rant: removing blade from new saw

Doug Winterburn asks:

>> blades installed. At least this blade appears half decent, but it's a thin
>kerf
>> so will shortly go.
>
>I was looking the TS3650 over and it appears to have a shroud under the
>blade for dust collection with what looks to be a 2.5" shop vac
>connection. Just wondering how effective the dust collection is?

Don't know yet. I'm still putting this thing together. All it needs now is to
finish install the mobile bit, the fence and the motor. Probably a couple hours
work, but it has to be spread over the weekend...and it needs to be done by
Monday, because temps will drop from the current 70+ back down around 31.

Charlie Self
"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html

Michael Baglio wrote:

> I'm thinking you should be able to. With a lot of help from my
> friends and therefore no expenses for "labor", I put up my 12X16 for
> $4,015. [Hey Novak, you reading this? Thanks again for the "you can

> I'm rambling, Sylvan, but the point is you can do this. Mine could
> have come in cheaper than the 4K if I'd been trying to cut costs. I
> don't know what your housing market and personal situation is, but
> maybe a 5-year loan would be an option. Alice and I are planning on

In three years it might. Not yet. $20K was just a figure I pulled out of
thin air.

I'm just in the daydream phase now, and have done no real planning or
research. I expect one of the most expensive things to be the foundation.
I'm not going to watch another shop turn into termite poop before my eyes.
I want this thing built to a very high standard of termite resistance, and
I want a rock solid foundation. I expect to hire this out because I
thoroughly suck at getting such things to come out right. (I was utterly
defeated by an 8' x 8' foundation. I have no prayer of getting a bigger
one right.)

In the process, I have to hire someone to rip out my main panel in the house
and replace it. (It's Federal Pacific, so this needs doing. It's also
100% full, so it needs doing doubly.) That's going to add around $1,000
right there. While I'm hiring a real electrician, I'm going to go ahead
and get a real electrician to run power out to a panel in the shop too, and
do everything to code. I figure maybe another $1,000 right there. I might
do better, since I have a friend who's an electrician, and he loves
beer. ;)

Then for the building itself, I'm no carpenter. I have no idea what I'm
doing. My neighbor built himself a nice shop just by eyeball and the seat
of his pants, but I'm going to need a lot more help than that. I haven't
really looked at options yet, but I like the idea of paying someone who
knows what the hell he's doing to erect it, and then wiring and finishing
it myself.

> Which, in the final scheme of things will mean that the all tools I've
> just put into it are going to end up being free.

Yeah, that's good ammo for SWMBO. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:16:49 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>(SWMBO says it's OK for me to build a new building out in the middle of the
>yard, up to about 25x25 or so, depending on how zoning and such goes.
>[snip] Still, she didn't bat an eye when I mentioned a $20,000 price tag.
>Now if only I can actually build one for that.

I'm thinking you should be able to. With a lot of help from my
friends and therefore no expenses for "labor", I put up my 12X16 for
$4,015. [Hey Novak, you reading this? Thanks again for the "you can
do it" post about a year ago. It inspired me. ;> ] Some materials,
like commercial flourescent fixtures, were free from a friend who is
the maintenance supervisor for the "company-that
doesn't-make-anything-you-own-they-just-make-it-better".
They were on their way to the landfill so we rescued them.

But other things I spent extra on, like T1-11 interior walls instead
of drywall. I also spent extra on things you don't see, like
electricity. Four circuits of 110 at 42", and a run of 220 at a foot
off the floor. Outlets on every stud. Power everywhere, infinite
options. Could have saved money there, what I have is a bit of
overkill. Floor is 2X construction on piers. 3/4" t&g ply, which is
still expensive as hell, but covered with free-to-me recycled
beadboard paneling. (Yes, beadboard is supposed to be for walls and
ceilings, but when it's free and you can have a thicker floor and a
"hardwood floor" look for the price of a gallon of poly, it's the
cat's jammies.) Also could have saved some money by pitching the roof
less steeply, and therefore needing less lengthy rafters. Set it at
10 over 12, (which was a bitch to shingle), but it gave me the ability
to cross-tie it at 10-1/2 feet off the floor. Swinging an 8' tubafor
end-over-end without worrying about smacking anything is nice.
I saved a few hundred by making the windows out of half-lapped 1X
stock and some more on-it's-way-to-the-landfill "Acrylite" (sp?)
lexan/plastic/whatever-it-is stuff instead of glass. It's got an R
value of about Zero, but it was free and indestructable, so that's
what I used.

