Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
decided to see what he is up to.
I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
does not know how to clean out the waste.
I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick..
it looked like a tank.
I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how
to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
(sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned
as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need
to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
--
Jeff
In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
> them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
> might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me
Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous
tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
djb
--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes
In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> > I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools.
> > That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in
> > his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He
> > didn't argue against sharp tools
>
> Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't
> use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use
> a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more
> for construction tasks than fine woodworking).
>
> I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are
> fairly basic and completed with power tools.
I haven't read anyone say you are against sharp tools. You choose not
to sharpen.
That sharp tools are safer and produce better work is not a matter of
belief or opinion.
It is simple fact.
djb
--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
>> them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
>> might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me
>
>Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
>sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
>You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
>
>I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous
>tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
>
>djb
I still have the scars, 47 years later, from attempting to use a dull
jacknife to cut some willow twigs. Not sharp enough to cut the twigs
easily, but sharp enough to cut meat!!!!
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:02:12 PM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> wrote in message=20
>=20
> news:[email protected]...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>=20
> > does not know how to clean out the waste.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the=
=20
>=20
> >right of the rabbet.
>=20
> >I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front o=
f=20
>=20
> >the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush tr=
im=20
>=20
> >saw. I >needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent=
=20
>=20
> >blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and=
=20
>=20
> >lift them into the saw >cut for removal. Very effective.
>=20
> >This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out t=
he=20
>=20
> >wood to the front.
>=20
> >All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I would probably have done this waste removal in the same basic manner...=
=20
>=20
> This as it would have been real easy to blow out the short grain after th=
e=20
>=20
> saw cut as the stop cut wasn't a full stop cut, i.e., it didn't reach the=
=20
>=20
> full depth of the rabbet. The saw cut was at an angle, much like you'd g=
et=20
>=20
> sawing the pins for half blind dovetails, so you couldn't depend on a sim=
ple=20
>=20
> splitting action to remove the waste. You also couldn't risk chopping in=
to=20
>=20
> the saw cut as it would have been more likely to blow out the short grain=
at=20
>=20
> the end of the board than it would compress the waste wood in the rabbet.=
=20
>=20
> That was a tense bit of waste removal... and it was successful. The empha=
sis=20
>=20
> here on successful. ;~)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> John
It was a little hair raising. I probably should have explained the purpose=
of the saw cut. Sometimes I make the the mistake of assuming that the log=
ic behind certain tasks are obvious. When producing these videos, I run th=
e risk of too much commentary and not enough action. I 'think' I balance t=
his well, but maybe not; it's tough to please everyone, so they say, as mad=
e evident by this thread.
I am left vexed by how someone can criticize someones process when said pro=
cess is not unsafe, and produces the end result required in a reasonable am=
ount of time. =20
HerHusband <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to
> sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more
> experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns
> me.
>
*snip*
Send me one, I'll sharpen it and send it back to you. Then, you can
decide whether or not it's worth the effort to sharpen the rest.
I've had trouble with 1/4" chisels on the Work Sharp, so better make it
1/2" or larger.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
"HerHusband" wrote:
> I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn
> how to
> sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big
> priority
> since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of
> chisels
> when the old set got dull. :)
----------------------------------------------------------
Get a piece of plate glass and some sandpaper and you're in business
with scarysharp approach.
Lew
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided
> to see what he is up to.
>
> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane,
> when he should have been using a bench plane...
>
> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does
> not know how to clean out the waste.
>
> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick..
> it looked like a tank.
>
> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how
> to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing
> videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes)..
> but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an
> apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to
> hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
>
> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
If that bothers you, you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof
work.
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very sharp
>tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it comes down to
>brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a sharp tool can do its
I cannot think of a single scar on my body (outside of those made by people
paid to make them) that wasn't the result of me doing something wrong.
Fortunately for me, life has been a learning experience and the frequency
and rate of injury has gone way down over the passing decades. ;~)
John
On 3/31/2014 1:06 PM, HerHusband wrote:
> Dave,
>
>>> I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them.
