I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,
etc).
I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the
"prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to
the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there
is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in
the grain).
I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin
("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw):
goo.gl/6aUzNZ
My plan was
(1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places
especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in
contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other
spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is
handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get
("bleeding"?) Other options are
(2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint.
(3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer
(a link from the paint is above).
(4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat
if necessary.
Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a
microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time
today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will
most-likely follow it! : )
Bill
On Sunday, August 27, 2017 at 8:53:51 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> I did try a 2" (angled) trim brush today. I never went back to my 3"=20
> brush even though it already had some paint on it. =20
OK, Bill. If you are going to be a professional painter, that's called a s=
ash brush, not an angled brush. ;^)
> That, along with=20
> making a point of trying to work faster, helped me work faster--I'm sure=
=20
> no where near as fast as you Robert.=20
Once I got the hang of things and worked alongside of a couple of my guys t=
hat have been professional painters for years, I work fast. Keep your head=
in the game, paint your surfaces with a good coat and move to the next are=
a as quickly as possible and you will, too. People concentrate on little f=
iddly details that only they will notice, or that the paint will cover up.
Due to a misspent youth, one of the painters that worked for me went to a "=
state sponsored institution" that taught him to paint so he would have a sk=
ill. When we were painting with some thin, crappy paint we got a lot of ru=
ns. I went over and got a brush and put it in my pocket and would smooth o=
ut the run and carefully feather the edges. My compatriot would simply tak=
e his finger and smear it back and forth until it was gone. When we went b=
ack to look, you couldn't see either one of our drips or sags. Lesson lear=
ned. Not only was he faster, but he didn't have to keep up with the brush,=
and didn't have to clean it every once and a while because it dried out so=
rapidly. =20
Surprise yourself. Time one of he surfaces you are painting at your normal=
speed. Then go to another surface the same size and paint absolutely as f=
ast as you can while doing an acceptable job. Bet you will cut your time i=
n half. Let the surfaces dry and then compare the quality of the finish. =
Quite likely you will see there isn't a lot of difference in the final prod=
uct. Then you will be able to adjust your speed to get the quality you fin=
d acceptable.
I feel myself "enjoying" the=20
> rolling and not rushing through it, especially when painting the easy=20
> area--that goes fast enough (and at least you get to stand up and move=20
> around! : ) ) Using the 2" brush avoids a lot of wasted effort.
>=20
> Here is a curious question. After washing my (1/2" nap) roller cover=20
> twice now, I notice it is "wider/fluffier" in the middle than on both=20
> ends. It seemed to work fine. Does this say something about it's=20
> lifespan? If it wasn't covering, I would replace it of course. It has=
=20
> a solid pvc core (I think older ones were cardboard?)
You aren't cleaning the roller covers correctly. Get some really cheap dish=
washing liquid (the stuff I buy at the discount stores is about $1 a bottle=
). Rinse all the paint you can off the roller cover under a running hose. =
Spread about 1/2 tsp on the DW detergent on the roller and work it into th=
e nap using a back and forth motion. This only takes about a minute, and m=
ake sure you get to the ends and inside the poly cover roll.
Rinse well until the water runs clear. Squeeze the water out of the roller,=
but then "whip it" out of the roller in one direction, then reverse the ro=
ller and do the same thing. The nap should be standing up. Let the roller=
dry undisturbed by letting it stand in its end.
The rollers don't "fluff" at the ends because there is paint residue left i=
n the rollers. Rollers cleaned properly will last through several jobs and=
it becomes inexpensive to buy the more costly covers. If you aren't going=
to clean them properly, buy the cheapest (not surprisingly, the worst to u=
se that give the worst results) roller covers you can find.
=20
> Maybe I'll get one of those paint screens for my next big painting job.
No kidding, it's a game changer!
>=20
> Thank you everyone who has contributed comments and suggestions to this=
=20
> thread (geared around making us all better painters!) One of my=20
> favorite things I learned about is Jomax (house cleaner)! : ) What's=20
> not to like about painting, huh?
LOL!! Atta, boy! BTW, Jomax works pretty good on cleaning brick, concrete,=
decks, fencing, and all kinds of other surfaces.
Robert
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:56:08 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 10:53:46 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint,
>>>> even when primed.
>>> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
>>> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
>>> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took
>>> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to
>>> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried
>>> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being
>>> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
>>> ground.
>> Your walls should just take a few minutes a side to roll out. Not sure why any wall on a structure that small would take that long. In about an hour you should have been able to "wall out" the siding on the whole structure. That of course does not mean cutting in, trimming, etc., just getting the paint on the big flat surfaces.
>>
>> When I started doing this professionally, I quit using roller trays and went to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use an extension. That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket and I don't have to bend over to load the roller. Need to go to lunch or stop between coats? Drop the screen in the bucket and put the top on for later use.
>>
>>> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
>>> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
>>> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the
>>> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has
>>> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
>>> second coat of paint?
>> It absolutely will. If the siding is plywood, then you will have exposed edges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers of plywood. This is where plywood starts to delaminate if it catches water from not being properly sealed. Likewise if it is some kind of press board. MOST grooves are pressed into the surface as a pattern, but some are cut. Regardless, the same problem exists and that is delamination or swelling at the grooves.
>>
>>> How about on the back which no one ever sees?
>> Shame on you! You think it will deteriorate and rot less because it is less apparent? You should think differently and realize that you need to be even more careful sealing an exterior surface that will receive weathering. If it is hidden from view, when there is damage from a poor sealing job, you won't see it until it is too late.
>>
>>> I only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't
>>> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please
>>> explain why I want to do that.
>> Again, if it is taking that much time you are doing it wrong. Sorry.
>>
>> Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the grooves before I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't care how much I get outside the grooves just as long as I get it in the grooves. You can slap on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet in two brush loads if you hold he brush parallel to the groove when applying. Work fast! You aren't finishing a piano. I load up the brush and do the grooves, around windows, inside corners and trims and anything else that I see fit and cut the whole building in before I start "walling out" the project.
>>
>> Really load your brush up (just before uncontrollable drips) and get the material on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out of paint and smooth out the material.
>>
>> When you load your roller, make sure you distribute the paint around the whole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the cover holds and amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area covered. If you don't have a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller screen, go get one. The 5 gallon pails are good for all kinds of stuff after paint, and are less than $3. Lids are about the same. I use them for all kinds of things including holding gun nails, holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof container, and my guys use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on the jobs. The screen can only be used for its purpose, but it is well worth the money. Likewise the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about $3, and the cheap metal models at HD are about $5. With a bucket/screen/extension, no more leaning over trays, and no more working off a ladder to get paint on the upper parts of the walls, no standing next to a wall to apply the paint, no more paint falling on your
>face from the roller, and it makes application MUCH easier and faster.
