Trouble with Senco finish nailer.

Digger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/15/2013 4:49 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Digger wrote:
>>
>>> Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
>>> own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and
>>> contributions to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning
>>> little tidbits of useful information.
>>>
>>> Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
>>> once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)
>>>
>>> I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
>>> 3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
>>> ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
>>> In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank
>>> volume and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand
>>> ops.
>>>
>>> However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
>>> than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
>>> seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
>>> that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for
>>> any nail shooter I have used either.
>>>
> <snip>
>>
>> I do have a good sized compressor for the heavy weight work in my garage,
>> but I also have a couple of portables for off-site stuff. One of them was a
>> gift from my son - it is a tiny little 2 gallon unit. He bought it for $39
>> at Lowes.
>>
>> http://www.lowes.com/pd_409360-30449-0100261_0__
>>
>> I took this little thing out to the garage and gave it a test the day I got
>> it. Hooked up a 25' coil of 1/4" line and my nail gun. I drove 25 16gauge
>> nails into a 2x4 before it started to leave them proud. That's with a
>> compressor that only builds 100 psi. But... holy cow is it quiet. You can
>> stand right next to it and talk in a normal tone of voice.
>>
>> Make no mistake - 1/4" line is perfectly acceptable for nail guns. Look
>> around when you're out and about, and you'll see it in use all over the
>> place. Read what people here are saying they use - it works.
>>
>> From what you posted, I'd suspect you have way too much hard line installed.
>> You said 3/4" right? You would not have needed anything more than 1/2".
>> That's a lot of difference in terms of the volume of air you have to fill
>> up. It's not just 50% more.
>>
>> In your case, I believe you when you say you can't drive nails with 1/4"
>> line, but I'd also expect you'd have the same problem with 3/8" or 1/2"
>> line. Either something is wrong with your gun, or maybe your problem is
>> related to the oversized hard line you installed. Still - 1/4" should be
>> throttling that back once you get it up to pressure. I'm going with a
>> problem with your gun.
>>
>
> I can drive them, but not flush after a few quick pulls, depending upon
> material, gun, nail and length of run. However, the difference here
> between 3/8 and 1/4 is dramatic, and especially with paint guns and high
> volume air tools.
>
> I also have a small portable 6gl pancake (PC) that I absolutely love for
> travel & indoor use ...not so quiet though. :-)
>
> I'll post a pic er two of the air line setup in next day er so, 1,000
> words et al, but my own thinking says not enough constant pressure for
> those runs ...max the tank at 150, regulate to 100 and it would likely
> be fine. Sorta the same relationship that amperage has with voltage.
> But, in the end you may turn out to be 100% correct and my Hausfields
> (much bigger guns) are indeed faulty.
>
> Anyhow, this horse has been ridden enough and ready for the barn so, I
> say the conversation has been interesting and will likely lead to better
> days for us both...
>
> Thanks,


As I mentioned to Mike, hard runs with hard 90 degree turns will restrict
air flow more than a gradual smooth bend in a hose. Before suspecting the
gun I would bypass the pipe, go directly from the compressor to the gun via
a long 1/4" hose. If you have several hard bends in your setup you could
be dramatically restricting flow.

On 2/14/2013 9:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>
> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun? Would lubricating the nails help.
> BTW, the nail heads are proud by about 1/32".
>
> All advise appreciated.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>


I set my pressure to 120 and always have on my 20+year old Senco
finisher. Depending on the age of the gun, if older like mine, it may
be hard to find a better one. If increased pressure does not fix it,
might be time for an OH.

On Feb 14, 9:59=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'd crank that puppy up to at least 100psi, if not 110 and see how that
> works.
>
> Remember, if you start at 90, and depending upon how you have your
> compressor to kick in, you are probably shooting at a lower pressure
> than your setting after the first few shots.

Bingo. Betcha that's it. Find out what max pressure is on the gun
and put it there. Senco isn't known for its driving power anyway, so
it needs everything it can get. The recommended pressure on the gun
is probably 100 psi, but it is important to remember you didn't
specify anything other than "a gun".

So are you using a brad nailer? A 16 ga nailer (a favorite of mine),
possibly 15 ga angle nailer? All work well for baseboards and most
other trims.

Better questions will give you better results when you ask.

I had some older guns that had the problem you described and I found
that problem when switched to a smaller compressor to use for trim.
So that the compressor would not run as frequently, they set the
pressure regulator at 85 lbs before it would kick on. So my fix was
that I would shoot about 5 times, then would disconnect the coupling
at the gun just enough to bleed enough air to get the compressor to
kick. Shoot 5 more times, then repeat. The guns finally wore out and
were replaced. Some newer regulators have a set screw on them and you
adjust the "kick on" pressure up or down as you like.

If your gun is newer, it will have depth control, so check it as Leon
says. 1/32" isn't much, so you might be able to adjust that out.

Robert

On 2/14/2013 11:54 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 10:47 AM, Digger wrote:
>> On 2/14/2013 10:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>>> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards
>>> etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine
>>> nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails
>>> at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>>>
>>> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun?
>>> Would lubricating the nails help. BTW, the nail heads are proud by
>>> about 1/32".
>>>
>>> All advise appreciated.
>>>
>>> Ivan Vegvary
>>>
>>
>> In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4" is
>> often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some brands
>> of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least 3/8" line if
>> the run is more than a few feet.
>>
>
>
> What brand nailer do you need this with? I have used 150', 1/4" with a
> Senco finish nailer and a Bostitch framer with no problems. These
> things don't use much air. You may not be able to shoot as fast on this
> long run but 2 shots per second is fast enough for me when fence building.
>

Not trying to start a war here folks, just offered a simple thought and
suggestion.

