All,
My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste - suitable for
vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a real liquid -
more like thick slime.
Is this normal?
Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min. and then
scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish came off.
Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish, polyurethane, milk paint
and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when applied.
Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
was not present.
Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the old finish is
very resilient.
Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of methlyene
chloride.
Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive chemical stripper
product.
Regards,
Doug
I would seriously doubt any general stripper will remove milk paint,
as you say that Zinsser labeling indicated.
Mahogany door! Take the door off the jam and work on it flat. Don't
skimp on the repair of that quality of door. Working on it, with it
vertical, to me, is doing a non-quality job.
KleanStrip has 60% methylene Chloride, which is the main active
ingredient for general stripping. I think you (or someone) had
earlier mentioned rinsing/cleanup with some sort of alcohol. *Note:
From the KleanStrip website. http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/MSWRPTM.pdf
Additional Data - Methylene chloride: Alcohol may enhance the toxic
effects.
Should you try the KleanStrip, rinse or clean up with mineral spirits
(preferred) or soapy water, not with an alcohol product. After all is
stripped and cleaned, then, I suppose, an alcohol wipe-down is okay.
Sonny
"Doug Hortvet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All,
>
> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish
> stripper on the
> exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly
> deteriorated.
>
> Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste -
> suitable for
> vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>
> This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a
> real liquid -
> more like thick slime.
>
> Is this normal?
>
> Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min.
> and then
> scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish
> came off.
>
> Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish,
> polyurethane, milk paint
> and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
>
> Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>
> In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when
> applied.
>
> Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance
> being methanol,
> acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this
> composition - which
> was not present.
>
> Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the
> old finish is
> very resilient.
>
> Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of
> methlyene
> chloride.
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive
> chemical stripper
> product.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
>
There are a few things you did not mention so I will assume you did not
do them.
1) Purchase a finish / paint stripper containing the most methylene
chloride you can. A rough guideline is to buy the one that weighs the most.
Methylene chloride is the heaviest component of the strippers and the can
that weighs the most probably has the highest concentration of methylene
chloride. There are stronger stripers available. They are usually called
aircraft stripper grade and usually contain lye. They not something you
should need.
2) Take the door off the hinges so you can work on it laid flat. This
will keep the stripper in contact with the surface longer.
3) Before you apply stripper, clean the door. Dirt can actually block
the stripper from reaching the finish. First use warm water at one gallon
of water to one capful of dishwashing detergent. The idea is to get the
door wet enough to do the work but not so wet that it becomes saturated. To
rinse the door, use a fresh cloth and fresh water. Follow up with fresh
cloth to dry the door. Wash down again with mineral spirits to remove any
remaining oil soluble dirt. There is no rinse in this case, just use a
fresh cloth to both remove the contaminated mineral spirits and dry the
door.
4) Apply the stripper in a thick layer and do not continue to move it
about the surface once you have applied it. You want the wax in the
stripper to keep the methylene chloride from evaporating. Continuously
moving it on the surface will not allow a wax "crust" to form and the
methylene chloride will evaporate.
5) Once the stripper has sat for the time suggested on the stripper
container, remove it and apply a fresh coat of stripper. There is no need
to do an extensive job of removing the first coat but get as much as you can
by scraping it off. Let the second coat sit as long as the first. Now you
can do a thorough job of removing the stripper followed by a wipedown with
either lacquer thinner or a solution of toluene, methanol, and acetone.
Either should keep any residual finish from redepositing as you remove the
stripper.
There are a few finishes that require the surface to be roughened to the
wood surface before applying stripper but I doubt you will encounter these.
Good Luck.
[This followup was posted to rec.woodworking and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> All,
>
> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
> exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
>
> Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste - suitable for
> vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>
> This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a real liquid -
> more like thick slime.
>
> Is this normal?
>
> Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min. and then
> scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish came off.
>
> Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish, polyurethane, milk paint
> and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
>
> Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>
> In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when applied.
>
> Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
> acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
> was not present.
>
> Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the old finish is
> very resilient.
>
> Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of methlyene
> chloride.
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive chemical stripper
> product.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
My experience of stripping old finish is that it may be necessary to go
at it with multiple applications of the stripper. If the door has panel
type features it may be necessary to work the stripper into the panel
corners and edges using a pad of steel wool. Steel wool with stripper
requires careful selection of the correct grade of the stuff. Too fine
and the pad will just completely plug up and not be useful. Also it is
necessary to make sure that you have the best hands protection you can
get.
Your nylon brush idea may be a workable replacement for the steel wool
but having not tried that I cannot comment.