>>
>> Robert
>
>Thank you for the additional lesson! It occurred to me to maybe try a
>different brush for the grooves, as you suggested. I've been using a 3"
>brush. As you say, the rolling time is not that much, even with my
>tray. I use a handheld container I cut from a fabric softener or bleach
>bottle for brush work. I'll consider a "bucket" paint system in the
>future (I'm going to read your post again later too!) You were correct
>that I had a little bit of the "piano" syndrome when I started. I am
>getting better. The mosquitoes come visit at about 7:30 or 8:00 pm, so I
>need to get on it! : )
>
>Bill
If doing a LOT of painting a "power feed roller" is a good
investment. - a Graco may be overkill, but a Wagner SideKick sells for
about $120 Canadian - so likely less thsn $75 in rhwe USA. Paints from
anything from 1 to 5 gallon pail.
No more trays, no more "dipping and dripping" and going up and down
ladders - - -
On 8/27/2017 4:36 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:ontfut0qe6
> @news6.newsguy.com:
>
>> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
>> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
>> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took
>> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to
>> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried
>> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being
>> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
>> ground.
>>
>> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
>> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
>> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the
>> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has
>> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
>> second coat of paint? How about on the back which no one ever sees? I
>> only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't
>> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please
>> explain why I want to do that. Aside from the "fun", I mean.
>> : )
>>
>> Bill
>
> On the few things I've painted, I find the second coat develops the color
> better and fills in the tiny voids and imperfections in the first coat.
> This is dependent on the paint and techniques, of course.
>
> Puckdropper
>
Even so called "one coat" paint looks better with two.
As for the back, the only reason to paint would be weather protection if
in a place that would be affected.
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 7:10:14 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,=
=20
> etc).
>=20
> I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the=
=20
> "prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to=
=20
> the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there=20
> is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in=
=20
> the grain).
Make sure you have killed the mold. Staining is one thing, but mold can li=
ve on to ruin your finish another day. Several solutions are available and=
wouldn't cost much to apply on something that small. I use a highly dilute=
d commercial Clorox (mixed in tap water, applied with a $10 pump sprayer) o=
r Jomax house cleaner. Jomax is pretty much available everywhere and is mo=
re environmentally safe and safer to use as well. Clorox only on the heavy=
stuff. Wash with power washer to prep. No power washer? Get one of thos=
e hose end driveway washers.
Caulk, putty before primer. Zinsser 123 can be rolled and brushed, make su=
re you bought the "all surface" or "exterior". Don't use the inside stuff =
outside. After priming, any remaining cracks and crevices that need caulk =
will be readily apparent.
>=20
> I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin=20
> ("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
> Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw=
):
> goo.gl/6aUzNZ
>
Good paint. Roll with a 1/2" nap roller, and don't load up the roller with=
too much paint at one time.
=20
> My plan was
>=20
> (1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places=20
> especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in=20
> contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other=20
> spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is=
=20
> handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
If you have bare wood, don't be tempted to slather on the primer. A good c=
oat that covers completely is all you need. Primer is not a gap filler, it=
doesn't fill voids well (not at all on vertical surfaces) and won't dry pr=
operly if it is applied too thick. Apply enough that you cover the raw woo=
d well (like an even coat of paint) and stop. It says dry in one hour, but=
trust me on latex primers, wait two if you can before applying your top co=
at.
>=20
> I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get=20
> ("bleeding"?) Other options are
>=20
> (2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint=
.
If you only prime parts, the amount of penetration of the paint will be dif=
ferent, and thus will your sheen. You will create "holidays" in the finish=
that will be easily seen. Likewise, the paint that goes over the primer w=
ill look quite nice and have a different texture AND sheen as it is the sam=
e as putting two coats of finish on compared to just one.
>=20
> (3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer=
=20
> (a link from the paint is above).
>=20
> (4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat=20
> if necessary.
Don't believe it. I have tested everyone's primer/paint combos, and they o=
nly work well on surfaces where you changing colors, not painting damaged, =
weathered, or repaired surfaces. Plan on two coats for even surface textur=
es, color appearance, and sheen.
>=20
> Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
> I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a=20
> microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time=20
> today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
>=20
> Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will=20
> most-likely follow it! : )
A bold man, says I.
Go to the internet and ask strangers how to spend your weekend doing someth=
ing you don't want to do!
Seriously, lots of good help here on this venue. Personally, I would put a=
ll the work I needed into the project now because as we say in painting, "y=
ou can't prep enough". If your finish fails in a few years, you have to st=
art over with the cleaning, scraping, sanding, power washing, mold killing =
and on an on.
If you are careful in your steps now and apply your primer over very clean =
surfaces and apply two coats (come on... it's not that much longer with a 2=
00sq ft structure!)of paint it should last a long time. I have houses that=
I have painted down here in South Texas that look great after 10-15 years.=
Since that paint is on sale, you should probably pick up another gallon. =
If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint, even =
when primed.
Good luck!
Robert
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 01:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You could come back here, start a new thread and post the results of your e=
>xperimentation. That and the driveway sweeper nozzle are /great/ inexpensi=
>ve prep and cleaning tools.
Best painting tool I bought was a spinner for brushes and roller
covers, it has not put a bit of paint any where, but again BEST
painting tool EVER.
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:ontfut0qe6
@news6.newsguy.com:
> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took
> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to
> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried
> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being
> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
> ground.
>
> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the
> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has
> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
> second coat of paint? How about on the back which no one ever sees? I
> only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't
> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please
> explain why I want to do that. Aside from the "fun", I mean.
>: )
>
> Bill
On the few things I've painted, I find the second coat develops the color
better and fills in the tiny voids and imperfections in the first coat.
This is dependent on the paint and techniques, of course.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:05:13 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> Okay, it took me almost exactly 4 hours to paint all 4 sides today, not=
=20
> including set up and clean up. The end is in sight (though I bought some=
=20
> stuff to staple along the bottom, once I'm finished painting). Just 2=20
> sides left. (3*4=3D12 sides).
Now you're cooking! That's a actually a pretty good clip. It appears you g=
ot the hang of it.
>=20
> I did my brush and roller cleaning outside this time, sitting in a chair=
=20
> (instead of over the sink). The recommended dish washing soap=20
> (Palmolive) really made the roller nap feel nice. I slung the water out=
=20
> with an overhand throwing motion, as suggested, and I don't know how the=
=20
> roller cover liked it, but it felt really great on my back and shoulder=
=20
> (after doing that painting)! A little unexpected surprise. ; ) After=
=20
> being washed the roller cover looks much better than it's predecessor. =
=20
> I did a side-by-side comparison.