>
>> You choose not to sharpen.
>
> It's not that I "choose" not to sharpen, I just haven't had the need or the
> knowledge/tools to sharpen them.
>
> The set of chisels I have now are probably 5-6 years old and I've probably
> only used them briefly four or five times. I used them last week to square
> up routed rabbet corners in a picture frame, probably the biggest task I've
> ever used them for. They're still about as sharp as the day I bought them.
> They seem to cut well when I have needed them.
>
> I have an older set of chisels that I use more for construction work. I've
> hit nails and everything else with them. They take a beating, but I never
> use them for fine detail work.
>
> I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn how to
> sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big priority
> since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of chisels
> when the old set got dull. :)
>
> In any case, my original post was meant to support Brian at
> GarageWoodworks, not delve into my personal sharpening habits. :)
>
> Anthony Watson
> www.watsondiy.com
> www.mountainsoftware.com
>
So I looked at your website. Nice work you have done...
Not sure how you work without ever really needing a chisel.
I find I use a chisel quite often.
As far as Brian goes, and I appreciate that you support him, but that
technique of rocking the chisel back and forth is really ugly. The
fibers were ripped like crazy. For me, that would not have been the way
I would have cut it. I use the tool to cut, chop.. Prying is left to
mortising. Twisting.... never.. it's not what the tool was designed for,
nor how it should be used. The result may have been ok, for him and
others, but for me, it was UGLY.
And the problem is that Brian is teaching people with these videos.. And
that's my problem.... teaching them right and there are more than one
right way... is fine.. teaching them that.. well, no..
--
Jeff
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>It was a little hair raising. I probably should have explained the purpose
>of the saw cut. Sometimes I make the the mistake of assuming that the
>logic >behind certain tasks are obvious. When producing these videos, I
>run the risk of too much commentary and not enough action. I 'think' I
>balance this well, >but maybe not; it's tough to please everyone, so they
>say, as made evident by this thread.
This is one of those things where having some feedback helps you get it
better the next time.... ;~) I've learned a lot from my "student's"
questions when I've lectured at Woodworkers Showcase, or taught classes, or
during may days interpreting at Colonial Williamsburg. It's the old story
of being so familiar with something that you assume everyone already knows
it or gets it.... That said, I've had some really off the wall questions
over the years... I remember a teenage kid at CW who was totally dismayed at
the question his father asked and his dismay was obvious to the entire
roomful of people. ;~)
>I am left vexed by how someone can criticize someones process when said
>process is not unsafe, and produces the end result required in a reasonable
> >amount of time.
I think we all have an "Ah Ha" moment... For example, I studied the
hand-cut dovetailing techniques of a lot of "experts" over the years and
there is a lot of variance. I can cut them like Tage Frid, or Frank Klaus,
or Chris Schwarz, or Roy Underhill, or like the "mirrors and 747 land light"
crowd in the magazines. They will all give good results as long as you keep
a few basic rules in mind. Whatever you cut first dictates what you cut
second... and make sure you cut in the waste. ;~) To make that point I
taught a dovetailing seminar one time where I used a different technique for
each pair of pins and tails and it still went together the first time
without fussing with it. One year I did the Frank Klaus approach, live in
front of an audience at Showcase, with no sliding bevel or ruler or
divider... again, it went together the first time with no fuss.
The "Ah Ha" happens when you see that there are often a LOT of different
ways to accomplish the same thing. That was one area where Norm Abram did a
good job over the years.... he used different techniques across shows to
accomplish the same task.
It's all good...
John
On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
>> them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
>> might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me
>
> Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
> sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
> You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
>
> I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous
> tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
>
> djb
>
My sharpening stones are in the house. I can sit and watch TV or listen
to music while sharpening.
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the
>right of the rabbet.
>I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of
>the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim
>saw. I >needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent
>blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and
>lift them into the saw >cut for removal. Very effective.
>This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the
>wood to the front.
>All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom.
I would probably have done this waste removal in the same basic manner...