I have 3 different brands of guns onhand and a compressor limited to max
125lbs. I've not used Senco but understand it is an industry standard
brand and have no idea what is recommended by the OEM.

I've had good luck with Dewalts and Bostitch using 1/4", even at 85-90,
but not so my very old Campbell Hausfields when fed from 1/4" line,
unless kept to short runs. Soft 3/4" pine is one thing, MDF is another
and 2" treated is another and Oak and... Even the style of nail being
shot (coated vs uncoated, etc) can have an effect upon depth of
penetration at a given combination of adjustments.

I have also found 1/4" line totally inadequate for tasks such as paint
guns, air hammers, impact wrenches, sanders, metal saws and files. And
so, regardless of anyone's law of physics, many supply issues of my own
experience were permenantely solved with 3/8" line and a larger volume tank.

The original op did not specify air source being used nor much else
except MDF, 2" nails and a Senco gun @ 90lbs. Others had already offered
good advice and I simply offered a suggestion, not a declaration.


--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Digger wrote:
>
>> Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
>> own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and
>> contributions to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning
>> little tidbits of useful information.
>>
>> Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
>> once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)
>>
>> I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
>> 3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
>> ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
>> In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank
>> volume and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand
>> ops.
>>
>> However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
>> than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
>> seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
>> that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for
>> any nail shooter I have used either.
>>
>> Granted though, if I stuck a vertical 60gl iron horse 240v
>> double-head, pushing 150lbs to a regulated 100lb main, I could solve
>> those problems and maybe get back to using 1/4" line as you have.
>>
>> Unfortunately though, I simply do not have the room for a high
>> capacity rig nor can I justify the expense and wiring change enough
>> to support infrequent usage.
>>
>> Quite a few of us here are not professionals, and don't do a lot of
>> this stuff for a living. The kinds of tools and equipment many of you
>> here use are way out of the normal range of weekend garage warriors
>> like myself....Festool? R U kidding me? :-)
>>
>
> I do have a good sized compressor for the heavy weight work in my garage,
> but I also have a couple of portables for off-site stuff. One of them was a
> gift from my son - it is a tiny little 2 gallon unit. He bought it for $39
> at Lowes.
>
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_409360-30449-0100261_0__
>
> I took this little thing out to the garage and gave it a test the day I got
> it. Hooked up a 25' coil of 1/4" line and my nail gun. I drove 25 16gauge
> nails into a 2x4 before it started to leave them proud. That's with a
> compressor that only builds 100 psi. But... holy cow is it quiet. You can
> stand right next to it and talk in a normal tone of voice.
>
> Make no mistake - 1/4" line is perfectly acceptable for nail guns. Look
> around when you're out and about, and you'll see it in use all over the
> place. Read what people here are saying they use - it works.
>
> From what you posted, I'd suspect you have way too much hard line installed.
> You said 3/4" right? You would not have needed anything more than 1/2".
> That's a lot of difference in terms of the volume of air you have to fill
> up. It's not just 50% more.

Hard lines with hard 90 degree turns will slow flow more so than a hose
that only has gradual bends.

On 2/15/2013 4:49 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Digger wrote:
>
>> Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
>> own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and
>> contributions to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning
>> little tidbits of useful information.
>>
>> Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
>> once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)
>>
>> I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
>> 3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
>> ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
>> In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank
>> volume and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand
>> ops.
>>
>> However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
>> than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
>> seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
>> that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for
>> any nail shooter I have used either.
>>
<snip>
>
> I do have a good sized compressor for the heavy weight work in my garage,
> but I also have a couple of portables for off-site stuff. One of them was a
> gift from my son - it is a tiny little 2 gallon unit. He bought it for $39
> at Lowes.
>
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_409360-30449-0100261_0__
>
> I took this little thing out to the garage and gave it a test the day I got
> it. Hooked up a 25' coil of 1/4" line and my nail gun. I drove 25 16gauge
> nails into a 2x4 before it started to leave them proud. That's with a
> compressor that only builds 100 psi. But... holy cow is it quiet. You can
> stand right next to it and talk in a normal tone of voice.
>
> Make no mistake - 1/4" line is perfectly acceptable for nail guns. Look
> around when you're out and about, and you'll see it in use all over the
> place. Read what people here are saying they use - it works.
>
> From what you posted, I'd suspect you have way too much hard line installed.
> You said 3/4" right? You would not have needed anything more than 1/2".
> That's a lot of difference in terms of the volume of air you have to fill
> up. It's not just 50% more.
>
> In your case, I believe you when you say you can't drive nails with 1/4"
> line, but I'd also expect you'd have the same problem with 3/8" or 1/2"
> line. Either something is wrong with your gun, or maybe your problem is
> related to the oversized hard line you installed. Still - 1/4" should be
> throttling that back once you get it up to pressure. I'm going with a
> problem with your gun.
>

I can drive them, but not flush after a few quick pulls, depending upon
material, gun, nail and length of run. However, the difference here
between 3/8 and 1/4 is dramatic, and especially with paint guns and high
volume air tools.

I also have a small portable 6gl pancake (PC) that I absolutely love for
travel & indoor use ...not so quiet though. :-)

I'll post a pic er two of the air line setup in next day er so, 1,000
words et al, but my own thinking says not enough constant pressure for
those runs ...max the tank at 150, regulate to 100 and it would likely
be fine. Sorta the same relationship that amperage has with voltage.
But, in the end you may turn out to be 100% correct and my Hausfields
(much bigger guns) are indeed faulty.

Anyhow, this horse has been ridden enough and ready for the barn so, I
say the conversation has been interesting and will likely lead to better
days for us both...

