Scott Cramer wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2003, Jon B. spake unto rec.woodworking:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
>> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
>> sheet of 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock
>> has a smooth and rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the
>> tile onto?
>
>
> If you examine the edge of the Durock, you'll notice that the
> smooth side has a thin layer of cement on it. That's the side you
> want to put the mortar on. You'd think that the rough side would
> give better 'tooth' for the mortar, but it's designed to be used
> smooth side up. Get a couple of tubes of liquid nails or equivalent
> to bond the Durock to the underlayment, in addition to the screws or
> nails you are going to use.
>
> Scott
Just completed 600 Sqft of ceramic tile in the basement, and was told by a
ceramic tile installer with 15 yrs of exp that you should always put mortar
under the Durock. Same stuff as you're going to put the tile down with.
Takes a little longer and you want to trowel it the same as settting tile,
but hard as a rock when done. You want NO flex in the floor when done.
Liquid nails will not help this situation. As to the side up, I think it
says so on the label, at least it did on mine that I purchased at HD.
And if you have a framing nailer, get a box of ring shank nails and angle
them when setting them. I did this and it saved me TONS of time. It took
15 minutes to screw 1 panel in place and I could nail it in less than 5.
Floor is rock solid, no cracks in the grout anywhere, and we've had several
parties with 20-30 people on it at a time with no detriment to the floor.
radiant heat travels in any direction, Jack.
you are confusing heated AIR which travels upwards, as opposed to
radiated heat for a hot, solid object.
dave
JackD wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Personally I think you are being a bit paranoid.
> You already have 4 inches of clearance below your stove due to the legs.
> In addition, heat generally travels up.
> A layer of tin foil would suffice to protect your floor.
> Just make sure you install it on your head.
>
> -Jack
Donald Cranstone wrote:
> Jon:
>
> I realize what you intend to do, but I still think your reasoning is
> wrong. I strongly suggest that you consult the building inspector. I
> don't think that he will agree with you. If the particle board gets
> hot enough, it can start to burn on the opposite side where it is not
> covered with a non-flammable material. From what I've read on the
> matter, wood that is repeatedly exposed to temperatures as low as the
> boiling point of water will eventually burn when exposed to such low
> temperatures (it may take years to happen).
This is another one of those items that just because you don't get bit
today doesn't mean you won't get bit tomorrow.
I have a similar problem. I have a small commercial range:
http://stangii.com/range/imp.JPG
In the picture the range is roughly centered in it's alcove.
The installation manual says 4" clearance for the back and 6" on the
sides for combustible and 0" for noncombustible. As you can se in the
graphic I have sufficient clearance for sides and back (what can't be
seen is the walls and ceiling are 5/8 fire code, the ceiling has two layers)
The manual says nothing about the bottom.
Plans are to build wood frame second walls covered with "backboard"*
and the board covered with tiles.
Enough about me, on to the topic.
*The Backboard:
In my materials class (Kent State) I learnt ceramics are refractory.
Heat penetrates a ceramic and is refracted (bent) back towards the
surface. The greater the heat the deeper the heat penetrates, the
greater the apparent temperature on the cool side. I guess you could
look at ceramics as being heat reflectors as that's the apparent action,
but that's not the actual mechanism of what's happening.
Cement is a ceramic.( So I guess cement board is too ) It needs a
thickness in order to be able to work.
A property of ceramics is the finer the grain and denser the item the
better it's refracting properties.
That is why a porcelain tile is better than that red stuff at HD/L for ?
$1, $2 a foot?
That is why you need to get the best tile you can afford. Unless your
paying for factors other than the quality of ceramic (decoration,
glazing, getting ripped off) the more expensive the tile the better
refractor it makes.
Back to me:
I was working in a factory making grinders. Sometimes we would line the
equipment with aluminum oxide tiles about an inch thick. I don't think I
got quite enough.
Back to sub:
Backboard, In my class I learnt of a relatively new (post asbestos)
materials called Kaowool HS board. It's a ceramic board designed as a
refractory that can be cement coated and has structural properties. The
guy I was in class with (Bob) works for a firm that installs refractory
materials (furnace rebuilding). He said the price wasn't that bad but
that's relative to the other materials he worked with. Online I heard it
was pricey. ??