This as it would have been real easy to blow out the short grain after the
saw cut as the stop cut wasn't a full stop cut, i.e., it didn't reach the
full depth of the rabbet. The saw cut was at an angle, much like you'd get
sawing the pins for half blind dovetails, so you couldn't depend on a simple
splitting action to remove the waste. You also couldn't risk chopping into
the saw cut as it would have been more likely to blow out the short grain at
the end of the board than it would compress the waste wood in the rabbet.
That was a tense bit of waste removal... and it was successful. The emphasis
here on successful. ;~)
John
Hi Brian,
>> using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane.
>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
> While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I
> took no offense, seriously.
I've been watching your videos for a long time and enjoyed the desk
organizer video too. I don't know why other posters have such an issue with
your techniques. There's more than one way to get a job done, and everyone
has their own way of doing things. I didn't see anything that looked
dangerous or foolish to me.
Many of us don't own an assortment of planes. I only own a small block
plane and rarely ever use it. I would probably have done something similar
to what you did, or would have figured out some way to accomplish the task
with a router (maybe a flush trim bit). Actually, I don't even own a
jointer, so I would probably just use my planer (with a sled if needed).
All that matters is you ended up with a flat surface.
I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me.
In any case, keep doing what you're doing. I find your videos enjoyable
and, like most woodworking videos, I usually learn something new. Seeing
how different people handle a task is more valuable to me than watching the
established proper method.
Keep up the good work!
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in news:970621852417882913.176691kac-
[email protected]:
> [...] you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof work.
I did.
My first thought, watching him holding a router in one hand and the workpiece in the other was
"What an idiot. Doesn't he know what clamps are for?".
Then I saw his left hand ... and realized, no, he doesn't.
Mike,
> I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools.
> That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in
> his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He
> didn't argue against sharp tools
Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't
use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use
a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more
for construction tasks than fine woodworking).
I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are
fairly basic and completed with power tools.
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
Dave,
>> I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them.
> You choose not to sharpen.
It's not that I "choose" not to sharpen, I just haven't had the need or the
knowledge/tools to sharpen them.
The set of chisels I have now are probably 5-6 years old and I've probably
only used them briefly four or five times. I used them last week to square
up routed rabbet corners in a picture frame, probably the biggest task I've
ever used them for. They're still about as sharp as the day I bought them.
They seem to cut well when I have needed them.
I have an older set of chisels that I use more for construction work. I've
hit nails and everything else with them. They take a beating, but I never
use them for fine detail work.
I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn how to
sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big priority
since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of chisels
when the old set got dull. :)
In any case, my original post was meant to support Brian at
GarageWoodworks, not delve into my personal sharpening habits. :)
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
On 3/30/2014 9:36 AM, Swingman wrote:
> woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided
>> to see what he is up to.
>>
>> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane,
>> when he should have been using a bench plane...
>>
>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does
>> not know how to clean out the waste.
>>
>> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick..
>> it looked like a tank.
>>
>> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how
>> to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing
>> videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes)..
>> but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an
>> apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to
>> hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
>>
>> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
>> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>
> If that bothers you, you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof
> work.
>
Especially when he cut of one of his finger tips.
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:41:48 AM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
> On 3/30/2014 11:25 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>=20
> >> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> decided to see what he is up to.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > - I much prefer the feel of my block plane in my hand and it far out pe=
rforms 'my' bench plane in cut quality.
>=20
> > - The block plane did the job that I needed done to high standards. Th=
e job at hand was getting the waste left by the jointer flush with the join=
ted side. This can be felt with a finger swipe to the thousands of an inch=
. Some regions along the length need to be hit harder than others because =
of the variation in the rough lumber. Some regions are not touched w/ the =
block plane. A block plane is perfect for this.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> No a block plane is not perfect.. a bench plane is, it levels to a=20
>=20
> larger area. A block plane works small areas, or chamfers. Like I said=
=20
>=20
> this may have been nitpicking.. And this was not that... critical. Why=20
>=20
> does your block plane exceed your bench plane, because it is a veritas=20
>=20
> block plane that cost more? or because the blade on your bench plane is=
=20
>=20
> not sharp. Or is it technique?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the =
right of the rabbet.
