene for everything. :-)
He cleans tools with it, removes tar with it, removes scuffs on his
bumpers with it, takes grass stains off the mower with it......the list
goes on. It's kinda like WD40. I'm sure there are folks who rub it on
sore joints too.
Refining wise it falls between Gasoline and Lubricating oils on the
chart of processing. It's a little cruder than Gas but more refined
than your 10W30 Pennzoil.
Oh yeah and it does make starting a fire in the woodstove easier.
(NOTE: Even though it burns slower don't over do it here. Remember
your eyebrows don't do much but just burn em off once and see how many
people notice)
Kerosene can be used in solution with water and applied with newspaper
to clean windows (on the outside, of course).
As a lubricant for clockworks (non-digital), put some on a feather to
oil the spring-driven mechanisms and gears.
There are camping lanterns and backpacking stoves that run on kerosene.
A bit harder to start, but safer than some other liquid fuels. Somewhat
more expensive, however and not quite as available as unleaded gasoline.
I remember as a kid my dad using it "for everything," too.
Cleaning greasy parts is NOT a suprise for me ... using it on rusty
tools I'll have to try - that's new to me. I used it quite
successfully to get the shipping paste off the cast iron tables of my
TS.
-Chris
Bob in Oregon wrote:
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is
also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> As such, it will:
> (1) function as a solvent for most hydro-carbon-based "goop" -- be
it
> tree-sap, coal-tar, Vasoline, asphalt, or whatever.
and is great as a lubricant for "oil-sharpening" stones.
In fact, IIRC Krenov used it. I've used it with the
carborundum rough grey stones and it works a treat.
> (2) combust readily -- much less volatile than 'gasoline', so you
don't
> have (at least not to anywhere nearly the same degree)
evaporation
> problem from unsealed containers. Well suited for lamps, etc.
with
> at least 'semi-open' fuel reservoir. Also for 'smudge pots',
used
> in fruit orchards, etc. to prevent frost damage.
I grew up with kero-fueled refrigerators, lamps and stoves.
The old pressure lamps worked a treat with it.
Back in those days in the middle of Africa there wasn't
another readily accessible and cheap source of power
aside from petrol.
> In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for
"medicinal"
> castor oil,
In Portugal, not too many years ago it was used
to help people with a persistent cough. In cases of TB,
asthma and others.
Swallowed a couple of mouthfulls of it as a kid (mid 1950s)
when I got into the fridge tank. Didn't harm much.
Would I survive it again? Most likely not: OH&S being what it is
nowadays, some well-intentioned moron has probably added poison to
kero to make it unpalatable or disgusting, for "safety" reasons...
> for any impurities that may have been in it. This makes it useful
for
> various kinds of 'cleaning' functions.
Yup. It is great on wheelnuts to make sure they don't "stick".
And I do remember seeing it used on rags at the school in
the machine shop, for all sorts of "quick wipes".
It is a great "rust stopper": leaves an oily residue.
.........snip....
>Oh yeah and it does make starting a fire in the woodstove easier.
>(NOTE: Even though it burns slower don't over do it here. Remember
>your eyebrows don't do much but just burn em off once and see how many
>people notice)
Ummm, would there be a *reason* you know all this detailed
information?
[just askin'] :-)
Let's just say experience and pain are wonderful educators. :-)
Fortunately this lesson was light on the pain.
Robert Bonomi remarks:
>>Petroleum distillates, in quantities of "less than a mouthful" are
well-
known *NOT* to be fatal, or even temporarily disabling. Proof is in
the
man, _MANY_, *thousands* of people who have ingested such over the
years,
from 'suck starting" a fuel syphon.<<
Oh, yeah. Ugh. Nasty, and every burp for hours tastes like gasoline,
but it sure isn't fatal (kept me afraid to light a cigarette for two
days, though). Or if it is fatal, it is sure slow acting: more than 50
years since I tried that one.
George responds:
>>Ugh. Nasty, and every burp for hours tastes like gasoline,
> but it sure isn't fatal (kept me afraid to light a cigarette for two
> days, though). Or if it is fatal, it is sure slow acting: more than
50
> years since I tried that one.
Oklahoma Credit Card.... <<
Well, hell. I've got family in Oklahoma somewhere, but I haven't heard
from them in 50 years, either. But my CC was in Westchester County,
NY...specifically, just outside Katonah.
In article <[email protected]>,
Bob in Oregon <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
>
Technically, kerosene is a "light petroleum distillate".
As such, it will:
(1) function as a solvent for most hydro-carbon-based "goop" -- be it
tree-sap, coal-tar, Vasoline, asphalt, or whatever.
(2) combust readily -- much less volatile than 'gasoline', so you don't
have (at least not to anywhere nearly the same degree) evaporation
problem from unsealed containers. Well suited for lamps, etc. with
at least 'semi-open' fuel reservoir. Also for 'smudge pots', used
in fruit orchards, etc. to prevent frost damage.
(3) function as a lubricant. It _is_ an oil -- it *does* have lubricating
properties.
In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
castor oil,
It is a "volatile" hydro-carbon. Given time, it _does_ 'evaporate', except
for any impurities that may have been in it. This makes it useful for
various kinds of 'cleaning' functions.
In article <[email protected]>,
Guess who <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:03:08 -0000, [email protected]
>(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
>>castor oil,
>
>Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic.
So? In sufficient quantity, *anything* will kill you. Common 'table salt',
for one example. Or even pure oxygen.
And *everybody* that gets _any_ form of cancer has been found to have
consumed large quantities of Dihydrogen Oxide.
> If you make a
>statement like that, you need to supply the source.
I state as absolute fact that people *do* so use it. A fact that is
trivially easy to verify by consulting compendiums of 'folk remedies',
"patent medicines", "nostrums", etc.
> Otherwise it's
>unconscionable, and please define "small dose" in the event that
>anyone who takes you at your word decides to give it a try on their
>mother in law or little brother.
A great many medications -- be they "prescription", "over the counter",
or 'folk' remedies -- are well-known poisons. Used in 'palliative' doses,
they are not harmful to humans, while *killing* less-resistant, lower-
order, creatures.
I did not state that it was a 'desirable' substitute, nor that I
recommend such use.
Petroleum distillates, in quantities of "less than a mouthful" are well-
known *NOT* to be fatal, or even temporarily disabling. Proof is in the
man, _MANY_, *thousands* of people who have ingested such over the years,
from 'suck starting" a fuel syphon.
J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
> Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
> driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
> about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
Niel ;-)
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:03:08 -0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
>castor oil,
Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic. If you make a
statement like that, you need to supply the source. Otherwise it's
unconscionable, and please define "small dose" in the event that
anyone who takes you at your word decides to give it a try on their
mother in law or little brother.
Years ago, working for the highway dept. we used it to start brush
fires. Poured it in a used tire with some rags then lit it. At times
when the fire was sluggish, dumped it right on.
Oh, those were tha days.
Joe
Bob in Oregon wrote:
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
The BEST material for cleaning packing grease off new tools. Bottom
feeders may ignore this advice, since they'll never have packing
grease to remove.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
I am allergic to kerosene. Can not be in a house heated with it.
-Dan V.
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:48:15 -0700, "bole2cant"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bob in Oregon"
>> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>> use it for?