I'm going to research Kaowool a bit more and if it has properties
suitable to being used as a backboard or underlayment, and meets the
price restrictions, I'll go that route.
Otherwise I'll probably do 3/4 inches of cement board with a good
quality tile. I don't care if the floor ends up 1 1/2" or more thick. I
don't like the thought but I would rather have a platform than a house fire.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
I agree with you regarding ovens and installation. I was merely
pointing out the GENERAL concept of radiant versus convection heat.
(Will skip conduction) You had originally posted that heat general
travels upwards. Perhaps you meant specifically in an oven
installation, for the purposes of being safe and following applicable
codes. I agree with that, 100%!
dave
JackD wrote:
> 1) There are several layers of stainless steel and insulation between the
> flame at the top of the stove and the underside of the stove. The bottom of
> the stove will radiate MUCH less heat than the raw flame will. Do you cover
> your cabinets in gypboard?
>
> 2) Even the oven won't radiate that much heat or you would burn yourself
> while stirring your oatmeal. A toaster oven gets hot as a real oven, yet
> they sit on laminate over particle board all day long.
>
> 3) How many built-in ovens have you seen? Do you realize that they are being
> installed with zero clearance on the bottom of the oven in wooden cabinetry
> every day? The Horror!
>
> Kitchen fires are mostly caused by burning grease, not by the thermal
> radiation emitted by hot ovens.
> There is a reason that there is no clearance mentioned for the bottom of the
> stove. Reason is THERE IS ALREADY ENOUGH CLEARANCE. Duh.
>
> Put on your foil hats and be on your way.
>
> -Jack
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>radiant heat travels in any direction, Jack.
>>
>>you are confusing heated AIR which travels upwards, as opposed to
>>radiated heat for a hot, solid object.
>>
>>
>>dave
>>
>>JackD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>Personally I think you are being a bit paranoid.
>>>You already have 4 inches of clearance below your stove due to the legs.
>>>In addition, heat generally travels up.
>>>A layer of tin foil would suffice to protect your floor.
>>>Just make sure you install it on your head.
>>>
>>>-Jack
>>
>
>
I put thinset under the durock when using it on a countertop. the first
counter I did I got the thinset to thick so it created low spots
wherever I sank a screw as it squished the stuff down near the screw but
couldn't compact the thinset further away. the next time I did a
countertop I made the thinset a bit more wet and troweled on a slightly
thinner layer. Came out perfecto! My mentor, Michael Byrne suggests
the thinset under Durock. Whatever he says, I pretty much
follow...except he uses nails.
dave
Creamy Goodness wrote:
> Scott Cramer wrote:
>
>>On 28 Oct 2003, Jon B. spake unto rec.woodworking:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
>>>installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
>>>sheet of 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock
>>>has a smooth and rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the
>>>tile onto?
>>
>>
>> If you examine the edge of the Durock, you'll notice that the
>>smooth side has a thin layer of cement on it. That's the side you
>>want to put the mortar on. You'd think that the rough side would
>>give better 'tooth' for the mortar, but it's designed to be used
>>smooth side up. Get a couple of tubes of liquid nails or equivalent
>>to bond the Durock to the underlayment, in addition to the screws or
>>nails you are going to use.
>>
>>Scott
>
>
> Just completed 600 Sqft of ceramic tile in the basement, and was told by a
> ceramic tile installer with 15 yrs of exp that you should always put mortar
> under the Durock. Same stuff as you're going to put the tile down with.
> Takes a little longer and you want to trowel it the same as settting tile,
> but hard as a rock when done. You want NO flex in the floor when done.
> Liquid nails will not help this situation. As to the side up, I think it
> says so on the label, at least it did on mine that I purchased at HD.
>
> And if you have a framing nailer, get a box of ring shank nails and angle
> them when setting them. I did this and it saved me TONS of time. It took
> 15 minutes to screw 1 panel in place and I could nail it in less than 5.