Thanks,

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/14/2013 9:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards etc.)
>> Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine nails sets
>> below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails at odd angles,
>> even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>>
>> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun? Would
>> lubricating the nails help.
>> BTW, the nail heads are proud by about 1/32".
>>
>> All advise appreciated.
>
> I'd crank that puppy up to at least 100psi, if not 110 and see how that
> works.
>
> Remember, if you start at 90, and depending upon how you have your
> compressor to kick in, you are probably shooting at a lower pressure than
> your setting after the first few shots.
>
Do you have your gun "depth setting" adjusted to your material, it may have
been moved or knocked out of adjustment and is now set too shallow. All my
guns can be adjusted to bury the nail if I crank them to maximum depth.

On 2/15/2013 3:06 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "chaniarts" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> On 2/14/2013 11:12 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>> "Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>>> To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick
>>> release fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line.
>>> We'd regulate the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the
>>> regulator on the compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working
>>> pressure in the context of the length and diameter of the hose. Once set
>>> the line gauge could be removed to lighten the tool weight. We had a
>>> regulator with a gauge for the spray gun as that often needed tinkering.
>
>> i always thought the pressure at one end of the hose has to be the same at
>> the other end of the hose, given a static condition. is that not correct?
>
> Static I would agree. In use what we found though was that a small line
> cannot recover fast enough so the working pressure drops. This is due to
> inadequate volume and friction in the line. Thus with a gauge at the tool
> end of a long run you can watch what happens to the pressure while the tool
> is working and then set the pressure higher at the compressor end to help
> keep the volume and pressure up at the tool end. Larger air lines can help
> with the volume and friction issues over long runs...
>
> Air volume, pressure, friction, air turbulence in the lines, compressor
> capacity, and other factors are at play and I'm sure someone here can
> explain this in fluid dynamic terms. To us layman woodworkers I'd think it's
> not unlike the topics of undersized piping in a dust collection system, or
> comparing a dust collector to a vacuum cleaner, that have been discussed
> here what seems like a few hundred times over the past 20 years. ;~)
>
> John
>

+ 1

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On 2/15/2013 9:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Digger wrote:
>
>>
>> I can drive them, but not flush after a few quick pulls, depending
<snip>
>>
>
> I think I said earlier, that certain tools will indeed show a difference. I
> think I listed things like paint guns. I know my guns won't work well on a
> 1/4" hose. I've never had anything less than 3/8", and generally 1/2" for
> those tools. Wanna see a tool eat up your air supply - hook up a DA.
>
>> I also have a small portable 6gl pancake (PC) that I absolutely love
>> for travel & indoor use ...not so quiet though. :-)
>
> My 15 gallon unit is not quiet either. That's what made me so surprised
> when we plugged in this little guy. Whisper quiet. Just not a lot of air
> though.
>
>>
>> I'll post a pic er two of the air line setup in next day er so, 1,000
>> words et al, but my own thinking says not enough constant pressure for
>> those runs ...max the tank at 150, regulate to 100 and it would likely
>> be fine. Sorta the same relationship that amperage has with voltage.
>> But, in the end you may turn out to be 100% correct and my Hausfields
>> (much bigger guns) are indeed faulty.
>>
<snipped>
>
> Well - let us know if you do discover anything down the road - faulty tools,
> or whatever.
>

Will do Mike,

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On 2/15/2013 10:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 1:06 PM, Digger wrote:
>> On 2/14/2013 11:54 AM, Leon wrote:

>>>
>>> What brand nailer do you need this with? I have used 150', 1/4" with a
>>> Senco finish nailer and a Bostitch framer with no problems. These
>>> things don't use much air. You may not be able to shoot as fast on this
>>> long run but 2 shots per second is fast enough for me when fence building.
>>>
>>
>> Not trying to start a war here folks, just offered a simple thought and
>> suggestion.
>>
>> I have 3 different brands of guns onhand and a compressor limited to max
>> 125lbs. I've not used Senco but understand it is an industry standard
>> brand and have no idea what is recommended by the OEM.
>>
>> I've had good luck with Dewalts and Bostitch using 1/4", even at 85-90,
>> but not so my very old Campbell Hausfields when fed from 1/4" line,
>> unless kept to short runs. Soft 3/4" pine is one thing, MDF is another
>> and 2" treated is another and Oak and... Even the style of nail being
>> shot (coated vs uncoated, etc) can have an effect upon depth of
>> penetration at a given combination of adjustments.
>>
>> I have also found 1/4" line totally inadequate for tasks such as paint
>> guns, air hammers, impact wrenches, sanders, metal saws and files. And
>> so, regardless of anyone's law of physics, many supply issues of my own
>> experience were permenantely solved with 3/8" line and a larger volume tank.
>>
>> The original op did not specify air source being used nor much else
>> except MDF, 2" nails and a Senco gun @ 90lbs. Others had already offered
>> good advice and I simply offered a suggestion, not a declaration.
>>
>>
> No war intended. :~) I was indeed curious what gun would require that
> large of a hose. I have been on and worked on a bunch of job sites with
> nailers working on 1/4" hose.
>
> From what I understand Senco invented the nail gun. It apparently is
> not the gun of choice these days. My Senco nailer was apparently the
> gun of choice in 1989 when I bought it.
>
> FWIW I have used that nail gun with a portable 7 gal air tank and
> 25',1/4" hose to shoot 10~15 times in quarter round in a house with no
> electricity. Strange job. I made sure the hose was full before going
> to the job.
>
> Continuous use tools like those you mentioned above do need less
> restriction for longer runs to operate more efficiently but if the hose
> is 50' or shorter the 1/4" still worked fine in the automotive business
> that I was in for 20+ years. The 1/4" hose was mainly used for air
> drills, impact wrenches, air ratchets, zip guns, and in the body shop
> for painting and sanding. Now the Coats tire machine did have a 3/8"
> supply line as the bead expander would release enough air to inflate a a
> tire in a split second. That machine however did have it's own air
> reservoir, not even the 3/8" supply could keep it filled for more than
> several seconds if the bead expander was in continuous use on the
> difficult tires.
>

Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and contributions
to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning little tidbits
of useful information.

Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)

I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank volume
and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand ops.

However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for any
nail shooter I have used either.

Granted though, if I stuck a vertical 60gl iron horse 240v double-head,
pushing 150lbs to a regulated 100lb main, I could solve those problems
and maybe get back to using 1/4" line as you have.

Unfortunately though, I simply do not have the room for a high capacity
rig nor can I justify the expense and wiring change enough to support
infrequent usage.

Quite a few of us here are not professionals, and don't do a lot of this
stuff for a living. The kinds of tools and equipment many of you here
use are way out of the normal range of weekend garage warriors like
myself....Festool? R U kidding me? :-)

I am not totally inexperienced, and do myself have a 12x36ft fully
equipped woodshop, minus a turning setup, that I have likely invested
about $30,000 into, for equipment, over last 4yrs, but even this is
rather atypical for an average DIY'er and still not on par with a
proshop. Literally every tool in my shop is mobile, out of necessity! :-)

Keep those tidbits coming cuz I would be lost without them...


--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On 2/14/2013 9:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>
> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun? Would lubricating the nails help.
> BTW, the nail heads are proud by about 1/32".
>
> All advise appreciated.

I'd crank that puppy up to at least 100psi, if not 110 and see how that
works.

Remember, if you start at 90, and depending upon how you have your
compressor to kick in, you are probably shooting at a lower pressure
than your setting after the first few shots.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/16/2013 11:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/16/2013 9:09 AM, Leon wrote:
>> As I mentioned to Mike, hard runs with hard 90 degree turns will
>> restrict
>> air flow more than a gradual smooth bend in a hose. Before suspecting
>> the
>> gun I would bypass the pipe, go directly from the compressor to the
>> gun via
>> a long 1/4" hose. If you have several hard bends in your setup you could
>> be dramatically restricting flow.
>
> Might be like that Rockler "non-kink" air hose I bought ... it only
> kinks when in use (under pressure). :(
>


LOL, I have a garden hose that was suppose to be non kink. I was told
by the HW store that if you kink it it will continue to kink. Hummmmm

On 2/16/2013 2:33 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/16/2013 2:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hard lines with hard 90 degree turns will slow flow more so than a
>>> hose that only has gradual bends.
>>
>> That is very true, but with a sufficient compressor, it will have enough
>> capacity to handle that....
>
> No, if there's too much pressure drop along the way, it doesn't matter
> how big the compressor itself is (unless you can raise it's pressure
> enough to compensate but until go to really large the upper tank limits
> are generally roughly the same).
>
> --
That is what I am thinking, Pressure would have to go up so that it
never dropped past acceptable after all of the restrictions.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>Digger wrote:

>
> >In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4"
> >is often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some
> >brands of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least
> >3/8" line if the run is more than a few feet.

>That's always true of high volume tools like DA's and some paint guns, but
>I've never heard that to be true of an air nailer. They're a one shot
>tool. I'd be more suspicious of either too low of a pressure setting, or
>the thing crapping out as the tank is approaching cut in pressure level.
>Maybe people have had problems with air nailers and small diameter hoses
>(especially if they are firing in rapid succession), but intuitively, that
>would surprise me. Other things have surprised me in the past...

Back when I was regularly using air tools (paint guns, sanders, grinders,
impact wrenches, nailers, etc.) we ran off an Ingersoll - Rand industrial
compressor that had a large tank and fast recovery rate. The compressor's
working capacity was never an issue. What was happening at the other end of
the hose was a different story. Like with dust collection, long runs with
small diameters can lead to huge drops in working pressure at the tool
end...

To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick release
fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line. We'd regulate
the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the regulator on the
compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working pressure in the context
of the length and diameter of the hose. Once set the line gauge could be
removed to lighten the tool weight. We had a regulator with a gauge for the
spray gun as that often needed tinkering.

To help keep the volume up we used high pressure garden hoses for most of
the run and then a 3/8" air hose closer to the tool. This was cost effective
compared to buying large air hoses. We did this as the compressor was at a
fixed location due to it's size and 220V electric power requirement but we
might be working outside 200+ feet from the garage.

John

On 2/14/2013 10:47 AM, Digger wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 10:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards
>> etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine
>> nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails
>> at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>>
>> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun?
>> Would lubricating the nails help. BTW, the nail heads are proud by
>> about 1/32".
>>
>> All advise appreciated.
>>
>> Ivan Vegvary
>>
>
> In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4" is
> often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some brands
> of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least 3/8" line if
> the run is more than a few feet.
>


What brand nailer do you need this with? I have used 150', 1/4" with a
Senco finish nailer and a Bostitch framer with no problems. These
things don't use much air. You may not be able to shoot as fast on this
long run but 2 shots per second is fast enough for me when fence building.

On 2/14/2013 10:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards
> etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine
> nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails
> at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>
> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun?
> Would lubricating the nails help. BTW, the nail heads are proud by
> about 1/32".
>
> All advise appreciated.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>

In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4" is
often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some brands
of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least 3/8" line if
the run is more than a few feet.

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On Feb 14, 10:47=A0am, Digger <[email protected]> wrote:

> In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4" is
> often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some brands
> of air tools to function properly.

Incorrect. While your compressor may not keep up, the air lines have
almost nothing to do with the supply to the gun. We shoot high volume
roofing nailers all day long with 1/4" hose and it works fine. Same
with our framing guns which depending on their task at the time, may
be running non stop.