I'm rambling, Sylvan, but the point is you can do this. Mine could
have come in cheaper than the 4K if I'd been trying to cut costs. I
don't know what your housing market and personal situation is, but
maybe a 5-year loan would be an option. Alice and I are planning on
moving in the next few years, and if this shop doesn't add 10 grand to
the value of the house, I'll be suprised.

Which, in the final scheme of things will mean that the all tools I've
just put into it are going to end up being free.

Good luck,
Michael

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Just finished tuning my Craftsman last night Silvan. I don't let nobody
> talk bad about my Craftsman. Nobody. And... it's well adjusted now too.

Yeah, but mine is one of the new ones, so it's a piece of junk.

So people say. I love it. I know there are better saws out there, but I'm
unconvinced that I needed to spend another $400 to $2,000 to make myself
happy. It's a question of what I need it to do, what I was replacing, and
what I could afford.

I bought a Craftsman drill press on purpose too, even though I could have
afforded a couple of other ones, and I love that too. I've put a lot of
miles on it already, and it has been a joy.

The one thing Sears has going for it around here is that they stock things
nobody else does. I strongly prefer to just go buy something and take it
home, and I prefer not to make a 70 mile round trip to get it. My
Craftsman electric drill is really a DeWalt, but nobody around here sells
this drill wearing yellow plastic. So mine is black and says Craftsman, so
what?

But of course, it's a piece of junk, or a ripoff, or an inferior tool
because it says "Craftsman," and I'm an idiot and a completely un-savvy
tool buyer for wasting my money on any of this stuff.

> I think I quit before you did - I got my to .001 and called that good to
> go.
> Seems I recall you went all the way to immeasurable. Mine is an old Model

Right. Probably .0005" or less. I've changed blades four times and
re-checked this, and it's staying put too. WOOT! (And if I have to
re-adjust it, I have to re-adjust it. The dial indicator makes it easy.)

> having to compensate for less than square cross cuts. Today - the new
> fence system gets installed and I start building the outfeed and extension
> table.

What are you putting on it? The "align-a-rip" system the new ones have has
gotten some good reviews, and it seems like quite a nice fence. I figure
I'll see how it goes. So far, so good.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Just finished tuning my Craftsman last night Silvan. I don't let
>> nobody talk bad about my Craftsman. Nobody. And... it's well
>> adjusted now too.
>
> Yeah, but mine is one of the new ones, so it's a piece of junk.
>
> So people say. I love it. I know there are better saws out there,
> but I'm unconvinced that I needed to spend another $400 to $2,000 to
> make myself happy. It's a question of what I need it to do, what I
> was replacing, and what I could afford.

That is exactly right. Sure, there are sometimes differences in tools that
make the good ones worth going for, but then again there are differences in
tools that are more in the eye of the beholder than in the performance of
the tool.

So - I'm wondering... did your saw perform a great deal better after you
tuned it? I hafta tell ya, after I aligned my blade, I spent the first part
of yesterday installing a new fence - I went with the Sears 24/24. My only
complaint - you can't just walk into the local Sears store and pick one up
off the shelf. I had to order mine and it took a week to come in. But -
finally yesterday, early afternoon, I was ready to put a piece of wood
through it. Grabbed a slab of mohagany that a friend gave me that has been
laying around his house for years. Ripped it and I knew I was in heaven.
Grabbed an old 2x8 and made some cross cuts, and grabbed a bunch of other
stuff just to run through it. Man - that saw just sings and it just slices
through wood again. What a difference - I had forgotten how a good cut
felt. The new fence is such an improvement, but I knew it would be, I'm
just enjoying the realization of it. Built one extension table for the
right side of it before quitting last night - MDF banded by some cherry I
had laying around. Next - outfeed tables. Eventually, I will take off the
cast iron extension on the left side of the table as well and replace it
with one just like the one I built for the right side, but right now I have
to get this saw up and in service and get going on a project for my wife.
Still have to build that outfeed and mount my new router (see thread on
routers and the one entiteled "It's Here...") on the right extension. That
part is on hold for a router insert from Rockler.

>
> I bought a Craftsman drill press on purpose too, even though I could
> have afforded a couple of other ones, and I love that too. I've put
> a lot of miles on it already, and it has been a joy.

I've gotten a lot of miles out of a Craftsman drill press as well. I bought
mine along with a compound miter, a band saw, and another table saw (which I
immediately sold) from a guy who needed to dump the stuff - all for $300.
Almost new, all with receipts and manuals. I gave the band saw to my son
after getting pretty damned fed up with it. I don't know if it's the nature
of 12in saws, or this model, but I could never get a decent cut out of it.
The drill press and the compound miter have gotten lots of use and I have no
complaints about them at all.

