just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
photographed prior to purchase....
the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
boards..is this feasible??
or have I been sold substandard product??
am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
see pics here:
obviously i am showing the worst board
http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
zz
zz,
Straight, flat figured wood is hard to come by. When you cut from a
larger dimension, it's pretty common to get some cupping. Shipping also
is hard on things, going from climate to climate. I bought a piece of
Koa in Hawaii once and by the time I had it shipped home, it looked
pretty bad. I did get it to straighten quite a bit.
If you don't want to use them right away, you can sometimes get a
little of the cupping out by dampening and clamping them between a
couple of solid straight timbers. I haven't done it for a while, but if
I recall, you dampen the cupped side...should be info available online.
Warren
Yeah Maple can be that way. I wouldn't say you got ripped off unless I
knew what you paid and could see the grade of the figure. If you paid
a real premium price then you should expect some better milling of what
you bought. Regardless, it is totally usable. Heck it used to have bark
on it and was captuerd inside a big round log. It's a lot closer to
being a guiter now then it was before and you just get to do the rest.
P.S. I met a really nice guy at the AWFS show from Northwest Timber
http://www.nwtimber.com/ they have some really nice stock.You surely
pay for what you get with these guys but they only carry figured wood
and thay had some mind blowing stuff at the show.
I don't know where you bought the wood, or where you had it shipped to,
but it is possible for wood to suck up moisture during a long trip,
especially if the end grain has not been properly sealed.
Maple, especially the figured stuff can be unpredictable at the best of
times. It will tend to cup or twist under a wide variety of circumstances.
If your pieces have just been sawn to length and not end-sealed, before you
do any machining seal up that end grain with parafin wax or even old paint.
Paraffin wax must be melted in a double boiler, never NEVER melted directly
in a pan over a stove so it doesn't reach it's flashpoint. The idea is to
stop the rapid loss or gain of moisture through the end grain and make the
boards relinquish the excess water over the entire surface rather than just
from the ends. If you don't do that with any decent wood blanks or billets
you are asking for end-checking which will spoil your day. The idea is to
ensure that any moisture loss/gain takes place evenly over all surfaces
rather than taking the easy way out.
One the end grain is sealed ( and that should have been done immediately the
blanks were sawn to length) you need to 'sticker' the individual slices.
Usually with acoustic tops or backs we do it in pairs as the slices are so
thin, but with thicker material I'd sticker each piece. The 'stickers' are
usually bits of scrap 1/4" ply or hardboard roughly the same length as the
boards are wide and ripped approx. 1/4" to 3/8" wide. Place 3 stickers on
your storage self or bench with one about 1" in from the location of each
end of a maple slice and one in the approx. middle. Put a slice on top then
repeat the sticker pattern on top of that slice. Add another maple slice.
Continue 'til you have the material stacked. Now the air in your shop,
hopefully conditioned to somewhere around 38% relative humidity, can
circulate around all 4 surfaces of every slice. If the maple slices are
badly cupped or warped you may want to place a flat piece of plywood etc. on
top of the last layer of stickers, and weight the whole lot down with
fairly substantial weights on top of the ply.
If you intend to do much woodwork you should invest in a small moisture
meter so you don't have to guess at the moisture content of your materials.
At one time these were well beyond the reach of most hobby builders, but
these days you can buy a number of varieties of small pin-type meters for
$100 Cdn. or so. That's not much money when you consider how much you can
lose if you blow up a couple of high-grade tops through neglect of moisture
content. I build with materials air dried down to 8% equilibrium moisture
content. Some luthiers specify 6%, but that is virtually impossible to
achieve by air drying, at least in our eastern Canadian environment. I'd
much rather have 8% air dried stuff I can count on than wood which has been
improperly kiln dried to 6.