Resist all temptation to simply rinse with water. It doesn't get the job d=
one. Using soap not only saves the roller (plus, with really good paints w=
ater doesn't get the resins out) for futures use, but the clean roller give=
s a better job.
Don't take my word for it. These guys make the high dollar stuff and they =
specify soap in the cleaning process:
http://www.purdy.com/painting-resources/painting-faqs/paint-care-and-cleanu=
p
I don't paint everyday, but always seem to be painting my repairs, a couple=
of rooms in a house, and a full house or two a year. We paint with roller=
s and brushes when we can't spray.
While I only a few dozen uses out of a roller cover, I have paint brushes t=
hat I have literally had for YEARS. If you take of them there really isn't=
much to wear out. Once the "flags" are gone on the bristles, they go to e=
xterior applications where they see at least a couple more years of use. F=
or the record, my employees get 1/2 the life out of a roller cover and the =
brushes that I do because it is cheaper to rush through cleaning for paid e=
mployees and replace covers and brushes more often than to pay them $$ to c=
lean a $ brush/cover.
One thing I forgot to mention while we are on cleaning. Never throw away t=
he cardboard/paper cover that was on the brush when you bought it. Never. =
The medium price brushes have a very heavy paper cover that has a notch yo=
u can use to put the brush in it. The better ones have a spot of velcro as=
a keeper. That is so when the brush is completely dry you can put it back=
in its cover. This does two really important things. It keeps the brush =
clean, but more importantly helps keep the bristles from fraying out. When=
you clean your brush, shake the water out, and squeeze the bristles togeth=
er trying to keep them as flat as possible, approximating the shape of the =
brush when brand new. Store in the cover. I had an old painter show me tha=
t and it added years to the life of the brush.
=20
> I am really thankful for the suggestions and camaraderie I found here! =
=20
> I learned alot, my project is all the better for it, and I'm happier=20
> than I was! : )
Good for you! Nothing like the feeling of a job well done except the feeli=
ng of when you are finished. Painting exteriors is a lot easier than peopl=
e think it is if they are organized and stay focused. I actually started p=
ainting professionally (as opposed to always subbing out my painting) about=
20 years ago when I got tired of all the crap I was always getting from my=
subs. One day after I had dressed down my painting subcontractor for bein=
g late, he replied with "Aw FU, Robert. You can't fire me. You would be t=
otally screwed if I wasn't here."
He was right. But I fired him anyway. I had a lot of finishing work at th=
at time and put a full time painter on the payroll for about 6-7 years. So=
between him, all the subs I have had since then, the classes I have taken =
at Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore, I don't have any of the old dread o=
f painting. To me, it's just more work that pays pretty well, isn't dirty,=
isn't too physically demanding, and isn't dangerous unless I am up on a sc=
affold or tall ladder.
Glad things went your way on this job. Time for a beer and cigar!
Robert
On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 10:53:46 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint,=20
> > even when primed.=20
> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today=20
> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes=20
> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took=20
> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to=
=20
> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried=
=20
> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being=20
> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the=20
> ground.
Your walls should just take a few minutes a side to roll out. Not sure why=
any wall on a structure that small would take that long. In about an hour=
you should have been able to "wall out" the siding on the whole structure.=
That of course does not mean cutting in, trimming, etc., just getting the=
paint on the big flat surfaces.
When I started doing this professionally, I quit using roller trays and wen=
t to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use an extension. =
That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket and I don't have to b=
end over to load the roller. Need to go to lunch or stop between coats? Dr=
op the screen in the bucket and put the top on for later use.
=20
> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question: =20
> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)=20
> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the=
=20
> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has=20
> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a=20
> second coat of paint? =20
It absolutely will. If the siding is plywood, then you will have exposed e=
dges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers of plywood. Thi=
s is where plywood starts to delaminate if it catches water from not being =
properly sealed. Likewise if it is some kind of press board. MOST grooves=
are pressed into the surface as a pattern, but some are cut. Regardless, =
the same problem exists and that is delamination or swelling at the grooves=
. =20
> How about on the back which no one ever sees?
Shame on you! You think it will deteriorate and rot less because it is les=
s apparent? You should think differently and realize that you need to be e=
ven more careful sealing an exterior surface that will receive weathering. =
If it is hidden from view, when there is damage from a poor sealing job, y=
ou won't see it until it is too late.
=20
> I only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't=
=20
> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please=20
> explain why I want to do that.=20
Again, if it is taking that much time you are doing it wrong. Sorry.
Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the grooves befor=
e I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't care how much I ge=
t outside the grooves just as long as I get it in the grooves. You can slap=
on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet in two brush loads if you hold=
he brush parallel to the groove when applying. Work fast! You aren't fini=
shing a piano. I load up the brush and do the grooves, around windows, ins=
ide corners and trims and anything else that I see fit and cut the whole bu=
ilding in before I start "walling out" the project.
Really load your brush up (just before uncontrollable drips) and get the ma=
terial on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out of paint and=
smooth out the material.
When you load your roller, make sure you distribute the paint around the wh=
ole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the cover holds and =
amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area covered. If you don't ha=
ve a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller screen, go get one. The 5 gallon p=
ails are good for all kinds of stuff after paint, and are less than $3. Lid=
s are about the same. I use them for all kinds of things including holding=
gun nails, holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof container, and my g=
uys use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on the jobs. The scree=
n can only be used for its purpose, but it is well worth the money. Likewi=
se the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about $3, and the cheap meta=
l models at HD are about $5. With a bucket/screen/extension, no more leani=
ng over trays, and no more working off a ladder to get paint on the upper p=
arts of the walls, no standing next to a wall to apply the paint, no more p=
aint falling on your face from the roller, and it makes application MUCH ea=
sier and faster.
Robert
On 8/29/2017 12:07 PM, Markem wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 01:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You could come back here, start a new thread and post the results of your e=
>> xperimentation. That and the driveway sweeper nozzle are /great/ inexpensi=
>> ve prep and cleaning tools.
>
> Best painting tool I bought was a spinner for brushes and roller
> covers, it has not put a bit of paint any where, but again BEST
> painting tool EVER.
>
Best painting tool I had is a grandson that wanted to make a few bucks.
He works cheap and does a decent job.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:54:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/27/2017 4:36 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:ontfut0qe6
>> @news6.newsguy.com:
>>
>>> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
>>> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
>>> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took
>>> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to
>>> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried
>>> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being
>>> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
>>> ground.
>>>
>>> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
>>> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
>>> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the
>>> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has
>>> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
>>> second coat of paint? How about on the back which no one ever sees? I
>>> only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't
>>> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please
>>> explain why I want to do that. Aside from the "fun", I mean.
>>> : )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> On the few things I've painted, I find the second coat develops the color
>> better and fills in the tiny voids and imperfections in the first coat.