> Floor is rock solid, no cracks in the grout anywhere, and we've had several
> parties with 20-30 people on it at a time with no detriment to the floor.
>
>
On 28 Oct 2003, Jon B. spake unto rec.woodworking:
> Hi,
>
> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
> sheet of 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock
> has a smooth and rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the
> tile onto?
If you examine the edge of the Durock, you'll notice that the smooth
side has a thin layer of cement on it. That's the side you want to put the
mortar on. You'd think that the rough side would give better 'tooth' for
the mortar, but it's designed to be used smooth side up. Get a couple of
tubes of liquid nails or equivalent to bond the Durock to the underlayment,
in addition to the screws or nails you are going to use.
Scott
On 28 Oct 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:
> the rough side is for mortar and the smooth side is used with mastics.
> that's the official word on their website... you might download their
> pdf file on using the stuff.
>
>
> dave
>
> Jon B. wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
>> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
>> sheet of 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock
>> has a smooth and rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the
>> tile onto?
If Durock PDF says rough side up, I stand corrected. The brand I
used was Hardibacker, and it specified smooth side up for all applications.
"Jon B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a sheet
of
> 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a smooth
and
> rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
i'd probably put it rough side up to provide additional tooth for the
thinset.
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
"Mike Rinken" <mwrinken@nospam_comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qj1ob.46439$ao4.118825@attbi_s51...
> Jon B. wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the concern. You realize of course that the particle
> > board and Durock are simply foundation materials and will be
> > completely enclosed by the non-combustible tile right?
> >
> > Here's a link to the stove:
> >
> > http://www.avalonstoves.com/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=34
> >
> > As you can see it's a free-standing unit with the fire box positioned
> > almost a foot and a half above the tile. The pad I'm building meets
> > Travis Industries specifications for wall and floor clearances.
> > Basically, I'm building an exact replica of what TI provides to its
> > dealers so there shouldn't be a problem. However, thanks...
> >
> > Jon
>
> Jon,
>
> One other thing, don't use the premixed mastic! I used it on a smaller
job
> in my master bath and it didn't work at all! Do a google search, but I
> found (after laying the most important tiles in the angled design) most
> people had no luck using a pre-mixed mastic. It essentially never dried
and
> you end up with tiles that rock and break the grout.
>
> Use a mortar based thinset and mix it properly. I used a wheelbarrow and
a
> hoe to mix mine. Worked great and I'll never use the pre-mix again.
>
> Mike
>
mastic is for walls. thinset for floors. damhikt.
Donald,
Typically the manufacturer describes wall and floor clearances for their
equipment.
These may be on the order of a foot or two.
How is particle board covered with a layer of durock and tile substantially
different than wooden studs covered in gyp-board which are acceptable as
wall covering?
The tile is there to prevent embers or anything that falls out of the stove
from landing on the floor and starting a fire.
It sounds to me that you are suggesting that the manufacturers own
specifications are not nearly stringent enough. It sounds to me that you
might be wrong.
-Jack
"Donald Cranstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jon:
>
> I realize what you intend to do, but I still think your reasoning is
> wrong. I strongly suggest that you consult the building inspector. I
> don't think that he will agree with you. If the particle board gets
> hot enough, it can start to burn on the opposite side where it is not
> covered with a non-flammable material. From what I've read on the
> matter, wood that is repeatedly exposed to temperatures as low as the
> boiling point of water will eventually burn when exposed to such low
> temperatures (it may take years to happen). If what you propose to do
> is OK, then why worry about having the inspector see it. Your
> insurance company is not likely be happy about an uninspected
> installation, and not only your house but also your life is at risk.
>
> Don
>
> Don
>
> "Jon B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the concern. You realize of course that the particle board
and
> > Durock are simply foundation materials and will be completely enclosed
by
> > the non-combustible tile right?
> >
> > Here's a link to the stove:
> >
> > http://www.avalonstoves.com/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=34
> >
> > As you can see it's a free-standing unit with the fire box positioned
almost
> > a foot and a half above the tile. The pad I'm building meets Travis
> > Industries specifications for wall and floor clearances. Basically, I'm
> > building an exact replica of what TI provides to its dealers so there
> > shouldn't be a problem. However, thanks...