>
>I can't answer your questions but want to point out that NOTHING stinks worse
>than OLD kerosene--as in a lamp.
>
>Long story short, we had a lamp on the mantle for about five years. Thought the
>(slight) stink was from soil/plants or insulation in old house. Moved. Stink
>followed. Finally discovered stink coming out of tall lamp chimney. Wife dumped
>it out onto paper towels to dispose of it. I couldn't breathe. Had to leave the
>house. Took three days to air out the house.
>
>-Doug
>
>
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:09:18 GMT, Joe_Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> Years ago, working for the highway dept. we used it to start brush
> fires. Poured it in a used tire with some rags then lit it. At times
> when the fire was sluggish, dumped it right on.
> Oh, those were tha days.
Works well in a bale of straw as well, and doesn't piss off the EPA
and neighbors.
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:43:14 -0500, Guess who <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:03:08 -0000, [email protected]
> (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
>>castor oil,
>
> Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic.
That's quite an overgeneralization. Vegetable oil is, after all, _a_
hydrocarbon.
> If you make a
> statement like that, you need to supply the source.
Ironic to see that posted by someone calling themselves "guess who".
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>> Yeah, but ours actually ran more than 50 miles between mechanic's
>>>sessions. :-)
>>>
>>>[As a former owner of a Sterling, I can say that]
>>>
>
> Umm, yep, my point exactly. My Sterling was a dream to drive, too.
> Great pickup, smooth ride, nice amenities -- problem was I spent most of my
> time enjoying all that on the trips to the repair shop. Rover mechanicals
> with Lucas electronics -- there's a combination made in [not] heaven.
>
I'm a LAND-rover man and brit biker, I KNOW about the prince of darkness!
Niel.
Al Palmer wrote:
> I use in on my sharpening stones. For me, it works better than
> traditional cutting oil or 10 W 30.
>
>
My woodcarving instructor used half kerosene and half motor
oil on his stones.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
Football is to higher education what
bullfighting is to agriculture.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Bob in Oregon wrote:
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
Back in the old days on the farm they used it on cuts. You
would think it would sting but it really has a soothing warm
feel. A couple drops on a spoonful of sugar was used for croup.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
Football is to higher education what
bullfighting is to agriculture.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>
> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
ships.
> >> Mark
>
> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
> >
> >
> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>
Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be back
to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
> >
> >Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
back
> >to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>
> Nevertheless, that was my recollection, too. But, this is the
> internet, so I took a look. Read 'em and weep:
>
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm
>
> http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
>
> >One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
>
> Nevertheless...
"Gas" is a state of matter. Gasoline is a distillate fraction. Jet
engines - like the Abrams - are "gas turbine" engines.
LRod wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:26:39 GMT, Rick Cook
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >LRod wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >I don't find the word 'gasoline' in either of those pages. I think
> >you're being confused by the term 'gas' turbine.
>
> I guess I am. Does that mean that the Chrysler concept car they built
> in the '60s powered by a gas turbine wasn't gasoline powered either?
> That's how long I've been laboring under that misapprehension.
No, one doesn't preclude the other...I believe the Chrysler was
gasoline-fueled--I recall it was on campus while I was in school at
Engineer's Open House weekend (but I was a NucE, so was on the other end
of the engineering campus and it was already gone by the time I got
there... :(
"good ol' Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You are correct sir! Gas turbine doesn't mean gasoline fueled. And jet
> fuel is kerosene...I flew 'em for years.
>
>
Didja burn JP7? Departs a bunch from kerosene.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robert Bonomi remarks:
> >>Petroleum distillates, in quantities of "less than a mouthful" are
> well-
> known *NOT* to be fatal, or even temporarily disabling. Proof is in
> the
> man, _MANY_, *thousands* of people who have ingested such over the
> years,
> from 'suck starting" a fuel syphon.<<
>
> Oh, yeah. Ugh. Nasty, and every burp for hours tastes like gasoline,
> but it sure isn't fatal (kept me afraid to light a cigarette for two
> days, though). Or if it is fatal, it is sure slow acting: more than 50
> years since I tried that one.
>
Oklahoma Credit Card....
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 12 Mar 2005 06:05:28 -0800, the inscrutable "Charlie Self"
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
> >George responds:
> >
> >Oklahoma Credit Card.... <<
> After watching other people do it all the time (and having done it
> once myself) I designed a foolproof siphon system which guaranteed
> that I ended up with no gas in the mouth. I took a rubber toilet float
> and punched two holes in the top. Into the smaller hole I placed a
> piece of 3/8" aquarium hose. Into the larger hole I placed the 7'
> piece of stiff garden hose. Place the hose in the tank, slide the
> "stopper" to the filler, and blow. You can put enough pressure
> differential into the larger hose to get it to flow instantly without
> risk of "fume mouth". I used it to fill my lawnmower gas cans.
>
The make 'em with pump and valve nowadays, but that's for sissies. The
excitement of ripping a quick five gallons in a poorly-lit parking lot would
be much less if you couldn't get a mouthful from hyperventilation....
The Oklahoma reference I learned from Texans. Here they're also referred to
as Finnish credit cards.
"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> CW wrote:
>
> > Pull your head out and explain yourself, if you can (doubtful).
> >
> Only going by what my onsite chemist who did the spectra for wd40 (bulk
> not spray) whilst trying to eliminate a problem told me.
>
Those lyin' sacks of shinola! They say Stoddard solvent is the primary
ingredient. That's mineral spirits, isn't it?
http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_bulk.us.pdf
I too use kerosene for removing light rust. With a rag lightly
dampened with kerosene you can wipe all your tools to keep them from
rusting. Kerosene has many uses. It is effective in removing tar
from vehicle finishes, without harming the paint. I've used it to
remove paint/finish from my hands. Best of all, kerosene is has very
low toxicity.
It was somewhere outside Barstow when Rick Cook
<[email protected]> wrote:
>IIRC the Chrysler turbine cars burned gasoline.
The "production" batch did, although only unleaded. Leaded gas caused
a problem with the regenerator seals. The interesting part of the
Chrysler wasn't that they built a jet car (Rover had done it 13 years
earlier), or even that they had this large test program with "normal"
drivers, but it was that they'd managed to build a car-sized turbine
with a regenerator.
The other Chryslers though, like the Firebird, the prototype Charger
and the race-trim Ghia that was used in the film "The Lively Set"
(awful film, but worth watching for the turbine car) burned Jet A-1
(kerosene).
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
Kerosene is a petroleum product very similar to jet fuel, diesel fuel,
and home heating oil.
I use it to remove cosmoline, heat the shop, degrease bicycle chains
and machine parts, lubricate burnishing tools on scrapers, and many
other things.
At work, we power our huge emergency diesel generators with it, as
it's cleaner burning than diesel. Kerosene produces slightly less
power than diesel fuel, and the engines need to be retuned (once) to
burn it, but it keeps the EPA and neighbors happy.
I buy it 5 gallons at a time at local gas stations, and at the end of
the heating season, I dump the remainder in my home fuel oil tank, a
practice endorsed by both my independent burner service dude and my
oil provider. Kerosene can go stale in time, making burning it a bit
stinky. Fresh fuel burns much cleaner with very little smell.
Water white K1 kerosene is much cleaner burning in stoves and lamps
than the dyed version.