>> This is dependent on the paint and techniques, of course.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
>Even so called "one coat" paint looks better with two.
>
>As for the back, the only reason to paint would be weather protection if
>in a place that would be affected.
One more reason - to not look like a cheap-ass when someone thinks to
look at the back - "What a cheap-assed lazy beggar - only did 3/4 of
the job!!"
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:11:30 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> I made a point of timing myself yesterday. I painted a 16.5' x 7' side=20
> wall in very close to an hour.
> How do you compare?
Painting out of a 5 gallon bucket with a screen and a roller extension, abo=
ut 35 minutes from cut in to roll out one coat. 20 - 25 minutes to cut in d=
ue to the grooves, and cutting along each side up to a contrasting trim and=
up against the soffits, and 10 minutes to wall out over a primed surface. =
=20
> I believe you, I've seen that different approaches (slots first, or=20
> second for instance) leave equivalent results. Slopping around the paint=
=20
> too much, starts to lead to too many more drips, and that's where I am=20
> drawing the line.
Load the brush/roller correctly (evenly) and apply quickly to your surfaces=
and you can apply a lot of material to the surface and spread it out rathe=
r than reloading. When I paint siding grooves, the paint drip is running d=
own the groove in front of the brush for about a foot. I go half way down =
on one load, then go over it ONE time to smooth out the paint. Load the br=
ush once more and I have the groove in 4 or so strokes with two brush loads=
.
> hmm. I didn't think of the ends, and I've never used anything besides=20
> water. OK, I'm half-way through the coating part (6 of 12 "sides").=20
> I'll buy a new roller cover ($5), and try your strategy. My dish washing=
=20
> detergent is "really cheap" since there always seems to be a bottle next=
=20
> to our kitchen sink. I am quite willing to try your approach, since=20
> working at our indoor utility sink, which is low", plays havoc with my=
=20
> back, like working over the hood of a car.
I get several jobs out of a my roller covers and it isn't unusual for me to=
have them for a year. I use the cheap green nap crap rollers when I have =
a job that is a one off for a landlord that has a paint that is difficult t=
o clean. Brown paints, red paints, etc., can be hard to get completely out=
of a roller, so those are my single job roller covers. More importantly I=
don't want to be constantly buying roller covers. That being said, I buy =
moderate quality covers for my guys as I don't want a guy making $15 an hou=
r cleaning a $4 roller cover for 15 minutes to get it really clean. I buy =
the good ones for me as I can make business calls using my headset while cl=
eaning.
> Usually, at that point, I find myself wondering whether I can stand up. =
;)
Gotcha! Another reason to have that 5 gallon bucket with a lid. It's a sy=
stem. You are finished painting for the day, so you put the lid on it to s=
ecure the remaining paint. Or clean it out and let it dry so you can store =
your dried roller covers and rollers later. With the lid on it, you can si=
t on it while you are cleaning your rollers, brushes, etc.
> Thanks, I was curious whether there was a difference in the way they=20
> laid paint. It there weren't, you could argue that cheap ones might be=
=20
> effective as "disposable". Surely there is a review of performance=20
> online. I would find that interesting.
Don't know about an online review but I can tell you there is a big differe=
nce. Mostly in durability and their ability to load paint. The cheapies d=
on't lay out the product as well, they tend to lose their nap fibers in thi=
ck paints or some of the ammonia laden paints (those are the mold control p=
aints). And when they don't hold as much paint, they require more frequent =
loading which means added time on the project. It doesn't sound like much,=
but if they hold 25% less paint then it adds a lot to a guy painting with =
one of those all day long.=20
> I have at least 2 of those things in mind. I know it will be a real time=
=20
> saver if it works on the deck (generic "Trex"--more porous, rougher=20
> texture than real Trex). =20
You could come back here, start a new thread and post the results of your e=
xperimentation. That and the driveway sweeper nozzle are /great/ inexpensi=
ve prep and cleaning tools.
Robert
Rest assured the mold is alive and well. Since latex is a permeable coatin=
g, it will continue to live underneath the paint and can "blossom" later. =
=20
Cleaning the Jomax out of the sprayer will allow you to use it on other pro=
jects. The baking soda mix you described is what you need, and make sure y=
ou rinse it out thoroughly. Jomax's active ingredients are neutralized by =
the baking soda.
One of these tips, which are quite handy for washing other things too, are =
the tips I was talking about. I use them for light cleaning myself on smal=
l projects (like yours) where I don't want to drag out my pressure washer a=
nd all the attendant stuff.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-Big-Shot-Super-Nozzle-LBSR-1/202514529
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sun-Joe-Solid-Brass-Sweeper-Jet-Hose-Nozzle-SJI-=
1JHN/206383827
I am not sure why people hate to paint so much. If you learn to do it righ=
t and follow all the steps it can be one of the more rewarding things you c=
an do in home maintenance and repair. Today's paints are more forgiving an=
d longer lasting than they have ever been. They are easier to apply, too.
Robert
Robert
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 7:10:14 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,=
=20
> etc).
>=20
> I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the=
=20
> "prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to=
=20
> the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there=20
> is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in=
=20
> the grain).
>=20
> I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin=20
> ("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
> Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw=
):
> goo.gl/6aUzNZ
>=20
> My plan was
>=20
> (1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places=20
> especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in=20
> contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other=20
> spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is=
=20
> handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
>=20
> I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get=20
> ("bleeding"?) Other options are
>=20
> (2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint=
.
>=20
> (3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer=
=20
> (a link from the paint is above).
>=20
> (4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat=20
> if necessary.
>=20
> Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
> I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a=20
> microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time=20
> today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
>=20
> Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will=20
> most-likely follow it! : )
>=20
> Bill
Bill, too bad you bought the Pittsburg. Those who are saying the mold is s=
till alive and well are correct, unless you knock it back and put two coats=
of Kils on it. =20
Then go for BLP Mobile paint. Living where the morning humidity is always =
above 90% (and usually 95%) its the only paint I have found that will succe=
ssfully resist getting moldy. My shop is 25yrs old, and I am about to repa=
int it for the second time, it still does not have any mold or mildew on it=
. I am just repainting because I want to, not that I need to.
On Fri, 01 Sep 2017 01:29:30 -0500, Jerry Osage wrote:
>On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 20:04:06 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>I did my brush and roller cleaning outside this time, sitting in a chair
>>(instead of over the sink). The recommended dish washing soap
>>(Palmolive) really made the roller nap feel nice. I slung the water out
>>with an overhand throwing motion, as suggested, and I don't know how the
>>roller cover liked it, but it felt really great on my back and shoulder
>>(after doing that painting)! A little unexpected surprise. ; ) After
>>being washed the roller cover looks much better than it's predecessor.
>>I did a side-by-side comparison.
