I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
same as written below, and await his thoughts.
In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
is that input I ask once more.
I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24" doesn't
offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos 20"'ers.
(But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
Have you noticed that if you ask a hammer saleman what you need, the answer
is always a hammer?
The salespeople at all but Grizzley (haven't called them, yet) seem as
interested in bashing the competition as selling a product! :>(
The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has more weight
but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needing 20"
resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
blade at cost ($100).
Finally Grizzley again: specs at
http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/G3619_ds.pdf?
The web site for description and cost:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G3619
Note that this size is what it would take to approximate the resaw capacity
of the others. And the others offer on the floor delivery, but Grizzley
suggests a freight depot (I have a lift-gate on my pickup, however).
The next wood show in Florida is a while away and much farther from home
this time... and Grizz hasn't come to our show before so a "hands on" for
their product may be impossible.
What to do, what to do...
If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much machine a
hands on trip would definitely be in order.
"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
>same as written below, and await his thoughts.
> In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
> is that input I ask once more.
>
> I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
> find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24"
> doesn't offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos
> 20"'ers. (But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
>
> I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
>
> Have you noticed that if you ask a hammer saleman what you need, the
> answer is always a hammer?
> The salespeople at all but Grizzley (haven't called them, yet) seem as
> interested in bashing the competition as selling a product! :>(
>
> The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has more weight
> but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needing 20"
> resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
>
> The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
> greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
> better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
> while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
>
> Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
> blade at cost ($100).
>
> Finally Grizzley again: specs at
> http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/G3619_ds.pdf?
> The web site for description and cost:
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G3619
> Note that this size is what it would take to approximate the resaw
> capacity of the others. And the others offer on the floor delivery, but
> Grizzley suggests a freight depot (I have a lift-gate on my pickup,
> however).
>
> The next wood show in Florida is a while away and much farther from home
> this time... and Grizz hasn't come to our show before so a "hands on" for
> their product may be impossible.
>
> What to do, what to do...
>
Thomas Bunetta wrote:
> Agreed, but where to see them all is the problem... Grizzley usually
doesn't
> come to our shows.
>
>
> "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much
machine a
> > hands on trip would definitely be in order.
> >
> >
> <snipped 4 BW)
Tom:
I would highly recomend the Mini Max.......IMHO it is the best saw and
best value....this is the last bandsaw you will ever need to buy.
Mini Max's customer service is legandary. You deserve the highest
quality ...do notsettle for price...it is soon forgotten
Mike from American Sycamore
I bought a MM16 about three months ago and love it. I also looked at
Grizzly and Laguna (I even visited the Laguna headquarters on a trip to
LA).
If you look at the saws in person you will quickly see that the Laguna
and Minimax are in a different class than the Grizzly. Much sturdier
and seemingly better construction (and even a few labels in Italian).
So, I quickly ruled out the Grizzly. My motto is "buy once, cry once"
-- as in crying over the price. I wanted a saw that I would be happy
with for 20 years and I have no doubts that the MM will do that. I
have nothing against Grizzly. I have a Grizzly tablesaw and it is
fantastic -- I would buy it again over a Unisaw any day.
So, that brings it down to Laguna and MM. Both saws are high quality.
I think that laguna's block guides or whatever they call them are
something of a marketing ploy. These are a *slight* variation on the
blocks used on old saws. I'm not impressed by patent pending -- I used
to be a patent attorney and let me say that the standards in the US are
VERY low when it comes to what is deserving of a patent. And patent
pending doesn't mean that they will get a patent -- it means they have
applied.
Getting back to the saws. I felt that the MM was more massive than the
Laguna. Everything on it is heavier gauge than the Laguna. I have to
admit that the Laguna looks slicker .... grey and black with that nice
looking Laguna logo on it. But, if you start looking at the details,
like the frame and the mechanism that lowers toward the table and holds
the guides I think you'll find that the MM is heftier than the Laguna.
I also found the MM sales people to be far more helpful. Many of the
folks at Laguna that I talked to were outright arogant. I visited
there headquarters in LA and it started with the receptionist at the
front desk. I would hate to have to deal with them on a customer
support issue.