A few weeks in a decent environment, stickered as above, should stabilize
thin slices for you to the point where it will be safe to start the
machining. Be very careful about feeding figured maple ( or any figured
wood) through most commercial planers, and even over jointers. The knives
must be very sharp and cuts must be very light or you'll get tearout. Most
figure, especially 'curl' or fiddleback, is merely the end grain coming to
the surface of the board where you wouldn't normally expect it. That means
that if your planer knives are less than razor sharp or if your feed is at
all heavy you'll tend to bugger the work as the knives grab hold of the end
grain and tear out ruddy great chunks. I've seen $100 per board foot curly
koa come out of a planer in matchstick form.
Thickness sanders are a better bet once you have one flat surface.
People buy hardwood which is advertised as being 'kiln dried' and assume it
will be stable as a result. The trouble is kiln drying is a very complex
process and very few kiln operators treat quality hardwoods in the tedious
manner they require for best results. Most large commercial kilns are used
basically to bully the max. amount of moisture out in the shortest possible
time in order to reduce the shipping cost of huge shipments. Sad but true.
Reduce the shipping weight of an 80,000 lb. order by 15% and you have saved
a load of cash. In order to dry quality hardwoods properly the process
needs to be much slower ( which means expensive) and after it has reached
the pre-determined moisture level it needs to be stress relieved. That is a
bit of an involved process and few kiln operators these days either know how
to do it, understand the process, or are willing to take the time to do
it.
You can tell in short order if a stick has been properly stress relieved
after kilning by means of a simple test. Take a scrap of the wood about 3"
long and maybe an inch wide and with the bandsaw make several straight cuts
into the end grain, but not all the way through the full length of the
piece. You are making what appears to be the tines of a fork, in effect.
If the wood has been properly stress relieved the 'tines' will remain
straight. If it hasn't then the outer tines will tend to warp in onto the
others and close up the gaps between them. It happens almost instantly. If
that is the case, on long boards which are perfectly dressed and straight,
when you rip the board the two pieces may splay out from each other as they
come off the saw or may bind together, trapping the back of the blade and
causing kickbacks.
The difficulty in finding kiln operators who understand the process and who
are willing to do it is the main reason many luthiers much prefer to air-dry
their own timber.
Once you have the wood stabilized and whupped into shape as a guitar, you
need to enhance the figure as much as you can. Remember the figure is
usually just end grain coming to the surface on the flat, so you can use
that to your advantage. End grain sucks up stain faster than the rest of
the board, so before you actually start your proper staining and finishing
give the maple a coat of some fairly dark spirit stain, let it dry then
sand it off. The majority of the surface will come white again fairly
swiftly, but the curl will retain enough of the colour to accentuate only
the figured portions. Now when you apply what ever colour and finish to the
overall piece the figure will stand out with much greater prominence.
Practice on scraps beforehand, obviously, so you get the lick down before
committing yourself to the finished piece.
Good luck.
K.Hall,
Timberline Guitars,
Canada
zz <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:43016ffb.2538490@news-server...
> i'll follow on and top post:
> that sounds like a good suggestion below....
> my workshop has a nice dry warm area ......
> i am not in a hurry and havent even cut the templates for the bodies
> yet so i have some time before i need to glue tops on.....
> i have lightly cramped them cup down with a flat board and will rotate
> them every couple of days.....i feel as though i can't tighten the
> clamp too much today.....i am paranoid the top board will crack....
> i dont think these boards were 10% mc as they were advertised..
> they had a kind of sour smell when i opened the package...the smell is
> disapating now after 24 hours in a dry warm workshop
>
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:13:27 -0500, "babygrand"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
> >alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down,
and
> >then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat for
> >the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the top
of
> >the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't
push
> >them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content in
> >your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.
> >
> >If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
> >jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist can
be
> >shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get one
> >side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer
with
> >the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.
> >
> >babygrand
> >-
> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
> >> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be
a
> >poor
> >> >choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
> >> >guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't
> >work,
> >> >it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other
high
> >> >quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
> >vibration
> >> >(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much
less
> >> >"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
> >> >excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
> >fiddleback
> >> >maple.
> >> >
> >> >babygrand
> >> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
> >> >> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was
dissapointed
> >> >> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
> >> >> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
> >> >> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
> >> >> photographed prior to purchase....