Not convinced? No problem. Read Bernoilli's Principle (and examples
of the practical application of it) about the equalization of pressure
and you will find this scientifically proven.

Robert

On 2/15/2013 12:14 PM, Digger wrote:
> On 2/15/2013 10:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/14/2013 1:06 PM, Digger wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2013 11:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> What brand nailer do you need this with? I have used 150', 1/4" with a
>>>> Senco finish nailer and a Bostitch framer with no problems. These
>>>> things don't use much air. You may not be able to shoot as fast on this
>>>> long run but 2 shots per second is fast enough for me when fence building.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not trying to start a war here folks, just offered a simple thought and
>>> suggestion.
>>>
>>> I have 3 different brands of guns onhand and a compressor limited to max
>>> 125lbs. I've not used Senco but understand it is an industry standard
>>> brand and have no idea what is recommended by the OEM.
>>>
>>> I've had good luck with Dewalts and Bostitch using 1/4", even at 85-90,
>>> but not so my very old Campbell Hausfields when fed from 1/4" line,
>>> unless kept to short runs. Soft 3/4" pine is one thing, MDF is another
>>> and 2" treated is another and Oak and... Even the style of nail being
>>> shot (coated vs uncoated, etc) can have an effect upon depth of
>>> penetration at a given combination of adjustments.
>>>
>>> I have also found 1/4" line totally inadequate for tasks such as paint
>>> guns, air hammers, impact wrenches, sanders, metal saws and files. And
>>> so, regardless of anyone's law of physics, many supply issues of my own
>>> experience were permenantely solved with 3/8" line and a larger volume tank.
>>>
>>> The original op did not specify air source being used nor much else
>>> except MDF, 2" nails and a Senco gun @ 90lbs. Others had already offered
>>> good advice and I simply offered a suggestion, not a declaration.
>>>
>>>
>> No war intended. :~) I was indeed curious what gun would require that
>> large of a hose. I have been on and worked on a bunch of job sites with
>> nailers working on 1/4" hose.
>>
>> From what I understand Senco invented the nail gun. It apparently is
>> not the gun of choice these days. My Senco nailer was apparently the
>> gun of choice in 1989 when I bought it.
>>
>> FWIW I have used that nail gun with a portable 7 gal air tank and
>> 25',1/4" hose to shoot 10~15 times in quarter round in a house with no
>> electricity. Strange job. I made sure the hose was full before going
>> to the job.
>>
>> Continuous use tools like those you mentioned above do need less
>> restriction for longer runs to operate more efficiently but if the hose
>> is 50' or shorter the 1/4" still worked fine in the automotive business
>> that I was in for 20+ years. The 1/4" hose was mainly used for air
>> drills, impact wrenches, air ratchets, zip guns, and in the body shop
>> for painting and sanding. Now the Coats tire machine did have a 3/8"
>> supply line as the bead expander would release enough air to inflate a a
>> tire in a split second. That machine however did have it's own air
>> reservoir, not even the 3/8" supply could keep it filled for more than
>> several seconds if the bead expander was in continuous use on the
>> difficult tires.
>>
>
> Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
> own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and contributions
> to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning little tidbits
> of useful information.
>
> Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
> once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)
>
> I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
> 3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
> ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
> In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank volume
> and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand ops.

In my shop I am using a 20~25gal tank at something like 125 lbs max
about like your set up except a single 50', 1/4" hose for normal daily
use. I have an extra 100', 1/4" hose for fencing jobs, and and
emergency 20' 1/4: hose for the unexpected. But again, this for running
nail guns which only use air for a split second at a time. My air
operated abrasive wheel cut off tool gives my compressor a run for its
money but it simply can not keep up after 5~10 seconds. Same goes for
my other continuous use tools.

>
> However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
> than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
> seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
> that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for any
> nail shooter I have used either.

Every high volume tool is different. In my old automotive days we had
6, 120gal + compressors running continuously. The lines coming from the
compressors were 2" diameter, that was required for the vehicle lifts,
that taped off to 1" lines that went all over the dealership to supply
the individual bays in the main shop and body shop. The individual
stalls T'd off to hose reels with 50' 1/4" hose and to manifolds on the
walls over the work benches. Many of the mechanics used the 1/4"
stretch coil hoses for their air ratchets straight from the manifolds at
the work bench, 10~15 feet. Impact wrenches ran off of the hose reels.

I still have the mechanic air tools and they run fine off of the 1/4"
hose at home but the compressor can't keep up after 3~4 lug nuts. ;~(

I let the dealership or tire store rotate the tires now. ;~)





>
> Granted though, if I stuck a vertical 60gl iron horse 240v double-head,
> pushing 150lbs to a regulated 100lb main, I could solve those problems
> and maybe get back to using 1/4" line as you have.
>
> Unfortunately though, I simply do not have the room for a high capacity
> rig nor can I justify the expense and wiring change enough to support
> infrequent usage.
>
> Quite a few of us here are not professionals, and don't do a lot of this
> stuff for a living. The kinds of tools and equipment many of you here
> use are way out of the normal range of weekend garage warriors like
> myself....Festool? R U kidding me? :-)
>
> I am not totally inexperienced, and do myself have a 12x36ft fully
> equipped woodshop, minus a turning setup, that I have likely invested
> about $30,000 into, for equipment, over last 4yrs, but even this is
> rather atypical for an average DIY'er and still not on par with a
> proshop. Literally every tool in my shop is mobile, out of necessity! :-)
>
> Keep those tidbits coming cuz I would be lost without them...
>
>

"chaniarts" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>On 2/14/2013 11:12 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> >"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>

> >To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick
>> release fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line.
>> We'd regulate the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the
>> regulator on the compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working
>> pressure in the context of the length and diameter of the hose. Once set
> >the line gauge could be removed to lighten the tool weight. We had a
>> regulator with a gauge for the spray gun as that often needed tinkering.