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:06:17 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> spake:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:03:50 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
>> <[email protected]> spake:
><Snipped>
>> Jewelcome. Now go buy that Minimax if you're too much of a wuss to buy
>> the Griz. Crikey, I just looked at their prices. <thud>
>>
>Resawing boards of up to 12" and/or glue ups wider still.
>Max use of lumber, minimum waste of good cherry (or what have you).
How much of this are you planning on doing? Enough to justify the
nearly $4k that Minimax wants for the 24", or about $2.5k for the
little M16? (I had trouble wrestling a pair of crowbars to get
$695 out of my wallet for the G1012. ;)
========================================================
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================
Agreed, but where to see them all is the problem... Grizzley usually doesn't
come to our shows.
"Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much machine a
> hands on trip would definitely be in order.
>
>
<snipped 4 BW)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thomas Bunetta wrote:
>> Agreed, but where to see them all is the problem... Grizzley usually
> doesn't
>> come to our shows.
>>
>>
>> "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much
> machine a
>> > hands on trip would definitely be in order.
>> >
>> >
>> <snipped 4 BW)
>
> Tom:
> I would highly recomend the Mini Max.......IMHO it is the best saw and
> best value....this is the last bandsaw you will ever need to buy.
> Mini Max's customer service is legandary. You deserve the highest
> quality ...do notsettle for price...it is soon forgotten
> Mike from American Sycamore
>
Thanks Mike,
I still wonder about the guides (can be added for a price$$). The ceramic
has pros and cons, the biggest pro is the generally non-wearing quality. The
cons are the possibility of blade wear from improperly adjusted guides and
sparking.
Tom
>> <snipped 4 BW)
>
> Tom:
> I would highly recomend the Mini Max.......IMHO it is the best saw and
> best value....this is the last bandsaw you will ever need to buy.
> Mini Max's customer service is legandary. You deserve the highest
> quality ...do notsettle for price...it is soon forgotten
> Mike from American Sycamore
>
You guys are pushing me closer to the crowbar!
No bigger Grizzley experiences?o
Tom
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike
>
> I second the recommendation for MiniMax. Couple years ago
> I went thru the same quest, and settled on the MM24. MM just gave me
> the facts, and did NOT bad mouth the competition. Laguana spent all
> their time bad mouthing everyone else.
>
> I am TOTALLY happy with the MM24 and would buy again - even though the
> price NOW is higher than it was when I bought it a while back
>
> John
>
> On 26 Jan 2005 08:49:50 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Thomas Bunetta wrote:
>>> Agreed, but where to see them all is the problem... Grizzley usually
>>doesn't
>>> come to our shows.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>> > If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much
>>machine a
>>> > hands on trip would definitely be in order.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> <snipped 4 BW)
>>
>>Tom:
>>I would highly recomend the Mini Max.......IMHO it is the best saw and
>>best value....this is the last bandsaw you will ever need to buy.
>>Mini Max's customer service is legandary. You deserve the highest
>>quality ...do notsettle for price...it is soon forgotten
>>Mike from American Sycamore
>
>
<snip>
>
> Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
> you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
> Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
Mea Culpa... my spiel chucker didn't like "grizzly" <G>
> What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
> saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
> huh?)
Logs are one thing, but veneers and panels are the primary resaw use.
>
<snip>>
> Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
> At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
It does, or stellite... I don't remember which at the moment.
>
<snip>
> See? No "e".
OK, OK I get it <grin>.
>
<snip>> I didn't order floor delivery but my G1012 came on a liftgate and
the
> guy wheeled it to my specified drop point with no problem. It all
> depends on who your freight company is and the attitude of the driver.
> That probably goes for all the mfgrs, not just Griz.
<snip>
Both Laguna and Minimax tell me they will "put it on the floor, Griz simply
states it's my responsibility to get it off the truck, and suggests a
forklift.
> You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
> http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
> "Muncy", either.) <bseg>
Ha! I seldom get out of Englewood!
Thanks for your input (and the chiding ;>).
Tom
<snip>
<snip>
>
> Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
> you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
> Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
Mea Culpa... my spiel chucker didn't like "grizzly" <G>
> What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
> saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
> huh?)
Logs are one thing, but veneers and panels are the primary resaw use.
>
<snip>>
> Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
> At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
It does, or stellite... I don't remember which at the moment.