> >> >>
> >> >> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> >> >> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the
board
> >> >> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more
from
> >> >> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
> >> >>
> >> >> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> >> >> boards..is this feasible??
> >> >> or have I been sold substandard product??
> >> >> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
> >> >>
> >> >> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
> >> >> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
> >> >> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of
timber
> >> >> see pics here:
> >> >> obviously i am showing the worst board
> >> >> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
> >> >> zz
> >> >
> >> its for chamberd body electric guitar
> >> one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
> >> machine [thcknesser]??
> >> thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
> >> zz
>
>
> zz
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:51:07 GMT, [email protected] (zz) wrote:
>just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
>as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>photographed prior to purchase....
>
>the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
>it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
>end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>
>i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>boards..is this feasible??
> or have I been sold substandard product??
>am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>
>i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
>see pics here:
>obviously i am showing the worst board
>http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>zz
by the way these boards are 22 1/2" x 7 3/4" x 3/8"
finshed size would be 16" x 7" x1/4"
thanks for any posts on the subject
zz
i'll follow on and top post:
that sounds like a good suggestion below....
my workshop has a nice dry warm area ......
i am not in a hurry and havent even cut the templates for the bodies
yet so i have some time before i need to glue tops on.....
i have lightly cramped them cup down with a flat board and will rotate
them every couple of days.....i feel as though i can't tighten the
clamp too much today.....i am paranoid the top board will crack....
i dont think these boards were 10% mc as they were advertised..
they had a kind of sour smell when i opened the package...the smell is
disapating now after 24 hours in a dry warm workshop
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:13:27 -0500, "babygrand"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
>alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down, and
>then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat for
>the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the top of
>the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't push
>them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content in
>your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.
>
>If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
>jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist can be
>shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get one
>side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer with
>the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.
>
>babygrand
>-
>"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be a
>poor
>> >choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
>> >guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't
>work,
>> >it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other high
>> >quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
>vibration
>> >(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much less
>> >"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
>> >excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
>fiddleback
>> >maple.
>> >
>> >babygrand
>> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
>> >> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
>> >> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>> >> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>> >> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>> >> photographed prior to purchase....
>> >>
>> >> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>> >> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
>> >> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
>> >> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>> >>
>> >> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>> >> boards..is this feasible??
>> >> or have I been sold substandard product??
>> >> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>> >>
>> >> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>> >> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>> >> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
>> >> see pics here:
>> >> obviously i am showing the worst board
>> >> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>> >> zz
>> >
>> its for chamberd body electric guitar
>> one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
>> machine [thcknesser]??
>> thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
>> zz
zz
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be a poor
>choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
>guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't work,
>it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other high
>quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural vibration
>(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much less
>"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
>excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or fiddleback
>maple.
>
>babygrand
>"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
>> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
>> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>> photographed prior to purchase....
>>
>> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
>> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
>> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>>
>> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>> boards..is this feasible??
>> or have I been sold substandard product??
>> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>>
>> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
>> see pics here:
>> obviously i am showing the worst board
>> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>> zz
>
its for chamberd body electric guitar
one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
machine [thcknesser]??
thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
zz
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:52:19 +1000, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:23:19 GMT, [email protected] (zz) wrote:
>>its for chamberd body electric guitar
>
>That's something I've often contemplated doing. Do you have any
>thoughts or plans on the chambering that you are able to share?