>>
>The most innovative roller washing technique I've ever seen was by my
>daughter when she was about 14. When she finished painting her room she
>went out in the edge of the lawn and propped up the roller pole so that
>the roller was vertical and a foot or so off the ground.
>
>She then stepped into a 44 gallon plastic trash bag, pulled it up and
>tightened the draw string. then she hit the roller with a stream of
>water from a hose. The centrifugal force cleaned the roller quickly and
>left a good looking nap. them she washed off the front of the bag she
>was standing in and hosed down the lawn where there were signs of paint.
>Then she shook the water off the bag, put the roller over her shoulder
>and came to the house.
That's the way I wash roller covers but she did it the hard way. Just
keep the roller vertical in the sink and spray down. The spatter is
contained in the sink. Let the roller spin and it cleans up quickly.
>
>Her mother and I were watching. As she came by us she said, "That's the
>way to do it". I said, "Interesting". Her mom said, "Honey, I would
>have just wrapped the roller in Plastic Wrap and tossed it".
Good roller covers aren't cheap. I don't throw them away after a
single use.
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 20:04:06 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I did my brush and roller cleaning outside this time, sitting in a chair
>(instead of over the sink). The recommended dish washing soap
>(Palmolive) really made the roller nap feel nice. I slung the water out
>with an overhand throwing motion, as suggested, and I don't know how the
>roller cover liked it, but it felt really great on my back and shoulder
>(after doing that painting)! A little unexpected surprise. ; ) After
>being washed the roller cover looks much better than it's predecessor.
>I did a side-by-side comparison.
>
The most innovative roller washing technique I've ever seen was by my
daughter when she was about 14. When she finished painting her room she
went out in the edge of the lawn and propped up the roller pole so that
the roller was vertical and a foot or so off the ground.
She then stepped into a 44 gallon plastic trash bag, pulled it up and
tightened the draw string. then she hit the roller with a stream of
water from a hose. The centrifugal force cleaned the roller quickly and
left a good looking nap. them she washed off the front of the bag she
was standing in and hosed down the lawn where there were signs of paint.
Then she shook the water off the bag, put the roller over her shoulder
and came to the house.
Her mother and I were watching. As she came by us she said, "That's the
way to do it". I said, "Interesting". Her mom said, "Honey, I would
have just wrapped the roller in Plastic Wrap and tossed it".
--
Jerry O.
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:09:52 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,
>etc).
>
>I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the
>"prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to
>the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there
>is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in
>the grain).
>
>I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin
>("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
>Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw):
>goo.gl/6aUzNZ
>
>My plan was
>
>(1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places
>especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in
>contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other
>spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is
>handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
>
>I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get
>("bleeding"?) Other options are
>
>(2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint.
>
>(3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer
>(a link from the paint is above).
>
>(4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat
>if necessary.
>
>Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
>I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a
>microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time
>today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
>
>Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will
>most-likely follow it! : )
>
>Bill
.. paint brush or sprayer ?
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:09:52 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,
>> etc).
>>
>> I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the
>> "prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to
>> the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there
>> is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in
>> the grain).
>>
>> I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin
>> ("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
>> Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw):
>> goo.gl/6aUzNZ
>>
>> My plan was
>>
>> (1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places
>> especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in
>> contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other
>> spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is
>> handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
>>
>> I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get
>> ("bleeding"?) Other options are
>>
>> (2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint.
>>
>> (3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer
>> (a link from the paint is above).
>>
>> (4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat
>> if necessary.
>>
>> Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
>> I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a
>> microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time
>> today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestion!
>>
>> Bill
>
>
>
> .. paint brush or sprayer ?
Good question, sorry I didn't include that information in my post. Brush
and roller.
[email protected] wrote:
> Since that paint is on sale, you should probably pick up another
> gallon. If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of
> paint, even when primed.
> Good luck!
>
> Robert
>
Thank you Robert for your VERY HELPFUL reply to my post! I WILL pick up
another gallon of the paint--which was on sale "even better" when I
bought the first 2 gallons. I will also be buying Jomax (with the
assumption that at least a few of those tens of thousands of black
remnants of mold still have some life in them--maybe All of them do...),
and another gallon of primer. I'm glad I have some Menards rebate
credit! Who said prepping isn't a lot of fun, right? %-)
While I scrubbed today for 4 hours with a brush on a stick, I thought to
myself that a pro would probably use a power washer. As it happens I
bought a garden sprayer this spring, so I have that (to help apply the
Jomax). I assume and hope that by "hose end driveway washer", you mean
a nozzled garden hose (since that's what I have).
The directions for the Jomax say "clean the sprayer with water and
baking soda". Could someone possibly express that in layman's terms? Is
the idea that if you add a tablespoon of baking soda to a gallon of
water in the tank that you will clean but won't plug the sprayer
(Stanley "backpack" sprayer)? Please adjust my guess as appropriate.
The directions for the sprayer suggest detergent for cleaning. btw,
this is almost a lot of work (I left out the part where I removed a
bunch of old caulk). : ) Somehow doing it takes less time than
thinking about it.
I feel another day "wiser".
Thanks!
Bill
[email protected] wrote:
> Rest assured the mold is alive and well. Since latex is a permeable coating, it will continue to live underneath the paint and can "blossom" later.
>
> Cleaning the Jomax out of the sprayer will allow you to use it on other projects. The baking soda mix you described is what you need, and make sure you rinse it out thoroughly. Jomax's active ingredients are neutralized by the baking soda.
>
> One of these tips, which are quite handy for washing other things too, are the tips I was talking about. I use them for light cleaning myself on small projects (like yours) where I don't want to drag out my pressure washer and all the attendant stuff.
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-Big-Shot-Super-Nozzle-LBSR-1/202514529
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sun-Joe-Solid-Brass-Sweeper-Jet-Hose-Nozzle-SJI-1JHN/206383827
>
> I am not sure why people hate to paint so much. If you learn to do it right and follow all the steps it can be one of the more rewarding things you can do in home maintenance and repair. Today's paints are more forgiving and longer lasting than they have ever been. They are easier to apply, too.
>
> Robert
>
>
Great! I'm off to the store (actually, two of them). Thanks for the
tips! :)
Bill
[email protected] wrote:
> Rest assured the mold is alive and well. Since latex is a permeable coating, it will continue to live underneath the paint and can "blossom" later.
>
> Cleaning the Jomax out of the sprayer will allow you to use it on other projects. The baking soda mix you described is what you need, and make sure you rinse it out thoroughly. Jomax's active ingredients are neutralized by the baking soda.
>
> One of these tips, which are quite handy for washing other things too, are the tips I was talking about. I use them for light cleaning myself on small projects (like yours) where I don't want to drag out my pressure washer and all the attendant stuff.