>
<snip>
> See? No "e".
OK, OK I get it <grin>.
>
<snip>> I didn't order floor delivery but my G1012 came on a liftgate and
the
> guy wheeled it to my specified drop point with no problem. It all
> depends on who your freight company is and the attitude of the driver.
> That probably goes for all the mfgrs, not just Griz.
<snip>
Both Laguna and Minimax tell me they will "put it on the floor, Griz simply
states it's my responsibility to get it off the truck, and suggests a
forklift.
> You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
> http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
> "Muncy", either.) <bseg>
Ha! I seldom get out of Englewood!
Thanks for your input (and the chiding ;>).
Tom
<snip>
<snip>
>
> Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
> you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
> Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
Mea Culpa... my spiel chucker didn't like "grizzly" <G>
> What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
> saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
> huh?)
Logs are one thing, but veneers and panels are the primary resaw use.
>
<snip>>
> Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
> At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
It does, or stellite... I don't remember which at the moment.
>
<snip>
> See? No "e".
OK, OK I get it <grin>.
>
<snip>> I didn't order floor delivery but my G1012 came on a liftgate and
the
> guy wheeled it to my specified drop point with no problem. It all
> depends on who your freight company is and the attitude of the driver.
> That probably goes for all the mfgrs, not just Griz.
<snip>
Both Laguna and Minimax tell me they will "put it on the floor, Griz simply
states it's my responsibility to get it off the truck, and suggests a
forklift.
> You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
> http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
> "Muncy", either.) <bseg>
Ha! I seldom get out of Englewood!
Thanks for your input (and the chiding ;>).
Tom
<snip>
"Bob Schmall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<my stuff snipped>
> Tom:
> Bandsaw guru Mark Duginske told me face-to-face that my Italian-made
> Laguna 16LT was a very good saw but that their larger saws are now made in
> Bulgaria, leading him to question the level of their goodness.He has been
> quoted in Agazzani's ads, and after meeting him I doubt that he did it
> just for the money. OTOH, he has a Minimax in his shop (20'?); I know
> because he demo'ed it for us guys in the class. He also appeared at the
> last Milwaukee wood show handling the Minimax display.
> Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either of the last two
> saws mentioned, but Minimax would probably have better availability than
> Agazzani. This is a bit speculative, of course.
>
> Bob
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your comments and time...
Wow! a better recommendation can't be found (Mark Duginske).
OK, I guess my quest is over.
Minimax wins by a length!
It'll be a couple of weeks before the money becomes available, then I'll
place the order!
I'll review and post, of course.
I'm also working on a Woodrat review (part one) I'll post soon.
Thanks for your insight, and your time.
Tom
<[email protected]> wrote in message <snipped 4 BW>>
> don't overlook bridgewood. their larger bandsaws are italian made and
> in the same class as the MM and laguna.
> <http://www.wilkemachinery.com/OnlineCatalogDetailResults.tpl?SearchDetail=3039417982169&PreviousCategory=Bandsaws>
>
Nice saws, but the 20" equivalent is American, not Italian and the bigger
saws are all 3 phase.
I got an email from the Minimax guy, and the deal gets sweeter if I wait for
the Orlando show.
If I do though, I'll have to haul it all the way back from there to my
place.
Tom
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:03:50 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
> <[email protected]> spake:
<Snipped>
> Jewelcome. Now go buy that Minimax if you're too much of a wuss to buy
> the Griz. Crikey, I just looked at their prices. <thud>
>
Resawing boards of up to 12" and/or glue ups wider still.
Max use of lumber, minimum waste of good cherry (or what have you).
Tom
Thanks Larry, I had already read that one (and the Laguna forum had a
stinging counterpoint reply to the article). That and other posts there had
convinced me they were not the kind of people I like to associate with.
Tom
<snip>> Interesting article for ya:
> http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=reviews&file=articles_206.shtml
>
>
<snip>
<snip>
>
> Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
> you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
> Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
Mea Culpa... my spiel chucker didn't like "grizzly" <G>
> What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
> saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
> huh?)
Logs are one thing, but veneers and panels are the primary resaw use.
>
<snip>>
> Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
> At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
It does, or stellite... I don't remember which at the moment.
>
<snip>
> See? No "e".
OK, OK I get it <grin>.