>
>Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
I guess it makes a solid guitar a bit more lively on stage....
something that is hard to quantify....with less wood and that volume
of air moving inside i reckon helps with tone and responsiveness....
the chambering is pretty simple and you can see eg of one that was
done here a few moths ago
http://www.aargent.com.au/music/sunburst_tele/
its based on the way they do it at warmoth / fender / etc etc....its a
pretty common way of doing it......gibson 335 was a similar design
inside...fender developed the tele thinline in the early 70.'s to try
and cash in on the hollowbody market.....the tele shown above has
really come alive since it was "thinlinised" its currently my main
guitar with a hot woody, biting tone that really cuts through the
mix...it ws nice before the mod but a very icey kind of sound
zz
thanks kevin...its been a few weeks since the tops arrived [canadian]
and since then i have had them clamped down pretty tight in a warm dry
area....i guess its time to take another look at them and will unclamp
sticker them as per below after i seal the ends....
i have read many discussins since i bought these regarding figured
maples notorious reputation for instability.....
thanks again
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:35:19 -0400, "Kevin Hall"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I don't know where you bought the wood, or where you had it shipped to,
>but it is possible for wood to suck up moisture during a long trip,
>especially if the end grain has not been properly sealed.
>
>Maple, especially the figured stuff can be unpredictable at the best of
>times. It will tend to cup or twist under a wide variety of circumstances.
>If your pieces have just been sawn to length and not end-sealed, before you
>do any machining seal up that end grain with parafin wax or even old paint.
>Paraffin wax must be melted in a double boiler, never NEVER melted directly
>in a pan over a stove so it doesn't reach it's flashpoint. The idea is to
>stop the rapid loss or gain of moisture through the end grain and make the
>boards relinquish the excess water over the entire surface rather than just
>from the ends. If you don't do that with any decent wood blanks or billets
>you are asking for end-checking which will spoil your day. The idea is to
>ensure that any moisture loss/gain takes place evenly over all surfaces
>rather than taking the easy way out.
>
>One the end grain is sealed ( and that should have been done immediately the
>blanks were sawn to length) you need to 'sticker' the individual slices.
>Usually with acoustic tops or backs we do it in pairs as the slices are so
>thin, but with thicker material I'd sticker each piece. The 'stickers' are
>usually bits of scrap 1/4" ply or hardboard roughly the same length as the
>boards are wide and ripped approx. 1/4" to 3/8" wide. Place 3 stickers on
>your storage self or bench with one about 1" in from the location of each
>end of a maple slice and one in the approx. middle. Put a slice on top then
>repeat the sticker pattern on top of that slice. Add another maple slice.
>Continue 'til you have the material stacked. Now the air in your shop,
>hopefully conditioned to somewhere around 38% relative humidity, can
>circulate around all 4 surfaces of every slice. If the maple slices are
>badly cupped or warped you may want to place a flat piece of plywood etc. on
>top of the last layer of stickers, and weight the whole lot down with
>fairly substantial weights on top of the ply.
>
>If you intend to do much woodwork you should invest in a small moisture
>meter so you don't have to guess at the moisture content of your materials.
>At one time these were well beyond the reach of most hobby builders, but
>these days you can buy a number of varieties of small pin-type meters for
>$100 Cdn. or so. That's not much money when you consider how much you can
>lose if you blow up a couple of high-grade tops through neglect of moisture
>content. I build with materials air dried down to 8% equilibrium moisture
>content. Some luthiers specify 6%, but that is virtually impossible to
>achieve by air drying, at least in our eastern Canadian environment. I'd
>much rather have 8% air dried stuff I can count on than wood which has been
>improperly kiln dried to 6.
>
>A few weeks in a decent environment, stickered as above, should stabilize
>thin slices for you to the point where it will be safe to start the
>machining. Be very careful about feeding figured maple ( or any figured
>wood) through most commercial planers, and even over jointers. The knives
>must be very sharp and cuts must be very light or you'll get tearout. Most
>figure, especially 'curl' or fiddleback, is merely the end grain coming to
>the surface of the board where you wouldn't normally expect it. That means
>that if your planer knives are less than razor sharp or if your feed is at
>all heavy you'll tend to bugger the work as the knives grab hold of the end
>grain and tear out ruddy great chunks. I've seen $100 per board foot curly
>koa come out of a planer in matchstick form.
>
>Thickness sanders are a better bet once you have one flat surface.