>i always thought the pressure at one end of the hose has to be the same at
>the other end of the hose, given a static condition. is that not correct?

Static I would agree. In use what we found though was that a small line
cannot recover fast enough so the working pressure drops. This is due to
inadequate volume and friction in the line. Thus with a gauge at the tool
end of a long run you can watch what happens to the pressure while the tool
is working and then set the pressure higher at the compressor end to help
keep the volume and pressure up at the tool end. Larger air lines can help
with the volume and friction issues over long runs...

Air volume, pressure, friction, air turbulence in the lines, compressor
capacity, and other factors are at play and I'm sure someone here can
explain this in fluid dynamic terms. To us layman woodworkers I'd think it's
not unlike the topics of undersized piping in a dust collection system, or
comparing a dust collector to a vacuum cleaner, that have been discussed
here what seems like a few hundred times over the past 20 years. ;~)

John

Digger wrote:

>
> In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4"
> is often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some
> brands of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least
> 3/8" line if the run is more than a few feet.

That's always true of high volume tools like DA's and some paint guns, but
I've never heard that to be true of an air nailer. They're a one shot tool.
I'd be more suspicious of either too low of a pressure setting, or the thing
crapping out as the tank is approaching cut in pressure level. Maybe people
have had problems with air nailers and small diameter hoses (especially if
they are firing in rapid succession), but intuitively, that would surprise
me. Other things have surprised me in the past...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

John Grossbohlin wrote:

>
> Back when I was regularly using air tools (paint guns, sanders,
> grinders, impact wrenches, nailers, etc.) we ran off an Ingersoll -
> Rand industrial compressor that had a large tank and fast recovery
> rate. The compressor's working capacity was never an issue. What was
> happening at the other end of the hose was a different story. Like
> with dust collection, long runs with small diameters can lead to huge
> drops in working pressure at the tool end...
>
> To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick
> release fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line.
> We'd regulate the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the
> regulator on the compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working
> pressure in the context of the length and diameter of the hose. Once
> set the line gauge could be removed to lighten the tool weight. We
> had a regulator with a gauge for the spray gun as that often needed
> tinkering.

You are correct - long runs do result in friction loss. I don't even think
about that because I keep regulators attached to most of my air tools - most
certainly those that are pressure sensitive. All of my paint guns, and some
others. My DA's, and my air nailer don't have them, nor do my air grinders
and some other tools, but those don't need that kind of attention to
pressure. My air nailer is always running off of a known length of 3/8"
hose to a coil of 1/4", or if close enough, simply off of the 1/4" directly
to the compressor(s). So - pressure drops over long runs never becomes an
issue for me, and I forget to think about that in conversations like this.
Good catch John.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/14/2013 11:12 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> Digger wrote:
>
>>
>> >In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4"
>> >is often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some
>> >brands of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least
>> >3/8" line if the run is more than a few feet.
>
>> That's always true of high volume tools like DA's and some paint guns,
>> but I've never heard that to be true of an air nailer. They're a one
>> shot tool. I'd be more suspicious of either too low of a pressure
>> setting, or the thing crapping out as the tank is approaching cut in
>> pressure level. Maybe people have had problems with air nailers and
>> small diameter hoses (especially if they are firing in rapid
>> succession), but intuitively, that would surprise me. Other things
>> have surprised me in the past...
>
> Back when I was regularly using air tools (paint guns, sanders,
> grinders, impact wrenches, nailers, etc.) we ran off an Ingersoll - Rand
> industrial compressor that had a large tank and fast recovery rate. The
> compressor's working capacity was never an issue. What was happening at
> the other end of the hose was a different story. Like with dust
> collection, long runs with small diameters can lead to huge drops in
> working pressure at the tool end...
>
> To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick
> release fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line.
> We'd regulate the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the
> regulator on the compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working
> pressure in the context of the length and diameter of the hose. Once set
> the line gauge could be removed to lighten the tool weight. We had a
> regulator with a gauge for the spray gun as that often needed tinkering.

i always thought the pressure at one end of the hose has to be the same
at the other end of the hose, given a static condition. is that not correct?

> To help keep the volume up we used high pressure garden hoses for most
> of the run and then a 3/8" air hose closer to the tool. This was cost
> effective compared to buying large air hoses. We did this as the
> compressor was at a fixed location due to it's size and 220V electric
> power requirement but we might be working outside 200+ feet from the
> garage.
>
> John
>
>
>
>

Digger wrote:

> Leon, apparently your experience has been vastly different than my
> own...I do also hold great respect for your knowledge and
> contributions to the forums here and spend considerable time gleaning
> little tidbits of useful information.
>
> Although having been a lurker for many years, rarely a contributer,
> once-in-a-while I do poke my head up and take my chances... :-)
>
> I run a 20gal tank w/ single head @ 125lbs max feeding about 150' of
> 3/4" buried & overhead lines @ 100lbs. The lines are tapped with above
> ground connectors & shutoffs at various locations around the property.
> In theory at least, the 3/4 lines should multiply available tank
> volume and serve as medium buffer for sustained output in high demand
> ops.
>
> However, I cannot push enough air through through a 1/4" line at more
> than 25' to sustain a typical non HVLP paint gun for more than a few
> seconds, much less most other high volume air tools. But I would agree
> that in most apps, even 50ft of 1/4" line should not be an issue for
> any nail shooter I have used either.
>
> Granted though, if I stuck a vertical 60gl iron horse 240v
> double-head, pushing 150lbs to a regulated 100lb main, I could solve
> those problems and maybe get back to using 1/4" line as you have.
>
> Unfortunately though, I simply do not have the room for a high
> capacity rig nor can I justify the expense and wiring change enough
> to support infrequent usage.
>
> Quite a few of us here are not professionals, and don't do a lot of
> this stuff for a living. The kinds of tools and equipment many of you
> here use are way out of the normal range of weekend garage warriors
> like myself....Festool? R U kidding me? :-)
>