>
<snip>> I didn't order floor delivery but my G1012 came on a liftgate and
the
> guy wheeled it to my specified drop point with no problem. It all
> depends on who your freight company is and the attitude of the driver.
> That probably goes for all the mfgrs, not just Griz.
<snip>
Both Laguna and Minimax tell me they will "put it on the floor, Griz simply
states it's my responsibility to get it off the truck, and suggests a
forklift.
> You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
> http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
> "Muncy", either.) <bseg>
Ha! I seldom get out of Englewood!
Thanks for your input (and the chiding ;>).
Tom
<snip>
<snip>
> How much of this are you planning on doing? Enough to justify the
> nearly $4k that Minimax wants for the 24", or about $2.5k for the
> little M16? (I had trouble wrestling a pair of crowbars to get
> $695 out of my wallet for the G1012. ;)
>
If you/re asking am I going into production... no, not yet ;<) but I do
believe in the "buy once, cry once" line of thinking.
I'm looking at the 20 inch saw, not the 24" (that was the Grizzly (note: no
E).
It's just money, but the resale value of better tools seems to hold up
reasonably well and should serve my present and anticipated needs for quite
some time to come.
My little Jet 14" has frustrated me on numerous occasions with its limited
capacity... A couple of weeks ago I was slicing a log of spalted pecan, and
had to waste more that I'd like due to the under 6" limit.
One day I'll want a lathe, and cutting bowl blanks or larger chunks of
crotch or burl will now be possible.
Tom
This is about the best "drive by" I've seen in a while.
In SW Florida there isn't as much availability for log hunting... but every
now and then I get a few smaller interesting pieces.
For now I will see the greatest use in slicing panels, rather than planing
it away.
Tom
"Denis Marier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am shopping for an 18" bandsaw.
> In the meantime I am using the service of a portable bandsaw mill
contractor
> His hourly fee is $45.00 CAD.
<suckage snipped!;>)
If you want pine or oak, yes. I have gotten some lace wood (silk oak) as
well. I have never seen cherry or more than a few maple trees though.
Tom
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>> I'd think there'd be a lot of opportunity for log hunting -- A
> combination of residential/urban areas and big winds.
>
> That's the way it works around here, anyway.
>
> --RC
> "Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
> 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
> fly with a club.
> -- John W. Cambell Jr.
If you want pine or oak, yes. I have gotten some lace wood (silk oak) as
well. I have never seen cherry or more than a few maple trees though.
Tom
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>> I'd think there'd be a lot of opportunity for log hunting -- A
> combination of residential/urban areas and big winds.
>
> That's the way it works around here, anyway.
>
> --RC
> "Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
> 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
> fly with a club.
> -- John W. Cambell Jr.
By the way, my MM24 is clearly marked Centauro, Italy
John
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:57:29 GMT, "Bob Schmall" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
>>same as written below, and await his thoughts.
>> In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
>> is that input I ask once more.
>>
>> I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
>> find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24"
>> doesn't offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos
>> 20"'ers. (But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
>>
>> I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
>
>(snip of excellent hammer salesman example)
>
>> The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has more weight
>> but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needing 20"
>> resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
>>
>> The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
>> greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
>> better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
>> while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
>>
>> Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
>> blade at cost ($100).
>
>(snip of good stuff)
>
>> What to do, what to do...
>
>Tom:
>Bandsaw guru Mark Duginske told me face-to-face that my Italian-made Laguna
>16LT was a very good saw but that their larger saws are now made in
>Bulgaria, leading him to question the level of their goodness.He has been
>quoted in Agazzani's ads, and after meeting him I doubt that he did it just
>for the money. OTOH, he has a Minimax in his shop (20'?); I know because he
>demo'ed it for us guys in the class. He also appeared at the last Milwaukee
>wood show handling the Minimax display.
>Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either of the last two
>saws mentioned, but Minimax would probably have better availability than
>Agazzani. This is a bit speculative, of course.
>
>Bob
>
>>
>>
>
Mike
I second the recommendation for MiniMax. Couple years ago
I went thru the same quest, and settled on the MM24. MM just gave me
the facts, and did NOT bad mouth the competition. Laguana spent all
their time bad mouthing everyone else.