Barry
George wrote:
> Those lyin' sacks of shinola! They say Stoddard solvent is the primary
> ingredient. That's mineral spirits, isn't it?
SFWIW, Stoddard solvent is the standard calibration fluid used to
calibrate carburetors, back when the rebuilt them.
Had the closest properties to gasoline without being explosive.
Lew
>> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as ships.
>> Mark
> Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
>
>
I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
Also an engineer told me that years ago.
--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On 9 Mar 2005 09:07:07 -0800, "IBM5081" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Kerosene can be used in solution with water and applied with newspaper
>to clean windows (on the outside, of course).
It won't be a solution. At best it would be an emulsion, but, the real
reason for my post...
>As a lubricant for clockworks (non-digital), put some on a feather to
>oil the spring-driven mechanisms and gears.
Clarify where you're putting that oil. Do NOT apply it to the teeth of
the gears. At most apply it to the bearings of the gears. Putting it
on the teeth assures a gathering of dust and subsequent grinding, er,
uh, of teeth.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
All this talk about petroleum constituents! I majored in college
chemistry so I have some idea. All these products are a complicated
mix of various alkanes in various lengths. Petroleum is separated in
a distillation by various fractions by using temperature. The higher
the temperature, the thicker the liquid and the higher the boiling
point. First, gas is removed, then ether, naphtha, gasoline,
kerosene, gas oil (diesel fuel), lubricating oil, then petroleum
solids. Crude oil is used to make many products.
I keep a small amount of kerosene, rubbing alcohol, WD-40, lithium
grease, paraffin, and household oil in the shop, but NOT gasoline!
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
kerosene, jet fuel and diesel fuel are *more or less* the same thing.
reasonal substitutes for shop tasks like degreasing parts are paint
thinner and turpentine. and WD40. the same stuffs are sold as lamp
oil, parts degreaser and prolly under a bunch of other labels.
all of the above are fairly oily solvents and can be loosely
interchanged. I wouldn't put turpentine in my jet engine or thin paint
with WD40, but they will all work fine for unsticking rusty bolts.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when [email protected] wrote:
>
>>They are turbine powered but a turbine will run on anything that
>>burns. Gas, diesel, alcohol, paint thinner, jet fuel, if you can light
>>it an M1 will run on it.
>
> You can't get any (AFAIK) US-designed production gas turbine to run on
> petrol (gasoline) Some of the late '50s Armstrong-Siddeley burner
> designs (as used in the Beryl or Sapphire) could be run on petrol, but
> this was known to be hazardous.
>
> If by "gas" you mean LPG (propane) then this is quite easy - easier to
> get started than kerosene - which is why most of the model jet
> builders use it.
>
> For natural gas (methane) then this is a significant market for
> turboshaft engines - they're used to power pipeline compressors, using
> some of the product as fuel. These have quite extensively modified
> fuel systems though.
Turbojet, turbofan, gas turbine engines will most definitely run on
gasoline. When this becomes necessary by circumstances, there are
limitations imposed on the operating parameters of the engine. These
ordinarily would include power settings, and time of operation while using
gasoline as fuel, etc. to avoid affecting the TBO (time between overhauls)
of the engine in question.
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>> >
>> >Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
> back
>> >to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>>
>> Nevertheless, that was my recollection, too. But, this is the
>> internet, so I took a look. Read 'em and weep:
>>
>> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm
>>
>> http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
>>
>> >One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
>>
>> Nevertheless...
>
> "Gas" is a state of matter. Gasoline is a distillate fraction. Jet
> engines - like the Abrams - are "gas turbine" engines.
You are correct sir! Gas turbine doesn't mean gasoline fueled. And jet
fuel is kerosene...I flew 'em for years.
AAvK wrote:
>>>be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as ships.
>>>Mark
>
>
>>Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
>>
>>
>
> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>
M1A1 turbines are multi-fuel. They'll burn just about any combustible
liquid.
--RC
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>
> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
ships.
> >> Mark
>
> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
> >
> >
> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>
> --
> Alex
> cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
> not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
>
>
You are not going to believe this one..
Back on the mid 60's my mother had to go into the hospital to have eye
surgery. She remained in the hospital for a couple of weeks and had an
elderly lady as a room mate for about 1 week. While visiting my mother a
nurse came into the room to prep the elderly lady for her eye surgery and
wanted to collect her jewelry and false teeth. The lady looked to be about
102 to me but was probably in her 70's. Any way the lady responded that the
had no false teeth and had never lost any teeth. The nurse being very
surprised inquired how she could possibly have never lost any teeth for as
long as she had lived. The elderly lady's reply was that every day she
rinsed her mouth out with kerosene.
"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
<<IIRC the Chrysler turbine cars burned gasoline. But it's been a long
time since I've been around one.>>
They did burn gasoline but they also burned a wide variety of other fuels.
There was a family in my town that had one and I remember that was one of
the big selling points. Here's a paragraph from what I believe is
Chrysler's press literature about the car:
"The present performance and economy of the Turbine are comparable to a
conventional car with a standard V-8 engine. The engine will operate
satisfactorily on diesel fuel, kerosene, unleaded gasoline, JP-4 (jet fuel),
and mixtures thereof. And, even more interesting, it is possible to change
from one of these fuels to another without any changes or adjustments to the
engine. The users of the cars also will appreciate the many other advantages
of the turbine engine."
It really sucks that they destroyed the cars at the end of the project.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
LRod wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:26:39 GMT, Rick Cook
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>LRod wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't find the word 'gasoline' in either of those pages. I think
>>you're being confused by the term 'gas' turbine.
>
>
> I guess I am. Does that mean that the Chrysler concept car they built
> in the '60s powered by a gas turbine wasn't gasoline powered either?
> That's how long I've been laboring under that misapprehension.
>
IIRC the Chrysler turbine cars burned gasoline. But it's been a long
time since I've been around one.
--RC
J. Clarke wrote:
> Rick Cook wrote:
>
>
>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>Badger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>>>>>driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>>>>>about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>>>>
>>>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>>>
>>>
>>>That mothers were using to drive their kids to school? The Chrysler
>>>wasn't a prototype, it was a production car.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Niel ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>Since they only built about 50 of them and never sold any, I don't think
>>the term 'production' applies.
>
>
> They were in the hands of ordinary citizens and driven daily for several
> years and there are in fact still several of them in private hands. They
> were as much "production cars" as some models of Ferrari.
How did they end up in private hands? GM didn't sell them and I thought
they destroyed them all after the program ended. <sob!> If any of them
still exist I'd love to see one again.
BTW: I think you're wrong about the Ferrari. IIRC they had to produce a
minimum number, something like a hundred, to qualify for GT racing. The
Formula Ones and such were a different matter, of course.
> So how may Rovers were in private hands, ever?
None, of course. Those were purely experimental, like some of the
'turbine cars' a few people built in the 60s using military surplus
turbines.
--RC
In any country.
"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> CW wrote:
> > Wrong.
> >
> maybe in your country...
"IBM5081" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
| Kerosene can be used in solution with water and applied with newspaper
| to clean windows (on the outside, of course).
| As a lubricant for clockworks (non-digital), put some on a feather to
| oil the spring-driven mechanisms and gears.
| There are camping lanterns and backpacking stoves that run on =
kerosene.
| A bit harder to start, but safer than some other liquid fuels. =
Somewhat
| more expensive, however and not quite as available as unleaded =
gasoline.
|=20
Don't forget, kerosene is very effective when using it to wash one's =
hair.
