On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:30:39 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>they (commercial factories) make large fish tank stands out of mdf. a large
>tank could weigh upwards of 1000 lbs.
- at apx. 8 lbs per gallon of water.
> is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
> such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
> Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
> lumber frame with mdf skin?
I doubt mdf on it's own would hold up. Depending on the weight of your
press, plywood alone might not do it either. I'd suggest a 2x4 frame with a
couple of extra cross members to support the press, covered it with mdf.
That's what I did. It's quite sturdy and if we ever have an earthquake
you'll find me hiding underneath.
On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
wrote:
>is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
>Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
>tillman
I built the router table in FWW earlier this year. It's a 2x4 frame
with MDF covering (in most places) It's superstrong and would carry a
LOT more weight. However, I don't consider it would be very strong
just in MDF.
BTW, I get as much free MDF/laminate offcuts as ever required from a
kitchen manufacturer/fitout place, they have a dumpster round the back
with ample supplies all year round, you just can't be too picky about
the color though. Try to find one in your area.
Barry Lennox
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
> wrote:
>
(snip)
> You'll also be wanting a biscuit jointer. It's just the best way to go
> about MDF carcassing. Rebated laps if you want some positive location,
> but go for those biscuits. Screws just don't work. For the "short
> grain" problem, neither do lock mitre bits.
>
-----------
Screws can work, but one has to take into account the nature of the material
and the effects of gravity. I use a Trend pocket-hole gizmo and it works
well. There are caveats however. If the screw is used as a fastener it will
work, if it is used to bear a load it will likely fail. If you use the wrong
screw the MDF may split, if you use the right screw in the wrong place it
may split. If you screw into an edge without the appropriate pilot hole it
will likely split. If you don't use the correct stepped drill for
pocket-holes it will split. Once one takes all that into account
pocket-holes will let you make things out of MDF without hassle, except
one....lining the parts up. So I agree with you that rebates and dadoes will
save a great deal of clamping effort and ensure proper line up of parts,
(the pocket-hole joints will try and move as you tighten them). I'm going to
practice a little with first 1mm and then 2mm dadoes to see what works best
for me.
Regarding the OP's query I would say that MDF is quite adequate but I would
use 22mm for the top and 18mm for the rest and I would use pocket-holes to
fasten it all together.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:30:32 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
>wrote:
>
>>is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>>such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
>MDF is pretty strong, especially in 3/4"
>
>What it's not good at is damp resistance (you _must_ paint, varnish or
>at least wax this).
I wouldn't have any part of the mdf in contact with the floor. Any
moisture on the end 'grain' and the stuff swells and weakens like
crazy.
--RC
>
>It's also moderately stiff, but not as good as ply, but it has poor
>resistance to long-term creep or sag. A cantilevered shelf might look
>fine when you make it, it might even hold up the weight you need, but
>come back in a year or two and it will be drooping like the "before"
>picture a viagra advert.. You really do need to support ends and tie
>shelves into back panels etc.
>
>MDF is also dense. This is a nuisance for anything you carry, but for
>a rolling tool stand on wheels, it might act in your favour for extra
>stability.
>
>You'll also be wanting a biscuit jointer. It's just the best way to go
>about MDF carcassing. Rebated laps if you want some positive location,
>but go for those biscuits. Screws just don't work. For the "short
>grain" problem, neither do lock mitre bits.
>
>>Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>>lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
>Either will work, although I tend to work plywood as 1/2" and use more
>panels of it.
>
>I wouldn't go for "skinned studwall" construction. With a thin MDF
>skin it's not stiff enough (OK for bookshelves, not for tools that
>have high-frequency vibration). With a thick MDF skin you can make
>something very big and strong, but I'd prefer to do it with taller
>egg-crate internals of MDF as a torsion box. Keeping those skins
>spaced well apart improves stiffness.
>
>Here's a plan you might be interested in
>http://christophermerrill.net/ww/plans/UTS/Tool_Stand_1.html
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
"tillius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
> such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
> Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
> lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
> tillman
It should be, but it is also very heavy to handle. I used 3/4" birch
plywood with good results. Mine has a drawer in the fron and the pancake
compressor sits in the bottom. Just be sure to use good casters for easy
rolling. I have 4" on mine.
"makesawdust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Adam Diehl Wrote:
>> tillius wrote:-
>> is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>> such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser;
>> etc?