I am TOTALLY happy with the MM24 and would buy again - even though the
price NOW is higher than it was when I bought it a while back
John
On 26 Jan 2005 08:49:50 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>Thomas Bunetta wrote:
>> Agreed, but where to see them all is the problem... Grizzley usually
>doesn't
>> come to our shows.
>>
>>
>> "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > If I were planning on spending that kind of money on that much
>machine a
>> > hands on trip would definitely be in order.
>> >
>> >
>> <snipped 4 BW)
>
>Tom:
>I would highly recomend the Mini Max.......IMHO it is the best saw and
>best value....this is the last bandsaw you will ever need to buy.
>Mini Max's customer service is legandary. You deserve the highest
>quality ...do notsettle for price...it is soon forgotten
>Mike from American Sycamore
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:54:47 -0500, "Stephen M"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I also found the MM sales people to be far more helpful. Many of the
>> folks at Laguna that I talked to were outright arogant.
>
>
>When I was shopping last year, that was exactly my impression. Not that
>pre-sales support is necessarily an indication of anything other than just
>that. But it is interesting to me that my observation was not unique.
>
>-Steve
>
In my book pre-sales support is the single best indicator of
post-sales support. If they don't take care of you when they're trying
to get your money, they're not likely to do any better once they've
got your money.
Maybe it's time to cross Laguna off my wish list.
--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:30:49 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> spake:
<snip>
>> How much of this are you planning on doing? Enough to justify the
>> nearly $4k that Minimax wants for the 24", or about $2.5k for the
>> little M16? (I had trouble wrestling a pair of crowbars to get
>> $695 out of my wallet for the G1012. ;)
>>
>If you/re asking am I going into production... no, not yet ;<) but I do
>believe in the "buy once, cry once" line of thinking.
People used to buy entire homes for the price of a Minimax nowadays.
Maybe I'm just too frugal. I still have a whole lot of trouble with
those pesky commas in prices. =:-0
>I'm looking at the 20 inch saw, not the 24" (that was the Grizzly (note: no
>E).
Nice new trick, old dog. ;) (Kudos.)
>It's just money, but the resale value of better tools seems to hold up
>reasonably well and should serve my present and anticipated needs for quite
>some time to come.
Resale value? Most tools made today will outlast us (given minor
maintenance) if only semi-well made.
>My little Jet 14" has frustrated me on numerous occasions with its limited
>capacity... A couple of weeks ago I was slicing a log of spalted pecan, and
>had to waste more that I'd like due to the under 6" limit.
>One day I'll want a lathe, and cutting bowl blanks or larger chunks of
>crotch or burl will now be possible.
Yeah, a 14-incher isn't meant to resaw. The G1012 can handle 10", and
that's decent enough for me.
========================================================
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================
I am shopping for an 18" bandsaw.
In the meantime I am using the service of a portable bandsaw mill contractor
His hourly fee is $45.00 CAD.
The last time we downed some eastern pine trees. We then cut them in 12
foot lengths and saw them to 4/4 and 8/4 thick. The largest widths I had
was 24-26 inches. On average I had 12" -14" wide boards. Now I am making
arrangement to get some oak, ash, yellow birch and cherry logs. Maybe not
all at once. Then when I am ready I'll call the portable mill contractor
and hire him to cut the proper bowl blanks sizes from 8 feet long logs.
What will be left for me to do is to cross cut the blanks as per the correct
lengths.
If this goes well I'll have decide if I need an 18" bandsaw. Once the rough
bland have a flat surface that could rest of the cast iron table of the
bandsaw I may only need a 16 inches to cut them in circle.?
"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks Larry, I had already read that one (and the Laguna forum had a
> stinging counterpoint reply to the article). That and other posts there
had
> convinced me they were not the kind of people I like to associate with.
> Tom
>
> <snip>> Interesting article for ya:
> >
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=reviews&file=articles_206.shtml
> >
> >
> <snip>
>
>
>
> I also found the MM sales people to be far more helpful. Many of the
> folks at Laguna that I talked to were outright arogant.
When I was shopping last year, that was exactly my impression. Not that
pre-sales support is necessarily an indication of anything other than just
that. But it is interesting to me that my observation was not unique.
-Steve
"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
>same as written below, and await his thoughts.