>=20
> > I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front =
of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush tr=
im saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent b=
low out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lif=
t them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective.
>=20
> > This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out =
the wood to the front.
>=20
> > All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > It's difficult to tell at 600X speed but this process was done with gre=
at precision and caution and was very successful.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> Nice twist Brian, but I had no problem with the saw. Your chisel=20
>=20
> technique is horrendous. You can twist that to your sawing. I=20
>=20
> specifically referenced your chiseling. It was awful. Use the cutting=20
>=20
> edge.. Don't twist it like a screw driver.. It was ugly, and there was=20
>=20
> not a lot of precision the way you handled it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick=
..
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> it looked like a tank.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > The customer (wife) wanted 1/2" and this is what was delivered.
>=20
> > I appreciate your opinion on this but I bet if you saw it in person
>=20
> > you'd like it more.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of ho=
w
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learn=
ed
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all ne=
ed
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian,
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I =
took no offense, seriously. The fan mail I receive, on a weekly basis, fro=
m people all around the world describing to me how I've taught them woodwor=
king and how I've 'raised their game' far out weight your comments. :)
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> but I felt
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I've heard from people in the past that say, while I'm a good woodworke=
r,
>=20
> > I do not always follow 'convention' (here's one : http://froggybuilder.=
com/index.php/resources).
>=20
> > It's my opinion that the ones that feel this way are usually taught 'co=
nvention' from woodworking classes in a more traditional manner.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I'd agree that I don't always follow convention, and that my philosophy=
on woodworking isn't to make sure I am using the traditional hand plane fo=
r the job, that follows convention, but to make sure that I am using the to=
ol that will get the job done to the standards that I hold.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> --
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Jeff
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> Jeff
Maybe I wasn't clear. Let me try again:
I cut the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chis=
el to 'lift and tear' (TWISTING MOTION) the wood fibers and lift them into =
the saw cut for removal. Very effective. Again, this was the bottom of th=
e piece where plywood has to sit. My only concern was preventing blowout.
This was done with great precision and was very effective. Not sure why th=
is
is such a sticking point for you. =20
My impression of you, based on what little I've read by you and your choice=
of words, that your goal here is more about attacking me than providing ho=
nest criticism.
Because of this, I feel it is pointless to continue. You may continue, as I=
'm sure you will, to spew your garbage, but I will save you the trouble of =
looking for a response from me. =20
Because you responded so quickly to my last, I know you are just salivating=
to respond to this one.
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I=20
>=20
> decided to see what he is up to.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block=20
>=20
> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
- I much prefer the feel of my block plane in my hand and it far out perfor=
ms 'my' bench plane in cut quality.
- The block plane did the job that I needed done to high standards. The jo=
b at hand was getting the waste left by the jointer flush with the jointed =
side. This can be felt with a finger swipe to the thousands of an inch. S=
ome regions along the length need to be hit harder than others because of t=
he variation in the rough lumber. Some regions are not touched w/ the bloc=
k plane. A block plane is perfect for this. =20
>=20
>=20
> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he=20
>=20
> does not know how to clean out the waste.
Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the righ=
t of the rabbet.
I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of t=
he piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim s=
aw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow =
out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift th=
em into the saw cut for removal. Very effective.
This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the =
wood to the front.
All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom. =20
It's difficult to tell at 600X speed but this process was done with great p=
recision and caution and was very successful.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick..=
=20
>=20
> it looked like a tank.
The customer (wife) wanted 1/2" and this is what was delivered. =20
I appreciate your opinion on this but I bet if you saw it in person
you'd like it more.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how=
=20
>=20
> to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people=20
>=20
> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas=20
>=20
> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned=
=20
>=20
> as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need=
=20
>=20
> to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian,=20
While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took=
no offense, seriously. The fan mail I receive, on a weekly basis, from pe=
ople all around the world describing to me how I've taught them woodworking=
and how I've 'raised their game' far out weight your comments. :)
>but I felt=20
>=20
> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
I've heard from people in the past that say, while I'm a good woodworker,=
=20
I do not always follow 'convention' (here's one : http://froggybuilder.com/=
index.php/resources).
