I made a foolish design decision in building some window Z-frames for
shutters. I cut the pieces in order to miter them, thinking that the
joint would be easy with the biscuit cutter. Turns out the 0 biscuit
slot is too wide for the 1x3 stock. The end grain would never have
been visible, so I should have used rabbet joints.
What's the best way to reinforce the miters for someone low in
experience? I'm considering finish nails or a biscuit into the outside
corner after gluing. More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
to overengineer them.
Thanks for any thoughts.
<<Doweling is actually relatively easy with a $50 jig.>>
You mean like this one?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32250&cat=1,180,42311,42319
<<On the cheap, you could carpet tape a hardboard spacer to the front
of
your biscuit joiner to eat up some of the plunge depth and cut the
biscuits down to fit.>>
Ah, that's a thought!
<<You could cut slots with a 3 wing slot cutter in a router table and
use cut-down biscuits or shop-made splines. If you use the biscuits,
a 5/32" cutter will do the trick. >>
Another interesting idea!
<<Pocket holes would work with the holes plugged, but you'd need to see
if the visible plugs might be too visible. If you're painting, these
might be my first choice.>>
I'm thinking to stain, but that's still an interesting application.
I may fool around with the biscuit ideas in the short-term, since I
already have that, but I may order that jig too, if that's the one you
had in mind.
Thanks!
<<I do not have a mental picture of your design so I may be shooting at
point blank here.>>
The idea of a metal fastener is a good option, assuming that I can put
these on the outside; they will not be visible there. This thought
never occurred to me. I'm glad I asked!
<<Then drive a Robertson wooden screw in.>>
So you're suggesting using the screws instead of the nails that I
considered? The wooden plugs wouldn't be necessary....the outside of
the joint will not be visible.
Thanks for your suggestions. Very helpful.
<<But did you think of cutting a spline across the joint on the outside
(saw
blade wide) and then fitting in a 1/8" piece of wood to reinforce the
joint?
Wouldn't take much set up to do, and if the edges don't show, you could
get
away with ragged instead of flush.
>>
Is that the same thing as I "key"? (I'm looking at my book of
joinery.) But, yes, I did think of that, but I didn't see an
immediately obvious way to cut it reliably. I am tablesaw-less at
present, and my router is handheld only. Using a handsaw, I figured
it'd take several cuts to make it wide enough and was concerned the
spline would be a poor fit.
My thought about biscuit cutter on the outside seems to perform a
similar function as the spline. My joinery book shows "veneer" keys
which can fit into the kerf of a hand saw, but those don't seem strong
enough for a frame of this size, without using a bunch of the.
If you have a suggestion about a reliable way to cut these slots with
hand power tools (other than a miter saw and drill press), I'd be
interested.
Thanks!
Greg Esres wrote:
> I made a foolish design decision in building some window Z-frames for
> shutters. I cut the pieces in order to miter them, thinking that the
> joint would be easy with the biscuit cutter. Turns out the 0 biscuit
> slot is too wide for the 1x3 stock. The end grain would never have
> been visible, so I should have used rabbet joints.
>
> What's the best way to reinforce the miters for someone low in
> experience? I'm considering finish nails or a biscuit into the outside
> corner after gluing. More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
> holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
> installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
> to overengineer them.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
If the biscuit is wider than the joint surface, you can cut/sand off
the excess of the biscuit after gluing, and it should be strong enough.
I suspect screws are the easiest answer--
But did you think of cutting a spline across the joint on the outside (saw
blade wide) and then fitting in a 1/8" piece of wood to reinforce the joint?
Wouldn't take much set up to do, and if the edges don't show, you could get
away with ragged instead of flush.
Old Guy
"Greg Esres" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I made a foolish design decision in building some window Z-frames for
> shutters. I cut the pieces in order to miter them, thinking that the
> joint would be easy with the biscuit cutter. Turns out the 0 biscuit
> slot is too wide for the 1x3 stock. The end grain would never have
> been visible, so I should have used rabbet joints.
