Dear experts,
Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
Thanks a lot
What follows is may sound different than some of the other opinions
given above. The truth is that cutting is a very complex matter. I
drove up to Langley BC last week to Cal Saw Canada to do some research.
I met with a scientist from Forintek. The whole purpose was to see
how science works in the real world. The answer is that it is not a
perfect fit.
Having said that I would assume that melamine would rapidly wear out a
plywood bade which doesn't mean that others haven't seen the
opposite happen.
There are roughly five reasons why saw blades wear out; abrasion,
adhesion, diffusion, fatigue and tribological considerations.
Tungsten carbide is tungsten carbide grains in a cobalt matrix like
rocks in cement make concrete. In addition tungsten carbide can have
different additives to handle different chemical conditions. It can
also have additives to make really tough grains to prevent wear.
Really big grains are generally tougher and really small grains
generally give better wear.
The shape of the fibers in the material being cut can change
performance results. A saw tip that cuts particleboard really well
may not cut fiberboard (MDF) nearly as well. Materials that are glued
cut differently than solid wood. It also depends on what glue is used.
In addition to glue and particles of wood there is typically a filler
and that can make a huge difference as to how long a blade stays sharp.
The edge of a saw tip in wood can reach 1100 F very briefly. How the
material being cut handles that heat greatly affects the life of the
saw tip. The amount of acid in the wood tends to leach out the cobalt
binder that holds carbide together. Dry wood is tougher but greenwood
is more corrosive.
Saw blades are made differently for good reason. The hook angle or how
the tip enters the material can greatly affect the quality of the cut
and the life of the blade.
There is a great deal more and there are still a lot more questions
than answers. If anyone is really interested I can forward some
papers.
Tom
Plywood and MDF 10" 60t tcg with a hook angle of about 10+
Although for plywood alone most atb blades and atb+r will work fine.
Melamine is a bear, without a spiral downcut router or a scoring saw
you will need a blade that has a HATB grind and a low hook angle -5 to
+5
the downside is you need to fiddle with blade height to produce the
best cut and the HATB grind is a trade off for a smooth finish but it
wears quickly.
For a 10" saw I rarely reccomend going beyond 60tooth, but for a blade
dedicated to melamine you might like an 80t
Systimatic made one called an LV blade and other manufaturers have
their own.
The problem with going much beyond 60t on a 10" circular saw with
carbide tips is it leaves little room for both a gullet and steel
behind the carbide tooth.
You can have 80 and 100 teeth but you had better be gentle with them.
Usually when they fail the steel is ripped away along with the tooth.
A little less of an occurance now with salt quenching and laser cut
plates but still a factor worth consideration.
Good practice is using as few teeth as produce an acceptable cut.
This means fence and blade must be parallel.
Daily Grind Sharpening Service
According to <[email protected]>:
> For a 10" saw I rarely reccomend going beyond 60tooth, but for a blade
> dedicated to melamine you might like an 80t
Tradesmaster (a smallish offbrand, HQ'd in Canada I think) sells
a quite economical 100t blade.
Works very well on composites. Awesome crosscutting blade.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
According to <[email protected]>:
> The problem with going much beyond 60t on a 10" circular saw with
> carbide tips is it leaves little room for both a gullet and steel
> behind the carbide tooth.
> You can have 80 and 100 teeth but you had better be gentle with them.
> Usually when they fail the steel is ripped away along with the tooth.
> A little less of an occurance now with salt quenching and laser cut
> plates but still a factor worth consideration.
> Good practice is using as few teeth as produce an acceptable cut.
> This means fence and blade must be parallel.
This may be true sometimes, but considering that blade is about 14 years
old by now, and has had lots of abuse heaped on it, it's certainly not a
factor with this one.
Not so with the Stanley wobble dado I bought. Lost three teeth in
almost the first use. Mind you, that was probably only 24T.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
[email protected] wrote:
> Dear experts,
>
> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>
> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>
> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>
> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>
> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
>
>
> Thanks a lot
>
No, Melamine does not ruin saw blades. Some blades will not leave a
clean cut in it though.
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>One thing I experimented with was blade speed. By using a power feeder so I
>could control one variable, and changing pulleys on the saw, I could make the
>same blade cut, grind and melt its way through acrylic.
Acrylic is a bit of an exception in that it doesn't take well to hot
blades. I find that using a bandsaw on acrylic allows the blade to
cool before returning to the work. What I find odd is that more tools
are not like scrollsaws, with blowers that remove the chips and
perform at least some limited cooling of the blade and work.
Similarly, hammer drills designed for drilling masonry and concrete
would benefit from a small cooling water spray that would save the bit
and also limit dust.
"Steve W" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:pTO_f.5675$Q92.5527@trnddc04...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Dear experts,
>>>
>>> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
>>> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>>>
>>> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>>>
>>> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
>>> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>>>
>>> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>>>
>>> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
>>
>> Long answer - which is harder, melamine (plastic) or steel/carbide?
>> Steel/carbide.
>>
>> Short answer - no
>>
>> Saw blades will ultimately dull when cutting *anything*. They'll dull a
>> bit faster when cutting particle board (on which is the melamine).
>>
>> --
>>
>> dadiOH
>
>
>
>Any suggestions for a blade to cut MDF and plywood? It sounds like I should
>not be using my WWII on that stuff.
>
Forrest makes blades to cut just about everything. If you have enough,
buy a blade that is meant for it.
http://www.forrestsawblades.com/online_catalog.htm
I have a WWII and I love it.
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
"Robatoy" wrote
> One thing I experimented with was blade speed. By using a power feeder so
I
> could control one variable, and changing pulleys on the saw, I could make
the
> same blade cut, grind and melt its way through acrylic.
