Opps, Black and Decker buys Delta/Porter Cable..

Tom Kohlman responds:

>Interesting reading...#1 I never realized that B&D ever sold Dewalt...for as
>long as I can remember Dewalt was the "budget" (i.e. crap) line for B&D
>until they repositioned it in the mid-90's. Now they are a force to be
>dealt with and B&D is the "crap"...go figure.

B&D used to have a Professional line of hand power tools that was excellent.
DeWalt back then was their stationary tool arm, mostly radial arm saws (but not
on the old DW pattern).

AFAIK, DW was never the "crap" line, but other than the pro line, B&D turned
out a consumer line of tools through the '80s that was neither better nor worse
than today's line. In the early '90s, B&D positioned DeWalt as their primary
pro tool line and dropped the B&D Professional line.

>Delta is pretty much already positioned as stationery tools so they only
>have to worry about Jet/Grizzly/others which will serve to keep the
>accountants at bay (give me junk and I'll change flags in a heartbeat). The
>Dewalt/PC hook-up will be a much more interesting story...it's been a
>toss-up on a lot of tools in the past couple years, me always tending
>towards PC given the old mindset that Dewalt was still crap and on top of
>that AEG killing Milwaukee for a couple of years before they realized what
>they were doing.

Tool buying tendencies depend on perceptions. Your concept of DW as crap is an
unusual one, though.

>All in I think we are going to get better tools, hopefully better service.

We hope. I for one do not particularly like consolidation amongst tool
companies. So far, it hasn't resulted in any real horror stories in my life,
and I was very impressed last month when I visited the Lavergne, TN assembly
line at WMH where model 66's are put together.

That said, it's easy to see how little effort would be needed to switch that
tool, and the 3 to 5 HP shapers that are also assembled there, overseas for
production. Current production is all U.S., with outsourcing limited to about
200 miles around Lavergne (Nashville area). Already, most of the Delta
production, as well as Powermatic, is overseas. Their flagship units tend to at
least be assembled in the U.S., but as quality perceptions change, that may
well change also.


Charlie Self
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by
evil men." Plato

> Tool buying tendencies depend on perceptions. Your concept of DW as crap
is an
> unusual one, though.

I share that perception.
Maybe it is the color?
In the early '90s I think my perception was correct.

-Jack

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Self" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: Opps, Black and Decker buys Delta/Porter Cable..



>
> B&D used to have a Professional line of hand power tools that was
excellent.
> DeWalt back then was their stationary tool arm, mostly radial arm saws
(but not
> on the old DW pattern).
>
> AFAIK, DW was never the "crap" line, but other than the pro line, B&D
turned
> out a consumer line of tools through the '80s that was neither better nor
worse
> than today's line. In the early '90s, B&D positioned DeWalt as their
primary
> pro tool line and dropped the B&D Professional line.
>

I have to agree. I still have a corded drill, circular saw, router and jig
saw from the B&D TRADE line from the early 80's (mother in law worked at
B&D). These tools are tough. I have beat the crap out of them over the
years and they are still going strong. They were dark brown in color. I
believe this line became the Dewalt line. The router is identical to the
first Dewalt and the jig saw was the same for many years.

"...a cog in a wheel"?

Kevin
--
=====
"DarylRos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> That's what I thought when B and D brought back DeWalt. Delta's customer
> service has become so poor, and so many tools are now made in Taiwan, I
don't
> see a downside. They were bought out by a company that actually makes
tools. At
> Pentair, they were an unknown cog in a wheel.

>Now that the B&D accountants are in
>charge, we'll see the value of tools that actually work shoot up
>in value over time as everything marketed is dumbed down to the
>level of "everything battery operated in one suitcase"

That's what I thought when B and D brought back DeWalt. Delta's customer
service has become so poor, and so many tools are now made in Taiwan, I don't
see a downside. They were bought out by a company that actually makes tools. At
Pentair, they were an unknown cog in a wheel.

Michael Daly writes:

>
>Hang onto your current tools. Now that the B&D accountants are in
>charge, we'll see the value of tools that actually work shoot up
>in value over time as everything marketed is dumbed down to the
>level of "everything battery operated in one suitcase" sold to
>the person that only uses tools to hang pictures.
>
>Am I cynical or what.
>

ANd wrong? I don't find all the DeWalt tools that bad or dumbed down.

Charlie Self
"When you appeal to force, there's one thing you must never do - lose." Dwight
D. Eisenhower

Charlie Self apparently said,on my timestamp of 20/07/2004 5:27 AM:

> Michael Daly writes:
>>
>>Am I cynical or what.
>>
>
>
> ANd wrong? I don't find all the DeWalt tools that bad or dumbed down.

:)

Quite frankly, I think there is a bit of elitism in all this.
Tools made in Taiwan or China are not inherently worse than
others, they just are not subjected to the same quality control
as everywhere else. A number of reasons for this, that don't
matter here.

Down-Under, we have a new kid in the block called GMC.
Stands for Global Machinery Corporation, or words to that
effect. The tools are cheap as dirt, made in China mostly,
I think.

http://www.gmcompany.com/index.cfm

I've got their tablesaw and compressor and am thinking of
getting a lot more! Had to contact their service line via
e-mail for the tablesaw, wanted to make some mods and
needed technical info: immediate reply, to the point, no bullshit,
with EXACTLY what I asked for. Can't ask for more.

Locally, it's a "social" in-thing for the "toolies" to denigrate
their products. Yet I've found they have some very good ones.
The compressor is dirt cheap and works a treat. The tablesaw
is actually quite nice and needs very little "fettling" to make
it work smooth and straight. At the price, it's unbeatable.

Of course, I won't be able to run a construction site off the comp,
or use the tablesaw as a panel saw. But I never wanted to, anyway!

Their angle grinders are cheap and unbreakable. Their drills are
powerful and will last quite a while if not abused in construction
site conditions. Their tools provide GREAT value and are excellent
for those of us who do NOT need pro-level tooling or trade-quality
tools.

And let's not forget that most of the "pro-quality" tools are a consumer
rip-off to start with: a trader or pro can usually obtain them at a discount
or claim them as a tax dodge, which is simply not an option for a
normal consumer. Value for moolah? Pah!...

I'm not so sure about this "all things cheap are rubbish" when
it comes to power tools. Seen enough to convince me that it is
not usually true. My drill press is an el-cheapo Chinese stand
alone model that is built like a tank and has excellent after-market
supplies and stock-standard parts. So are the bandsaur and lathe:
with two afternoons each of fettling, they sing. And their price was
ridiculously low compared to name-brand products.

Hand tools I agree: buy the best at whatever cost, your muscles
will thank you. But power tools? Get something that will do the job
at the level of use you need, with minimal after-market tuning. Or go
for a colour you like. And be done with it.

Couldn't care less if it is Metabo, Bosch, B&D, DeWalt, Makita, GMC,
Ozito, Clarke, Milwaukee, Grizzly, whatever.

(although I still want to get a Metabo SBE850 Impulse, that will
have to wait... :)

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]