>
> What's the best way to reinforce the miters for someone low in
> experience? I'm considering finish nails or a biscuit into the outside
> corner after gluing. More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
> holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
> installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
> to overengineer them.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
I have used the bicuit into the outside corner. Works well.
"Greg Esres" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I made a foolish design decision in building some window Z-frames for
> shutters. I cut the pieces in order to miter them, thinking that the
> joint would be easy with the biscuit cutter. Turns out the 0 biscuit
> slot is too wide for the 1x3 stock. The end grain would never have
> been visible, so I should have used rabbet joints.
>
> What's the best way to reinforce the miters for someone low in
> experience? I'm considering finish nails or a biscuit into the outside
> corner after gluing. More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
> holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
> installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
> to overengineer them.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
Modify your biscuit joiner?
Old Guy
"Greg Esres" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <<But did you think of cutting a spline across the joint on the outside
> (saw
> blade wide) and then fitting in a 1/8" piece of wood to reinforce the
> joint?
> Wouldn't take much set up to do, and if the edges don't show, you could
> get
> away with ragged instead of flush.
>>>
>
> Is that the same thing as I "key"? (I'm looking at my book of
> joinery.) But, yes, I did think of that, but I didn't see an
> immediately obvious way to cut it reliably. I am tablesaw-less at
> present, and my router is handheld only. Using a handsaw, I figured
> it'd take several cuts to make it wide enough and was concerned the
> spline would be a poor fit.
>
> My thought about biscuit cutter on the outside seems to perform a
> similar function as the spline. My joinery book shows "veneer" keys
> which can fit into the kerf of a hand saw, but those don't seem strong
> enough for a frame of this size, without using a bunch of the.
>
> If you have a suggestion about a reliable way to cut these slots with
> hand power tools (other than a miter saw and drill press), I'd be
> interested.
>
> Thanks!
>
First have a look at these corner joiners:
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=40352&cat=3,41306,41319&ap=1
I do not have a mental picture of your design so I may be shooting at point
blank here.
Next make test pieces with metal spines, corrugated fasteners or chevrons.
The later are not too strong but if your frame is going to be anchored on a
wall, it may do. Check with some photo framing stores.
At this stage you may not be able to do a lock miter joint. However, If you
think you can get enough confidence in yourself, you can first practice on
pieces of scrap wood. Apply glue on the miter joint I and hold it together
with the proper clamp/belt. Then drill a proper size hole (drill and
countersink # 10) in the middle of the thickness and spaced as you need.
Then drive a Robertson wooden screw in.
After you will be left with the countersunk hole. Once all the screw are in
and the glue is dry you have to drive a taper wooden plug with glue to fill
the holes. Once the glue has dried you cut the excess plugs sticking out
and sand to a smooth finish to match.
The plugs can be made with a taper wooden plug cutter.
"Greg Esres" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I made a foolish design decision in building some window Z-frames for
> shutters. I cut the pieces in order to miter them, thinking that the
> joint would be easy with the biscuit cutter. Turns out the 0 biscuit
> slot is too wide for the 1x3 stock. The end grain would never have
> been visible, so I should have used rabbet joints.
>
> What's the best way to reinforce the miters for someone low in
> experience? I'm considering finish nails or a biscuit into the outside
> corner after gluing. More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
> holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
> installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
> to overengineer them.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
On 1 Jan 2007 15:13:30 -0800, "Greg Esres" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> More ambitious is to trying to drill accurate
>holes to allow a dowel to run perpendicular to joint orientation. Once
>installed, these units won't receive a lot of stress, so I don't want
>to overengineer them.
Doweling is actually relatively easy with a $50 jig. <G>
On the cheap, you could carpet tape a hardboard spacer to the front of
your biscuit joiner to eat up some of the plunge depth and cut the
biscuits down to fit.
You could cut slots with a 3 wing slot cutter in a router table and
use cut-down biscuits or shop-made splines. If you use the biscuits,
a 5/32" cutter will do the trick.
Pocket holes would work with the holes plugged, but you'd need to see
if the visible plugs might be too visible. If you're painting, these
might be my first choice.