>>
>> Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>> lumber frame with mdf skin?
>>
>> tillman-
>>
>> For a rolling tool bench, you'll want something more sturdy and stable
>> than just an MDF carcass... A frame made of 2x4 lumber and some metal
>> angle brackets would only slightly increase the cost to build the
>> bench,
>> and would lend a lot of stability to it.
>> -AD
>
> I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment on this one. The
> key to making a cabinent that is strong and won't fall to pieces under
> movement and vibration isn't heavier materials and steel brackets.
> It's thoughtful design, good joints, and appropriate adhesive and
> fasteners.
>
> My drill press is an old Shopsmith (1947 model) that sits on an MDF
> base that is shaped like a pyramid with a flat top. The unit is so
> heavy it takes two people to lift it. It doesn't have wheels, so when
> I need to move it, I drag it across my shop. This base has been in use
> for five years and is still rock solid. With proper design and
> execution MDF will work fine for a mobile work bench.
>
> I recommend that you build a typical box cabinet with 3/4 inch MDF.
> Cut dado's along the sides and back to hold the bottom panel. On the
> botton of the cabinet, use triangular corner bracing - these braces
> will also be the attachement points for the caster wheels - use the
> largest ones you can find that lock. Also use triagular bracing at the
> top of the cabinet, as this will provide added stability and serve as
> the attachment points for the top of the cabinet. Use 3/4 inch MDF for
> the top work surface, and run it over the edges by a couple inches, but
> round the corners; if one layer doesn't feel solid enough, add another
> layer.
>
> If you don't want to use a solid wood face frame for the cabinet, at
> least add a 3" to 4" strip of MDF along the front top of the cabinet
> running between the insides of the side panels; you can do the same
> beneath the bottom of the cabinet. Adding internal structures for
> shelves and drawers will even add to the strength of the cabinet.
>
> You could probably even use 3/4 inch particle board for this project
> and be find. Alternatively, if you want a bigger rolling cabinet,
> consider making several smaller cabinets and bolting them together,
> then adding the wheels. I built a large mobile base for a home brewery
> out of 3/4 inch particle board with three cabinets bolted together. It
> was bomb proof when I was finished (but very heavy!)
>
> I almost forgot...use plenty of glue and screws when assembling it.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> --
> makesawdust
they (commercial factories) make large fish tank stands out of mdf. a large
tank could weigh upwards of 1000 lbs.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:30:32 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Here's a plan you might be interested in
>http://christophermerrill.net/ww/plans/UTS/Tool_Stand_1.html
Awesome,
I am looking to build a workbench for my garage and I've found it!
Many thanks.
JB
On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
wrote:
>is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
>Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
>tillman
yes or no... depending on things like jointery, fasteners and
adhesives.
Bridger:
>yes or no... depending on things like jointery, fasteners and
>adhesives.
Ditto what Bridger John says. You could build it from
tissue paper if the injineering was correct.
Oh, and I do have a roll around stand for my drill press
made from MDF and it works fine but I understand most of the
ins and outs of the material.
UA100
tillius wrote:
> is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
> such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
> Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
> lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
> tillman
For a rolling tool bench, you'll want something more sturdy and stable
than just an MDF carcass. Whatever your tools are sitting on not only
has to support the weight of the tool, but also has to absorb the weight
of the stock you're working with, stresses created by using the tool,
and in the case of a rolling cabinet, any shock from rolling over uneven
surfaces (e.g., cracks in the floor, concrete joints, etc.) Also, the
slightest hint of instability will magnify any minute vibrations or
imbalances in your machinery. A frame made of 2x4 lumber and some metal
angle brackets would only slightly increase the cost to build the bench,
and would lend a lot of stability to it. You'll be glad you spent the
extra time and money when you're about to cut a mortise into a nice,
expensive piece of stock. Also, for a rolling cabinet, remember to get
casters with brakes on them! (probably obvious, but you never know!)
-AD
Personally I would use the MDF. It's strong, heavy very rigid,
provides a nice smooth surface. It can be pouted and shaped into
just about profile "if you want fancy". Takes screws and glues well.
Lift a sheet and you will think your lifting a tank. It's heavy
stuff. Excellent for a rolling cabinet, cause the weight will work
to your advantage with a drill press or mortiser on top.