Kills lice and nits dead.
--=20
PDQ
--
When my grandmother was a kid she used to work summers peeling bark from
spruce trees destined for pulp mills. Anyway they used to mix kerosene with
bacon fat/grease and rub it on themselves as a mosquitoes/ blackfly
repellent.
"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
RE: Subject
Diesel #1 AKA: Kerosene
Jet Fuel A, essentially super filtered Kerosene.
Diesel #2: The basic fuel of the transportation industry.
Diesel #6: AKA Bunker "C", basic fuel of the marine industry. Must be
heated to reduce the viscosity to a point where it came be pumped.
Years ago, Bunker "C" was burned to generate steam which then was used
to power a turbine to drive the ship's propeller.
Today, many ships use direct diesel engine power.
As far as the Chrysler turbine car is concerned, the one I saw in the
Chrysler lab at the old Highland Park facility was definitely gasoline
powered.
It was the propulsion system, not necessarily the fuel system, that was
of interest back in those days.
Chrysler was on the edge of going into deep doo-doo and was looking for
a magic bullet of some kind.
Lew
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>>
>>"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>>>
>>> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
>>ships.
>>> >> Mark
>>>
>>> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2
>>> > diesel.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not
>>> diesel.
>>> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>>>
>>
>>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
>>back
>>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>
FWIW the M60- A1,-A2-A3 were all diesel powered. They were the main battle
tank up until about 1991 or so. You didn't want to be any where near the
exhaust when they started up or you would be covered with soot. I know zilch
about the M1Al.
Larry SP4
3/51 Inf, 4th Armd Div '66-'68 Ferris Barracks, Germany
Bob in Oregon wrote:
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
One nobody else mentioned. Trumpet valve oil. The clear type. Works, and
it's cheap. One big whateversize container of UltraPure is enough to keep
the valves on three trumpets humming for years.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Pull your head out and explain yourself, if you can (doubtful).
"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> CW wrote:
>
> > In any country.
>
> Wrong
J. Clarke wrote:
> Badger wrote:
>
>
>>
>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>>>driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>>>about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>>
>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>
>
> That mothers were using to drive their kids to school? The Chrysler wasn't
> a prototype, it was a production car.
>
>
>>Niel ;-)
>
>
Since they only built about 50 of them and never sold any, I don't think
the term 'production' applies.
"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob in Oregon wrote:
>>
> Back in the old days on the farm they used it on cuts. You would think it
> would sting but it really has a soothing warm feel. A couple drops on a
> spoonful of sugar was used for croup.
Not really that long ago, I remember when I was kid, having a finger dipped
in kerosene then I got cut. IIRC the blood would not mix and would glob up.
Andy Dingley wrote:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when "AAvK" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
>
>
> Diesel, kerosene or jet fuel. These days most large military vehicles
> use mutli-fuel engines. Diesel is favoured because of the reduced fire
> hazard, but they're set up to burn pretty much anything. The Abrams
> is unusual in that it's one of the few front-line vehicles that
> _can't_ mutli-fuel like this. As of a couple of years back, the
> British Army is gasoline-free for any engines other than motorbikes
> and chainsaws, and they were looking at those too.
>
>
>>Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>
>
> He was a mechanic. An engineer would also know _why_ they don't run
> gas turbines on gasoline.
>
Actually the Abrams has a multi-fuel engine. Most sources also say it
can burn gasoline.
--RC
Jet fuel...no, really.
"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
On 9 Mar 2005 22:03:06 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
>>>castor oil,
>>
>> Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic.
>That's quite an overgeneralization. Vegetable oil is, after all, _a_
>hydrocarbon.
No it's not. It's a carbohydrate. That indicates further that you
don't know what you're talking about, and that people should be
cautious about your advice. Kerosene is a mixture of hydrocarbon
compounds.
>> If you make a
>> statement like that, you need to supply the source.
>
>Ironic to see that posted by someone calling themselves "guess who".
I don't want you in my email. That has nothing to do with the fact
that you make false statements here and don't defend them [I asked for
a reference to support your claim], but try to twist it into another
topic about preference for privacy.
Once more ...Do you have any reference to your claim about using it
instead of castor oil [which is a carbohydrate]? If not, you still
need to change your reply to avoid giving people dangerous advice.
I'll admit that if they take your advice they're not the sharpest
knife in the drawer, but you'd still be culpable. What you offer is
dangerous advice. Also, even "small enough amounts" add to large
amounts if taken over a period of time,as is done with castor oil.
Which reminds me, again, how small is "small enough" without getting
philosphical about it?
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:44:07 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines
They are turbine powered but a turbine will run on anything that
burns. Gas, diesel, alcohol, paint thinner, jet fuel, if you can light
it an M1 will run on it.
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
Lamps, as you suggest, and for heat: A portable kerosene stove
stopped us from freezing during one viscious winter storm. I also
happen to have an old Coleman lantern that will work of either white
gas or kerosene.
Reason? Cost = Cheap.
"Bob in Oregon"
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
I can't answer your questions but want to point out that NOTHING stinks worse
than OLD kerosene--as in a lamp.
Long story short, we had a lamp on the mantle for about five years. Thought the
(slight) stink was from soil/plants or insulation in old house. Moved. Stink
followed. Finally discovered stink coming out of tall lamp chimney. Wife dumped
it out onto paper towels to dispose of it. I couldn't breathe. Had to leave the
house. Took three days to air out the house.
-Doug
IBM5081 wrote:
> Kerosene can be used in solution with water and applied with newspaper
> to clean windows (on the outside, of course).
> As a lubricant for clockworks (non-digital), put some on a feather to
> oil the spring-driven mechanisms and gears.
> There are camping lanterns and backpacking stoves that run on kerosene.
> A bit harder to start, but safer than some other liquid fuels. Somewhat
> more expensive, however and not quite as available as unleaded gasoline.
Are you thinking of stoves that run only on kerosene or of the multifuel
stoves that run on just about anything that will flow through a pipe and
burn?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Guess who wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:03:08 -0000, [email protected]
> (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
>>castor oil,
>
> Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic. If you make a
> statement like that, you need to supply the source. Otherwise it's
> unconscionable, and please define "small dose" in the event that
> anyone who takes you at your word decides to give it a try on their
> mother in law or little brother.
You mean hydrocarbon products like estrogen and testosterone? A
"hydrocarbon" is any substance composed of hydrogen and carbon--there are
many hydrocarbons which are produced naturally in the human body. Some are
toxic, some are pretty much inert, some have very specific effects
necessary to life.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"good ol' Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jet fuel...no, really.
>
True, but it's refined a bit differently - like diesel has differnet grades
ranging from the "hi-test" that you buy at the pump to sludge that needs to
be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as ships.
Mark
> "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> > of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> > surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> > thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> > act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> > use it for?
> >
>
>
>> Diesel, kerosene or jet fuel. These days most large military vehicles
>> use mutli-fuel engines. Diesel is favoured because of the reduced fire
>> hazard, but they're set up to burn pretty much anything.
Diesel fuel, kerosene, and jet fuel are all pretty much the same
thing. Any engine that burns any of the above should run fine on any
other one, at least in the short term.