It's my opinion that the ones that feel this way are usually taught 'conven=
tion' from woodworking classes in a more traditional manner.
I'd agree that I don't always follow convention, and that my philosophy on =
woodworking isn't to make sure I am using the traditional hand plane for th=
e job, that follows convention, but to make sure that I am using the tool t=
hat will get the job done to the standards that I hold. =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> Jeff
On 3/30/2014 1:36 PM, HerHusband wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
>>> using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane.
>>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>
>> While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I
>> took no offense, seriously.
>
> I've been watching your videos for a long time and enjoyed the desk
> organizer video too. I don't know why other posters have such an issue with
> your techniques. There's more than one way to get a job done, and everyone
> has their own way of doing things. I didn't see anything that looked
> dangerous or foolish to me.
>
> Many of us don't own an assortment of planes. I only own a small block
> plane and rarely ever use it. I would probably have done something similar
> to what you did, or would have figured out some way to accomplish the task
> with a router (maybe a flush trim bit). Actually, I don't even own a
> jointer, so I would probably just use my planer (with a sled if needed).
> All that matters is you ended up with a flat surface.
>
> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
> them.
a dull tool is the most dangerous tool. You have to put so much more
pressure and effort into cutting. And that is what a chisel does cut...
not pry and tear the waste to precision.
So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
> might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me.
>
> In any case, keep doing what you're doing. I find your videos enjoyable
> and, like most woodworking videos, I usually learn something new. Seeing
> how different people handle a task is more valuable to me than watching the
> established proper method.
>
> Keep up the good work!
>
> Anthony Watson
> www.watsondiy.com
> www.mountainsoftware.com
>
--
Jeff
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone
>Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
>sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
>You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
In addition to that, there's a particular sense of satisfaction one
gets from using a sharp tool that you just can't get from struggling
with one that is dull.
woodchucker wrote:
> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
> decided to see what he is up to.
>
> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>
> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>
> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less
> thick.. it looked like a tank.
>
> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of
> how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you
> learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer,
> we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to
> do it.
>
> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>
Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to
"pry" with it?
Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something else?
I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that
what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the operations
(and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't claim to be
upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it seems hard to be
too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to become expert in
every aspect before they can make any videos, then we might not get
any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive criticism. I know I would!
Cheers,
Bill
Bill wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
>> decided to see what he is up to.
>>
>> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
>> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>>
>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>>
>> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less
>> thick.. it looked like a tank.
>>
>> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of
>> how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
>> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
>> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you
>> learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer,
>> we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT
>> to do it.
>>
>> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
>> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>>
> Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to
> "pry" with it?
> Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something
> else?
>
> I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that
> what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the
> operations (and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't
> claim to be upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it
> seems hard to be too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to
> become expert in every aspect before they can make any videos, then we
> might not get any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive
> criticism. I know I would!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
I watched the same video again and one more. To me, it seems like
"safety" is the thing that mostly needs to be taught. A beginner could
walk away with the idea that it's cool to be "cavalier". When I think
back to my h.s. shop classes, "safety" is the one of the things that I'm
most grateful for learning about. How does a beginner get those
lessons? Blood? Maybe it's better if ones starts with hand tools...
woodchucker wrote:
> On 3/29/2014 9:30 PM, Bill wrote:
>> woodchucker wrote:
>>> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
>>> decided to see what he is up to.
>>>
>>> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
>>> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>>>
>>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>>>
>>> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less
>>> thick.. it looked like a tank.
>>>
>>> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of
>>> how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
>>> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
>>> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you
>>> learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer,
>>> we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to
>>> do it.
>>>
>>> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
>>> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>>>
>> Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to
>> "pry" with it?