>
>People buy hardwood which is advertised as being 'kiln dried' and assume it
>will be stable as a result. The trouble is kiln drying is a very complex
>process and very few kiln operators treat quality hardwoods in the tedious
>manner they require for best results. Most large commercial kilns are used
>basically to bully the max. amount of moisture out in the shortest possible
>time in order to reduce the shipping cost of huge shipments. Sad but true.
>Reduce the shipping weight of an 80,000 lb. order by 15% and you have saved
>a load of cash. In order to dry quality hardwoods properly the process
>needs to be much slower ( which means expensive) and after it has reached
>the pre-determined moisture level it needs to be stress relieved. That is a
>bit of an involved process and few kiln operators these days either know how
>to do it, understand the process, or are willing to take the time to do
>it.
>
>You can tell in short order if a stick has been properly stress relieved
>after kilning by means of a simple test. Take a scrap of the wood about 3"
>long and maybe an inch wide and with the bandsaw make several straight cuts
>into the end grain, but not all the way through the full length of the
>piece. You are making what appears to be the tines of a fork, in effect.
>If the wood has been properly stress relieved the 'tines' will remain
>straight. If it hasn't then the outer tines will tend to warp in onto the
>others and close up the gaps between them. It happens almost instantly. If
>that is the case, on long boards which are perfectly dressed and straight,
>when you rip the board the two pieces may splay out from each other as they
>come off the saw or may bind together, trapping the back of the blade and
>causing kickbacks.
>
>The difficulty in finding kiln operators who understand the process and who
>are willing to do it is the main reason many luthiers much prefer to air-dry
>their own timber.
>
>Once you have the wood stabilized and whupped into shape as a guitar, you
>need to enhance the figure as much as you can. Remember the figure is
>usually just end grain coming to the surface on the flat, so you can use
>that to your advantage. End grain sucks up stain faster than the rest of
>the board, so before you actually start your proper staining and finishing
>give the maple a coat of some fairly dark spirit stain, let it dry then
>sand it off. The majority of the surface will come white again fairly
>swiftly, but the curl will retain enough of the colour to accentuate only
>the figured portions. Now when you apply what ever colour and finish to the
>overall piece the figure will stand out with much greater prominence.
>Practice on scraps beforehand, obviously, so you get the lick down before
>committing yourself to the finished piece.
>
>Good luck.
>K.Hall,
>Timberline Guitars,
>Canada
>zz <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:43016ffb.2538490@news-server...
>> i'll follow on and top post:
>> that sounds like a good suggestion below....
>> my workshop has a nice dry warm area ......
>> i am not in a hurry and havent even cut the templates for the bodies
>> yet so i have some time before i need to glue tops on.....
>> i have lightly cramped them cup down with a flat board and will rotate
>> them every couple of days.....i feel as though i can't tighten the
>> clamp too much today.....i am paranoid the top board will crack....
>> i dont think these boards were 10% mc as they were advertised..
>> they had a kind of sour smell when i opened the package...the smell is
>> disapating now after 24 hours in a dry warm workshop
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:13:27 -0500, "babygrand"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
>> >alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down,
>and
>> >then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat for
>> >the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the top
>of
>> >the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't
>push
>> >them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content in
>> >your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.
>> >
>> >If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
>> >jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist can
>be
>> >shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get one
>> >side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer
>with
>> >the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.
>> >
>> >babygrand
>> >-
>> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
>> >> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be
>a
>> >poor
>> >> >choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
>> >> >guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't
>> >work,
>> >> >it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other
>high
>> >> >quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
>> >vibration
>> >> >(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much
>less
>> >> >"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
>> >> >excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
>> >fiddleback
>> >> >maple.
>> >> >
>> >> >babygrand
>> >> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
>> >> >> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was
>dissapointed
>> >> >> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>> >> >> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>> >> >> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>> >> >> photographed prior to purchase....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>> >> >> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the
>board
>> >> >> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more
>from
>> >> >> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>> >> >> boards..is this feasible??
>> >> >> or have I been sold substandard product??