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-Big-Shot-Super-Nozzle-LBSR-1/202514529
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sun-Joe-Solid-Brass-Sweeper-Jet-Hose-Nozzle-SJI-1JHN/206383827
>
> I am not sure why people hate to paint so much. If you learn to do it right and follow all the steps it can be one of the more rewarding things you can do in home maintenance and repair. Today's paints are more forgiving and longer lasting than they have ever been. They are easier to apply, too.
>
> Robert
>
> Robert
I picked up the "Little Big Shot". It is rather impressive--it even
removes some paint. I used the Jomax product today and got about 85%
more prepped. The shed being tan, it almost looks like bare wood now.
No doubt, I've got a nice base surface for my primer and paint. Thank
you for your help. I think "my new tools" should also be handy in
cleaning my deck and some concrete that doesn't slope steeply enough.
I'll post a picture of my shed after I'm completely finished working on
it. Tomorrow, we get to paint. : ) Of course, that is the singular we.
Bill
Dr. Deb wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 7:10:14 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
>> I recall that in the spring we were discussing paint ($herwin-Williams,
>> etc).
>>
>> I am repainting my 200 square foot shed (my first time). I finished the
>> "prep" today. I think the shed has engineered wood sides--not smooth to
>> the touch. I am basically covering tan paint with tan paint (but there
>> is significant discoloration (darker) in some areas due to mold left in
>> the grain).
>>
>> I purchased some tan Pittsburgh "Paramount" exterior paint, satin
>> ("exceptional one coat coverage") ~$30/gal.
>> Here is a link (shortened, from being one of the longest links I ever saw):
>> goo.gl/6aUzNZ
>>
>> My plan was
>>
>> (1) to use Zinsser 1,2,3 primer (white) where necessary (places
>> especially 0-3 feet from the ground where there was vegetation in
>> contact with the shed, and on some parts of the "framework" and other
>> spots which lost some paint), and then apply a coat of my paint. This is
>> handy since I already have a gallon of Zinsser from another project.
>>
>> I started getting concerned about the results I was going to get
>> ("bleeding"?) Other options are
>>
>> (2) Use Zinsser primer over the whole shed and then apply a coat of paint.
>>
>> (3) Use 2 coats of the paint, which is advertised to be it's own primer
>> (a link from the paint is above).
>>
>> (4) Proceed with option (1), as planned, prepared to add a second coat
>> if necessary.
>>
>> Which method would you recommend? I know you know better than I do!
>> I want it to look great, but no one is going to look at it under a
>> microscope. I mean, I cleaned the brown metal door for the first time
>> today after 8 years and it looked pretty nice (I'm not painting that).
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestion! Please be a bit careful, because I will
>> most-likely follow it! : )
>>
>> Bill
> Bill, too bad you bought the Pittsburg. Those who are saying the mold is still alive and well are correct, unless you knock it back and put two coats of Kils on it.
The Jomax did a very good job. Not perfect, but probably quite
adequate. Certainly I'm working on a significantly higher plane now than
I was going to be work at, so I'm very pleased with where I am. My
humidity extremes are not as much as yours. I mainly had problems where
someone "decorated" the shed with a big ivy wreath (before I bought the
house), and a bit near the bottom edge. And the Jomax worked pretty
well. Thank you for your suggestions. I'll note them for the next
time! : )
Bill
>
>
> Then go for BLP Mobile paint. Living where the morning humidity is always above 90% (and usually 95%) its the only paint I have found that will successfully resist getting moldy. My shop is 25yrs old, and I am about to repaint it for the second time, it still does not have any mold or mildew on it. I am just repainting because I want to, not that I need to.
[email protected] wrote:
> If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint,
> even when primed.
Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
(the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took
me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought to
myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I tried
working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being
more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
ground.
Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of the
roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has
been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
second coat of paint? How about on the back which no one ever sees? I
only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don't
mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please
explain why I want to do that. Aside from the "fun", I mean.
: )
Bill
[email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 10:53:46 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of paint,
>>> even when primed.
>> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed today
>> (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I used, makes
>> things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system" down yet.It took=
>> me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat. I thought t=
o
>> myself that a pro would work faster, so when I went back to it, I trie=
d
>> working faster. I sped up considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being=
>> more liberal with the primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the
>> ground.
> Your walls should just take a few minutes a side to roll out. Not sure=
why any wall on a structure that small would take that long. In about a=
n hour you should have been able to "wall out" the siding on the whole st=
ructure. That of course does not mean cutting in, trimming, etc., just g=
etting the paint on the big flat surfaces.
>
> When I started doing this professionally, I quit using roller trays and=
went to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use an extens=
ion. That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket and I don't h=
ave to bend over to load the roller. Need to go to lunch or stop between=
coats? Drop the screen in the bucket and put the top on for later use.
> =20
>> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my question:
>> Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in w.w. parlance)
>> about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base to the edge of th=
e
>> roof. This is pretty standard construction, I think. This groove has=
>> been primed, and will be painted. Will that groove benefit from a
>> second coat of paint?
> It absolutely will. If the siding is plywood, then you will have expos=
ed edges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers of plywood=
=2E This is where plywood starts to delaminate if it catches water from =
not being properly sealed. Likewise if it is some kind of press board. =
MOST grooves are pressed into the surface as a pattern, but some are cut.=
Regardless, the same problem exists and that is delamination or swellin=
g at the grooves.
>
>> How about on the back which no one ever sees?
> Shame on you! You think it will deteriorate and rot less because it is=
less apparent? You should think differently and realize that you need t=
o be even more careful sealing an exterior surface that will receive weat=
hering. If it is hidden from view, when there is damage from a poor seal=
ing job, you won't see it until it is too late.
> =20
>> I only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I don=
't
>> mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so kind, please=
>> explain why I want to do that.
> Again, if it is taking that much time you are doing it wrong. Sorry.
>
> Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the grooves b=
efore I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't care how muc=
h I get outside the grooves just as long as I get it in the grooves. You =
can slap on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet in two brush loads i=
f you hold he brush parallel to the groove when applying. Work fast! You=
aren't finishing a piano. I load up the brush and do the grooves, aroun=
d windows, inside corners and trims and anything else that I see fit and =
cut the whole building in before I start "walling out" the project.
>
> Really load your brush up (just before uncontrollable drips) and get th=
e material on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out of pai=
nt and smooth out the material.
>
> When you load your roller, make sure you distribute the paint around th=
e whole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the cover hold=
s and amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area covered. If you =
don't have a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller screen, go get one. The =
5 gallon pails are good for all kinds of stuff after paint, and are less =
than $3. Lids are about the same. I use them for all kinds of things inc=
luding holding gun nails, holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof con=
tainer, and my guys use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on th=
e jobs. The screen can only be used for its purpose, but it is well wort=
h the money. Likewise the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about =
$3, and the cheap metal models at HD are about $5. With a bucket/screen/=
extension, no more leaning over trays, and no more working off a ladder t=
o get paint on the upper parts of the walls, no standing next to a wall t=
o apply the paint, no more paint falling on your face from the roller, an=
d it makes application MUCH easier and faster.