MDF is also less expensive than Plywood.
The only caveat.. When you cut MDF you "must" wear a dust mask.
The dust is a very fine partical and between the dust and adhesive
particals, they are both respiratory health issues. Decent dust
masks are cheap in comparison to your health.
Pat
On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
wrote:
>is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
>
>Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
>tillman
Adam Diehl Wrote:
> tillius wrote:-
> is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
> such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser
> etc?
>
> Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
> lumber frame with mdf skin?
>
> tillman-
>
> For a rolling tool bench, you'll want something more sturdy and stable
> than just an MDF carcass... A frame made of 2x4 lumber and some metal
> angle brackets would only slightly increase the cost to build th
> bench,
> and would lend a lot of stability to it.
> -AD
I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment on this one. Th
key to making a cabinent that is strong and won't fall to pieces unde
movement and vibration isn't heavier materials and steel brackets.
It's thoughtful design, good joints, and appropriate adhesive an
fasteners.
My drill press is an old Shopsmith (1947 model) that sits on an MD
base that is shaped like a pyramid with a flat top. The unit is s
heavy it takes two people to lift it. It doesn't have wheels, so whe
I need to move it, I drag it across my shop. This base has been in us
for five years and is still rock solid. With proper design an
execution MDF will work fine for a mobile work bench.
I recommend that you build a typical box cabinet with 3/4 inch MDF.
Cut dado's along the sides and back to hold the bottom panel. On th
botton of the cabinet, use triangular corner bracing - these brace
will also be the attachement points for the caster wheels - use th
largest ones you can find that lock. Also use triagular bracing at th
top of the cabinet, as this will provide added stability and serve a
the attachment points for the top of the cabinet. Use 3/4 inch MDF fo
the top work surface, and run it over the edges by a couple inches, bu
round the corners; if one layer doesn't feel solid enough, add anothe
layer.
If you don't want to use a solid wood face frame for the cabinet, a
least add a 3" to 4" strip of MDF along the front top of the cabine
running between the insides of the side panels; you can do the sam
beneath the bottom of the cabinet. Adding internal structures fo
shelves and drawers will even add to the strength of the cabinet.
You could probably even use 3/4 inch particle board for this projec
and be find. Alternatively, if you want a bigger rolling cabinet
consider making several smaller cabinets and bolting them together
then adding the wheels. I built a large mobile base for a home brewer
out of 3/4 inch particle board with three cabinets bolted together. I
was bomb proof when I was finished (but very heavy!)
I almost forgot...use plenty of glue and screws when assembling it.
Good luck
--
makesawdust
On 29 Nov 2004 19:23:01 -0800, [email protected] (tillius)
wrote:
>is 3/4 mdf strong enough to build a cabinet carcass for my shop tools
>such as a rolling cabinet for my bench top drill press; mortiser; etc?
MDF is pretty strong, especially in 3/4"
What it's not good at is damp resistance (you _must_ paint, varnish or
at least wax this).
It's also moderately stiff, but not as good as ply, but it has poor
resistance to long-term creep or sag. A cantilevered shelf might look
fine when you make it, it might even hold up the weight you need, but
come back in a year or two and it will be drooping like the "before"
picture a viagra advert.. You really do need to support ends and tie
shelves into back panels etc.
MDF is also dense. This is a nuisance for anything you carry, but for
a rolling tool stand on wheels, it might act in your favour for extra
stability.
You'll also be wanting a biscuit jointer. It's just the best way to go
about MDF carcassing. Rebated laps if you want some positive location,
but go for those biscuits. Screws just don't work. For the "short
grain" problem, neither do lock mitre bits.
>Would it be better to use 3/4" hardwood plywood or a dimensional
>lumber frame with mdf skin?
Either will work, although I tend to work plywood as 1/2" and use more
panels of it.
I wouldn't go for "skinned studwall" construction. With a thin MDF
skin it's not stiff enough (OK for bookshelves, not for tools that
have high-frequency vibration). With a thick MDF skin you can make
something very big and strong, but I'd prefer to do it with taller
egg-crate internals of MDF as a torsion box. Keeping those skins
spaced well apart improves stiffness.
Here's a plan you might be interested in
http://christophermerrill.net/ww/plans/UTS/Tool_Stand_1.html
--
Smert' spamionam