>> >> >> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>> >> >>
>> >> >> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>> >> >> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>> >> >> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of
>timber
>> >> >> see pics here:
>> >> >> obviously i am showing the worst board
>> >> >> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>> >> >> zz
>> >> >
>> >> its for chamberd body electric guitar
>> >> one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
>> >> machine [thcknesser]??
>> >> thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
>> >> zz
>>
>>
>> zz
>
zz
zz wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be a=
poor
>>choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
>>guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't =
work,
>>it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other hig=
h
>>quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural vibra=
tion
>>(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much less=
>>"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
>>excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or fiddle=
back
>>maple.
>>
>>babygrand
>>"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
>>
>>>just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed=
>>>as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>>>purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>>>high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>>>photographed prior to purchase....
>>>
>>>the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>>>side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board=
>>>it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from=
>>>end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>>>
>>>i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>>>boards..is this feasible??
>>> or have I been sold substandard product??
>>>am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>>>
>>>i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>>>been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>>>i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber=
>>>see pics here:
>>>obviously i am showing the worst board
>>>http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>>>zz
>>
> its for chamberd body electric guitar
> one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
> machine [thcknesser]??
> thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
> zz
Most Planers (Thicknessers) will not handle it except on a sled -- too=20
thin -- usually a 3/8 minimum. I have run my King down to 5/16 -- but... =
That's the "idiot's" safety margin.
Myself I would prefer a big belt or drum sander and a very gentle touch=20
-- or very light hand planing and finishing sander (palm style) -- but=20
to each his own.
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
Here's my $0.02 CAD...
The likelyhood of any board you buy being straight and true is pretty slim,
even if you pay for S4S (surfaced 4 sides). I don't know what you mean by
"fine sawn, not dressed". If that means rough cut (fresh from the saw
mill), I'd say those boards are pretty damn straight. You should plan on
jointing and planing the boards before you use them, especially for
something like making a guitar, where I'm assuming tolerances are pretty
tight.
You'll also want to monitor moisture levels (again, for something like
guitar making). If the boards haven't reached an equilibrium level yet,
they'll continue to move, which is probably not something you want to deal
with after you've cut or glued them up. Keep in mind I'm talking about fine
wood-working; for most of the stuff I do, I'd probably cut them to length,
swipe a plane over them to take off the worst of the bumps and dips, and
glue 'em up. :)
Clint
"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
> photographed prior to purchase....
>
> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>
> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> boards..is this feasible??
> or have I been sold substandard product??
> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>
> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
> see pics here:
> obviously i am showing the worst board
> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
> zz
If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down, and
then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat for
the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the top of
the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't push
them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content in
your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.
If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist can be
shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get one
side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer with
the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.
babygrand
-
"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be a
poor
> >choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
> >guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't
work,
> >it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other high
> >quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
vibration
> >(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much less
> >"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
> >excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
fiddleback
> >maple.
> >
> >babygrand
> >"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
> >> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
> >> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
> >> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
> >> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
> >> photographed prior to purchase....
> >>
> >> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> >> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
> >> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
> >> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
> >>
> >> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> >> boards..is this feasible??
> >> or have I been sold substandard product??
> >> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
> >>
> >> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
> >> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
> >> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
> >> see pics here:
> >> obviously i am showing the worst board
> >> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
> >> zz
> >
> its for chamberd body electric guitar
> one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
> machine [thcknesser]??
> thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
> zz
Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be a poor
choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic
guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't work,
it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other high
quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural vibration
(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much less
"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or fiddleback
maple.
babygrand
"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
> photographed prior to purchase....
>
> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>
> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> boards..is this feasible??
> or have I been sold substandard product??
> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>
> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
> see pics here:
> obviously i am showing the worst board
> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
> zz
babygrand wrote:
> If you're not in a big hurry, you might try nesting the pieces in an
> alternating manner... in other words, place one board with the cup down=
, and
> then it's book matched mate on top of it with the cup up, then repeat f=
or
> the other two pairs. Apply a large, fFLAT board or metal plat to the to=
p of
> the stach and lots of weight (100-200 lbs.) on top of that. It won't p=
ush
> them flat right away, but as they come to equilibrium moisture content =
in
> your shop(say 3 to 4 weeks?), a lot of the warp or twist may come out.