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > "Donald Cranstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > > I think you should check with your building inspector. To the best of
> > > my knowledge (and I've used wood stoves to heat my houses for 23
> > > years) a woodstove set on ceramic tiles over 1/4 inch of Durock over
> > > particle board does not meet the building code anywhere, will not pass
> > > inspection, and is a fire waiting to happen. If you have a fire that
> > > is caused by such an unsafe installation, your insurance company is
> > > unlikely to pay any claim you may have to make.
> > >
> > > Someone else spoke of using mastic to fasten the tiles to the Durock.
> > > If the mastic is a flammable material, this would be even more unsafe.
> > >
> > > Don
> >
> > news:[email protected]...> "Jon B."
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> > > > installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
> > sheet of
> > > > 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a
smooth
> > and
> > > > rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jon
> > >
Mark,
Personally I think you are being a bit paranoid.
You already have 4 inches of clearance below your stove due to the legs.
In addition, heat generally travels up.
A layer of tin foil would suffice to protect your floor.
Just make sure you install it on your head.
-Jack
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:5Pxob.1362
>
> I have a similar problem. I have a small commercial range:
>
> http://stangii.com/range/imp.JPG
>
> In the picture the range is roughly centered in it's alcove.
>
> The installation manual says 4" clearance for the back and 6" on the
> sides for combustible and 0" for noncombustible. As you can se in the
> graphic I have sufficient clearance for sides and back (what can't be
> seen is the walls and ceiling are 5/8 fire code, the ceiling has two
layers)
>
> The manual says nothing about the bottom.
>
>
1) There are several layers of stainless steel and insulation between the
flame at the top of the stove and the underside of the stove. The bottom of
the stove will radiate MUCH less heat than the raw flame will. Do you cover
your cabinets in gypboard?
2) Even the oven won't radiate that much heat or you would burn yourself
while stirring your oatmeal. A toaster oven gets hot as a real oven, yet
they sit on laminate over particle board all day long.
3) How many built-in ovens have you seen? Do you realize that they are being
installed with zero clearance on the bottom of the oven in wooden cabinetry
every day? The Horror!
Kitchen fires are mostly caused by burning grease, not by the thermal
radiation emitted by hot ovens.
There is a reason that there is no clearance mentioned for the bottom of the
stove. Reason is THERE IS ALREADY ENOUGH CLEARANCE. Duh.
Put on your foil hats and be on your way.
-Jack
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> radiant heat travels in any direction, Jack.
>
> you are confusing heated AIR which travels upwards, as opposed to
> radiated heat for a hot, solid object.
>
>
> dave
>
> JackD wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > Personally I think you are being a bit paranoid.
> > You already have 4 inches of clearance below your stove due to the legs.
> > In addition, heat generally travels up.
> > A layer of tin foil would suffice to protect your floor.
> > Just make sure you install it on your head.
> >
> > -Jack
>
> It should be evident because the manufacturer states there is a minimum
> distance needed between the range and flammable surfaces this range
> cannot be installed with zero clearance, as is a normal consumer range.
It should be evident that since the manufacturer states minimum clearances
that those are the minimum clearances. Thus if no clearance on the bottom is
mentioned it is likely not required.
> A huge burner on a consumer range is 18,000 btu. My range has 28,000 btu
> burners. A high powered consumer level oven has roughly a 19,000 btu
> burner, this sucker has a 29,000 btu burner.
I know about commercial kitchen equipment. It is great if you have a
commercial kitchen.
> Baby makes some heat. You should check out commercial ranges sometime.
>
> Comparing this range to a consumer cooker is like comparing a V6 Camero
> to a Z06 Corvette. There is no comparison beyond their both used for
> cooking.
What are you cooking on it?
> > Kitchen fires are mostly caused by burning grease, not by the thermal
> > radiation emitted by hot ovens.
>
> This brings up the hood I have in mind .... but that's too far off topic.
Not really, you are much more likely to have a fire over your stove than
under it.
> Ever try getting something out of a claims adjuster? Bastards will use
> any excuse they can.