> In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
> is that input I ask once more.
>
> I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
> find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24"
> doesn't offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos
> 20"'ers. (But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
>
> I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
(snip of excellent hammer salesman example)
> The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has more weight
> but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needing 20"
> resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
>
> The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
> greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
> better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
> while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
>
> Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
> blade at cost ($100).
(snip of good stuff)
> What to do, what to do...
Tom:
Bandsaw guru Mark Duginske told me face-to-face that my Italian-made Laguna
16LT was a very good saw but that their larger saws are now made in
Bulgaria, leading him to question the level of their goodness.He has been
quoted in Agazzani's ads, and after meeting him I doubt that he did it just
for the money. OTOH, he has a Minimax in his shop (20'?); I know because he
demo'ed it for us guys in the class. He also appeared at the last Milwaukee
wood show handling the Minimax display.
Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either of the last two
saws mentioned, but Minimax would probably have better availability than
Agazzani. This is a bit speculative, of course.
Bob
>
>
On 26 Jan 2005 13:39:45 -0800, "Big Rob" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I bought a MM16 about three months ago and love it. I also looked at
>Grizzly and Laguna (I even visited the Laguna headquarters on a trip to
>LA).
>
>If you look at the saws in person you will quickly see that the Laguna
>and Minimax are in a different class than the Grizzly. Much sturdier
>and seemingly better construction (and even a few labels in Italian).
>So, I quickly ruled out the Grizzly. My motto is "buy once, cry once"
>-- as in crying over the price. I wanted a saw that I would be happy
>with for 20 years and I have no doubts that the MM will do that. I
>have nothing against Grizzly. I have a Grizzly tablesaw and it is
>fantastic -- I would buy it again over a Unisaw any day.
>
>So, that brings it down to Laguna and MM.
don't overlook bridgewood. their larger bandsaws are italian made and
in the same class as the MM and laguna.
<http://www.wilkemachinery.com/OnlineCatalogDetailResults.tpl?SearchDetail=3039417982169&PreviousCategory=Bandsaws>
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:32:28 -0500, "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you want pine or oak, yes. I have gotten some lace wood (silk oak) as
>well. I have never seen cherry or more than a few maple trees though.
>Tom
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
><snip>> I'd think there'd be a lot of opportunity for log hunting -- A
>> combination of residential/urban areas and big winds.
>>
>> That's the way it works around here, anyway.
>>
>> --RC
>> "Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
>> 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
>> fly with a club.
>> -- John W. Cambell Jr.
>
Down here the prizes are mesquite, ironwood, chinaberry, silk oak and
such. Mesquite is particularly common since people plant them in beds
and such. They don't realize that unlike trees from civilized parts
the native trees around here have root systems that extend out to two
or three times the diameter of their drip lines. The mesquite is
constricted by the concrete and that leave it with a root system that
can't hold it again high wind.
Of course resawing ironwood is a pain (!) but the stuff is beautiful.
--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.
Also heard that David Marks has ordered (if not already recieved) a
MiniMax 36 for HIS shop
I spoke to Duginske at a woodworking show before I bought my MM24, and
I asked him point blank, if HE were buying a 24in saw, what would be
buy, and he said that of the current offerings he would go with the
MiniMax or the Agazzani comparable model
John
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:57:29 GMT, "Bob Schmall" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
>>same as written below, and await his thoughts.
>> In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
>> is that input I ask once more.
>>
>> I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
>> find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24"
>> doesn't offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos
>> 20"'ers. (But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
>>
>> I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
>
>(snip of excellent hammer salesman example)
>
>> The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has more weight
>> but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needing 20"
>> resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
>>
>> The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
>> greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
>> better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
>> while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
>>
>> Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
>> blade at cost ($100).
>
>(snip of good stuff)
>
>> What to do, what to do...
>
>Tom:
>Bandsaw guru Mark Duginske told me face-to-face that my Italian-made Laguna
>16LT was a very good saw but that their larger saws are now made in
>Bulgaria, leading him to question the level of their goodness.He has been
>quoted in Agazzani's ads, and after meeting him I doubt that he did it just
>for the money. OTOH, he has a Minimax in his shop (20'?); I know because he
>demo'ed it for us guys in the class. He also appeared at the last Milwaukee
>wood show handling the Minimax display.
>Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either of the last two
>saws mentioned, but Minimax would probably have better availability than
>Agazzani. This is a bit speculative, of course.
>
>Bob
>
>>
>>
>
Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:30:49 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
>> <[email protected]> spake:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> How much of this are you planning on doing? Enough to justify the
>>>> nearly $4k that Minimax wants for the 24", or about $2.5k for the
>>>> little M16? (I had trouble wrestling a pair of crowbars to get
>>>> $695 out of my wallet for the G1012. ;)
>>>>
>>> If you/re asking am I going into production... no, not yet ;<) but
>>> I do believe in the "buy once, cry once" line of thinking.
>>
>> People used to buy entire homes for the price of a Minimax nowadays.
>> Maybe I'm just too frugal. I still have a whole lot of trouble with
>> those pesky commas in prices. =:-0
>>
>>
You know, that is also true of cars and trucks but a Minimax will out last
and out perform any car or any truck, especially if you don't take it out
on the road a lot. ;)
Josie
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:03:50 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> spake:
><snip>
>>
>> Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
>> you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
>> Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
>
>Mea Culpa... my spiel chucker didn't like "grizzly" <G>
So dump LookOUT Express, eh? ;)
Interesting article for ya:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=reviews&file=articles_206.shtml
>> What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
>> saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
>> huh?)
>
>Logs are one thing, but veneers and panels are the primary resaw use.
Right, but what shape is the wood from which you're shaving veneer?
><snip>>
>> Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
>> At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
>
>It does, or stellite... I don't remember which at the moment.
><snip>
>> See? No "e".
>
>OK, OK I get it <grin>.
Just wanted to make sure. <titter>
>Both Laguna and Minimax tell me they will "put it on the floor, Griz simply
>states it's my responsibility to get it off the truck, and suggests a
>forklift.
My 18-incher came in a 200 lb crate could have been easily offloaded
had the need arisen. Big Arn like the 20 and 24" monsters could use
a forklift or auto wrecker boom. You could, however, find out who
they'd use to ship it to you and make the necessary arrangements.
It's usually only a $50 addition.
>> You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
>> http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
>> "Muncy", either.) <bseg>
>
>Ha! I seldom get out of Englewood!
Hey, stop closing down Spanky's Lounge and Tulie's and get to work.
>Thanks for your input (and the chiding ;>).
Jewelcome. Now go buy that Minimax if you're too much of a wuss to buy
the Griz. Crikey, I just looked at their prices. <thud>
========================================================
Was that an African + http://www.diversify.com
or European Swallow? + Gourmet Web Applications
========================================================
Thomas Bunetta Wrote:
> I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basicall
> the
> same as written below, and await his thoughts.
> In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions an
> it
> is that input I ask once more.
>
> I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minima
> (couldn't
> find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24
> doesn't
> offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other two
> 20"'ers.
> (But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
>
> I have looked at the video offerings from both Laguna and Minimax.
>
> Have you noticed that if you ask a hammer saleman what you need, th
> answer
> is always a hammer?
> The salespeople at all but Grizzley (haven't called them, yet) seem as
> interested in bashing the competition as selling a product! :(
>
> The Minimax (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm20.html has mor
> weight
> but Euro guides and less re-saw capacity (I can't forsee me needin
> 20"
> resaw) and a slightly bigger table.
>
> The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietar
> guides,
> greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fenc
> is
> better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like
> Unifence
> while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relativel
> tall).
>
> Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers th
> resaw
> blade at cost ($100).
>
> Finally Grizzley again: specs at
> http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/G3619_ds.pdf?
> The web site for description and cost:
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G3619
> Note that this size is what it would take to approximate the resa
> capacity
> of the others. And the others offer on the floor delivery, bu
> Grizzley
> suggests a freight depot (I have a lift-gate on my pickup, however).
>
> The next wood show in Florida is a while away and much farther fro
> home
> this time... and Grizz hasn't come to our show before so a "hands on
> for
> their product may be impossible.
>
> What to do, what to do...
If size matters, that Grizzly is HUGE. after physically looking ove
the grizzly 18" G0506 and the 21" for months, I ended up getting th
MM16. The quality if the MM is just head and shoulders above th
Grizzly
--
stifler
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:19:31 -0500, "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This is about the best "drive by" I've seen in a while.