>
> If you mean the twisting back and forth yes, otherwise prying is
> sought of ok... we pry when mortising, but we never twist when
> wasting... you just push forward, or for heavier work, you tap with a
> mallet. For this, you just push , and use your body for light
> wasting. For very light you use your arms. With a sharp chisel that
> should have been butter. Even maple just cuts easily for that. That
> chisel was treated like a screwdriver. A gouge on the other hand can
> be used that way.... well sought of, you can rotate the gouge back and
> forth to cut
>
> I had no problem with his using a saw to stop the cut.. I would have
> just used a chisel strike. But that's a matter of preference.
Thank you for the clarification!
Bill
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to
>>> sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with
>>> more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it
>>> concerns me
>>
>> Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
>> sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
>> You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
>>
>> I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most
>> dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
>>
>> djb
>>
>
> My sharpening stones are in the house. I can sit and watch TV or
> listen to music while sharpening.
I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools. Any
knife I own will easily shave hair, my chisels will shave hair, and I also
believe that dull tools cause more injuries and ruin more wood than sharp
tools. That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to
in his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He
didn't argue against sharp tools - simply stated what life is like in his
world. Not matter what those of us who believe in sharp tools believe,
there is a world of people out there who don't hold to that. He simply
stated that he's one of those. He wasn't making excuses. He wasn't arguing
against sharp tools.
It pays for people who are going to respond to a comment to first read what
the posted stated.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to
>>> sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with
>>> more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it
>>> concerns me
>>
>> Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
>> sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
>> You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
>>
>> I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most
>> dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
>>
>> djb
> I still have the scars, 47 years later, from attempting to use a dull
> jacknife to cut some willow twigs. Not sharp enough to cut the twigs
> easily, but sharp enough to cut meat!!!!
I get what you are saying Clare, and as I said - it's my contention that
dull tools cause more harm than sharp tools (at least those intended to be
sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very sharp
tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it comes down to
brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a sharp tool can do its
job better than a dull tool and we carry the scars of that as well.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
HerHusband" <[email protected]> wrote
> Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't
> use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use
> a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more
> for construction tasks than fine woodworking).
>
> I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are
> fairly basic and completed with power tools.
You should do like I do.
You owe it to yourself a to go out and get a low to mid priced new set of
chisels. Like some metal ended Stanley's. Put them where they will not get
used for rough construction. A small amount of discipline means you go back
to the toolbox and get your old beater chisels out when you want to get
rough with a chisel. Then take your old beater chisels and with a cup of
water or oil to frequently dip and keep them cool, hit them up on the bench
grinder of stationary sanding disk, and get them back to a good profile, and
roughly sharp. Sure, they are not like they would be with a wet stone, but
who cares. They are for rough work, and not perfect, but at least they can
be close to sharp.
Then you have the best of both worlds, even if you are not in the hand tool
world all that often, you with be able to do it the best you can, and
safely, as a bonus.
--
Jim in NC
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very
>> sharp tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it
>> comes down to brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a
>> sharp tool can do its
>
> I cannot think of a single scar on my body (outside of those made by
> people paid to make them) that wasn't the result of me doing
> something wrong. Fortunately for me, life has been a learning
> experience and the frequency and rate of injury has gone way down
> over the passing decades. ;~)
Wish I could say that John, but I have a couple of puncture sites where very
sharp knives found fles because I was cutting in a bad way, a dandy where a
brand new hacksaw blade found its way to the bone in a finger, and stuff
like that. I (probably) every case, it was where I was doing something
wrong at the time.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>>> I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools.
>>> That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in
>>> his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He
>>> didn't argue against sharp tools
>> Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't
>> use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use
>> a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more
>> for construction tasks than fine woodworking).
>>
>> I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are
>> fairly basic and completed with power tools.
> I haven't read anyone say you are against sharp tools. You choose not
> to sharpen.
>
> That sharp tools are safer and produce better work is not a matter of
> belief or opinion.
>
> It is simple fact.
I remembered that lesson a few seconds after I jammed by hand into the
corner of my workbench a year or two ago.
I counted myself lucky!
>
> djb
>
On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, HerHusband
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen
>> them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience
>> might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me
>
> Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with
> sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece.
> You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing.
>
> I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous
> tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that.