Lawrence L'Hote wrote:
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>>>>
>>>> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
>>>ships.
>>>> >> Mark
>>>>
>>>> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2
>>>> > diesel.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not
>>>> diesel.
>>>> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
>>>back
>>>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>>
>
> FWIW the M60- A1,-A2-A3 were all diesel powered. They were the main
> battle
> tank up until about 1991 or so. You didn't want to be any where near the
> exhaust when they started up or you would be covered with soot. I know
> zilch about the M1Al.
> Larry SP4
> 3/51 Inf, 4th Armd Div '66-'68 Ferris Barracks, Germany
The M1A1 has a purpose-made multifuel gas turbine. For the word straight
from the manufacturer see
<www.honeywellaerospace.com/pdf/AGT1500Turbine.pdf>.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Andy Dingley wrote:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when [email protected] wrote:
>
>>They are turbine powered but a turbine will run on anything that
>>burns. Gas, diesel, alcohol, paint thinner, jet fuel, if you can light
>>it an M1 will run on it.
>
> You can't get any (AFAIK) US-designed production gas turbine to run on
> petrol (gasoline) Some of the late '50s Armstrong-Siddeley burner
> designs (as used in the Beryl or Sapphire) could be run on petrol, but
> this was known to be hazardous.
Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
They did have a minor problem with leaded gasoline--the lead precipitated
out on the turbine which over the long term was badness, but was not
"hazardous".
The AGT1500 engine used in the Abrams is specifically rated to run on
diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, and marine diesel, or so says the manufacturer,
and will no doubt run on other fuels as well.
If by "production gas turbine" you mean commercial aircraft engines you are
probably correct, there is no real need for them to have this capability
and certification testing with nonstandard fuels would add a good deal to
the development cost.
> If by "gas" you mean LPG (propane) then this is quite easy - easier to
> get started than kerosene - which is why most of the model jet
> builders use it.
>
> For natural gas (methane) then this is a significant market for
> turboshaft engines - they're used to power pipeline compressors, using
> some of the product as fuel. These have quite extensively modified
> fuel systems though.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>> use it for?
>
> In rocketry, (F-1 Saturn V-style engines) the reaction (combustion of
> hydrogen and oxygen) is so violent,even when the propagation is
> moderated via coupled turbine pumps, that an additional component is
> introduced to moderate the burn....Kerosene.
F-1? F-1 was not a hydrogen-fueled rocket, it used kerosene and LOX.
> Is that cool or what?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Badger wrote:
>
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>
>> Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>> driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>> about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>
> Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
That mothers were using to drive their kids to school? The Chrysler wasn't
a prototype, it was a production car.
> Niel ;-)
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Rick Cook wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Badger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>>>>driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>>>>about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>>>
>>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>>
>>
>> That mothers were using to drive their kids to school? The Chrysler
>> wasn't a prototype, it was a production car.
>>
>>
>>>Niel ;-)
>>
>>
> Since they only built about 50 of them and never sold any, I don't think
> the term 'production' applies.
They were in the hands of ordinary citizens and driven daily for several
years and there are in fact still several of them in private hands. They
were as much "production cars" as some models of Ferrari.
So how may Rovers were in private hands, ever?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Rick Cook wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Rick Cook wrote:
>>
>>
>>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>>Badger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people
>>>>>>were driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run
>>>>>>on just about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were
>>>>>>demonstrated).
>>>>>
>>>>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That mothers were using to drive their kids to school? The Chrysler
>>>>wasn't a prototype, it was a production car.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Niel ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Since they only built about 50 of them and never sold any, I don't think
>>>the term 'production' applies.
>>
>>
>> They were in the hands of ordinary citizens and driven daily for several
>> years and there are in fact still several of them in private hands. They
>> were as much "production cars" as some models of Ferrari.
>
> How did they end up in private hands? GM didn't sell them
No, GM didn't sell them. GM didn't make them either. They were _CHRYSLER_
products, not General Motors.
> and I thought
> they destroyed them all after the program ended. <sob!> If any of them
> still exist I'd love to see one again.
Forty were destroyed--apparently it was some kind of tax thing--remember
that the bodywork was limited production from Ghia and the taxes might have
been substantial. That left ten--two belong to Chrysler, the remainder
were all sent to various museums, some of which subsequently sold them.
According to <http://www.turbinecar.com/where.htm> four of them are
currently in driveable condition including one of ones at Chrysler and one
that is privately held. And I'm annoyed with myself--I grew up in a small
town in Florida and moved out as soon as I could. According to one site I
visited there was a concours held in that town a while back and by golly
somebody drove up in a Chrysler turbine.
> BTW: I think you're wrong about the Ferrari. IIRC they had to produce a
> minimum number, something like a hundred, to qualify for GT racing. The
> Formula Ones and such were a different matter, of course.
Don't know the current rule but at one time it was 25. Ford had to do the
same with the Ford GT--I used to have a brochure for the homologation
version, which had power steering and air conditioning. But they wanted
something like $35K for it, which in the early '60s was a Hell of a lot of
money.
>> So how may Rovers were in private hands, ever?
>
> None, of course. Those were purely experimental, like some of the
> 'turbine cars' a few people built in the 60s using military surplus
> turbines.
Seems to me then that Chrysler has done a better job all around--they've
managed to get at least one guy on the road with a privately owned
Chrysler-built turbine car.
>
> --RC
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
CW wrote:
> The company and independent testers say differently. I'll go with them.
>
>>CW wrote:
>>
>>>Pull your head out and explain yourself, if you can (doubtful).
>>
>>Only going by what my onsite chemist who did the spectra for wd40 (bulk
>>not spray) whilst trying to eliminate a problem told me.
>>
>>Niel.
Up to you, though one group of users is convinced it's little more than
perfumed diesel, I'm sure of my chemist HERE at work.
Niel.
George wrote:
> Those lyin' sacks of shinola! They say Stoddard solvent is the primary
> ingredient. That's mineral spirits, isn't it?
>
> http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_bulk.us.pdf
As I said, different countries, different mixes, and a number of
rip-offs made with GKW. Perhaps I should ask for some genuine US wd40
for comparason?
Niel.
good ol' Bob wrote:
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
>>
>>back
>>
>>>>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>>>
>>>Nevertheless, that was my recollection, too. But, this is the
>>>internet, so I took a look. Read 'em and weep:
>>>
>>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm
>>>
>>>http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>>One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
>>>
>>>Nevertheless...
>>
>>"Gas" is a state of matter. Gasoline is a distillate fraction. Jet
>>engines - like the Abrams - are "gas turbine" engines.
>
>
> You are correct sir! Gas turbine doesn't mean gasoline fueled. And jet
> fuel is kerosene...I flew 'em for years.
>
>
Well, in checking this out I just ran across an interesting fact. JP-4,
the first generation jet fuel, isn't considered kerosene derived because
it's about half gasoline. The later grades of jet fuel are kerosene
derivatives.
For more than you'd ever want to know see:
usapc.army.mil/miscellaneous/JP-8%20The%20Single%20Fuel%20Forward%20Information%20Compendium.pdf
(and mind the line break)
--RC
In article <[email protected]>,
"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
In rocketry, (F-1 Saturn V-style engines) the reaction (combustion of
hydrogen and oxygen) is so violent,even when the propagation is
moderated via coupled turbine pumps, that an additional component is
introduced to moderate the burn....Kerosene.