>
> My point is not giving them any excuses.
Well, check your local codes then and see if you are required to install a
range which complies with ANSI Z21.1. If you are (which is quite commonly
the case) and your range does not, then you have given "them" a huge excuse.
-Jack
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Donald Cranstone wrote:
>
> > Jon:
> >
> > I realize what you intend to do, but I still think your reasoning is
> > wrong. I strongly suggest that you consult the building inspector. I
> > don't think that he will agree with you. If the particle board gets
> > hot enough, it can start to burn on the opposite side where it is not
> > covered with a non-flammable material. From what I've read on the
> > matter, wood that is repeatedly exposed to temperatures as low as the
> > boiling point of water will eventually burn when exposed to such low
> > temperatures (it may take years to happen).
>
>
>
> This is another one of those items that just because you don't get bit
> today doesn't mean you won't get bit tomorrow.
>
>
>
> I have a similar problem. I have a small commercial range:
>
> http://stangii.com/range/imp.JPG
>
> In the picture the range is roughly centered in it's alcove.
>
> The installation manual says 4" clearance for the back and 6" on the
> sides for combustible and 0" for noncombustible. As you can se in the
> graphic I have sufficient clearance for sides and back (what can't be
> seen is the walls and ceiling are 5/8 fire code, the ceiling has two
layers)
>
> The manual says nothing about the bottom.
>
> Plans are to build wood frame second walls covered with "backboard"*
> and the board covered with tiles.
>
>
> Enough about me, on to the topic.
>
> *The Backboard:
>
> In my materials class (Kent State) I learnt ceramics are refractory.
> Heat penetrates a ceramic and is refracted (bent) back towards the
> surface. The greater the heat the deeper the heat penetrates, the
> greater the apparent temperature on the cool side. I guess you could
> look at ceramics as being heat reflectors as that's the apparent action,
> but that's not the actual mechanism of what's happening.
>
>
> Cement is a ceramic.( So I guess cement board is too ) It needs a
> thickness in order to be able to work.
>
> A property of ceramics is the finer the grain and denser the item the
> better it's refracting properties.
>
> That is why a porcelain tile is better than that red stuff at HD/L for ?
> $1, $2 a foot?
>
> That is why you need to get the best tile you can afford. Unless your
> paying for factors other than the quality of ceramic (decoration,
> glazing, getting ripped off) the more expensive the tile the better
> refractor it makes.
>
> Back to me:
>
> I was working in a factory making grinders. Sometimes we would line the
> equipment with aluminum oxide tiles about an inch thick. I don't think I
> got quite enough.
>
> Back to sub:
>
> Backboard, In my class I learnt of a relatively new (post asbestos)
> materials called Kaowool HS board. It's a ceramic board designed as a
> refractory that can be cement coated and has structural properties. The
> guy I was in class with (Bob) works for a firm that installs refractory
> materials (furnace rebuilding). He said the price wasn't that bad but
> that's relative to the other materials he worked with. Online I heard it
> was pricey. ??
i use a 2" thick piece as the floor of my glass kiln. it's very soft. you
can dent it or probably cut it in two by dragging your fingernail over it
enough times. the residue from cutting it is akin to asbestos, carcinogenic.
it has to be encapsulated. i used a liquid silica hardener. this has to be
fired after using it to at least 1400F.
> I'm going to research Kaowool a bit more and if it has properties
> suitable to being used as a backboard or underlayment, and meets the
> price restrictions, I'll go that route.
>
> Otherwise I'll probably do 3/4 inches of cement board with a good
> quality tile. I don't care if the floor ends up 1 1/2" or more thick. I
> don't like the thought but I would rather have a platform than a house
fire.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark
>
> N.E. Ohio
>
>
> Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
> A.K.A. Mark Twain)
>
> When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
> suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
>
"Jon B." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi,
>
> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a sheet of
> 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a smooth and
> rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
I think you should check with your building inspector. To the best of
my knowledge (and I've used wood stoves to heat my houses for 23
years) a woodstove set on ceramic tiles over 1/4 inch of Durock over
particle board does not meet the building code anywhere, will not pass
inspection, and is a fire waiting to happen. If you have a fire that
is caused by such an unsafe installation, your insurance company is
unlikely to pay any claim you may have to make.