>
> Robert
Thank you for the additional lesson! It occurred to me to maybe try a=20
different brush for the grooves, as you suggested. I've been using a 3"=20
brush. As you say, the rolling time is not that much, even with my=20
tray. I use a handheld container I cut from a fabric softener or bleach=20
bottle for brush work. I'll consider a "bucket" paint system in the=20
future (I'm going to read your post again later too!) You were correct=20
that I had a little bit of the "piano" syndrome when I started. I am=20
getting better. The mosquitoes come visit at about 7:30 or 8:00 pm, so I =
need to get on it! : )
Bill
On 8/27/17 4:49 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 10:53:46 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> If the surfaces are worn to bare, they will soak up plenty of
>>> paint, even when primed.
>> Wow, that sort of surprises me. I got 3 of the 4 sides primed
>> today (the front side has a ramp which, along with the ladder I
>> used, makes things slow), additionally, I didn't have "my system"
>> down yet.It took me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped
>> to eat. I thought to myself that a pro would work faster, so when
>> I went back to it, I tried working faster. I sped up
>> considerably, at perhaps, the cost of being more liberal with the
>> primer, and leaving more of it dripping to the ground.
>
> Your walls should just take a few minutes a side to roll out. Not
> sure why any wall on a structure that small would take that long.
> In about an hour you should have been able to "wall out" the siding
> on the whole structure. That of course does not mean cutting in,
> trimming, etc., just getting the paint on the big flat surfaces.
>
> When I started doing this professionally, I quit using roller trays
> and went to a five gallon bucket and a screen. Next, I always use
> an extension. That way I have plenty of material in a stable bucket
> and I don't have to bend over to load the roller. Need to go to
> lunch or stop between coats? Drop the screen in the bucket and put
> the top on for later use.
>
>> Okay (Robert, or anyone else who is interested), here is my
>> question: Every 12" or so, there is a vertical slot (groove in
>> w.w. parlance) about 3/8" wide and 3/8" deep, running from the base
>> to the edge of the roof. This is pretty standard construction, I
>> think. This groove has been primed, and will be painted. Will
>> that groove benefit from a second coat of paint?
>
> It absolutely will. If the siding is plywood, then you will have
> exposed edges on both sides of the cut where you can see the layers
> of plywood. This is where plywood starts to delaminate if it
> catches water from not being properly sealed. Likewise if it is some
> kind of press board. MOST grooves are pressed into the surface as a
> pattern, but some are cut. Regardless, the same problem exists and
> that is delamination or swelling at the grooves.
>
>> How about on the back which no one ever sees?
>
> Shame on you! You think it will deteriorate and rot less because it
> is less apparent? You should think differently and realize that you
> need to be even more careful sealing an exterior surface that will
> receive weathering. If it is hidden from view, when there is damage
> from a poor sealing job, you won't see it until it is too late.
>
>> I only ask because those grooves take 50% of the painting time. I
>> don't mind giving those grooves 2 coats, but, if you will be so
>> kind, please explain why I want to do that.
>
> Again, if it is taking that much time you are doing it wrong. Sorry.
>
> Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the
> grooves before I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing. I don't
> care how much I get outside the grooves just as long as I get it in
> the grooves. You can slap on paint to cover the groove on an 8' sheet
> in two brush loads if you hold he brush parallel to the groove when
> applying. Work fast! You aren't finishing a piano. I load up the
> brush and do the grooves, around windows, inside corners and trims
> and anything else that I see fit and cut the whole building in
> before I start "walling out" the project.
>
> Really load your brush up (just before uncontrollable drips) and get
> the material on the surface. Come back when the brush is almost out
> of paint and smooth out the material.
>
> When you load your roller, make sure you distribute the paint around
> the whole circumference of the roller cover. Fully charged, the
> cover holds and amazing amount of paint and can get a lot of area
> covered. If you don't have a 5 gallon pail and lid and a roller
> screen, go get one. The 5 gallon pails are good for all kinds of
> stuff after paint, and are less than $3. Lids are about the same. I
> use them for all kinds of things including holding gun nails,
> holding my sheetmetal tools in a waterproof container, and my guys
> use them to carry odds and ends of tools around on the jobs. The
> screen can only be used for its purpose, but it is well worth the
> money. Likewise the extension. A cheap wooden extension is about $3,
> and the cheap metal models at HD are about $5. With a
> bucket/screen/extension, no more leaning over trays, and no more
> working off a ladder to get paint on the upper parts of the walls,
> no standing next to a wall to apply the paint, no more paint falling
> on your face from the roller, and it makes application MUCH easier
> and faster.
>
> Robert
>
When I was painting the T1-11 OSB-ish stuff on my Sharn, I ended up
using the end of the nappy roller and pushed it at an angle into the
grooves. It went faster than using a brush for me.
It was a way to get the most paint in there, the fastest. Then I
finished the grooves with a quick, light, pass from the brush just to
even it out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Try this: I use a 2" paint brush and slather the paint on the grooves before I pain the field if I am rolling and brushing.
I did try a 2" (angled) trim brush today. I never went back to my 3"
brush even though it already had some paint on it. That, along with
making a point of trying to work faster, helped me work faster--I'm sure
no where near as fast as you Robert. I feel myself "enjoying" the
rolling and not rushing through it, especially when painting the easy
area--that goes fast enough (and at least you get to stand up and move
around! : ) ) Using the 2" brush avoids a lot of wasted effort.
Here is a curious question. After washing my (1/2" nap) roller cover
twice now, I notice it is "wider/fluffier" in the middle than on both
ends. It seemed to work fine. Does this say something about it's
lifespan? If it wasn't covering, I would replace it of course. It has
a solid pvc core (I think older ones were cardboard?)
Maybe I'll get one of those paint screens for my next big painting job.
Thank you everyone who has contributed comments and suggestions to this
thread (geared around making us all better painters!) One of my
favorite things I learned about is Jomax (house cleaner)! : ) What's
not to like about painting, huh?
Bill
[email protected] wrote:
> OK, Bill. If you are going to be a professional painter, that's called a sash brush, not an angled brush. ;^)
OK, I saw at Lowes they call them "angled sash brushes". But I'm not
painting window frames, so I left out the "sash" part. ; ) In
woodcarving gouges, a similar shape is called "skew" (which is what I
originally was going to call it--a "skew brush"). They must put the
"angled" in there for novices.. According to the dictionary, I see
"skew" means oblique or slant. Never know what you're going to learn
here. : )
> People concentrate on little fiddly details that only they will
> notice, or that the paint will cover up.