Is that cool or what?
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> >> use it for?
> >
> > In rocketry, (F-1 Saturn V-style engines) the reaction (combustion of
> > hydrogen and oxygen) is so violent,even when the propagation is
> > moderated via coupled turbine pumps, that an additional component is
> > introduced to moderate the burn....Kerosene.
>
> F-1? F-1 was not a hydrogen-fueled rocket, it used kerosene and LOX.
I stand (sit) corrected. The hydrogen was for the J-2's. My mistake.
On 9 Mar 2005 08:40:24 -0800, "bremen68" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Remember your eyebrows don't do much but just burn em off once and see how many
>people notice)
The FUNNIEST line I've read here in years.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On 9 Mar 2005 08:40:24 -0800, "bremen68" <[email protected]> wrote:
... snip
>
>Oh yeah and it does make starting a fire in the woodstove easier.
>(NOTE: Even though it burns slower don't over do it here. Remember
>your eyebrows don't do much but just burn em off once and see how many
>people notice)
Ummm, would there be a *reason* you know all this detailed information?
[just askin'] :-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Gus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Obviously, you've never experienced that heady elixir known as
>Pyridine.
Here in the UK pyridine is used to make denatured alcohol smell too
bad to drink. This is a real drawback when working with shellac!
>Jet fuel...no, really.
#1 diesel fuel.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"good ol' Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jet fuel...no, really.
>
> "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> > of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> > surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> > thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> > act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> > use it for?
> >
>
>
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:59:40 +0000, Andy Dingley <[email protected]>
wrote:
>It was somewhere outside Barstow when "AAvK" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
>
>Diesel, kerosene or jet fuel. These days most large military vehicles
>use mutli-fuel engines. Diesel is favoured because of the reduced fire
>hazard, but they're set up to burn pretty much anything. The Abrams
>is unusual in that it's one of the few front-line vehicles that
>_can't_ mutli-fuel like this. As of a couple of years back, the
>British Army is gasoline-free for any engines other than motorbikes
>and chainsaws, and they were looking at those too.
>
>>Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>
>He was a mechanic. An engineer would also know _why_ they don't run
>gas turbines on gasoline.
According to <http://www.honeywellaerospace.com/pdf/AGT1500Turbine.pdf>,
the Abrams is multi-fueled.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "good ol' Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jet fuel...no, really.
> >
>
> True, but it's refined a bit differently - like diesel has differnet
grades
> ranging from the "hi-test" that you buy at the pump to sludge that needs
to
> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as ships.
> Mark
> >
>
>
Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
IIRC, DiMethyl Mercaptan - lovingly called "essence of skunk". Used for
many years in the rocketfuel industry to odorize dangerous chemicals. There
was one, called a boron hydride that you couldn't smell until it got to
around 20 parts per million. Problem was that it was fatal at 10ppm. Used
Pyridine to odorize it.
Ah lots of fond memories about pranks using pyridine and $100K worth of
special glass filters used just to make coffee in the lab.
God bless the Polaris missile - paid for a lot of toys.
"Gus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <I can't answer your questions but want to point out that NOTHING
> stinks worse
> than OLD kerosene--as in a lamp. <
>
> Obviously, you've never experienced that heady elixir known as
> Pyridine.
>
> Now THAT'S a stench !
>
> Gus
>
I use in on my sharpening stones. For me, it works better than
traditional cutting oil or 10 W 30.
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>use it for?
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "AAvK" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
Diesel, kerosene or jet fuel. These days most large military vehicles
use mutli-fuel engines. Diesel is favoured because of the reduced fire
hazard, but they're set up to burn pretty much anything. The Abrams
is unusual in that it's one of the few front-line vehicles that
_can't_ mutli-fuel like this. As of a couple of years back, the
British Army is gasoline-free for any engines other than motorbikes
and chainsaws, and they were looking at those too.
>Also an engineer told me that years ago.
He was a mechanic. An engineer would also know _why_ they don't run
gas turbines on gasoline.
It was somewhere outside Barstow when Rick Cook
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Well, in checking this out I just ran across an interesting fact. JP-4,
>the first generation jet fuel, isn't considered kerosene derived because
>it's about half gasoline.
JP-4 (amazingly enough) is actually the fourth generation jet fuel,
first specified in 1951 (third generation in service, because JP-2 was
barely used). Compared to JP-3 it was less volatile (less loss in
flight). It was never "made from gasoline", but it was (compared to
the early fuels) a blend of kerosene and naptha (gasoline-like
fractions). It's main advantage was easy worldwide production from
existing petrochemical plant - a problem with the JP-3 spec.
JP-5 was an interesting fuel. At the time the navy had a mixed jet and
piston fleet, on carriers with little spare storage capacity. So JP-5
was a heavy kerosene that wasn't usable as a jet fuel, but could be
stored in the ship's fuel bunkers (low fire risk) and even used in the
ship's own engines. To turn it into a jet fuel it was blended with
piston AvGas on-board ship to make something that resembled JP-4 and
really was "half gasoline". This fuel also contained lead, not a usual
additive in jet fuel. This caused a little metallurgical trouble for
US engine makers and also raised some limits on NATO aircraft
refueling from US carriers.
In time, JP-5's very low volatility made it attractive for higher
altitudes, once engines had been developed that could burn it
directly. JP-6 was a low temperature fuel for high altitudes at high
supersonic speeds and JP-7 was a high temperature fuel for _really_
high speeds - just the SR-71 family.
JP-8 is a relatively recent (mid 70s) development to provide a true
"single fuel" across the army's entire engine fleet. It's not a
perfect substitute for diesel, because of lower lubricity - military
multi-fuel diesels use more hard chrome plating in their fuel systems
to avoid the increased wear that its use would cause in a "civilian"
diesel.
The British army seems to be slightly ahead of the US in replacing
petrol engines. AIUI, the Brits have cleared the old petrol generator
fleet out (the surplus market is flooded with them) but the US still
needs petrol to run specialised gen sets attached to some equipment.
Neither of them seems to have found a workable diesel motorbike though
- there have been trial Harley Davidson singles fitted with Indian
Enfield engines, but these were about everything you'd expect from an
Indian diesel motorbike. There was talk of a Rotax diesel too, but
nothing seems to have come of it.
Gasoline (petrol) is a difficult fuel to burn in a gas turbine. The
problem is its low flashpoint and high flame velocity. It's difficult
to provide a stable burner design for it, particularly over the wide
range of air mass flow found over the engine's operating range. It's
especially hard to start a gas turbine engine fuelled with petrol -
the Armstrong-Siddeley design of vapourising burner had advantages
here (amongst many other advantages) but it was killed off by the
politics of the British engine industry being rationalised into one
company (lots of "Not Invented Here" innovations were discarded by
Rolls-Royce, whether they came from A-S, Bristol or Napier)
The engine in an Abrams is either the AGT1500 or the LV100 (if the
upgrade programme goes ahead). The AGT1500 is a dog, however you
measure it. The finest of '60s helicopter engine technology, with a
great many compressor and turbine stages. If you're in a mood to run
gasoline, then a better design to start with is one of the smaller APU
designs - a separate burner can, isolated and off to one side.