Someone else spoke of using mastic to fasten the tiles to the Durock.
If the mastic is a flammable material, this would be even more unsafe.
Don
Jon:
I realize what you intend to do, but I still think your reasoning is
wrong. I strongly suggest that you consult the building inspector. I
don't think that he will agree with you. If the particle board gets
hot enough, it can start to burn on the opposite side where it is not
covered with a non-flammable material. From what I've read on the
matter, wood that is repeatedly exposed to temperatures as low as the
boiling point of water will eventually burn when exposed to such low
temperatures (it may take years to happen). If what you propose to do
is OK, then why worry about having the inspector see it. Your
insurance company is not likely be happy about an uninspected
installation, and not only your house but also your life is at risk.
Don
Don
"Jon B." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the concern. You realize of course that the particle board and
> Durock are simply foundation materials and will be completely enclosed by
> the non-combustible tile right?
>
> Here's a link to the stove:
>
> http://www.avalonstoves.com/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=34
>
> As you can see it's a free-standing unit with the fire box positioned almost
> a foot and a half above the tile. The pad I'm building meets Travis
> Industries specifications for wall and floor clearances. Basically, I'm
> building an exact replica of what TI provides to its dealers so there
> shouldn't be a problem. However, thanks...
>
> Jon
>
> "Donald Cranstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > I think you should check with your building inspector. To the best of
> > my knowledge (and I've used wood stoves to heat my houses for 23
> > years) a woodstove set on ceramic tiles over 1/4 inch of Durock over
> > particle board does not meet the building code anywhere, will not pass
> > inspection, and is a fire waiting to happen. If you have a fire that
> > is caused by such an unsafe installation, your insurance company is
> > unlikely to pay any claim you may have to make.
> >
> > Someone else spoke of using mastic to fasten the tiles to the Durock.
> > If the mastic is a flammable material, this would be even more unsafe.
> >
> > Don
>
> news:[email protected]...> "Jon B."
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> > > installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
> sheet of
> > > 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a smooth
> and
> > > rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jon
> >
the rough side is for mortar and the smooth side is used with mastics.
that's the official word on their website... you might download their
pdf file on using the stuff.
dave
Jon B. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a sheet of
> 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a smooth and
> rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
>
JackD wrote:
> 1) There are several layers of stainless steel and insulation between the
> flame at the top of the stove and the underside of the stove.
While doing my little dissertation on ceramics I debated including a
paragraph on stainless steel.
Thermally, stainless is an amazing metal. It just does not want to get
hot. It's atoms resist being excited. But after time it * will * get
hot, and it does not like cooling down. It also does a fine job at
radiating heat.
Stainless makes a fine shield for short term, doesn't work worth a damn
for extended periods.
> 2) Even the oven won't radiate that much heat or you would burn yourself
> while stirring your oatmeal.
Coupled with:
> 3) How many built-in ovens have you seen? Do you realize that they are being
> installed with zero clearance on the bottom of the oven in wooden cabinetry
> every day? The Horror!
It should be evident because the manufacturer states there is a minimum
distance needed between the range and flammable surfaces this range
cannot be installed with zero clearance, as is a normal consumer range.
A huge burner on a consumer range is 18,000 btu. My range has 28,000 btu
burners. A high powered consumer level oven has roughly a 19,000 btu
burner, this sucker has a 29,000 btu burner.
Our furnace is 80,000 btu, my range is 141,000 btu.
Baby makes some heat. You should check out commercial ranges sometime.
Comparing this range to a consumer cooker is like comparing a V6 Camero
to a Z06 Corvette. There is no comparison beyond their both used for
cooking.
> Kitchen fires are mostly caused by burning grease, not by the thermal
> radiation emitted by hot ovens.
This brings up the hood I have in mind .... but that's too far off topic.
I will say I'm looking for a commercial fire suppression system. Almost
had one too, SOB outbid my wallet.
>
> Put on your foil hats and be on your way.