I do have a good sized compressor for the heavy weight work in my garage,
but I also have a couple of portables for off-site stuff. One of them was a
gift from my son - it is a tiny little 2 gallon unit. He bought it for $39
at Lowes.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_409360-30449-0100261_0__

I took this little thing out to the garage and gave it a test the day I got
it. Hooked up a 25' coil of 1/4" line and my nail gun. I drove 25 16gauge
nails into a 2x4 before it started to leave them proud. That's with a
compressor that only builds 100 psi. But... holy cow is it quiet. You can
stand right next to it and talk in a normal tone of voice.

Make no mistake - 1/4" line is perfectly acceptable for nail guns. Look
around when you're out and about, and you'll see it in use all over the
place. Read what people here are saying they use - it works.

From what you posted, I'd suspect you have way too much hard line installed.
You said 3/4" right? You would not have needed anything more than 1/2".
That's a lot of difference in terms of the volume of air you have to fill
up. It's not just 50% more.

In your case, I believe you when you say you can't drive nails with 1/4"
line, but I'd also expect you'd have the same problem with 3/8" or 1/2"
line. Either something is wrong with your gun, or maybe your problem is
related to the oversized hard line you installed. Still - 1/4" should be
throttling that back once you get it up to pressure. I'm going with a
problem with your gun.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Digger wrote:

>
> I can drive them, but not flush after a few quick pulls, depending
> upon material, gun, nail and length of run. However, the difference
> here between 3/8 and 1/4 is dramatic, and especially with paint guns
> and high volume air tools.
>

I think I said earlier, that certain tools will indeed show a difference. I
think I listed things like paint guns. I know my guns won't work well on a
1/4" hose. I've never had anything less than 3/8", and generally 1/2" for
those tools. Wanna see a tool eat up your air supply - hook up a DA.

> I also have a small portable 6gl pancake (PC) that I absolutely love
> for travel & indoor use ...not so quiet though. :-)

My 15 gallon unit is not quiet either. That's what made me so surprised
when we plugged in this little guy. Whisper quiet. Just not a lot of air
though.

>
> I'll post a pic er two of the air line setup in next day er so, 1,000
> words et al, but my own thinking says not enough constant pressure for
> those runs ...max the tank at 150, regulate to 100 and it would likely
> be fine. Sorta the same relationship that amperage has with voltage.
> But, in the end you may turn out to be 100% correct and my Hausfields
> (much bigger guns) are indeed faulty.
>
> Anyhow, this horse has been ridden enough and ready for the barn so, I
> say the conversation has been interesting and will likely lead to
> better days for us both...
>

Well - let us know if you do discover anything down the road - faulty tools,
or whatever.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

>
> Hard lines with hard 90 degree turns will slow flow more so than a
> hose that only has gradual bends.

That is very true, but with a sufficient compressor, it will have enough
capacity to handle that. 90's are commonplace in installations. It does
not have to be a lot of compressor to handle 90's - though there is a loss,
it's not so great as to require a lot more compressor. I have a small 15
gallon Craftsman oilless compressor that I rescued from the scrap pile, and
put a new fan in for $7.00, and a new seal around the tube from the reed
valves to the tank, and it handles my 1/2" hard lines in the garage just
fine. I wouldn't try to run any of my DA's with it, but it will certainly
handle things like an air nailer.

I only hooked it up to my hard lines to test it - it never sees those lines
in normal use.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/16/2013 2:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Hard lines with hard 90 degree turns will slow flow more so than a
>> hose that only has gradual bends.
>
> That is very true, but with a sufficient compressor, it will have enough
> capacity to handle that....

No, if there's too much pressure drop along the way, it doesn't matter
how big the compressor itself is (unless you can raise it's pressure
enough to compensate but until go to really large the upper tank limits
are generally roughly the same).

--

dpb wrote:
> On 2/16/2013 2:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hard lines with hard 90 degree turns will slow flow more so than a
>>> hose that only has gradual bends.
>>
>> That is very true, but with a sufficient compressor, it will have
>> enough capacity to handle that....
>
> No, if there's too much pressure drop along the way, it doesn't matter
> how big the compressor itself is (unless you can raise it's pressure
> enough to compensate but until go to really large the upper tank
> limits are generally roughly the same).

Agreed - I was saying that I doubt that's what is affecting the OP though.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>pressure. My air nailer is always running off of a known length of 3/8"
>hose to a coil of 1/4", or if close enough, simply off of the 1/4" directly
>to the compressor(s). So - pressure drops over long runs never becomes an
>issue for me, and I forget to think about that in conversations like this.
>Good catch John.

Some of the job sites I've seen have had very long runs of hoses for the
nailers simply due to the nature of the work site. Big contemporary homes
with high steep pitched roofs were wrapped in hoses...

I don't recall that the OP mentioned the length of his hoses so I cannot say
if that may be his specific issue. It might be worth consideration if the
compressor's regulator says he has enough pressure but he is still having
problems.

Some tools are sensitive to lubrication also. I've got one nailer that has
to be oiled every time (day) I use it regardless of how much actual nailing
was done after the last time it was oiled or it doesn't function reliably.