>=20
I mentioned this before -- he may be in a hurry though -- I have been -- =
in the _past_.
Patience is the ingredient most often missing in any project. :-)
I just went through hell trying to get a cherry table to come together.=20
The wood twisted and bent every time I machined it. Finally I set the=20
table and pieces aside. I will start again now -- after 6 weeks (or is=20
it 8?). It was just too aggravating handling cherry that had not been=20
properly dried and was not acclimatized to my shop.
> If that doesn't do it, you migfht try to find someone with a very wide
> jointer, say a 12" wide blade. Frequently most of the warp and twist c=
an be
> shaved out with a properly set up jointer. Even if you can only get on=
e
> side good and flat, you can then run the pieces through a good planer w=
ith
> the flat side down, and level up the top surface. Good luck.
>=20
> babygrand
> -
> "zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:4302158f.2411828@news-server...
>=20
>>On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:11:30 -0500, "babygrand"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Even if the boards were absolutely flat, I would think maple would be =
a
>=20
> poor
>=20
>>>choice for a guitar soundboard (I am assuming you are talking acoustic=
>>>guitar, since you plan to plane them to 1/4") Not that maple wouldn't=
>=20
> work,
>=20
>>>it just won't produce the resonance of say a Sitka spruce, or other hi=
gh
>>>quality fir board. Maple is so dense and rigid that it's natural
>=20
> vibration
>=20
>>>(amplitude) would be far less than a lighter spruce, and have much les=
s
>>>"output" than a traditional soundboard. Maple would be, however, an
>>>excellent choice for an electric solid body, especially curly or
>=20
> fiddleback
>=20
>>>maple.
>>>
>>>babygrand
>>>"zz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:43008f26.72584@news-server...
>>>
>>>>just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointe=
d
>>>>as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
>>>>purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
>>>>high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
>>>>photographed prior to purchase....
>>>>
>>>>the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
>>>>side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the boar=
d
>>>>it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more fro=
m
>>>>end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
>>>>
>>>>i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
>>>>boards..is this feasible??
>>>> or have I been sold substandard product??
>>>>am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>>>>
>>>>i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
>>>>been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
>>>>i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timbe=
r
>>>>see pics here:
>>>>obviously i am showing the worst board
>>>>http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
>>>>zz
>>>
>>its for chamberd body electric guitar
>>one more question should i hand plane it or put it through a milling
>>machine [thcknesser]??
>>thanks by the way for your encouraging comments
>>zz
>=20
>=20
>=20
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:52:19 +1000, Tony <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:23:19 GMT, [email protected] (zz) wrote:
>>its for chamberd body electric guitar
>
>That's something I've often contemplated doing. Do you have any
>thoughts or plans on the chambering that you are able to share?
I did a chambered Les Paul style, mahogany body with mahogany top.
Three of the instruments I'm designing right now are chambered :
poplar bodies which'll get spalted maple tops. I'm planning on them
being more 'stage acoustics' than anything else : 1 guitar, two basses
(one fretted, the other fretless).
jtougas
listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go
e.e. cummings
> >
> >the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> >side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
> >it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
> >end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
> >
> >i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> >boards..is this feasible??
Absolutely.
> > or have I been sold substandard product??
Sure it could be better, but what you have been sold is essentially a
rough-sawn board. If they are really flat that is a bonus. Some unflatness
to be milled away is to be expected.
> >am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
I think it could be better, but these are quite usable.
* rough cut to length/width first, this will minimize the losses due to
jointing
* figure out what is the front and what is the back. The back does not need
to be perfect so only mill off just as much as you need to there.
* It appears to me that even if you use a jointer to remove all of the warp
there will still be enough material to yeild 1/4". But it will be close. I
think you can make the board not completely flat, but smooth if you have to.