>
> But of course, it's a piece of junk, or a ripoff, or an inferior tool
> because it says "Craftsman," and I'm an idiot and a completely
> un-savvy tool buyer for wasting my money on any of this stuff.

Well, there are differences sometimes in what a manufacturer will produce
for private label versus what they produce for their own label, and then
there are products that simply carry different badges. If it works and you
like it, that's what counts. It is after all, a drill motor. It does go
round and round, doesn't it? That's what matters most. Oh BTW - do the
drill motors have the same automatic adjustment feature that the routers
have? (Sorry... couldn't resist - I am one of those people who got
snookered by buying a Sears router years ago. See router threads)

>
> Right. Probably .0005" or less. I've changed blades four times and
> re-checked this, and it's staying put too. WOOT! (And if I have to
> re-adjust it, I have to re-adjust it. The dial indicator makes it
> easy.)

I used my electronic mic, but I would not want to do it often. On my saw
it's hard to get to the trundle bolts. I ended up lifting the top and
extensions right off the base and aligning it out in the open while it was
hanging suspended between two supports. That made it very easy to align it
but it's a pain to get it in and out of the saw body. It's likely that mine
was a little tempermental because it had sat in it's previous position for
so many years, and the next time it might actually align more easily right
in the saw.

>
> What are you putting on it? The "align-a-rip" system the new ones
> have has gotten some good reviews, and it seems like quite a nice
> fence. I figure I'll see how it goes. So far, so good.

That's it. I bought the 24/24 and I'm loving it already. Seems to be very
stable and accurate. Slides very smoothly. These fences were getting very
good reviews a few years ago when I considered one but decided to buy other
things instead. Well - they still work very well today and I only wish I
had bought one a few years ago when I first looked at them. It's back to
that decision of what do I need versus what can it cost? I try not to buy
cheap stuff and I certainly do not buy on price alone, but then again I
really don't like overbuying. I have no need for what ever the added
benefit of some of the more pricey fence rail systems offer, so I didn't
look at them seriously. I would have paid $350 or more for a good fence if
that's what I needed to do, but I didn't, so I spent $150 on a good fence.
It is after all, just a fence - it just sits there.

It's all about enjoying these things and what we can do with them. The real
artistry comes from the hands behind the tools, the tools just make it
easier. Every guy with great tools can tell stories of starting out with
something far less, and learing to cope in order to turn out good joints,
good cuts, good finishes, etc., and in the end, he's a better craftsman for
it.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Charlie Self wrote:

> to finish install the mobile bit, the fence and the motor. Probably a
> couple hours work, but it has to be spread over the weekend...and it needs
> to be done by Monday, because temps will drop from the current 70+ back
> down around 31.

Nooooooooooooo!!!

All this time dicking around with my saw to get it perrrrrrfect, and I won't
get to cut and glue anything.

(It was time well-spent though. This thing may be a Crapsman, but it's a
well-adjusted Crapsman. It ain't no Unisaur, but it will be a whole new
world for me compared to that POS Skil.)

This has a dust collection thingie on it too. I haven't gotten around to
rearranging my shop vac dust collection network to accomodate all the
shifting I had to do in order to make room for this behemoth, so I haven't
tried it yet.

I'm betting it will be moderately effective, but will probably still let a
lot of finer dust escape. Probably work better with a real DC too, but
that's not going to happen for years. My shop runneth over.

(SWMBO says it's OK for me to build a new building out in the middle of the
yard, up to about 25x25 or so, depending on how zoning and such goes. When
we can afford it, which won't be for a loooong time yet. Still, she didn't
bat an eye when I mentioned a $20,000 price tag. Now if only I can
actually build one for that. And come up with the money...)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:
>
> (It was time well-spent though. This thing may be a Crapsman, but
> it's a well-adjusted Crapsman. It ain't no Unisaur, but it will be a
> whole new world for me compared to that POS Skil.)
>

Just finished tuning my Craftsman last night Silvan. I don't let nobody
talk bad about my Craftsman. Nobody. And... it's well adjusted now too. I
think I quit before you did - I got my to .001 and called that good to go.
Seems I recall you went all the way to immeasurable. Mine is an old Model
100 and it's cut up a lot of wood that has turned into some pretty nice
cabinetry, and my only concern now is whether or not I can adjust to not
having to compensate for less than square cross cuts. Today - the new fence
system gets installed and I start building the outfeed and extension table.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

bad Craftsman, bad Craftsman..

so, Mike are you gonna take a swing at me? :)

dave

Mike Marlow wrote:


>
> Just finished tuning my Craftsman last night Silvan. I don't let nobody
> talk bad about my Craftsman. Nobody. And... it's well adjusted now too.