John

On 2/15/2013 11:53 AM, chaniarts wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 11:12 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Digger wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> >In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4"
>>> >is often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some
>>> >brands of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least
>>> >3/8" line if the run is more than a few feet.
>>
>>> That's always true of high volume tools like DA's and some paint guns,
>>> but I've never heard that to be true of an air nailer. They're a one
>>> shot tool. I'd be more suspicious of either too low of a pressure
>>> setting, or the thing crapping out as the tank is approaching cut in
>>> pressure level. Maybe people have had problems with air nailers and
>>> small diameter hoses (especially if they are firing in rapid
>>> succession), but intuitively, that would surprise me. Other things
>>> have surprised me in the past...
>>
>> Back when I was regularly using air tools (paint guns, sanders,
>> grinders, impact wrenches, nailers, etc.) we ran off an Ingersoll - Rand
>> industrial compressor that had a large tank and fast recovery rate. The
>> compressor's working capacity was never an issue. What was happening at
>> the other end of the hose was a different story. Like with dust
>> collection, long runs with small diameters can lead to huge drops in
>> working pressure at the tool end...
>>
>> To set the "right" pressure for the tools we had a gauge on quick
>> release fittings that could be installed at the tool end of the line.
>> We'd regulate the pressure to that gauge rather than the gauge on the
>> regulator on the compressor. That allowed us to regulate the working
>> pressure in the context of the length and diameter of the hose. Once set
>> the line gauge could be removed to lighten the tool weight. We had a
>> regulator with a gauge for the spray gun as that often needed tinkering.
>
> i always thought the pressure at one end of the hose has to be the same
> at the other end of the hose, given a static condition. is that not
> correct?

That is correct if there is no air movement. Open the end of that hose
and there is a dramatic loss of pressure it remains open and if the
supply line is not adequate to keep up with the loss. While a nail gun
opens up the end, so to speak, it is for a split second and pressure is
immediately restored, so to speak.

On 2/14/2013 1:06 PM, Digger wrote:
> On 2/14/2013 11:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/14/2013 10:47 AM, Digger wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2013 10:30 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>>>> Putting up hundreds of feet of MDF trim. (1/2" casings, baseboards
>>>> etc.) Using 2" finish nails in the gun. Only about one in nine
>>>> nails sets below the surface. Pain in the ass to bend and set nails
>>>> at odd angles, even though I can swing a hammer with either hand.
>>>>
>>>> Gun pressure set to 90 psi. Any suggestions? Buy a better gun?
>>>> Would lubricating the nails help. BTW, the nail heads are proud by
>>>> about 1/32".
>>>>
>>>> All advise appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Ivan Vegvary
>>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to other suggestions, I would check size of airline. 1/4" is
>>> often not large enough to deliver enough volume of air for some brands
>>> of air tools to function properly. I typically use at least 3/8" line if
>>> the run is more than a few feet.
>>>
>>
>>
>> What brand nailer do you need this with? I have used 150', 1/4" with a
>> Senco finish nailer and a Bostitch framer with no problems. These
>> things don't use much air. You may not be able to shoot as fast on this
>> long run but 2 shots per second is fast enough for me when fence building.
>>
>
> Not trying to start a war here folks, just offered a simple thought and
> suggestion.
>
> I have 3 different brands of guns onhand and a compressor limited to max
> 125lbs. I've not used Senco but understand it is an industry standard
> brand and have no idea what is recommended by the OEM.
>
> I've had good luck with Dewalts and Bostitch using 1/4", even at 85-90,
> but not so my very old Campbell Hausfields when fed from 1/4" line,
> unless kept to short runs. Soft 3/4" pine is one thing, MDF is another
> and 2" treated is another and Oak and... Even the style of nail being
> shot (coated vs uncoated, etc) can have an effect upon depth of
> penetration at a given combination of adjustments.
>
> I have also found 1/4" line totally inadequate for tasks such as paint
> guns, air hammers, impact wrenches, sanders, metal saws and files. And
> so, regardless of anyone's law of physics, many supply issues of my own
> experience were permenantely solved with 3/8" line and a larger volume tank.
>
> The original op did not specify air source being used nor much else
> except MDF, 2" nails and a Senco gun @ 90lbs. Others had already offered
> good advice and I simply offered a suggestion, not a declaration.
>
>
No war intended. :~) I was indeed curious what gun would require that
large of a hose. I have been on and worked on a bunch of job sites with
nailers working on 1/4" hose.

From what I understand Senco invented the nail gun. It apparently is
not the gun of choice these days. My Senco nailer was apparently the
gun of choice in 1989 when I bought it.

FWIW I have used that nail gun with a portable 7 gal air tank and
25',1/4" hose to shoot 10~15 times in quarter round in a house with no
electricity. Strange job. I made sure the hose was full before going
to the job.

Continuous use tools like those you mentioned above do need less
restriction for longer runs to operate more efficiently but if the hose
is 50' or shorter the 1/4" still worked fine in the automotive business
that I was in for 20+ years. The 1/4" hose was mainly used for air
drills, impact wrenches, air ratchets, zip guns, and in the body shop
for painting and sanding. Now the Coats tire machine did have a 3/8"
supply line as the bead expander would release enough air to inflate a a
tire in a split second. That machine however did have it's own air
reservoir, not even the 3/8" supply could keep it filled for more than
several seconds if the bead expander was in continuous use on the
difficult tires.

On 2/16/2013 9:09 AM, Leon wrote:
> As I mentioned to Mike, hard runs with hard 90 degree turns will restrict
> air flow more than a gradual smooth bend in a hose. Before suspecting the
> gun I would bypass the pipe, go directly from the compressor to the gun via
> a long 1/4" hose. If you have several hard bends in your setup you could
> be dramatically restricting flow.

Might be like that Rockler "non-kink" air hose I bought ... it only
kinks when in use (under pressure). :(

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)