I understand that it will run on gasoline, but that this was very
much an expedient for use in extremis only. Since one of the mid-90s
upgrade programmes though, this facility has been withdrawn from
service - in a diesel-only army, it doesn't make much sense to support
a problematic fuel you're not going to have available anyway.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:22:09 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>You are not going to believe this one..
>
>Back on the mid 60's my mother had to go into the hospital to have eye
>surgery. She remained in the hospital for a couple of weeks and had an
>elderly lady as a room mate for about 1 week. While visiting my mother a
>nurse came into the room to prep the elderly lady for her eye surgery and
>wanted to collect her jewelry and false teeth. The lady looked to be about
>102 to me but was probably in her 70's. Any way the lady responded that the
>had no false teeth and had never lost any teeth. The nurse being very
>surprised inquired how she could possibly have never lost any teeth for as
>long as she had lived. The elderly lady's reply was that every day she
>rinsed her mouth out with kerosene.
>
Wonder how grandpa felt about that.
Bet there were some grandkids who weren't too hip on getting kisses (or
even holding close conversations) with grandma.
>
>
>
>"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
>> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
>> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
>> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
>> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
>> use it for?
>>
>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The company and independent testers say differently. I'll go with them.
"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> CW wrote:
>
> > Pull your head out and explain yourself, if you can (doubtful).
> >
> Only going by what my onsite chemist who did the spectra for wd40 (bulk
> not spray) whilst trying to eliminate a problem told me.
>
> Niel.
It was somewhere outside Barstow when [email protected] wrote:
>They are turbine powered but a turbine will run on anything that
>burns. Gas, diesel, alcohol, paint thinner, jet fuel, if you can light
>it an M1 will run on it.
You can't get any (AFAIK) US-designed production gas turbine to run on
petrol (gasoline) Some of the late '50s Armstrong-Siddeley burner
designs (as used in the Beryl or Sapphire) could be run on petrol, but
this was known to be hazardous.
If by "gas" you mean LPG (propane) then this is quite easy - easier to
get started than kerosene - which is why most of the model jet
builders use it.
For natural gas (methane) then this is a significant market for
turboshaft engines - they're used to power pipeline compressors, using
some of the product as fuel. These have quite extensively modified
fuel systems though.
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:51:25 GMT, Badger <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>
>> Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>> driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>> about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>
>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>
>Niel ;-)
Yeah, but ours actually ran more than 50 miles between mechanic's
sessions. :-)
[As a former owner of a Sterling, I can say that]
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
It was somewhere outside Barstow when Rick Cook
<[email protected]> wrote:
>--Actually the turbo-Rover did quite well at Le Mans, IIRC, before
>retiring with mechanical failure.
It never retired due to "failure". They drove it at Le Man three
times, although it was never officially entered as the rules couldn't
classify its "cylinder capacity". In '63 it finished 8th, in '65 10th
and '64 was the year when they damaged it getting there and couldn't
run it.
The Rover T4 (the third road car ?) was about as close to reaching a
public market as the Chrysler Ghia was. When launched it was claimed
to be within two or three years of production (which if you know the
car industry, is very close indeed). It was in fact even closer than
that - the thing holding it back was the chassis, that of the new P6
Rover (the shark) which went successfully on sale around two years
later. The reason they didn't sell it was quite simple - it cost
around twice what any other Rover did.
--
Smert' spamionam
In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The elderly lady's reply was that every day she
> rinsed her mouth out with kerosene.
A true fire-breather. Sounds like a fine woman.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:22:02 -0500, Guess who wrote:
>>That's quite an overgeneralization. Vegetable oil is, after all, _a_
>>hydrocarbon.
>
> No it's not. It's a carbohydrate. That indicates further that you
> don't know what you're talking about, and that people should be
> cautious about your advice. Kerosene is a mixture of hydrocarbon
> compounds.
No, vegetable OIL is a hydrocarbon. Go away, you idiot.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com
It's good for taking rust off of your TS when used with steel wool.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> > use it for?
>
> In rocketry, (F-1 Saturn V-style engines) the reaction (combustion of
> hydrogen and oxygen) is so violent,even when the propagation is
> moderated via coupled turbine pumps, that an additional component is
> introduced to moderate the burn....Kerosene.
>
> Is that cool or what?
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:51:25 GMT, Badger <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>>>driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>>>about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>>
>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>>
>>Niel ;-)
>
>
> Yeah, but ours actually ran more than 50 miles between mechanic's
> sessions. :-)
>
> [As a former owner of a Sterling, I can say that]
>
>
--Actually the turbo-Rover did quite well at Le Mans, IIRC, before
retiring with mechanical failure.
--RC
On 9 Mar 2005 08:22:18 -0800, "Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>what do you use it for?
Kerosene has so many "uses" because folks used to have it around. It
is very similar to mineral spirrits (paint thinner) and can be used in
a similar manner. Since mineral spirits is usually cheaper if you
don't have a place that sells it in bulk I use that.
One not mentioned is mixing it with straight 30w oil as a cleaner
preservative for metal. It works better than either one alone.
On 12 Mar 2005 06:05:28 -0800, the inscrutable "Charlie Self"
<[email protected]> spake:
>George responds:
>>>Ugh. Nasty, and every burp for hours tastes like gasoline,
>> but it sure isn't fatal (kept me afraid to light a cigarette for two
>> days, though). Or if it is fatal, it is sure slow acting: more than
>50
>> years since I tried that one.
>
>Oklahoma Credit Card.... <<
>
>Well, hell. I've got family in Oklahoma somewhere, but I haven't heard
>from them in 50 years, either. But my CC was in Westchester County,
>NY...specifically, just outside Katonah.
After watching other people do it all the time (and having done it
once myself) I designed a foolproof siphon system which guaranteed
that I ended up with no gas in the mouth. I took a rubber toilet float
and punched two holes in the top. Into the smaller hole I placed a
piece of 3/8" aquarium hose. Into the larger hole I placed the 7'
piece of stiff garden hose. Place the hose in the tank, slide the
"stopper" to the filler, and blow. You can put enough pressure
differential into the larger hose to get it to flow instantly without
risk of "fume mouth". I used it to fill my lawnmower gas cans.
As a teenager, my buddy with the super hot '67 GTO used an RV water
pump and a 50' hose to fill his tank from unsuspecting RVs. That Goat
with the 6-packed 389 V-8 really sucked gas. He'd put the outlet into
his tank, switch the pump on, and stick the hose in the RV tank. 5
minutes later, he was full. He was really lucky he was never caught at
that during Carter's Gas Rationing Days.
--
Life's a Frisbee: When you die, your soul goes up on the roof.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
I was a tank mechanic from 1982 to 1986. We had M60s for about the first
five months I was on active duty. We then got M1s. I used to fuel my M88's
1720 cubic inch, 12 cylinder diesel from the same trucks that delivered fuel
to the M1s. It's a safe bet it was diesel.
"Lawrence L'Hote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:QkZXd.113131$tl3.3120@attbi_s02...
>
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
> >>>
> >>> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
> >>ships.
> >>> >> Mark
> >>>
> >>> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2
> >>> > diesel.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not
> >>> diesel.
> >>> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be
> >>back
> >>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
> >
>
> FWIW the M60- A1,-A2-A3 were all diesel powered. They were the main
battle
> tank up until about 1991 or so. You didn't want to be any where near the
> exhaust when they started up or you would be covered with soot. I know
zilch
> about the M1Al.