I've had good luck with JASCO paint stripper. This discussion has some
additional tips. http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/jasco-paint-remover-
whats-trick-50490/
--
Michael Karas
Carousel Design Solutions
http://www.carousel-design.com
Doug Hortvet <[email protected]> wrote in news:265dv79p1a0eihjk05bbcibdunkub8kfoe@
4ax.com:
> Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
> acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
> was not present.
Per the MSDS the product is *less than* 25% methylene chloride... They don't say how much
less.
Doug Hortvet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> All,
>
> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and
> varnish stripper on the exterior face of a mahogany entry door -
> whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
>
> Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was
> a paste - suitable for vertical surfaces, which fits my
> application..
>
> This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid -
> and not a real liquid - more like thick slime.
>
> Is this normal?
Totally normal.
>
> Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the
> suggested 30 min. and then scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle
> brush - very little of the finish came off.
Also totally normal. Sounds like you left it on too long, and it
dried up. You need to remove it while the stuff is still wet and
slimy.
Did you shake the can thoroughly first?
> Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish,
> polyurethane, milk paint and more - up to 3 layers of finish in
> one application.
>
> Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>
> In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range
> when applied.
You have less time in hot weather. Try again, but don't leave it
on so long next time. [...]
> Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more
> aggressive chemical stripper product.
Well, I recommended ZipStrip...
On Jul 6, 3:53=A0am, Doug Hortvet <[email protected]> wrote:
> Will review MSDS documents of other products for one
> with a greater % of methlyene
> chloride.
Zip Strip. The grade sold for stripping boats is
the fastest.
> Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for
> a more aggressive chemical stripper
> product.
Lye will strip almost anything, although it's not
terribly kind to wood or skin.
Is the door flat, with minimal joinery or panels and
crossbucks? Card scraper is the fastest "stripper."
Sharpen with a file, forget the burnisher, a hooked
edge won't last three strokes on old paint. Save the
Zip Strip for cleaning out the detailed spots.
Doug Hortvet wrote:
> All,
>
> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish
> stripper on the exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish
> is old and mostly deteriorated.
>
> Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a
> paste - suitable for vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>
> This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and
> not a real liquid - more like thick slime.
>
> Is this normal?
Yes.
> Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30
> min. and then scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very
> little of the finish came off.
How much did you put on? Had it dried some when you scrubbed? You need to
put on a *THICK* coat and scrape/scrub before it dies out. Once it dries
some the finish it softened sort of reconstitutes. After putting it on,
poke/scrape at the paint once in a while with something like a toothpick to
see if the finish is softening. You can also see the finish
wrinkling/cracking.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 7/6/2012 12:53 AM, Doug Hortvet wrote:
> All,
>
> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
> exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
Since you "do not know" what finish you are trying to remove,
various strippers might not work very well. Factory finished doors
could have one of "many" very tough finishes.
Poly is an example of very tough to strip.
Spar Varnish is also tough to strip.
Klean-Strip makes "several" strippers, all for different finishes.
Go here and do a little reading:
http://www.wmbarr.com/kleanstrip/kleanstrip_resources_choosingprod.aspx
http://www.wmbarr.com/kleanstrip/kleanstrip_product_landing.aspx
There is NO single stripper that will work well on all finishes,
you need to find the one for your door.
On 7/7/2012 7:47 AM, Doug Hortvet wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the very helpful and informative comments.
>
> Following additional info I did not include the first time:
>
> 1. The product has a very weak odor - tube plastic modelers cement or Ambroid tube glue
> has a stronger odor.
>
> 2. The can was vigorously shaken each time product was removed for use.
>
> 3. Noting the initial application appeared to have dried out in several areas, additional
> stripper was applied. While the first application was a bit thin - after the second
> application the total film thickness was ~ 1/8".
>
> 4. The finish never appeared to wrinkle / crack - this after the second application.
>
> 5. Sanding was completed before application of the stripper - mostly on the flat surfaces,
> and to a lesser degree on the curved surfaces.
>
> 6. The product tech bulletin advises the max. application temp is 85F - was likely very
> close to that during use. May have to do this just before dawn to ensure the ambient temp
> is at minimum for the day :)
>
> 7. Will get KleanStrip or Zip Strip this morning and go at it again, making sure the
> product is applied in a thick layer and removed before drying - this aspect of the
> procedure was most likely where I fell short of proper execution.
>
> Thanks again to all for the benefit of your experience - much appreciated!
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> Doug Hortvet <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
>> exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
>>
>> Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste - suitable for
>> vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>>
>> This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a real liquid -
>> more like thick slime.