I would immagine that 1/4" cap on an ash ~1-1/8" body for a guitar body is
not going to exert a meaningful amount of stress if you just pull it flat
during glue-up.
-Steve
Thanks to all for the tips. I really thought that chambering was a lot
more complex. But I think I could do that. Anyway, I'm going to try.
Tony
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:12:23 GMT, "Keith Adams"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>All of the guitars I make are chambered black walnut. I chamber out
>everything I can and still retain their structural integrety. I leave
>about 3/8" of wood around the edges for a good area to glue to. I
>leave a strip down the middle the width of the bridge. I remove the
>wood after the bridge because no force is exerted after that point.
>Besides cutting down on alot of weight it adds sustain and the tone is
>nice. No F holes. With a good string through or tuneomatic bridge and
>a nut made from something besides plastic(bones good) they really sing.
>I've made a couple of 3 pickup guitars that weighed just a bit over 4
>1/2 pounds.
>IMO its the only way to build one. If you do something similar I think
>you'll be well pleased with the results
>Good luck.
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
Pretty hard to see anything. The area is so cluttered It is difficult to =
tell where the board is.
Try again with a "clean" and neutral background and pay attention to the =
following details as well.
The focus is pretty fuzzy. You were too close. Back up and try again at=20
your highest resolution and an f-stop of 8 or greater -- then the focal=20
range might be sufficient that one can actually see the board.
You can use an f-stop of 5.6 or less if you are showing a "flat-on" view.=
Thin boards will warp a lot in high humidity. 3/8" is fairly thin... so..=
=2E
You may have to put them between heavy objects and flatten them for a whi=
le.
zz wrote:
> just imported 3 pairs of bookmatched maple tops and i was dissapointed
> as to the quality of the boards....as this is the first time i have
> purchased this type of product perhaps my expectations were a lttle
> high....the figuring seems to be nice and look pretty much as
> photographed prior to purchase....
>=20
> the boards however are warped from end to end and from side to
> side....the warp is an even curl in both directions...across the board
> it would be about 1/16 - 3/32 and about the same or a little more from
> end to end....also the boards are fine sawn not dressed....
I presume that you would sand the boards, and would use a sled to hold=20
them flat.
> i want to machine these to 1/4" and make guitar tops from these
> boards..is this feasible??
> or have I been sold substandard product??
> am i expecting more than is normal for maple boards??
>=20
From next post...
"by the way these boards are 22 1/2" x 7 3/4" x 3/8"
finshed size would be 16" x 7" x1/4"
thanks for any posts on the subject
zz "
Pretty thin. This warping is likely typical of a humid climate and a=20
thin board.
> i have not published the name of the supplier and i guess if i have
> been ripped off i would make sure that others are forewarned...
> i would not know as i have no experience in buying this type of timber
> see pics here:
> obviously i am showing the worst board
> http://www.aargent.com.au/music/maple.htm
> zz
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:23:19 GMT, [email protected] (zz) wrote:
>its for chamberd body electric guitar
That's something I've often contemplated doing. Do you have any
thoughts or plans on the chambering that you are able to share?
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
All of the guitars I make are chambered black walnut. I chamber out
everything I can and still retain their structural integrety. I leave
about 3/8" of wood around the edges for a good area to glue to. I
leave a strip down the middle the width of the bridge. I remove the
wood after the bridge because no force is exerted after that point.
Besides cutting down on alot of weight it adds sustain and the tone is
nice. No F holes. With a good string through or tuneomatic bridge and
a nut made from something besides plastic(bones good) they really sing.
I've made a couple of 3 pickup guitars that weighed just a bit over 4
1/2 pounds.
IMO its the only way to build one. If you do something similar I think
you'll be well pleased with the results
Good luck.
"Tony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:23:19 GMT, [email protected] (zz) wrote:
>its for chamberd body electric guitar
That's something I've often contemplated doing. Do you have any
thoughts or plans on the chambering that you are able to share?
Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)