>
> djb
>
Exactly, you wind up putting more pressure into it, and it can let loose
and fly... A sharp tool does the job safely.
--
Jeff
On 3/29/2014 9:30 PM, Bill wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
>> decided to see what he is up to.
>>
>> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
>> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>>
>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>>
>> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less
>> thick.. it looked like a tank.
>>
>> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of
>> how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
>> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
>> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you
>> learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer,
>> we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to
>> do it.
>>
>> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt
>> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>>
> Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to
> "pry" with it?
If you mean the twisting back and forth yes, otherwise prying is sought
of ok... we pry when mortising, but we never twist when wasting... you
just push forward, or for heavier work, you tap with a mallet. For this,
you just push , and use your body for light wasting. For very light you
use your arms. With a sharp chisel that should have been butter. Even
maple just cuts easily for that. That chisel was treated like a
screwdriver. A gouge on the other hand can be used that way.... well
sought of, you can rotate the gouge back and forth to cut
I had no problem with his using a saw to stop the cut.. I would have
just used a chisel strike. But that's a matter of preference.
> Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something else?
>
> I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that
> what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the operations
> (and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't claim to be
> upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it seems hard to be
> too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to become expert in
> every aspect before they can make any videos, then we might not get
> any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive criticism. I know I would!
>
Well for a beginner teaching bad habits or wrong technique just teaches
the person the wrong way.. which then becomes gospel to the beginner
because they saw someone they trusted doing it.
> Cheers,
> Bill
--
Jeff
On 3/30/2014 11:25 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>> Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
>>
>> decided to see what he is up to.
>>
>>
>>
>> I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block
>>
>> plane, when he should have been using a bench plane...
>
>
> - I much prefer the feel of my block plane in my hand and it far out performs 'my' bench plane in cut quality.
> - The block plane did the job that I needed done to high standards. The job at hand was getting the waste left by the jointer flush with the jointed side. This can be felt with a finger swipe to the thousands of an inch. Some regions along the length need to be hit harder than others because of the variation in the rough lumber. Some regions are not touched w/ the block plane. A block plane is perfect for this.
>>
No a block plane is not perfect.. a bench plane is, it levels to a
larger area. A block plane works small areas, or chamfers. Like I said
this may have been nitpicking.. And this was not that... critical. Why
does your block plane exceed your bench plane, because it is a veritas
block plane that cost more? or because the blade on your bench plane is
not sharp. Or is it technique?
>>
>> He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he
>>
>> does not know how to clean out the waste.
>
> Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the right of the rabbet.
> I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective.
> This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the wood to the front.
> All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom.
>
> It's difficult to tell at 600X speed but this process was done with great precision and caution and was very successful.
>
>
Nice twist Brian, but I had no problem with the saw. Your chisel
technique is horrendous. You can twist that to your sawing. I
specifically referenced your chiseling. It was awful. Use the cutting
edge.. Don't twist it like a screw driver.. It was ugly, and there was
not a lot of precision the way you handled it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick..
>>
>> it looked like a tank.
>
>
> The customer (wife) wanted 1/2" and this is what was delivered.
> I appreciate your opinion on this but I bet if you saw it in person
> you'd like it more.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how
>>
>> to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people
>>
>> producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas
>>
>> (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned
>>
>> as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need
>>
>> to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian,
>
>
> While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took no offense, seriously. The fan mail I receive, on a weekly basis, from people all around the world describing to me how I've taught them woodworking and how I've 'raised their game' far out weight your comments. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>> but I felt
>>
>> embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel.
>
> I've heard from people in the past that say, while I'm a good woodworker,
> I do not always follow 'convention' (here's one : http://froggybuilder.com/index.php/resources).
> It's my opinion that the ones that feel this way are usually taught 'convention' from woodworking classes in a more traditional manner.
>
> I'd agree that I don't always follow convention, and that my philosophy on woodworking isn't to make sure I am using the traditional hand plane for the job, that follows convention, but to make sure that I am using the tool that will get the job done to the standards that I hold.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeff
>
--
Jeff