>>
>> Is this normal?
>>
>> Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min. and then
>> scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish came off.
>>
>> Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish, polyurethane, milk paint
>> and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
>>
>> Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>>
>> In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when applied.
>>
>> Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
>> acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
>> was not present.
>>
>> Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the old finish is
>> very resilient.
>>
>> Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of methlyene
>> chloride.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive chemical stripper
>> product.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>
Granddaughter had someone else paint a crib and dresser with latex
enamel. Asked me to fix it. I foolishly said, no problem. I tried
quite a few different strippers and never did find one that was
effective on the latex. The best performance was straight lacquer
thinner with a 3M type pad. Very slow, but came out well. Great
granddaughter turned out cute, smart, pretty, popular, etc, etc.
--
___________________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 02:53:00 -0500, Doug Hortvet <[email protected]>
wrote:
>All,
>
>My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
>exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
Is that rated for poly finishes? Not all strippers are, and those
which aren't won't cut it, at all!
>Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste - suitable for
>vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>
>This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a real liquid -
>more like thick slime.
>
>Is this normal?
Yeah, they're usually like jello.
>Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min. and then
>scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish came off.
Uh, try a putty knife/scraper. If it still doesn't come off, refer to
my first question. (Is it poly rated?)
>Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish, polyurethane, milk paint
>and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
>
>Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>
>In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when applied.
If it dried up on you, it was too warm. Was it still a gel when you
brushed at it? If not, the solvents evaporated and it dried up on
you. That's a bad thing. Rewet it and catch it when it's still wet
the next time.
>Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
>acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
>was not present.
OK, the methylene chloride was the poly killer, so it should have
worked.
>Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the old finish is
>very resilient.
The gels usually don't lose effectiveness because they're gelled. Did
it reek pretty good? If not, maybe it was bad.
>Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of methlyene
>chloride.
>
>Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive chemical stripper
>product.
Surprisingly, some of the citrus strippers are poly-rated.
One other thing to try: Take the door off, lay it down, gel it up, and
cover that with plastic for 45 minutes. Now try to scrape the finish
off. Did that help?
--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732
Thanks to everyone for the very helpful and informative comments.
Following additional info I did not include the first time:
1. The product has a very weak odor - tube plastic modelers cement or Ambroid tube glue
has a stronger odor.
2. The can was vigorously shaken each time product was removed for use.
3. Noting the initial application appeared to have dried out in several areas, additional
stripper was applied. While the first application was a bit thin - after the second
application the total film thickness was ~ 1/8".
4. The finish never appeared to wrinkle / crack - this after the second application.
5. Sanding was completed before application of the stripper - mostly on the flat surfaces,
and to a lesser degree on the curved surfaces.
6. The product tech bulletin advises the max. application temp is 85F - was likely very
close to that during use. May have to do this just before dawn to ensure the ambient temp
is at minimum for the day :)
7. Will get KleanStrip or Zip Strip this morning and go at it again, making sure the
product is applied in a thick layer and removed before drying - this aspect of the
procedure was most likely where I fell short of proper execution.
Thanks again to all for the benefit of your experience - much appreciated!
Regards,
Doug
Doug Hortvet <[email protected]> wrote:
>All,
>
>My first use of a chemical stripper was Zinsser's paint and varnish stripper on the
>exterior face of a mahogany entry door - whose finish is old and mostly deteriorated.
>
>Not sure if the stuff I got was old or what - can advised it was a paste - suitable for
>vertical surfaces, which fits my application..
>
>This stuff is like the blob - definitely a non-Newtonian fluid - and not a real liquid -
>more like thick slime.
>
>Is this normal?
>
>Bottom line - after leaving in place for longer that the suggested 30 min. and then
>scrubbing with a stiff nylon bristle brush - very little of the finish came off.
>
>Product is labeled to remove latex and oil-base paint, varnish, polyurethane, milk paint
>and more - up to 3 layers of finish in one application.
>
>Temperature Application Range is 65 - 85 deg.F.
>
>In Houston this evening was pushing the upper limit of the range when applied.
>
>Per the MSDS the product is ~ 25% methlyene chloride - with the balance being methanol,
>acetone and toluene. I would have expected a strong smell with this composition - which
>was not present.
>
>Either the product was old and lost effectiveness or what is left of the old finish is
>very resilient.
>
>Will review MSDS documents of other products for one with a greater % of methlyene
>chloride.
>
>Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions for a more aggressive chemical stripper
>product.
>
>Regards,
>
>Doug
>
>