That would be appropriate had I brought up the signals being beamed at
me from a CIA satellite, but since I didn't mention it, ... Remember,
it's not paranoia if the really are after you.
:}
Ever try getting something out of a claims adjuster? Bastards will use
any excuse they can.
My point is not giving them any excuses.
Hell, my point is keeping from filing a claim.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Jon B. wrote:
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the concern. You realize of course that the particle
> board and Durock are simply foundation materials and will be
> completely enclosed by the non-combustible tile right?
>
> Here's a link to the stove:
>
> http://www.avalonstoves.com/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=34
>
> As you can see it's a free-standing unit with the fire box positioned
> almost a foot and a half above the tile. The pad I'm building meets
> Travis Industries specifications for wall and floor clearances.
> Basically, I'm building an exact replica of what TI provides to its
> dealers so there shouldn't be a problem. However, thanks...
>
> Jon
Jon,
One other thing, don't use the premixed mastic! I used it on a smaller job
in my master bath and it didn't work at all! Do a google search, but I
found (after laying the most important tiles in the angled design) most
people had no luck using a pre-mixed mastic. It essentially never dried and
you end up with tiles that rock and break the grout.
Use a mortar based thinset and mix it properly. I used a wheelbarrow and a
hoe to mix mine. Worked great and I'll never use the pre-mix again.
Mike
Well thank you very much for your quick responses. I'll install it to the
particle board smooth side down with mortar and flat screws this afternoon.
I knew I came to the right place!
Thanks again,
Jon
"Scott Cramer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 28 Oct 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:
>
> > the rough side is for mortar and the smooth side is used with mastics.
> > that's the official word on their website... you might download their
> > pdf file on using the stuff.
> >
> >
> > dave
> >
> > Jon B. wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> >> installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
> >> sheet of 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock
> >> has a smooth and rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the
> >> tile onto?
>
> If Durock PDF says rough side up, I stand corrected. The brand I
> used was Hardibacker, and it specified smooth side up for all
applications.
Don,
Thanks for the concern. You realize of course that the particle board and
Durock are simply foundation materials and will be completely enclosed by
the non-combustible tile right?
Here's a link to the stove:
http://www.avalonstoves.com/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=34
As you can see it's a free-standing unit with the fire box positioned almost
a foot and a half above the tile. The pad I'm building meets Travis
Industries specifications for wall and floor clearances. Basically, I'm
building an exact replica of what TI provides to its dealers so there
shouldn't be a problem. However, thanks...
Jon
"Donald Cranstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think you should check with your building inspector. To the best of
> my knowledge (and I've used wood stoves to heat my houses for 23
> years) a woodstove set on ceramic tiles over 1/4 inch of Durock over
> particle board does not meet the building code anywhere, will not pass
> inspection, and is a fire waiting to happen. If you have a fire that
> is caused by such an unsafe installation, your insurance company is
> unlikely to pay any claim you may have to make.
>
> Someone else spoke of using mastic to fasten the tiles to the Durock.
> If the mastic is a flammable material, this would be even more unsafe.
>
> Don
news:[email protected]...> "Jon B."
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm building a ceramic tile pad for a wood-burning stove that'll be
> > installed next week. I have a 3/4" particle board foundation and a
sheet of
> > 1/4" Durock underlayment for the ceramic tile. The Durock has a smooth
and
> > rough side. Which is the correct side to lay the tile onto?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jon
>
Thanks Mike. I used UltraFlex 2 mortar...very solid. Today I start laying
the tile. So far so good...
Jon
"Mike Rinken" <mwrinken@nospam_comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qj1ob.46439$ao4.118825@attbi_s51...
> One other thing, don't use the premixed mastic! I used it on a smaller
job
> in my master bath and it didn't work at all! Do a google search, but I
> found (after laying the most important tiles in the angled design) most
> people had no luck using a pre-mixed mastic. It essentially never dried
and
> you end up with tiles that rock and break the grout.
>
> Use a mortar based thinset and mix it properly. I used a wheelbarrow and
a
> hoe to mix mine. Worked great and I'll never use the pre-mix again.
>
> Mike
>
>