>
> I have often wondered why we don't insist on variable speed table saws,
like we
> do on routers, shapers, sanders and drill presses.
Rob ... you just dug out my particular axe I like to grind upon occasion.
The cost of a VFD (variable frequency drive) that will allow you to use a
three-phase motor on single phase 220 has dropped down to where it's almost
silly to mess around with static converters. Even IF you have three-phase
power, a VFD is helpful. Slow starting speed will reduce your belt wear
beyond shelf-life (dry rot gets them before they wear out), no more dimming
the lights on startup, the ability to use a 24 volt DC control circuit, and
best of all, a braking system that will stop the blade quickly without
causing the saw to jump (actually, let's just call it a very intense
deacceleration ramp). It won't be saw-stop (tm) quick, but it sure will be
close. Since YOU mentioned speed control, I don't need bother. PLUS, if you
do have a power feeder, and IF it accepts an external speed signal (yep,
another VFD!), you can slave the two together so that you keep your saw
speed constant (as well as keeping the current constant) by controlling the
feeder speed ... thus REALLY controlling the variables caused by density
gradients.
Yep, you dug out my axe again. Thanks!
Regards,
Rick
BTW ... what IS it about those hammers, anyway?
"Steve W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Any suggestions for a blade to cut MDF and plywood? It sounds like I
> should not be using my WWII on that stuff.
>
I use a Freud Diablo 80T blade. Good finish, cuts both easily.
"Beloved Leader" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Shouldn't a hacksaw go through that stuff? If not, a Dremel Mototool
> with the clay cutoff wheel will make easy work of it.
You're kidding, right? This is a joke, right?
Mike
In article <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The truth is that cutting is a very complex matter.
[the rest of the excellent post snipped for brevity]
Complex indeed. In my quest for a 'perfect' blade for cutting solid surface
products, I have gathered a lot of info over the years. All that info agrees on
one thing only----> a complex matter indeed.
One thing I experimented with was blade speed. By using a power feeder so I
could control one variable, and changing pulleys on the saw, I could make the
same blade cut, grind and melt its way through acrylic.
I have often wondered why we don't insist on variable speed table saws, like we
do on routers, shapers, sanders and drill presses.
In article <[email protected]>,
David <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't want the extra cost of a variable speed TS.
> I don't need to slow the blade down, thank you very much.
You are so welcome, please don't mention it.
How about if we make it an option, eh?
r
In article <[email protected]>,
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 'Cause then someone would invent a Variable Speed Saw Stop and start the
> debate all over again.
Uh-oh.. I was x-posting to other ng's... sorry 'bout that.
Variable Speed Saw-Stops, eh? Fully programmable to reduce 'The Nick' in
your Knackwurst.
Melamine itself won't hurt the saw blade, but the particle board
behind it is very rough on them. It's loaded with glue.
[email protected] wrote:
> Dear experts,
>
> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>
> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>
> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>
> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>
> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
[email protected] wrote:
> Dear experts,
>
> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>
> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>
> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>
> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>
> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
Long answer - which is harder, melamine (plastic) or steel/carbide?
Steel/carbide.
Short answer - no
Saw blades will ultimately dull when cutting *anything*. They'll dull a
bit faster when cutting particle board (on which is the melamine).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pTO_f.5675$Q92.5527@trnddc04...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Dear experts,
>>
>> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
>> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>>
>> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>>
>> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
>> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>>
>> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>>
>> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
>
> Long answer - which is harder, melamine (plastic) or steel/carbide?
> Steel/carbide.
>
> Short answer - no
>
> Saw blades will ultimately dull when cutting *anything*. They'll dull a
> bit faster when cutting particle board (on which is the melamine).
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
Any suggestions for a blade to cut MDF and plywood? It sounds like I should
not be using my WWII on that stuff.
-Steve
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The truth is that cutting is a very complex matter.
>
> [the rest of the excellent post snipped for brevity]
>
> Complex indeed. In my quest for a 'perfect' blade for cutting solid
> surface
> products, I have gathered a lot of info over the years. All that info
> agrees on
> one thing only----> a complex matter indeed.
>
> One thing I experimented with was blade speed. By using a power feeder so
> I
> could control one variable, and changing pulleys on the saw, I could make
> the
> same blade cut, grind and melt its way through acrylic.
>
> I have often wondered why we don't insist on variable speed table saws,
> like we
> do on routers, shapers, sanders and drill presses.
'Cause then someone would invent a Variable Speed Saw Stop and start the
debate all over again.
V
"Steve W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:pTO_f.5675$Q92.5527@trnddc04...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Dear experts,
>>>
>>> Recently, I had some boards for shelves cut at Home Depot.
>>> They used their plywood cutter. A great invention.
>>>
>>> They say that they are not supposed to cut melamine.
>>>
>>> One place said that I won't get a smooth edge.
>>> Which was fine for my purposes. Go ahead.
>>>
>>> Another place said that melamine ruins the blades.
>>>
>>> Does melamine ruin saw blades, or not?
>>
>> Long answer - which is harder, melamine (plastic) or steel/carbide?
>> Steel/carbide.
>>
>> Short answer - no
>>
>> Saw blades will ultimately dull when cutting *anything*. They'll dull a
>> bit faster when cutting particle board (on which is the melamine).
>>
>> --
>>
>> dadiOH
>
>
>
> Any suggestions for a blade to cut MDF and plywood? It sounds like I
> should not be using my WWII on that stuff.
>
> -Steve
>
And plastic materials, same blade?
-Steve