Yes, I occasionally catch myself doing that. Not as much second day as
the first, as I was putting more paint on a 2" brush, and had fewer
fiddly details.
>
> Surprise yourself. Time one of he surfaces you are painting at your normal speed. Then go to another surface the same size and paint absolutely as fast as you can while doing an acceptable job. Bet you will cut your time in half.
I made a point of timing myself yesterday. I painted a 16.5' x 7' side
wall in very close to an hour.
How do you compare?
> Let the surfaces dry and then compare the quality of the finish. Quite likely you will see there isn't a lot of difference in the final product. Then you will be able to adjust your speed to get the quality you find acceptable.
I believe you, I've seen that different approaches (slots first, or
second for instance) leave equivalent results. Slopping around the paint
too much, starts to lead to too many more drips, and that's where I am
drawing the line.
> You aren't cleaning the roller covers correctly. Get some really cheap dishwashing liquid (the stuff I buy at the discount stores is about $1 a bottle). Rinse all the paint you can off the roller cover under a running hose. Spread about 1/2 tsp on the DW detergent on the roller and work it into the nap using a back and forth motion. This only takes about a minute, and make sure you get to the ends and inside the poly cover roll.
hmm. I didn't think of the ends, and I've never used anything besides
water. OK, I'm half-way through the coating part (6 of 12 "sides").
I'll buy a new roller cover ($5), and try your strategy. My dish washing
detergent is "really cheap" since there always seems to be a bottle next
to our kitchen sink. I am quite willing to try your approach, since
working at our indoor utility sink, which is low", plays havoc with my
back, like working over the hood of a car.
> Rinse well until the water runs clear. Squeeze the water out of the roller, but then "whip it" out of the roller in one direction, then reverse the roller and do the same thing. The nap should be standing up.
Usually, at that point, I find myself wondering whether I can stand up. ;)
> If you aren't going to clean them properly, buy the cheapest (not surprisingly, the worst to use that give the worst results) roller covers you can find.
Thanks, I was curious whether there was a difference in the way they
laid paint. It there weren't, you could argue that cheap ones might be
effective as "disposable". Surely there is a review of performance
online. I would find that interesting.
> One of my
>> favorite things I learned about is Jomax (house cleaner)! : ) What's
>> not to like about painting, huh?
> LOL!! Atta, boy! BTW, Jomax works pretty good on cleaning brick, concrete, decks, fencing, and all kinds of other surfaces.
I have at least 2 of those things in mind. I know it will be a real time
saver if it works on the deck (generic "Trex"--more porous, rougher
texture than real Trex). If it works on concrete that will definitely
beat using a "rub brick", which I used the first and only time. My
neighbor even came out of her house to see what I was doing outside of
her open window (a "screeching chalk"-like sound was generated). She
didn't say so, but I could tell she wanted me to stop; my thought was
that she could close her window.
Today, is a non-painting day due to weather, and another responsibility
I need to prepare for. It wouldn't be any fun to "go to Disneyland"
everyday, anyway. Balance. : )
I hope and trust others are gaining something from this thread too!
Thanks!
Bill
[email protected] wrote:
>
> ... I go half way down on one load, then go over it ONE time to smooth out the paint. Load the brush once more and I have the groove in 4 or so strokes with two brush loads.
I did better on day 2 than day 1, but I see I'm still "overdoing" it.
If I'm not careful, I'm going to wear out my brushes! ; )
Thank you for sharing so many details about how you use different roller
covers and how to clean them. Technically, you helped me to get through
this job right (even after just 1 coat of paint, there is not a trace of
anything at all bleeding through!) , and your comaraderie and moral
support are very much appreciated. Obviously, I'm not done, but I can
see the light at the end of the tunnel! I really like learning new
skills and techniques. There is a lot of "crap" written about painting
on the internet, and, especially now, I can really see it for what it
is. Evidently, lots of people who have used a brush thinks they are
qualified to give advice on how to paint! I appreciate your sharing
your expertise here! I will resume my work on the shed on Thursday,
weather permitting.
> (Re: Jomax and cleaning around house) You could come back here, start a new thread and post the results of your experimentation. That and the driveway sweeper nozzle are /great/ inexpensive prep and cleaning tools.
>
I'll do that. I'll take some pictures first too. If Jomax works on the
concrete, the results will be dramatic. I missed my chance to take one
of the shed.
Bill
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/29/2017 12:07 PM, Markem wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 01:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> You could come back here, start a new thread and post the results of
>>> your e=
>>> xperimentation. That and the driveway sweeper nozzle are /great/
>>> inexpensi=
>>> ve prep and cleaning tools.
>>
>> Best painting tool I bought was a spinner for brushes and roller
>> covers, it has not put a bit of paint any where, but again BEST
>> painting tool EVER.
>>
>
>
> Best painting tool I had is a grandson that wanted to make a few
> bucks. He works cheap and does a decent job.
You could print out this thread, and teach him how to work fast! : )
[email protected] wrote:
> It took me 4 hours to prime the front, and then I stopped to eat.
Okay, it took me almost exactly 4 hours to paint all 4 sides today, not
including set up and clean up. The end is in sight (though I bought some
stuff to staple along the bottom, once I'm finished painting). Just 2
sides left. (3*4=12 sides).
I did my brush and roller cleaning outside this time, sitting in a chair
(instead of over the sink). The recommended dish washing soap
(Palmolive) really made the roller nap feel nice. I slung the water out
with an overhand throwing motion, as suggested, and I don't know how the
roller cover liked it, but it felt really great on my back and shoulder
(after doing that painting)! A little unexpected surprise. ; ) After
being washed the roller cover looks much better than it's predecessor.
I did a side-by-side comparison.
I am really thankful for the suggestions and camaraderie I found here!
I learned alot, my project is all the better for it, and I'm happier
than I was! : )
Bill
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/27/2017 4:36 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> On the few things I've painted, I find the second coat develops the
>> color
>> better and fills in the tiny voids and imperfections in the first coat.
>> This is dependent on the paint and techniques, of course.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> Even so called "one coat" paint looks better with two.
>
> As for the back, the only reason to paint would be weather protection
> if in a place that would be affected.
You are both right, of course. The appearance of my single application
of "one coat paint" applied over a fresh primer coat improved with the
second coat. Though it *looked* acceptable by most standards (for
instance, to my wife) after just one coat. Hopefully, the added
durability will make up for the additional time and expense. My
neighbor recently built a new shed about 6 feet away from mine which he
coated with primer and one coat of paint. Although they are dramatically
different colors, if you stop to look close, you can tell that, at least
visually, the paint covers mine better! :-P