>In SW Florida there isn't as much availability for log hunting... but every
>now and then I get a few smaller interesting pieces.
>For now I will see the greatest use in slicing panels, rather than planing
>it away.
>Tom
>"Denis Marier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I am shopping for an 18" bandsaw.
>> In the meantime I am using the service of a portable bandsaw mill
>contractor
>> His hourly fee is $45.00 CAD.
><suckage snipped!;>)
>
I'd think there'd be a lot of opportunity for log hunting -- A
combination of residential/urban areas and big winds.
That's the way it works around here, anyway.
--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.
Where I live its could costs less money to buy fire wood in 8 feet lengths
and have it delivered to your backyard. By doing that you cannot be picky
and choosy. You can get everything from yellow birch, maple, ash, oak,
cherry, walnut and others. Last year I got some cherry and walnut. This
year I only have maple and yellow birch. Before christmas I have sent for a
Laguna catalogue and I am still waiting for it. Although my mentors tell me
to go for the 24" bandsaw or stay with what I now have, the BusyBee 16"
Bandsaw looks attractive to me. As for the slicing panels I am doing fine
with the portable saw mill contractor. What I have learned is that air
drying keeps the board pretty flat and I can get away with a thickness of
7/8 instead of 1". This way have less surface planing to do.
"Thomas Bunetta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is about the best "drive by" I've seen in a while.
> In SW Florida there isn't as much availability for log hunting... but
every
> now and then I get a few smaller interesting pieces.
> For now I will see the greatest use in slicing panels, rather than planing
> it away.
> Tom
> "Denis Marier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am shopping for an 18" bandsaw.
> > In the meantime I am using the service of a portable bandsaw mill
> contractor
> > His hourly fee is $45.00 CAD.
> <suckage snipped!;>)
>
>
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:01:19 -0500, the inscrutable "Thomas Bunetta"
<[email protected]> spake:
>I asked privately what one of our more esteemed "Wreckers" basically the
>same as written below, and await his thoughts.
>In this forum I have always gotten a good cross-section of opinions and it
>is that input I ask once more.
>
>I looked at (as previously stated) Grizzley Laguna and Minimax (couldn't
>find a distributor for Agazzani). I'm dubious about Grizz, their 24" doesn't
>offer as much table, resaw capacity, or weight as the other twos 20"'ers.
>(But about 1700 less dollars inch for inch on their 24").
Since you can't even spell "Grizzly" or its abbreviated form "Griz",
you don't deserve one, Tom. Go ahead, spend twice the price for a
Laguna or Minmax. See if we care. ;)
What are you trying to resaw, Tom? I get 10" capability with my 18"
saw. (I really should grab a log some time and use that capability,
huh?)
>The Laguna http://www.lagunatools.com/lt20.htm has the proprietary guides,
>greater resaw capacity and a Baldor motor. It is claimed that the fence is
>better since it can be rotated from low to high profile like a Unifence
>while the cast iron fence of the Minimax cannot (but is relatively tall).
>
>Both include shipping, blades and mobility kits, Minimax offers the resaw
>blade at cost ($100).
Ouch! My Suffolk Timberwolf resaw blade was $18 + s/h.
At your price, I hope it's a bimetal with carbide tips.
>Finally Grizzley again: specs at
>http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/G3619_ds.pdf?
See? No "e".
>The web site for description and cost:
>http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G3619
>Note that this size is what it would take to approximate the resaw capacity
>of the others. And the others offer on the floor delivery, but Grizzley
>suggests a freight depot (I have a lift-gate on my pickup, however).
I didn't order floor delivery but my G1012 came on a liftgate and the
guy wheeled it to my specified drop point with no problem. It all
depends on who your freight company is and the attitude of the driver.
That probably goes for all the mfgrs, not just Griz.
>The next wood show in Florida is a while away and much farther from home
>this time... and Grizz hasn't come to our show before so a "hands on" for
>their product may be impossible.
You could always visit their east coast showroom in Muncy, PA.
http://www.grizzly.com/showroom_pa.cfm? (BTW, there's no "e" in
"Muncy", either.) <bseg>
---
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