> Larry SP4
> 3/51 Inf, 4th Armd Div '66-'68 Ferris Barracks, Germany
>
>
Wrong.
"njf>badger< badger" <"njf"@soton.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> bremen68 wrote:
> > According to my Father-ln-Law you can use kerosene for everything. :-)
> >
> > It's kinda like WD40.
>
> It would be, WD40 is part kero...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 03:16:38 GMT, Rick Cook <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:51:25 GMT, Badger <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Of course you can. This is nothing new. In 1963 a bunch of people were
>>>>driving around in gas turbine powered Chryslers, that could run on just
>>>>about anything including whiskey and perfume (both were demonstrated).
>>>
>>>Typical Americans, late again, Rover had a jet engined car in 1950.....
>>>
>>>Niel ;-)
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but ours actually ran more than 50 miles between mechanic's
>> sessions. :-)
>>
>> [As a former owner of a Sterling, I can say that]
>>
>>
>--Actually the turbo-Rover did quite well at Le Mans, IIRC, ....
> before
>retiring with mechanical failure.
>
Umm, yep, my point exactly. My Sterling was a dream to drive, too.
Great pickup, smooth ride, nice amenities -- problem was I spent most of my
time enjoying all that on the trips to the repair shop. Rover mechanicals
with Lucas electronics -- there's a combination made in [not] heaven.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On 09 Mar 2005 20:01:35 -0500, DJ Delorie <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No it's not. It's a carbohydrate.
>
>No, it's a triglyceride, a bonding of one glycerol and three fatty
>acids
Can't argue with that. The point is that hydrocarbon compounds are
generally toxic and carcinogenous.
>Note that vegetable oils *do* become slightly carcinogenic when heated
>beyond their "smoke point".
But then the chemical structure has been changed, and it is not what
it was. Breaking and reforming bonds is all the difference in the
world, and you must know that even seemingly small differences in
chemical structure can make all of the difference in the human
chemical factory, which takes us back to the main point again.
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 23:00:20 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Gus" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Obviously, you've never experienced that heady elixir known as
>>Pyridine.
>
>Here in the UK pyridine is used to make denatured alcohol smell too
>bad to drink. This is a real drawback when working with shellac!
I thought the mere fact that it was "denatured" was good enough -
drink and die. So in the UK they go so far as to put a noxious odor
to it. Bummer.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>>
>> >> be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
>ships.
>> >> Mark
>>
>> > Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
>> >
>> >
>> I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
>> Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>>
>
>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be back
>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
Nevertheless, that was my recollection, too. But, this is the
internet, so I took a look. Read 'em and weep:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
>One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
Nevertheless...
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
It was somewhere outside Barstow when LL <[email protected]>
wrote:
> So in the UK they go so far as to put a noxious odor
>to it. Bummer.
You said it ! We don't have Everclear over here either.
>I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
I used it for soaking an old carborundum stone I'd bought which was covered in
some sort of paste grease, it thouroghly cleaned it. Because of the fumes I let it
sit outside on newspaper for a week, which also worked fine.
--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:25:24 -0600, Australopithecus scobis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>No, vegetable OIL is a hydrocarbon. Go away, you idiot.
QUOTE [Morrison and Boyd, "Organic Chemistry", second edition]
"Certain organic compounds contain only two elements, hydrogen and
carbon, and hence are known as hydrocarbons."
END QUOTE
Vegetable oil has attached hydrocarbon chains, but because its entire
structure is not composed of only two elements it is not a hydrocarbon
by definition.
QUOTE:
Hydrocarbon chains comprise a series of carbon atoms linked together,
each of which has two hydrogen atoms attached. These molecules may be
of different chain lengths, and may also have double bonds in some
places. They are generally stable but release considerable amounts of
energy when burnt in the presence of oxygen. Combustion is activated
by a small amount of energy but can release a great deal of energy in
the right situation.
Hydrocarbon chains derived from fossil fuels typified by the
petrochemical industry do not have the carboxylic acid ester
connection, and exist in many elaborate forms.
END QUOTE.
...and many more.
Try reading instead of resorting to childish name-calling.
Two or three drops in a spoon of sugar gets rid of worms when taken
internally. At least according to my Grandma.
"Bob in Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have used kerosene in the past to remove rust from tools. It is also
> of course used as oil in lanterns. I used it the other day to my
> surprise to clean some greasy parts up and it worked great. I got to
> thinking about it and am a little puzzled, since most solvents do not
> act as oils and vice versa. What exactly is kerosene, and what do you
> use it for?
>
Yes.
"Al Palmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I use in on my sharpening stones. For me, it works better than
> traditional cutting oil or 10 W 30.
Guess who <[email protected]> writes:
> On 9 Mar 2005 22:03:06 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>In *small* quantities, it is also used as a substitute for "medicinal"
> >>>castor oil,
> >>
> >> Hydrocarbon products are poisonous and carcinogenic.
>
> >That's quite an overgeneralization. Vegetable oil is, after all, _a_
> >hydrocarbon.
>
> No it's not. It's a carbohydrate.
No, it's a triglyceride, a bonding of one glycerol and three fatty
acids (two of oleic acid and one of palmitic acid, for olive oil for
example). Carbohydrates are things like sugars and starches.
Note that vegetable oils *do* become slightly carcinogenic when heated
beyond their "smoke point".
Fatty acids and gasoline have remarkably similar chemical formulas:
Fatty Acid:
H H H O
| | | |
H-C-C-...-C-C-OH
| | |
H H H
Gasoline:
H H H H
| | | |
H-C-C-...-C-C-H
| | | |
H H H H
If one knows their chemistry , they would know that diesel,gasoline and
kerosene is all made from crude oil ,which is a prehistoric remains of
oils from plant/animal materials which over time has aged to crude
waiting for us to find it and put it to good use.
On a side note the first successful internal combustion engine was built
in Germany in the 1880's and the inventor was named Diesel but the
engine ran off of either peanut oil or vegetable oil but they found out
later it worked better with a refined crude that we all now know as
diesel fuel
LRod wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:23:13 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>
>>"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:7VSXd.113$KK5.26@fed1read03...
>>
>>>>>be preheated just to move the stuff as used in large motors such as
>>
>>ships.
>>
>>>>>Mark
>>>
>>>>Not always. M1 tank. Turbine engine, basically a jet. Runs on #2 diesel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I thought I saw on a TV doc that M1A1's are gasoline turbines, not diesel.
>>>Also an engineer told me that years ago.
>>>
>>
>>Boy would _that_ be dumb, given the flammability of gasoline. We'd be back
>>to the Molotov cocktails we drove at the outset of WWII.
>
>
> Nevertheless, that was my recollection, too. But, this is the
> internet, so I took a look. Read 'em and weep:
>
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm
>
> http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
>
>
>>One fuel does all is the objective. Helps the logistics planners a lot.
>
>
> Nevertheless...
>
I don't find the word 'gasoline' in either of those pages. I think
you're being confused by the term 'gas' turbine. The gas is the
combustion products that spin the turbine wheel -- analogous to a steam
turbine.
See for example: http://www.armychik.org/M1A1Specs.htm
I don't think gasoline is used in any current generation combat vehicles
in the US Army and I believe NATO is multi-fuel as well.
--RC